Talvisota (The Winter War): My Full Length Reaction (Part 2/2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I'll be sharing my genuine reaction and thoughts about Talvisota. Talvisota, also known as The Winter War, is a powerful and historically significant war drama set during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union in 1939. Join me as I dive deep into Talvisota, the captivating storyline, mesmerizing performances, and breathtaking cinematography that make this movie a must-watch. Get ready for an insightful and heartfelt review that will connect you with the raw emotions conveyed by this masterpiece
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This Movie scores 7.6/10 on IMDB. This Movie was written by Pekka Parikka and Anti Tuuri. This Movie was directed by Pekka Parikka. The full list of the Stars of the Movie is available at www.imdb.com/t.... This Movie was produced by Marko Rohr and National- Filmi OY. The copyright to the full original content is held by National-Filmi OY. The copyright for this video is held exclusively by Jay's Retro Reactions.
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Sweden sent like 10.000 volontiers during the war. Politically it was prohibited in sweden, but inofficially supported finland. We also sent aircraft and other weapons… We supported finland, but it was not our proudest moment to say the least.
Hey Michael - thanks for watching the video and providing the Swedish view. The way I look at it the Politicians took one very short sighted view but the People via the Volunteers spoke with their actions. I think it was short sighted by the Politicians though as if Finland fell it was only a matter of time before Stalin turned his eyes on Sweden in my view but that's just an opinion. Have a good evening.
@jone. Germany send nothing in winterwar! They are ally with Russkies 1939. They even blocked arms deliveries from, for example, Italy and captured Finnish merchant ships
That was my understanding as well to be honest but I say that as an outsider so I could be wrong.
@@jone8626 Germany did not send weapons, but blocked, for example, Italys arms shipments through its passage. This is how the Fiat fighters were laid out and arrived only in the last days of the war. About 1/3 of their fighters came from Sweden as volunteers. Air squardon 19.
Yes sweden send Svenska Frivilligkåren about one brigade of troops and also send Flygflottilj 19 (flight attachment 19) to Finland, which had whole air defence in Northern Finland on its responsibility. And those guys did pretty well even their planes were old. Least two guys were captured too and soviets tried to make them spies, there is even book about, shame I don’t recall its name right now.
At that time, the Finnish army did not have very good equipment, but the men were iron
Thanks mate for watching the video and for the comment. I mentioned in my commentary on the Unknown Soldier that they seemed to be farmers etc. and how farmers were the toughest people I knew as well - built of pure raw strength
Weapons were missing because the money was diverted to the navy and air force. The defense budget was only bigger in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. If compared to European countries. The weapons had to be ordered from Finland even though there was no construction skill, but had to be bought either a license or subcontracted from abroad.
Thanks mate for the additional context - much appreciated!
@@harrilaamanen5910 ehemm... what navy, what air force? ""The naval operations that took place in the Winter War are the battles between the Finnish Navy and the ships of the Soviet Navy and the Finnish coastal artillery in the Winter War from 30 November 1939 to 13 March 1940. The operations were mainly concentrated in the Gulf of Finland. These naval operations were mainly Finnish mine-mining and attacks by Soviet ships against Finnish coastal batteries"" AND
""The Winter War was the first real test of the Finnish Air Force. The initial situation was very difficult, because despite several presentations by the Air Force, the state had neglected the material readiness of its aircraft fleet. In particular, the number of fighter planes capable of combat was alarmingly low. The Air Force's training and will to fight were, on the other hand, at a high level. During the years 1934 and 1935, the Finnish Air Force was the first in the world to introduce modern divisional tactics, which other countries only adopted with war experience. Finnish fighters flew in loose pairs, where the distance between the planes was 100-150 meters, and in a swarm, the distance between the pairs was 300-400 meters. Skilled additional advantages were systematically practiced shooting accuracy and perfect machine handling skills.
The Soviet Union had about 1,500 combat aircraft, i.e. clearly more than a tenfold numerical superiority. Finland had only about 40 Fokker D.XXI fighters, about 15 Blenheim bombers and sixty obsolete reconnaissance planes.""
@@harrilaamanen5910 google if you don't care history.
Its based on a book, that was based on talks with veterans, war diaries etc. some real stuff, some artistic liberties
Thanks again mate for the information - someone else mentioned it was a trilogy of novels if that's correct
Movie is based on book that is based on experiences of troops (not everything that is depicted happened to same guys necessarily, more like collection). But there were historical people and units in this. E.g. regimental commander Laurila is my distant relative and my grandfather served in unit that was relieved by these guys and as in movie relieved them.
Thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information and indeed your own families story and your connection to it. I appreciate it!
Whent that regiment went to war its strenght was 2 500 men. At the end of the war, the strenght was 366, including officers and maintenance.
That is some casualty rate mate - but not surprising given the differences in force size and equipment available.
About the bayonets - Finns were (and are) trusting our puukko knife. It's very short, but very nimble "silencer" we use it as Gurkha their kukri's. We are rather used to use it...
Hey Pretosaur thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information. Prior to making the reaction I had never heard of the Puukko but I have learned about it since from kind commentors such as yourself. Funny you use the comparison with the Gurkhas as that is the same comparison I used on other comments - great minds think alike ha ha. Have a good evening.
In the beginning of the war the troops were issued long knive-like bayonets, but the troops thought them to be inconvenient and throw them away. Later on they designed a shorter version, which was better, but still puukko was a weapon of choice for most. Especially these Ostrobothnians were notorious for using those to "settle things up" even in peacetime...
Thanks Makedz for watching the video, the comment and the extra information on the use of bayonets vs the puukko. I'm biased of course as I trained with Bayonets and would much prefer them over a knife but by the same token someone who has experience / training with a knife would probably prefer it over a bayonet.
The Moisin bayonet is Napoleonic-style rat-tail with dull screwdriver point.
It is only good for stabbing charge and nearly useless for any defensive fight, or standing duel because there is no cutting blade
Thanks Jano - that may very well explain it then. I know another commenter said they were also prone to getting lodged as well which is definitely what you would not want in a hand to hand situation.
Tomorrow 6.12 is our independence day, it is the most precious holiday that is worth celebrating, my father was there too, and I'm always moved to tears when I watch this movie
Thanks Karihuhta for watching the video, your comment and for sharing your personal story in relation to this Movie. I actually was aiming to have this Movie out before Dec 06 but as a happy coincidence it seems I released the video on the anniversary of the Winter War too which I didn't know until People had pointed it out to me. Normally, I don't post my full length reactions on here, only on Patreon but from one small Nation that had to struggle for it's freedom to another Nation in similar circumstances, I decided to do it as my way of showing respect for Finnish Independence Day. Enjoy your celebrations mate.
Unknown Soldier told the story mostly from Eastern finns' perspective, but in this movie all the guys are from Ostrobothnia, which is in (north)western Finland, so the reaction of the home front IS pretty much spot on. :D
Ostrobothnians really were/are kind of stoic, more introverted, tough and not often wanting to show their emotions openly, while Eastern finns are much more expressive and extroverted. So it's just a culture thing between differend "tribes" of finns.
Hey cguerillia - thanks for watching the video and the comment. A few people in the live chat during the premiere made that observation to me as well so put my commentary down about the lack of emotion being due to my own lack of knowledge of the different characteristics of the various Finnish Tribes. It makes more sense now that this was clarified for me.
Nää on etelä-pohojanmaalta kauhavalta. Tiiän ku on sanottu ja asun itekki täs lähellä nii kuulen aksentista. Eli ei northwestern vaan midwestern
Most of the chareters in the Unkown Soldier were Tavastians and the rest were all over Finland. Ostrobothnia, Savonia, Nyland etc. Rokka and Susi were the only "eastern Finns", Karelians. Anyway, those are the common stereotypes about bothnians and karelians. The former are quiet and serious while the latter are talkative and cheerful.
Thanks mate - I didn't have that knowledge before the reaction so hopefully my comments made sense in light of the information I had at the time.
What does that even mean "tribes of Finns"? There are no tribes of Finns, only people who speak Finnish. At one time the Finnish language was confined to the northwest of what is today Finland. The rest of the people spoke either Swedish, Russian or minority Baltic languages. Finnish was also widespread in northern Sweden and Norway. Their culture has virtually been extinguished in those countries. The fact that Finnish is now the national language is thanks to Russia's occupation - during which a revival was encouraged. Otherwise most of modern Finland would have become Sweden and the Finnish language would be extinct. The trouble in the region today is due to Swedish and NATO interference in Finland's affairs, not refugees trying to sneak across one more border, and it will end no better for the Finns than it has for the Ukrainians.
This film and rhe setting means a lot to me. Soldiers fromyhe areas where my mother lived at that time. My fathers homewas about 3 kilometers from River Taipale,towards the border.He had to leave his home in November 1939, at the age of 13.
Thanks for sharing your Families story mate - I appreciate it and it was interesting to read. Hopefully they all survived and got to go back home?
@@JTRetroReactions the Taipale region is all on russian soil now.
Few stories I remember hearing from my grandparents who where children at that time:
My grandmothers relative(?) told her about an incident where there was a sauna near a finnish camp. Our guys had locked it. During one snowstorm a sentry noticed that the lock was broken and alerted the others. They found a soviet patrol inside taking shelter from the storm and captured them.
