BillyBobBoobHead many if not most republicans don't agree with Thomas Sowell either. You be surprised how people on both sides don't know much of economics
+vertigo0331 It's been OVER 25 years. The experiment is a failure in real-time and real practice. But liberals/commies/socialists/progressives/whatever-you-want-to-call-them... Will always say it needs more time, funding, etc, as DR. SOWELL said.
+heruartist71 Of course it is designed not to work. If it worked, the branch of the government that was dealing with the problem would be out of the job. It is 99+% of todays economical problems: Conflict of Interest. This is something youd get fired for in any private enterprise instantly (no wonder it does not apply to public institutions). Please bear in mind that the views of Mr. Sowell do not magically fix the world, its just better than the alternative (what we have now).
+vertigo0331 NOOOOO He talks so damn slow. Its like that time I passed through Georgia and had to get gas... took me 2 hours to slide my debit card cause the guy at the register talked like this guy.
The left wing Economics Professor Robert Lekachman is here on record stating - in answer to a challenge of defining 'temporal units' - how long his policy of so called 'positive' discrimination needed to work. Here from 1983, he said "about 20 to 25 years". We've now had 37. And it still hasn't worked. His ideas were debunked by Thomas Sowell in 1983. Thomas Sowell is still spot on today.
Lol you’re an idiot, we haven’t had 20-25 years of affirmative action because morons like you have been fighting progress along the way. You can try and sound elegant or sophisticated but in the end, you’re just a dumbass.
@@malek8209 Oh, but you've had affirmative action. Just look at what it did to universities where it was implemented by well-meaning useful idiots like yourself (not trying to insult here, but there's no politically correct version of the term as far as I know). Berkeley, DePaul, Evergreen and Oberlin spring to mind.
@@nikolaneberemed If affirmative action meant equal opportunity for all than I am all for it but it doesn't mean that. It means accept those into your school who don't meet your requirements but meet our skin color quotas. Not everyone is qualified to get into Harvard, Berkley, Johns Hopkins, Yale, - Evergreen is a shit hole now, who wants to go there - Cambridge. If you can't get into one of the Ivy league, and few do, go for a State college, you will get a very good education there, the Diploma won't be as impressive but it will show that you did the work and graduated. To me Affirmative Action means this:: You are a looser and will always be a looser, you can't succeed without my help and you will always need my help through out your life. That's' more degrading than before Affirmative Action. Then people may have called you a looser but you different and proved it by your actions, Affirmative Action prevents that, in my honest opinion. Take care and have a good day. I am 65 and grew up when this was just starting and the school I went to, the blacks there worked hard and didn't get into the school because they were black. The School - Wheeling Colleg, a Jesuit institution.
Malek Masri Sri Lanka, Malaysia all had some form of affirmative action. It doesn’t show any significance in social mobility. I’m not against affirmative action, I just think it’s disingenuous to claim that it will improve social mobility. What it is, is a tool for politician to gain votes from minority. The real message behind affirmative action is: we will sacrifice the small minority who were rejected because of affirmative action to gain votes from minorities who benefit from that. Meanwhile, economists will debate endlessly, because that’s what academia is, while politicians go through their papers to look for another way to gain more votes.
Liberals always take advantage of the weak to make themselves feel better, acting like the are on the moral higher ground. Meanwhile knowing fully well all they are doing is maintaining the down trodden to remain down
@@MeMe-vm4lh While I do agree in part, the left (which now needs to be distinguished from liberals) is ignorant, and willfully so, to the reasons why they "feel" and do what it is they do. The ideals they hold are based off of a shallow understanding of the "problems" they are trying to fix. The fact that they don't care to look critically at these ideals or the problems tells a lot about the person. They are just weak or ignorant people allowing themselves through lazy thinking and emotional currency to be led around like cattle (that's why so many have the nose rings lol). I think the general population on the left actually thinks (lazily and wrongfully so as is proven in many debates/talks) they are doing something good for the down trodden - not including the upper level political and social leaders of the left, they know what they are doing. The problem is how do you get these people to come out of their stupor and even want to realize the truth in the matter? That they have been idealistically/intellectually lazy and used as a tool for an agenda (no one want's to admit when they are wrong or wants to believe they are being used because of their inadequacies)?? I don't think that can be done by external forces... it has to be done by either time/experience (some it may take half a century if even then) or a want by the person themselves to see otherwise they will push back against the onslaught of Truth that is attacking their perspectives.
@@kingdomcome1617 The Left worldview involves the simplistic view that Man is inherently good, but paradoxically his goodness has established institutions that are selfish and vile, resulting in inequality of results. As a result, there are faultless victims and evil perpetrators. I'm reminded of perfect Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and along comes a wicked serpent bent on suckering them to their doom. There is no Free Will, no consequences, no dumb mistakes, no differences in maturity, no differences in levels of compulsion or self-control, no karma, no smart people or stupid fools, no driven or laid-back folks, no accidents in the womb or outside... just some evil capitalist out to screw you. You can't use reason when you see life through this Marxist lens of fantasy. But you can become the self-righteous Zealot.
@@kingdomcome1617 Why should the left be distinguished from liberals? If Conservatives now are what liberals used to be, then why not call yourself a proud Conservative? The answer is simply because you're a coward. You're afraid of what people would think about you and do to you if you called yourself a Conservative.
Back then liberals were not as daring as they are now. Today on CNBC Sowell would be called an Uncle Tom to his face by a white Socialist reporter and there would be applause all around.
I grew up a Liberal Democrat from New York and I agree wholeheartedly. Thomas is brilliant, but twenty years ago I would have called him an oreo. I am glad I don't use any of those idiotic racist labels anymore.
+Mo Overall Fitness Hacks How the paradigm has shifted, where emotional subjective lunacy has taken over from rationality, reason and objectivity. We are going down a very dangerous road!
I'd argue that, with these many years of evidence piling up on against these collectivist policies, civil debates are much harder. The leftists must resort to emotional arguments because facts are so heavily against them.
+Anogoya Dagaati Yup.. its what makes Sowell a level headed man, someone to be respected if you like truth, and someone to be feared if you are a propagandist. I started reading him 30+ years ago and he has always struck me the same.. level headed, a tenacious truth teller, unflinchingly hones in on the flaws in an argument. In short, someone who I immensely respect.
smith lovy The fuck are you on about he was 100% correct. As women started becoming educated and joining the workforce at rates comparable to men, the birth rate went down. It's also easier than ever to raise kids and run a household in the modern era thanks to technology.
smith lovy r u insane lol 23 senators because of cultural divergence he said this exactly in the whole video watch it , he said precisely that things change depending on cultutr n ethos etc lol ur very base if thats all u took from sowell qualitative n quantative data ahaggagahhaha
@smith lovy If there's two runners, one is faster than the other competing for one spot. Is it more efficient to hire the slower runner in the name of social balance or is it better to hire the faster runner regardless of his historical background? www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07/look-data-and-arguments-about-asian-americans-and-admissions-elite This article summarise the data from Universities. Black and Latino students have advantage over Asian students. While these students are in no way unqualified for universities, it is simply the case of the bell curve. AA actively destroys the model of the bell curve by filtering through racial profiling. I'm not saying AA is, "bad". I'm saying in terms of economic which prioritise efficiency above all else, AA benefits to efficiency is not entirely justified as the late professor have iterated, rather it is based on emotion.
@smith lovy The stop watch. They don't place disadvantageous countries athletes in front do they? If you want the "playing field is level", is it better to improve the minority condition before pitting them against others or is it better to give them a head start in the race? The important question is does the outcome the university wants with AA justified? Social justice for historical oppressed minority, racial diverse campus to facilitate understanding and improved learning. These are the reasons put forward to defend AA in terms of outcome and not principle i.e. does university as an institution or business has the right to profile its students or customers based on their racial background. The former needs empirical data to justified such as: how has increase minority in top university impact their community and prosperity and how has improved racial ratio improve learning outcome for students. As for the latter, I think it is acceptable for institution to discriminate but also all businesses and institutions should be allowed to make decisions based on background of its customers. As for the bell curve, it refers to the normal distribution of many things: IQ, income distribution, university grading system, SAT scores and of course: www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299. There's no fairness, we are all part of the normal distribution, one way or another. Before calling it rubbish, address or discuss the ideas. Getting defensive is not helpful to the discussion.
