Just remember - the meter in your camera, regardless of averaging or spot - will give you a reading that will produce middle grey. So if you meter snow with a spot meter, that snow would be not white, but middle grey in the neg, and therefore in a print - and everything darker than the snow will also be massively underexposed. and if you under-print to make the snow white, everything else will be muddy grey. So if you then increase contrast in the print to bring a full range of tones to the print, you will end up with a very contrast-y print. To get a full-range negative you must adjust exposure away from the meter reading the appropriate number of stops - ie, for a reading of white snow you must INCREASE exposure by 3 stops; if metering a pile of coal, you will need to DECREASE exposure by 2-3 stops. (Or use an incident meter; it tells you how brightthe light is, regardless of the reflectance of the subject.
Thanks for explaining this because I’ve learned to not trust the operable meter in my F2 and Canon AE-1 (when in manual) since my photos were coming out middle gray.
I picked up an Olympus OM4T recently - because of the meter system it comes with. It has a center weight averaged meter in aperture priority automatic and manual - and now the juicy part: it comes with a built in spot meter that can measure up to 8 spots and average them, holding the measurement in memory. Best metering system in any film camera I've come across.
Works really well, have been daily driving this for a couple of years now. Olympus glass is very good and quite affordable. Be sure to pick up some lenses while they still are as cheap as right now.
@@akaYu07 Yeah, some of the more rare lenses have already started to reach hefty price tags. I went with the cheap 50mm f1.8, added the 24mm f2.8 and just bought a 50mm f1.4, mainly because I wanted a multi-coated standard lens (the f1.8 is not). I will look for a long lens and then I am pretty much set.
One trick I typically use is to meter of the palm of my hand. It's fairly close to an average gray which is what those meters are calibrated to and that will usually give me pretty decent results. To be sure you can then overexpose a little, to be on the safe side.
@@KyleMcDougall You are right< Kyle, caucasian skin is 2/3 to one stop brighter than 18% gray so I spot below the eye adjust meter there and back button focus. You can use the subjects palm, every race has the same tone of palm to meter and if in the same plane as the face, can focus on it as well
I suspect that it is worth pointing out that the pointing the camera down and taking a reading and setting the camera to the indicated shutter speed and aperture, is only really for manual mode on the camera, if you are using aperture priority automatic mode you can point the camera down and use the exposure lock to lock the meter reading so that when you reframe your image you do not expose back at the meter reading with the sky in it.
@@paulturner6834 Now you have got me wondering why Contax used AV for aperture priority automatic not AP. Mind you TV for shutter speed priority make no sense to me either.
Thx Kyle, yes - tilting down when needed is really a good hint!... the Mamiya 7 with its delicate spot metering can sometimes be very tricky if you forget about it when shooting 🙄
@@KyleMcDougall I have this camera. So def be watching! Hopefully I'll learn something/tips. When I first watched your videos I recognised some of the streets as they were so distinctive. Especially one of a takeaway. Turned out I was right and I was working/living around the town centre. It was so bizarre.
It's my favourite camera! I get a somewhat big negative, the camera is still portable, good lenses. I even bought a second one this year just in case my first one might break at some point. 😋
Fantastic video thank you! Every shot I have taken with my Minolta x300 has been at the recommended shutter speed or one speed slower and I have never had a bad exposure with it! I use The techniques you talk about in this video and I can definitely agree that they work. If I was shooting anything more expensive or less flexible than the stocks I use I would probably be a little bit more wary. I always check between scenes with the light metre app but it always seems to line up with the Minolta and I've just gone to trust it. Japanese made in the 80s, You just can't beat that quality.
Would love to see a follow up video or a segment of one going deeper into explaining more about exposure compensation feature on cameras and how to utilize it as well
Hey Kyle! Any chance of a film exposure test of Ilford FP4? It's a pretty special film, especially in 120. An in the field test during these cold/foggy/snowy months in an English or Welsh forest or lake/farm/country scene would be super rad to see.
Interesting video, thanks. It might have been useful to explain more about picking the correct mid grey point in your composition to set the camera's modes to? On a flat day without much difference between shadows and highlights its not going to make much difference where your meter, but when you are looking at a higher contrast scene it is a different matter. Film has probably only 5 stops of dynamic range (-2 to +3) where modern digital have 14-15. If you pick the wrong spot to expose to you could end up with a muddy grey image or crushed shadows/blown highlights. Ansel Adams knew a thing or two with his Zone System. Worth reading his "The Negative" book or online articles on the subject. Perhaps a follow up video Kyle? Keep up the good work!
Cheers, David. I did talk about that briefly in the image example section, with the backlit scene vs the flat scene. And yes, Ansel Adam’s work is great to read up on to learn more about this. It was a huge help for me.