That same relative told about the peace coming and meeting the soviets right after that. Russians were all happy (understandable) and came in hugging and kissing the finnish troops. And all that he could think was how he just wanted to punch them all in the face. Every last one.
My grandfather lost his childhood friend who found an unexploded ordance from a ditch. I remember him telling me how the men from the village where gathering his friends parts from a nearby tree...
He also witnessed a war crime where a finnish soldier executed an soviet POW just outside a POW camp and one time he escorted (as a child) soviet POWs to a worksite. This happened deep inside Finland so the soviets didn't have any good reason to try and escape.
He was also present at a famous (in Finland) event called Elisenvaaran Pommitus (Elisevaara Bombing) where the soviet bombed a train station with trains full of Finnish refugees. Over a hunded died. He was on his way to visit his dad who was working there and had to take cover in a ditch nearby.
And lastly on lighter note. When the lakes frozed over, people used to stick wooden poles on the ice to mark where it was safe to cross the lake. Where the ice was thickest. Soviet fighter pilots mistook the poles for soldiers, dived down and wasted their bullets. Grandfather and his friends were lying in a nearby bush laughing at the scene.
Hey Vertisic, thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing those fascinating personal stories - it makes the war come to life and highlights the reality and brutality of it - so I appreciate you sharing those with me. That last story about the Soviet Fighter made me laugh as well so thanks for that. Have a good evening.
The filming locations of the film Stalingrad (1993) in Finland were Kajaani, Kontiomäki and Kemijärvi.
Thanks mate - I only found out from doing this reaction that Stalingrad 93 was filmed in Finland - it makes sense though since they were trying to recreate the winter conditions the German Troops faced and Russia may have not been the best place to film that Movie even if they did film Downfall there. Hopefully you understood why I made the comparison between the feel of Stalingrad 93 and Talvisota - they both gave me similar emotional feelings and had a similar impact on me.
I was an extra at Kemijärvi when filming it. Fun experience even with the cold weather etc.
Hey IkeVMAX4 - fair play to you mate - I bet you're glad now you were a part of it! I was an extra in Braveheart and Saving Private Ryan. Braveheart was fun but SPR not so much. Thanks for sharing that with me. Have a good evening.
One veteran once told my grandfather that there were so many Russian bodies in that Taipaleenjoki that the Russians started using the dead as their shields
That's grim to hear mate but in fairness - serves them right for invading a sovereign Country. We had a saying here in Ireland that the British Soldiers came here to serve the Queen but they would have to wait for her in Hell where we would send them first - sounds exactly how you treated the Russians too
My other grandfather told that they had to retreat in times just because there was so many russians attacking that finns couldn't reload their weapons fast enough to shoot them down and were basically overrun sheer numbers of russians. And in front of mg position nighttime they had to crawl to collapse pile of dead russian soldiers to have clear shooting range. War is hell truly.
Thanks for sharing your Granddads' story mate and respect to him for his bravery and service. I don't know if you have been following the Ukraine War but the stories that came out from Bakhmut by the Ukrainians describe a very similar situation today
My grandfather took the military oath on January 18th, arrived at the frontline on January 20th, and was wounded in the left thigh by shrapnel on January 21st.
Hey Timonen, thanks for watching the video, the comment and sharing your Families story with me. That was a quick turnaround for your Granddad. Respect to his service and his bravery in fighting. I hope he survived his wound and the war?
@@JTRetroReactions Hi! Yes he did survive and when the Continuation War began, he served throughout the war as the combat messenger of his regiment's 14th company (anti-tank company), a small and nimble man. Though after WW2, he suffered from horrific nightmares, screaming while sleeping...
Sorry to hear that - war can leave long lasting damage - particularly survivors guilt. Messenger was a tough job as well. Anyways, thanks for letting me know that he survived.
my grangrandad service both wars winter and tali -ihantala wars but he loss hes both brothers in winter war after that tali-ihantala he not live more then 10 years
well wait i dont need tell reason how he die
You probably got already a lots of answers, but I like your style of commenting.
The religion was in important role for people in Pohjanmaa. It had been a profoundly white area in the civil war, meaning that they were religious and proud of it. Some other Finns might not have been this religious.
Also, if something in their equipment was missing in the film, they probably had shortage of it. Like ammo, tanks, air craft and men. They were also short of bayonets.
My best friends grandfather was in winter and continuation wars and he told that they had nothing in winter war, and how good it felt in continuation war even to see their own air planes. The Soviet troops were under trained and badly led: Stalin had purged the military and this was the result; the First world war tactics and learning the hard way what was going to work and what was not working so well.
They truly did attack in such formations. I have heard stories of men going mad from the sheer amount of men men that just kept running into their machine gun fire day after day.
The temperatures were freezing: in -30-40C.
My great grandfather, who was a farmer and very used to working in the cold temperatures lost some of his toes to the frost bites- what should tell about the coldness. My godfather was an extra in this movie and they barely had snow there according to him. So it was not that cold, almost ironically.
Thanks LadyHunter for watching the video, the comments and information and also for your kind comments on my reaction which I appreciate! Your explanation on the religion question may also explain why I got such different answers on that same question in my reaction to the Unknown Soldier.
Some other commentors have suggested that the lack of Bayonets had to do with the Finnish and that regions Soldiers preference for use of the Puukko. I can't say either way, that's just what others have told me.
Thanks for sharing the story of your best friends Grandfather. Believe it or not, similar stories are coming out of Ukraine today, particularly if you look at the Ukrainian accounts of the Bahkmut battle.
Thanks also for sharing the storing about your Great Grandfather and your Godfather. I had heard that ironically for the filming of this movie it was one of the warmest winters in years whilst the Winter War was one of the coldest. They still managed to make it look very cold though - from my perspective anyways.
Have a good evening.
Daws! You are so polite.
Yes, the bayonets might have been replaced by the puukko. The men had to bring their own daggers and probably did it gladly.
I wonder did someone explain to you about the background of the Finnish troops having so several different types of clothing (remember you pondering about it in the first part)? If so, I don't want to burden the comment field by explaining it again.
And yes. Russia is doing very similar things in Ukraine than what it has done to Finland during the ages. This is an offshoot from the topic and literally could write a whole paper about it. I don't need to imagine it. It is just pure madness.
Ps. I have understood, I am not a military person so pardon me if this goes wrong, that the Winter War is often seen as a birth place of motti tactic, but similar tactics were already used in 16th century wars between Sweden (Finland then was part of Sweden) and Russia/Novgorod. So they forgot more than just the first world war.
Thanks mate - my viewers make my channel so if I can't be polite and generous to them then I shouldn't bother with a channel at all to be honest.
Thanks for the additional information and yes many commenters have shared with me the difference between the regular army, the Civil Guards and then the running out of equipment and uniforms as well due to one of the Finnish Ministers at the time - I can't remember his name - not believing that war would happen and those not having bought enough stock.
Have a good evening.
In the frontlines in the South (Carelian Isthmus) the battles were mostly trenchwar, North of Ladoga it was mostly hit and run tactics and the motti tactics against road bound Soviet units.
UK and France promised to send tropps and stuff but it was not a really honest promise. They didnt receive permission to cross through Sweden to Finland since Swedish neutrality, and the main target for the UK and French troops were Norwegian ports up in northern Norway and then to the iron ore mines in Kiruna, Sweden. The promise to Finland was really given to keep the Finns fight for longer.. But Nazi-Germany started Operation Weserübung (the assualt and invasion of Denmark and Norway) so that put a end of the Anglo-French plans for Norway and North Sweden.
So during the Winter War Finland received limited support since Nazi-Germany banned transits through Germany and Germany occupied countries to Finland from Italy and some Balkan countries.
About 8000 Swedish volunteers and some thousand volunteers from other countries arrived to Finland in the later part of Winter War, the Swedes were sent to Finnish Lapland to the Finns could relieve a Finnish unit from there and send them to the Carelian Isthmus were the main soviet offensive tok place before the end of the Winter War.
Can highly recommend this documentary Winter War - Soviet Finnish 1939-1940 War - FULL 3d DOCUMENTARY from Kings and Generals about the Winter War: th-cam.com/video/1Uk5bY22RSE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o9PQ84WC_Q350EOc
Thanks again mate for all of that additional information and context. I will add that documentary to my watchlist as I love Military History so I appreciate the link.
@@JTRetroReactions I concur with recommending that documentary, some really nice animations and explanation of the individual battles from a top down view.
Thanks mate - I am actually watching it now - so far so good
@@JTRetroReactions It´s one of the best history channels on TH-cam
Also www.youtube.com/@WorldWarTwo is the GOAT channel to follow iff wanting to follow WWII almost day by day, with really good specials etc.
At the time of Winter War, the compositions of units were based on regions so e.g. all men in a company were from the same area / village / etc. This naturally had devastating results, especially on certain areas and this system was dropped after the Winter War.
Thanks Porsimo for watching the video and sharing that information. We had a similar result here during WW1 which is why it was dropped after that. It's a tough lesson to learn for any Country
The actual ordeal was the Battle of Äyräpää, which began on March 5. Infantry Regiment 23, commanded by lieutenant colonel Matti Laurila, had suffered heavy losses, so Light unit 8, which was in reserve, was directly subordinated to Laurila on the morning of March 4, 1940. In the morning, the commander of JR 23's 2nd battalion, Major Kustaa Sihvo, fell. Finally, by 10:00 p.m., the Äyräpää church hill was lost, which the 8th division leadership ordered to be recaptured an hour later, because with the loss, the entire northern shore of Vuoksi, which was held by the Finnish forces, had fallen within the scope of Soviet artillery fire.
