Woo-hoo! This is exciting! Do you know when they hope to make their final decisions about which routes to add? Do you know if there are already Railroad tracks set in place in these new areas?
@luvinlife90 I think that connecting Nashville to the rail system like this will take it to the next level. And it would be nice not to have to fly or drive every where!🥰
Nashville to Atlanta: Currently, by the time you manage getting to the airport an hour ahead for security, manage parking or ride, take the actual flight and do it all again in reverse, it's quicker to drive.
Seniors are the main reason that the auto train exists. Millions of snow birds bringing their cars to and from Florida for the season. It's better and cheaper than using an auto transport company and flying down separately.
If Amtrak could simply clean and properly maintain their existing rail cars, it would certainly help. Any new routes will also help and I hope some of these come true.
@@emileebell2038 Heck, I bring baby wipes for buses and airlines as well... I even stock baby wipes in the glove box in my car for nasty restrooms at seedy fast food joints, gas stations, and rest areas... If only there were more Buc-ees....
What would we do without you guys? I love these Amtrak latest videos!!! St Louis to Indianapolis and Birmingham to Nashville to Indianapolis would be amazing.
Love that the Wyoming route is back in consideration. Rode the old Wyoming to Portland route many times in the late 70's before it was moved to Colorado. Hope it happens.
Amtrack service to Las Vegas was abandoned in the very early 1990's, I never understood that - I worked downtown at the California Hotel and the train from Los Angeles was always packed. I would love to see Amtrack back in Vegas. Bright line is building a line from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. Already doing preliminary right of way studies.
Won't have to catch the train in Kingman in the middle of the night! Yes I can get behind the new routes! The Amtrak use to run through Vegas until the late 90's. Nice to have it back!!
Being able to take the train from Los Angeles all the way to Jacksonville is a big one for me. This restores the country’s only ocean to ocean route that was broken up by hurricane Rita a few years ago. I’ll be one of the first persons to take train once the full route is restored. It will figure prominently in my circular trip to ride the outer Amtrak routes and VIA rails Canadian service. Also adding another train through Cincinnati would be a great idea. A daylight arrival and departure there would be a welcome addition.
If you look at the map however, it looks like it’s not a through train. It’s showing the New Orleans to Mobile on Gulf Coast Passenger Rail. I’m not sure if that’s just an Amtrak train using their rails or if you would have to change trains. That would not be popular for just a few hours journey.
It was Hurricane Katrina that stopped Amtrak service East of New Orleans. From Wikipedia: "On August 29, 2005, the Sunset Limited route was truncated east of San Antonio, Texas, as a result of damage to trackage in the Gulf Coast area caused by Hurricane Katrina. In late October 2005, service was restored between San Antonio and New Orleans, as the line through Louisiana had been repaired. Service east of New Orleans has remained indefinitely suspended despite CSX Transportation completing repair of the track in January 2006"
@@netsurfrdude I’m aware of why it was stopped. The damage to the bridges and trestles was extensive. But as you wrote, it didn’t take CSX long to get those repaired as too much money rides on that busy East-West corridor. But I never have understood why the passenger services wasn’t restored. Was there that little traffic from Jacksonville to New Orleans?
@@Bill_N_ATX Amtrak stole THREE Superliner train sets to cover cars damaged beyond repair from derailments. There have been more derailments during the twenty years after Hurricane Katrina. As I noted above in another thread, Amtrak barely has enough locos and cars to sustain present operations, never mind expanding Amtrak with more trains. Locos and cars do NOT pop out of thin air like magic. Keep in mind it took CAF ten years to produce all of the new 75 Viewliner II cars before Amtrak could put them into service... Ten years for 75 cars... Obviously expanding Amtrak requires many more cars, and a larger production assembly facility...
I rode the Desert Winds from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas during the 1990’s . Beautiful trip coming through Red Rock canyon at sunrise. The train arrived at the Las Vegas station at the end of the Strip.
My brother lives in Chattanooga and currently there is no Amtrak service there. So I am happy to see service out of Atlanta to Chattanooga on the books. I am a great lover of road trips but I am 75 and long-distance driving no longer holds the appeal it use to. So I am grateful for all these new routes. I can grab a Rail Pass and visit everyone I know!
Thanks for the wonderful video, and a huge thanks for not ruining it with crappy background music. I don't know why some people are compelled to add annoying background music throughout their videos.
The prospect of a route that connects the Twin Cities with Des Moines is very appealing to me (family in both cities). When I lived in Chicago, it was nice having an option to get to nearby cities, as I didn't own a car. I can't count the number of times I made the trip between Milwaukee and Chicago via Amtrak. Such a great mode of travel!
I hope that happens! Especially the routes through Idaho and Wyoming. I used to take the train from Pocatello to Boise often and it was very handy to get to meetings in Boise. The other one I used from time to time was across southern Wyoming. It looks like they are restoring some of the older routes. Thanks for showing this guys!
We have been told in NC the Piedmont route hit a record high and has secured funding to study how to refurbish abandoned rails to connect Wilmington NC and Asheville which are both beautiful destinations(but not on this map). Also adding some high speed routes coming through NC! So excited.
In a few weeks I will be taking my very first Amtrak trip. Chicago to Dallas. I have learned a lot about traveling on Amtrak from your videos... Thanks!!!
I live in Vegas but grew up in Maine...I love Orlando and I want to go up and down the California coast... I'm in sign me up !!! Thanks again for these awesome vlogs... be well
Hey guys! Good video with great news! I live in Las Vegas and have just started my Amtrak journeys, so I’m really glad to hear about the new routes. I don’t like to fly so I’m sure I’ll enjoy the train. Thanks to your videos, I decided to book a train trip home this summer to Chicago and beyond! Thank you for the recommendations, helpful tips and beautifully done videos!
I live in Vegas as well and it really sucks to catch the Southwest Chief at 1:30 am in Kingman. So I can't wait for Amtrak to hit Vegas once again. I rode one of the last Amtrak trains to travel through here when they ran from Chicago to L.A. That was in the late 90's.
Before Amtrak's startup in 1971, the prior CNW'S service to Green Bay via Appleton, WI (I now call it the 'I-41 corridor') was very popular with the daytrip crowd, such that it was likely operating at a profit 'above the rails' and Amtrak wanted to take it over at their startup. Other factors prevented it, but most of those factors are no longer issues.i hope that that restoration of service can move forward
I stayed and worked in Columbus OH for almost a year. I was stunned when I found out that major City wasn't served by Amtrak. It's good to see that this may be changed.
