Lore Olympus Discussion: Hades Problem

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @dazzlingkate2291
    @dazzlingkate2291  2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Another Lore Olympus discussion video~
    th-cam.com/video/wuCP782JFmo/w-d-xo.html

  • @CalltoaMentor
    @CalltoaMentor 2 ปีที่แล้ว +331

    Something that a lot of people in the fanbase don’t want to accept is that a character can be compelling and likable and desirable, and still be held accountable for the wrong that they do.
    And the reverse is true, someone can do horrible and infuriating things and still be worthy of redemption.

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

      Yeah, I see the reverse a lot more than the prior one. I don't know why people don't look into that and understand it doesn't look good on Hades character.

    • @CalltoaMentor
      @CalltoaMentor 2 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      @@dazzlingkate2291 I was thinking of Minthe with the reverse. People see what she becomes toward the end of their relationship and rightfully say this is toxic. Because it is. But then, coming straight up to where we currently are in the comics, the fanbase insists that she is therefore unworthy of having a fulfilling redemption arc.
      There is this pervasive perspective about Minthe that she came out of multiple unhealthy situations in which she was surrounded by a litany of toxic people and seeped into the toxicity herself rather than magically rising above it like a saint, she does not deserve happiness.

    • @generalhorse493
      @generalhorse493 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@CalltoaMentor I was ticked that Minthe was at the end shown to be understandable but toxic and no one could blame for her for creating her own undoing,
      but then she's brought back to life and she's supposed to be redeemed now which...no.
      That'd be like if on Game of Thrones Viserys Targaryen (Dany's older brother) was brought back to life and got a redemption arc.

    • @marocat4749
      @marocat4749 ปีที่แล้ว

      Like if its a human flaw leading to that and , what do people think tredemption means, you gotta do wrong things to redeem.

  • @jessnalulila5552
    @jessnalulila5552 2 ปีที่แล้ว +313

    Hades only wants a wife because Zeus and Poseidon have one, that's why he wanted to propose to Minthe without bringing the subject and after to Persephone in less than a month

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  2 ปีที่แล้ว +62

      Very true. It was very hinted to him rushing to that because of his brothers having wives.

    • @davidspearim5552
      @davidspearim5552 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @DazzlingKate22 you realise that both has cheated on each other and hades is not that bad he the god of the underworld

    • @kaykay8855
      @kaykay8855 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@davidspearim5552 true but, in the beginning, it sounds like he wants to get married for the wrong reasons. Yes, his relationship with Minthe was toxic. They both were toxic to each other, basically Hades is her sugar daddy and her boss. He owns or at least pays the rent on her apartment. Plus, Hades doesn’t like to be alone and his abandonment issues aren’t properly addressed.

    • @pokesims3658
      @pokesims3658 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@davidspearim5552 He is that bad….he only knew Persephone for 2 months before wanting marriage and then trial happened followed by the tens years time skip. After the timeskip Persephone did want to take things slow but Hades still wanted marriage even though he never outwardly did anything romantic for her. I would also like to point out that Persephone is trapped in the Underworld, like the myth, and is relying on the relationship to have a way to live decently which is a bad situation to be in.

  • @SoupSpot
    @SoupSpot ปีที่แล้ว +48

    Hades first problem: his shoulders are bigger than his body

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Oh shit. I didn't even realize that...like I'm SO used to it that I didn't realize how huge they are. Like holy banana bread...

  • @disallusionment4449
    @disallusionment4449 2 ปีที่แล้ว +84

    I love how you're not afraid to speak about the problems with this comic, look forward to more content!

  • @demonqueen3886
    @demonqueen3886 ปีที่แล้ว +198

    The fact that he went after a young naive girl that resembles his mother really bothers me and the fact that fans want to deny that Hades has mommy issues and that Persephone looks nothing like Rhea is really weird about the whole point of retelling a story is to make sure that there is no incest involved but nearly all of the characters look like they could be related especially Persephone And Rhea like come on

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Yeah, now that you bring it up Persephone looks very identical to Rhea. Now I'll have to talk about this because it's too odd.

    • @demonqueen3886
      @demonqueen3886 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @@dazzlingkate2291 honestly every time I see them together it just feels like Hades is just with her because she's the only female that's actually nice to him and the only person he can think of when he's with Persephone is his mom I know some people will be like don't you want to go with somebody who reminds you of your parent this is kind of just creepy

    • @01379
      @01379 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Minthe and Persephone and Rhea being similar colors is strange. I was thinking that today

  • @serenitymoon825
    @serenitymoon825 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    Notably, i started reading LO while in a relationship with a man 15 years older than me. Now I'm no longer in that relationship and all i can see while reading LO is red flags everywhere

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Oh wow, that is impressive of seeing the red flags. Some kind of don't pick it up, while others ignore it. So it's good to see those red flags.