@@KyleMcDougall You did mention it, thanks. I found your other videos invaluable when I started film photography again, like some of the Route 66 experiences and push/pull film stock examples. For one reason alone, what is an example of a middle grey area in a composition! I realised I was likely pitching the wrong areas as a zone 5 as a lot of my early images ended up with muddy shadows! So thank you 🙏
What do you mean with that film only has 5 stops of dynamic range? I thought it was more like around 13, with way smoother highlight rolloff than digital in general? Interesting. Regarding the video I however think Kyle got what you ask for pretty clearly with his examples and descriptions about it, without maybe focusing on calling it mid grey. To be honest, if one need tips on meter readings and want to learn more about it I think using mid grey as a term tend to confuse things more than it helps. What in an image do you decide as mid grey, hence your exposure reference point, if you're not educated about it? I'm always interested in learning more to have better control over my exposures and even if I knew most things said in this video I thought it was very well explained. Cheers!
@@christofferpaavilainen5298 I seemed to have annoyed you with my comments? I would like to know which film stock you mention with 13 stops of range, I'll buy some. The Zone system has 10 stops but 2 are pure white/black and 2 are texture based. Adams designed the system to allow for shadow exposure in camera and setting highlight levels in the developing process to achieve such range. Thank you for helping with my education 🙂
Hopefully by now you’ve learned that film can record much more than five stops of tones. Leaving aside slide film, we’re typically looking at 14 to 17 stops that film can record and differentiate I.e. show detail in, depending on the particular film.
I have two Miranda Sensomat 35mms. One is the camera I learned on and I still use both. The meter is merely a needle on the right side of the viewfinder that you center after clicking the stop down button that activates it. You center the needle between + or -. I like to overexpose a stop anyway by rating my film a stop below box speed. Sometimes I also err on having the needle a touch under the + symbol. One camera's meter is way off to the point of being broken, so I use the Lightmeter at night or shoot Sunny 16. I get good results.
Well, I got used to looking for the last dark area in my scene that I want to have detail in my photo (I only shoot black and white film), I take the measurement and close two stops. That way I put that measurement in zone 3. The images usually turn out really well. If I have to measure a scene with predominantly white, I open two stops. It almost never fails. I do it with the internal meter in 35mm and with the spot meter in medium format.
Great video, very informative! At the risk of sounding like a complete amateur, when you talked about cheating your meter, did you say you can change the ISO selector for each shot if you want to, to adjust the exposure stops up or down?? I have never ever done this and may have realised I've been shooting film wrong for years
Great stuff! Do you usually meter for the shadows? Do you use the Sunny 16 rule sometimes or only internal/external meters? Would love to see a video on Sunny 16. Personally, I often use Sunny 16 as a benchmark or metering when I have my meterless camera...
When taking your shots after sorting the in camera metre, do you usually mess with both aperture and shutter or mainly just one? Great vid I learnt a lot :)
It all depends on the scene and how I’m using the camera. I usually shoot in aperture priority mode, so I’d be changing the shutter speed. For the work I do, the aperture is more important to ensure enough depth of field.
What’s a good way to expose cinestill? I use a Yashica FX3 Super 2000. Ive Shot a roll of HP5 so far and am going to Cologne to shoot some night stuff. Any tips would be helpful. Been w at ching lots of your stuff and it’s super detailed so subbed as a result.
Hey there Kyle, great video and thank you for sharing this valuable info. I have a question though: do you shoot at half box speed AND also expose for the shadows or just one of the two? I’ve been shooting at half box speed on portra400 with my Contax 167 but getting super muddy shadows that needed a lot of editing in LR to be darkened down. Is this normal? Should I have exposed for the shadows instead of relying to the scene reading? Thx
Hi Kyle, thanks for sharing this video. I always get confused, but If I want to over expose a film, so take 400 iso film to 200 iso which is one stop over expose, do you develop as iso 400 or iso 200?
You’d just develop normal as 400 iso. If you developed as 200, you’d be under developing, which would be trying to compensate for the over exposure, which in this scenario you wouldn’t want to do.
Confused on the last bit and would appreciate any clarification: does rating film a stop down (200-->100) on your camera mean that you should shoot with your camera's meter settings for 100 or 200?
If you have a 200 speed film in the camera but you set the ISO to 100, you’re effectively fooling the meter into thinking that the film is less sensitive to light than it actually is. If you’re shooting in Av or you follow the meter in manual mode, you will overexpose the film by 1 stop.
Yep, exactly as Martin said. It’s just a way to get the meter in your camera to give you a reading that’s one stop over exposed (if you set it at 100 but had 200 speed film loaded)
@@MartinNeep Thanks, Martin! So it has no effect on the actual exposure of the film, just the metering? Is there then any point to changing your camera’s ISO down a stop (as I hear people suggest) when you can just meter at 200 then overexpose a stop?