@@LauraJdogmom The proposed service between Cincinnati & Cleveland, with 5stops in between, including Dayton & Columbus is planning for 3 daily trains each direction & The Cardinal (Chicago-Washington DC) would become a daily train in each direction.
Love the connection between Vegas, Salt Lake and Boise, have family in each of those cities, the car drive is spectacular, I am sure the Amtrak route is equally spectacular
I live in Las Vegas, and the news right now would indicate that the LV - Bakersfield section is Brightline (High Speed). That's almost definitely happening! This would make getting to LA (in order to then get onto a long distance Amtrak) much easier. Should take about 90min from LV to LA. Sidebar; I leave this Tue. on my first long-haul Amtrak adventure. Southwest Chief, LA to CHI, staying overnight, then Texas Eagle CHI back to LA. Happy traveling!!!
The Brightline high-speed electric rail line will connect Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, running alongside I-15 in California. The Rancho Cucamonga terminus is at a station on the Metrolink line between LA Union Station and San Bernardino. Since the route is along an interstate highway, ROW is already wrapped up and construction could begin this summer, with completion possibly in time for the 2028 Summer Olympics in LA.
@@Jeffrey_Lew yeah, that's right. Just got to LA today, and the bus ride here the driver was telling me about the construction etc. and it was easy to see how much progress has already been made! Definitely excited to see the final product!
@@Bonpeefy fantastic! I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and now that I'm sitting in the Metro Lounge at LA Union Station, it's getting VERY excitingñ
This is such good news. I live in the Las Vegas NV area and the train from LV to Salt Lake City. Is a game changer, I could once again connect to the California Zephyr one of my favorite routes
My daughter and I will be traveling from Erie, PA. to MoorePark in Thousands Oaks CA. and so many of the suggestions you have given will make our trip so much fun. Thank you, This is a Bucket List for me so I'm excited.
Hi Speed railway died an expected natural death in Texas. In any case, it would take AMTRAK wayyy much less time and expense in acquiring the necessary \ld rolling stock and whatever necessary upgrades to the tracks to get it accomplished.
A city the size of Phoenix, AZ that is not directly served by Amtrak is a shame and reinstating the Sunset Limited Route from New Orleans to Jacksonville, FL is also a plus..
I live 100 miles south of Tampa while one of my sons and his family (six children, yes six) live in upstate South Carolina and will soon be moving to Charlotte, North Carolina so I'm very happy to see the proposed connectors to Atlanta from the east coast. I was a teenager the last time I rode Amtrak 50 years ago, and that connector, along with my distaste for the hassles of flying since 9/11, would be a great incentive to ride the rails again as a grandpa.
I'm from Florida and am looking forward to seeing more connections though our state. It's exciting to see many of the planned routes. Europe has such good train travel, I'm glad to see us moving forward!!!!
They used to have The Desert Wind until the 90s that went from Chicago to L.A. with Las Vegas being a major stop. Great scenery through the Sierras and Wasatch mountains and the desert as well.
As a young child in the late 60’s early 70’s I remember riding the Northern Pacific from Seattle to Butte, Montana (usually At Christmas time to see my Aunt) It was so exciting to see the big train engine heavily caked with snow as it pulled into the station. I knew that in a little while I would be riding through that deep snow in the Cascade mountains too ! It would be really nostalgic if Amtrak decided to do this route again !
STILL difficult to get from Charlotte NC to Michigan 😢 And, surprised there isn’t a straight shot from Michigan to Florida with all the elderly snowbirds that travel that route via car and plane twice a year. Right now, it’s 3 trains just to go 650 miles to NC
How exciting! I've riden across country on Amtrak several times both as a child and as an adult.. A couple of those trips were before Amtrak was Amtrak with my mom back in the early 60s I'm guessing. The latest trip was the Empire Builder on the fall of 2023 to Chicago from Portland. I would be interested in the route through Utah and those going to Fort Worth from Chicago. So so many options.
I recently found your channel. Very much enjoy the upbeat and clear presentations. It is also refreshing to see a couple who display mutual respect by not talking over each other. Wishing you many more years of fun traveling adventures!
The Omaha Minneapolis to Dallas is a great idea. I live in Lincoln, NE. Couldn't the route that ends in Newton, KS continue north to Lincoln (the capital city) and then continue on to Omaha - Minneapolis as proposed? If one wants to connect to the CA Zephyr to Denver from the Okla City train, why go all the way to Omaha, only to reverse direction to go through Lincoln to Denver. Lincoln is growing at a rapid pace and is home to the Univ. of NE as well. This would cut the travel distance from Lincoln to Denver by 50 miles. Otherwise, I love the newly proposed Minneapolis-Omaha-Dallas route.
These new routes are exciting for the nation, but Amtrak desperately needs to update their rail cars. Also, I'm bummed that it will still be pretty difficult to travel west from Tampa.
This past December they put out an RFP for a total replacement of all Superliners. Should have proposals in by May or June. Still going to have to nurse the current fleet for several years, but there is hope.
Fun Fact: Amtrak trains once went west from Tampa to St Petersburg, FL (traveling on the north side of Tampa Bay) but that segment was cut in the mid-1980s and replaced with bus service.
So exciting! That Vegas line caught my eye. My Hubby and I want to go to Sedona and the Grande Canyon in about five years. Now we may be able to throw Vegas in the mix!
Thank you for sharing. Because of the sparse nature of air travel in smaller cities, and now the bus system that serviced small towns had dwindled, this is a huge opportunity to connect the nation with viable ground transportation. I think with the existing infrastructure available in literally every town in the nation, this is very good. I really hope they can work with smaller towns and develop "whistle stops", between the major stops. This is exciting.
Good to see that the former Pioneer route (Denver, Cheyenne, Salt Lake City, Boise, Portland, Seattle) might be revived! Back in 1997 when it was discontinued, it was argued that there wasn't enough ridership but all of those cities have experienced massive growth since then. Plus, service through southern Wyoming would be welcome, especially during winter.
Oh my gosh, having new routes out of Albuquerque would be a game-changer! It's crazy that you can't even get to El Paso or Denver from here. To go anywhere, you have to go all the way to L.A. or Chicago. The loop you have to make to get from here to Atlanta is just nuts.
