A very good friend of mine (RIP Dave) once spent Two years in a Norwegian Prison for Drug smuggling offences, he believed it was the best thing that happened to him, gained an IT qualification and learned a Language, generally turned his life around.
That's what prisons should look like. The idea of imprisoning someone in order to punish them in prison is unbelievably short sighted and damaging to society.
As a Scandinavian who have lived and still often work in America I can confirm that most Americans have no clue just how fundamentally broken America has become.
As an American that lives in Norway I knew how broken the US was and is but there was so much I didnt know in my 7 years here. So folks back home has NO idea.
@@oolillemyoo4099 I had to get an MRI for my knee maybe a year after coming here I had the card by then so I didnt have to pay for it. But I found out if I had it would have cost me about $75.00 . I wanted to pay just to get the recipt so I could show it off but they wouldnt let me. The thing that shocks people most is that I have to file American income taxes every year even though I dont live in the US anymore.
@@DLord227 - That still baffles me. I struggle to understand that. One of my American colleagues in the UK still files taxes despite living here for 10yrs.
@@bisonkambaine5628 yeah as long as you're an American citizen you have to file a tax return no matter where you live. And get this. As an American you have to declare any money you have over $10000 to the government or be fined upto $10000
Norwegian here, thank you for your reaction. As to your question, after this new system was put in place in the late 1990s there hasn't been a single prison revolt, nor has there been - to the best of my knowledge - any escape from prisons. The closest to that has been a few inmates that were out on prison leave who failed to show up when they were supposed to, but that's about it. Also, there is no debate about this system, it's good and not a single politician wants to change it. In many ways, the way we treat our prisoners says a lot about how we are as a people. We cherish equality, equal opportunities, openness throughout society, and taking care of those who need to be cared for. I have two other videos I want to recommend to you. The first is Michael Moore visiting Norwegian prisons, it's an episode he just put on TH-cam and never aired because he said "The American people would never believe this if I showed it". th-cam.com/video/0IepJqxRCZY/w-d-xo.html The second is from a TV series that follows Norwegian Police officers on patrol, and it's very funny, but also shows how Norwegian Police officers handle situations. th-cam.com/video/J1PNPcnffbk/w-d-xo.html I hope you enjoy.
I think this prison is quite different to another norwegian prison called Ila landsfengsel, home of Anders B Breivik. Halden is for non violent offenders. They should compare Ila instead of Halden to american prisons. Another prison which would be mind blowing to americans is Ilseng, almost like a boarding school site for drunk drivers and people charged of gross economic misconduct. I gave a friend a lift there once because of his dui sentence and it was minimal security. As an inmate you would be stupid to escape because that will just get you into bigger problems and maybe a different, higher security prison.
I feel like for this kind of system to work, a country has to have other socio-economic problems more or less figured out. It's pretty bad if the inmate would have a better situation and community inside than outside. Those types of correction facilities would mostly work as such if the cause for criminality is personal, but if it's abject misery, it doesn't really address the problem. If after I leave prison I'm faced with needing to do crimes not to die and/or to protect my family, I'll do it again.
@@HenriqueErzinger You hit the nail on the head here. We have built up all the things you listed here and more over many decades. The humane prison alone is good, meaning inmates gets counselling, education, help to find jobs after prison and so on. But we also have a good social security system. No one has to live on the streets here, or go hungry. Building such a system takes time and isn't cheap, but we don't want to have it any other way. I wish you all the best.
Scandinavians are fantastic people, I remember seeing a video of a few police officers from Sweden, I think, that were in new York on the subway and talked a mentally ill guy with a knife down from his irate state. Complete verbal de-escalation and safe resolution for everything
It could all so have something to do with the education lenght and less emphesis on how too empty the magazine in your gun. I can tell you that in denmark the basic education as a police officer takes 2 years and 4 months. there too you have too add some previous education, before you can be admitted into the School. I think I heard it's was about 6 months in New York.