@@orngpeelr9017 Setting the ISO on the camera down a stop should give you an exposure that's overexposed by 1 stop (assuming you're setting the f-stop/shutter to give you a "correct" exposure on the camera's meter). It's just a quick way to overexpose without having to "think" about the change you'd need to the recommended f-stop/shutter.
@@orngpeelr9017 if you trust the meter there’s no reason not to use Aperture/Shutter priority, in which case you use the rating to get the exposure you want. A lot of youtube tutorials concentrate on full manual mode but many/most experienced photographers don’t use it that much.
Very useful tips! How do you meter for night scenes? Spot or incident? I'm still confused on using meter to expose the night scene. Before I got my Sekonic 508, I used the Lux app on my iPhone to meter the light. Although the app is accurate enough in the dark, but I still want to learn the proper process.
It varies for me. Recently, I've been using the Pentax 67ii's centre weighted meter, and then just bumping exposure up by a stop or stop and a half, as well as compensating for reciprocity failure. But with a handheld meter, I'd almost always use the spot function, and focus on the shadow areas where I want to retain detail.
@@KyleMcDougall Great to know your method. Will you use expose average feature on the handheld meter when metering night scenes? I was worried that the exposure range from highlight to shadow can be too great for a negative (or slide film) to handle. Unlike digital, we can use HDR to compensate for that.
With negative film I’ve found that the highlights in things like neon and bright lights hold up really well, even when they’re well over middle grey. So I usually just spot meter for important shadows, and then place those around zone 3.
QUESTION: when i over or under expose a roll at 1 stop, do i tell the lab, or just process as normal? when should i tell the lab to push/pull? thank you!
Depends if your intention was to push or pull the film. But if you say just want to overexpose for the increased density in the shadows, you would just have them develop as normal, and not say anything. Pushing and pulling is compensating for the under or over-exposure.
Are you shooting all color negatives in box speed iso or rating them to 1-2stop low, when you using the metering method at 5:04 when using center-weighted metering mode on Pentax 67II ?
Great video, as always. So, if you're cheating your meter by a full stop (overexposing at 200 vs 400), are you pulling the film in development? Also, do you recommend pulling if you cheat your meter by a full stop as mentioned but add a CPL filter? Thanks.
Nope, just develop normal. The point of overexposing is to record a bit more density on the negative (scene specific). So if you pulled, you'd be trying to offset the over exposure by under-developing, which would defeat the purpose (in this scenario)
Tips for no meter inside? I have a Leica MA And small pocket hot shoe meter I’ll meter But…… Love the challenge Still learning So say I am using Portra 400 And cloudy day Not full clouds Some blue Walking streets Avoid shadow side So more light reflection Not consistent Thank you for the tips
Contax - now that’s a brand that deserves a restart. Loved the RTS / 139/137 and then fell out of love a bit as my attention was drawn to Nikon and Bronica. Last Contax love - RTS 2 - still have Yashica or two but no Connies - shame 😎
Use an 18% grey card for exposure metering! All light meters are designed to "correctly" expose an 18% grey card-that is the universal standard for light meters. If in doubt, point your camera meter at a grey card in the same light as your subject, and your image WILL BE PROPERLY EXPOSED! I promise you! Nearly 55 years of professional photography using an incident light meter (Brockway, Sekonic and Minolta Flashmeters I,III, IV and V) PROVE it! I own a Minolta Spot Meter III and very, very rarely use it except for specialty work, but the batteryless Sekonic L-395 is ALWAYS in my bag, even though it's a half-Century old, it's still accurate! I use it with my digi-cams when the light can trick their meters rather than spray-N'-pray.
At the risk of being a little troll-like here … I think (actually I know) camera meters are (and have been for decades) calibrated for 14% grey, half a stop darker than an 18% grey card. Not a big difference to get worked up about, but it means if you’re metering off a grey card, give an extra half stop of exposure to place it perfectly as middle grey, or “zone V”. A quick test with any digital slr, taking a photo of any flat tone like a grey card using the camera meter, then looking at the histogram, will reveal the histogram spike to be just left of dead centre. By half a stop. To a reflected-light camera meter, the world averages out to 14% grey. I think it’s because the predominance of materials in the real world have an average reflectance if 14%, not 18% as one would automatically assume. Not trolling at all really, you can look this stuff up, honest to God. And try out the histogram experiment.
It is. The RTS is long gone. Sold it after I finished my work in the American west. I hadn’t been shooting much 35. Just recently picked this up. The RTS II is real nice.