This is great news. Can’t wait to hear when they make a final decision. I use to live in St. George Utah and had to go 4+ hours to catch Amtrak. I currently live in Western Colorado and am less than an hour away from the station in Grand Junction. Loving being so close to the station now. I periodically go back to St. George, so Amtrak going into Las Vegas would be wonderful. I would definitely take Amtrak there instead of flying. Love your channel. You have given me so many ideas and hints for upcoming trips.
I'd really like a route connecting Roanoke, VA to Chattanooga, TN going through Bristol, TN/VA. Right now, I have to drive about 4 hours to Roanoke to ride Amtrak.
@davidthompson4489. Many readers don't realize that getting to Roanoke still leaves you far from connecting to much. But we do have a wide choice of seat selection when we board.
That Cleveland-Louisville can help reduce footprint for the Brent-Spence Bridge Corridor currently being finalized. I hope DOT will take that into consideration.
The Cincinnati-Louisville portion isn't in the final proposals done in December. The 3C & D Corridor (Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, & Dayton) would end the southern portion in Cincinnati & they're planning 3 daily trains in each direction.
As someone currently living in Florida and planning a trip, the line across the Florida panhandle would shorten things up. Right now, I'm looking at going up to DC to go to New Orleans.
I love travelling by train, and I can’t wait to ride some of these new routes! But I’d also like to see more Amtrak thruway connecting bus service to areas without any rail service, especially more remote areas like national parks.
It's nice to see Amtrak is finally considering the options to serve cities that haven't had service in a long while or never had service. In a way, it's beneficial for people in the Upper Midwest to see *some* kind of service rather than depend on the wholly unreliable Greyhound bus service to get anywhere. Comparing train and bus travel shouldn't have to get to this point, but a lot of people would rather take the train instead of suffering long hours on a bus with cramped seats and limited space to move around. So, kudos to Amtrak for making this announcement because it will definitely help with getting some ridership numbers up. On another note, it would be beneficial for Amtrak to consider a partnership with Brightline for the Florida segments as well as the upcoming Brightline West (L.A. to Las Vegas) to give customers MORE options for connections or "last mile" segments.
I guess I've been asleep under a rock. I saw this video this AM and loved it. This is the first time I've seen any of your videos and it caught my eye because of the proposed new routes. I'm 76 and live in Dallas, as a child I used to go by train to Amarillo to see family. The train continued on to Denver. It was the Fort Worth Denver and Rio Grande Rail Road. FW D & RG RR. it went to Fort Worth and backed up to Dallas. but it went away years ago. It was quite an adventure for a 10 year old alone. I'm so happy to see there may be a new train on this route to Amarillo and Denver. Great job to you two, I'll be watching more of your videos. Thank you.
I'm very happy to see Columbus finally get train service (and it looks like its own mini-hub, to boot, with a cross-route all the way from Cleveland to Cincinnati). My biggest disappointment is that nobody seems to be considering linking New England (specifically Boston) with Canada. There had been a few flutters among some observers that the old Boston-Montreal route would return, but I guess not.
I think The Vermonter will reconnect to Montreal. Used to take it to see a Whalers Canadians hockey game. Loved it..New England might have some state supported routes, including New Haven - Springfield - Boston inland route and a Brattleboro to New London passenger train, for college students. Also, would love to see a state supported Waterbury, CT - Hartford - Willimantic - Providence train.
I live near Denver and it would be a huge benefit to be able to go north and south! But I wish Amtrak would reinstate the through train from Port Huron MI through Sarnia to Toronto. It’s really hard, and expensive, to get there right now from Denver. It’s either an $100+ cab ride over the bridge into Sarnia at 1 a.m., or an all-day layover in a not-great part of Buffalo.
I live in the Twin Cities area, and this is the first I've heard of the new ones going to Omaha and Des Moines! That would be amazing! Just last year, we wanted to get on the California Zephyr to Denver, but we decided to drive to Iowa and catch it there, rather than burn a whole day going to Chicago first.
That route through southern Wyoming was live when I was a kid. I used to ride it a lot going from Rock Springs WY to Ogden UT to visit my great grandma. For years my summer, winter, and spring breaks would start and end with that train ride. It was a really pretty route. I live in Salt Lake now and recently lost my ability to drive. It'd be wonderful to be able to take the train back up to Rock Springs to visit friends. I'm the only one in the friend group that works remotely so me being able to come to them would be great since my schedule is much more flexible.
I have been waiting for the Phoenix connection. It has been in the works for awhile, and I hope they can get it finished before too long. Phoenix is a city with a population of over 1 million, and it’s past time it gets rail service.
We can blame Fife Symington for losing the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle service into Union Station in Phoenix. Union Pacific in the meantime has basically abandoned the ROW between Coolidge and Chandler (pulled the track) and the ROW between Gillett and Yuma has fallen into serious disrepair. If these freight companies won't maintain the track in places like these, they should lose the rights to the ROW.
Definitely Atlanta to Nashville. I think Amtrak is considering cities with major sports teams. Vegas as an example. This would also be a plus for the European travelers who are used to traveling on trains.
so excited for the southwest additions! it never made sense why Amtrak didn't go thru Phoenix but passed thru Flagstaff and Tucson. very excited for the Vegas route too, although it would have been nice to connect Vegas to AZ and the rest of the southwest...maybe it's due to the reservations/grand canyon?? great video❤❤❤
Phoenix lost service in 1996 after then governor Fife Symington refused to help the rail companies bring the rail up to Amtrak standards. We have a beautiful historic station in Phoenix that is disused because government refuses to listen.
The Texas Zephyr, Denver to Houston through Amarillo and DFW... Finally a daily train from Dallas to Houston, Amtrak NOT having this is the largest CRIME in Amtrak's history...
My first Amtrak trip was on the Desert Wind/California Zephyr. The Desert Wind went from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City and was a beautiful ride. We arrived in Las Vegas at dinner time, so I didn't see much of Nevada, but the Utah part was beautiful.
Living in southeast Idaho, Amtrak ran through our town back in the 80s before being discontinued. Having an option to Amtrak from my transplant home in Idaho back to my birthplace Pittsburgh would be awesome.
Oh wow y'all are from Atlanta, me too! Just found your channel and it's great, very informative. Always wanted to take an overnight or two train trip but a possible Atlanta to Savannah route would be a frequent flyer for me. Thanks!
