While I would generally agree with the sentiment. I'm not completely against regulated harvesting of the wrecks as long as they don't disturb the actual bodies. There are some technologies that currently literally can't be built without pre-1942ish steel, because anything smelted afterward is much more heavily contaminated by airborne residue from nuclear bombs. MRI machines for example have to have prebomb steel.
@@jaroslavstava3704 is it? I hadn't heard that. If so that's awesome, at least until North Korea or someone else decides to set some off and re-contaminate everything.
@@jameshall1300 Still not the property of China or for Chinese salvaging teams almost certainly showing no regard to the bodies of those at rest. If the wreck is to be salvaged that is up to the UK government who would do so to higher standard and with regard to the bodies. So while I understand your point, I think they need to stopped and face justice.
My father’s boyhood friend died on the Repulse. Just before he died my father discovered that he had managed to escape from the boiler room and was unfortunately killed by machine gun fire from a Japanese plane while attempting to help a shipmate. 👍🏻🏴🇬🇧🇺🇸
Really excellent coverage of Repulse! She came close to firing her big guns in anger a few times in WW2 - missed engaging Gneisenau & Scharnhorst with Renown off Norway by a few hours, missed engaging Bismarck with King George V because of the shadowers losing contact, again by a few hours, then in the South China Sea overnight before her sinking, just missing the Japanese cruiser force, actually coming within range. Ironically she had a reputation for good gunnery - at least in exercises. The illegal salvage is a travesty - so painful to see!
So Repulse was lucky not having to engage german ships, an encounter sometimes without a happy end for british battlecruisers.. could it be Repulse avoidet 20 british propaganda torpedoes(:-)
@@JohnnySmithWhite-wd4ey Actually no they couldn't! Not by a long shot! LOL! Repulse didn't have her gun elevation increased from 20 to 30 degrees as Renown did. Her maximum gun range was therefore 23,000 yards vs. 32,000 for Renown. Scharnhorst & Gneisenau's 11-inch could actually reach over 40,000 yards at 40 degree elevation, so even outranged Renown. But of course, such extreme ranges were not practical for scoring hits in those days - the maximum range at which hits were ever scored in WW2 was 26,000 yards (Warspite on Guilio Cesare, and Scharnhorst on Glorious). The RN used supercharges to increase the range of the 15-inch guns on those ships with 20 degree elevation, but I don't think the extra range reached 32,000, and their use increased gun barrel wear. Also, Renown and Repulse's armour scheme, especially their 9-inch max belt armour, was probably more vulnerable to penetration by German 11-inch shells than S & G's armour was to British 15-inch - especially a medium to short ranges. Nevertheless the much smaller bursting charge of the approx 740 lb 11-inch AP shell could not compare in damage potential to that of the 1920 lb 15-inch.
If the PRC ever falls, I think reperations need to be paid to the remaining familys or something. Utterly disgusting what has been happening to these war graves.
I honestly believe, that any violator of any wargrave deserves an immediate spot in such grave, no matter how acute is the scarcity of low background metal. Anyway, a really interesting coverage of this beautiful battlecruiser, and a fair account of this ship excellent defense against overwhelming enemy forces in her final, "impossible" confrontation.
Good film. TY. Must admit I was confused by "Force C" - until I realised that it was an americanisation pronunciation of what was really Force Z (ZED)! Keep up the good work!