Hi Kyle, thanks for the advice! Quick question: I have a pentax k1000, and it uses a needle for its light meter (instead of a digital metering I'm assuming you're referring to at 5:04?). How do I, in this case, still nail the exposure? Thank you!
One way is to "bracket" exposures. Take one photo at the settings the meter tells you, then take a 2nd photo at a slightly faster shutter speed (or more closed aperture), and then take a 3rd photo at a slightly slower shutter speed (or more open aperture).
Sorry, but I will never let my camera meter dictate me the exposure, even if you feel knowing well how the camera works with the different modes ( evaluative, partial, and spot), you are still leaving a bit to luck. You have a very accurate Spotmeter, a $500 tool in your bag.. I really don't understand why you don't use it!! Learn the zone system (simple and easy to learn), get familiar with your film characteristics and here you go. You will have full control (100%) of your exposure. Your results will be more consistent, repeatable, precise, and accurate. I personally shoot with my 35mm camera, the same way I shoot with my Pentax 6x7 camera, or with 6x6 TLR for my landscape photography.I use systematically my tripod, cable release, mirror lock up, etc. My Pentax Spotmeter, and Sekonic Incident meter, one and unique workflow. Slow but I control that part of my time. I will be very very good shot from my roll of film. It even happens that I don't get not even one shot, if the conditions are not there. I would have still enjoyed the moment, and think of coming back another day, but with a better knowledge of the location and it's potentials. Anyway, that's my personal point of view. Said that I still enjoy and like your videos. Continue the good work. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
The spotmeter has become the show off instrument for LF photographer today. Everybody was able to handle a Weston or a Gossen lightmeter for decades. Why are many LF photographers dressed like artistic hippies today? Is it wrong to be dressed like the decent American photographers Irving Penn, Bert Stern, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Richard Avedon, Arthur d'Arazien, Ezra Stoller, Harry Garfield, Philippe Halsman, Joseph Costa and Victor Keppler. Jaco van Lith, Rotterdam The Netherlands
i recently pick up a Contax 139 and wonder if the metering would work good. you took away my fear to use it. Thank you for this great video. Greetings from Germany!🫶🏼
Just remember - the meter in your camera, regardless of averaging or spot - will give you a reading that will produce middle grey. So if you meter snow with a spot meter, that snow would be not white, but middle grey in the neg, and therefore in a print - and everything darker than the snow will also be massively underexposed. and if you under-print to make the snow white, everything else will be muddy grey. So if you then increase contrast in the print to bring a full range of tones to the print, you will end up with a very contrast-y print. To get a full-range negative you must adjust exposure away from the meter reading the appropriate number of stops - ie, for a reading of white snow you must INCREASE exposure by 3 stops; if metering a pile of coal, you will need to DECREASE exposure by 2-3 stops. (Or use an incident meter; it tells you how brightthe light is, regardless of the reflectance of the subject.
Thanks for explaining this because I’ve learned to not trust the operable meter in my F2 and Canon AE-1 (when in manual) since my photos were coming out middle gray.
ae1 IN MANUAL a real masochist.. Never had an issue metering with my f2t..
I picked up an Olympus OM4T recently - because of the meter system it comes with. It has a center weight averaged meter in aperture priority automatic and manual - and now the juicy part: it comes with a built in spot meter that can measure up to 8 spots and average them, holding the measurement in memory. Best metering system in any film camera I've come across.
Oh, wow. That sounds fancy, and impressive!
The Canon T90 has a similar spot metering system, it's really great for shooting slide film!
Works really well, have been daily driving this for a couple of years now.
Olympus glass is very good and quite affordable. Be sure to pick up some lenses while they still are as cheap as right now.
@@akaYu07 Yeah, some of the more rare lenses have already started to reach hefty price tags. I went with the cheap 50mm f1.8, added the 24mm f2.8 and just bought a 50mm f1.4, mainly because I wanted a multi-coated standard lens (the f1.8 is not). I will look for a long lens and then I am pretty much set.
@@weisserth I can recommend the 100mm or 135mm that can be had cheaply. The 85mm is better but more expensive.
Personally I prefer the 90mm f2.
The foggy morning shot is amazing
One trick I typically use is to meter of the palm of my hand. It's fairly close to an average gray which is what those meters are calibrated to and that will usually give me pretty decent results. To be sure you can then overexpose a little, to be on the safe side.
Yep, that's a good one as well. Skin + 1 stop.
@@KyleMcDougall You are right< Kyle, caucasian skin is 2/3 to one stop brighter than 18% gray so I spot below the eye adjust meter there and back button focus. You can use the subjects palm, every race has the same tone of palm to meter and if in the same plane as the face, can focus on it as well
I suspect that it is worth pointing out that the pointing the camera down and taking a reading and setting the camera to the indicated shutter speed and aperture, is only really for manual mode on the camera, if you are using aperture priority automatic mode you can point the camera down and use the exposure lock to lock the meter reading so that when you reframe your image you do not expose back at the meter reading with the sky in it.
