my MOST FRUSTRATING day at the track equals MAJOR REGRET
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2023
- I spent all summer rebuilding the UglyTruck and its turbo big block to hopefully make it a lot quicker and achieve a 9 second quarter mile pass, but I feel like it's all gone wrong... As much fun as I have going to the track, this time was different.
While it might not be working great on the track just yet, watch how fun it is on the streets...
• turbo big block sleepe... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
LT you might not have made your UTG ET goal that trip out but this build is an absolute win for us viewers. Besides, the time you were missing is 80% in the DA. Adjust those shift points and hit a track thats not at 5000 feet of elevation. 9.90s here we come. Love the content!
Wont let me comment on page.
But curious if he was at the same amount of boost as the 10sec pass?
I could of missed LT saying it
@macattack1392
He mentioned his first run being around 13 psi, and then the rest were around 17 psi. He also said he had a hard time paying attention to the gauge. It could have varied.
@ThanenJ thanks. Didn't know for sure tho. I would hope he was atleast set to the same but since higher elevation he could of went for more to compensate.
Oddly, doesn't he have a computer for the data? Can't remember. Bc he could of looked at that quickly if so.
Turbos were used in Planes to help with high altitude flying.
The intake manifold on the 8.1 is the biggest draw back to high rpm. It’s designed for torque production so it will begin to lay over above 4600 rpm. My c30 with an 8.1 224/234-112 .527 lift cam was all done at 5200 rpm. Try putting the raylar intake you have on it and see if that helps it rpm.
I’ve been thinking that since day one.
Ya intake definitely makes sense that and cam are pretty much all that control power band
Yea. It's kind of annoying he's had it sooooo long and knows the factory one is bad
@manworksgarage well it would be fine to run the number but it's ment for the other engine and it sounded like it was a prototype or something but if he can get another one then that is probably the play
I think the gearing and reviewing the torque converter slip will go along way. Turbo motors love load and lower gears will help load it up more. I think his converter may need another look too.
You not a failure. You just don’t have the combo right. The changes you talked about sounded like you will get it. You got this. First time to the track don’t always go as planned.
That's exactly what I was thinking: 1st time out after all the mods/moving/changes, etc. it was just to get a feel for it. Now, the adjustments will come into play.
You need an electronic boost controller. So you can choose when to add boost. Also you should have turned boost up to make up for the DA. I think that is making much more of a difference than you’re giving it credit for. I think you could also use a rear gear ratio change or a bigger tire to spread out that power band.
Just watching the tach I think you’re converter is to lose for the grunt low end power I think your heading the right way with the gears but your videos inspire so many of us and gave this engine a voice again thanks so much and I’m confident you will get your 9!!
Couple thoughts.
1. Get it on a dyno and tune your shift points to use as much of the curve as possible.
2. Get a cut-out. I totally understand wanting the full exhaust for street use, but its choking it out on the track.
3. A slight bump in the rear gear would definitely help, but I think 1 and 2 are more important.
Also, is the Mustang still on the docket or did I miss something about it being let go?
Have the money to modify, should mean having money to tune. I will be after I have the 2800 Stall with cam to fix the idle
@@shadowopsairman1583is this LT's personal account or something?
He said in a previous video the Mustang is going away.
Sadly, I think he sold the mustang. I was looking forward to that different motor combo.
The thing about Bandimere is on a warm day your DA can be like 8-9000 which is insane. Maybe an exhaust dump would be good to help decrease back pressure after the turbine.
What’s your converter slip like?
If you're turning the motor faster, maybe you are generating a bunch of back pressure in the turbo.... Keep up the good work!!
I can imagine the level of your frustration. But keep in mind, with all the changes you made, you’ve essentially got a whole new animal to work with. You’ll get it!
Also, to keep things apples to apples, maybe you should consider going back to Las Vegas to run it at the same elevation you got the 10 second run.
I think you're on the right track with the changes you mentioned. I'm sure you'll get deeper into the 10s with those changes(@ higher elevation). Walking certainly sucks when you're focused on flying...love what you're doing & appreciate you sharing this with us!
A fun day at the strip is never a bad day LT! 👍🏻
I enjoyed the video and was sympathetic to your frustrations! I looked forward to seeing it back out with different rear gears and updated front suspension.