@smith lovy Who are you ? Why are you talking as if you are a scholar or someone important we have to obtain permission to have a conversation on the internet. "IQ", the centre piece of your argument that aims to insult and undermine credibility instead of presenting a case and use evidence as support is very disappointing. IQ is one useful metric in determination of future success as with income and other metrics whose distribution is, normal. There will always be people with advantage over others one way or another. Interestingly I'm not even referring to IQ differences in races nor races in any context. You seems to be more interested in racial argument than: what's the best tool for the job? For me the matter at hands is a problem that AA is limiting the best tool from landing at where it should be. You are trying to enforce equality, which is another subject entirely. There will be no equality in our society. It is impossible, people are different. An example, a black student from rich family will have advantage over poor people from any races in the race to university. There will always be disparity. If you want absolute equality, I can't have a conversation regarding AA with you simply due to the language I adhere to is strictly of economic nature in which we accept factors like inequality and such as a part of our equation. I'll digress a little and muse with your "honest truth" a little. In your perfect society, when children are born, they should be shipped to a nurturing unit which is designed to train the students and create the best and brightest and then place them accordingly to their ability, separated from any sources of influences, as white as paper. I think you can find it in "The Giver". The solution could be complicated but it should not be patronising as it is now. The solution should be inspiring minority students that school is a pathway to success. Interestingly, go and read up on other minorities in South East Asia such as those in Sri Lanka and Malaysia. If you can put races aside, how difficult it might be when African migrants who made up 50% of the black attending Ivy League had to be mentioned, minorities can achieve very good result if they enjoy a culture that promotes those values. You can even dive deeper and see that African migrants come from better background or model students who have come to the US on scholarship which helps a lot with motivation and character strength whereas Asians are made up of many refugees. They used to be a lot worse than they are now. But that's just my conjecture, pointing it out, nothing to do with AA. If West African can become higher achievers, why are other minorities in the US struggle? Perhaps what the parents are telling their children has something to do with it?
smith lovy "Disproved" in the world of a socialist lunatic means "Factual statement that goes against my narrative." The Bell Curve was never disproved. IQ today is the best predictor for socioeconomic success.
smith lovy "The way to right wrongs of the past is with social engineering" And yet 55 years of AA has made 0 progress for the black community. In fact, they are worse off now than they were before AA. You have no facts on your side. You have nothing.
Make Harvard all black through AA, then break out your popcorn and observe the 95% dropout rate based solely on academic difficulty. There wouldn't be any whites to "oppress" them, yet they would still fail. Then with an unfinished degree, watch them try and pay off the student debt amounting to that of a mid-size home. They will be in debt forever.
Brian Givens i had a hypothesis that these sorts programs were made to hurt minorities. government husband instead of a human, abortion rates, sex “resources”...
"how quickly do you expect the changes?" (Asking in reference to the Question asked by Thomas Sowell, about burden of proof lies with him and his constituents for justifying Affirmative action) It is now 2015. 33 years... I expect them by now.
It's hard to listen to him, but he's a genuinely pleasant person. He is evasive, but he entertains properly while he does. A little self-deprecating sarcastic humour in good taste. Of course, Thomas Sowell gets him on every question, but he is very graceful in his admission of defeat. This was truly a greater time for rational discussion
I almost got the sense that he was trolling, as though he knew damn well his arguments were facile, as though his ulterior motive was to make the opposition to Sowell appear feeble.
@@Sky-pg6xy Well yes but it's been increasingly obvious that leftist ideas in general aren't supported by facts, but more-so by emotion. - John Adams whilst feeding my neopets
I have to say that Professor Robert Lekachman is one of the most, if not the most pleasant person I have listened to defending affirmative action. Give props to him for giving thoughtful arguments and being respectful, unlike the people of his position today.
D Hend well I guess it could be said that the white guy did you use intelligent sounding words while he squirmed around and avoided every issue and question. And when he lied he used Pleasant humor to cover up the fact that he had no excuse for them. On the other hand I really like the way mr.Sowell kept spanking his ass... and yes. He was nice about it
They do it all the time actually, just not frankly. "Empirical evidence doesn't matter", "what do you think of so and so", "just like you I take notice to the automobile industry", "25 years is the magical number", "I'll wait for you if you wait for me" etc...
Sowell was low key calling out the other guy tho. Just more sounding more distinguished. Like Sowell said, "I have yet to see any evidence. And I cannot even find anything in ur books. Which I have read." I'm paraphrasing. Lol but it was still way more classy then saying an ad hominem. Imo Sowell was basically saying, u have no evidence therefore u have no argument. Done.
Duy Linh Chu Ha, the funny thing is the left guy was wrong about the cars as well. The US got decimated through the 80s and 90s due to selling junk cars for too much and the Japanese and Koreans swooped in and sold better cars for less. So the “price fixing” he complained about was solved by the market.
That's right no one wants the FBI showing up at the door or a US Marine corps division invading the neighborhood. Like when Reagan sent in the cops giving them permission to kill at People Park. Then declaring an emergency sending in national guard troops to occupy the city of Berkeley.
Lekachman is saying that social clubs, such as golf clubs, that are selective as to who they let in as members, are employing a form of affirmative action. Gosh the very fact that this is brought up as an argument by Professor Lekachman reveals how incredibly weak and quite frankly desperate his position on Affirmative Action is. Sowell raised a brilliant point I've never heard before. Why is the onus of proof on those who oppose AA? This is just opposing common sense really. When an idea is proposed the onus is on the proposers to prove the validity of that idea. And yet this is reversed when it comes to AA.
***** If someone told you that a teapot, and not the moon, was manipulating the Earth's tidal motions; would you entertain them or would you dismiss them outright?
***** Ah, so you'd ask him to cite sources, authorities, and experts? If so, then it DOES come down to the validity, soundness, and plausibility of arguments. In civil & criminal law, there is a 'burden of proof' that generally must be established by the plaintiff (the one who has a complaint) in order that the suit continue. Moreover, if this were decided by common law, a judge would throw it out on grounds of reasonableness. To use the same example, if someone suggested in an argument that a teapot was manipulating the Earth's tidal motions, that notion would be immediately dismissed. There is a 'reasonable person' standard as well - which means things are compared to what a 'reasonable person' would do in the same situation. I think the most reasonable course of action is what Prof. Sowell is suggesting & what civil & criminal law would have, that the one who has a complaint, bears the burden of proof.
***** Indeed. You explained it well. A reasonable argument FIRST needs to be presented and THEN a counter given. In the case of AA proponents, as Sowell points out, the expectation is that a counter first be given. Which is just ridiculous and indicative of unscrupulous motivations behind an already weak argument.
+Ty Guy Logic is content neutral. You should be more persuaded by understanding of assumptions. David Hume is great at presuming arguments then pointing out what is wrong with the asumptions that give life to those arguments. Those tools are timeless.
Wow... so good. I guess we've seen the 25 year period end and we know who was right and who was wrong. Lol: Marxist: "I see less of that evidence that you do.".. Sowell: "I believe that. I've been asking for you to cite some of that evidence for some time, and you can't seem to find any to the contrary."... Greatness!
thomas sowell.......must be nice to always be the smartest man in the room! much respect for this man!!! how many black people know the names of al sharpton or jesse jackson, but don't know the name thomas sowell? just a god damn shame!
You know, I don't think it's really even an issue of who's smarter. It's just a matter of who is more well studied. And when it comes to having closely examined hard evidence, no one beats Sowell.
I'm fascinated by these Tom Sowell and Milton Friedman videos, so glad I found them. They both speak so well, and without any histrionics or feeling of superiority, they completely dismantle the fallacies that are perpetuated by the left. It's a masterclass in drawing logical conclusions from evidence (both empirical and historic) and using that to respectfully inform the other side of how wrong they are.