Thank you for keeping the map on screen a lot of the time. Other creators have been covering this news and flash the routes for just like a second and it's hard to take it all in that way.
Thank you very much for this information. I am pleased that Amtrak may finally restore train service to Louisville. I refuse to drive a car to, through, or in Atlanta, but I would take a train there in a heartbeat. The routes proposed would give me access to Chicago, Florida, the Northeast, and really the entire country via Chicago. Absolutely fantastic!
Historic route between Denver & Ft. Worth was the line of the Tezas Zephyr. Considered for implementation with possible variant extensions to Billings MT or Houston TX. 2 things: 1. whatever version is established, bring back the historic TEZAS ZEPHYR name. 2. Make it an overnight AutoTrain-style operation. Relatively unpopulated region between DEN-DFW, and the route is practically the same length as the current east coast Auto-Train.
Love that Boise is under consideration, the old Pioneer Route. Can't wait for Amtrak to be a convenient option again. My last Amtrak trip to Chicago, I flew to L.A and caught the train there
I live in San Antonio, and it's currently impossible to get to Miami. I'd have to take the Sunset to NOLA, then travel to DC, just to turn around and ride into Florida. What a PITA. It not only makes it time prohibitive, the cost triples.
Port Huron Michigan only goes to Chicago. to go east from Port Huron either drive 3 hours to Toledo Oh for a 3am train or take 6 hours of Amtrak to Chicago and then head back east
Just found your guys’ channel the other day while searching for Amtrak ideas. Wish we would have known about this channel sooner. Lots of awesome videos and great travel inspiration! Keep up the great work!
Either the return of the former Rock Island Twin Star Rocket or the former Santa Fe Texas Chief, both went to Houston. I also desire the return of the former Burlington Texas Zephyr, Denver to Houston via Colorado Springs, Amarillo, and DFW... The Burlington and the Rock Island shared the same tracks south of DFW...
This is very encouraging news, especially regarding the former Desert Wind route to Las Vegas! My wife and I took our first-ever train from Massachusetts to Las Vegas over 30 years ago to visit her brother. It was during January and the ride through the snow-covered Rocky Mountains and along the Colorado River were breathtaking. The Desert Wind separated from the California Zephyr in Salt Lake City during the night and while most of the travel to Las Vegas was in the dark, we still enjoyed the early morning daybreak views before reaching Freemont Station. Thank you both for your entertaining and informative narration regarding Amtrak and train travel in general.
Amtrak should hire you two as consultants. Great job.
They probably are because all that traveling costs alot so makes u wonder
Or ambassadors.
Woo-hoo! This is exciting! Do you know when they hope to make their final decisions about which routes to add? Do you know if there are already Railroad tracks set in place in these new areas?
@raymond8528 wonder about what?
@ValerieJGarrison There's likely plenty of freight routes. 😊
Awesome. I find traveling on Amtrak so much more comfortable than flying.
More expensive but worth it, especially if you're a plus size.
I am retired from the airlines and can fly for free but would rather pay to take the train.
I travel on Amtrak which train travel is far better than the bus, driving and flying domestically in a cramped sardine can.
FAA treats you like a prisoner. Rail treats you like a passenger.
Same, I only fly in emergencies but I take the train when I Can.
Connecting Nashville to Atlanta would be big!
@luvinlife90 I think that connecting Nashville to the rail system like this will take it to the next level. And it would be nice not to have to fly or drive every where!🥰
Connecting Chicago to Florida would be even bigger.
With 30 trips it can work if a handful nope
Nashville to Atlanta: Currently, by the time you manage getting to the airport an hour ahead for security, manage parking or ride, take the actual flight and do it all again in reverse, it's quicker to drive.
Then to Memphis and the west wo going to Chicago.
Florida has a huge senior population. Seniors would likely take advantage of the Amtrak service and a real money maker!
There will be very little need for Amtrak in Florida as Brightline expands to Tampa and Jacksonville.
SW Fl would be great too
@@davidjackson7281 oh, I heard of Brightline in Ocala! It would be wonderful.
Seniors are the main reason that the auto train exists. Millions of snow birds bringing their cars to and from Florida for the season. It's better and cheaper than using an auto transport company and flying down separately.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
If Amtrak could simply clean and properly maintain their existing rail cars, it would certainly help. Any new routes will also help and I hope some of these come true.
I have found that the Long Distance trains are as clean as the major airlines. The Northeast Corridor, not so much.
@@The_DuMont_Network I agree--in both cases I bring clorox wipes for my space.
@@emileebell2038 Heck, I bring baby wipes for buses and airlines as well... I even stock baby wipes in the glove box in my car for nasty restrooms at seedy fast food joints, gas stations, and rest areas... If only there were more Buc-ees....
If only the government would properly fund them.
@@rayrdellewha?! you want to deprive Zelensky and his regime of their billions of $$ from Biden?
What would we do without you guys? I love these Amtrak latest videos!!! St Louis to Indianapolis and Birmingham to Nashville to Indianapolis would be amazing.
That sounds like the Wabash Cannonball
Love that the Wyoming route is back in consideration. Rode the old Wyoming to Portland route many times in the late 70's before it was moved to Colorado. Hope it happens.
Amtrack service to Las Vegas was abandoned in the very early 1990's, I never understood that - I worked downtown at the California Hotel and the train from Los Angeles was always packed. I would love to see Amtrack back in Vegas.
Bright line is building a line from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. Already doing preliminary right of way studies.
It's Amtrak, not Amtrack.
@@PRR-xx2hp Makes one wonder why the government left the c out. I mean, they don't call the highways Inerstates.
You will love Brightline!
Great news Amtrak.....the north Florida route is way over due. The route from the coast to Nashville /Louisville could be a interesting one.
Its exciting for the potential of full Gulf Breeze restoration from Mobile to Tally
Love you 2. I learn something with each video. Big train fan here. Keep it on track! Thanks!
Thanks so much!
Finally, Las Vegas! And the high-speed rail is in the works too. 🙌🏾
Won't have to catch the train in Kingman in the middle of the night! Yes I can get behind the new routes! The Amtrak use to run through Vegas until the late 90's. Nice to have it back!!
Woo hoo! Tennessee!!!!! Right now it just hits Memphis in the corner. Leaving out of Nashville will be amazing.
