Mr. Bill - Ableton Tutorial 73 - Automatic Hocket Machine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- In this tutorial I show you how you can randomly switch between signals from multiple channels to create a pretty impressive hocket effect using the audition-button & the sidechain inputs on Ableton's native compressor.
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And check out the original tutorial Hullabaloo did here: • Hullabalo0 Tutorial 5 ...
I like how you just casually drop in the trick with routing the midi from the sub like it's no big deal. I can't believe how much time I've wasted copying changes over to other tracks before changing my mind and having to turn it all back, definitely gonna start using this method now
which minute ?
@@JBGSD 8:00
same lol
RIGHT!?
Wow I am so fucking happy right now, I taught Hullabaloo this technique (channel switching with compressors' sidechain listen) that he developed further and then inspired Mr. Bill to make this... to indirectly contribute a production technique to the man who inspired me to learn Ableton Live in the first place is truly special. Very much love, and thanks to my mentor Will Kreiser for teaching me the compressor-listening-as-track-routing technique in the first place
Hell yeah dude!!
Why use the compressor's sidechain though? Why not just layer instruments as normal and then switch between chains?
@@Locrian1 you can automate the switching without having to click instruments/tracks on+off manually
@@Locrian1 nah, its because when using MIDI Channels with this (rather than audio where this technique is effectively just multitrack comping), chain switching doesn't immediately cut over to other chains, it lets each previous MIDI note ring out... which is also a cool effect itself, just not the purpose of this technique
Ya bud!
This is absolutely brilliant. Maybe one of the most clever things I’ve ever seen for music production.
Real quick though, let me help you out with breaking down the ranges real quick. 0-127 is chosen as a range size because it’s 2^7 different values, which is nice for computers. So, because 0 is included, you have 128 values. For 8 chains, that breaks down to exactly 16 values per chain. So you’ll want to do 0-15, 16-31, 32-47, 48-63, 64-79, 80-95, 96-111, and 112-127.
NERD
forreal though thanks for breaking that down
Nice tutorial! You can also do this on a single track with a single MIDI clip. On a MIDI track, load up your synth. Group it into an instrument rack, then add however many additional instances of a synth (or simpler, sampler, etc) you want. Then go to the velocity chain and distribute ranges equally. Now different velocities trigger the different synths. You can insert the velocity MIDI device before it for random, or just adjust the velocities of the notes until you hear something you like. You lose some flexibility with velocity-sensitive patches, but for most things (bass patches are a good example) it doesn't matter.
You won't get the choked off effect that way tho... But thats useful for other things where maybe all your sounds have really short releases and no verb anyways.
@Taylor - This works well too! Thanks Saved both ways :)
This tutorial showed me how to have fun making music again. I love everything about your channel!
Learning the terms for this shit has helped me articulate a lot with production now a days, thanks Mr. Bill
This is the best video ever
you could also automate the macro with a lfo (from max) and set it to random
ye but it wouldn't have an unique synth for each note, it would just be totally random changing while playing notes.
This is a very interesting method of achieving hocket. Another approach I use is by using midi gaters that take midi signal from a drum rack and then you can do both hocket and layering that way. I'm also working on a max for live device that will handle all of this for you.
there's PolyMind patch out there, but It's not very convenient and only allows one source and 16 destinations per project
Damn this is like one of the most interesting tutorials I have watched in ages, inspired ASF rn
Actually you could have just devided 128 by 8. Zero is also a value so you got a total of 128 Values.
0 - 15
16 - 31
32 - 47
48 - 63
64 - 79
80 - 95
96 - 111
112 - 127
And there were only 7 chains so that would've helped :D
it's funny how i just rewatched the old tutorial where just manually clicked thru presets to get glitchy sounds. This is really next level mode, great stuff mr bill!!!
manolito onsoundcloud its the method Mr. Bill said Circuit Bent showed him right? I love it, it’s so quick and effective working with just audio sometimes. This method from Hullabaloo is dope too tho.
Give us the tipper patches and no one gets hurt 🔫😓💣
quite possibly the best intro ever.
This is one of the best tutorials like ever. I have watched about a half dozen times, sold me on becoming a hardcore abeltoneer!
"and girls - it's 2019"
yeh we out here
It's the current year!
@@02camry_ yea we is!
And non-binaries! 😂
Girls be like the Mr. Bill auto hocket machiene. Switching real fast...