@@autohmae under 6 months. Damm thats not long, maby that is one off the problems, with the amount of police brutality im the U.S. Beside the amount of training, the instructors have under 6 months too sive out the psychopaths.
@@lasselund1643 The 'less than a barber' is supposedly a US average. It's very much part of the reason why. The other very important reason is: psychological screening of people to know if they are fit to be a police officer. And the whole culture which goes with it. For example look up: "US police training Warrior Mindset." But an other huge issue is: not enough people want to be a police officer. Long hours, dangers, etc. are some of the reasons why.
@Danno inthevanno yes and some policeofficers are just tired of, looking on your stupid face, or having a bad day,, but it most likely wont get you killed. During the last 10 years 11 persons have been shot and killed by the police in Denmark. comparing too the U.S. were allmost a 1000 are killed each year. adjusting for the population size, that makes it round numbers 20 times more likely too be killed by the police in the U.S. then in Denmark.
What's commendable is I'm finally seeing a decent American prepared to look outside of America as not the only country in the world to get information. I've been to the states and it's a fantastic place, but my conversations there were very limited to the American way, and hardly any knowledge outside of that bubble. If only more people could educate themselves on how other countries work (rightly or wrongly) and show more understanding, then I'm convinced the world COULD be a nicer place for the next generation of kids to grow up in. Keep up the good work Mr EB 👍
Yes, works both ways. I used to tell people I was Canadian because people would get angry at me because of something on the news. I would get cornered at bbqs or parties and people would want to talk about US policy or politics. I was 19 and hadn't even voted yet and fresh off a plane in New Zealand. Now, I live in Norway. I just tell people I moved here from New Zealand. (never should have left New Zealand)
@@TheAccidentalViking It didn't used to be that way. I lived in Norway in the 80s and during that time period most Norwegians envied Americans and liked them a lot. I was a Canadian but Norwegians can' tell the difference between a Canadian and an American. There was a U.S. exchange student that visited my Norwegian friend's town of Sandefjord and he was beloved even though he couldn't speak a lick of Norwegian and made no attempt to learn the language (ah how American). By the way New Zealand is an awesome place.
I would highly recommend to watch two other clips around the same theme: 1. Michael Moore - Norwegian Prison. He got some surprises, to say it mildly. 2. Prison Project: Little Scandinavia. U.S. prison guards visit Norway and try a similar project in USA.
This, is it the one where the US prisoners gets to draw their "ideal" prison, and the Norwegian just adds some walls and says, "Thats Halden prison" and I think the US prison added some cameras and both the guards and inmates suddenly felt more at ease and less hostile?
No, that's breaking the cycle. I tried to find it on TH-cam, but it seems to be gone. I found a clip though... m.th-cam.com/video/haHeDgbfLtw/w-d-xo.html
I live 25 minutes from Halden prison. A few years ago there was a story on the news that a few prisoners had been tiding up in the kitchen or something in the evening, and the new guard shift thought they already were in their cells and locked the cell block. They spent the entire night in the kitchen, wich had not been locked, watching TV and baking chocolate cake.
I heard another story where a woman in Oslo had an intruder in her home. Had a knife and was trying to rob her. She sat the would-be robber down and fed him something and talked with him and listened to his story about how he became a junkie while they both waited for the police to arrive.
The big difference after a prison stay is that you have a number of rights in Norway. Before you leave, you get a private rental agreement for housing and get costs and rent covered. If you do not have furniture, a washing machine, you will receive a sum of money that covers such. In addition, you get money for electricity and about $ 800 per. mnd. for food. So you MUST apply for jobs, go to courses or schools to get this - until you are self-sufficient.
The fact that this is a high security prison - murderers etc, is really stunning. The prisoners themselves make sure other prisoners behave - they don't want privileges revoked.
