Except they have. Bits and pieces. For example the giants are confirmed by Legends Arceus and the Sinnoh games. This "scrapped" ideas is literally just what was in game, but extended and given more context.
I really hope we get more information about the giants in a future game. So much lore potential and if things were most likely changed, maybe they could make it that some of them were alive in some weakened state. All the other stuff definitely seems scrapped I agree. Maybe there were 18 giants, one to represent each type and one for each plate’s power
I feel like those giants are wayyyy stronger than anything we've seen before like stronger than any legendary or other pokemon well arceus stronger yeahhh but prob a game past of arceus?
@@miguelflores1876 The years-old theory is that the Giants are the Original Dragon Kyurem, Complete Zygarde, Ultra Necrozma, Eternamax Eternatus, and Stellar Terapagos Each new Dex there was always a brand new super OP mon that had Arceus-like stats and special powers similar to the previous one, and they got added to the list with every new Gen
6:27 Woah so basically humans are decendants of palkia and pokemon are descendants of dialga.... As crazy of a story this is... This still tells a cohesive story when looked at theologically... This is really cool lore and a lot makes sense with what we do know and can probably imply with design choices and actions, thank you for this story
Still it sucks that lots of stuff got leaked, I genuinely encourage people to be careful online if you don't want to know about things and if you do know stuff don't tell people who don't want to know about the leak stuff.
@@lawznwdscat least what’s been leaked is fir games that’ve already been out, aside from the codename for gen 10 which may or may not even hint at anything judging by the other codenames.
@@THGMR-ox7sd No just be careful, there are tons of leaks relating to Pokemon mostly beta and anime stuff but there are things about Legends Z-A and Gen 10 too.
The story you read was the original draft, the document has 12 more after, each time getting more actualized, like dialga and palkia beeing listed as time and space pokemon as well as tyrnaitar being linked with groudon instead of Rayquaza, gyarados with kyogre and dragonite with rayquaza, in othe story it also says that palkia and dialga didnt had pokemon forms until the human war then the 2 gods create dragon pokemon phisical forms.
Given that the Sinnjoh ruins diagram is the one from the leaks with an additional circle representing Giratina, I reckon that even if this exact version of the lore isn't canon, the pokemon featured in the diagram are probably still linked
I definitely don't think this is still fully canon, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get the giants at some point. And apparently they do consider Pokémon and humans to be sister species to this day, considering other things that have leaked, including what appears to be the full story of the Veilstone sword myth.
IA is actually Dialga, and EA is Palkia. Because IA had something to do with time, and humans are supposed to resemble the mother, and we look more like Palkia than Dialga cuz Palkia is bipedal. Palkia and Dialga are based of on izanagi and izanami, And Izanami is a female with a connection to space. Oh and there’s a official text that basically says that Palkia is EA.
Given that Arceus shares a relationship with the Unown, I've always assumed that the 'vortex of chaos', from which the Cosmic Egg containing Arceus spontaneously appeared, was the Unown, whose collective power created the Cosmic Egg. Arceus hatched from the Egg and harnessed the collective power of the Unown to create the universe, then Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, to embody aspects of the newly created universe (time, space, and anti-matter, respectively). Given that the Pokémon multiverse exists, it's possible that Arceus created, at first, a single universe that branched out into different timelines (overseen by Dialga and Palkia). Arceus as it appears in D/P/Pt/BD/SP is an echo or fragment of the original Arceus (which appears in Legends: Arceus). There is one Unown Dimension that interacts with different timelines, and similarly one Distortion World that serves to balance the multiverse, with Giratina looking out onto different timelines (such as the timeline of Platinum) from the Distortion World. When the Pokémon of Myth are captured by a trainer, Arceus creates copies of the Pokémon of Myth to oversee time, space, and the Distortion World in their place.
The Japanese dialogue uses the term "bunshin" to talk about the Arceus we catch as well as for Palkia, Giratina and Dialga, implying they're all alternate "clones" of Arceus that it can create at will
In judaism, God created the world by speaking. Words have powers and so do letters. Unown are letters with a curious ancient power. I wouldnt be surprised if Unowns were origunally supposed to be the creator of the universe, but turned into the tool to Arceus, the artist. Unowns are the letters writing Pokemons story.
@@ma_cherri this is also mirrored in a Japanese belief about the power of words known as kotodama. I love seeing how different cultures can have such similar ideas
Nothing’s changed, there’s just new context that’s interesting to think about. I’m intrigued by the Pokémon in the big ol’ creation symbol. Like, the support Pokémon specifically. Because they consciously chose pseudolegendaries, but not ALL of them. And fair enough, Salamence is incredibly lame. But also, Gyarados is there. Which makes sense from the perspective of Japanese mythology. But that just makes you wonder if Gyarados is there, are there other “normal” Pokémon that could have a “legendary” aspect to them that could be a support Pokémon in the pantheon? Like how Arcanine’s Pokedex category was the “Legendary Pokémon”? Now that’s interesting.
Yeah this is more recontextualization than a complete change of the lore. The stuff with the giants even somewhat lines up with an existing theory about the origin of the plates and type
@@Shinntoku Another possibility with the giants - Gen 8. Eternatus comes from... Somewhere (we don't know where, all we know is it's not from here). And Eternatus creates giants through its power contaminating other Pokemon, when this happens in unstable "chaotic" conditions they go berserk. We also have the glowy alpha Pokemon in Legends Arceus and the Titans in Paldea, both being giant and berserk as well. The giants could have been Pokemon like Eternatus (not necessarily Mr Hands himself). 17 Eternatus-like giants each embodying a different type that were slain & turned into the plates to quell them. With Eternatus being the child of one of those primordial giants (he did hatch out of a giant egg), with his ancestor being one of the things that were turned into the Poison Plate. Terapagos might be one of them as well since it seems to be responsible for Herba Mystica which also giantizes Pokemon.
In the original gen3 sprite list salamence was listed as a 2 stage line pokemon, bagon was hadded later, so maybe metagross is the og single pesudo of gen3 and salamance originally wasnt imagined in that way
@@jaernihiltheus7817 Eternatus didn't hatch from an egg, that was made up by someone and spread by BirdKeeperTobey. It literally doesn't fit with the canon lore, Eternatus itself would be the Giant (according to the theory). It clearly was a contantment unit that it broke out of, but apparently this people would look at a minivan and claim it was an egg containing humans lol
No bc this stuff goes so hard as in-universe lore. Think the scholars of the Pokémon world arguing over correct translations of ancient texts and whether Giratina is a later addition influenced by another belief system and whatnot, just like we try to make sense of ancient myths in the real world. It's so cool to think about!!