The task of counterattack and seizure was given to the three teams of the Kevyt unit 8 squadron and the machine gun team led by Second Lieutenant Mauno Vehkaoja, a total of about 120 men. The department's bicycle company was ordered to reinforce the 2nd battalion of JR 23 on the Äyräpää church ridge, which served as a command post. The squadron marched south from Ventela to the castle of Vuosalmi, from where the Vuoksi was crossed at 3-4 in the morning. After that, it moved along the railway 300 meters to the Putkioja slope to attack positions. The II team of the squadron, led by Kornett Koivusalo, was positioned on the left ridge in the attack direction, and the I team, supported by machine guns, was positioned on the right hill. The III team was left to attack 50 meters behind in the second line.
At 5:50 the Finnish artillery fired the opening shots of the attack. Only 10-12 grenades were fired, although there had been talk of a stronger artillery concentration earlier. When the grenade fire stopped, Lieutenant Peltola commanded the squadron's attack. In front of the I team, which was on the hill, there was an opening as an attack ground, which had not been noticed in the darkness of the night. As soon as the attack started, the connections went down. The artillery and gunfire from the Russians was furious and at 8 o'clock word came to the command post that the entire squadron would be destroyed if the attack was continued. However, the withdrawal order given by the commander could not be carried forward.
The Finns managed to take over parts of the settlements of the first defense line and an estimated 19 Finnish soldiers got close to the goal, i.e. near the ruins of the church. However, the Finns did not have enough strength to hold the occupied territories and soon a counterattack by the Soviet forces forced the Finns to retreat. Only ten men returned to their starting station. The losses of Light Unit 8 had been 44 men (including 39 from Nurmo) and 30-50 wounded. Among the missing, or fallen, was the squadron commander, cavalry lieutenant Olavi Peltola. During the whole day, more than 80 people from southern Poznan fell.
Immediately after the counterattack on March 5, Light unit 8 was attached to JR 23's II battalion as a whole. Department chief Leo Lämsä became the commander of the battalion. Likewise, JR 23 was transferred from the 8th Division to the 2nd Division.
The battle of Äyräpää was only the first combat encounter with the enemy during the winter war for the squadron from Nurma and the machine gun team from Ylystaro. In the early stages of the Continuation War, in September 1941, a total of 82 winter war heroes were found in Äyräpää, buried in shallow pits. Only about half of them were identified, and the unidentified deceased were buried in the field cemetery established in connection with the Äyräpää heroes' cemetery during the continuation war. According to the estimate, five heroes of the Winter War from Nurmo would have been buried in their homestead's lot in the fall of 1941.
@@JTRetroReactions I forgot to add, that if you're interested in the history and events of the Winter War, Kings and Generals channel has made an excellent series of videos (5) of it. It's the most comprehensive and spot on view I've so far seen in YT to those 3 months the war lasted. Here's a link to the playlist if you want to check them out: th-cam.com/video/5P6TKHqr1Xk/w-d-xo.html&pp=iAQB
Thanks mate for all of that great information and detail - that was really interesting and helpful to read so I appreciate it! Have a good evening!
Thanks mate - much appreciated! - another person also shared these links with me as well so I actually started watching them last night. Feel free to make any other recommendations to me that you may have as well for reactions or just for further interest. Have a good evening.
39-40 was kinda record how cold it was. Over -40 somedays
Thanks Rollimon for watching the Video and for the comment. A few people mentioned to me in the live chat that this was the case but they were also saying that it kind of worked to Finland advantage as they were able to deal with the Cold but the Russians weren't and a lot of them died as a result.
We will never stop fight, this land is ours.
Neither should you my friend
So here to answer questions again:
- I touched on why Finland received limited aid in the last video but for more details here, Germany was "allied" to the USSR through the molotov-ribbentrop pact as you say. Sweden was just as underprepared for war as Finland was and they were very concerned about a German invasion if they got involved or further weakened themselves. Although the Swedish government generally resisted getting involved, the amount of equipment they did send to Finland was honestly massive. I've read they may have sent something in the range of 30% of their own military equipment as aid to Finland.
For the western allies, the problem was Germany. They were already at war, even though they were in the "phony" phase. There was no easy way to get to Finland and even if there was, did they want to go to war with the USSR as well when already at war with Germany? Just for Finland?
The US did sell some equipment but they were still in their "the European war has nothing to do with us" phase as well and didn't want to get involved in any way.
- The digging towards trenches thing wasn't an underground (or even ground) operation. Remember that the snow was very deep at this point, easily a meter deep or more. All they had to dig through was the snow and try not to show any movement above the surface as they dig. The ground would be frozen and incredibly hard to dig through in this kind of cold.
So it's just an infiltration tactic. Sneak into the enemy trenches undetected. Both sides did this during the winters both in the winter war and continuation war.
- I don't know why they don't use bayonets. I haven't heard many stories of them being used in combat in the actual fighting but that doesn't mean they weren't. still the only reference to bayonet fighting I've heard about is the "sausage war" where the Soviets had broken through the Finnish lines but the soldiers stopped to eat when they encountered the Finnish field kitchens while ignoring their officers. This gave the Finns time to regroup a bunch of cooks, logistics and reserve troops who counterattacked with bayonets and there was a close quarters battle lasting all night before the Soviets were wiped out.
- Jamming logs into the tank threads was an authentic tactic. I've also read about one ski-trooper being decorated for prying the threads off a Russian tank with a crowbar.
AT guns were extremely limited. After a few weeks of fighting on the front, usually all of them had been knocked out. The only weapons the Finns had to deal with tanks after that were Molotov cocktails and satchel charges, both of which forced the infantry to get extremely close. The casualty rates of AT troops were stunningly high, but it worked in the earlier stages of the war as the cooperation between Soviet tanks and infantry was practically non-existent. Often the tanks managed to break through the lines as the Finns had no weapons to stop them, but doing so they left the infantry behind in the open to get decimated and then the tanks were behind the Finnish trenches with no support.
As for where he threw that molotov in the movie. Air intake I believe. Sucked the burning mixture it into the engine and set the tank on fire.
- I can't answer what the mean temperature would be as it varies quite a lot day to day, but even in the south of Finland there are certainly days every winter when the temperature is below -20c and considering Finland is 1300km north to south, it gets a lot colder than that as you move northwards.
And that's during a regular winter, the 1939-1940 winter was indeed one of the coldest in recorded history. The temperature regularly touched -30 and sometimes -40 degrees celsius during some days. Guns froze, people froze and vehicle engines froze. That was one of the issues the Soviets had further north, they couldn't turn off the engines of their tanks and trucks because as soon as they did, they'd freeze and never start again. As you mentioned in the previous part, the Finns weren't exactly a mechanized force but relied on horses, walking, bikes and skiing. None of which require fuel or freeze when not running. The Soviets had issues both with the logistics (bringing all the fuel forward to keep everything running 24/7) and they could be heard wherever they were. Meanwhile the already silently approaching Finns were even more difficult to hear because the Soviets had these engines running right next to them.
Once they were cut off from supplies and ran out of fuel, their vehicles became useless and eventually the soldiers just froze to death where they were. The Finns would target any fires or field kitchens with mortars and sniper fire as soon as they were spotted.
The cold also caused some extreme scenes as when it gets THAT cold, as soon as the blood circulation stops, a body will freeze in the exact position it was in when hit. There are some rather horrific images of Soviet soldiers dead, still standing up in their last position. Some from getting shot, but other from Finnish troops literally sneaking up on them and cutting their throats with a knife. It was some effective psychological warfare against the next Soviet troops that passed by the location.
In these mass infantry assaults, the bodies would eventually help the Soviets too. After wave upon wave had been mowed down by machineguns, the cold would freeze the bodies solid to the point where they'd stop bullets, which allowed following Soviet waves to get closer to the Finnish lines by taking cover behind their own dead.
- You're correct the Soviets were incredibly stupid. Or rather, they were led by political officers rather than competent ones and they followed a very rigid command structure where initiative in the field wasn't just discouraged, but could get you shot. Follow the book and wait for orders from the top.
This led to some of the worst disasters for the Soviets in the war, for example along the Raate road where just a couple hundred Finns managed to lock down an entire Soviet division by attacking it. Soviet doctrine said to halt, dig in and shoot back when coming under attack, so that's what they did while outnumbering the Finns 100:1. That gave the Finns time to move reinforcements to the area and eventually surround and cut down the entire division, as well as the division that was sent in to aid the first.
Many of the competent officers who were behind the rather advanced combined arms doctrine the Soviets had developed were killed in Stalin's purges, so while they had a really solid system, nobody was capable of applying it. At least not in the first few months of the war. They did learn and improve eventually.
This kind of static "WW1" warfare was only fought on the Karelian isthmus in the far south because it's the only part of the border with decent infrastructure and road networks. If the Soviets got through there, they could march on Viipuri (Finland's 2nd city) and then Helsinki. Anywhere further north the Finns fought a much more mobile form of war, but in the south no ground could be given.
The Soviets wanted a flashy "blitzkrieg" style war, which is why they split their forces along the entire 1300km border which allowed the Finns to trade ground for time and bleed the Soviets in regions that were less important as well as focus the troops where needed by moving them around.
