Have you considered mortise/tenon joints? We use that in the aircraft industry for galley production. It’s very strong, some of the galleys are tested to a static load of more that 20,000 lbf. It’s also very light and less labor intensive as no angle extrusions are needed.
It looks like you have riveted aluminium to steel. Is there not an issue if galvanic corrosion? Also, you mention elsewhere the foam is porous, is it open or closed cell? If water contacts the foam directly, is it absorbed or unable to penetrate?
I believe the only purpose of the rivets is to hold the pieces together while the adhesive is curing. Since they are shaving off the heads, there is no structural benefit to the rivets.
You do not want to fully compress the bonding surfaces and squeeze out your adhesive. With the XPS foam core being porous you are able to keep a tight bond line.
It would have been great to expend the usage of the panel in the video. Things like to roof setting wat not addressed, neither things like cable running or pipe running. Other aspect would have been reinforcement or technics when you mount a door or anything that will carry a load, such as bench / bed. I guess we are ll familiar with wood work and know how to do theses thing with it, but with such a new material it is totally unknown to me.
Helpful, thanks. Will it be structurally strong enough to support the roof piece resting on the wall panels, or is a wood or metal frame needed to support it?
I saw a video from Australia showing i think 15 people standing on the roof of a similar construction trailer. No frame required is why this construction is so awesome. I build mine with moulded rounded corner construction and no caps, still plenty strong but not for offroad. Great to see a company selling product for the DIY crowd.
Concerned about de-lamination whether from when I cut out openings, corners, etc or just over time. What do you recommend to re-glue the frp to the foam and do you sell it?
Thats correct you do not want to have exposed edges on the panels. However, the water intrusion needed to cause any type of delamination is infintiley greater than a traditional plywood (stick and tin) camper. When you cut a hole for a door or a window the FRP and XPS foam core will stay bonded together and you won't need to glue any exposed edges. Just make sure the final installation of the door/window is well sealed.
I love your guys trailers and am happy you’re selling these panels now. I gotta ask though, if you had to panels each with a 45 miter and a 90, hey in the world would you choose the butt joint? I’m guessing the person that cut them for you is facepalming after watching the video.
I was thinking the same thing. The mitered corner would place the rivets much further inboard from the edge of the fiberglass and give the Sika an actual surface to bond to rather than just being pressed onto foam (which has no strength).
There is always more than one way to skin a cat. The Boreas Campers product uses butt joints in its construction process. This requires a larger peice of alum angle to cover the corners. We just posted up another video using a lap joint. The lap joint process will be used in our pre cut and/or pre assebled camper kits. Here is a link th-cam.com/video/mYdatjOi5AY/w-d-xo.html
Curious here, are you saying that can be used as/or in place of a floor? Is it really that strong & has anyone ever seen/heard of this being used in a "House-Boat"? I'm looking into some things & this caught my eyes so I stopped in to see how good it is?
I know that many pontoon boat manufactures are going to composite decking/floors as opposed to marine plywood, however, I'm not sure what their exact specs are. Using our panels as a floor is not an issue. You do need to have support members at a minium of 18 inches. I also recommend using a secondary finish, such as LVL in high traffic areas.
I like the material & it looks like it's easy to handle. Tough -n- light weight is all good. I'm still researching but I wouldn't use plywood anyway, not marine or any other b/c it's too heavy. This stuff has some good attributes but do know if can be covered w/ fiberglass? I'm real new to all of this & I thank you for sharing the info here. I do like it, thanks a lot.
Look at the butt join of the wall corner, the alloy angle glues to 85% of one panel (Inc foam, useless) and 10-15% of the 2nd panel. Looks like you stuffed up and should of used the 45's!??
Aluminium riveted to steel - recipe for disaster right there,it won’t be many years before the rivets corrode because of galvanic reaction between the two dissimilar materials.
The holes in the steel are pre drilled, then powder coated and the rivets used in this application are stainless steel, eliminating galvanic corrosion.
@@adamcalkins112 You may be an expert and I'm not, but I know a little bit about this application and have to take steps to avoid this exact issue in extremely harsh environments, like down inside salt mines and high concentration bleach applications. What you describe is unlikely to work and really should be avoided at all costs. Stainless connected to aluminum is the biggest problem and will likely cause issues before the powder coated steel has time to have much effect. Even if the rivets had a non-conducting insulator, the insulation would be thin and easily worn through and it could happen during the initial coupling operation and almost certainly once stresses are put on the chassis. The way I would want to do this is replace the powder coated steel frame with an aluminum frame. I recognize that is a larger cost, and I would, I think, to prefer to make the bottom frame part of the permanent structure. If that is impossible, I would still likely weld the bottom aluminum frame and body aluminum frame together and if I were forced to use bolts, I would use tabs and insulate the bolts with bushings that allowed no contact between the bolts and the frame, but that is just a future failure point eventually. Just from my experience, I would be very concerned if I knew that my camper had an aluminum frame riveted to a powder coated carbon steel frame with a stainless rivet. You could use explosively welded aluminum and steel plate cut into strips and completely eliminate the galvanic corrosion issue, but that would probably cost more than just making it all 100% aluminum.