    • @serenitymoon825
      @serenitymoon825 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@dazzlingkate2291 I've dated so much trash that I've got a book of red flags to look back on.

  • @menhera6937
    @menhera6937 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    I hate how the author ruins minthe's character redemption arc just for hades and persphone's relationship then writes her as a goofy jealous villainess ex acrhtype

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Ugh yeah, it's like, why? there's so much potential for it to be much better than this. Especially if it's gonna be adapted into an animated show...hopefully those writers adjust the series a bit.

    • @menhera6937
      @menhera6937 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@dazzlingkate2291 agreed minthe was the only reason I continued reading I dropped it after her arc got ruined

    • @davidspearim5552
      @davidspearim5552 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why do they to have to ruin my boy like that But in the actual Mythology Minthe Seduced and was Flirting with hades

  • @cosmok-1367
    @cosmok-1367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +141

    There is a lot more wrong with the god of the dead than just his problems in terms of his relationships. I do agree that when it comes to being in a relationship, Ironically Hades is just as bad at making the woman happy. He’s just as pushy and somewhat clueless with women as his brothers, but in the mythology, there is a reason for that. Unlike Zeus and Poseidon, who can go around the mortal realm as they please and squeeze any woman they find desirable. Hades spent most, if not all of his time in the underworld, where the majority population there were of the dead. Anything alive either were monsters or took a vow of eternal virginity. So, he didn’t really have a lot of options to pick a partner. On top of that, Hades was one of the only gods who took his job and title seriously. He managed to attend to the dead and escort them to their realms in the underworld. Delivering punishment to those who committed crimes in life and helping the heroes find eternal peace. He never left the underworld, because it was a big responsibility that he took pride in. He may have been somewhat morally gray like his brothers, but he at least managed to not abuse his powers that often. Hades wasn’t even considered an Olympian because he spent his time in the underworld, so any problems with the gods above he stayed away from. In other words, Hades never had any kind of experience with women, because he was so busy and didn’t see the value in needing a partner. It wasn’t until he saw Persephone (Or Eros shot an arrow of love at the god of dead) that he started to feel love. Which makes sense since Persephone is the daughter of Demeter, the goddess of fertility and the harvest, she would be an opposite to Hades' gloomy character.
    The comic missed the whole point of Hades' character, he doesn’t understand relationships because he has never been in one. (There was Minthe, but it isn’t clear if he genuinely loved her like he did with Persephone, as Minthe only ever seduced him but we never know in mythology if he enjoyed her company). Lore Olympus dodged an opportunity to try and write a new take on Hades’ character: They could have made him this all powerful god who has no ties to the Olympians, forcing those that he saw as sinful in their mortal lives to be slave labor for his business. He could have been a businessman like the story portrays him, but show more toxic sides to him like how he abuses his work force, even though they deserve it due to what they did in their living lives. Have him be the most feared god due to his status and make it seem like saying his name was taboo, because it meant you would summon him and die. He can have the relationship with Minthe at the beginning, but instead of wanting to make her his wife, he could just have a friend with benefits deal with her and make her a secretary if she needed a job. She could be a person he tolerates, but doesn’t love and she can feel the same way.
    Then enter Persephone. Hades sees her at the party but doesn’t pay her any attention, because he doesn’t value women on their looks alone. The whole ‘kidnapping’ incident can still happen, but Hades is more mature about it and tells Persephone that she needs to call her friends to pick her up. Artemis could come and get her, but when she sees Hades, she too is shook by his presence though reassures nothing happened and mocks the goddess of the hunt for allowing a vulnerable girl to be drunk and dragged into someone’s car. (This would not only showcase a badass Hades, but put Artemis in her place because we all could see that) Persephone is curious about Hades and wants to know more about him, but the other gods try to dissuade her due to his status. Eventually, she asks her mother, who is surprised but admits who Hades is. Persephone may want to try and get to know Hades, and begs her mother to meet him as a way to thank him. Hades and Persephone meet, and Hades doesn’t think too much of her, he doesn’t even know she’s Demeter’s daughter until he is told.
    Persephone and Hades can then have a mutual friendship, as she wants to learn more about him, but Hades tries to keep his distance between his work, the age gap, and Demeter's wrath. But perhaps the gods like Demeter and Hera would convince Hades to take Persephone under his wing to protect her, since they know he won’t do anything to her because he isn’t a creepy old man obsessed with her looks or age. Over time, Persephone starts to work under Hades as an intern and gets to know the underworld, hating how it looks so dreadful and while she tries to do the work she is told, maybe she uses her powers to make the place more lively. Which Hades admires as he enjoys seeing the flowers as it’s rare for him to see such beauty. Their relationship can blossom as he gets advice of dating from Hecate and Demeter, and Minthe could be a wing woman for Persephone as well as a mentor. They can start to become lovers, but have it progress more naturally and build up to it, where they can learn things from each other.
    I was going to add more about Hades and his other problems, but I think I will save that for another time of lore olympus discussion when you talk about him again. Unless you want to hear them in this reply trend. Still, great video!