If the Soviets had just gone for focusing everything they had on the southern section from the start, it's likely the war would have been over much sooner. That is what they eventually did after reorganizing the army. They sent massive reinforcements and focused everything on the Karelian isthmus, essentially turning the Finnish lines into dust before overwhelming what remained.
If I recall correctly, the Soviets invaded with some 300,000 men in November 1939 and despite their casualties, by the time the war ended they had increased to 750,000.
- You may be right about the casualties kept cold having higher survival rates, however there's a difference between "cold" and cold. I don't doubt that it's accurate in situations as the one you describe from Vietnam, but it's a different story when we're talking winter war levels of cold. At these temperatures even light wounds very quickly lead to frostbite and amputations or outright kill you as your weakened body lacking blood is unable to keep your body temperature up. There were very few prisoners taken on either side in this war, one of the main reasons being that there were very few wounded to capture. One of the causes of that was the ferocity of the fighting, but another was what I've been insinuating. Anybody who got wounded very quickly turned into dead.
Thanks Baltic Water as always for all of that alpha information and of course for watching the video. Some people mentioned the bayonets were not used in this part of the front as that particular Finnish Tribe prefer the use of the Puukko Knife if I am spelling that correctly.
Thanks also for clarifying what the digging of the trenches related too as no one else really knew so that was really helpful.
I take your point on not going to war with Finland but I would rebut with they went to war for Poland and the USSR had already invaded there as well.
Some other commentors mentioned that in this particular winter the temperature fell as low as -40 which worked to the Finnish advantage as they had winter gear and were prepared for the cold and seemingly lots of Russians weren't and froze as a result which you mentioned yourself.
You are right as well on the purges being an issue and if my understanding is correct, it was the performance of the Soviets in this war that convinced old Adolf that he could take on the Soviets with ease.
I take your point on extreme cold which is fair. Basically when I say cold I mean that the practice now is to drop field casualty body temps down to about half of normal body temp. That really slows down the blood flow and decreases bleeding which helps survival rates. The old practice was to keep the body warm which had the adverse effect of increasing blood flow and therefore death rates. So yes, you are right, that does not apply in extreme cold.
Thanks again mate and have a good night
@@JTRetroReactions The puukko is a traditional knife that's been used as a tool for many things throughout history, including war. However I'm not sure I buy that as the reason why bayonets wouldn't be used in the fighting. The bayonet does after all have a significant advantage in range. There may have been other reasons I'm not aware of, or their use just isn't depicted very much in this particular movie. Perhaps just for some simple reason like not waving around steel blades among the actors in these scenes.
It is true the western allies went to war with Germany for the invasion of Poland, but that's also because they had a military alliance and offered an official guarantee before hostilities broke out. Finland had no allies and got no promises, nobody had any obligations to come to her aid.
That being said, the USSR was expelled from the league of nations for this attack, so international sentiment was clearly on Finland's side, but nobody wanted to get directly involved in the conflict.
Apart from encouraging Hitler to invade the USSR, the winter war was also a big wakeup call for the Soviets. Immediately after the war was over, some serious reforms were started to get the red army into fighting shape. Obviously they were nowhere near completed by the time the Germans came through the front door, but the state of the red army as a fighting force had certainly improved a little already.
Both Sweden and Finland were allied to Germany from the start. Neither Molotov nor Ribbentrop expected their "treaty" to last.
@@kubhlaikhan2015 False.
@baltic water is correct on every issue. @kublaikhan2015 is a pro Russia tankie, wrong on both of his statements. Regarding the bayonet. As far as i have read and understood, bayonets have never been a thing in the Finnish armed forces apart from parades. Primary reason for this is that fixing a bayonet on your rifle, screws with your barrel harmonics when firing. Puukko has been brought up as well. Every Finn used to carry one back in the day due to the rural nature of the nation. Lack of a knife meant lack of fire, witch is rather undesirable below +10 Celcius. Not to mention that the area where the company in this movie is from, is renowned for their knives. Kauhavan veri ei vapise, eikä teräs ruostu. "Blood of Kauhava fears none, and their steel don't rust" or some such. Basically, they grew up within a culture of bladed weapons for crafting and self defense.
Awesome reaction on this i like it how you try to analyze the movie and still try to enjoy it. Very well done. Im swedish born early 80's and actually saw this as 9 years old constantly lol. I always liked this movie and the other epic finnish war movies like "Unknown soldier 1985", "Ambush", and "Beyond the frontlines" everyone are great. The reason i got to watch warmovies early was We had a fire at our house and had to stay at my uncles flat when he was away as a UN soldier in Lebanon war until our house was renovated. And there he had tonnes and tonnes of war movies and Clint Eastwwod and Bud Spencer etc. Its thanks to my uncle i got to know the epic movies early in life.
Hey Peo, thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing your story with me mate - I enjoyed reading it. Thanks also for your very kind comments on my reaction. Similar to your Uncle - that's where I did most of my UNIFIL service - in South Lebanon - I was there in the Mid 90s - if was rough then and even rougher in the 80s I believe so respect to your Uncle. You will be glad to know that Ambush will be out in a few weeks and as I'm a retro Channel I also have all of the Dirty Harry's lined up to watch as well if you like that Clint Eastwood series. Have a good evening.
Some volunteers were from Sweden and other countries. Christopher Lee, actor from The Lord of the Rings, participated in the Winter War
Thanks mate. Yes indeed he was and there was a good discussion around that in the live premiere. Have a lovely Christmas
The Nurmooites' attack on the church is famous for its failure. The people of Nurmoola were promised a longer artillery barrage. But the artillery had no grenades.
Thanks mate - I have actually been reading up on that attack last night.
Grenades are hand thrown weapons used by troops. Artillery use shells , it's amazing how little viewers and posters know.
@@trevorplows7494Very ignorant comment. For example panzergranate in German, a grenade for tanks. Or tykistökranaatti in Finnish, a grenade for artillery.
He basicly told Martti to go say "hello" to the commander of the next company in line, a stupid thing to do for no reason, ust to show who is boss
Hey mate - I hear you - I was pissed on Martti's behalf at that stage - he was always getting the short end of the stick as we say in english - in other words the raw deal.
This is a story of Kauhava company of the 21st regiment, in winter war outfits were formed by towns and willages. I am from Kuortane and our grandfathers vere just there in the same battles at Taipale as the men in the movie. We have a rememberance day every 16.12 as Taipale day when 21 was killed and 19 wounded in a single counter attack Kuortane company made. It was a heavy blow for a village of 7000 people. I grew up with the men who went through these battles and continuation war. Lots of veterans with artificial lims, glass eyes etc and it was just a normal thing for a child.
Thanks petrisyria for watching the video, your comment and for sharing your Granddad's and your villages story. Seeing things like that when you are young makes the war real. I used to talk to all my elderly neighbours when I was young about the Irish War of Independence and I am so glad I did because they were all dead by the time I was a teenager. I was a strange child that way - I always had a terrific interest in military history and the military even though my family doesn't really have a military tradition in modern times. But as I mentioned I am glad I did it as I was able to carry their stories forward after they had gone.
@@JTRetroReactions Same interest here since young boy, still going strong and btw the lmg is lahti l-26.
Brilliant - glad to hear I wasn't the only one. Thanks for the info on the MG - I appreciate it! Have a good evening!
21:39 To engine air intake. Early WW2 soviet tank were vulnerable for Molotov cocktail. Finns learned quite soon that you could set engine on fire via unprotected air intake
Thanks Finnthunder for watching the video, the comment and the information you shared. To be honest I should have thought of the Air Intake but it sometimes happens in reactions, you have to think on the spot and often say the first idea that comes into your head.
Water flooding in bunker (Niittykasematti) really hapened. It was near small stream. Water raised in the bunker after shelling
Thanks drkirves for watching the Video and for sharing that information. I didn't know that it had happened in real life - so interesting. Did the events depicted in the movie also happen - i.e. the Finns pulling back due to the flooding and then having to retake the Bunker from the Soviets?
It is written that during one night platoon of Soviets occupied it and Finns sentry pulled back to main defence line. This bunker was just front of the main line. Finns made several counterattacks and cleared bunker area, but some Soviets stayed in. Finally bunker got direct hit from Soviet artillery and turned to be gravel pit. So the movie is pretty accurate here although in real it was occupied four days before it got destroyed.
Thanks mate for the reply and for sharing that additional information. It was interesting to read. Have a good evening
You asked about religion in Finland. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland is a national church of Finland. It is part of the Lutheran branch of Christianity. The church has a legal position as a national church in the country, along with the Orthodox Church of Finland. Finnish children receive confessional religious education in public schools. At the primary level children receive one hour per week of religious education. At the secondary level teaching is periodic. Each student has to take one compulsory course and can take additional voluntary courses. In the movie the men are from Ostrobothnia wich is a region in western Finland. That part is the “bible belt” area and it’s very religious area. About 66% of Finns are members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland. That’s why in the movie the Christmas sermon was so important to the men.
Thanks for watching and for all of that information on the Christian culture of Finland - much appreciated!
It was one of the coldest winters of the 20th century, on the isthmus perhaps up to -20--25 C, in the north up to -30 even -35 C , so negative in F as well
Yes indeed and many people have pointed that out to me. But it worked to the Finns advantage I believe due to the Finns being able to handle the cold and the Russians not so they suffered a lot of deaths as a result.
could go down as -40 celcius
Yes indeed Juhani - a few people have mentioned this as well.