I DO think we’ll see some ideas of this story be the basis/inspiration of future legendaries/mythicals in the future. Like I’m pretty sure the “Tree of Life” was the basis for Gen 6’s lore with their legendaries. Also the Giant Pokemon that came from Arceus’s egg can possibly tie in to Gen 10 of it’s really indeed Greek based cause then they’ll be like Primodials or Titans of Greek Mythos. Singled type Promodial Pokemon would be prettt sweet
Canon is a pointless term in this case. So is saying that it is a scrapped idea. This IS the creation lore of pokemon... as it was in 2005. It has evolved (like pokemon lol) over time. Discounting this completely is absolutely insane. Especially when bits and pieces of this are present in games. Saying this was discarded when they literally still use the triangle template is nuts. It's just a beta version of the lore... THATS what it is: nothing more, nothing less. You wouldn't look at beta Pokémon game and say "This is canon or not canon" That doesn't make sense, its a beta... This is the creation lore as it was in 2005 like I said. What is VERY valuable here is that we have a look into the internal canon of game freak. Because there is DEFINITELY an internal canon that they keep to themselves. So seeing a part of that is so rare and quite honestly awesome!
The point of the video is that some people will take the obviously scrapped and outright contradictory information and take it as if it is fact, and how little it'll make sense when it happens. This information is useless in the discussion of Pokémon's canonical story, but it's interesting in the context of a behind the scenes, "fun fact" kinda deal.
You don’t know that this is the creation lore. It could simply be a work in progress or something that was scrapped and repurposed. Just because it exists doesn’t mean it was finalized and should be considered to be the official lore at any point in time. I do think it’s really interesting and cool to see some of the ideas they were thinking of back then and how it connects to what was settled on and made it out to the games but calling it canon isn’t something that can be verified.
It literally isn't Canon, that's what Beta means lol Only some details stay, a bunch of stuff (most of it) was changed. This is an early draft, you don't just make a single draft and roll with it. You keep refining it, fixing it, cleaning it, until you have the final draft. The FINAL draft is the Canon one, because that's the version you are using for the story of the final product. So no, "Canon" isn't a pointless term in this case. It is straight up NonCanon
Yes, the document predates Giratina, but the canonically stuff we get in the Gen4 titles and Legends Arceus still exclude Giratina in the framework of the universe. That isn't a mistake being made.
@@zeanone9257 It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that IN-universe "it doesn't exists" as in "the plot, stories, myths, and 99% of human population aren't aware of its existance" Yes, Giratina exists in LA, but it wasn't general knowledge unlike say, Dialga and Palkia who even tho people had SOME details wrong the general idea was there
@@zeanone9257 No it doesn't. Not in the cosmology chart. It is the same exact one that is depicted in this leak, that is depicted in the SInjoh Ruins event, and then redepicted in PLA. Giratina is not involved,. At least not on the same level as Dialga and Palkia. It is very possible Giratina would have replaced some other unknown or known Pokemon on that chart, but it would put Giratina at far lesser importance doing that. So yes, Giratina is excluded... and surprise that fits with Giratina lore... of being excluded and forced into the distortion world.
@@jamaldavis2480 do you not know why people don't remember that event because it needed a event exclusive Pokemon and I don't think Pokemon themselves remember that event
Although i do think Palkia is Mother (if you know what i mean), it freaks me out to think legendary Pokemon are conceived as a female/male duo and are not given those designs elements to simply differentiate them from each other.
what ya'll need to remember is that like 90% of the data taken was beta builds, concept art, things not intended to be released cause they never needed to be released. these bits of lore were probably written with the idea of being put in the games but were scrapped for one reason or another and are most likely not cannon
Something interesting to note is how when that triangle symbol finally appeared in a game, they added another circle behind Arceus. Presumably to represent Giratina
This is almost certainly not reliably canon, I agree. But it also doesn't make sense to totally write it off, as you observed: there are elements such as the giants that seem to have survived. Contradictions aren't necessarily a smoking gun to me. What we learn about Pokémon lore is communicated to us through myths and legends passed down through generations. These myths are not always necessarily reliable in themselves. Third version legendaries in particular have a habit of swooping in to recontextualise the other two. Game Freak's writers certainly know more than the characters in the setting. The Pokémon world is deliberately written to be full of mysteries, after all. There's enough that survived from this version of the story that makes me think that some version or redraft of this background remain canon. It's another perspective on things that, much like the legends in the stories, should be taken with a grain of salt without being totally dismissed.
There are certainly elements in the creation myth that we've seen directly in game but this is pretty clearly an early draft and not a 'canon' origin for the pokemon universe like I've seen it spouted as.
The lore has no changed, don't believe the bs of the "Leaked" stuff. It's just horrid and if it's not in the games, it never made the cut, it's not canon, don't buy into it.
Being an alien and being a god are less exclusive than you might think. Metagross could very easily be both, as aliens, angels, demons, and star represented gods often are treated as overlapping things in myths and folklore.
They clearly took some parts from it, like the giant thing made it into the games in the form of information you gotta look for, and the Egg origin made it into a Pokédex entry
the documents were being made during sinnoh development era likely beceause they were trying to expand the lore between devs so they could properly understand how dialga, palkia, arceus, etc would work in the game, just because its old doesnt mean it wasnt used.
If this was never released you should not consider it canon, it could just be scrapped early concepts and ideas. But it's also possible they were planning on releasing it later, after a bit more rework. Alternatively it can just be they are using it as reference point. We don't know. Most of the info is what we already knew, so it does't really change much. Although the part about the blood was interesting. Pokemon have mentioned blood before, but it's never been used in such a graphic manner before.
I head canon that there are different dominations of the pokemon origin lore, similar to christianity. And/or different perspectives of the pokemon origin, like the many different religions/myths in the real world.