Yes, absolutely. Thanks for mentioning that.
That's exactly how I use my RX. Take a spot reading where I need to in AP, then lock out the exposure and re frame
@@paulturner6834 Now you have got me wondering why Contax used AV for aperture priority automatic not AP. Mind you TV for shutter speed priority make no sense to me either.
Jumped on to film to learn the same old ways (a7iii shooter) and I picked up a Nikon FE with a 50mm and a 105mm, thanks for the tips.
What an amazing video, so greatly explained with great examples! Finally someone who takes the time. Thank you!
Greatly appreciate this video man!
Cheers, Sean.
Thanks Kyle I found this helpful.
Happy to hear that. Cheers!
love these tips, im a huge proponent of the meter lock button on the 67ii
Cheers, Wesley. That’s one feature that for some reason I’ve never used. I’ll have to try it out!
Thx Kyle, yes - tilting down when needed is really a good hint!... the Mamiya 7 with its delicate spot metering can sometimes be very tricky if you forget about it when shooting 🙄
Cheers, Thomas!
Oooooh I see the Bronica Etr(si) looking forward to what you think of that!
Coming soon. 🙂
@@KyleMcDougall I have this camera. So def be watching! Hopefully I'll learn something/tips. When I first watched your videos I recognised some of the streets as they were so distinctive. Especially one of a takeaway. Turned out I was right and I was working/living around the town centre. It was so bizarre.
It's my favourite camera! I get a somewhat big negative, the camera is still portable, good lenses. I even bought a second one this year just in case my first one might break at some point. 😋
Nice treatment! Thank you. Sometimes I will meter off an evenly lit darkish grey surface or off the grass. Nikon F90 or my N90s.
Thanks for sharing Kyle, you do great...
Fantastic video thank you!
Every shot I have taken with my Minolta x300 has been at the recommended shutter speed or one speed slower and I have never had a bad exposure with it!
I use The techniques you talk about in this video and I can definitely agree that they work. If I was shooting anything more expensive or less flexible than the stocks I use I would probably be a little bit more wary.
I always check between scenes with the light metre app but it always seems to line up with the Minolta and I've just gone to trust it.
Japanese made in the 80s, You just can't beat that quality.
Minolta make some great cameras. The X-700 is one of my favourites!
@@KyleMcDougall I hope to get one at some point but for now I've got enough cameras to play with 😂
Thanks Kyle. I needed this great tutorial.
Cheers!
Would love to see a follow up video or a segment of one going deeper into explaining more about exposure compensation feature on cameras and how to utilize it as well
I’ll keep that in mind, Sam.
Really useful, practical tips Kyle thanks for this vid!
Cheers, Ted!
Another great video!! Thank you so much for sharing :)
Glad you enjoyed, Danny. Cheers!
Thank you Kyle. It is very on time for me🙏🏻
You’re welcome!
Makes perfect sense.
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON THAT BRONICA ETRSI.. JUST PICKED UP ONE AND CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT YOUR TAKE IS ON IT.
Working on one!
Thanks so much for this, I was looking for this exact advice!
You put out really solid content thank you
Hey Kyle! Any chance of a film exposure test of Ilford FP4? It's a pretty special film, especially in 120. An in the field test during these cold/foggy/snowy months in an English or Welsh forest or lake/farm/country scene would be super rad to see.
I’ll definitely keep that in mind, Michael. It’s one film that I’ve never shot before.
I have heared you can overexpose it by 6 stops :D
Very helpfull video! Thanks
You’re welcome. Cheers!
Interesting video, thanks. It might have been useful to explain more about picking the correct mid grey point in your composition to set the camera's modes to? On a flat day without much difference between shadows and highlights its not going to make much difference where your meter, but when you are looking at a higher contrast scene it is a different matter. Film has probably only 5 stops of dynamic range (-2 to +3) where modern digital have 14-15. If you pick the wrong spot to expose to you could end up with a muddy grey image or crushed shadows/blown highlights. Ansel Adams knew a thing or two with his Zone System. Worth reading his "The Negative" book or online articles on the subject. Perhaps a follow up video Kyle? Keep up the good work!
Cheers, David. I did talk about that briefly in the image example section, with the backlit scene vs the flat scene. And yes, Ansel Adam’s work is great to read up on to learn more about this. It was a huge help for me.