The charakters and description of events are based on the novel, but the book is based on interviews with real people.Partly to the authors owwn relatives. In the end, the seriously wounded medic survived.
Thanks Erkkihamalanen for watching the video, the comment and sharing that information. So from what you are saying I understand the Movie is similar to the Unknown Soldier in that sense, whereby it's a mixture of fact and fiction or faction was we say in English. That's probably why the movie is so powerful as well as it had those elements of truth in it. I'm glad to hear that the Medic survived. Have a good evening!
During the winter war it was around -30 to -40 degrees Celsius
Thanks Cronin for watching the video - a few people have mentioned that to me as well. But seemingly it worked to the Finnish advantage as the Finns were more adapted to the cold and able to handle it whilst many of the Soviets died in it.
That Mandolin-player , Pentti was not that one who fell at the end. He was exact that another one who laid with Martti during the last bombs . So he survived too. Yes it´s hard to recognize so filthy faces.
Thanks reappear for watching the video and the comment. My mistake then - to be honest it's hard to keep a track of everything when you have to look up at the camera to comment and then you miss stuff happening on screen so yeah I'm sure I probably did make that mistake. Thanks for pointing that out as I liked that character so I am glad he survived - fictionally anyways. Have a good evening.
It was artillery, and he got blown to pieces..Martti just lied to his mother to make it easiere for her
Yes mate - I figured that out after a minute - I just started doubting myself when he said he was shot and I was worried that I had some of the characters mixed up but then when the mother mentioned about the body parts rolling around in the coffin I figured it out.
Amazing video:) The lowest temperature in finland during winter war was as low as -43 degrees. Freezing🥶🥶
Thanks for watching mate and for the kind comments. I appreciate it! I definitely couldn't cope with those temperatures!
By the way, it was a funny coincidence, this movie was on TV last night, the Finnish public broadcaster TV2. It was a slightly longer version than your DVD version. There is also an extensive five-part television series. You commented that the people are colder than in The Unknown Soldier. Perhaps the new version of Unknown was somewhat romanticized. On the other hand, the people in the film Winter War tell about the people of Southern Ostrobothnia; we are considered a rather tough and warlike tribe in Finland.
Thanks mate - indeed you are right - some of the People in the live chat during the premiere of this video mentioned that it was going to be on Finnish TV - not planned I can assure you - I was just trying to get the reaction out before December 06. Yes indeed, I was also mistaken on the emotion thing which again like your good self, many people pointed out to me in the live chat. They mentioned that the tribes in both Films are different with one being more emotional then the other so that accounted for the difference. All I can say is that I wasn't aware of that difference before that but it makes sense after it was explained to me. Cheers.
Southern Ostrobothnia was an example for Texans! We have very strong knowledge what is right or wrong. It is not only for us, but for whole Finland.
We live with full hearts, and speak directly. No crooking, no word bending, perkeles! Who accepts us and our specialities, gets life-long and very loyal friends.
The frost was - 40 C. In one manor, all the apple trees died that winter.
Thanks Jaana for watching the video and the comment. That's the kind of cold that I could not deal with - I'm not built for that. I did read I think that when shooting Talvisota, they unfortunately got one of the warmest winters so what we see in the film didn't accurately reflect what the soldiers had to deal with.
Summer in 1940 town called suomussalmi. There was so many flies on the town that if u walk on street u just crush them with boots. Why there was so many flies. In Raattentie was full of dead soldiers. About 17000 deaths.
Thanks Rollimon for watching the video and the comment. Thanks for that sharing that information as well. Were they Finnish Soldiers or Russian Soldiers bodies or a mix of both?
Here you go: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road
And here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suomussalmi
Thanks mate - I will read up on both of those links tonight - I appreciate you sharing them - have a good evening!
So US was neutral at the time, and UK and France didn't want to start a war with the Soviets by helping Finns (especially since they were at war with Germany). Sweden did give us vital supplies like ammo, guns, planes and around 10 000 volunteers, but officially stayed out of the war.
Thanks Executive Sonda for watching the video, the comment and that additional background information and the lack of outside help - much appreciated. Have a good evening
@@JTRetroReactions It should be noted that British had plans to send some troops to Finland but the main plan was to use this as an excuse to send troops to Norway and Sweden in order to prevent iron supplies to Germany. Norway refused due to neutrality and also because they suspected British intentions. These plans also lead to battles for Norway.
Ah perfidious Albion again - there is a reason they have that name attached to them. I have mentioned in other comments on here how both the UK and US threatened Ireland with invasion during WW2 if we did not hand over our Sea Ports to them - we told them fire ahead and invade us - you'll see how you get on. Luckily they didn't follow through on their threats.
We gave the name Molotov cocktail to those kerosine bottles..to go with Molotovs breadbaskets (Molotov claimed Russian bombers were not dropping bombs but food)
Hey Kommoantinaho thanks for watching the video and the comment. I never knew that so that was interesting to learn - thanks for sharing that information - I appreciate it. Have a good evening!
The ingredients needed for a Molotov cocktail are waste alcohol, kerosene, booze and tar. About 550,000 bottles of those fuel bottles were made by the state liquor factory.
We have our own version over here which in Belfast and Derry they became quite proficient at making during the troubles in Northern Ireland. Thanks for sharing the ingredients though to the original - I presume the Tar was to make sure it stuck to burning vehicles and bodies?
There is a debate going on if finns or (I am horribly wrong with this one I think, please correct me) argentinians came up with the molotov cocktails first. Well, not with the name, but the usage! Petrol+stuff, light it, throw, kaboom!
Maybe! I know spain civil war use molotov cocktails.@@Farsoful
34:30 They usually had wheat semolina, barley, millet and oat porridge/gruel for lunch. For dinner it was mostly potato or pea soups mixed with anything they could get.
Thanks Corvx for the comment and for watching the video. Not a great variety of diet but certainly a healthy and robust one that would keep you full! I just felt so bad for them reduced to eating coffee beans which can't be good on an empty stomach.
About religion, yes, the older folks were more religious, but mostly in a solemn way, not real fervour
Thanks mate for that context - much appreciated!
Both my grandpas served in Winter War and Continuation War. Both survived but were wounded. I found a digitized battle journal of a company in which one of them served in Winter War. A tough read that one. Goes together with this movie though. They were from Pohjanmaa also like these men in the movie. Also our little town made a book about veterans of both wars. The book was full of stories and actual letters to home from soldiers. Like someone wrote before, Ostrobothnia (Pohjanmaa) was deeply religious part of Finland so those parts about singing hymns and taking part on communion were important to soldiers. You can read it on the letters. Many close their letters with blessings to home and trusting in Gods will.
Thanks TheSerubbaabel for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information about the importance of religion to the people of this region and also for sharing your Grandparents story - I appreciate that and respect to your Grandparents for their service and their bravery. Have a good evening!
I didn't get to know my grandfathers since they died in war.
My grandfathers regiment was fighting next to this regiment in place called Kirvesmäki which story was told in this book/movie. He lost two of his brothers during the winter war. In the end of the war they had only two men in the outpost of lines and russians were astonished that there were only two of them and they had hundreds of men in the sector near by. Those two guys were offered lot of tobacco and lot of hand shaking after war was over. Russian didn't know that there were few more 100m behind in the trenches.
Thanks Tsuokona for watching the video, for your comment and for sharing your Granddad's and his brothers stories which I read with interest. It's amazing to think that there was only two left at the end - just shows what hard fighting went on then. Respect to your Granddad and his brothers for their bravery and service.
During the winter war, Finland owned about 40 modern fighters. They were all bound to repel the bombing of industrial centers. Finland, as a poor country, could not afford proper anti-aircraft defense. The few anti-aircraft guns were not enough for the front. Finland had about 140 - 160 pcs. up-to-date anti-tank guns. But when the length of the front was 1300 km
Thanks mursuheikkinen for watching the video, for the comment and the information you shared. I appreciate it! Not a lot of aircraft but still better then nothing and yes that is some length of frontline to deal with
Thanks for movie review and do not feed those trolls - just ignore and report. When you reply and they get banned your reply stays in comments.
Thanks mate for watching the video and the good advice. I appreciate it. Have a great Christmas
Battle of Church hill is based on real events. Almost all young men of Nurmo muncipality were killed that day.
Thanks teemujokelainen for watching the video and the comment. That's terrible that an entire region was almost wiped out. Have a good evening.
@@JTRetroReactions In the last days of war, Finns lost 500 men every day. Nation of 3,8 million cant take that very long, so government couldn't wait help by British.
Indeed - they are significant losses for a small nation. As I mentioned in my commentary even the fact that you were able to hold off a force that had such a significant and major manpower and equipment advantage is amazing in of itself
Finally got a peacegul chance to watch this reaction.
Good job!
As a Finn I like your attitude and general knowledge about the "neighbour".
I'm too tired to go deeper now, but thank you.
Thanks mate for watching the video and for your kind comments. Sorry for the delay in replying to you but just recovering from a bad dose of covid
Seems that others didn't yet comment this. Film is based on famous author Antti Tuuri who has written many books about this family from town/muncipality called Kauhava Ostrabothnia west cost of finland. Your question about accuracy, unfortunately as fan of Antti Tuurri, who is engineer btw, I have to say that book very accurately, high in details, documented what those Hakala brothers told him, but movie director almost ruined it by his artistic freedom. For example grand finale was way more dramatic in book than in movie like quite often happens iwith movies.