The biggest thing for me arguing in favor of an updated version of this story being canon, at least for a while, is the chart we get in HG/SS and PL:A which has been updated to add Giratina into it. I think you’re right that this was a first draft, but I don’t think the final version is too far off from it either for that chart to have made it into the games twice. That said, there’s a chance that some of the pokemon were replaced with some of the Gen 5 legendaries, and the Gen 6 and 7 legendaries tie into the established set of lore really nicely, especially with the concept of the world tree. I don’t think every legend/mythical/Psuedo is tied to this mythology nowadays (think more of smaller myth in the larger pantheon), but your big reality defining gods definitely still fit into this design. I’d actually be curious to see a fan attempt to expand this concept and add in the remaining legendaries/pseudo sin a way that makes lore sense
Giratina isn't even included in this lore, that's how outdated these ideas are. They've certainly changed it at least to some degree by the point they released the games, so I wouldn't worry about the incompatible details too much and just focus on the things we might still learn from it despite them
There seems to be several different drafts of these within the leak I saw one earlier today that does include Giratina as the first shadow that was cast when Arceus was born And on that one Dialga and Palkia are referred to as gods of time and space
I wouldn’t say it’s scrapped because the piece of dialogue from gen 4 about Pokémon and humans sitting at the same table falls completely in line with this.
I'm gonna throw out a bone here and guess that the "giants" that gave origins to the plates might have intended to be the Regis. Sword and Shield call them the "legendary giants" and all of them are monotype pokemon whose concept is literally embodying a certain base element (rock, ice, steel, electricity, draconic energy). They're also all have designs based on the hebrew version golems, being inanimate objects brought to life, and the "giants" were the shell of the egg before being brought to life and attacking Arceus.
They were so close to the link of pseudo-legendaries to their legendary counterparts. Dragonite for the sea, tyranitar for the land, and salamence for the sky makes a lot of sense!
The Giants aren't just from the Book They were there since Gen4's debut and they were mentioned in the Plates themselves. BDSP and LA still have the line about the Giants, so they 100% are still Canon. (They would've taken it out if their current version of the lore retconned out of existence) "The Gods, i guess, not even really that" Wut? They ARE that. The title "God" only means that you hold some kind of special power over something and that you are worshipped as such. They both control Time and Space, and they *are* the source of it, and LA shows that they even were worshipped. They created the PokeEarth. They *ARE* Gods. Also Tyranitar as a God of Sky is the most delulu statement posible... at first glance. Then you remember that it was the ONLY Pokemon that by default had control over the Weather (a phenomenom that relates to the Sky) other than Kyogre and Groudon. Sand Stream was exclusive, any other mon depended on using a Move to do the same.
I don't think I read this creation myth before (I read other scrapped legends that leaked, but I either missed that one or didn't read it properly), and oh wow, uxie, azelf and mesprit represent the eyes, heart and voice? In the typhlosion legend and some other one it's mentioned that they want their eyes, heart, and voice burned in a pyre! Seems like these three things would be seen as a source of vitality in this version of lore, of the spirit or essence of sorts. That's very interesting!
Oh man, the lore is changed forever, it is ruined omg... I didn't know people take unused, scrapped and rejected lore and stories as 100% serious canon. So you're telling me if an employee at GameFreaks wrote down a joke about how a Magikarp vanquished Arceus, it would be so canon to the community, and not at all a joke? No wonder they got hysterical about the stories between Pokemon and Humans. They can't differentiate facts from reality!
With this being said and all this information being revealed, it is merely inspiration and a rough draft for what would become Canon and we can expect past scrapped ideas like this and more to continue seving as inspiration and source material for fute developments in ganes and lore that is Canon.
The part that really made me doubt this being canon, was the idea that the "children of god who resembled [Dialga] were called Pokémon, and the children of god who resembled [Palkia] were called human". Palkia does not look like a human in any way.
While it is funny to imagine that Palkia is the ascendant of human kind because it's the bipedal dragon in the Creation Duo/Trio, you should take the bit about EA and IA being the same thing as Dialga and Palkia with a grain of salt. Those were just added by Pichupedia, they don't exist in the translation of the lore that he reads in the video.
Lets be real this all probably a earlier draft and the only think to get from it is how different it was And the more horrible things from the leak like the trypoltion thing is most definitely (hopefully) just a horrible employe who uses there break time making bad fanfiction and most be buried in the ocean floor
As much as the leaks sucks for the employees, Im glad we got a sneak peak of the concept sketches and writings. It shows what the team was trying to make.
To me it sounds like early concept draft that was changed later in the development of gen 4 and expanded upon in the Legends game. its an early concept at most as have lots on inconsistencies. its interesting tho.
Honestly the origin of Disney classic folktales are way worse, just do a search about the Grimm brothers and their original stories. But folklore translated and watered down for the audience to comprehend and accept later on is the reason why nobody are supposed have stolen confidential documents from GameFreak.
A big thing I keep seeing is people taking it at face value as a finalised and definitive origin of the universe, but it's clearly not that. Allot of the names are likely just placeholders in this draft, especially considering the non-legendaries mentioned like Tyranitar and Gyarados. Not to mention that it's got plenty of details contradicted by later games. As a window into the development of Pokémon, this is 100% a great thing, but should not be taken as hard canon like some people are doing. Last I checked, Metagross wasn't a minor god of the sea. I don't think it even learns water type moves AND HECK! As I was finishing typing this out, the Eon Duo being gods doesn't make sense either given that there's reference to them living in herds in the games (Which is sadly not seen) or shown as being capable of reproducing in the anime (Specifically movie 5 which talks about Latias and Latios' father, another Latios)
While this isn't true to the actual lore of pokemon this might be accurate to the myths and legends that the ancient peoples of sinno remember that statue that was half palkia and half dialga it might have been referencing this myth rather than an actual pokemon
You could have explained it better, there's a lot of misinformation in your comment section, could have said documents like these are meant to be reference to developers and probably got changed later but are never meant to be shown to public.