Agree completely!!!
Being able to take the train from Los Angeles all the way to Jacksonville is a big one for me. This restores the country’s only ocean to ocean route that was broken up by hurricane Rita a few years ago. I’ll be one of the first persons to take train once the full route is restored. It will figure prominently in my circular trip to ride the outer Amtrak routes and VIA rails Canadian service. Also adding another train through Cincinnati would be a great idea. A daylight arrival and departure there would be a welcome addition.
If you look at the map however, it looks like it’s not a through train. It’s showing the New Orleans to Mobile on Gulf Coast Passenger Rail. I’m not sure if that’s just an Amtrak train using their rails or if you would have to change trains. That would not be popular for just a few hours journey.
It was Hurricane Katrina that stopped Amtrak service East of New Orleans. From Wikipedia: "On August 29, 2005, the Sunset Limited route was truncated east of San Antonio, Texas, as a result of damage to trackage in the Gulf Coast area caused by Hurricane Katrina. In late October 2005, service was restored between San Antonio and New Orleans, as the line through Louisiana had been repaired. Service east of New Orleans has remained indefinitely suspended despite CSX Transportation completing repair of the track in January 2006"
@@netsurfrdude I’m aware of why it was stopped. The damage to the bridges and trestles was extensive. But as you wrote, it didn’t take CSX long to get those repaired as too much money rides on that busy East-West corridor. But I never have understood why the passenger services wasn’t restored. Was there that little traffic from Jacksonville to New Orleans?
Hope you have a great trip!
@@Bill_N_ATX Amtrak stole THREE Superliner train sets to cover cars damaged beyond repair from derailments. There have been more derailments during the twenty years after Hurricane Katrina. As I noted above in another thread, Amtrak barely has enough locos and cars to sustain present operations, never mind expanding Amtrak with more trains. Locos and cars do NOT pop out of thin air like magic. Keep in mind it took CAF ten years to produce all of the new 75 Viewliner II cars before Amtrak could put them into service... Ten years for 75 cars... Obviously expanding Amtrak requires many more cars, and a larger production assembly facility...
Very exciting! Thank you! Great to see the proposals N to S in the middle of the country!
Watching this video from my roomette on the Lakeshore Limited.
You were my inspiration to take this trip.
Can't wait to do it again. Thanks!
Thanks for keeping us up to speed. Hope all these new routes happen sooner than later. I'm not getting any younger. You guys are the Amtrak gurus.
I rode the Desert Winds from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas during the 1990’s . Beautiful trip coming through Red Rock canyon at sunrise. The train arrived at the Las Vegas station at the end of the Strip.
My brother lives in Chattanooga and currently there is no Amtrak service there. So I am happy to see service out of Atlanta to Chattanooga on the books. I am a great lover of road trips but I am 75 and long-distance driving no longer holds the appeal it use to. So I am grateful for all these new routes. I can grab a Rail Pass and visit everyone I know!
Thanks for the wonderful video, and a huge thanks for not ruining it with crappy background music.
I don't know why some people are compelled to add annoying background music throughout their videos.
The prospect of a route that connects the Twin Cities with Des Moines is very appealing to me (family in both cities). When I lived in Chicago, it was nice having an option to get to nearby cities, as I didn't own a car. I can't count the number of times I made the trip between Milwaukee and Chicago via Amtrak. Such a great mode of travel!
Why stop at Des Moines, the former Rock Island Twin Star Rocket went all the way south to Houston through KC, and DFW...
I hope that happens! Especially the routes through Idaho and Wyoming. I used to take the train from Pocatello to Boise often and it was very handy to get to meetings in Boise. The other one I used from time to time was across southern Wyoming. It looks like they are restoring some of the older routes. Thanks for showing this guys!
Train service coming back to Chattanooga again, Pardon me boys, is that the chattanooga choo choo, track twenty nine
Boy can you give me a shine!!
We have been told in NC the Piedmont route hit a record high and has secured funding to study how to refurbish abandoned rails to connect Wilmington NC and Asheville which are both beautiful destinations(but not on this map). Also adding some high speed routes coming through NC! So excited.
In a few weeks I will be taking my very first Amtrak trip. Chicago to Dallas. I have learned a lot about traveling on Amtrak from your videos... Thanks!!!
Vegas from Salt Lake is huge
Saints & Sinners Express
I would like to see one run from Boise to Los Angeles
@@jeppajeppson2900 Brightline West will build the Los Angeles-LS Vegas corridor.
Hello from the Cardinal route. Gotten up multiple times at 3 a.m. for the ride East.
I live in Vegas but grew up in Maine...I love Orlando and I want to go up and down the California coast... I'm in sign me up !!! Thanks again for these awesome vlogs... be well
Hey guys! Good video with great news! I live in Las Vegas and have just started my Amtrak journeys, so I’m really glad to hear about the new routes. I don’t like to fly so I’m sure I’ll enjoy the train. Thanks to your videos, I decided to book a train trip home this summer to Chicago and beyond! Thank you for the recommendations, helpful tips and beautifully done videos!
I live in Vegas as well and it really sucks to catch the Southwest Chief at 1:30 am in Kingman. So I can't wait for Amtrak to hit Vegas once again. I rode one of the last Amtrak trains to travel through here when they ran from Chicago to L.A. That was in the late 90's.
Before Amtrak's startup in 1971, the prior CNW'S service to Green Bay via Appleton, WI (I now call it the 'I-41 corridor') was very popular with the daytrip crowd, such that it was likely operating at a profit 'above the rails' and Amtrak wanted to take it over at their startup. Other factors prevented it, but most of those factors are no longer issues.i hope that that restoration of service can move forward
I stayed and worked in Columbus OH for almost a year. I was stunned when I found out that major City wasn't served by Amtrak. It's good to see that this may be changed.
Also nice that it looks like Cincy and Columbus might be connected. Now... will routes arrive sometime other than 1am - 3am? Time will tell.
@@sircharlesmormont9300 That would be nice, wouldn't it, and maybe more than three times per week?
@@LauraJdogmom The proposed service between Cincinnati & Cleveland, with 5stops in between, including Dayton & Columbus is planning for 3 daily trains each direction & The Cardinal (Chicago-Washington DC) would become a daily train in each direction.
@@tpajay That would be awesome.
Try living in the 5th largest city in the US without rail service for almost 30 years. But it's a dry heat. Phoenix is home.