As efficient as these panels may be, you’d have the ugliest camper out there. Or can this be made with an inner skeleton and capped corners? Cannot make curves, I assume? How do you run wires?
You are able to bend the panels up 20 degrees for a sloped roof or you can cut multiple pieces to add angles. No interior struture is necessary, but yes you can cap the corners if desired for asthetics or additional strength. Small conduit on the exteior of the walls works great for running wire. Check out @boreascampers for an example of this composite panel and aluminum exoskeleton system
Make sure to check out our newest video on how to cut composite panels - th-cam.com/video/mYdatjOi5AY/w-d-xo.html
Cool demo of how your product is built!!
thank you!
Great video!
thanks!
Very sad moment God bless the family Good job boys and girls finding the grandmother
Best how to I've found so far.. well done 👍🏼
It doesn’t seem there is much bearing surface of the floor panel on the aluminum angle. I’d put the wall panels in first.
I did not see any adhesive being applied to the joint of the two wall panels. Did I miss it?
Good call
None
@alsnyder1660 look again. SikaFlex was used
@@kevinrusso6849wrong
@@michaelcagle4662you blind? Sikaflex was applied
SO happy to find this product state side. You will be hearing from me.
Great, thank you!
This kind of system would make an immensely strong geodesic dome house
is there any reason not to 45 cut the floor and the bottom of the wall panels?
does that foam burn?
So, there is no need to add any adhesive to the butt joint where the two walls meet? odd but OK.
How is the roof attached? Just glue and rivets? Doesn’t sit on the walls?
Have you considered mortise/tenon joints?
We use that in the aircraft industry for galley production. It’s very strong, some of the galleys are tested to a static load of more that 20,000 lbf.
It’s also very light and less labor intensive as no angle extrusions are needed.
Glue and pray....that the sun stays away. Between road wear and heat/UV, what is the expected lifespan of a build when done to top spec?
It looks like you have riveted aluminium to steel. Is there not an issue if galvanic corrosion?
Also, you mention elsewhere the foam is porous, is it open or closed cell? If water contacts the foam directly, is it absorbed or unable to penetrate?
I believe the only purpose of the rivets is to hold the pieces together while the adhesive is curing. Since they are shaving off the heads, there is no structural benefit to the rivets.
Doesn’t the adhesive need a standoff of about a mm or so to allow the adhesive to flex and ensure there’s enough left in the joint?
You do not want to fully compress the bonding surfaces and squeeze out your adhesive. With the XPS foam core being porous you are able to keep a tight bond line.
It would have been great to expend the usage of the panel in the video. Things like to roof setting wat not addressed, neither things like cable running or pipe running. Other aspect would have been reinforcement or technics when you mount a door or anything that will carry a load, such as bench / bed. I guess we are ll familiar with wood work and know how to do theses thing with it, but with such a new material it is totally unknown to me.
Nice! how about roof install?
$1100 a sheet is F’n insane.
Impressive. What about Criters?
How do you handle large alcoves? Do you need reinforcements in the panel? Let’s say a 2.4 meters long alcove? Cheers!
How do you attach roof panel?
Helpful, thanks. Will it be structurally strong enough to support the roof piece resting on the wall panels, or is a wood or metal frame needed to support it?
I saw a video from Australia showing i think 15 people standing on the roof of a similar construction trailer. No frame required is why this construction is so awesome. I build mine with moulded rounded corner construction and no caps, still plenty strong but not for offroad. Great to see a company selling product for the DIY crowd.
@@steveogilvie5203 I would love to see that! I'm trying to figure out how to assemble the roof transition, I wish this video explained it...
@@hellogoodwin i have built 3 so far. I use a removable wooden mold. I won't post a link but I have made lots of videos, just do a search.
@@hellogoodwin Styromax has posted lots of videos too. You might find your answer there .
Thanks Steve!
Can you paint your panels?
Concerned about de-lamination whether from when I cut out openings, corners, etc or just over time. What do you recommend to re-glue the frp to the foam and do you sell it?
Thats correct you do not want to have exposed edges on the panels. However, the water intrusion needed to cause any type of delamination is infintiley greater than a traditional plywood (stick and tin) camper. When you cut a hole for a door or a window the FRP and XPS foam core will stay bonded together and you won't need to glue any exposed edges. Just make sure the final installation of the door/window is well sealed.
@@boreascompositepanels What sealant do you use/recommend?
man thats some heavy duty good stuff!!
Thank you!
I love your guys trailers and am happy you’re selling these panels now. I gotta ask though, if you had to panels each with a 45 miter and a 90, hey in the world would you choose the butt joint? I’m guessing the person that cut them for you is facepalming after watching the video.