The best part about this whole thing is you learned and you have more data to make stuff happen and probably prevented catastrophic failure of your engine for revving it so high. And LT, don’t doubt yourself so much, because the monolith swap would be a good idea! Getting the traction issue fixed will naturally help your ET times and the gearing with the smaller tire will help tons.
Biggest problem might be chasing that number at that DA, another thing we’ve had a lot of changes with when using caltracs is lowering the tire pressure kinda moderately low. Extension as much as possible up front and about halfway compression in the rear. Shift points are definitely a big with 1-2 & 2-3 timing not so much pressure as long as they’re firm. Keep gunning at it and don’t give up on that 9.99💪🏼
Hey... Big blocks needs slicks! Roll strong brother, great work!
As someone who deals with trial and error, and data collection, any day that you got data was a good day. I know you think its a failure and you are frustrated, but at 14 minutes into the video you started listing things you need to fix - you're on your way. Keep moving forward by small increments if you have to.
Awesome job and it was a treat to watch! The speedo swings so fast to a buck twenty! I wish my old Dodge Dart was that fast! Reminds me of the good ol' days!
You are not a failure at all LT, the pieces of the puzzle are there just have to put these together to get what you want and I read some other comments on here, add that raylar intake on the ugly truck and see what it does. Glad that you had a fun day at the track!
You'll get there, bub. Have some patience. You've made quite alot of changes to the truck as well as your life (moving, owning a shop, etc). We're all pulling for you and we know you'll get there. Congrats on all the success you've had so far and thanks for uploading all the ups and the downs.
I'll bet if you went numerically down in rear gear and I don't think you need much but it would reduce spin and obviously help on the big end especially with the diesel torque you have I've been subscribed since you started this channel and seen all the progress on the ugly truck it's one of the best builds around keep up the great work
Agree 100% on the gear change. We had 8.1 HDs with 3.73 and 4.10 gears. With a single tire truck and 16” tires any load that should be on or behind the truck we could handle with 3.73s. I know yours is way different than our factory engines with 190,000+ hard miles on the odometer. But it should still perform better at lower rpm’s if the pinion will take it. The more you look back at your day and the data you collected the less you will think it is a failure. Thanks for sharing!
Your day at the track was not a failure. It was data collection. Everytime at the track that you don't break anything. It;s a good day. You made a ton of changes, and it's gonna take a little bit of time to sort those changes out. Once you get it dialed in. Then you can kick yourself if you don't hit the number.
My - severely limited, but learning - understanding of the drag vs. cruise diff. ratios is that a numerically lower ratio (3.08 vs. 3.42) will give higher top end speeds at the expense of 0-60, etc., while a numerically higher ratio (4.11, etc.) generally benefit acceleration rates and torque application to the wheels, but at the expense of top end. Hopefully I'm not too misguided on this. I know there are a variety of calculators online that can fine-tune your selection for your specific build, some I've been using to plan my own goals (currenly regearing a Suburban for larger tires to mimic stock rev's and travel speed). While I'm sure you've been using some of these resources already, I'd look at them again with an updated perspective of these runs. Keep up the great work. :)
Dyno's aren't cheap & you're obviously doing this on a budget (sort of). See if PFI would do a video with you working through what works or doesn't. Brent's got a dyno, he's a tuner, a racer for 20+ years, he's got altitude and sea level experience, and he's a youtuber in your area. I hear what sounds like a little area of turbo choke (kind of a surge or flutter) in the middle of your runs that it eventually pulls thru. Like the engine isn't ingesting enough air to keep the compresseor happily flowing in that spot. An exhaust dump that you can close on the street would help back-pressure after the turbine, which Richard Holdner preaches is important. You're not a failure! You have a running project car! Some of us have been working on a turbo beater project for 10 years without a first drive!
I was just thinking he should get a hold of Brent, that would be a good couple videos for both of em
in a way you could say they just did do a video together @7:56 you see Brent walking back toward the pits on the phone.
He has plenty of cash to play with toys, heck he has a shop, im sure he can afford a wheel dyno tune
I'd put the truck on a dyno to see if you are getting power to the ground at higher rpm. If the truck is hitting a wall and you cannot see an obvious problem in the data logs like running put of fuel then I'd be looking at the transmission/converter.