Even now at the tender age of 90, he's still sharp as a samurai sword. The way Dr. sowell passes on his thoughts and knowledge is so simple, coherent and on point. Now and then.
I'd like to point out how lovely it is that people from opposite sides of an argument can speak so calmly and chuckle with each other, even tease each other. Aside from humorous teasing, there was no name-calling or the like. It is also interesting that the Jewish professor was advocating FOR affirmative action and the Black (retired) professor was advocating against. A wonderful example of people thinking without identity politics.
I can see why this show drew an audience. Insightful, intelligent, thought provoking and sometimes, given the wit of the guests such as Lekachman and Sowell, funny as hell.
Had this man been on O'Reilly, he'd hardly get a few words off. It's excellent and reassuring to see that there was once a forum in which these two contrasting ideologies could maintain a civilized, formal discussion without rude interruptions from either side and include an opportunity for its viewers to educate themselves on the contents of both arguments without such interruption. Excellent video.
I have been a fan of Thomas Sowell since I was around 17 years old and I would read articles he had written and which were carried by the local newspaper. I’m 61 years old now and my admiration for him has never wavered. He is a man I often suggest to others that they should look to for sound reasoning in understanding what some of the solutions which should be applied to the problems we are now facing. He explained what would happen if we as a country continued down a path of liberal policies. He has been proven to be correct. Here he even points out how liberals always shift the blame when their policies fail and or claim they just need more time and money. It’s never enough….
That last question from the left-wing professor is so revealing. Taking from the rich to give to the poor is one thing, but to take from the rich to give to the middle is just selfishness on the part of the middle.
Dr Thomas Sowell is smiling ear to ear today ! Happy Birthday Dr Sowell !!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 "When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination. " Dr Thomas Sowell
7:40 Your 20 to 25 years is up, Professor Lekachman. So, where's the evidence? I'm sure if he was alive today, this "sufficient period" would still be ongoing.
I'd say we should judge people on the content of their character, not on the color of their skin. And refuse to allow any law to be passed, federal, state, or local, that discriminates or treats people preferentially on the basis of their ethnicity. But I guess that makes me a right-wing bigot...
11:20 "It's also true that after the war there were 9% black teenagers unemployed. Now that figures more like 40% and that's with 40 years of progress under your system" Mic drop right there!
That minute when Buckley shuts down the opposition with such class and finesse it doesn't hit you until 3 seconds after the statement. Also, Sowell is absolutely brilliant, we need more black economist and writers like him.
After watching this it’s obvious the timeframe that he gave 20 to 25 years has been exceeded and things have not improved . I believe Thomas Sowell’s statements of rebuttal were correct and are now well established
I love Thomas Sowell. So intelligent, articulate, and not afraid to be confrontational in a polite manner. I’d vote for him for president in a heart beat!!!!
By creating government funded busy work to artificially reduce the unemployment rate, we will need a larger tax base to support it. This extra taxation will invariably fall on business owners and people employed in the private sector. The remaining work force available to entrepreneurs will be increasingly made up of the indolent and unemployable. How could this possibly encourage the economy to flourish? Wouldn't this result in exactly the sort of entrepreneurial flight to Asia and elsewhere we've seen over the last two decades?
Yes it would, and the elites know this. This was always one of the intended goals. They need to tear down the West in order to implement their global control scheme.
The left: I’ve got a fantastic way to fix the problems the government created. Yet another government program! It’s so simple! The rest of us: **facepalm**
Kim O'Brien because that worked _so_ well in Russia, China, Cuba, Germany, Venezuela, Vietnam, Italy, Japan, North Korea, Brazil, and so many others. Only a few hundred million dead bodies and counting. What a great system! Please, do humanity a big favor and move to one of those non-capitalist “paradises”. I’ll give you a week before you’d be begging to come back to America. If it were up to me, I’d give your spot to a deserving person on the immigration waitlist the literal _second_ you left. There are people fleeing the systems you advocate just begging to come here. Some of them come on “boats” made of literal garbage because they had nothing else. But _you_ know better, right?
@@Nicholas_Terry Cuban immigrants love freedom and capitalism because they understand what life is like without it. BLM in my town tried to extort them for "reparations" and they refused and started a peaceful protest. I don't want them to ever lose freedom again and I support them 100%
@@Nicholas_Terry The quickest biggest death rate was during WW2 80 million dead in 6 years. Neither Stalin nor Mao could ever match that.The US wanted the big death rates and highest kill ratios in Vietnam and now since Jimmy 'Human Rights" Carter they claim to be a bastion of "Human Rights". Carter was the one who's regime allong with the UK took the side of Pol Pot a genocidal maniac at the UN provided him with arms via the Royal Dictatorship of Thailand.
These videos need to be streamed in our schools. It is frightening the realization that I am only hearing such arguments in my 30's. The emperor wears no clothes. . . .
Fun fact to those pointing out when the professor said he wanted 25 years to test affirmative action; Sandra Day O'Connor wrote the majority opinion of Grutter v Bollinger in 2003 (upholding affirmative action) and there she said "the Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today."
+L.M IKR? Its crazy how far our society has devolved in terms of logic and rational discussion. Compare this to Megyn Kelly on fox news or one of those msnbc shows
Let’s wait 25 years to see if it works….. that way I’ll be dead and no one will remember this conversation ever occurred…. And my arguments can be re-used as if they were never tried before…
I mean really, my god Sowell is sharp. It`s not that I am new to the economics or those ideas, it`s quite the contrary, but the way he responds and delivers his message is just astonishing. It`s so pure and at the same time done with such a class. Really impressive.
Similar story for me. I read his "Basic Economics" book in graduate school and it changed my life. Since then, I've probably read a half dozen of his other books and books by additional authors such as Hayek, Rothbard and Hazlitt. It's good stuff.
It's the biggest red pill you can give yourself. Basic Economics followed by Manufacturing Consent, then topped off by Atlas Shrugged you're ready to start rebuilding your view of political economy.
Wow, I’m 22 and I’ve never seen such educated people have such a civil debate; smiling, joking, laughing… I’m so interested in these intellectual settings from the mid-20th Century. Both sides are patient and respectful with each other. One may be more correct over the other but always so respectful and objective; never personal. I’ve grown used to non-professional, average every day people getting offended in Twitter threads, who use their hurt feelings as evidence for their point, arguing mindlessly in the comments, making fools of themselves, never to meet their “opponents” face to face. This older stuff is truly the best! There’s actually room to breathe and understand. Sigh…
In 1983 I was experiencing a great deal of unemployment. It was a very difficult time in my youth, I would make visits to the state employment agency to see what jobs were available etc...One day while at the agency I was waiting to be interviewed by the VA rep whose job it was to assist veteran's who were elgible to receive such help ect. My name was finally called, I went to his cubical area where he sat, the VA rep had an assistant working with him, they both were black and so was I. I thought to myself 3 brotha's, hell, this must be my lucky day! I was given a referral card with the name of the company, address, phone number and who to see etc.. The rep's took a look at me said " this company is looking to hire some blacks etc..we think you'll do well " They instructed me to wear a shirt, tie and jacket etc...I assured them that I would. I went to the interview lookin" sharp, filled out the application using my BEST penmenship etc..In walks the man who would be conducting the interview. He too was black....like me I thought to myself " I got this in the bag." This brotha is going to hook me up with a J. O. B. !! After 2 interviews I didn't get the job. How disappointed and painful it felt. It was a very hard and painful lesson to learn. Looking back, it was a very valuable lesson to LEARN, the man who interviewed me didn't OWE me anything because I was black,nor did the company. His obligation was to hire the applicant that would be most beneficial to the company's needs etc....and not to fill a quota. Affirmative action isn't beneficial to NO ONE. It does several things; it hires those who aren't qualified or under qualified, it sends the wrong message to minorities that they're owed something due to past wrongs etc...and those that are qualified for the position get past over. That's wrong.