@@KyleMcDougall You did mention it, thanks. I found your other videos invaluable when I started film photography again, like some of the Route 66 experiences and push/pull film stock examples. For one reason alone, what is an example of a middle grey area in a composition! I realised I was likely pitching the wrong areas as a zone 5 as a lot of my early images ended up with muddy shadows! So thank you 🙏
What do you mean with that film only has 5 stops of dynamic range? I thought it was more like around 13, with way smoother highlight rolloff than digital in general? Interesting. Regarding the video I however think Kyle got what you ask for pretty clearly with his examples and descriptions about it, without maybe focusing on calling it mid grey. To be honest, if one need tips on meter readings and want to learn more about it I think using mid grey as a term tend to confuse things more than it helps. What in an image do you decide as mid grey, hence your exposure reference point, if you're not educated about it?
I'm always interested in learning more to have better control over my exposures and even if I knew most things said in this video I thought it was very well explained.
Cheers!
@@christofferpaavilainen5298 I seemed to have annoyed you with my comments? I would like to know which film stock you mention with 13 stops of range, I'll buy some. The Zone system has 10 stops but 2 are pure white/black and 2 are texture based. Adams designed the system to allow for shadow exposure in camera and setting highlight levels in the developing process to achieve such range. Thank you for helping with my education 🙂
Hopefully by now you’ve learned that film can record much more than five stops of tones. Leaving aside slide film, we’re typically looking at 14 to 17 stops that film can record and differentiate I.e. show detail in, depending on the particular film.
I have two Miranda Sensomat 35mms. One is the camera I learned on and I still use both. The meter is merely a needle on the right side of the viewfinder that you center after clicking the stop down button that activates it. You center the needle between + or -. I like to overexpose a stop anyway by rating my film a stop below box speed. Sometimes I also err on having the needle a touch under the + symbol. One camera's meter is way off to the point of being broken, so I use the Lightmeter at night or shoot Sunny 16. I get good results.
Well, I got used to looking for the last dark area in my scene that I want to have detail in my photo (I only shoot black and white film), I take the measurement and close two stops. That way I put that measurement in zone 3. The images usually turn out really well. If I have to measure a scene with predominantly white, I open two stops. It almost never fails. I do it with the internal meter in 35mm and with the spot meter in medium format.
re: 'cheating the meter' - have got great results metering Velvia 50 at 40 ISO and Ektachrome at 80 ISO with the 67ii.
Great video, very informative! At the risk of sounding like a complete amateur, when you talked about cheating your meter, did you say you can change the ISO selector for each shot if you want to, to adjust the exposure stops up or down?? I have never ever done this and may have realised I've been shooting film wrong for years
Cheers for the tips, well explained as always Kyle 👍
You’re welcome!
Ma maaan, jumped straight away after the vid to the manual. Thx
Great stuff! Do you usually meter for the shadows? Do you use the Sunny 16 rule sometimes or only internal/external meters? Would love to see a video on Sunny 16. Personally, I often use Sunny 16 as a benchmark or metering when I have my meterless camera...
I don’t meter for the shadows when I’m using a camera meter. And rarely use the sunny 16 rule. I just prefer to use a meter.
When taking your shots after sorting the in camera metre, do you usually mess with both aperture and shutter or mainly just one? Great vid I learnt a lot :)
It all depends on the scene and how I’m using the camera. I usually shoot in aperture priority mode, so I’d be changing the shutter speed. For the work I do, the aperture is more important to ensure enough depth of field.
What’s a good way to expose cinestill? I use a Yashica FX3 Super 2000. Ive Shot a roll of HP5 so far and am going to Cologne to shoot some night stuff. Any tips would be helpful. Been w at ching lots of your stuff and it’s super detailed so subbed as a result.
Getting notified while searching for a lightmeter lol
Hahaha! "McDougall", what a funny last name! 🤣🤣🤣
Cheers mate
Hey there Kyle, great video and thank you for sharing this valuable info. I have a question though: do you shoot at half box speed AND also expose for the shadows or just one of the two? I’ve been shooting at half box speed on portra400 with my Contax 167 but getting super muddy shadows that needed a lot of editing in LR to be darkened down. Is this normal? Should I have exposed for the shadows instead of relying to the scene reading? Thx
Hi Kyle, thanks for sharing this video. I always get confused, but If I want to over expose a film, so take 400 iso film to 200 iso which is one stop over expose, do you develop as iso 400 or iso 200?
You’d just develop normal as 400 iso. If you developed as 200, you’d be under developing, which would be trying to compensate for the over exposure, which in this scenario you wouldn’t want to do.
@@KyleMcDougallYou are right. makes total sense! Thank you :)
Confused on the last bit and would appreciate any clarification: does rating film a stop down (200-->100) on your camera mean that you should shoot with your camera's meter settings for 100 or 200?
If you have a 200 speed film in the camera but you set the ISO to 100, you’re effectively fooling the meter into thinking that the film is less sensitive to light than it actually is. If you’re shooting in Av or you follow the meter in manual mode, you will overexpose the film by 1 stop.