One interesting part about palkia being related to light, in pmd explorers the original versions versions are called, time and darkness, considering that time is messed up in that game, could that mean palkia was also related? Still doesnt matters much tho since pmd isnt cannon anyways
I don't know man, I think this sounds awesome. The story feels really Biblical, and yet mythological at the same time. EA and IA birthing many children sounds both like how Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply. The weather trio becoming the pillar that holds up the sky, the earth itself, and the veins of water that enompass it brings images of Norse, Greek, Aztec, Buddhist and Shinto myths. Also, I think it's really cool how the gods have been given "names" that consist of simple letters. AUS, IA, EA, RY, HY, AY. It calls to how in many Hebrew texts, God is sometimes referred to as YHVH because His name is too holy to be spoken by mere sinful humans. I think there's a lot of cool things in this story, and that just dismissing it as making no sense doesn't do it justice.
Are you serious? Are we going to act like it is not canon when we do have officially released parts of this creation myth. We just going to act like Pokemon Legends Arceus does not exist? Alright. champ you do you I guess. The only thing that don't make sense is the Psuedo-Legendary and lower Pokemon being considering supporting gods. Everything else literally fits.
There is plenty of more that doesn't fit. Giratina flat out doesn't exist in this version. The creation of the Lake trio is completely different in the final game. Dialga and Palkia are constantly fighting, here they are a lovely couple for some reason. What we're looking at here is a very early version of the Sinnoh lore we ended up getting. Which is also awesome and a very unique look, but it's not canon.
Parts of it got reused as different ideas. Most of it did not get used at all. If it was not directly stated by the devs officially or in game, it is not canon to the lore. This is very common in game development. Some ideas get used, but some don’t and get scrapped.
I mean, it's normal for it to be nonsense, it's a creation myth, these were what people imagined happened without meaningful evidence, and then passed on to other people by oral retellings, meaning the story got distorted further and further. This lore could still be 100% canon, but with people being wrong in the universe.
the defeated giants were the ultra beasts. thats just one of my theories most of the "deities" mentioned in these myths were not unique or even legendary. gyarados is just a fishy that grew into a sea monster
They cant be the ultrabeasts, because they live inside the multiverse created by arceus and are normal animals in their respective dimensions, the giants would be from outside the multiverse and would have a power comparable to that of the true form of Arceus, so they would completely destroy the multiverse if they ever entered it, the closest thing we have as a giant is eternamax
@@giulianopisciottano8302 the ultra beasts were banished to outside of arceus' domain. another universe in another dimension. then populated those dimensions with things made in their images. no one said they were comparable in power to arceus. eternatus maybe too. or necrozma or the original dragon
@@Samrules888 the ultra beasts inhabit universes that were created by Arceus, the Ultra city the ultra world of the nihilego, all of the ultra worlds are part of the multiverse created by Arceus, the giants are much more than that they are above the multiverse. Eternatus may be a part of a giant, no a full one but a small part that infiltrated the multiverse
That fact alone that this info was obtained illegally gives reason not to give it too much attention. That or it's possible Gamefreak let it be leaked to try and distract from the lawsuit
The fact that Arceus' Egg was able to hatch implies that _someone_ had to walk 30600 steps to make it happen.
@@lasercraft32 God taking his first Pokemon out for a walk?
The world was made by EA, which is why so many parts of it are focused on squeezing every last cent out of you
Lol
What world ours?
@@lightdarksoul2097yeah bro our world, the real world, was created by a pokemon… GET OUTTT 🗣️🗣️🗣️
@@Laqqy that's what I'm not getting in the pokemon world many things are free like health care
😂😂😂
If they didn't officially release this information than it's not canon. It just sounds like scraped ideas.
Except they have. Bits and pieces. For example the giants are confirmed by Legends Arceus and the Sinnoh games. This "scrapped" ideas is literally just what was in game, but extended and given more context.
@@jamaldavis2480 though not made public for one reason or another.
Well they clearly did not scrap all of it. Lol it was just changed and improved. This is old version.
@jamaldavis2480 Calm down, this is all just a rough draft, no one knows how much of it is true, but certainly very little.
Just because they repurposed some stuff, doesn’t make everything they write on their draft canon.
A lot of people are forgetting this stuff is scrapped concepts and not canon. There’s a very good reason the Typhlosion thing was scrapped.
Dude who cares if it was scrapped, it being even considered is interesting enough to discuss
The giants part is interesting, because it still exists in canon, but only by mere mention.
@Eldritchsama...what kind of berries do you think they ate?
@@MetalKing1417 so dynamax
I'd say the creation story is still canon because both HGSS and Legends Arceus had that symbol.
>"EA the god of darkness"
yeah that sounds about right
also Primal Dialga suddenly makes a lot more sense
“Dark Dialga”
@@Kyle-zz6mx yeah yeah I know
I really hope we get more information about the giants in a future game. So much lore potential and if things were most likely changed, maybe they could make it that some of them were alive in some weakened state. All the other stuff definitely seems scrapped I agree.
Maybe there were 18 giants, one to represent each type and one for each plate’s power
That is what the plates themselves say, they contain the power of defeated giants
Well there would only be 17 giants since arceus is the normal type one
The Regis
I feel like those giants are wayyyy stronger than anything we've seen before like stronger than any legendary or other pokemon well arceus stronger yeahhh but prob a game past of arceus?
@@miguelflores1876
The years-old theory is that the Giants are the Original Dragon Kyurem, Complete Zygarde, Ultra Necrozma, Eternamax Eternatus, and Stellar Terapagos
Each new Dex there was always a brand new super OP mon that had Arceus-like stats and special powers similar to the previous one, and they got added to the list with every new Gen
6:27 Woah so basically humans are decendants of palkia and pokemon are descendants of dialga.... As crazy of a story this is... This still tells a cohesive story when looked at theologically... This is really cool lore and a lot makes sense with what we do know and can probably imply with design choices and actions, thank you for this story
Evangelion ass lore
Chris Chan’s “How the Pokémon Came into our Pokéballs” -ahh origin story
This is a pretty cool beta origin for the Pokemon universe, sounds like a crazy jrpg plot.
Still it sucks that lots of stuff got leaked, I genuinely encourage people to be careful online if you don't want to know about things and if you do know stuff don't tell people who don't want to know about the leak stuff.
I mean... It is, that is literally what it is
@@lawznwdscat least what’s been leaked is fir games that’ve already been out, aside from the codename for gen 10 which may or may not even hint at anything judging by the other codenames.
@@lawznwdsc by “be careful online” do you mean “don’t go online at all”?