THAT'S HOW THEY FUCKING DID IT? I always wondered how artists used these hyper transitions! Fucking awesome man.
this was awesome. never tried using hocket in my songs but want to now. also, that insight about switching several channels to "in" so they all receive the same midi is something i havent seen before but looks really useful. thanks for all this
came back to this after a couple years and just realized you gave a shout out to tipper, and right at the start i'm like hmm sounds like some tipper sounds
You could do all of this with one instrument rack using one MIDI clip and just switching the chains, without using sub channels etc. You don't need to put a compressor in side chain mode and do the routing, the chains can select between the different synths. Also, you can actually right click in the chains and select distribute chains equally and it will do the math for you. ;). You will have to pull out the chains first though before the distribute equally will work. Anyway, hope this helps speed up your workflow even more...
Ken Porter @mr bill comments on this way?
SwedishSurfer not the most efficient way. Mr. Bill is one of the fastest users I’ve seen in Live, which is why I made a comment that there is a much more efficient way to accomplish this.
You could create an instrument rack on one track that has the midi clip. Drag serum into the rack, and another underneath and so on, all on one track, to create as many chains as you want to. Then click on the chain button and drag out all chains from 1-127. Then right click and select distribute equally and boom. Then map the chain selector to a macro and you can use whatever, even a LFO with a random waveform to change the macro knob.
There was nothing wrong at all with what Mr. Bill has shown and a lot of the things he touched on. My comment was that it can be done more efficiently. As I said he’s the fastest user I’ve seen, which is why I was trying to help. That is all.
@@kenporter6059 doesn't work due to the release portion of the sound not getting muted when switching to another chain. You gotta macro the chain mutes, but yeah you could do it that way for sure :)
I was thinking about the instrument track too but there's also the sidechain gate approach which solves the release issue and allows for some cool live stuff th-cam.com/video/hCoWqJtt3fg/w-d-xo.html
@@MrBillsTunes strange, it seems to be working here. Made a little video in case you care. :) And as a side note, love your stuff, especially the Electrocado stuff. Here's the link if you want to bother watching: www.dropbox.com/s/kvf4koifty8ex8q/Live%20Chains.mov?dl=0
Neat, I know what a Hocket Machine is now.
1:53 Thank you Bill for showing me this trick and girls
Damn! That's awesome. I use side-chain inputs on SO many things, but I've never used it like this.
Also thought I'd mention: the reason the chain selector trick doesn't work because it mutes/unmutes audio inputs into the chain. Those compressors are all placed after the input, so that mute has no effect on them.
nice tip!- gonna try this. The VSTi "Rounds" by NI allows for a synth-per-voice architecture that can be programmed to have a similar result to what you are describing. Also, in Serum, assigning velocity or "note-on random" to wave-table position (or any other parameter that changes the sound significantly- i.e. "morph") can result is similar hocket madness. I whole-hearted agree with your embracing of the random: bounce then find you favorite resulting edits.
Legendary. You're one of the top 5 smartest dudes in the elec. music DAW game, fam. Big ups!
Who're the other 4?
IMO: Ben Encanti, Dave Tipper, Robert Henke, the three-headed beast that is Noisia.
Edit: and there's so many other great people, not trying to start a competition or flame war, just love these guys.
@@dcurry7287 Honestly a decent response... Add Richard Devine & Au5 to that & I reckon you've got yourself a dream-team
Mang how did I forget them? Y'all gotta get matching jerseys now.
To add to this list as far as tutorials are concerned, I would like to add Ned Rush. his ableton tutorials are killer.
Damn dude...This is the ultimate time saver. So freaking cool! I love the randomness technique too, Definitely brings a new life to the music.
Pretty cool, but there is actually no need to do most of this. Simply create an instrument rack and you have your chain selector and only one midi region! :)
OMG I've been trying to figure out how to do this like two years. Didn't know it's called "hocketing" which would have naturally helped a bit googling it :D Thank's a million and thanks for the great podcast channel as well!
Check out Tom Cosm's - Leakage device, if this interests you :) th-cam.com/video/rhhEbgOuo2k/w-d-xo.html
@@MrBillsTunes JESUS :O You're literally changing my life here man, Cheers! :)
tried it with audio.. works very nice, all I had to do was to make a midi channel and dun a midi clip with a c1 to c2 legato notes and use that for triggering instead.. added the arpeggiator then the velocity and the same is rest.. but worked out very nice thanks!!
Lmao “heh, come on the channel” fuckin love Mr Bill
so interesting to find out ive been doing this all along manually and it has a name and even a better method wow
A hocketing technique is child's play in Bitwig, requiring no adaptive workaround routing like you're doing here in Ableton. In Bitwig, you can do instantaneous switching among channels ("layers" in Bitwig)--and automate it or modulate the switching--by using the "Instrument Selector" and "FX Selector" devices. So: one Instrument track with one MIDI clip. An "Instrument Selector" (or "FX Selector") device down in the Devices panel. Set up all your synth presets (or whatever) on the different layers in the Selector device. Then use a modulator or automation lane to change the index value in the Selector device. One and Done. ^.^
BTW a unique advantage of layer switching in a Selector device is that the processing tails will ring out fully from the layer you just switched out of. They're not suddenly choked by the switch like would happen in Ableton if you automated a group's chain selector to achieve a similar hocketing effect.