Crimes has a maximum sentence of 21 years in Norway, but at 14 years you can start getting parole which most people will get. After the 21 years you are accessed and can be sentenced with 5 year increment extensions for your sentence. Basically all murderers and rapists will be released after 14 years, it is only if the crime was really grim that you will have a longer sentence. If you are deemed mentally ill, like a psychopath or psychotic then you will be sentenced for treatment until you are stable for society. This means that you are expected to re-enter society no matter who you are or what you did, so you will go through rehabilitation. It is probably the largest shift in how things are done. Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Estonia, UK and more countries in europe do not have a genuine life sentence with the maximum sentence ranging between 14 and 25 years, and the death sentence is abolished in all of Europe. Sexual offenders are not shunned for life where you want to cut off their genitials or something, and child molesters are banned from working with children but are otherwise treated normally. There are not this sentiment that you can avenge a child
@@neogeo1670 culture may be different but not being willing to try new things is both childish and ridiculous. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
@@stevegray1308 sure, but the society in my homeland compared to the US is so drastically different, a whole other mentality.. if it's gonna happen in the US (that's never gonna happen) at least not to that degree... There has to be a quite homogeneous society that most people are on the same page witch the US is not
The department that is responsible for this is called «kriminalomsorgen» which directly translates to “criminal care” And that itself shows how we view the prisoners😊
The female guard who plays cards etc with inmates probably achieves more towards depressurising tensions and possible outbreaks of violence than ANY amount of 23hr lockdowns, privelege revocation etc. It probably WON'T work in all circumstances, but it seems to me that US prisons seem designed to constantly ramp up the anger, frustration and tension. Inmates are going to blow off steam against each other AND the guards, so everyone suffers. Why not at least try this system in the US? If it fails, you can smugly say 'I told you so', but it is SO obvious that the other way has been thoroughly tested, and has failed. Repeating it and expecting a different result is just stupid.
Wouldn't work in the US she'd end up getting assaulted. The US is a FAR more violent country than the scandavian countries. Also you don't have the rampant gang culture in those countries.
This way is not only to reintegrate, but it's also a preventiv against violence in the prison. We had no riots, in this maximum prison, with knives readily available, inmates are not afraid of being stabbed in the back by another inmate. With keeping it somewhat normal and focus on reducing tension and outlet for energy both physical and mental and creativity, inmates doesn't have all that build up anger, tension and frustration that leads to violence. Does this cost money? Yes of course, but you get it back with a very low redivision right and so both less crimes against other citizens and no need to spend money on keeping them in prison at a later date. It's and increase cost NOW, but you need less money for the prison system in the long run.
I've seen a lot of Americans react to similar videos, and one thing that always tends to come up is that they almost always say the prison cells in Norway look like dorm rooms or some sort of school-based campus housing. And I honestly don't know if that says more about American schools or Norwegian prisons.
The US has a private prison system..I live in Norway. And I feel pretty sure that politicians in the United States receive money to maintain such a system. Health care and prisons should be run by the public sector. 😀 But that's my view.
Lobbying is the U.S's biggest problem and it is the problem American people discuss the least. No point in discussing health care or prison reform till you solve lobbying.
Isn’t it awesome how we can look outside of our methods and find better ways to do things? I like your willingness to learn from the world. Love from Australia
You might be interested in looking up information about the Little Scandinavia project in Pennsylvania. They had CO's work for 3 weeks in Norwegian prisons for the purpose of getting inspiration to restructure a part of their prison. It is part of a documentary that is not finished but there is an extended trailer here th-cam.com/video/gTC1KI0STIY/w-d-xo.html - It might give you a bit of hope for the future of corrections in the US and maybe get ready to wipe away a tear or two. A sad thing for me, is to see how much, so many Americans talk about the 2'nd amendment to their constitution and not so much about the 8'th amendment. Amendment VIII (1791): Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. I noticed a Norwegian warden mention that here: th-cam.com/video/0IepJqxRCZY/w-d-xo.html
you can love your country and still want to make it better mate. you should check out "Trond Blattman on His Son's Death in the 2011 Utøya Attacks" to see some more of the cultural difference between the two places.