@@THGMR-ox7sd No just be careful, there are tons of leaks relating to Pokemon mostly beta and anime stuff but there are things about Legends Z-A and Gen 10 too.
The story you read was the original draft, the document has 12 more after, each time getting more actualized, like dialga and palkia beeing listed as time and space pokemon as well as tyrnaitar being linked with groudon instead of Rayquaza, gyarados with kyogre and dragonite with rayquaza, in othe story it also says that palkia and dialga didnt had pokemon forms until the human war then the 2 gods create dragon pokemon phisical forms.
Where is this located? This is the first place I'm hearing or seeing this anywhere.
Yeah send a link to that
Hopefully those ones become more publicized. Because I have to see anybody post about them yrt myself
@@taputrainer8463 i tried to send a link and youtube deleted it
Given that the Sinnjoh ruins diagram is the one from the leaks with an additional circle representing Giratina, I reckon that even if this exact version of the lore isn't canon, the pokemon featured in the diagram are probably still linked
It sure did changed forever, Typhlosion is *Canon*
For you😂
I definitely don't think this is still fully canon, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get the giants at some point. And apparently they do consider Pokémon and humans to be sister species to this day, considering other things that have leaked, including what appears to be the full story of the Veilstone sword myth.
Pichupedia is one of the few rational Pokémon fans
Dialga and Palkia having children makes zero sense with how they act with each other currently
Than why did he record this with loud music and a voice filter, I can barley hear him
@@gloving4hire i think that might be a you thing babes. He sounds fine to me
@@connorpakenham9021I second that. Audio levels are fine on my end.
@@JTtheOctoling Really? Haven't you even seen a divorced couple fight with one another? It seems pretty standard.
IA is actually Dialga, and EA is Palkia. Because IA had something to do with time, and humans are supposed to resemble the mother, and we look more like Palkia than Dialga cuz Palkia is bipedal. Palkia and Dialga are based of on izanagi and izanami, And Izanami is a female with a connection to space. Oh and there’s a official text that basically says that Palkia is EA.
Given that Arceus shares a relationship with the Unown, I've always assumed that the 'vortex of chaos', from which the Cosmic Egg containing Arceus spontaneously appeared, was the Unown, whose collective power created the Cosmic Egg. Arceus hatched from the Egg and harnessed the collective power of the Unown to create the universe, then Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina, to embody aspects of the newly created universe (time, space, and anti-matter, respectively).
Given that the Pokémon multiverse exists, it's possible that Arceus created, at first, a single universe that branched out into different timelines (overseen by Dialga and Palkia). Arceus as it appears in D/P/Pt/BD/SP is an echo or fragment of the original Arceus (which appears in Legends: Arceus). There is one Unown Dimension that interacts with different timelines, and similarly one Distortion World that serves to balance the multiverse, with Giratina looking out onto different timelines (such as the timeline of Platinum) from the Distortion World. When the Pokémon of Myth are captured by a trainer, Arceus creates copies of the Pokémon of Myth to oversee time, space, and the Distortion World in their place.
The Japanese dialogue uses the term "bunshin" to talk about the Arceus we catch as well as for Palkia, Giratina and Dialga, implying they're all alternate "clones" of Arceus that it can create at will
Just remember this is a beta origin!
@@Shinntokuwell the english dialogue says officially "emanations" which roughly means the same thing
In judaism, God created the world by speaking. Words have powers and so do letters. Unown are letters with a curious ancient power. I wouldnt be surprised if Unowns were origunally supposed to be the creator of the universe, but turned into the tool to Arceus, the artist.
Unowns are the letters writing Pokemons story.
@@ma_cherri this is also mirrored in a Japanese belief about the power of words known as kotodama. I love seeing how different cultures can have such similar ideas
Nothing’s changed, there’s just new context that’s interesting to think about. I’m intrigued by the Pokémon in the big ol’ creation symbol. Like, the support Pokémon specifically.
Because they consciously chose pseudolegendaries, but not ALL of them. And fair enough, Salamence is incredibly lame. But also, Gyarados is there. Which makes sense from the perspective of Japanese mythology. But that just makes you wonder if Gyarados is there, are there other “normal” Pokémon that could have a “legendary” aspect to them that could be a support Pokémon in the pantheon? Like how Arcanine’s Pokedex category was the “Legendary Pokémon”? Now that’s interesting.
Yeah this is more recontextualization than a complete change of the lore. The stuff with the giants even somewhat lines up with an existing theory about the origin of the plates and type
@@Shinntoku Another possibility with the giants - Gen 8. Eternatus comes from... Somewhere (we don't know where, all we know is it's not from here). And Eternatus creates giants through its power contaminating other Pokemon, when this happens in unstable "chaotic" conditions they go berserk. We also have the glowy alpha Pokemon in Legends Arceus and the Titans in Paldea, both being giant and berserk as well.
The giants could have been Pokemon like Eternatus (not necessarily Mr Hands himself). 17 Eternatus-like giants each embodying a different type that were slain & turned into the plates to quell them. With Eternatus being the child of one of those primordial giants (he did hatch out of a giant egg), with his ancestor being one of the things that were turned into the Poison Plate.
Terapagos might be one of them as well since it seems to be responsible for Herba Mystica which also giantizes Pokemon.
@@jaernihiltheus7817 ooh, that would make eternatus much more reasonable as a pokemon imo.
In the original gen3 sprite list salamence was listed as a 2 stage line pokemon, bagon was hadded later, so maybe metagross is the og single pesudo of gen3 and salamance originally wasnt imagined in that way
@@jaernihiltheus7817
Eternatus didn't hatch from an egg, that was made up by someone and spread by BirdKeeperTobey. It literally doesn't fit with the canon lore, Eternatus itself would be the Giant (according to the theory).
It clearly was a contantment unit that it broke out of, but apparently this people would look at a minivan and claim it was an egg containing humans lol
No bc this stuff goes so hard as in-universe lore. Think the scholars of the Pokémon world arguing over correct translations of ancient texts and whether Giratina is a later addition influenced by another belief system and whatnot, just like we try to make sense of ancient myths in the real world. It's so cool to think about!!
In PLA there is a journal where a guy says he married and had kids with a Froslass.