Often called HMS Repair on the account number of times in dock however a lovely looking ship & whoever served aboard were proud to do so including my Father : Captain Tennant ( Dunkirk Joe ) handled her superbly during the attack ! Shocking what has been done by Salvagers little of her left now 😢
If this must take place then at least it must be carried out with oversite from the respective nations. With the recovery of any posserble remains or important historical artifacts. The who question of ships sunk both in WW1 and 2 is becoming a big issues because of the amounts of Fuel and the state of Munitions and Cargo's that they were carring. There have been serious ecological issues raise as these ships continue to rust and rot. If you look at the North sea along and only a few km of the Germany and Dannish coast their are several ships lieing on the bottom along with millions of tones of Muntions and even Mustard Gas and other Chemical weapons dumped into the Ocean after both wars. No one at the time thought about the future and corrosion or shit washing up on the now tourist popular beaches. You have the same thing between the the UK and Ireland. Never mind off the Coasts of the USA or just around the general sites of Sea battles. But I Salvaging needs to be done then it must be undertaken under internation laws and licenced and with international observer's on board. There is to much War grave desercration taking place you have the same in the east in the former Soviet nation were cash strap local go digging up around local Battle site to find WW2 equipment Medals and Helmets or Weapons case and Muntions all to sell one way or another these also include dog tags. So they are digging up the dead maybe by accident if the grave were just lots to time. I think there are now some private operations now taking place to at least recover these remains. In that case. Again greed drives or just the need to make a living income.
Shame thenChines salvage ship couldn’t have been torpedoed, too. Put the wreckage back on the ocean floor where it belongs. Disturbing a war grave like that is disrespectful and infuriating.
@@michaelpielorz9283 If we avenge the past there will be only more war. Desecrating historic graves will not pay penance for what happened in the Opium Wars. All it does is confirm who the Modern Chinese are …….grave robbers. Modern Britain can not change the past but modern China could change the present. China could begin to discover moral high ground and respect others. This theft of the gravestone actually burdens Modern China with equal or greater shame, placing Chinese ethics hundreds of years behind the UK. Your obvious satisfaction at such revenge will be your Children’s regret they can later share with the British, and you’ll be discarded a mere forgotten opportunist grave robber when modern China implodes on its own egos.
Churchill was the Harry Maguire of British politics: scoring one own goal after another. The sacrifice of these two great ships was nothing compared to his deadliest own goals. The man was cursed.
He was crazy enough to refuse to negotiate with Hitler in an utterly hopeless situation. Sadly, that same irrational contrarianism led him to make so many stupid decisions. Hitler is famous for hindering the German war effort, but Chruchill's tactical follies killed thousands. Millions of you include the Bangal famine.
The reason/purpose? Steel from WW2 ships seems to be very durable and I think fetches a high price. Is it right? No. In fact, any sunken warship is treated as a war grave and most countries are content to leave them be. Did some digging and it's kinda illegal on the international level but not really enforced (could be wrong)....
The reality is that there are three lucrative markets for wrecked warships of the era: 1.) High quality materials like armor-grade steel is worth more than normal on the scrap market as they tend to have fewer impurities that have to be processed out of the metal. 2.) Relics of the Second World War are worth a lot in their own right. Private and public collections will pay a lot for authentic things from famous ships. 3.) Metal that was forged before the Nuclear Age lacks certain radioactive elements in their chemical composition that makes it particularly valuable for certain scientific instruments that rely on minimal radioactive interference to do their work. Geiger Counters, for example, don't want their own metal having any radioactivity compromising the accuracy of their readings.
The Malaya-Singapore-Burma campaign really was the British demonstrating they had so far learnt nothing from the war. Even the most scant air cover, or a decent AA outfit or better training for the AA crews, or a decent AA escort, could have saved her in December 1941. She was clearly VERY well handled, but it was about the only time Japanese medium bombers used as torpedo bombers actually worked.
No great leader exists without failure. Jackie Fisher is no exception. But what a great commander at just the right time! I’m so sorry I forgot to mention what a great video this is
Invariably in most cases where desecration occurs of War Grave Vessesl, it is Chinese salvagers, or Indonesian/Malaysian salvagers contracted by the Chinese, it is about time these War Graves were monitored by satellites and that RN, RAN, USN, even the JMSDF could legitimately arrest and if necessary open fire on these criminals.
Mind, she was being built to fight South American battleships, not anything else, and at that point, all the South American battleships only had 12'' guns. At the time, 9'' belts were considered plenty adequate to stop 12'' shells at the expected battle ranges and in general that proved to be the case. In this particular then, 9'' was adequate, if only just, for the task being asked of the armor. The real problem was that 9'' is only just thick enough to stop 12'' shells, and Almirante Cochrane, by being the first South American battleship with guns bigger than 12'', was basically setting up all of Chile's rivals to buy ships with guns as big or bigger than Almirante Cochrane's, ensuring she would be as outmoded as all the ships she had outmoded just a couple of years earlier. Thankfully, the Great War, the Washington Naval Treaty, and other factors would effectively end the South American Naval Arms Race just in time to save Chile that embarrassment.
