as a trans person who's known for years without actually tangibly transitioning in any meaningful way, this movie was a painful reflection of myself in the worst most unflattering way possible... and so i found it really difficult to focus and pick up on most of the other themes and story elements even on a second watch. so i'm really happy to hear yall's discussion of it outside of the trans allegory without being weird about it like most of the reviews by cis people ive seen. i loved hearing yall's takes, tand i feel like i have a better understanding of the film now. thanks for doing what you do!
23:39 fun fact: the high school that they used was the producers' high school, verona high. jane schoenbrun actually wanted to name the school something else, but they didnt have the budget to change all the "vhs" stuff in the school, so she looked up "nouns that start with v" to try and figure out a name. at the time, it hadnt occurred to them that they could've used a name for the high school, like "veronica high". they were not particularly happy about the name. i am 9 minutes into the director commentary and as soon as they brought it up i had to come back to this video lol
thank you for providing a piece of trans commentary on this movie. if i have to read another cis person paving over the trans experience by abstracting this experience to "queerness" or "identity" im gonna put my head through a fuckin tv. id much rather cis people hate this movie than talk about it the way some of positive reviews are. the point that maddie may have been owen's imagination in the second act was really interesting. i hadn't considered that, but that reading really resonates with the horrific theme of despair and lack of autonomy in competition. i found that i really related to owen's experience (with regards to repression), and the desire for someone to reach out and force me to transition was extremely real. i think this reading is especially compelling because once i realized i could do it myself, all of my insecurity and repression faded rapidly. if owen had transitioned just because maddie told them to, it would not have been a very responsible telling of the trans experience. instead the movie shows you that you have to make that decision yourself, and the longer you wait, the more horrifying that moment will be, let alone that you threw away years or decades of your life.
As a twenty-nine year old egg, this movie fucking HIT. It grabbed me by the collar to the point that I can’t really concieve of a critique of it, so this was cool to watch.
@@markbisson6166 An "egg" is a trans person who has yet to come to terms with being trans. The movie is (explicitly, according to Schoenbrun) about the "egg cracking", when a trans person realises that they do not match their assigned gender.
One of my fav details in this film is when you see the death of the characters in the TV Show, Maddys character Tara is shot with the same resolution as the tv show with the black bars to show her character had died. However Isobel/Owens is shot in the films normal resolution to imply the death of her true self is very very real.
Sorry, double comment! I also noticed when Maddie draws the tattoo on his neck, it read as very romantic to me. Maddie even sleeps next to Owen, after saying she likes girls. And it rips me apart.
When I was watching the tattoo on the neck, and the way it lingered it felt like there was attraction there, and the way it lingered before Owen would scrub it off and run to his former friends house gave me the feeling of unwanted predatory touching personally. Like scrubbing away some of your sense of self or putting something on you that you are not ready for. Idk. Just my thoughts.
"Dont look up what the teen girl that adopted you in highschool is up to now" is so funny. I had this fujoshi classmate who always swooned about me and my male best friend at the time making out (was never even close to happening), i wonder if shes transmasc now, she always kinda had that tboy swag...
My difficulty with these kinds of videos is that like, we queer people are only going to be the ones who ever get to interact with queer text in good INSIDER faith. Like on a level cis people get to engage with these movies as queer tourism and publish glowing 'a triumph!' reviews, but I always wind up feeling a bit bummed out because when I read actual queer input on these, I can feel the tension in the discussion of 'are we being too nice to media produced by people like us', and that in turn makes me listen for that tension in queer crit. I always become suspicious of these reviews because i feel like I'M now not listening to the critique in good faith and i'm trying to pre-emptively shield myself from those darn blasted Film Critters Telling Me My Interaction With The Movie Was Ontologically Wrong!! Grr!! Like this is a good review, and a good discussion, but i'm sitting here doing analysis on the analysis. oh hey let me just post a reply to my own reply real quick: 🙄
On the topic of Hackers, have yall see a 4k copy of that movie? I love it and have been watching it since i was young but never saw it in theaters, i was blown away by the detail of some of the "inside the computer" imagery(turns out it was all model work they filmed so there's a ton of detail in there), as well as the overall world they made. There is SO MUCH going on in the background of this 90's cyber punk NYC. Highly recommend checking it out. (and yes, I have like 3 versions of that movie)
My read on the re-emergence of Maddy/Tara is that she, who was way more introspective and contemplative of her own sexuality/gender identity, is that she tries to convince Owen to be true to himself and to brave what being true to oneself entails instead of sleepwalking through life.