I DO think we’ll see some ideas of this story be the basis/inspiration of future legendaries/mythicals in the future. Like I’m pretty sure the “Tree of Life” was the basis for Gen 6’s lore with their legendaries. Also the Giant Pokemon that came from Arceus’s egg can possibly tie in to Gen 10 of it’s really indeed Greek based cause then they’ll be like Primodials or Titans of Greek Mythos. Singled type Promodial Pokemon would be prettt sweet
Canon is a pointless term in this case. So is saying that it is a scrapped idea. This IS the creation lore of pokemon... as it was in 2005. It has evolved (like pokemon lol) over time. Discounting this completely is absolutely insane. Especially when bits and pieces of this are present in games. Saying this was discarded when they literally still use the triangle template is nuts. It's just a beta version of the lore... THATS what it is: nothing more, nothing less. You wouldn't look at beta Pokémon game and say "This is canon or not canon" That doesn't make sense, its a beta... This is the creation lore as it was in 2005 like I said.
What is VERY valuable here is that we have a look into the internal canon of game freak. Because there is DEFINITELY an internal canon that they keep to themselves. So seeing a part of that is so rare and quite honestly awesome!
The point of the video is that some people will take the obviously scrapped and outright contradictory information and take it as if it is fact, and how little it'll make sense when it happens. This information is useless in the discussion of Pokémon's canonical story, but it's interesting in the context of a behind the scenes, "fun fact" kinda deal.
You don’t know that this is the creation lore. It could simply be a work in progress or something that was scrapped and repurposed. Just because it exists doesn’t mean it was finalized and should be considered to be the official lore at any point in time.
I do think it’s really interesting and cool to see some of the ideas they were thinking of back then and how it connects to what was settled on and made it out to the games but calling it canon isn’t something that can be verified.
best comment in my opinion. its beta rather canon
It literally isn't Canon, that's what Beta means lol
Only some details stay, a bunch of stuff (most of it) was changed. This is an early draft, you don't just make a single draft and roll with it. You keep refining it, fixing it, cleaning it, until you have the final draft. The FINAL draft is the Canon one, because that's the version you are using for the story of the final product.
So no, "Canon" isn't a pointless term in this case. It is straight up NonCanon
@@jvbon646except the only way to make sense of the Arceus diagram is by using the "beta" material, so cope
Hey guys, this older draft for a movie script completely contradicts the story we got in the final version! Clearly there's a continuity error.
Yes, the document predates Giratina, but the canonically stuff we get in the Gen4 titles and Legends Arceus still exclude Giratina in the framework of the universe. That isn't a mistake being made.
Garatina does exist in Pokemon LA
@@zeanone9257
It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that IN-universe "it doesn't exists" as in "the plot, stories, myths, and 99% of human population aren't aware of its existance"
Yes, Giratina exists in LA, but it wasn't general knowledge unlike say, Dialga and Palkia who even tho people had SOME details wrong the general idea was there
@@jvbon646 the lore was made In the real world by real people not inside the Pokemon universe
@@zeanone9257 No it doesn't. Not in the cosmology chart. It is the same exact one that is depicted in this leak, that is depicted in the SInjoh Ruins event, and then redepicted in PLA. Giratina is not involved,. At least not on the same level as Dialga and Palkia. It is very possible Giratina would have replaced some other unknown or known Pokemon on that chart, but it would put Giratina at far lesser importance doing that.
So yes, Giratina is excluded... and surprise that fits with Giratina lore... of being excluded and forced into the distortion world.
@@jamaldavis2480 do you not know why people don't remember that event because it needed a event exclusive Pokemon and I don't think Pokemon themselves remember that event
Well, now the diagram makes sense.. its not just a bunch of random shapes put together if we wanna believe this lore as Canon
Although i do think Palkia is Mother (if you know what i mean), it freaks me out to think legendary Pokemon are conceived as a female/male duo and are not given those designs elements to simply differentiate them from each other.
It’s actually been confirmed that Palkia is EA the mother, And that Dialga is IA the father.
@@aliviapearlaren’t legendaries genderless?
@@kaiserwave5977 Not all are
Well, the thumbnail answers the question: No, it didn't.
We got official Pokemon Bible before GTA VI 😭
what ya'll need to remember is that like 90% of the data taken was beta builds, concept art, things not intended to be released cause they never needed to be released. these bits of lore were probably written with the idea of being put in the games but were scrapped for one reason or another and are most likely not cannon
Something interesting to note is how when that triangle symbol finally appeared in a game, they added another circle behind Arceus. Presumably to represent Giratina
This is almost certainly not reliably canon, I agree. But it also doesn't make sense to totally write it off, as you observed: there are elements such as the giants that seem to have survived.
Contradictions aren't necessarily a smoking gun to me. What we learn about Pokémon lore is communicated to us through myths and legends passed down through generations. These myths are not always necessarily reliable in themselves. Third version legendaries in particular have a habit of swooping in to recontextualise the other two.
Game Freak's writers certainly know more than the characters in the setting. The Pokémon world is deliberately written to be full of mysteries, after all. There's enough that survived from this version of the story that makes me think that some version or redraft of this background remain canon. It's another perspective on things that, much like the legends in the stories, should be taken with a grain of salt without being totally dismissed.
By definition, this isn't canon. It's unreleased, Game freak decided not to put this version of the creation myth in the final game.
There are certainly elements in the creation myth that we've seen directly in game but this is pretty clearly an early draft and not a 'canon' origin for the pokemon universe like I've seen it spouted as.
The lore has no changed, don't believe the bs of the "Leaked" stuff. It's just horrid and if it's not in the games, it never made the cut, it's not canon, don't buy into it.
Being an alien and being a god are less exclusive than you might think. Metagross could very easily be both, as aliens, angels, demons, and star represented gods often are treated as overlapping things in myths and folklore.
It’s a cut piece of lore from 15 years ago for a reason. They knew it doesn’t make sense.
They clearly took some parts from it, like the giant thing made it into the games in the form of information you gotta look for, and the Egg origin made it into a Pokédex entry
the documents were being made during sinnoh development era likely beceause they were trying to expand the lore between devs so they could properly understand how dialga, palkia, arceus, etc would work in the game, just because its old doesnt mean it wasnt used.