You didn’t fail! You tried something new and it didn’t work for now. You’ll get it dialed in. I can’t wait to see that s10 build!!! 🥰
LT, is you take a step back and look at your engine displacement, engine torque, vehicle weight and 2WD; it is going to be difficult to get it to hookup from a dig. You have two options, 1. reduce timing initially ( for the first 60 to 100 feet) or 2. get some wider and taller tires. I think reducing the initial timing and figuring out where to ramp the timing in after 60 to 100 feet will allow you to learn more about your current setup. I would personally go with wider and taller rear tires since you are at redline when you cross the traps and a taller tire would reduce your RPM as you cross the traps giving you room for more MPH in the future.
Hey LT, the UT just needs more dialing in, that's all🙂👍👍👍Stick with it! You'll get it figured out!
Torque Converter is likely burning up power! After launch, tach flashes to 5k for practically the entire pass & climbes to 5.5k out the back. Gearing may be ok, may want to verify logs & trans temps. This may be the reason for the short shift, if shift rpm is below flash rpm. Ideal stall is usually 500 rpm below peak torque, GL
Super sad this will be Bandemere's last season in Morrison. If I'm not at the track on a warm summer day, I'm typically laid out in my kayak on big soda lake listening to the roar of dragsters. Going to miss that. Hoping they'll find a new spot soon, but it'll never be Morrison.
Yeah end of an era I moved away in 2016 but it hurts to hear about the closing. Colorado was good to me but it seems to be loosing its identity
Not a failure at all LT!!! Just means you need more seat time to get the more power and suspension dialed in is all... No doubt with the way your brain works you will have Ugly Truck right and blowing doors off mustangs, Camaros, and track hawks for sure!! We the ppl know it and have confidence in you man!
You put a full exhaust on it. Place the cutout in for racing on it and dump that exhaust out sooner.
Do they make a lockup converter for that transmission? Because of BB+TURBO torque your converter seems to be flashing too high and just staying there. A lower stall would help traction at launch and keep it tighter at the top end. When you include 5000' DA difference from Vegas just running as quick would have been an achievement. A 9.9 would have been all but impossible. Time for another trip to the dyno but I'd look into that converter.
Don't feel down; the ugly Truck is a beast and we know that you'll just keep improvements and making adjustments and when the time comes, get back down to the LV track to really compare apples to apples.
Your channel is fun because of the unique project vehicles. Nice to see something other than another turbo ls. Hope you stay with the big block, no replacement for displacement!
You’ll get it LT just think it’s only the first trip out with all the changes you made. You got this!
With every failure just remember that is one step closer to your goal. Keep going LT. Glad to see that ugly truck got to taste the track before it’s too late.
When you ran the 10.92 You had the exhaust through the fender. Now you're back to full exhaust that may be causing some back pressure. Maybe adding a electric exhaust cutout into your exhaust under the cab may help with the back pressure. That way you can have full exhaust on the street and open it up at the track. You did all that work to help the 8.1 breathe better opening up the intake adding Cam valve springs but the full exhaust may put a kink in that.
Don't forget DA kills a lot of time as air density is better for horsepower than not. Now, if you could make the axle separate harder, and slower to prevent bottoming the shock on rebound you'd cut a good bit of time in the short track with more boost off the line. As you've said the shift points need to happen at peak torque for the motor and let it power through the load. Others have said the intake is a better for the bottom end and while it's better for the bottom side of the rev range, out the back you need the power at the rpm for that 120 ish speed. She's definitely got a 9 in her but there is a good bit of improvement needed in the chassis and the way you utilize the gearing
Alot of intake improvements but you restricted the exhaust. Put the fender exhaust back on for track.
LT I think putting a more aggressive cam in without addressing the intake manifold is what’s holding you back. Your cam wants to breathe at higher rpm but the intake just won’t allow it. Use the bluecat trans tuning tool to help dial in the shift points.