If this is the case shouldn't ivy league Universities like Harvard end legacy admissions and tackle nepotism? Heck doesn't it make sense to work towards the elimination of elitism in education full stop because we all know that admissions to Universities like Harvard are rooted in the way children are groomed and educated which automatically creates a bias for the rich who have all the resources in the world to invest in their childrens future. It's not a level playing field yet people want to pretend that it's a meritocracy and the smartest & best rise to the top. Work towards society being a meritocracy rather than favouring a well monied elite.
By the way Affirmative action policies shouldn't resort to quotas, that's just a race to the bottom is so obviously flawed and redundant that I wonder if that was intention in the first place.
Thomas Sowell is a very welcome oasis in a desert of insanity. Shame his message is only becoming more mainstream as the man is in his 90s. Delightful man, brilliant mind
I was pleastantly surprised by this video. this guy is like the Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson of the Economics world. And did anyone else want to claw their ears out when the white guy did that hesitational pause thing towards the break in his sentences?
+tank2003 The white guy opposite Sowell was doing the leftist 'sneer' that was acceptable in the 70s. That "sneer" has currently turned into outright character assassination by folks on the left. Its never about answering the questions or getting to root causes, its about avoiding them and then sneering about the idiots asking the questions. The endgame though is always the exact same thing.. government uber alles.
R King Sneer. I'll have to use that. The left is all about deflecting nowadays. Deflecting, Vague and generic "apologies" and lumping mass groups together and warping facts and data to further their platform
I love this! A genuine debate with people that have very different opinions, but they're not bickering, arguing, talking over one another, or calling each other names. If people behaved like this today, we might actually learn something
meh... I don't think Obama is of a Kenyan birth.... But I agree.... what if the first man of color as president was someone like Sowell... so much potential healing...
At 7:43, in response to Dr. Sowell's question about how long it would take for affirmative action to yield results, the progressive gentleman says, "20 to 25 years would be a reasonable period" This was recorded *40 years ago* and *that* was 15 years after the Civil Rights Acts were passed.
I wish someone would put up every episode of Firing Line online where we can view them. The subject matter touches almost always on current events even though they were produced more than 30 years ago for the most part.
an affirmative action president. 10 trillion in additional debt, assassination of american citizens. we have been at this for close to 50 years - 25 years longer than was suggested in this video. all races in america are capable of standing on their own. Sowell is a genius
I wish debate was still like this. Everyones calm, respectful, no identity politics or outrage hyperbole. just measured points. the moderator looks incredibly comfortable, adds only a few comments... just so classy. Why are people so much worse today?
I think time has proven Thomas Sowell's pov to be correct.
very much so
BillyBobBoobHead many if not most republicans don't agree with Thomas Sowell either. You be surprised how people on both sides don't know much of economics
The evidence for affirmative action working is White people's success.
youtube.[com]/watch?v=6uH0vpGZJCo
Nelson Smith I agree!
Sowell was way ahead of us in so many of his ideas
"Well how quickly do you expect the changes?" 40 years after this debate, shit is just getting worse.
+vertigo0331 Don't like some of the editting of the video. I would have liked to hear more of the responses from Dr Slow Mo.
+vertigo0331 Mr slow mo lol +1
+vertigo0331 It's been OVER 25 years.
The experiment is a failure in real-time and real practice.
But liberals/commies/socialists/progressives/whatever-you-want-to-call-them...
Will always say it needs more time, funding, etc, as DR. SOWELL said.
+heruartist71 Of course it is designed not to work.
If it worked, the branch of the government that was dealing with the problem would be out of the job.
It is 99+% of todays economical problems: Conflict of Interest. This is something youd get fired for in any private enterprise instantly (no wonder it does not apply to public institutions).
Please bear in mind that the views of Mr. Sowell do not magically fix the world, its just better than the alternative (what we have now).
+vertigo0331 NOOOOO He talks so damn slow. Its like that time I passed through Georgia and had to get gas... took me 2 hours to slide my debit card cause the guy at the register talked like this guy.
The left wing Economics Professor Robert Lekachman is here on record stating - in answer to a challenge of defining 'temporal units' - how long his policy of so called 'positive' discrimination needed to work. Here from 1983, he said "about 20 to 25 years". We've now had 37. And it still hasn't worked. His ideas were debunked by Thomas Sowell in 1983. Thomas Sowell is still spot on today.
Lol you’re an idiot, we haven’t had 20-25 years of affirmative action because morons like you have been fighting progress along the way. You can try and sound elegant or sophisticated but in the end, you’re just a dumbass.
@@malek8209 Name calling. So intelligently mature.
@@malek8209 Oh, but you've had affirmative action. Just look at what it did to universities where it was implemented by well-meaning useful idiots like yourself (not trying to insult here, but there's no politically correct version of the term as far as I know). Berkeley, DePaul, Evergreen and Oberlin spring to mind.
@@nikolaneberemed If affirmative action meant equal opportunity for all than I am all for it but it doesn't mean that. It means accept those into your school who don't meet your requirements but meet our skin color quotas. Not everyone is qualified to get into Harvard, Berkley, Johns Hopkins, Yale, - Evergreen is a shit hole now, who wants to go there - Cambridge. If you can't get into one of the Ivy league, and few do, go for a State college, you will get a very good education there, the Diploma won't be as impressive but it will show that you did the work and graduated. To me Affirmative Action means this::
You are a looser and will always be a looser, you can't succeed without my help and you will always need my help through out your life.
That's' more degrading than before Affirmative Action. Then people may have called you a looser but you different and proved it by your actions, Affirmative Action prevents that, in my honest opinion.
Take care and have a good day. I am 65 and grew up when this was just starting and the school I went to, the blacks there worked hard and didn't get into the school because they were black. The School - Wheeling Colleg, a Jesuit institution.
Malek Masri Sri Lanka, Malaysia all had some form of affirmative action. It doesn’t show any significance in social mobility. I’m not against affirmative action, I just think it’s disingenuous to claim that it will improve social mobility. What it is, is a tool for politician to gain votes from minority. The real message behind affirmative action is: we will sacrifice the small minority who were rejected because of affirmative action to gain votes from minorities who benefit from that. Meanwhile, economists will debate endlessly, because that’s what academia is, while politicians go through their papers to look for another way to gain more votes.
"I simply do not see the justice in making people who are badly off, worse off in the name of advancing them."
Liberals always take advantage of the weak to make themselves feel better, acting like the are on the moral higher ground. Meanwhile knowing fully well all they are doing is maintaining the down trodden to remain down
@@MeMe-vm4lh While I do agree in part, the left (which now needs to be distinguished from liberals) is ignorant, and willfully so, to the reasons why they "feel" and do what it is they do. The ideals they hold are based off of a shallow understanding of the "problems" they are trying to fix. The fact that they don't care to look critically at these ideals or the problems tells a lot about the person. They are just weak or ignorant people allowing themselves through lazy thinking and emotional currency to be led around like cattle (that's why so many have the nose rings lol). I think the general population on the left actually thinks (lazily and wrongfully so as is proven in many debates/talks) they are doing something good for the down trodden - not including the upper level political and social leaders of the left, they know what they are doing. The problem is how do you get these people to come out of their stupor and even want to realize the truth in the matter? That they have been idealistically/intellectually lazy and used as a tool for an agenda (no one want's to admit when they are wrong or wants to believe they are being used because of their inadequacies)?? I don't think that can be done by external forces... it has to be done by either time/experience (some it may take half a century if even then) or a want by the person themselves to see otherwise they will push back against the onslaught of Truth that is attacking their perspectives.
@@GossAug Quite true.
@@kingdomcome1617 The Left worldview involves the simplistic view that Man is inherently good, but paradoxically his goodness has established institutions that are selfish and vile, resulting in inequality of results.
As a result, there are faultless victims and evil perpetrators.
I'm reminded of perfect Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and along comes a wicked serpent bent on suckering them to their doom.