Few of his other numerious books has ended up to movies like:
Pohjanmaa, Talvisota, Ameriikan Raitti, Rukajärven tie, Ikitie and so on. Wikipedis is your friend with this.. BTW Rukajärven tie is another war movie you should review. It's worth watching.
About temperatures, winter 1940 was one of the coldest reachinnng -40C at some lowest days. Eastern Finland at those times anything between -10 tro -30 were cconsidered normal Jan, Feb temps.
Thanks mate for watching the video, the comment and for sharing the additional details on the differences between the books and the movies. You'll be glad to hear that Rukajarven Tie is on my reaction to do list as it was a runner up in a recent war movie poll. It should be out soon. I just have to get through a couple of other poll winners first (Das Boot and when Evil Lurks) I will try to find an English translation of the books after I finish reading the Unknown Soldier novel which I'm currently going through. Have a good evening.
Antti Rokka aka Viljam Pylkäs also fought in the Winter War,for example in Taipale
Thanks Peter for that information. I know at the very start of the film they showed a little bit of his action in the Winter War
Finns favored knife over bayonet for hand to hand fight.
Hey Savolax - thanks for watching the video and for the comment. A few people have told me about this since doing the reaction but I had never heard of the Puukko before doing this so it was good to learn about that and it explains the lack of usage of bayonets in the majority of the movie.
The reason many times for not fixing bayonets was that even I had some sort of a puukko knife with me as I was serving.
Puukko over bayonet any time! :)
As an ostrobothnian puukko over bayonet!!!
I had a knife during service that I got from my uncle when I turned 18. Kind of a tradition here. He made the puukko knife himself too.
Hey Banaaniapina - I never even heard of that knife before doing this reaction. It sounds like you have a similar tradition to the Gurkhas and their use of knifes. Is that the case?
Thanks Farsoful - as mentioned below I hadn't even heard of that knife before doing this reaction - so I've learned a lot over these past couple of days.
Thanks Paltse for watching the video and for the comment. I mentioned to the other guys below that I had not heard of the Puukko before doing this reaction, so I'm guessing you are like the Gurkhas and their tradition with knifes - good to learn. Have a good evening.
The weather during winter war was one of the lowest on record. Going as low as -40 which is very rare atleast nowadays
Thanks mate for watching the video, the comment and for sharing that information about the weather. I also believe that in 1989 when this movie was made it was one of the warmest winters.
43:20 There was a joke there, the shouting guy tried to speak russian but was so bad that the other guy made a sarcastic remark about it.
Thanks Channel for watching the Video, the comment and the additional information. I think the Subtitles let me down there as I didn't pick up on that - thanks for letting me know - I appreciate it! Have a good evening.
Importance of religion in Finland is very much a generational and also geographical thing.
Thanks Vompo for watching the video, the comment and the information you shared. It was very common in Europe at that time for religion to be used as a motivating factor so it would be more unusual if it had not been. Also some other commenters shared that the region these Troops came from is where the Awakening took place so is quite religious - at that time anyways
I know I'm a bit late, but a word about the religion. Finns back then were a lot more religious or at least religion played a bigger part in society as a whole. Nowadays, like in many other places, the meaning of religion in peoples lives is dwindling and the majority of Finns in reality are somewhat agnostic/atheistic although they on paper are of lutheran religion and only take part in the religious traditions through habit or because they like the tradition but don't actually hold any meaning for the message of the religion. This I think is what some of the commenters are confusing and are projecting modern Finland to how things were in the war time Finland. Of course back then a lot of people probably pretended to be devout christians, but religion also had a way bigger presence in society than now.
Thanks that makes perfect sense to me. Much appreciated
Sweden sent 10 000 volunteers, almost all their stock of anti-tank guns (that we sorely lacked) and squadron of old fighters (they could not spare more, since they had not much).
At least it was some help to you guys! I do know one bit of Trivia that Christopher Lee, the famous Actor was a volunteer for the Winter War.
2022 people who do not belong to any religious denomination are 32% of the population in Finland. The coldest day of the Winter War, temperature -37.6 °C.
Thanks again for the information mate - much appreciated!
31:10 Temperatures in Finland dropped below minus 40 degrees Celsius during the war. The Red Army at the time had a policy of not training its troops in temperatures lower than minus 15 Celsius.
Thanks mate for watching the video and for sharing that information about the lack of Soviet Training in extreme cold. I appreciate it! Have a great Christmas
Really enjoyed this. Usually watch winter war or any unknown soldier version during independence day. Saw your video earlier but saved it for this day. Well mostly night. Love how in the book which this is based on Martti offhand says that seinäjoki (my place of birth) is just little township with horseshit on the streets. Despite being middle of X in terms of railway connections.
Thanks mate for watching the video and for your kind comments. I appreciate it! Thanks for sharing that comment from the book about your home place. I hope it didn't offend you too much
In those days Seinäjoki indeed was just a little hamlet - only existing because of the railways crossing there. Lapua was then the "centre" of the Finnish-speaking Ostrobothnia.
1:06:30 I think Finnish Army had not much bayonets in use, as 99,9% of men had their own puukko-knife.
Yes indeed - some others have shared that information with me as well. I had never heard of the Puukko before this but it makes sense why they didn't use Bayonets if they were more comfortable with the Knife. But not having that knowledge when doing the reaction meant I was questioning how they would go into hand to hand combat without bayonets - afterwards though it made sense.
@@JTRetroReactions Original Russo/Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifles had "rat-tail" style bayonets and they were even accurated to shoot with the bayonets attached. Also Finnish Mosin-Nagant rifles en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant#Finland indeed had bayonets but they were knife like and attached only when needed because Finns considered their rifles to be more like precision instrument. It might be that the lack of bayonets in this movie is the question of production cost because those original bayonets are sought after collector items, which might be as expensive or more than the rifles. What comes to the religiosity, those men in the movie came from the rural area of Southern Ostrobothnia where the religious movement called "Awakening" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakening_(Finnish_religious_movement) was very strong so it's probably accurate to depict them as more religious than the average Finns even that time. Coincidentally that same area was also the home of notorious "puukkojunkkari" knife-fighters" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puukkojunkkari so it's quite plausible to that they have knowledge how to use their knives as weapons. There is a Finnish movie called "Once Upon a Time in the North" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Upon_a_Time_in_the_North_(film) about those puukkojunkkaris resembling a bit like a Western which might be interesting if like that kind of genre.
Hey TK, thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing all of that information with me - much appreciated! I will read through those links later tonight. I do indeed enjoy westerns so thanks as well for the Movie recommendation - I will see if I can find a version with English Subtitles so I can react to it. Have a good evening
Allies promised all the help; What we got was some Ambulance units from the US. France and UK promised to send carriers of troops but by the war was ended on peace treaty it was too late(not sure if any actual military troops was coming at all because they were afraid the reaction of the ruskies), in other words they never were eager to send actual help. It's like pretty much like Ukraine's situation nowadays but even less. Sweden and Estonia sent volunteers which is/was mostly appreciated but no actual help from the Allies came at all.
PS. No wonder Finland allied the Germans later because at least they actually got help lol
PPS. You should pause the movie when talking to camera to avoid scenes like "Did Paavo got hit?" :D just saying. Also missed the introduction to Molotov cocktails
I do that but only for patrons. To be honest I have to give additional content to people who pay.
Thanks mate. Yes indeed many commenters like your good self have been kind enough to share that information with me. I appreciate it!
Absolutely spot on review mate.
Thanks Mikkoveljalainen for watching the video and your very kind comments mate - I really appreciate it and it makes the effort put into making these videos worthwhile - have a good evening and thanks again!
@@JTRetroReactions Your review of the Unknown Soldier was also really good. As a Finn I do have to say that I really do like your commentary.
Thanks again mate - I really appreciate that - thanks for watching those videos as well. Rukajarven Tie will be out in a few weeks as well. I just have to get through a couple of Poll Winners first (Das Boot and When Evil Lurks) and then Ambush is after that. Have a good evening.
For the religion part of the movie finnish had strong believe in god finns motto was home religion and fatherland and thats ehat they were defending earlier when russia co trolled finland they tried to russificate whole finland and that left deep scars in finnish ppl
Anglo-French were ready to send 20,000 troops but there was political problems that included also Sweden didn't allow them to pass thru Sweden. . Western Europe was caught off guard badly and Finland's location made it very difficult transport help, not to mention troops and equipment safely. By the time Western did had capabilities and enough political will with a plans, situation was over.
Thanks again for sharing that information mate. I know some other commenters have said on here that the reason Sweden didn't allow them to pass through was that they didn't trust them and it seems from recently released papers on the British side that they never intended to go to Finland but instead were going to capture the Swedish Iron Ore mines which Germany were using. That's what other commenters have told me anyways.
My father told me that he was playing a Soviet soldier in some battle scene
But it was not a special role and his name was not shown in the Credits
Hey mate. Thanks for watching the video, the comment and for sharing your Dad's story. It's cool that he was an extra in this movie which seems to be very important in Finland. Respect to your dad!