    • @animeweeb7070
      @animeweeb7070 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Wow I think this is much better n natural to go with

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Wow! This is a lot more thought out than what Rachel went with. Like I get it, she wants more drama but there are a lot of plot holes and confusing parts for her story that don't add up or get delivered on, it's just a last thought put in there to be cute.
      This whole comment inspires me to record another video. :) You're very insightful on his character in mythology and how to fit it into a modern re-telling.

    • @cosmok-1367
      @cosmok-1367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      @@dazzlingkate2291 hehe, thanks. I’m a bit of a mythology nerd so I might be more harsh on Lore Olympus due to its inaccuracy of the characters and myth. There is a lot more wrong with Hades in terms of his character just in Lore Olympus. I’ll try to keep them brief with examples.
      1. Hades is far too obsessed and possessive with Persephone in the comic, especially considering in the first season, they only know each other for two weeks. A college student who went to Persephone’s school took a photo of hades and her (a normal photo that wasn’t perverted in any way mind you) and sends it to a news article where they make a nasty remark. Instead of Hades calling the papers or trying to rationalize this, he kidnaps the student who took the photo and carved his eye out! A college student! Who was just doing his job to get paid! If hades was going to attack someone, he should have gone after whoever wrote that headline, because that’s the most incriminating part of the story. (And Persephone isn’t upset or disturbed by this at all!)
      2. Hades plays favorites with Persephone and he doesn’t even hide it. This is most noticeable when he gives her a paycheck despite her being an intern and gets her business cards. He still has some control over Persephone because he still tells her what to wear, a reoccurring theme in LO where Persephone can’t even chose her own style, indicating she’s seen as an object and not a person.
      3. LO softens Hades character by trying to compare him to Apollo. But that alone is a problem because their treatment of Persephone mirror each other to the point they have the same creepy characteristics. They ogle her body through their glasses, they both give her a coat and lean in closer to her. She sits upfront with them in their cars. Apollo doesn’t know when her birthday is but neither does hades. That fact the story has to compare hades to an actual rapist just to make him look like the good guy, only shows how little character depth and growth the author gave to Hades. You could compare Apollo with any other character in LO and get the same results!
      4. The age gap relationship isn’t a bad thing if handled properly, but not in LO case. There are so many red flags to showcase how poorly handled this relationship is. A. Hades seems to be attracted to Persephone because of her youth! B. Dating someone younger than you means you’ve had time to deal with your issues and insecurities. The partner is not expected to fix their problems, but hades hasn’t been able to learn how to be happy in the 2,000 years he’s been alive. And Persephone blames herself for how hades acts the way he does around her, giving hades an excuse to dismiss his behavior! C. Sex for older guys isn’t as important because it’s a ‘been there done that’ and want a partner they can connect with emotionally. But hades always addresses Persephone’s body and has thoughts about her like a 13 year old boy, which doesn’t make sense given his maturity. They don’t even talk about how this age gap could impact the both of them, nor do they discuss if they can make it work. In other words, these are red flags that this age gap relationship… is not as healthy or balanced as it’s made out to be.
      Hades would absolutely be a creep in any other context due to the fact he fantasizes about a 19 year old he’s possessive over despite not knowing much about her. Much like Persephone flaws, the author doesn’t address Hades’s actions or mistakes, instead trying to justify them through circumstance rather than develop his character. I think that’s all I have to say in regards to Hades, but if you are gonna make another video about him later on, feel free to use these points.

    • @jessnalulila5552
      @jessnalulila5552 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@cosmok-1367 also Hera and Hecate even complained to him in regards of Persephone's age. So even for deities that's wrong

    • @cosmok-1367
      @cosmok-1367 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@jessnalulila5552 Personally, the age thing never made any sense to begin with. Persephone has no reason to be this young! Apollo and Artemis are younger gods in the patheon but they aren't anywhere near Persphone's age! And second, they are gods. Immortal celestial beings that live forever, why should age matter to begin with? Espeically when many of them have mortal lovers that are also younger than them? Is that a crime?
      They can still have an age gap, but make Persephone at least a few centuries older like between 500-700. And yeah, Hera and Hecate are upset at Hades in the comic. But in this version, they would somewhat fear him due to his status and again, he wouldn't really consider Persephone as his lover or partner as he isn't interested. But they would probably think that is desierable because that means he wouldn't hurt her like say Zeus or any of the other male gods like Ares. I dunno, I'm more thinking of my interpertation of how it could have happened rather than how it did.