BTW not saying any of this to ding on Ableton--it's a great DAW. Just pointing out that Bitwig (which is very similar to Ableton in many ways) has quite a few first-class methods of dealing with things that Ableton is weaker at.
Sick! Make a video :)
@@MrBillsTunes Done! th-cam.com/video/Bk5JCrZk774/w-d-xo.html
Great video! Didnt know about that expression plug in, it was i was looking for! Thanks!!
Another way to do this is grouping all your vst, distribute them in the chain and them map the chain selector to a macro.
Also, the method i just described would save you CPU, as every vst is not playing at the same time.
Forgot to mention the midi bus channel is a great idea!
Mind bending and completely creative as always. Of course it will take me a day to set up and understand. But damn, so cool.
Why wouldn’t you directly add serums to chains instead of using a compressor since you are using another track for midi? You could have two tracks only instead of a whole bunch. Chains remains but you don’t need the compressor routing since your serums are on the chain itself
I love this! I do Hocket all of the time and this will definitely speed up my workflow and add more randomness to my selection process. Cheers, Bill...Nice one!
actually this is the best idea for switching sound when you performing live too. thanks mr.Bill
IMHO the chain selector would be better for that. With Bill's hocket method, all the sounds are being triggered, taking up CPU power, whereas with the chain selector, only the selected chain is triggered.
@@DjangoFlaherty i get it. but i mean is the live performance with already written midi notes. like Justice live set
This is pure programming. Awesome
I would just place all Serums as chains in a single group using an Ableton instrument rack. With this I would not need the compressor trick and safe tracks /lanes in my arrangement
This comment is a bit late, but I thought I should share a thought. I believe you can change the range of values for macros, so instead of calculating sub-ranges from 0-127 and allocating them for each instrument you could set the range to 0-6 and have a smaller, more precise automation grid.
I did a similar thing for a uni assignment a few years ago, but just using an instrument rack with a chain selector instead of routing it through compressors
havent done it in a while but one time i put all the different basses in a rack and split the basses on velocity so i could choose which bass depending on the velocity, i felt this was easier to switch around with different patterns of the basses.
Mr. Bill, you genius. Thanks for saving me from PewDiePie's wormhole.
this way is good for cutting style hocket, but not when you want each layer to fully play it's own note. When you don't cut the notes and distribute them between layers, some more interesting things become possible. For instance you use same synth/patch on each layer, but assign some randomized modulation maybe on same parameter, maybe on different, and perhaps make this modulation kick in on release. Creates interesting effect, as if something is chasing the notes, ripping them off selectively and mangling them in the background.
I would strongly suggest checking out Bitwig, it's super easy to setup various ways to do the hocket there. Many other things mentioned in your tutorials is much easier to do there too.
Super clever and inspiring! Can't wait to play around with this idea, perfect for that distinctive glitch vibe. Thanks!
Awesome trick! I’ll definitely check out what weird ideas I can get by using it.
You can sidestep the whole compressor process and just create an audio/instrument rack. Does the same thing.
do a tutorial then, please
probly been said already, especially if you're using the same midi input, but you could just use an instrument rack for each serum/softsynth instance and do the same macro routing with the speaker on. haven't tested it but i imagine it would have a lower cpu load than each chain having an instance of a compressor
and depending on how each softsynth patch is working, you could really lower the cpu load by routing each chain's softsynth "on" button to the macro such that only one softsynth instance would be turned on at a time, however you might encounter some issues that way
Mr Bill is breathing some rare air up there
Cool idea. Reminds me of something I've been doing with Instrument Racks to switch between Serum patches, but I can imagine this approach having some nice benefits in some cases.
Hey, just wanna let you know that the Chain Selector can work if you apply a small fade-in / fade-out in each chain! It's not a "choke" but it does the trick and saves you a lot of time with the whole "Speaker On" mapping part :-) Cheers!
So I do the same thing but I take long form samples of equal length from different flattened articulations of a number of similar sounding synths (for consistency), throw those renders into a Sampler, play one note on the sampler for the duration, and then use the LFO M4L tool attached to the chain selecta to get hocket. Then, you can render it over and over with different effects and feed it back into itself since its the same length.