Keep up the fight man you will get there and that blazer is gonna be hella fun allwheel drive turbo 😬
I really appreciate videos like this. We all want to go out and be a hero but sometimes the car/truck makes us work for it more than we want. I heard a quote recently that was something like “that feeling your chasing is hiding behind the work you’re avoiding”. Not to insinuate you’re avoiding the issue but I just think you’re gonna find it. If i had to make some guesses:
Assuming you have a solid dyno graph look at the peak power/torque locations and adjust shift points
Figure out how to feed in the power a bit sooner. It seems like there was only 1 run where it seemed to launch aggressively (from my couch perspective)
I agree it seems to be pulling a bit meh up top but maybe thats more-so trans related and not so much the camshaft etc. idkn
You’re going to get there!!!
One of my favorite builds that your doing and love where you’ve taken this truck and where it’s at now!
Great to see you and Ugly Truck at Bandimere. Although short of where you want to be, looked like a great first outing with so much new and refreshed. I too only made it out at the very end of the season this year first outing didn’t even make it to tech! Second outing only made two passes and had issues with the nitrous system. Third outing finally got my first 9 second pass - six years after running 10.0’s … Keep at it - You’ll get Ugly Truck there!
You’ve taken the Ugly truck very far and should be proud. Time to get the 532 4wd beast going! That thing will be unstoppable
Looked really good. I’m sure once you get the shift points dialed in you’ll be happy. And maybe remove the filter off the turbo, that can restrict air intake.
If you want that motor to spin, you need a cam that makes power in the rev range you want. Also the intake should match the cam. Any way you did a great job, and I know you can sort things out. Again great job.
I agree with the gear change. I couldn't remember gear was in it, but it's very clear it's blowing through it way too fast. More front suspension travel will help. The rear still looked too stiff, hardly any squat on launch. Fix the gear and tune that chassis, you will get there.
It royally sucks the local Salt Lake City race track closed down for you to try more often! Miss that place! Keep up the effort and I think you are onto something with the 3.08 if you can get it to stay in the sweet spot of that torque curve! It's too bad the new 10 speeds are so pricy and not really budget friendly to build yet!
Put an LS in it!!
Just kidding, think about it like diesels, they have a decent front half but lack the back half unless insanely modified. So a bbc kinda the same thing where it doesn’t like to spin rpm and you’re trying to force it to without the correct changes. First a higher cam but it needs an intake as well.
Second you need to upgrade your suspension, 4 link would be ideal, but atleast use the parts you have on your other frame and uograde to front adjustable suspension as well. We’re all here to watch you have fun with it!! Don’t sweat it, just keep bringing us the content🤘🏻
You upgraded the cam, made big airflow changes to the intake, amongst other things. But kept the s480 turbo. That 8.1 is moving some serious air and you have a full exhaust. I’d be willing to bet a little bigger turbo would fix a lot of your issues. It’s choking in the high rpm’s. And you’re footbraking it and tightening up the suspension. It needs to leave the line and be able to flash the converter to get it to separate properly. My Silverado does the same thing if I try to leave on top of the converter. Just my 2 cents. Keep up the good work. I love the content
Im in combination hell too. Trying to get a Torque converter to work with my no low torque high reving diesel in my gmt800.
Not only will adjustable feont shocks help with a good set of springs, but make sure you get longer balljoints to help woth extra travel you will gain with the new shocks.
Good stuff ,I’m always excited for the new videos!!
Loosen the rebound on the rear shocks and tighten the compression. How much preload do you have on the caltracs?. Stock suspension up front with some lightning springs and some double adjustable shocks up front all you need. Iv been 1.34 60ft and 123 in the 1/8 with what you have out back and some double adjustable shocks up front.
Hang in there LT! We love the content.
I know this is coming from a random youtuber comment and maybe you've addressed why you did things a certain way, but IMO there's a few things that I would want to change:
1) Larger camshaft, I think I remember the video where you justified the camshaft, but that engine needs some rpm, like 7k+
2) that transmission should really have a manual valvebody, a transbrake with a bump box if you want to utilize all starting line power, Jakes D3 transbrake is very popular, characteristics of a manual and automatic valve body, very neat piece.
3) needs major suspension work, obviously talk to the guys at caltrac get that dialed, and whoever you bought shocks through work with them to get that figured out - although I'm sure you already know this.
4) I think you've already scaled it, but in those trucks sometimes the weight ratio favors the front a lot, maybe try throwing a bit of weight in the back and see what happens.
I don't claim to be a know it all, just been around a time or two and this is what I would start with. hope this helps!