There is no Free Will, no consequences, no dumb mistakes, no differences in maturity, no differences in levels of compulsion or self-control, no karma, no smart people or stupid fools, no driven or laid-back folks, no accidents in the womb or outside... just some evil capitalist out to screw you.
You can't use reason when you see life through this Marxist lens of fantasy. But you can become the self-righteous Zealot.
@@kingdomcome1617 Why should the left be distinguished from liberals? If Conservatives now are what liberals used to be, then why not call yourself a proud Conservative? The answer is simply because you're a coward. You're afraid of what people would think about you and do to you if you called yourself a Conservative.
Back then liberals were not as daring as they are now. Today on CNBC Sowell would be called an Uncle Tom to his face by a white Socialist reporter and there would be applause all around.
Agreed.
I grew up a Liberal Democrat from New York and I agree wholeheartedly. Thomas is brilliant, but twenty years ago I would have called him an oreo. I am glad I don't use any of those idiotic racist labels anymore.
Genius.
Same thing would have happened to him on any college campus. College is nothing but indoctrination engine for the left
That I don't agree with.
If only the two sides debated like this today...
debate=hate speech now
+Mo Overall Fitness Hacks How the paradigm has shifted, where emotional subjective lunacy has taken over from rationality, reason and objectivity. We are going down a very dangerous road!
back in a time where you could discuss a difference in opinion w/o insulting each other
Ian Paling so true, it's been reduced to now to a high school soap opera
I'd argue that, with these many years of evidence piling up on against these collectivist policies, civil debates are much harder. The leftists must resort to emotional arguments because facts are so heavily against them.
Thomas Sowell in one statement? "What does the data say?"
+Anogoya Dagaati Yup.. its what makes Sowell a level headed man, someone to be respected if you like truth, and someone to be feared if you are a propagandist. I started reading him 30+ years ago and he has always struck me the same.. level headed, a tenacious truth teller, unflinchingly hones in on the flaws in an argument. In short, someone who I immensely respect.
smith lovy The fuck are you on about he was 100% correct. As women started becoming educated and joining the workforce at rates comparable to men, the birth rate went down. It's also easier than ever to raise kids and run a household in the modern era thanks to technology.
smith lovy r u insane lol 23 senators because of cultural divergence he said this exactly in the whole video watch it , he said precisely that things change depending on cultutr n ethos etc lol ur very base if thats all u took from sowell qualitative n quantative data ahaggagahhaha
Love love love Thomas Sowell.
As should be said and followed by ANY economist/scientist or anyone with any logic whatsoever!
America needs another 90 years of Thomas Sowell.
Why settle for another 90 years when you can have him for your lifetime through his books and body of work??
@@stunns2003 Touche’
And another 1,000 of him!
2:49 "I'm afraid I simply do not see the justice in making people who are badly off, worse off, in the name of advancing them." Man that's powerful.
@smith lovy If there's two runners, one is faster than the other competing for one spot. Is it more efficient to hire the slower runner in the name of social balance or is it better to hire the faster runner regardless of his historical background?
www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07/look-data-and-arguments-about-asian-americans-and-admissions-elite
This article summarise the data from Universities. Black and Latino students have advantage over Asian students. While these students are in no way unqualified for universities, it is simply the case of the bell curve. AA actively destroys the model of the bell curve by filtering through racial profiling. I'm not saying AA is, "bad". I'm saying in terms of economic which prioritise efficiency above all else, AA benefits to efficiency is not entirely justified as the late professor have iterated, rather it is based on emotion.
@smith lovy The stop watch. They don't place disadvantageous countries athletes in front do they? If you want the "playing field is level", is it better to improve the minority condition before pitting them against others or is it better to give them a head start in the race? The important question is does the outcome the university wants with AA justified? Social justice for historical oppressed minority, racial diverse campus to facilitate understanding and improved learning. These are the reasons put forward to defend AA in terms of outcome and not principle i.e. does university as an institution or business has the right to profile its students or customers based on their racial background. The former needs empirical data to justified such as: how has increase minority in top university impact their community and prosperity and how has improved racial ratio improve learning outcome for students. As for the latter, I think it is acceptable for institution to discriminate but also all businesses and institutions should be allowed to make decisions based on background of its customers.
As for the bell curve, it refers to the normal distribution of many things: IQ, income distribution, university grading system, SAT scores and of course: www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299. There's no fairness, we are all part of the normal distribution, one way or another. Before calling it rubbish, address or discuss the ideas. Getting defensive is not helpful to the discussion.
@smith lovy Who are you ? Why are you talking as if you are a scholar or someone important we have to obtain permission to have a conversation on the internet. "IQ", the centre piece of your argument that aims to insult and undermine credibility instead of presenting a case and use evidence as support is very disappointing. IQ is one useful metric in determination of future success as with income and other metrics whose distribution is, normal. There will always be people with advantage over others one way or another. Interestingly I'm not even referring to IQ differences in races nor races in any context. You seems to be more interested in racial argument than: what's the best tool for the job? For me the matter at hands is a problem that AA is limiting the best tool from landing at where it should be. You are trying to enforce equality, which is another subject entirely. There will be no equality in our society. It is impossible, people are different. An example, a black student from rich family will have advantage over poor people from any races in the race to university. There will always be disparity. If you want absolute equality, I can't have a conversation regarding AA with you simply due to the language I adhere to is strictly of economic nature in which we accept factors like inequality and such as a part of our equation. I'll digress a little and muse with your "honest truth" a little. In your perfect society, when children are born, they should be shipped to a nurturing unit which is designed to train the students and create the best and brightest and then place them accordingly to their ability, separated from any sources of influences, as white as paper. I think you can find it in "The Giver". The solution could be complicated but it should not be patronising as it is now. The solution should be inspiring minority students that school is a pathway to success. Interestingly, go and read up on other minorities in South East Asia such as those in Sri Lanka and Malaysia. If you can put races aside, how difficult it might be when African migrants who made up 50% of the black attending Ivy League had to be mentioned, minorities can achieve very good result if they enjoy a culture that promotes those values. You can even dive deeper and see that African migrants come from better background or model students who have come to the US on scholarship which helps a lot with motivation and character strength whereas Asians are made up of many refugees. They used to be a lot worse than they are now. But that's just my conjecture, pointing it out, nothing to do with AA. If West African can become higher achievers, why are other minorities in the US struggle? Perhaps what the parents are telling their children has something to do with it?
smith lovy "Disproved" in the world of a socialist lunatic means "Factual statement that goes against my narrative." The Bell Curve was never disproved. IQ today is the best predictor for socioeconomic success.
smith lovy "The way to right wrongs of the past is with social engineering" And yet 55 years of AA has made 0 progress for the black community. In fact, they are worse off now than they were before AA. You have no facts on your side. You have nothing.
20-25 years.... It didn't work.
i made this argument and the reply was that we need more time and a broader scope.
Make Harvard all black through AA, then break out your popcorn and observe the 95% dropout rate based solely on academic difficulty. There wouldn't be any whites to "oppress" them, yet they would still fail. Then with an unfinished degree, watch them try and pay off the student debt amounting to that of a mid-size home. They will be in debt forever.
Brian Givens i had a hypothesis that these sorts programs were made to hurt minorities. government husband instead of a human, abortion rates, sex “resources”...
Sort of like voodoo economics of Reagan?
@@itWouldBeWise Yes. Exactly like that.
"how quickly do you expect the changes?" (Asking in reference to the Question asked by Thomas Sowell, about burden of proof lies with him and his constituents for justifying Affirmative action)
It is now 2015.
33 years... I expect them by now.
haha!
2020 now
it's still too early to tell!
But it wasn't real Affirmative Action! We need to try more.
Covid cut funding, not fair. We need another 25 years please.
It's hard to listen to him, but he's a genuinely pleasant person. He is evasive, but he entertains properly while he does. A little self-deprecating sarcastic humour in good taste. Of course, Thomas Sowell gets him on every question, but he is very graceful in his admission of defeat. This was truly a greater time for rational discussion
well said, true and very classy
I was thinking the same thing- these two men seem to genuinely like each other.