Honestly a nice torpedo to the side of the salvagers desecrating war graves would be fair. Honestly a tragedy.
While I would generally agree with the sentiment. I'm not completely against regulated harvesting of the wrecks as long as they don't disturb the actual bodies. There are some technologies that currently literally can't be built without pre-1942ish steel, because anything smelted afterward is much more heavily contaminated by airborne residue from nuclear bombs. MRI machines for example have to have prebomb steel.
@@jameshall1300not anymore. Isotope levels in the atmosphere have decreased. It's now feasible to use new steel.
But please a long lance torp. You know, those 610 mm torps, the japanese had in ww2.
@@jaroslavstava3704 is it? I hadn't heard that. If so that's awesome, at least until North Korea or someone else decides to set some off and re-contaminate everything.
@@jameshall1300 Still not the property of China or for Chinese salvaging teams almost certainly showing no regard to the bodies of those at rest. If the wreck is to be salvaged that is up to the UK government who would do so to higher standard and with regard to the bodies. So while I understand your point, I think they need to stopped and face justice.
My father’s boyhood friend died on the Repulse. Just before he died my father discovered that he had managed to escape from the boiler room and was unfortunately killed by machine gun fire from a Japanese plane while attempting to help a shipmate. 👍🏻🏴🇬🇧🇺🇸
Betty and Nell bombers: "You can't dodge all of us forever"
Repulse: "Bet"
*Eurobeat intensifies*
A bet they lost... badly!
She was a fine looking ship. Thieving bastards robbing a war grave, how would they like their ancestors remain disturbed?
CCP does not care about its own population let alone foreigners.
well. from a capitalist point of view, it is not unknown to profit from the dead.
Real capitalism has never been tried.
Don’t buy from China
@@avian_barrister
Yawn. 🙄
Really excellent coverage of Repulse! She came close to firing her big guns in anger a few times in WW2 - missed engaging Gneisenau & Scharnhorst with Renown off Norway by a few hours, missed engaging Bismarck with King George V because of the shadowers losing contact, again by a few hours, then in the South China Sea overnight before her sinking, just missing the Japanese cruiser force, actually coming within range. Ironically she had a reputation for good gunnery - at least in exercises. The illegal salvage is a travesty - so painful to see!
So Repulse was lucky not having to engage german ships, an encounter sometimes without a happy end for british battlecruisers.. could it be Repulse avoidet 20 british propaganda torpedoes(:-)
@@michaelpielorz9283Her 15 inch guns could easily put range the 11 inch guns the Germans used.
@@JohnnySmithWhite-wd4ey Actually no they couldn't! Not by a long shot! LOL! Repulse didn't have her gun elevation increased from 20 to 30 degrees as Renown did. Her maximum gun range was therefore 23,000 yards vs. 32,000 for Renown. Scharnhorst & Gneisenau's 11-inch could actually reach over 40,000 yards at 40 degree elevation, so even outranged Renown. But of course, such extreme ranges were not practical for scoring hits in those days - the maximum range at which hits were ever scored in WW2 was 26,000 yards (Warspite on Guilio Cesare, and Scharnhorst on Glorious).
The RN used supercharges to increase the range of the 15-inch guns on those ships with 20 degree elevation, but I don't think the extra range reached 32,000, and their use increased gun barrel wear.
Also, Renown and Repulse's armour scheme, especially their 9-inch max belt armour, was probably more vulnerable to penetration by German 11-inch shells than S & G's armour was to British 15-inch - especially a medium to short ranges. Nevertheless the much smaller bursting charge of the approx 740 lb 11-inch AP shell could not compare in damage potential to that of the 1920 lb 15-inch.
If the PRC ever falls, I think reperations need to be paid to the remaining familys or something. Utterly disgusting what has been happening to these war graves.