It makes sense but it’s not the final draft and clearly it made enough sense for it to be in hgss
If this was never released you should not consider it canon, it could just be scrapped early concepts and ideas. But it's also possible they were planning on releasing it later, after a bit more rework. Alternatively it can just be they are using it as reference point. We don't know. Most of the info is what we already knew, so it does't really change much. Although the part about the blood was interesting. Pokemon have mentioned blood before, but it's never been used in such a graphic manner before.
E.A. Being an evil god makes sense just look at what they do
I head canon that there are different dominations of the pokemon origin lore, similar to christianity. And/or different perspectives of the pokemon origin, like the many different religions/myths in the real world.
Well since this lore was made around 15 years ago, I’m pretty sure a lot of it is outdated by now.
The biggest thing for me arguing in favor of an updated version of this story being canon, at least for a while, is the chart we get in HG/SS and PL:A which has been updated to add Giratina into it. I think you’re right that this was a first draft, but I don’t think the final version is too far off from it either for that chart to have made it into the games twice. That said, there’s a chance that some of the pokemon were replaced with some of the Gen 5 legendaries, and the Gen 6 and 7 legendaries tie into the established set of lore really nicely, especially with the concept of the world tree.
I don’t think every legend/mythical/Psuedo is tied to this mythology nowadays (think more of smaller myth in the larger pantheon), but your big reality defining gods definitely still fit into this design. I’d actually be curious to see a fan attempt to expand this concept and add in the remaining legendaries/pseudo sin a way that makes lore sense
Giratina isn't even included in this lore, that's how outdated these ideas are. They've certainly changed it at least to some degree by the point they released the games, so I wouldn't worry about the incompatible details too much and just focus on the things we might still learn from it despite them
There seems to be several different drafts of these within the leak
I saw one earlier today that does include Giratina as the first shadow that was cast when Arceus was born
And on that one Dialga and Palkia are referred to as gods of time and space
@@Sigismund697
Do you know were can I find the whole thing?
That isn't Twitter or Centro Leaks (fck Centro)
@@jvbon646use 4chan
@@jvbon646 I found the whole folder with the 7 or so drafts on 4chan
But I have no links at the moment sorry
I wouldn’t say it’s scrapped because the piece of dialogue from gen 4 about Pokémon and humans sitting at the same table falls completely in line with this.
I'm gonna throw out a bone here and guess that the "giants" that gave origins to the plates might have intended to be the Regis. Sword and Shield call them the "legendary giants" and all of them are monotype pokemon whose concept is literally embodying a certain base element (rock, ice, steel, electricity, draconic energy).
They're also all have designs based on the hebrew version golems, being inanimate objects brought to life, and the "giants" were the shell of the egg before being brought to life and attacking Arceus.
They were so close to the link of pseudo-legendaries to their legendary counterparts. Dragonite for the sea, tyranitar for the land, and salamence for the sky makes a lot of sense!
The Giants aren't just from the Book
They were there since Gen4's debut and they were mentioned in the Plates themselves. BDSP and LA still have the line about the Giants, so they 100% are still Canon. (They would've taken it out if their current version of the lore retconned out of existence)
"The Gods, i guess, not even really that"
Wut? They ARE that. The title "God" only means that you hold some kind of special power over something and that you are worshipped as such.
They both control Time and Space, and they *are* the source of it, and LA shows that they even were worshipped. They created the PokeEarth. They *ARE* Gods.
Also Tyranitar as a God of Sky is the most delulu statement posible... at first glance. Then you remember that it was the ONLY Pokemon that by default had control over the Weather (a phenomenom that relates to the Sky) other than Kyogre and Groudon. Sand Stream was exclusive, any other mon depended on using a Move to do the same.
I don't think I read this creation myth before (I read other scrapped legends that leaked, but I either missed that one or didn't read it properly), and oh wow, uxie, azelf and mesprit represent the eyes, heart and voice? In the typhlosion legend and some other one it's mentioned that they want their eyes, heart, and voice burned in a pyre! Seems like these three things would be seen as a source of vitality in this version of lore, of the spirit or essence of sorts. That's very interesting!
I mean, if it's not on any official material, it's not canon. It's simple as that. Don't know where all the confusion is coming from.
Its obvious they didnt feel comfortable releasing this because it would undermine the legendaries of later gens.
Oh man, the lore is changed forever, it is ruined omg...
I didn't know people take unused, scrapped and rejected lore and stories as 100% serious canon.
So you're telling me if an employee at GameFreaks wrote down a joke about how a Magikarp vanquished Arceus, it would be so canon to the community, and not at all a joke?
No wonder they got hysterical about the stories between Pokemon and Humans. They can't differentiate facts from reality!
With this being said and all this information being revealed, it is merely inspiration and a rough draft for what would become Canon and we can expect past scrapped ideas like this and more to continue seving as inspiration and source material for fute developments in ganes and lore that is Canon.
Nintendo bootlickers will go "this information wasn't released so it isn't canon and therefore it doesn't matter"
The part that really made me doubt this being canon, was the idea that the "children of god who resembled [Dialga] were called Pokémon, and the children of god who resembled [Palkia] were called human". Palkia does not look like a human in any way.
the one we normally see doesn't, but Origin Form Palkia *does* have a humanoid upper body
it probably means the fact that palkia is bipedal, and dialga is quadraped. thats not much of a similarity but humans look less like dialga sooooo
@@X3nophiliac yes, but by that metric, Gardevoir shouldn't be a Pokémon. It should be human.
While it is funny to imagine that Palkia is the ascendant of human kind because it's the bipedal dragon in the Creation Duo/Trio, you should take the bit about EA and IA being the same thing as Dialga and Palkia with a grain of salt. Those were just added by Pichupedia, they don't exist in the translation of the lore that he reads in the video.
@@Shinntokuorigin form is even less human looking than normal, which has literal hands
Dude Pichupedia is my favorite go to guy for information, he gets right to the point
deities not really, but for themes of light and dark that was carried over to Reshiram and Zekrom.
Lets be real this all probably a earlier draft and the only think to get from it is how different it was
And the more horrible things from the leak like the trypoltion thing is most definitely (hopefully) just a horrible employe who uses there break time making bad fanfiction and most be buried in the ocean floor
Pichupedia is one of the smartest Pokémon TH-camrs
Insane glazing
OMG I DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE SYMBOL WHEN I SAW THE LEAKS 🤯🤯🤯
No. What was leaked was some employees fanfic.