Hard? It's impossible to listen to that guy. He sounds like a constipated seagull.
He's like the intellectual version of grand maester pycelle.
I almost got the sense that he was trolling, as though he knew damn well his arguments were facile, as though his ulterior motive was to make the opposition to Sowell appear feeble.
"The problem with our liberal friends isn't that they are ignorant, but they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
“A witty saying proves nothing” - Voltaire
Sky Unless it’s the truth - Lincoln on my Minecraft server
NovaLegion No i think you’d still require evidence - George Washington on my Roblox account.
@@Sky-pg6xy Well yes but it's been increasingly obvious that leftist ideas in general aren't supported by facts, but more-so by emotion. - John Adams whilst feeding my neopets
NovaLegion No thats wrong - Mike Tyson on my box of Tasty Oats Cereal Mix
I have to say that Professor Robert Lekachman is one of the most, if not the most pleasant person I have listened to defending affirmative action. Give props to him for giving thoughtful arguments and being respectful, unlike the people of his position today.
I really enjoyed this. Two people with different opinions not calling each other idiots the whole time. Just talking.
D Hend well I guess it could be said that the white guy did you use intelligent sounding words while he squirmed around and avoided every issue and question. And when he lied he used Pleasant humor to cover up the fact that he had no excuse for them. On the other hand I really like the way mr.Sowell kept spanking his ass... and yes. He was nice about it
They do it all the time actually, just not frankly. "Empirical evidence doesn't matter", "what do you think of so and so", "just like you I take notice to the automobile industry", "25 years is the magical number", "I'll wait for you if you wait for me" etc...
Sowell was low key calling out the other guy tho. Just more sounding more distinguished. Like Sowell said, "I have yet to see any evidence. And I cannot even find anything in ur books. Which I have read." I'm paraphrasing. Lol but it was still way more classy then saying an ad hominem. Imo Sowell was basically saying, u have no evidence therefore u have no argument. Done.
Duy Linh Chu Ha, the funny thing is the left guy was wrong about the cars as well. The US got decimated through the 80s and 90s due to selling junk cars for too much and the Japanese and Koreans swooped in and sold better cars for less. So the “price fixing” he complained about was solved by the market.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
- Ronald Reagan
The Vietcong were the good guys.
That's right no one wants the FBI showing up at the door or a US Marine corps division invading the neighborhood. Like when Reagan sent in the cops giving them permission to kill at People Park. Then declaring an emergency sending in national guard troops to occupy the city of Berkeley.
@@kimobrien. Oh, definitely: I'm not a fan of Reagan (or of any other person that got to that office). I'm even less a fan of communists.
@@daveBit15 My bet though is I'm the only communist you've ever actually run across.
@@kimobrien. How much do you want to bet?
I thoroughly enjoy Thomas Sowell unabashedly dismissing and destroying left-wing arguments.
Reed Rothchild g
@@goodwomengoodman2868 WHAT??
I have Mr. Sowell on in the background as I do my homework.
It gives me an intellectual push....
God bless Thomas Sowell
This other guy speaks so slow and boring that he wears you out before Thomas Sowell can OWN him.
MindMeme His sense of humour is his saving grace, even if he is wrong about everything else.
JLongTom Sense of hum,or?
Seems like a desperate attempt to keep a float a sinking ship, to me.
It's not even funny how Sowell is PWNING this guy.
MindMeme A wet match in a dark cave.
MindMeme He reminds me of Moira the turtle in The Neverending Story. Cute in the movie but very irritating in a real, supposedly intelligent, human.
MindMeme LMAO
"I don't advocate WW3 as a solution..." Sowell: "Good, good... (we're getting somewhere)" XD
I never get tired of listening to professor Sowell. If he’s in the video I watch it
"I simply do not see the justice in making people who are badly off, worse off, in the name of advancing them" This is an awesome quote!
And he didn't even have a rebuttal 😅he just jumped to the next subject😮😂😂
Lekachman is saying that social clubs, such as golf clubs, that are selective as to who they let in as members, are employing a form of affirmative action.
Gosh the very fact that this is brought up as an argument by Professor Lekachman reveals how incredibly weak and quite frankly desperate his position on Affirmative Action is.
Sowell raised a brilliant point I've never heard before. Why is the onus of proof on those who oppose AA?
This is just opposing common sense really.
When an idea is proposed the onus is on the proposers to prove the validity of that idea. And yet this is reversed when it comes to AA.
Took the words out of my mouth. Well said.
***** No the idea first needs to be reasonably sound. We can outright dismiss crazy ideas without providing any standards of proof.
***** If someone told you that a teapot, and not the moon, was manipulating the Earth's tidal motions; would you entertain them or would you dismiss them outright?
***** Ah, so you'd ask him to cite sources, authorities, and experts? If so, then it DOES come down to the validity, soundness, and plausibility of arguments. In civil & criminal law, there is a 'burden of proof' that generally must be established by the plaintiff (the one who has a complaint) in order that the suit continue. Moreover, if this were decided by common law, a judge would throw it out on grounds of reasonableness.
To use the same example, if someone suggested in an argument that a teapot was manipulating the Earth's tidal motions, that notion would be immediately dismissed. There is a 'reasonable person' standard as well - which means things are compared to what a 'reasonable person' would do in the same situation. I think the most reasonable course of action is what Prof. Sowell is suggesting & what civil & criminal law would have, that the one who has a complaint, bears the burden of proof.
***** Indeed. You explained it well.
A reasonable argument FIRST needs to be presented and THEN a counter given.
In the case of AA proponents, as Sowell points out, the expectation is that a counter first be given. Which is just ridiculous and indicative of unscrupulous motivations behind an already weak argument.
LOGICAL ARGUMENTS AND SIMPLY LAID OUT FACTS ARE MY TRIGGER
Ty Guy OMG I'M BEING TRIGGERED TO! DOWN WITH FACTUAL-BASED-REASON-ARCHY
Kevin Ouellet you "need an adult"?!?!?!?! are you kidding me right now?!
THAT IS AGEIST YOU SHITLORD. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE
BWAHAHAHA alright i got nothin ya'll win the internet!
WINNING IS TRIGGERING WE ARE ALL EQUAL HERE
+Ty Guy
Logic is content neutral. You should be more persuaded by understanding of assumptions. David Hume is great at presuming arguments then pointing out what is wrong with the asumptions that give life to those arguments. Those tools are timeless.
Wow... so good. I guess we've seen the 25 year period end and we know who was right and who was wrong.
Lol: Marxist: "I see less of that evidence that you do.".. Sowell: "I believe that. I've been asking for you to cite some of that evidence for some time, and you can't seem to find any to the contrary."... Greatness!
thomas sowell.......must be nice to always be the smartest man in the room! much respect for this man!!! how many black people know the names of al sharpton or jesse jackson, but don't know the name thomas sowell? just a god damn shame!
You know, I don't think it's really even an issue of who's smarter. It's just a matter of who is more well studied. And when it comes to having closely examined hard evidence, no one beats Sowell.
dettigs dumb comment, most blacks know about Thomas Sowell
This is because the left has been successful in pushing their narrative. But we are awakening, and it’s liberating.
A Black, a White, and a Jew.
I have never been so entertained.
Nobody Was Here the Jew is also white...idiot
@@Anonymous-rp4hn no, they aren't. Even they say they aren't; they only "hello, fellow whites" when it services them.
@@salty28 Yes. "Ethnoreligious people".
@@juliannah5721 race and ethno religion are not the same. But I see how you are trying to conflate the two.
If only they had walked into a bar.....
I'm fascinated by these Tom Sowell and Milton Friedman videos, so glad I found them. They both speak so well, and without any histrionics or feeling of superiority, they completely dismantle the fallacies that are perpetuated by the left. It's a masterclass in drawing logical conclusions from evidence (both empirical and historic) and using that to respectfully inform the other side of how wrong they are.
Wow. This aged very well. And so did Dr. Sowell. God bless that man!
Even now at the tender age of 90, he's still sharp as a samurai sword.