My experience watching this four times in the theater: First time: loved the ambiguity, felt deflated by the bar scene as it felt like it just collapsed all the possible interpretations down to one, watched the rest of the movie in vague curiosity, was startled by the ending Second time: Noticed more Easter eggs, caught lines of dialogue I missed the first time, was kind of bored throughout the middle, still dreaded the ending Third time: Tried to see it through the trans lens, saw Owen as more of a trans woman, but general mellowing of my emotions throughout Fourth time: Biggest crowd, didn't have much new experience, tried to at least focus more on the flashbacks to Owen trying on the dress Ultimately, I think I may be tiring of it, but I do think it's a good thought-provoking film. I just wish there was more of an openness to interpretation without feeling like I'm encroaching on the trans metaphor.
hi love the chat. i wont to like the movie its well made and has a good sound and vibe but... just having a hard time getting past the "end yourself to become a cis in the real world" message. well that's how i interpreted it.
I think I interpreted the film as a whole on a much more metaphorical level - what I took from that piece of it (suffering or death involved in entering the “real world”) was the pain and risk involved with acknowledging to yourself that you are trans, and actually beginning to transition. I am a trans man who transitioned in my mid twenties, and it was like I had everything on mute until I finally admitted to myself what I wanted and the pain of those first few months was like nothing else. Like I hadn’t been allowing myself to fully engage with that grief or dysphoria before because I worked so hard to repress it to be “normal”. Ultimately that pain gave way to joy and a life I am so happy to be living now, but there’s no denying that “the scary is part of it” as Maddie says in the film. Thanks for sharing your thoughts - always good to see people’s interpretations of this movie.
![[UNCUT] บอสพอล แผลงฤทธิ์ บอสพระ-นักร้อง ก. โดนแฉยับ! I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 21 ต.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XKf6HeftoPI/mqdefault.jpg)
This movie made me so so grateful that I made that leap and started medically transitioning
as a trans person who's known for years without actually tangibly transitioning in any meaningful way, this movie was a painful reflection of myself in the worst most unflattering way possible... and so i found it really difficult to focus and pick up on most of the other themes and story elements even on a second watch. so i'm really happy to hear yall's discussion of it outside of the trans allegory without being weird about it like most of the reviews by cis people ive seen. i loved hearing yall's takes, tand i feel like i have a better understanding of the film now.
thanks for doing what you do!
23:39 fun fact: the high school that they used was the producers' high school, verona high. jane schoenbrun actually wanted to name the school something else, but they didnt have the budget to change all the "vhs" stuff in the school, so she looked up "nouns that start with v" to try and figure out a name. at the time, it hadnt occurred to them that they could've used a name for the high school, like "veronica high". they were not particularly happy about the name.
i am 9 minutes into the director commentary and as soon as they brought it up i had to come back to this video lol
thank you for providing a piece of trans commentary on this movie. if i have to read another cis person paving over the trans experience by abstracting this experience to "queerness" or "identity" im gonna put my head through a fuckin tv. id much rather cis people hate this movie than talk about it the way some of positive reviews are.
the point that maddie may have been owen's imagination in the second act was really interesting. i hadn't considered that, but that reading really resonates with the horrific theme of despair and lack of autonomy in competition. i found that i really related to owen's experience (with regards to repression), and the desire for someone to reach out and force me to transition was extremely real. i think this reading is especially compelling because once i realized i could do it myself, all of my insecurity and repression faded rapidly. if owen had transitioned just because maddie told them to, it would not have been a very responsible telling of the trans experience. instead the movie shows you that you have to make that decision yourself, and the longer you wait, the more horrifying that moment will be, let alone that you threw away years or decades of your life.
As a twenty-nine year old egg, this movie fucking HIT. It grabbed me by the collar to the point that I can’t really concieve of a critique of it, so this was cool to watch.
Completely agree, although I have no idea what an “egg” is
@@markbisson6166 An egg is a trans person who has yet to realize/acknowledge that they're trans.
@@markbisson6166 An "egg" is a trans person who has yet to come to terms with being trans. The movie is (explicitly, according to Schoenbrun) about the "egg cracking", when a trans person realises that they do not match their assigned gender.
One of my fav details in this film is when you see the death of the characters in the TV Show, Maddys character Tara is shot with the same resolution as the tv show with the black bars to show her character had died. However Isobel/Owens is shot in the films normal resolution to imply the death of her true self is very very real.