Yep, exactly as Martin said. It’s just a way to get the meter in your camera to give you a reading that’s one stop over exposed (if you set it at 100 but had 200 speed film loaded)
@@MartinNeep Thanks, Martin! So it has no effect on the actual exposure of the film, just the metering? Is there then any point to changing your camera’s ISO down a stop (as I hear people suggest) when you can just meter at 200 then overexpose a stop?
@@orngpeelr9017 Setting the ISO on the camera down a stop should give you an exposure that's overexposed by 1 stop (assuming you're setting the f-stop/shutter to give you a "correct" exposure on the camera's meter). It's just a quick way to overexpose without having to "think" about the change you'd need to the recommended f-stop/shutter.
@@orngpeelr9017 if you trust the meter there’s no reason not to use Aperture/Shutter priority, in which case you use the rating to get the exposure you want. A lot of youtube tutorials concentrate on full manual mode but many/most experienced photographers don’t use it that much.
Very useful tips! How do you meter for night scenes? Spot or incident? I'm still confused on using meter to expose the night scene. Before I got my Sekonic 508, I used the Lux app on my iPhone to meter the light. Although the app is accurate enough in the dark, but I still want to learn the proper process.
It varies for me. Recently, I've been using the Pentax 67ii's centre weighted meter, and then just bumping exposure up by a stop or stop and a half, as well as compensating for reciprocity failure. But with a handheld meter, I'd almost always use the spot function, and focus on the shadow areas where I want to retain detail.
@@KyleMcDougall Great to know your method. Will you use expose average feature on the handheld meter when metering night scenes? I was worried that the exposure range from highlight to shadow can be too great for a negative (or slide film) to handle. Unlike digital, we can use HDR to compensate for that.
With negative film I’ve found that the highlights in things like neon and bright lights hold up really well, even when they’re well over middle grey. So I usually just spot meter for important shadows, and then place those around zone 3.
@@KyleMcDougall Appreciate for your answer!
Well said :)
Another great video Kyle. Have you tried shooting using the Sunny 16 rule...might be an idea for a video?
Hey Ed, yep, a few times. But would always prefer to use a meter.
thanks , helpful
QUESTION: when i over or under expose a roll at 1 stop, do i tell the lab, or just process as normal? when should i tell the lab to push/pull? thank you!
Depends if your intention was to push or pull the film. But if you say just want to overexpose for the increased density in the shadows, you would just have them develop as normal, and not say anything. Pushing and pulling is compensating for the under or over-exposure.
Shooting in woodlands I have recently tried metering something not in the shot, because I am often shooting high contrast or backlit scenes
On the 67ii, why not just use the spot meter or an average of spot meter readings?
I’ve just been happy with the accuracy of the center weighted mode. But yeah, definitely an option.
Are you shooting all color negatives in box speed iso or rating them to 1-2stop low, when you using the metering method at 5:04 when using center-weighted metering mode on Pentax 67II ?
Great video, as always. So, if you're cheating your meter by a full stop (overexposing at 200 vs 400), are you pulling the film in development? Also, do you recommend pulling if you cheat your meter by a full stop as mentioned but add a CPL filter? Thanks.
Nope, just develop normal. The point of overexposing is to record a bit more density on the negative (scene specific). So if you pulled, you'd be trying to offset the over exposure by under-developing, which would defeat the purpose (in this scenario)
Love my RTS
My favourite!
Tips for no meter inside?
I have a Leica MA
And small pocket hot shoe meter
I’ll meter
But……
Love the challenge
Still learning
So say I am using Portra 400
And cloudy day
Not full clouds
Some blue
Walking streets
Avoid shadow side
So more light reflection
Not consistent
Thank you for the tips
I picked up a sekonic flash master meter at a house clearance auction for £9, made £100 profit, so I like them a lot 😀
whats is the best film stock with the most DR? also how do you normally expose for digital?
Contax - now that’s a brand that deserves a restart. Loved the RTS / 139/137 and then fell out of love a bit as my attention was drawn to Nikon and Bronica. Last Contax love - RTS 2 - still have Yashica or two but no Connies - shame 😎
When you over expose your film by changing the ‘iso’ do you then meter for the shadows?
It would depend on the situation. But generally, no. As mentioned in the video, I just adjust where I meter depending on the lighting and scene.