Love the connection between Vegas, Salt Lake and Boise, have family in each of those cities, the car drive is spectacular, I am sure the Amtrak route is equally spectacular
When I was very young (maybe 3-4 years old in 1965) rode the train from seattle to SLC. Hard to believe that route has been impossible for so long.
I live in Las Vegas, and the news right now would indicate that the LV - Bakersfield section is Brightline (High Speed). That's almost definitely happening! This would make getting to LA (in order to then get onto a long distance Amtrak) much easier. Should take about 90min from LV to LA.
Sidebar; I leave this Tue. on my first long-haul Amtrak adventure. Southwest Chief, LA to CHI, staying overnight, then Texas Eagle CHI back to LA. Happy traveling!!!
The Brightline high-speed electric rail line will connect Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, running alongside I-15 in California. The Rancho Cucamonga terminus is at a station on the Metrolink line between LA Union Station and San Bernardino. Since the route is along an interstate highway, ROW is already wrapped up and construction could begin this summer, with completion possibly in time for the 2028 Summer Olympics in LA.
Just did St Paul > Chi then Chi > Flagstaff on the Southwest Chief. My first train trip ever, best decision I ever made!
@@Jeffrey_Lew yeah, that's right. Just got to LA today, and the bus ride here the driver was telling me about the construction etc. and it was easy to see how much progress has already been made! Definitely excited to see the final product!
@@Bonpeefy fantastic! I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and now that I'm sitting in the Metro Lounge at LA Union Station, it's getting VERY excitingñ
This is such good news. I live in the Las Vegas NV area and the train from LV to Salt Lake City. Is a game changer, I could once again connect to the California Zephyr one of my favorite routes
Connecting to Phoenix is so overdue. Great update, thanks!
Not going to happen, UP has no track running from YUMA to PHX, The bridges have been burnt and the track as been pulled up in lots of locations.
@@IMRROcomWell that sucks.... one of the largest cities in America not having an Amtrak station is a disgrace.
Service from the Louisville KY again will be great. Would make my dream of train travel more accessible.
My daughter and I will be traveling from Erie, PA. to MoorePark in Thousands Oaks CA. and so many of the suggestions you have given will make our trip so much fun. Thank you, This is a Bucket List for me so I'm excited.
Excited to see Texas so heavily represented on the list! But yet slightly disappointed it is not high speed. Thanks for the updates!
If any place could use high speed it would probably be Texas 😅
Hi Speed railway died an expected natural death in Texas. In any case, it would take AMTRAK wayyy much less time and expense in acquiring the necessary \ld rolling stock and whatever necessary upgrades to the tracks to get it accomplished.
A city the size of Phoenix, AZ that is not directly served by Amtrak is a shame and reinstating the Sunset Limited Route from New Orleans to Jacksonville, FL is also a plus..
Not going to happen, UP has no track running from YUMA to PHX, The bridges have been burnt and the track as been pulled up in lots of locations.
I live 100 miles south of Tampa while one of my sons and his family (six children, yes six) live in upstate South Carolina and will soon be moving to Charlotte, North Carolina so I'm very happy to see the proposed connectors to Atlanta from the east coast. I was a teenager the last time I rode Amtrak 50 years ago, and that connector, along with my distaste for the hassles of flying since 9/11, would be a great incentive to ride the rails again as a grandpa.
I'm from Florida and am looking forward to seeing more connections though our state. It's exciting to see many of the planned routes. Europe has such good train travel, I'm glad to see us moving forward!!!!
This is great! Hope it happens in my lifetime! It would be great to go to Las Vegas by train. Thanks for this update on possible future Amtrak routes.
I've been following the Amtrak Vegas situation too. I don't fly....
@@vikingsoftpaw Same here!
They used to have The Desert Wind until the 90s that went from Chicago to L.A. with Las Vegas being a major stop. Great scenery through the Sierras and Wasatch mountains and the desert as well.
@@moweems5802 That sounds like it was a great experiences. Hope Amtrak does something like that again.
As a young child in the late 60’s early 70’s I remember riding the Northern Pacific from Seattle to Butte, Montana (usually At Christmas time to see my Aunt) It was so exciting to see the big train engine heavily caked with snow as it pulled into the station. I knew that in a little while I would be riding through that deep snow in the Cascade mountains too ! It would be really nostalgic if Amtrak decided to do this route again !
STILL difficult to get from Charlotte NC to Michigan 😢 And, surprised there isn’t a straight shot from Michigan to Florida with all the elderly snowbirds that travel that route via car and plane twice a year. Right now, it’s 3 trains just to go 650 miles to NC
U helped me enjoy my 1st 3day sleeper car experience. 🎉Thank U so much, Love U ❤ Rob and Allie!! Can't wait to hit the rails again 😊
How exciting! I've riden across country on Amtrak several times both as a child and as an adult.. A couple of those trips were before Amtrak was Amtrak with my mom back in the early 60s I'm guessing. The latest trip was the Empire Builder on the fall of 2023 to Chicago from Portland. I would be interested in the route through Utah and those going to Fort Worth from Chicago. So so many options.
I recently found your channel. Very much enjoy the upbeat and clear presentations. It is also refreshing to see a couple who display mutual respect by not talking over each other. Wishing you many more years of fun traveling adventures!
I live in Nebraska, so I love the Omaha Minneapolis north south type routes
The Omaha Minneapolis to Dallas is a great idea. I live in Lincoln, NE. Couldn't the route that ends in Newton, KS continue north to Lincoln (the capital city) and then continue on to Omaha - Minneapolis as proposed? If one wants to connect to the CA Zephyr to Denver from the Okla City train, why go all the way to Omaha, only to reverse direction to go through Lincoln to Denver. Lincoln is growing at a rapid pace and is home to the Univ. of NE as well. This would cut the travel distance from Lincoln to Denver by 50 miles. Otherwise, I love the newly proposed Minneapolis-Omaha-Dallas route.
Wonderful. We travel from just East of Nashville up to our daughters in Chicago. So glad to see a route closer to us.
These new routes are exciting for the nation, but Amtrak desperately needs to update their rail cars. Also, I'm bummed that it will still be pretty difficult to travel west from Tampa.
Yeah, those Viewliners don't do well in deep water
This past December they put out an RFP for a total replacement of all Superliners. Should have proposals in by May or June. Still going to have to nurse the current fleet for several years, but there is hope.