You should totally check out the 2007 movie "Tali-Ihantala 1944." It tells the story of a battle by the same name which was fought in the defensive phase of the Continuation war. The largest war in Nordic history.
the film shows one of the most powerful serial firearms, the Finnish submachine gun. Designed by Lahti Saloranta. 750,909 rounds per minute. 9 mm parabellum.
Thanks mate - I have read up on Mr. Lathi since doing the reaction - he was a great weapons designer of his time.
Back in the day about religion, "participation is mandatory". Until 1923 it was illegal to separate from the church, no matter what you thought. And naturally social pressure was there way longer after that. If 95% of people around you have a thought (or pretend to have one), its really hard to go against that. And of course its geographical and political, progressives were against religion and reactionaries for it, just like today. Today only 65 % of Finns are in church, and that naturally causes panic with the clergy. Especially as in bigger cities its less than 50 %. Kind of takes the social pressure away.
Thanks Toniheikkila for watching the video , the comment and the information you shared. Sounds similar to what has happened in Ireland over the years.
my grand father also got hit by grenade shrapnels and thank fully lived until 90's with the shrapnels still in his body
Great to hear that he survived mate - did the Shrapnel cause him much trouble in his life?
@@JTRetroReactions some pain i think but was ok otherwise.
Glad to hear mate - shrapnel still in the body can be tricky - I know a couple of people with the same issue. Thanks for letting me know.
Its based on same named booked, and book is based on writers family. Its true battless in Karelian isthmus, battle of Summa and Taipale in Mannerheim line
Thanks mate - I don't have this book but I do have the english translation of the Novel the Unknown Soldier was based upon. I'm enjoying that Novel so far and once I finish that I will try and find a copy of this novel in English.
I know some of these older actors had already made name for themselves in serious historical stuff before, but later some of them became known for long running soap operas, so it was quite yarring when I saw this movie for first time after the fact
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Despite the fact that I am an atheist, it sort of annoys me how other Finns got defensive about Christianity in these movie, because they've forgotten how much society has changed within last hundred years.
And protagonists of this movie even come from region that's still semi-jokingly called as "Finland's bible belt"!
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Crispbread is dry unleavened bread, but it's not quite hard tack because you can eat it without smashing it with hammer first.
Thanks again mate for sharing that information. To be honest that is what I found hard to understand as well. All of Europe was pretty much Christian back then, outwardly or inwardly doesn't really matter - it was just the societal norm of the day and I would find it much harder to believe that religion played no role at all back then, then that it did as it was pretty much just the standard for the times.
I had never hard of Crisp Bread before this reaction - does it have the same lasting power as Hard Tack?, i.e. that it does not go stale?
@@JTRetroReactions
Crisp bread can last for months, but it's probably not quite as resistant to things like storage getting moist as hardtack, given it's wafer thin compared to hardtack I've seen.
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Commentary continues because I was cut off before I could finish the video lol
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I don't remember if I or anyone actually commented previously, well there was commentary on general lack of equipment, but basically good part of finnish divisions were lucky to have AA machine guns as part of divisional AAA, and those that had AA guns had guns that were at most up to 40mm caliber. Anything bigger was reserved for strategic air defence units. So yeah. fronline troops had tiny AA weapons stretched really thin.
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Basically all modern tanks are protected against "molotov against radiator grill", but at this point it was one of the weak points against fire attacks...
...Also these tanks were riveted instead of cast or welded so (pseudo-)napalm would just go through armor plates
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At 01:23:49 01:24:03 you see him manually cycling what looks like soviet made semi-automatic rifle and I'm not sure if its action actually broken or if it was just unfamiliarity with equipment (either on actor's or character's part)
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Thanks again mate for the additional information and context - that helps explain a lot of what I seen in the film so much appreciated!
The film is based on a fictional book. Writer Antti Tuuri collected memoirs in Kauhava. Some people are real. Especially the officers, for example the regiment commander lieutenant colonel Matti Laurila (his rank was not general, as you guessed in part 1/2) was a famous military commander in South Ostrobothnia fi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matti_Laurila Also the company commander lieutenant Yrjö Haavisto was a real person.
Thanks mate for the link and the additional information. I will read through that tonight.
The people from Ostrobotnia, don''t show their emotions, like the people in Eastern Finland. And in common, Finns don''t show their emotions. That's why in your eyes it feels quite akward.
Thanks mate - some other people in the live chat during the premiere explained to me that not showing emotion is a particularly characteristic of the region/tribe that the people portrayed in this movie were from. I wasn't aware of that and of course I had seen emotion in the Unknown Soldier but again it was explained to me that this was more characteristic of the people shown in that Movie hence the difference. Again as an Outsider I was not aware of that - so I just assumed it was just better acting or directing between the two movies - you live and learn as they say.
43:00 they try to speak russian, but it´s like the rally english! :D
Cool - thanks for letting me know mate - much appreciated!
Thank you for good reaction.
Thanks for watching mate and for your kind comments. I appreciate it! Have a good evening
Ok, first thing is that timecap between Talvisota and this third and newest version of Unknown soldier is about 28 years,so you know how they are different because all effects and money used to it. Second is that Talvisota is Winter war and Unknown soldier based to continution war. Third thing is that translation in this version shows here like Google translation...SO it is SHIT!! 😊 Talvisota had about 630k people in thearters and Unknown soldier little over million. BUT NOTHING COMPAIRS to original Unknown Soldier from 1955... 2,5 mil!! And Finland is now about 5,6 mil nation. All respect To all our grandfathers and grandmothers Who gived us change to live in freedom!
Tomorrow 6.12 is our INDEPENDENCE DAY, So THANK YOU TO MY GRANDAD AND ALL THOSE WHO GIVE US COUNTRY WITHOUT RUSSIANS!!!!
Thanks Caesar for watching the videos, the comment and for the information. I was aware that the movies both focused upon different Wars but related wars as the continuation war would likely not have taken place if the Winter War never had. From what I have been told, there are three different Movies based on the novel the Unknown Soldier and everyone seems to have their own favourites based on the comments I received. You are right though - that is some Cinema attendance for the 1955 version for a country of your size.
From someone based in one small nation to another who both had to struggle for their Freedom and Independence have a great Independence day
Nurmo town/county in Pohjanmaa . This attack march 5.1940. Church hill at Äyräpää.
Light (Cavalry ) Unit 8 total loss 44 KIA ,33 wounded from that Nurmo area. Unit was discontinued
Again significant losses so I'm not surprised the Unit was disbanded
Private Martti and the new company commander Rajala were not on terms..old grudges.because of this Rajala sent Martin to say to the commander of 5 companies, "hello!
Okay. I did not know that. Thank you for sharing
Did Paavo get hit? I think you missed the most dramatic scene if you missed that.
Hey Lainet thanks for watching the video and the comment. Yes I did miss it unfortunately - it's one of the downsides of doing a first time reaction. Because for copyright and viewer interest reasons, I have to keep looking up from the Movie Screen to the Camera to make comments. And of course since I haven't seen the movie before I do not know if I am doing that during an important or dramatic scence - but at least you know it was a first time reaction then and not just me claiming that it is when it is not.
@@JTRetroReactions You could just pause the movie if you're going to comment more than just a few words so you won't miss anything
Not possible for the free view versions I put up on here mate - it's not financially viable for the time it would take - I do that for my Patreon versions though
1:20:35 all of these men were from town called Nurmo which is located in southern ostrobothnian region midwestern Finland. it was a disaster when they got too high casualties and all men were from the same town. i actually live about 30km away from Nurmo in Southern ostrobothnia and there is also joke that The Southern Ostrobothnian men had to be tied to a tree so that they wouldn't go to war before the others :D
Ha ha - thanks for sharing that joke with me mate - I like it - I'm sure other regions will have similar though about themselves - that's assuming Finnish regional rivalry is as hot as it is here in Ireland :)
Based on vöinölinna talvisota its basically erkkis memory of the war so based in reality and in real characters
they shelled shit out of everything, my grandfather told me that it was it was beyond anything.
Hey Gibbettoo, Thanks for watching the video and the comment. Some other commentors have shared with me as well that they had an extremely large concentration of Artillery across the entire front so it must have been tough for the Soldiers like your Grandfather who had to deal with it. My own experience of artillery is that it is one of the worst things to deal with as you feel helpless and have no way of fighting back. You just have to sit there and hope the shell does not have your name on it. Have a good evening.
18:28 About Sweden selling too large shells seems be not true. It might be error in the script, but they say Sweden sold too large shells that doesn't make sense because Sweden actually produced only smaller shells then Finland used. Sweden produced 37,40,75,105,120 and 150mm shells. Finland used mainly soviet 76,122 and 152mm guns as artillery. We also had some 75mm guns bought from different nations. I have tried to research where book that this film is based on got this info, but example book History of Finnish field artillery part 1&2 don't mention anything about getting wrong size shells.
Reason for lack of artillery support through the whole Winter war was availability of artillery shells. Even in many cases when troops had enough shells to do proper artillery support they were only allowed to spent daily quote, so our 7-8 factories forging artillery shells could keep up.
During the Winter-war Finland fired 461 003 76 and 122mm artillery shells and produced only 402 940
Interesting - I thought it was a strange comment as well but as I only knew the very basics of this conflict I didn't really want to call it out in case it was wrong as it could have been a mistranslation in the English Subtitles which sometimes happens so thanks for sharing that - interesting reading.