@@KyleMcDougall I see, thank you 😊
You probably should remove the Lightroom changes you made to your scans because it's telling a different story
Use an 18% grey card for exposure metering! All light meters are designed to "correctly" expose an 18% grey card-that is the universal standard for light meters. If in doubt, point your camera meter at a grey card in the same light as your subject, and your image WILL BE PROPERLY EXPOSED! I promise you! Nearly 55 years of professional photography using an incident light meter (Brockway, Sekonic and Minolta Flashmeters I,III, IV and V) PROVE it! I own a Minolta Spot Meter III and very, very rarely use it except for specialty work, but the batteryless Sekonic L-395 is ALWAYS in my bag, even though it's a half-Century old, it's still accurate! I use it with my digi-cams when the light can trick their meters rather than spray-N'-pray.
At the risk of being a little troll-like here … I think (actually I know) camera meters are (and have been for decades) calibrated for 14% grey, half a stop darker than an 18% grey card.
Not a big difference to get worked up about, but it means if you’re metering off a grey card, give an extra half stop of exposure to place it perfectly as middle grey, or “zone V”.
A quick test with any digital slr, taking a photo of any flat tone like a grey card using the camera meter, then looking at the histogram, will reveal the histogram spike to be just left of dead centre. By half a stop.
To a reflected-light camera meter, the world averages out to 14% grey.
I think it’s because the predominance of materials in the real world have an average reflectance if 14%, not 18% as one would automatically assume.
Not trolling at all really, you can look this stuff up, honest to God. And try out the histogram experiment.
Hey Kyle that's an RTS ii Quartz.... what happened to the RTS?
It is. The RTS is long gone. Sold it after I finished my work in the American west. I hadn’t been shooting much 35. Just recently picked this up. The RTS II is real nice.
@@KyleMcDougall Yup... the quartz metering system in the RTS ii is great.
Did you get rid of your 139?
Nope. Still have it. Just have the RTS II as well.
Hey where were most of these photos taken?
Which ones in particular? Most were in England.
@@KyleMcDougall the one with the phone box. I could tell it was England just not sure exactly where🤣
Oh, haha. That was dungeness!
How many likes to get you on a plane with Mike?
😂 Likes aren’t gonna cut it!
@@KyleMcDougall He also said he’d sing Celine Dion and would donate his NFT earnings because you’re a beautiful man.
Make it Nickelback and we have a deal.
@@KyleMcDougall Deal. 🎵 Look at these photographs 🎵
Hi Kyle, thanks for the advice! Quick question: I have a pentax k1000, and it uses a needle for its light meter (instead of a digital metering I'm assuming you're referring to at 5:04?). How do I, in this case, still nail the exposure? Thank you!
One way is to "bracket" exposures. Take one photo at the settings the meter tells you, then take a 2nd photo at a slightly faster shutter speed (or more closed aperture), and then take a 3rd photo at a slightly slower shutter speed (or more open aperture).
nice of you to think i can afford cameras with working lightmeters
Lots of cheap options out there. 🙏
Umm know the metering patern of your camera.. use a grey card or 18 percent reflective surface.. eASY..
Sorry, but I will never let my camera meter dictate me the exposure, even if you feel knowing well how the camera works with the different modes ( evaluative, partial, and spot), you are still leaving a bit to luck. You have a very accurate Spotmeter, a $500 tool in your bag.. I really don't understand why you don't use it!! Learn the zone system (simple and easy to learn), get familiar with your film characteristics and here you go. You will have full control (100%) of your exposure. Your results will be more consistent, repeatable, precise, and accurate. I personally shoot with my 35mm camera, the same way I shoot with my Pentax 6x7 camera, or with 6x6 TLR for my landscape photography.I use systematically my tripod, cable release, mirror lock up, etc. My Pentax Spotmeter, and Sekonic Incident meter, one and unique workflow. Slow but I control that part of my time. I will be very very good shot from my roll of film. It even happens that I don't get not even one shot, if the conditions are not there. I would have still enjoyed the moment, and think of coming back another day, but with a better knowledge of the location and it's potentials. Anyway, that's my personal point of view. Said that I still enjoy and like your videos. Continue the good work. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
The spotmeter has become the show off instrument for LF photographer today.
Everybody was able to handle a Weston or a Gossen lightmeter for decades.
Why are many LF photographers dressed like artistic hippies today?
Is it wrong to be dressed like the decent American photographers Irving Penn,
Bert Stern, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Richard Avedon, Arthur d'Arazien, Ezra Stoller,
Harry Garfield, Philippe Halsman, Joseph Costa and Victor Keppler.
Jaco van Lith, Rotterdam The Netherlands
Really strange comment. I've never met someone who bought a spot meter to show off. It also shouldn't matter how anyone dresses.
i recently pick up a Contax 139 and wonder if the metering would work good. you took away my fear to use it. Thank you for this great video.
Greetings from Germany!🫶🏼
Yep, the meters in most of the Contax SLR's that I've used have been great.
How many likes to get you on a plane with Mike?
10,000!