@@The_DuMont_Network AmphibiousTrak, the first BoatTrain from Tampa to Houston...🤓
Fun Fact: Amtrak trains once went west from Tampa to St Petersburg, FL (traveling on the north side of Tampa Bay) but that segment was cut in the mid-1980s and replaced with bus service.
So exciting! That Vegas line caught my eye. My Hubby and I want to go to Sedona and the Grande Canyon in about five years. Now we may be able to throw Vegas in the mix!
If this happens for AZ, it would help so much! I most likely won't happen in my lifetime, but it would be a great idea! ❤
Thank you for sharing. Because of the sparse nature of air travel in smaller cities, and now the bus system that serviced small towns had dwindled, this is a huge opportunity to connect the nation with viable ground transportation. I think with the existing infrastructure available in literally every town in the nation, this is very good. I really hope they can work with smaller towns and develop "whistle stops", between the major stops. This is exciting.
Good to see that the former Pioneer route (Denver, Cheyenne, Salt Lake City, Boise, Portland, Seattle) might be revived! Back in 1997 when it was discontinued, it was argued that there wasn't enough ridership but all of those cities have experienced massive growth since then. Plus, service through southern Wyoming would be welcome, especially during winter.
Thanks so much for this update. It does look like Nashville is getting Amtrack back. Yay 😃.
Oh my gosh, having new routes out of Albuquerque would be a game-changer! It's crazy that you can't even get to El Paso or Denver from here. To go anywhere, you have to go all the way to L.A. or Chicago. The loop you have to make to get from here to Atlanta is just nuts.
So True! Because I don't drive, this could be very beneficial to me.
This is great news. Can’t wait to hear when they make a final decision. I use to live in St. George Utah and had to go 4+ hours to catch Amtrak. I currently live in Western Colorado and am less than an hour away from the station in Grand Junction. Loving being so close to the station now. I periodically go back to St. George, so Amtrak going into Las Vegas would be wonderful. I would definitely take Amtrak there instead of flying. Love your channel. You have given me so many ideas and hints for upcoming trips.
I'd really like a route connecting Roanoke, VA to Chattanooga, TN going through Bristol, TN/VA. Right now, I have to drive about 4 hours to Roanoke to ride Amtrak.
@davidthompson4489. Many readers don't realize that getting to Roanoke still leaves you far from connecting to much. But we do have a wide choice of seat selection when we board.
That Cleveland-Louisville can help reduce footprint for the Brent-Spence Bridge Corridor currently being finalized. I hope DOT will take that into consideration.
The Cincinnati-Louisville portion isn't in the final proposals done in December. The 3C & D Corridor (Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, & Dayton) would end the southern portion in Cincinnati & they're planning 3 daily trains in each direction.
As someone currently living in Florida and planning a trip, the line across the Florida panhandle would shorten things up. Right now, I'm looking at going up to DC to go to New Orleans.
I love travelling by train, and I can’t wait to ride some of these new routes! But I’d also like to see more Amtrak thruway connecting bus service to areas without any rail service, especially more remote areas like national parks.
It's nice to see Amtrak is finally considering the options to serve cities that haven't had service in a long while or never had service. In a way, it's beneficial for people in the Upper Midwest to see *some* kind of service rather than depend on the wholly unreliable Greyhound bus service to get anywhere. Comparing train and bus travel shouldn't have to get to this point, but a lot of people would rather take the train instead of suffering long hours on a bus with cramped seats and limited space to move around. So, kudos to Amtrak for making this announcement because it will definitely help with getting some ridership numbers up. On another note, it would be beneficial for Amtrak to consider a partnership with Brightline for the Florida segments as well as the upcoming Brightline West (L.A. to Las Vegas) to give customers MORE options for connections or "last mile" segments.
I guess I've been asleep under a rock. I saw this video this AM and loved it. This is the first time I've seen any of your videos and it caught my eye because of the proposed new routes. I'm 76 and live in Dallas, as a child I used to go by train to Amarillo to see family. The train continued on to Denver. It was the Fort Worth Denver and Rio Grande Rail Road. FW D & RG RR. it went to Fort Worth and backed up to Dallas. but it went away years ago. It was quite an adventure for a 10 year old alone. I'm so happy to see there may be a new train on this route to Amarillo and Denver. Great job to you two, I'll be watching more of your videos. Thank you.
I'm very happy to see Columbus finally get train service (and it looks like its own mini-hub, to boot, with a cross-route all the way from Cleveland to Cincinnati). My biggest disappointment is that nobody seems to be considering linking New England (specifically Boston) with Canada. There had been a few flutters among some observers that the old Boston-Montreal route would return, but I guess not.
I think The Vermonter will reconnect to Montreal. Used to take it to see a Whalers Canadians hockey game. Loved it..New England might have some state supported routes, including New Haven - Springfield - Boston inland route and a Brattleboro to New London passenger train, for college students. Also, would love to see a state supported Waterbury, CT - Hartford - Willimantic - Providence train.
Excited to see Chattanooga get connected to anyone! Atlanta and Memphis are exciting possibilities.
My brother lives in Chattanooga. I live in Vegas. So I too am exited!!
I live near Denver and it would be a huge benefit to be able to go north and south! But I wish Amtrak would reinstate the through train from Port Huron MI through Sarnia to Toronto. It’s really hard, and expensive, to get there right now from Denver. It’s either an $100+ cab ride over the bridge into Sarnia at 1 a.m., or an all-day layover in a not-great part of Buffalo.
I live in the Twin Cities area, and this is the first I've heard of the new ones going to Omaha and Des Moines! That would be amazing! Just last year, we wanted to get on the California Zephyr to Denver, but we decided to drive to Iowa and catch it there, rather than burn a whole day going to Chicago first.
I will be crossing my fingers for OKC/Tulsa & Dallas/Ft. Worth!!
Us in KC hoping too.
@@davehughesfarm7983 I know what you mean. It would make Amtrak travel a real posibility for those of us in the heartland!
Same! I’m rooting for Tulsa to OKC route
They used to have the Desert Wind from Salt Lake City to Los Angeles Via Las Vegas,
Low speed rail fine. Bigger problem is freight delays and maintenance issues.