The way Dr. sowell passes on his thoughts and knowledge is so simple, coherent and on point.
Now and then.
God i cant believe respectful debates like these are just memories now.
I love the way they went back and forth, so much respect for one another.
Right. People get so heated in debates these days.
I'd like to point out how lovely it is that people from opposite sides of an argument can speak so calmly and chuckle with each other, even tease each other. Aside from humorous teasing, there was no name-calling or the like. It is also interesting that the Jewish professor was advocating FOR affirmative action and the Black (retired) professor was advocating against. A wonderful example of people thinking without identity politics.
Looking around me now, it's obvious that T. Sowell was right.
"Well how quickly do you expect the changes?"
We've been waiting for 60 years now. When do *YOU* expect to see a change?
It's so funny the way Sowell and Buckley both know the other guy is wrong but they listen to his painful voice anyway and laugh with/at him.
Everyone knows that is the premise of the show but we humoured your comments anyway.
I love the way Buckley ends every sentence with a kind of cheeky nod to someone. It's like he's saying "well I bed THAT made you feel a little silly."
I can see why this show drew an audience. Insightful, intelligent, thought provoking and sometimes, given the wit of the guests such as Lekachman and Sowell, funny as hell.
Had this man been on O'Reilly, he'd hardly get a few words off. It's excellent and reassuring to see that there was once a forum in which these two contrasting ideologies could maintain a civilized, formal discussion without rude interruptions from either side and include an opportunity for its viewers to educate themselves on the contents of both arguments without such interruption. Excellent video.
I have been a fan of Thomas Sowell since I was around 17 years old and I would read articles he had written and which were carried by the local newspaper. I’m 61 years old now and my admiration for him has never wavered. He is a man I often suggest to others that they should look to for sound reasoning in understanding what some of the solutions which should be applied to the problems we are now facing. He explained what would happen if we as a country continued down a path of liberal policies. He has been proven to be correct. Here he even points out how liberals always shift the blame when their policies fail and or claim they just need more time and money. It’s never enough….
Wow, I didn't know a debate could be so civil, intellectual, respectful, and enjoyable!
That last question from the left-wing professor is so revealing. Taking from the rich to give to the poor is one thing, but to take from the rich to give to the middle is just selfishness on the part of the middle.
Benjamin Meltzer Hey, are we related?
@@ejmeltzer9357 not to my knowledge
@@benmeltzer Yeah, I figured. Lots of Meltzers out there.
The white dude with glasses.. Where is that accent from so I can never accidentally go there??
Sounds like he's from California
He's likely from New York and Jewish. Definitely not a WASP. Old Money wouldn't talk this way.
He's from Manhattan..
I thought he said he was Jewish....or maybe I was just inferencing from the fact they were talking about the Jewish and Black communities.
Jewish isn't a place or even referencing a place its a religion lol.
“If we ran the economy” should set off all kinds of red flags.
Dr Thomas Sowell is smiling ear to ear today !
Happy Birthday Dr Sowell !!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
"When people get used to preferential treatment equal treatment seems like discrimination. " Dr Thomas Sowell
I Love Thomas Sowell. What he says here is still valid today.
The Jewish guy so freakin boring
Wish there were several more talks with these three. Really enjoyed such a light-hearted civil debate.
7:40 Your 20 to 25 years is up, Professor Lekachman. So, where's the evidence? I'm sure if he was alive today, this "sufficient period" would still be ongoing.
ARM yup,socialists
Why do you think he gave that time frame? He knew he wouldn't have to have egg on his face when he was proven wrong.
lol. 5 minutes of talking from professor lamebrain to 20 seconds of talking from Dr. Sowell. And that's all he needed.
I'd say we should judge people on the content of their character, not on the color of their skin. And refuse to allow any law to be passed, federal, state, or local, that discriminates or treats people preferentially on the basis of their ethnicity. But I guess that makes me a right-wing bigot...
Mr. Sowell is a pretty tough dude to calmly, systematically hold his own in this arena.
[Jewing Intensifies]
i LOLed, thank you
Sounds like you're leveling up.
You just made my day!!!
+Cody Rowe Milton Friedman was not an "internationalist" like the mojority of Jewish intellectuals. No irony.
Stainlessfights4u But he was indeed Jewish. So yes to irony.
11:12 Lekachman: “Chicago has had a malignant influence”
Sowell: “Not nearly as much as it should have”
So true 😂
11:20 "It's also true that after the war there were 9% black teenagers unemployed. Now that figures more like 40% and that's with 40 years of progress under your system"
Mic drop right there!
How refreshing to hear an intellectual discussion held with humour and respect.
I miss this show. Quality intellectuals and their ideas being put in the _firing line_.
You mean reality? Yes I wish that show would air in america too.
They verbally jab and spar with one another, but always with respect and congeniality.
That minute when Buckley shuts down the opposition with such class and finesse it doesn't hit you until 3 seconds after the statement. Also, Sowell is absolutely brilliant, we need more black economist and writers like him.
Imagine knowing how durable and indefatigable Thomas Sowell would be at the time this was filmed. Mind blowing.
After watching this it’s obvious the timeframe that he gave 20 to 25 years has been exceeded and things have not improved .
I believe Thomas Sowell’s statements of rebuttal were correct and are now well established
A very pleasant debate to listen to where both people respect each other and aren’t yelling in each other’s faces! What a miracle!
I love Thomas Sowell. So intelligent, articulate, and not afraid to be confrontational in a polite manner. I’d vote for him for president in a heart beat!!!!
Was the concept of dental hygiene well circulated during this era? Buckley and the Jewish man look ghastly.
i think they're British....teeth are not a commodity there. Rather they are the butt of all Britain jokes...
+PotatoMasher1234 I stand corrected...
Zombie Jesus yeah, true...they just reminded me of all the brits I used to draw at Sea World...terribly self depreciation. I loved it they loved!
dental hygiene and materialistic perfectionism are different things
Haha did you feel like taking a jab at their teeth rather than the content of the discussion?
By creating government funded busy work to artificially reduce the unemployment rate, we will need a larger tax base to support it. This extra taxation will invariably fall on business owners and people employed in the private sector. The remaining work force available to entrepreneurs will be increasingly made up of the indolent and unemployable.
How could this possibly encourage the economy to flourish? Wouldn't this result in exactly the sort of entrepreneurial flight to Asia and elsewhere we've seen over the last two decades?
Yes it would, and the elites know this. This was always one of the intended goals. They need to tear down the West in order to implement their global control scheme.
Regardless of your political leanings, isn’t it wonderful watching this discourse full of inside jokes and open laughter. Brilliant.
The left: I’ve got a fantastic way to fix the problems the government created. Yet another government program! It’s so simple!
The rest of us: **facepalm**
No you need a revolution to replace the capitalist government.
Kim O'Brien because that worked _so_ well in Russia, China, Cuba, Germany, Venezuela, Vietnam, Italy, Japan, North Korea, Brazil, and so many others.
Only a few hundred million dead bodies and counting. What a great system!
Please, do humanity a big favor and move to one of those non-capitalist “paradises”. I’ll give you a week before you’d be begging to come back to America.
If it were up to me, I’d give your spot to a deserving person on the immigration waitlist the literal _second_ you left. There are people fleeing the systems you advocate just begging to come here. Some of them come on “boats” made of literal garbage because they had nothing else.
But _you_ know better, right?
@@Nicholas_Terry Cuban immigrants love freedom and capitalism because they understand what life is like without it. BLM in my town tried to extort them for "reparations" and they refused and started a peaceful protest. I don't want them to ever lose freedom again and I support them 100%
Well government programs are not bad in themselves. Stupid ones are.
@@Nicholas_Terry The quickest biggest death rate was during WW2 80 million dead in 6 years. Neither Stalin nor Mao could ever match that.The US wanted the big death rates and highest kill ratios in Vietnam and now since Jimmy 'Human Rights" Carter they claim to be a bastion of "Human Rights". Carter was the one who's regime allong with the UK took the side of Pol Pot a genocidal maniac at the UN provided him with arms via the Royal Dictatorship of Thailand.