I think you are on the right track tire size and gearing makes a huge difference and I would upgrade the gears and axles soon if that truck does hook and go it may break some stuff that you haven’t changed yet
You will get there ! Love all your builds keep it up.
Nothing broke. The heads didnt separate from the block. Good job on all that.
According to the tach, your converter flashed 5000. Remember you have a big low RPM torquer motor. I would bet your torque peak is between 3500 and 4000. Old school thought is that the converter should flash at or just below the torque peak. The whole way down the track you were "on the converter". When the transmission shifted the RPM changed maybe 500 RPM. Changing the gear from a 3.42 to a 3.08 is just going to make it be "on the converter" even more. It would be useful to know what RPM the HP and torque peaks are. I know you know this, when you boost an engine it makes it's power earlier in the RPM range. Your HP peak could be below 5000, or right in that area. If that turns out to be the case, as soon as the truck moved it was out of "steam" because it was at or above all of it's power. I think a converter change and the traction to hook it up will easily exceed your goals for the truck. Call a converter company today.
This
Thought the same myself as I watched the tach... too much converter
The combo you built isn’t exactly optimum for low ETs.. I think your goal with this truck should be what you have already achieved.. a fun, useable and quick truck.. Track days are learning experiences and this day, you learned.. No need to feel defeated .. the build has been a blast to follow and the result is very cool. I would love to have it myself.. but alas.. I have an 02 RCSB with a 5.3 that will have less lofty goals.. an Autocross/ Canyon carver.(I am more of a Road Racer than a Drag racer).. and around here (mountains of East TN) going around corners is more useful. Thanks for everything !
2 birds with one stone .
Effectively lower gear ratio and increase traction with taller tires ..
Quit treating it like a LS engine.
Tight tight tight converter or one that can take lock up.
Truck has the power but over 5k rpm the entire pass you never even felt the power it really has .
Seriously dont screw around with a million things and be more disapointed .
Taller tires and waay tighter converter and it will pull like a freight train .
Intake is fine exhaust is fine gear is fine weight is fine.
Use the torque
I think intake manifold is holding you back and maybe bigger turbo on exhaust side such as turbine wheel or ar to get the turbo flowing up top.
Keep your head up. It will get there eventually. Can you fit a taller slick on the back? That would improve traction and soften the gear ratio also.
Success man! It didn’t blow up with all that power!
Looks like it needs the 2nd shift point raised. Converter seems a little loose in the upper rpm range, like it just stalls down the whole track almost. Shift point will prob help that. Go the other way with the cal trac and go for weight transfer and let it squat but control the compression setting to avoid a bounce. Seems like its too light in the rear and not hitting the tire hard enough to weight transfer it enough to plant it to use separation. Just my observation. Def dig the truck and love the 8.1 idea. Currently have a 5.3/4l80 boosted suburban along with other stuff.
its not the engine brother, use that torque, just dont treat it like a small block and RPM, harness thos cubes and low end torque, lower ratio gear, you'll get UGT dialed, its alot of new parts, they gotta learn to work together is all.
and YES dude, 4 link the 4wd truck, get those leaves under ugt, you are not a failure brother!
Boost by gear, moving weight back, soften the leave, a proper boost controller will all help.
Ide suggest moving weight back. Put a fuel cell in the back and add weight bars to the bed that are removable to help with traction.
Lt something a older racer Told me when I was younger. When you change a lot of things at 1 time you run into searching for problems. Chang one thing at a time that way you can find out what the issue is
Man, i know there was at least one guy that after the first run think why that stock silverado running slick’s and saw you spin on the second run like 😮😮😮.😂 This truck is a beast. I love to watch shorts of this thing doing casual rolling burnouts on the street.
Don't beat yourself up it's a fast truck for being fairly stock top end made to run at the lower end. I think that changing the gears to take advantage of the low end torque you will hit mid to lower 10's but also the elevation is a killer. Put the focus on building the AWD chassis truck build as a low 9 sec truck and focus on the ugly truck as sweet sleeper to take for a spin and relieve stress. 👍
Definitely need to practice on that ETA
keep up all the hard work.
America 🇺🇸 💪🏼🛠️
Other than blowing through the converter .