That route through southern Wyoming was live when I was a kid. I used to ride it a lot going from Rock Springs WY to Ogden UT to visit my great grandma. For years my summer, winter, and spring breaks would start and end with that train ride. It was a really pretty route.
I live in Salt Lake now and recently lost my ability to drive. It'd be wonderful to be able to take the train back up to Rock Springs to visit friends. I'm the only one in the friend group that works remotely so me being able to come to them would be great since my schedule is much more flexible.
I have been waiting for the Phoenix connection. It has been in the works for awhile, and I hope they can get it finished before too long. Phoenix is a city with a population of over 1 million, and it’s past time it gets rail service.
We can blame Fife Symington for losing the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle service into Union Station in Phoenix. Union Pacific in the meantime has basically abandoned the ROW between Coolidge and Chandler (pulled the track) and the ROW between Gillett and Yuma has fallen into serious disrepair. If these freight companies won't maintain the track in places like these, they should lose the rights to the ROW.
Great! You two are awesome, yes Amtrak should definitely hire you as senior advisors! Keep up the good work.
Being able to get to Las Vegas by train sounds interesting
Excellent talking points, thanks. You clearly got a lot of folks thinking about potential new routes. So, more of this type of update please?
This would be a huge win for Columbus and the State of Ohio in general!
Being able to go to Detroit more directly would be nice, too!
Definitely Atlanta to Nashville. I think Amtrak is considering cities with major sports teams. Vegas as an example. This would also be a plus for the European travelers who are used to traveling on trains.
I can not wait for Amtrak Trains going from Asheville NC to Serveville TN. And Amtrak Trains from Savannah GA to Atlanta Georgia.
so excited for the southwest additions! it never made sense why Amtrak didn't go thru Phoenix but passed thru Flagstaff and Tucson. very excited for the Vegas route too, although it would have been nice to connect Vegas to AZ and the rest of the southwest...maybe it's due to the reservations/grand canyon?? great video❤❤❤
Phoenix lost service in 1996 after then governor Fife Symington refused to help the rail companies bring the rail up to Amtrak standards. We have a beautiful historic station in Phoenix that is disused because government refuses to listen.
Bring back the Desert Wind ( LA to SLC) & the Pioneer. (PDX to DEN)
The Texas Zephyr, Denver to Houston through Amarillo and DFW... Finally a daily train from Dallas to Houston, Amtrak NOT having this is the largest CRIME in Amtrak's history...
This is so great. Our kids live in between Memphis and Nashville. Which is a two hour drive either way. Thanks for the up date.
No Phoenix to Las Vegas!
My first Amtrak trip was on the Desert Wind/California Zephyr. The Desert Wind went from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City and was a beautiful ride. We arrived in Las Vegas at dinner time, so I didn't see much of Nevada, but the Utah part was beautiful.
Dream on. I’ll believe it when built. But the maps are nice.
Living in southeast Idaho, Amtrak ran through our town back in the 80s before being discontinued. Having an option to Amtrak from my transplant home in Idaho back to my birthplace Pittsburgh would be awesome.
In fact, Autotrain could be extended in an East-West direction for densely settled routes.
Oh wow y'all are from Atlanta, me too! Just found your channel and it's great, very informative. Always wanted to take an overnight or two train trip but a possible Atlanta to Savannah route would be a frequent flyer for me. Thanks!
Thank you for keeping the map on screen a lot of the time. Other creators have been covering this news and flash the routes for just like a second and it's hard to take it all in that way.
Wow!!! Thrilled about the southeast connection!!!!
Thank you very much for this information. I am pleased that Amtrak may finally restore train service to Louisville. I refuse to drive a car to, through, or in Atlanta, but I would take a train there in a heartbeat. The routes proposed would give me access to Chicago, Florida, the Northeast, and really the entire country via Chicago. Absolutely fantastic!
Thank you! I always enjoy your videos and information for riding Amtrak. I hope Nashville,TN. is a new route for trains. Safe travels!!!
Historic route between Denver & Ft. Worth was the line of the Tezas Zephyr. Considered for implementation with possible variant extensions to Billings MT or Houston TX.
2 things: 1. whatever version is established, bring back the historic TEZAS ZEPHYR name.
2. Make it an overnight AutoTrain-style operation.
Relatively unpopulated region between DEN-DFW, and the route is practically the same length as the current east coast Auto-Train.
Thanks for the lovely mad presentation. Good focus on what it is, the routes. Good you joy train travelling!!
I have traveled from Dallas, TX to Providence, Rhode Island, a few times, to visit my family, and friends, in RI, Ct, and Mass. It was great.
I live near Sioux Falls, so that addition would make me VERY excited!!
Love that Boise is under consideration, the old Pioneer Route. Can't wait for Amtrak to be a convenient option again. My last Amtrak trip to Chicago, I flew to L.A and caught the train there
so love this - grew up in a railroad family in MT in 70s when AMTRK still went through Billings / Miles City
I live in San Antonio, and it's currently impossible to get to Miami. I'd have to take the Sunset to NOLA, then travel to DC, just to turn around and ride into Florida. What a PITA. It not only makes it time prohibitive, the cost triples.
Port Huron Michigan only goes to Chicago. to go east from Port Huron either drive 3 hours to Toledo Oh for a 3am train or take 6 hours of Amtrak to Chicago and then head back east
Just found your guys’ channel the other day while searching for Amtrak ideas. Wish we would have known about this channel sooner. Lots of awesome videos and great travel inspiration! Keep up the great work!
The completion of north-south Amtrak through the state of Oklahoma is a great idea. There was a route in the 1970s but it was discontinued.
Either the return of the former Rock Island Twin Star Rocket or the former Santa Fe Texas Chief, both went to Houston. I also desire the return of the former Burlington Texas Zephyr, Denver to Houston via Colorado Springs, Amarillo, and DFW... The Burlington and the Rock Island shared the same tracks south of DFW...
This is very encouraging news, especially regarding the former Desert Wind route to Las Vegas! My wife and I took our first-ever train from Massachusetts to Las Vegas over 30 years ago to visit her brother. It was during January and the ride through the snow-covered Rocky Mountains and along the Colorado River were breathtaking. The Desert Wind separated from the California Zephyr in Salt Lake City during the night and while most of the travel to Las Vegas was in the dark, we still enjoyed the early morning daybreak views before reaching Freemont Station. Thank you both for your entertaining and informative narration regarding Amtrak and train travel in general.