This is very cool. BUT it’s way more complex to build than your first older workflow of doing this. After doing all the work this could be saved as a device and simply going forward. Love the randomness idea. I randomize as much as possible. controlled chaos.
This is genius! And so fun to play with! Thank you Mr.bill!
There’s a tool called Ultraloop by twisted tools for Reaktor by Native Instruments. It is based on the same concept but it shuffles around with audio files!
This is cool too!!
Godtier beat posting. Thanks mr Bill
Damn, this dude is OP
I must be dense-why not just have one midi track and all the instruments in individual chains and then distribute ranges equally and then automate the chain selector?
you can totally do that but it wont chop over immediately to other chains, MIDI notes will ring out similarly to changing parameters on the "Pitch" MIDI Effect, it'll only effect the next played notes. Still cool but way less control over switching
@@bearsleethere6996 I know this is an old comment but couldn't you put them all in the same choke group to avoid this behaviour?
That's a fun trick. Thanks Bill, you the man 💪
Omg I dont use Ableton Live but this just blew me away!
Thanks guy. Kinda makes me think about makin a max patch to replace this whole hacky workaround
I feel like Tom's already done this
That’s cool man - great tutorial with loads in there to explore 👍
Max for live also has a LFO tool that you can put on 'Random Mode' and map it to the macro.
even mr bill has to flex that he got the tipper patches nice dude
Nice. Thanks I’ll have to remember this trick.
Thank you! Been trying to come up with a solution like this for too long 🙌🏽
‘Come on the channel!hahaha’ *mr bill happiness noise*
really nice one, let's do it
128/8 is 16. 0 is considered a value and and midi is 7bit which can store 128 discrete values :)
sounds awesome btw
holy crap, ima try it with Patcher on FL
This is an excellent tip, but also you can use midi program change, requires less setup.
cool and thank you :) I usually dont have the patience so i sample my beeps and bleeps, make them monophonic (on pad) and then toggle them around (i use an mpc) BTW i love your sample packs :)
(im not a proffessional musician, just a hobby)
Next Level.
such a great tutorial! gives me so many ideas!!!!!!
Genius!
awesome work around! super creative
Nice trick mate”
dope tutorial as always
oh baby a studio cam
Ur my Guru.
"Hocket" terms come from latin word "hoquetus".
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoquet_(musique)
In classical music it's called Klangfarbenmelodie (ou "mélodie de timbres" en français).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klangfarbenmelodie
this is fucking awesome
You can randomize the Macro with Max Lfo. Just use "Random" wave instead of "Sine Wave" and you don't need to write down Midi´s for that and it will work for Audio tracks as well.
Tried this, but you loose control over the rhythm that your MIDI notes are playing
Thanks!
I believe there should be a much easier way to do it. I’ll let you know if I’ll find one.
Have you tried using instrument rack instead of using the compressor to solo each channel? I does the same like the effect rack but for VST-s and other instruments. Drop in the sounds and set different value for them in the selector window after that you could automate the selector current value with anything you like.
What an awesome tutorial!! cheers!!
Much appreciated tip , thanks man 👊👌🙏
7:17 hahahaha
Had to do it xD
Absolutely awesome tutorial, as usual :) Hey, would you consider making a guide for creating safe mixes with mid-range gear (like when using small monitors with no sub speaker and/or headphones)?
consider buying one of his "seasons" on his website where he goes through making a whole song step by step from scratch
He throws out tons of really good mixing/mastering tips that im sure you could find useful
u gotta be so creative to com up wth this
Or you can just create a midi-track, add instrument rack and load it with bunch of sounds, create midi-part for that track and then automate chain selector. Or if you want to make randomness, simply put an LFO max device on this track, map it to chain selector and set it to random settings.
Awesome bro, follow your tips always!!! 😍😍😍
Thank you so much! This saves so much time :)
Dope ! Thank you for sharing!!
High quality tutorial^^
Yo this is SICK 🔥
This is brilliant!
That's really interesting but what is the difference with using an instrument rack with all the serums inside? (Instead of using alot of tracks and a compressor)🤔
you are able to automate them easily but idk
This is great but I don't understand the need for the compressor with sidechain monitoring? Surely if all the instruments are layered, then they are already outputting to the group? I'll test it there and see........edit..... As expected, there's no need for a compressor, or for automating mutes; once you keep all instruments in a rack then the chain selector can be automated.
You can do all of this in one midi channel by grouping the intruments and adding the macro there... am I missing something?
Yeah I don't understand the need for the compressors at all hahaha, seems like an unnecessary CPU hit (no matter how small). I guess having all your instruments immediately in the arrangement view would be the only advantage, but to me it's much cleaner to just do one instrument rack with everything.