Sorry, double comment! I also noticed when Maddie draws the tattoo on his neck, it read as very romantic to me. Maddie even sleeps next to Owen, after saying she likes girls. And it rips me apart.
Yeah looks like she was kind of biting her lip when Owen came out in a dress too
When I was watching the tattoo on the neck, and the way it lingered it felt like there was attraction there, and the way it lingered before Owen would scrub it off and run to his former friends house gave me the feeling of unwanted predatory touching personally. Like scrubbing away some of your sense of self or putting something on you that you are not ready for. Idk. Just my thoughts.
"Dont look up what the teen girl that adopted you in highschool is up to now" is so funny.
I had this fujoshi classmate who always swooned about me and my male best friend at the time making out (was never even close to happening), i wonder if shes transmasc now, she always kinda had that tboy swag...
My difficulty with these kinds of videos is that like, we queer people are only going to be the ones who ever get to interact with queer text in good INSIDER faith. Like on a level cis people get to engage with these movies as queer tourism and publish glowing 'a triumph!' reviews, but I always wind up feeling a bit bummed out because when I read actual queer input on these, I can feel the tension in the discussion of 'are we being too nice to media produced by people like us', and that in turn makes me listen for that tension in queer crit. I always become suspicious of these reviews because i feel like I'M now not listening to the critique in good faith and i'm trying to pre-emptively shield myself from those darn blasted Film Critters Telling Me My Interaction With The Movie Was Ontologically Wrong!! Grr!! Like this is a good review, and a good discussion, but i'm sitting here doing analysis on the analysis.
oh hey let me just post a reply to my own reply real quick: 🙄
Honestly developing your own knowledge in critical theory and analysing yourself might help
Woah cool intro. Film critters in space
I also think Owen’s experience is a good allegory for the autistic experience. I feel like both Maddie and Owen are autistic
fr. as a trans autist the movie broke me on SO many levels
On the topic of Hackers, have yall see a 4k copy of that movie? I love it and have been watching it since i was young but never saw it in theaters, i was blown away by the detail of some of the "inside the computer" imagery(turns out it was all model work they filmed so there's a ton of detail in there), as well as the overall world they made. There is SO MUCH going on in the background of this 90's cyber punk NYC. Highly recommend checking it out. (and yes, I have like 3 versions of that movie)
My read on the re-emergence of Maddy/Tara is that she, who was way more introspective and contemplative of her own sexuality/gender identity, is that she tries to convince Owen to be true to himself and to brave what being true to oneself entails instead of sleepwalking through life.
My experience watching this four times in the theater:
First time: loved the ambiguity, felt deflated by the bar scene as it felt like it just collapsed all the possible interpretations down to one, watched the rest of the movie in vague curiosity, was startled by the ending
Second time: Noticed more Easter eggs, caught lines of dialogue I missed the first time, was kind of bored throughout the middle, still dreaded the ending
Third time: Tried to see it through the trans lens, saw Owen as more of a trans woman, but general mellowing of my emotions throughout
Fourth time: Biggest crowd, didn't have much new experience, tried to at least focus more on the flashbacks to Owen trying on the dress
Ultimately, I think I may be tiring of it, but I do think it's a good thought-provoking film. I just wish there was more of an openness to interpretation without feeling like I'm encroaching on the trans metaphor.
Glad someone else thought of the FF7 house
My girlfriend brought up the dimensional merge lmao
Making a movie, album, or art exhibition of some kind should be a requirement of medically transitioning
. is TV glow. just the matrix tho
Not really… did you watch the film?
hi love the chat. i wont to like the movie its well made and has a good sound and vibe but...
just having a hard time getting past the "end yourself to become a cis in the real world" message. well that's how i interpreted it.
I think I interpreted the film as a whole on a much more metaphorical level - what I took from that piece of it (suffering or death involved in entering the “real world”) was the pain and risk involved with acknowledging to yourself that you are trans, and actually beginning to transition. I am a trans man who transitioned in my mid twenties, and it was like I had everything on mute until I finally admitted to myself what I wanted and the pain of those first few months was like nothing else. Like I hadn’t been allowing myself to fully engage with that grief or dysphoria before because I worked so hard to repress it to be “normal”. Ultimately that pain gave way to joy and a life I am so happy to be living now, but there’s no denying that “the scary is part of it” as Maddie says in the film.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - always good to see people’s interpretations of this movie.
@@levil.2734 i'm glad you didn't go to the pink opaque. The world is much more interesting with you in it.