These videos need to be streamed in our schools. It is frightening the realization that I am only hearing such arguments in my 30's. The emperor wears no clothes. . . .
Fun fact to those pointing out when the professor said he wanted 25 years to test affirmative action; Sandra Day O'Connor wrote the majority opinion of Grutter v Bollinger in 2003 (upholding affirmative action) and there she said "the Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today."
It took a while, but the supreme court just decided Thomas Sowell was right. Took a few extra decades, but it happened!
I wonder how many of the new generation of kids will understand this
L.M not many; i only know one other young person with some semblance of rationality
+L.M IKR? Its crazy how far our society has devolved in terms of logic and rational discussion. Compare this to Megyn Kelly on fox news or one of those msnbc shows
Yeah Megyn Kelly is way smarter than any of us
Anyone here after the recent supreme court decision?
Yes
Time-traveler from 2020: "Nope, still doesn't work"
I'm with Dennis. Sept 2020. Nope, shit still doesn't work. Only has created more strife and separation.
@@scottgarelli It's doing what it is intended to do. Liberals claim opposite of the truth. Liars
Hello DEI...
I love how cordial they are with still being snarky, wish we could do that without getting so heated
Let’s wait 25 years to see if it works….. that way I’ll be dead and no one will remember this conversation ever occurred…. And my arguments can be re-used as if they were never tried before…
Dr.Thomas Sowell is an American treasure.
Global* treasure
I mean really, my god Sowell is sharp. It`s not that I am new to the economics or those ideas, it`s quite the contrary, but the way he responds and delivers his message is just astonishing. It`s so pure and at the same time done with such a class. Really impressive.
Similar story for me. I read his "Basic Economics" book in graduate school and it changed my life. Since then, I've probably read a half dozen of his other books and books by additional authors such as Hayek, Rothbard and Hazlitt. It's good stuff.
It's the biggest red pill you can give yourself.
Basic Economics followed by Manufacturing Consent, then topped off by Atlas Shrugged you're ready to start rebuilding your view of political economy.
It is a crime that Sowell does not get the recognition today that he deserves. He was very prophetic back then.
As it's been said. I feel bad for any earthling that has Ever decided to debate the Great Thomas Sowell.
10 years later, AA finally overturned by supreme court.
4:55 that question is enough to shut down 99% of government FORCED programmes... Dr Sowell you icon.
40 years later and now the supreme court has ended it for colleges and universities
Good!
@BigEvan96 never said it wasn't. At the time that I commented that it had just happened
Sowell never disappoints. Brilliant man!
Wow, I’m 22 and I’ve never seen such educated people have such a civil debate; smiling, joking, laughing… I’m so interested in these intellectual settings from the mid-20th Century. Both sides are patient and respectful with each other. One may be more correct over the other but always so respectful and objective; never personal. I’ve grown used to non-professional, average every day people getting offended in Twitter threads, who use their hurt feelings as evidence for their point, arguing mindlessly in the comments, making fools of themselves, never to meet their “opponents” face to face. This older stuff is truly the best! There’s actually room to breathe and understand. Sigh…
In 1983 I was experiencing a great deal of unemployment. It was a very difficult time in my youth, I would make visits to the state employment agency to see what jobs were available etc...One day while at the agency I was waiting to be interviewed by the VA rep whose job it was to assist veteran's who were elgible to receive such help ect. My name was finally called, I went to his cubical area where he sat, the VA rep had an assistant working with him, they both were black and so was I. I thought to myself 3 brotha's, hell, this must be my lucky day! I was given a referral card with the name of the company, address, phone number and who to see etc.. The rep's took a look at me said " this company is looking to hire some blacks etc..we think you'll do well " They instructed me to wear a shirt, tie and jacket etc...I assured them that I would. I went to the interview lookin" sharp, filled out the application using my BEST penmenship etc..In walks the man who would be conducting the interview. He too was black....like me I thought to myself " I got this in the bag." This brotha is going to hook me up with a J. O. B. !! After 2 interviews I didn't get the job. How disappointed and painful it felt. It was a very hard and painful lesson to learn. Looking back, it was a very valuable lesson to LEARN, the man who interviewed me didn't OWE me anything because I was black,nor did the company. His obligation was to hire the applicant that would be most beneficial to the company's needs etc....and not to fill a quota. Affirmative action isn't beneficial to NO ONE. It does several things; it hires those who aren't qualified or under qualified, it sends the wrong message to minorities that they're owed something due to past wrongs etc...and those that are qualified for the position get past over. That's wrong.
If this is the case shouldn't ivy league Universities like Harvard end legacy admissions and tackle nepotism?
Heck doesn't it make sense to work towards the elimination of elitism in education full stop because we all know that admissions to Universities like Harvard are rooted in the way children are groomed and educated which automatically creates a bias for the rich who have all the resources in the world to invest in their childrens future.
It's not a level playing field yet people want to pretend that it's a meritocracy and the smartest & best rise to the top.
Work towards society being a meritocracy rather than favouring a well monied elite.
By the way Affirmative action policies shouldn't resort to quotas, that's just a race to the bottom is so obviously flawed and redundant that I wonder if that was intention in the first place.
When debate was still more of a duel instead of a hit and run these days.
Thomas Sowell is a very welcome oasis in a desert of insanity. Shame his message is only becoming more mainstream as the man is in his 90s. Delightful man, brilliant mind
Watching this in 2020. For the love of god we have absolutely fallen apart. Thanks cable news.
I was pleastantly surprised by this video. this guy is like the Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson of the Economics world.
And did anyone else want to claw their ears out when the white guy did that hesitational pause thing towards the break in his sentences?
it was so painful every time his stuttering snake mouth spoke.
+tank2003 The white guy opposite Sowell was doing the leftist 'sneer' that was acceptable in the 70s. That "sneer" has currently turned into outright character assassination by folks on the left. Its never about answering the questions or getting to root causes, its about avoiding them and then sneering about the idiots asking the questions.
The endgame though is always the exact same thing.. government uber alles.
R King Sneer. I'll have to use that. The left is all about deflecting nowadays. Deflecting, Vague and generic "apologies" and lumping mass groups together and warping facts and data to further their platform
He's far more prominent in economics than Tyson ever was or will be in physics
Cai "ever will be" exposes you as a basement hater. Both guys can be appreciated without knocking Tyson down.
I love this! A genuine debate with people that have very different opinions, but they're not bickering, arguing, talking over one another, or calling each other names. If people behaved like this today, we might actually learn something
Thank you Thomas Sowell. I wish I discovered you before.
Thomas Sowell is a visionary. An American of rare gifts. A patriot. GOD BLESS AMERICA
#ThomasSowell4President
...2016... just saying.
meh... I don't think Obama is of a Kenyan birth....
But I agree.... what if the first man of color as president was someone like Sowell... so much potential healing...
At 7:43, in response to Dr. Sowell's question about how long it would take for affirmative action to yield results, the progressive gentleman says, "20 to 25 years would be a reasonable period" This was recorded *40 years ago* and *that* was 15 years after the Civil Rights Acts were passed.
Man, the white Jewish guy likes the sound of his own voice, he takes an age to get to his point.
It's white or Jewish. Not both.
@@AccountInactive I stand corrected. Do we know if he is Jewish? Is he from the tribe of Judah?
@ippos_khloros because the word Jews is defined from Judah. However, I should have also acknowledged the tribe of Benjamin, apologies for my mistake
I wish someone would put up every episode of Firing Line online where we can view them. The subject matter touches almost always on current events even though they were produced more than 30 years ago for the most part.
an affirmative action president. 10 trillion in additional debt, assassination of american citizens. we have been at this for close to 50 years - 25 years longer than was suggested in this video. all races in america are capable of standing on their own. Sowell is a genius
I wish debate was still like this. Everyones calm, respectful, no identity politics or outrage hyperbole. just measured points. the moderator looks incredibly comfortable, adds only a few comments... just so classy. Why are people so much worse today?