As much as the leaks sucks for the employees, Im glad we got a sneak peak of the concept sketches and writings. It shows what the team was trying to make.
Imagine in the remaining info thats yet to be revealed, we get the real deal 😭
no, its unused
I wonder who were those giants arceus fought against
I wander if the company that Nintendo tried to sue is responsible for the leaks maybe 🤔.
To me it sounds like early concept draft that was changed later in the development of gen 4 and expanded upon in the Legends game. its an early concept at most as have lots on inconsistencies. its interesting tho.
Just for the info, the gamefreak were gonna reboot the pokemon after ZA. Which this new lore could fit in.
Can you make a video on what the lore actually is? That'd clear up a lot of things ^_^
Honestly the origin of Disney classic folktales are way worse, just do a search about the Grimm brothers and their original stories. But folklore translated and watered down for the audience to comprehend and accept later on is the reason why nobody are supposed have stolen confidential documents from GameFreak.
Even if it's not technically canon it's still a really cool creation myth
A big thing I keep seeing is people taking it at face value as a finalised and definitive origin of the universe, but it's clearly not that. Allot of the names are likely just placeholders in this draft, especially considering the non-legendaries mentioned like Tyranitar and Gyarados. Not to mention that it's got plenty of details contradicted by later games. As a window into the development of Pokémon, this is 100% a great thing, but should not be taken as hard canon like some people are doing. Last I checked, Metagross wasn't a minor god of the sea. I don't think it even learns water type moves
AND HECK! As I was finishing typing this out, the Eon Duo being gods doesn't make sense either given that there's reference to them living in herds in the games (Which is sadly not seen) or shown as being capable of reproducing in the anime (Specifically movie 5 which talks about Latias and Latios' father, another Latios)
While this isn't true to the actual lore of pokemon this might be accurate to the myths and legends that the ancient peoples of sinno remember that statue that was half palkia and half dialga it might have been referencing this myth rather than an actual pokemon
Leaks are not immoral
This wasn't a leak it was a data breach and theft of personal information
As long as Typhlosion is canonically not Diddy and Arceus is the only actual capital G God in the series then I'm ok.
You could have explained it better, there's a lot of misinformation in your comment section, could have said documents like these are meant to be reference to developers and probably got changed later but are never meant to be shown to public.
Very cool stuff. Hope we get more vids on this topic by people like you. All the others I found were by generic content farm-ish Poketubers.
One interesting part about palkia being related to light, in pmd explorers the original versions versions are called, time and darkness, considering that time is messed up in that game, could that mean palkia was also related? Still doesnt matters much tho since pmd isnt cannon anyways
Did Palkia show up post game to get rid of Darkarai?
@@boslyporshy6553 yeah
I don't know man, I think this sounds awesome. The story feels really Biblical, and yet mythological at the same time. EA and IA birthing many children sounds both like how Adam and Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply. The weather trio becoming the pillar that holds up the sky, the earth itself, and the veins of water that enompass it brings images of Norse, Greek, Aztec, Buddhist and Shinto myths.
Also, I think it's really cool how the gods have been given "names" that consist of simple letters. AUS, IA, EA, RY, HY, AY. It calls to how in many Hebrew texts, God is sometimes referred to as YHVH because His name is too holy to be spoken by mere sinful humans.
I think there's a lot of cool things in this story, and that just dismissing it as making no sense doesn't do it justice.
THEY GOT MY GOAT 😭😭😭😭😭
Are you serious? Are we going to act like it is not canon when we do have officially released parts of this creation myth. We just going to act like Pokemon Legends Arceus does not exist? Alright. champ you do you I guess.
The only thing that don't make sense is the Psuedo-Legendary and lower Pokemon being considering supporting gods. Everything else literally fits.
The fact that origin dialga and palkia together represent two halves of arceus too just like this myth
I’m interested in this take, why do you believe parts of it are in PLA ?
@@enzoul777 Some of it is confirmed by the plates, like the giant thing and maybe even the lake trio creating the world
There is plenty of more that doesn't fit. Giratina flat out doesn't exist in this version. The creation of the Lake trio is completely different in the final game. Dialga and Palkia are constantly fighting, here they are a lovely couple for some reason.
What we're looking at here is a very early version of the Sinnoh lore we ended up getting. Which is also awesome and a very unique look, but it's not canon.
Parts of it got reused as different ideas. Most of it did not get used at all. If it was not directly stated by the devs officially or in game, it is not canon to the lore.
This is very common in game development. Some ideas get used, but some don’t and get scrapped.
how crazy people are about this, so much stupid exclamation.
So palkia and dialga canonnly a couple? 😂
Not anymore
Pikachu 😮
wtf u dont even show the text? xd who knows how much u making up here
I mean, it's normal for it to be nonsense, it's a creation myth, these were what people imagined happened without meaningful evidence, and then passed on to other people by oral retellings, meaning the story got distorted further and further. This lore could still be 100% canon, but with people being wrong in the universe.
Only disagreement I have, it is always moral to steal from corporations.
the defeated giants were the ultra beasts. thats just one of my theories
most of the "deities" mentioned in these myths were not unique or even legendary. gyarados is just a fishy that grew into a sea monster
They cant be the ultrabeasts, because they live inside the multiverse created by arceus and are normal animals in their respective dimensions, the giants would be from outside the multiverse and would have a power comparable to that of the true form of Arceus, so they would completely destroy the multiverse if they ever entered it, the closest thing we have as a giant is eternamax
@@giulianopisciottano8302 the ultra beasts were banished to outside of arceus' domain. another universe in another dimension. then populated those dimensions with things made in their images. no one said they were comparable in power to arceus. eternatus maybe too. or necrozma or the original dragon
@@Samrules888 the ultra beasts inhabit universes that were created by Arceus, the Ultra city the ultra world of the nihilego, all of the ultra worlds are part of the multiverse created by Arceus, the giants are much more than that they are above the multiverse. Eternatus may be a part of a giant, no a full one but a small part that infiltrated the multiverse
That fact alone that this info was obtained illegally gives reason not to give it too much attention.
That or it's possible Gamefreak let it be leaked to try and distract from the lawsuit
Doubt so, personal information leaked as well, idk much about jp policies but feel that will be a huge headache to deal with.