I was thinking the same thing. The mitered corner would place the rivets much further inboard from the edge of the fiberglass and give the Sika an actual surface to bond to rather than just being pressed onto foam (which has no strength).
There is always more than one way to skin a cat. The Boreas Campers product uses butt joints in its construction process. This requires a larger peice of alum angle to cover the corners. We just posted up another video using a lap joint. The lap joint process will be used in our pre cut and/or pre assebled camper kits. Here is a link th-cam.com/video/mYdatjOi5AY/w-d-xo.html
I would have glued the panel edges and also where the aluminium trims join to prevent water ingress.
Is the ceiling panel the same?
Yes sir, that is correct.
Adhesive is Sikaflex-255. Panels are XPS glassed with woven mat.
Nailed it.
What is the adhesive?
Curious here, are you saying that can be used as/or in place of a floor? Is it really that strong & has anyone ever seen/heard of
this being used in a "House-Boat"? I'm looking into some things & this caught my eyes so I stopped in to see how good it is?
I know that many pontoon boat manufactures are going to composite decking/floors as opposed to marine plywood, however, I'm not sure what their exact specs are. Using our panels as a floor is not an issue. You do need to have support members at a minium of 18 inches. I also recommend using a secondary finish, such as LVL in high traffic areas.
I like the material & it looks like it's easy to handle. Tough -n- light weight is all good. I'm still researching but I wouldn't
use plywood anyway, not marine or any other b/c it's too heavy. This stuff has some good attributes but do know if can
be covered w/ fiberglass? I'm real new to all of this & I thank you for sharing the info here. I do like it, thanks a lot.
I have a 29 year old Rv. The walls are delaminating....peeling. Can I buy these to fix my walls?
Haul it to the dump.
The problem I see at the bottom of the angle iron if it’s not 100% sealed water will penetrate then saturate the Styrofoam then mildew will take over
So quick rough math with pricing from your site puts a roughly 13’ x 5’ uncut panel over $1100.00?
Yes, that is correct at the $17 per square foot. We do have a select panels sizes available at $10 per square foot
awesome....great job!!
Thanks a lot!
Where is the thickness listed on the site?
The overall thickness of the panel is 1.78 inches
Pro Tip - Rigid battery chalking gun
Look at the butt join of the wall corner, the alloy angle glues to 85% of one panel (Inc foam, useless) and 10-15% of the 2nd panel. Looks like you stuffed up and should of used the 45's!??
This is excdlent.
Thank you!
the cost of 1 panel is way too expensive
Just order a walk-in cooler. Easier to assemble and a cleaner finish
Aluminium riveted to steel - recipe for disaster right there,it won’t be many years before the rivets corrode because of galvanic reaction between the two dissimilar materials.
The holes in the steel are pre drilled, then powder coated and the rivets used in this application are stainless steel, eliminating galvanic corrosion.
@@adamcalkins112 You may be an expert and I'm not, but I know a little bit about this application and have to take steps to avoid this exact issue in extremely harsh environments, like down inside salt mines and high concentration bleach applications. What you describe is unlikely to work and really should be avoided at all costs. Stainless connected to aluminum is the biggest problem and will likely cause issues before the powder coated steel has time to have much effect. Even if the rivets had a non-conducting insulator, the insulation would be thin and easily worn through and it could happen during the initial coupling operation and almost certainly once stresses are put on the chassis.
The way I would want to do this is replace the powder coated steel frame with an aluminum frame. I recognize that is a larger cost, and I would, I think, to prefer to make the bottom frame part of the permanent structure. If that is impossible, I would still likely weld the bottom aluminum frame and body aluminum frame together and if I were forced to use bolts, I would use tabs and insulate the bolts with bushings that allowed no contact between the bolts and the frame, but that is just a future failure point eventually. Just from my experience, I would be very concerned if I knew that my camper had an aluminum frame riveted to a powder coated carbon steel frame with a stainless rivet. You could use explosively welded aluminum and steel plate cut into strips and completely eliminate the galvanic corrosion issue, but that would probably cost more than just making it all 100% aluminum.
Over $1000 for the absolute cheapest panel? Fuuuuucccckkkkkk that's expensive. Love to know the markup on that one...
Looks messy with those corner caps
Yeah, I’d have just done a full length piece nice and strong and not visually abrasive. On all four corners, may add 5 lbs and $75.
As efficient as these panels may be, you’d have the ugliest camper out there. Or can this be made with an inner skeleton and capped corners? Cannot make curves, I assume? How do you run wires?
You are able to bend the panels up 20 degrees for a sloped roof or you can cut multiple pieces to add angles. No interior struture is necessary, but yes you can cap the corners if desired for asthetics or additional strength. Small conduit on the exteior of the walls works great for running wire. Check out @boreascampers for an example of this composite panel and aluminum exoskeleton system
No skeleton needed if using mortise/tenon joints. Very strong and light weight
It's all crepe money.
ALL THAT ALLUMINUM is so expensive.
😢