  • @dagh2006
    @dagh2006 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    What you said about marriage about Almost happen to my bigger sister, when she was graduating from High School in Mexico, like 18 to 19 years and we where moving to The States, her boyfriend tried to ask her for marriage, she said to him she didn’t wanted to compromise themselves, she later on discovered that her ex was planning on asking her to marry him in her graduation, as we moved to the US, they kept togrther like 1 year and when they finally broke up, one day later he updated a new relationship to FB, the woman he was cheating on with her was also pregnant.

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Oh my goodness, that's unfortunate that happened. But yeah, this is pretty toxic.

  • @demeterontheinternet
    @demeterontheinternet 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    You were explaining it a lot better than you think! ❤
    Yeah, and there are men (because pay gap, usually men) who think they can just “buy” their way out of problems. Plenty of women do it to family and friends. And yeah, it’s unhealthy even if it’s well-intentioned (or at least not actively manipulative), because resources are important.
    Minthe got done badly in this series - her actions and responses were the ones that made the most sense tbh

  • @Toastcat890
    @Toastcat890 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    He's just straight up selfish especially with how he lead Minthe on he KNEW he didn't love her but was just gonna be in a marriage he didn't really want in the first place Minthe dodged a bullet even though I don't like her no one deserves to be in a love less marriage.

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Agreed, I think Minthe got the best way out of being in a marriage with Hades.

  • @ravenflame1246
    @ravenflame1246 2 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    Agreed. Hades has problems for sure.

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      There is a lot more I can talk about, but I've got to save all that for another video. I'm glad you enjoyed watching! :)

  • @marocat4749
    @marocat4749 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Why hera, why, her entire thing is that zeus is a god of fertility and horndog, but because she is of sanctity of marriage, she cant divorce or punish him other than letting it out on his lovers.
    A thing you could do a lot with. Either as pretty strictly monogam person, or how poly would work there?! if zeus messes that up too?
    hera would never cheat on zeus. you dont need her to be her part of a drama.

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Agreed. It just feels odd that Hera needs to even cheat or lower herself to his level.

  • @kitt5567
    @kitt5567 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    I feel like it could probably boil down to a problem with consistency in characters personalities and motivations, which is really vauge. i don't see it as a big problem but it can be noticed sometimes that some characters act a little too out of their personality traits.

  • @yabokuv
    @yabokuv 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ughhhh thanks for making this vid! I don't understand how people find him likeable. He is an abusive old creep

    • @dazzlingkate2291
      @dazzlingkate2291  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Agreed, and thank you so much for watching! I do have more LO videos that go more in depth about Hades manipulative behavior and much more! ;)

  • @The_strawberryqueen
    @The_strawberryqueen 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hades was definitely abusive in minthe and his relationship the only reason LO doesn’t talk about it was bcs minthe was more vocal and physically about her abuse then he was they were BOTH bad for each other
    and both her and hades found a place that was healthy for them and healed just bcs one character is known as “bad” doesn’t mean they can’t find love and someone to help them and just bcs one character is known as “good” doesn’t mean they can’t harm others
    People are much more complex then just good and bad

  • @floralfancy7814
    @floralfancy7814 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Is Hades a groomer?

    • @bubbbs
      @bubbbs ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I’m not sure actually.
      For starters, Hades had feelings for Persephone. (A.K.A love at first sight). Note that Hades was not aware of Persephone’s age at the time (19) and obviously assumed she was around 1,000+ years old (since Hades’s age is around 2,000 according to the Wiki), and only realised after Hecate told him.
      Time skip, he thought a 2,000 year old man having a “crush” on a 19 year old goddess is weird, but after a chapter or two we completely forgot about it.
      One side says Hades isn’t a groomer since Persephone id the age of consent.
      But the other side says that he’s disgusting for having a crush on a 19 year old goddess with the 1,981 year age gap.

    • @tartaglia.
      @tartaglia. ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He’s not a groomer, just a loser

    • @shanon4768
      @shanon4768 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      since grooming dosent have to happen to someone who is under age and can be done even for things that arent sex or a relationship he 100% did everything he did ended up giving him power or authority over her and made her ingratiated to him, he gave her a internship personally over saw her getting a bank account gave her presents all the time, lavished her with attention and preferential treatment and constantly made her feel special, sure he wasnt thinking "I'll do this to butter her up so i can get in her pants" but he was attracted to her agonizing over how hot she was the entire time before breaking up with minthe