That Chinese ship needs to be interned by international court crewmen needs to be locked up seriously
What International court would this be? And what muscle?
Call John Paul Jones!
I honestly believe, that any violator of any wargrave deserves an immediate spot in such grave, no matter how acute is the scarcity of low background metal. Anyway, a really interesting coverage of this beautiful battlecruiser, and a fair account of this ship excellent defense against overwhelming enemy forces in her final, "impossible" confrontation.
Good film. TY. Must admit I was confused by "Force C" - until I realised that it was an americanisation pronunciation of what was really Force Z (ZED)! Keep up the good work!
i would always add a destroyer to the war grave patrol so that they may fire a torpedo at the salvager to make them pay for their disrespect
I think she was one of the more beautiful ships from these times.
that is my favourite ship. her ww2 look was so nice.
Often called HMS Repair on the account number of times in dock however a lovely looking ship & whoever served aboard were proud to do so including my Father : Captain Tennant ( Dunkirk Joe ) handled her superbly during the attack ! Shocking what has been done by Salvagers little of her left now 😢
Excellent video!
The desecration of war graves should be illegal with ANY navy able to address it appropriately.
Might makes right, or so the saying goes.
If this must take place then at least it must be carried out with oversite from the respective nations.
With the recovery of any posserble remains or important historical artifacts.
The who question of ships sunk both in WW1 and 2 is becoming a big issues because of the amounts of Fuel and the state of Munitions and Cargo's that they were carring.
There have been serious ecological issues raise as these ships continue to rust and rot.
If you look at the North sea along and only a few km of the Germany and Dannish coast their are several ships lieing on the bottom along with millions of tones of Muntions and even Mustard Gas and other Chemical weapons dumped into the Ocean after both wars.
No one at the time thought about the future and corrosion or shit washing up on the now tourist popular beaches.
You have the same thing between the the UK and Ireland.
Never mind off the Coasts of the USA or just around the general sites of Sea battles.
But I Salvaging needs to be done then it must be undertaken under internation laws and licenced and with international observer's on board.
There is to much War grave desercration taking place you have the same in the east in the former Soviet nation were cash strap local go digging up around local Battle site to find WW2 equipment Medals and Helmets or Weapons case and Muntions all to sell one way or another these also include dog tags. So they are digging up the dead maybe by accident if the grave were just lots to time.
I think there are now some private operations now taking place to at least recover these remains. In that case.
Again greed drives or just the need to make a living income.
Post-1st generation battlecruisers like Repulse look so good. There's something to be said about her long, sleek lines.
Shame thenChines salvage ship couldn’t have been torpedoed, too. Put the wreckage back on the ocean floor where it belongs. Disturbing a war grave like that is disrespectful and infuriating.
but profitable.
That`s the chinese way of saying thank you for your Opium-Wars, when the british very respectful cared about the Chinese!
@@michaelpielorz9283
If we avenge the past there will be only more war.
Desecrating historic graves will not pay penance for what happened in the Opium Wars. All it does is confirm who the Modern Chinese are …….grave robbers.
Modern Britain can not change the past but modern China could change the present. China could begin to discover moral high ground and respect others. This theft of the gravestone actually burdens Modern China with equal or greater shame, placing Chinese ethics hundreds of years behind the UK.
Your obvious satisfaction at such revenge will be your Children’s regret they can later share with the British, and you’ll be discarded a mere forgotten opportunist grave robber when modern China implodes on its own egos.
Was that a “paddle wheel” tug?
Churchill was the Harry Maguire of British politics: scoring one own goal after another. The sacrifice of these two great ships was nothing compared to his deadliest own goals. The man was cursed.
ANZACs and Canadian would sureley say this man was a curse !
He was crazy enough to refuse to negotiate with Hitler in an utterly hopeless situation.
Sadly, that same irrational contrarianism led him to make so many stupid decisions. Hitler is famous for hindering the German war effort, but Chruchill's tactical follies killed thousands. Millions of you include the Bangal famine.
Tearing ship wrecks apart?