I had the same issue at the track once like 25 years ago 🤣 was blowing the spark out .
Car ran perfect could not tell anything was wrong kept adding boost and wouldnt go any faster .
Fresh ngk's with really tight gap and picked up a full second in the ¼.
Found the issue .
A bigger tire and different gears will put you in the right direction.... your going to tweaking it for a while... You changed and now time for fine tuning... Keep up the good work...
This is a great and awesome projectcar! Did you pass it on the dyno after the changes?
Whats the rear gear and does the 4l80e have the super tall 1st gear still? May want more stall
Ive been looking into the Northstar, its essentially an ls with vct... would be pretty cool, in theroy anyway, as long as you could make it last..
Damm UglyTruck is fast. Nice job!
You definitely need to look into your torque converter as well, Your truck should be dropping at minimum 800-1000 rpm on the shift. I wish you the best of luck, I just built a short bed obs with a 8.1 s485 turbo and 4l80
ALSO! Are you still using HPtuners and factory ecu stuff? If so I highly reccomend switching to a terminator x max system. It’s what I use, then you can ditch that manual boost controller and a bunch of the extra stuff your running to make stock ecu stuff work.
Not a failure! Strong times for a truck that size. And you are in some thin air! Down here in Mississippi you would be ripping 10s!
Definitely get together with the PFI guys and get in a good day of dyno time in. That'll tell you everything you need to know. Maybe bring the Raylar intake with you just to see
Come out to Mission Raceway in Mission BC Canada, we are right at sea level. and the air can be really good.
I know sounds off what i am saying lol. Maybe try find another stock intake and install it. See any changes. Maybe ported lost torque cause the way engine runs on low end torque? I would leave the racing cam in if it’s not too big for losing torque. For gears rear end. Try 3.23 gears or 3.08’s. 2.73’s might be too much dtk. My guess lol. Just thinking ideas. Best really know for sure is intake u got on now making power on the dyno.
Just spit balling here, but with a crew cab and a long bed and almost no weight on the rear axle outside of the suspension. I would think throwing 50-100lbs in the bed at the tail gate would help with traction. As you said, clean up the trans tune and tires. But I think just a bit of weight (Weather that be making rear suspension softer or adding weight) would make a world of difference.
Put the raylar intake in it will knock down some if the low rpm torque to hook up and make more upper rpm power down track porting the stock intake improved airflow but without changing runner length the power curve isn't changed
The only failure that would’ve happened today is if you had never tried! Keep at it , don’t give up!
LT you might try running a taller gear in the rear end, i think your running out of gear and you have to be careful with those long heavy drive shafts in trucks, they tend to come apart. also i think you have more than enough torque off the line to run a taller gear. it will help your launch, lower your driveshaft speed and get you a little better power on the top end
You were able to drive it back on the trailer. Take the win. You know what direction to go.
I have a raylar 8.8 and wish i would have done a 6.2 or 6.0 instead. Cost to power to support leaves you on your own. I feel for ya!!!!!
Wish I'd have been able to make it down to that track day on Friday, even just to spectate. At least you got to hit up Bandimere one last time.
Just remember if you give up you will never hit your goal. Never quit you got this.
Just throwing this out there....is it blowing through the converter?. Or perhaps the gear change will do it.
Hi LT, you are being too hard on yourself man, baby steps you will get there, and besides is that truck set up for that altitude, you know it'll run 10s, hang in there! I've done some drag racing and you can beat yourself to death for nothing other than a bad day. YOU GOT THIS LT!! Good Man! GO!👍👍👍👍👍
I have to assume the transmission and converter are getting BEAT UP with the torque, weight, and demand on this thing. Not sure if you're using a lockup converter, but may be worth trying that in high gear to see if it helps your "flattening" of power in the last 300' you mention.
May want to use some traction bars , that run forward to the frame unless u have them already , and I’d love to see the 4x4 truck . Which if u can put the power down u can get there .
DA doesn't really matter with a turbo engine. If your producing the same boost at a DA of 500 and the same boost level at 7500 DA, your making the same power regardless of what the DA is. I'd also recommend an electronic boost controller so you can dial in a lower boost for launch and 60 foot then ramp the boost up for the rest of the pass.
Just curious are you locking the converter up? If so when?