It happened quite often during Winter War that artillery got ammos that weren't the right size, i think it has more to do with logistical errors than with the nations selling them. They did put some clothes around the shell and kept shooting though, so no biggie i guess when you have to shoot what you got
Really - hassle you don't need at times like that but at least they managed to find a workaround.
No you don't throw molotov cocktail to exhaust pipe rather you try to get it into intake
Fair enough - I was not familiar with the structure of those Tanks (T26 and T27s) I have been told since so did not know about the air intake on that tank prior to this. Cheers.
You talked in another film about Finland not having the equipment. In fact, Finland didn't believe in a major invasion. The lines were in bad places and poorly equipped. When the attack started, nobody dared to wake Mannerheim. Ammunition stores were kept locked up. No mines to slow them down, and so on.
Thanks mate for watching the video and for sharing that information. I appreciate it
The Winter War film tells about real events..tells about the stages of Infantry Regiment 23
Thanks again mate for sharing that information
Coldest winter for me was in 90's, -38 Celsius. -15 Celsius feel warm when you had many cold winters in your life. Winter war had about -38 Celsius and wind make colder. Airport in Netherlands had +10 Celsius in January and that was very warm to me. Finns are genetically from Asia, Volga and Ural. 10000 years ago people moved to area of modern Finland (after Ice Age).
Christianity came from Sweden about year 1100, Catholic Church and later Swedish king had Reformation in 1500's and it made Finns and Swedes Lutheran. Sweden took part of 30 Years War. Religion had strong control of people, if person did not go to Sunday Church, he/she got shame punishment. Modern Finns are members of Church just because tradition and there is discounted prices for religious ceremonies like funerals. Even people does not believe God, they stay as members.
Karelia (South East) part of Finland is very flat. Little bit north and then start old mountain area. Finland have lot of forest and lakes that limit movement. Soviet needed roads for movement. Motti tactics cut supply lines and Soviets had some problems to get food and there was cases of cannibalism. When Finns dug trench line to old graveyard, soldiers made jokes about being in blessed soil.
Thanks again Anjing for all of that background information and context you shared. For me, technically the coldest winter I have experienced was in New England where it was -24 C but to honest it felt colder in Ireland where the temp was about -5 C as we have a wind chill factor here in Ireland due to the Sea. So surprisingly I was able to manage quite well in the -24 C more so then the typical Irish temps as it didn't have that wind chill factor. Not sure if you get the Sea Chill in Finland - if you do - then I don't think I would be able to handle your Guys cold!
We have own beautifull and old animistic tradition/faith that has values of living harmony with nature and each others. Chrisatianity is mostly destroyed it as it do for all beautifull thing but that is different story. There is lot of Finnic and Sami people in Russian territory but that subject goes easily to political stage and I leave it here. After all *Finnish roots all worth of read. Not all Europeans are from Indo-europian roots.
Very true regarding the roots mate - for example Irish People in the West of Ireland are Basque by genetics and no one knows where the hell they came from
Linguistics and genetics are two different things, which not always go hand in hand.
Modern Finns are not genetically "Asian". We are a mixture of different peoples moving to the area of modern Finland from all directions.
All Europeans have some "Siberian" genes, more or less. We Finns just on average have a couple of percents more. Still - despite of our language - we are well genetically over 90% "European".
@@KA-jm2cz
There are only a handful of Sámis left in russia. Perhaps you are referring to the Samoyedic peoples - like the Nenets and Selkups - who lead a kind of similar lifestyle. They are more numerous in russia.
Compare this to the Hollywood stuff. Different thing completely.
Absolutely agree Ohris. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with a bit of Hollywood now and again but I describe it as Chewing Gum for the eyes. I prefer to watch European and International Cinema as they don't have access to the same CGI Budgets so they tend to focus more on story which delivers a better quality of movie in my opinion. In addition, like this Movie and indeed the Unknown Soldier, international Cinema often produces movies which are stories close to the hearts of that Country and they take great care in the making of them.
First of all, thanks for reacting to this quite unknown movie, which is one of my favourite war movies.
A comment on the religion issue you raised: I don’t think they were really fighting for religion or anything like that. They were fighting for their freedom mainly. The reason why there is so many references to religion is that people were in general quite religious and religion was big part in their life. But it was not the main reason for fighting.
He never claimed that religion would be a reason for their fighting, but used as a way to maintain morale and comradery. Which is true.
Thanks Terolah for watching the video and your comment. As Mr. Meatsoup says below, my comment on religion was got to do with its use to maintain morale. Religion was still quite important across all of Europe back then and to be honest it would have been more of a shock to not have religion used as a motivation factor then it being used as was shown in this movie. Some other commenters have also said that the region of Finland that these Troops came from was where the Awakening movement happened and therefore was quite a religious area - almost like the Bible Belt of Finland so the movie was realistic in that sense.
Thanks mate for watching the video and yes you are bang on the money in what you said - that is exactly what I meant. Thanks for seeing that.
The reason for Russians poor tactics was for that prior the winter war Stalin had made a purification in the red army. As executing all the experienced officers. So we finns are thankful for his paranoia.
Thanks Lassipylsy for watching the video, for the comment and for sharing that information. Indeed you are correct and if I am correct, old Adolf, use the performance of the Soviet Army in the Winter War as the basis for his decision to finally invade the USSR so those purges came back at Stalin in more ways then one - but luckily for Finland and the rest of Europe I would say.
1:09:00 The guy shoot like a hell and forgot to protect himself 😨
Very true mate - I think he just lost it which can happen - a mix of anger, frustration, battle weariness, stress and anxiety. It can get to the best of Soldiers no matter how brave they are.
Nobody helped Finland in the Winter War. My father fought in the Winter War, in Taipale.
Thanks for sharing your fathers story mate and respect to him for his service and bravery in fighting for his country. I thought the Swedes did send some help and men? Also, there were the international volunteers but I don't know how much of a help either of those were.
When the Winter War begun, many of the men took their own weapons with them. There was not even enough uniforms - some just put insignia to their headwear. This was called "Model Cajander" after the minister of the interior. Only way Finns could get heavy equipment was to capture it from the enemy - most of the equipment British had promised to give arrived _after Winter War was over_. And there is still stories going around spread by sympathetic foreign journalists - that lakes were covered with cellophane and trenches with furs...
Thanks elfbiter for sharing that information. Can you elaborate on what the stories spread by the journalists meant by saying the lakes were covered in Cellophane and the Trenches with Furs? Were they trying to say that the Finns had it easy?
@@JTRetroReactions I am not quite sure what the purpose of foreign journalists was aside from giving Finland good propaganda of Finns using ingenuity for defense. And, well, it would have taken lots of resources to, for example, cover thousands of lakes with cellophane. Some of those stories ended up in history books and of course into fiction like "Commando: For Action and Adventure" comic books. Of course there were also reports of what foreign correspondent regarded as exceptional like Lotta Svärd female support volunteers (my grandmother was one).
Cool mate - thanks for answering my question on that - respect to your Grandmother for her service and bravery. Have a good evening.
It might be intresstingbto know that people with ACTUAL front experience (from the winter war) was involved. So from that perspective its difficult to argue against.
Hey Michael - I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand your comment - it sounds like you were answering another comment maybe but it got posted solo - could be wrong - just let me know. Cheers.
I wonder how many trees they blew up in the making of this movie
Hey David, thanks for watching the video and the comment. Ha ha - good point - at least half a forest is my guess!
@@JTRetroReactions The good old times before CGI when explosions were authentic😄
Very true David mate - a time when people had to actually think and plan how they were going to film a scene and not just colour in the blanks later
fun fact about winter war and 2 war overall casualty was 50000 soviets allmoust 1.5milion
You comment on how differently people react with emotions in this movie, compared to the unknown soldier. It is completely understandable because in the unknown soldier people were in Karelia and Karelian people are emotional and show their emotions easily. The people in the movie Talvisota are from southern Ostrobothnia, they don't like to show their feelings, which also becomes clear in this film, i know that because i am from there. Here in Finland there are two very different tribes, East and West Finns. They are genetically very far apart, but still very united nation.
Thanks again mate for the informative post and yes in the live chat during the premiere many people pointed out to me that this is the reason for the lack of showing of emotions - due to the different tribes depicted in the two movies. As an outsider I wasn't aware of that difference between the regions so incorrectly I put it down to a lack of acting - but good to learn these things. Thanks again for sharing that information.
Calling "them" neighbours is sarcastic way to call orks.
Thanks again mate. I've picked that up since but I didn't get it at the start to be honest but now I do. Cheers.
When you used bayonets, weapon wasn’t as accurate. I’m not sure did army even distripute bayonets, all guys has knifes for close combat
True but that is why you only attach bayonets at the last moment. Bayonets also offer other advantages - the length of the blade provides distance between you and your enemy. The ability to be able to shoot can assist with either a direct kill or dislodging your bayonet if it gets caught in Ribs etc. Plus a twist of a bayonet given the depth of entry ensures the enemy is messed up beyond belief - all of those things are a lot harder to achieve with a knife.
funny part is, like, some of explosives are clearly not "hollywood explosives", must have been a nightmare to film, like those do look something to 7km/s explosives instead of funny haha-much flame type , those are basically throwing a can of axe body spray in a bon fire
Thanks for watching and for your comment. Agreed, if you have seen my reaction to Rukajarven Tie then you will know how much I gave out about the explosive effects in that movie and given this movie is much older than RT, they did a really good job in this film with the special effects.