My first question is what is the purpose/reason for this and my second question. Is that the right thing to do?
The reason/purpose? Steel from WW2 ships seems to be very durable and I think fetches a high price. Is it right? No. In fact, any sunken warship is treated as a war grave and most countries are content to leave them be. Did some digging and it's kinda illegal on the international level but not really enforced (could be wrong)....
The reality is that there are three lucrative markets for wrecked warships of the era:
1.) High quality materials like armor-grade steel is worth more than normal on the scrap market as they tend to have fewer impurities that have to be processed out of the metal.
2.) Relics of the Second World War are worth a lot in their own right. Private and public collections will pay a lot for authentic things from famous ships.
3.) Metal that was forged before the Nuclear Age lacks certain radioactive elements in their chemical composition that makes it particularly valuable for certain scientific instruments that rely on minimal radioactive interference to do their work. Geiger Counters, for example, don't want their own metal having any radioactivity compromising the accuracy of their readings.
The Malaya-Singapore-Burma campaign really was the British demonstrating they had so far learnt nothing from the war. Even the most scant air cover, or a decent AA outfit or better training for the AA crews, or a decent AA escort, could have saved her in December 1941. She was clearly VERY well handled, but it was about the only time Japanese medium bombers used as torpedo bombers actually worked.
The U.S. and Japanese did the same thing with Chicago. Overconfidence.
Remarkable handling ofa large ship against agile planes. We hear that they eventually attacked from different directions
No great leader exists without failure. Jackie Fisher is no exception. But what a great commander at just the right time! I’m so sorry I forgot to mention what a great video this is
but some of fishers ideas could not be called a success ( some is a polite expression for saying a lot)
IJN "hold muh beer"
The aircraft involved although IJN were long-ranged land based rather than carrier based
Tojo said "yes, no problem"
Neratte ... Pon!
Force ‘Zed’ 😊 good videos!
She did sink, didn't she?
Repulse was a great kick ass ship. I like battleships.
Battlecruser.
Invariably in most cases where desecration occurs of War Grave Vessesl, it is Chinese salvagers, or Indonesian/Malaysian salvagers contracted by the Chinese, it is about time these War Graves were monitored by satellites and that RN, RAN, USN, even the JMSDF could legitimately arrest and if necessary open fire on these criminals.
semper fi,,semper fortis
"hit me of you can, Japan"
Japan hits her.
Repulse: 😮
Turns out they could, Hood
How sad is it that 9" of armor was considered adiquate for Admarial Cochrane?
Mind, she was being built to fight South American battleships, not anything else, and at that point, all the South American battleships only had 12'' guns. At the time, 9'' belts were considered plenty adequate to stop 12'' shells at the expected battle ranges and in general that proved to be the case. In this particular then, 9'' was adequate, if only just, for the task being asked of the armor.
The real problem was that 9'' is only just thick enough to stop 12'' shells, and Almirante Cochrane, by being the first South American battleship with guns bigger than 12'', was basically setting up all of Chile's rivals to buy ships with guns as big or bigger than Almirante Cochrane's, ensuring she would be as outmoded as all the ships she had outmoded just a couple of years earlier. Thankfully, the Great War, the Washington Naval Treaty, and other factors would effectively end the South American Naval Arms Race just in time to save Chile that embarrassment.
They can…
The only thing you can do is try to avoid anything made in China. It's impossible with electronics.
What a beautiful lady
Fools indeed IJN Bombers flew from Saigon carrying Torpedoes. Japanese left out any Escort. The Fools! Reckless strategy got by OK.
HMS Repair and REfit
Of course it’s a Chinese salvage Company. The Chinese government are such grand stewards of all things of reverence to others and of the environment
Old old Brit ships like the HMS Hood finished off by Bismarck
Fixing Chinese. A nation with no scruples, even the Japanese were horrified at the desecration of war graves
That's the kind of country Britain likes to ally and work with.
Hit me if you can? Considering how quickly they put both the Repulse and POW on the bottom, I'd say "Challenge accepted!"
Disgusting, desecrating war graves.