One of my former coworkers was a librarian at Halden. Older lady, recently retired. She didn't have any horror stories to share, despite often being alone with these prisoners in the library. She didn't need to be scared. I think that says a lot about how effective this place has been.
One of My oldest Friends lives in Oslo, and the kicker, punchline as far as I'm concerned is His Wife, Norwegian, and Their Friends and Family, Norwegian, still see room for improvement.
If you debase, degrade and dehumanise a prisoner don't be surprised that they have problems when released back into society. In UK lots of prisoners have had a poor education and/or a drug problem. There is no effort for rehabilitation due to budget cuts. The US system is about making money: private prison, cheap labour and companies selling authorised goods & clothes to the prisoners. Unless the guilty are given max sentences the powers that be & the public don't think "justice" has been done. I have seen similar videos before. In Michael Moore's Sicko he visited a prison in Norway. This is an enlightened way to treat criminals and seems to get good results.
I'm heading over to Norway for the first time in a couple of weeks. It's always been a country i've long wanted to visit for a variety of reasons. It tops a lot of lists for being a great country in which to live, can't wait to experience it for myself.
As I've thought about before on this subject and myself being a norwegian. If you treat persons as animals in society and in prison they will adapt and learn to live in that reality. Their identity is shaped by how we treat them. This leads towards people with a mentality that has been broken down over time and their adaption is thus survival by crime and violence as they learned that in prison over many years. Here we have a system that shows them what behavior does for them and thus hoe they can better their life and others by living a good life. Ofc ours people affected by the person wants revenge, or punishment. But the freedom taken away in prison is in itself a punishment as you are separated from society and your freedom of movement. But correction will make these people integrate in society and not reoffend affecting more people and thus costing the society less.
The college education for the prison guards (and everybody else) s free: no tuition fees. The cost of living and the books and materials are the expenses you take out a student loan for.
In many prisons in the UK the inmates have their own key so they can lock their cells when not in them which avoids theft of property. However it should be pointed out that the cells also have a master lock that the prison officers can use to lock the door at night time or at times when the inmates have to be locked up.
An important thing to be aware of is that for the prisoner the prison staff is perhaps their first encounter with humanity at its best behavior. The prison is in a way our opportunity to catch you when you fall, since you might do silly and wrong things on your way down.
On the keys to their cells thing, they are still locked in overnight and id presume at certain times of the day. They cant open their doors ejenever they feel like it. Its more about locking their own cells while they're out at work etc and know that no prisoners are gonna go in and steal stuff
This is a very good system for non-violent prisoners imo and emphasises rehabilitation and trust rather than punishment which leads to institutionalism. I think the main difference in cultures between Norway and the US , though is that Norway gives people a stake in society which gives them something to lose. Giving someone a job and security gives someone less reason to commit crimes. In the US and other less progressive countries if you have nothing to start with then you have little to lose.
I bet Norway does not have as many fatherless homes per capita as we have in America and the idea that that does not make a difference is foolish thinking
@@Alien300Blackout Fatherless upbringing has nothing to do with correction later in life. It is successful across all scandinavian countries. so put that where your mouth is. Besides that you sound ignorant. But you're a American so its not too suprising you would say something stupid and unrelated to a problem solution.
Norway minimises social pathologies related to poverty by offering help to do better in life, especially when people find themselves in trouble or have difficulties. The corrections system is just one puzzle piece of this system. A person that had some problems with the environment he was growing up in, aka problems with his upbringing that resulted in his behaviour that got him/her in trouble with the law are addressed in prison where he is brought back into a normal environment among people that care about him doing better in life. These correction officers become mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers that person might have never had and they help him/her do better. The prisoners still have to put effort into studying and actually strive to achieve goals. The staff and guards play the role of parents and mentors who encourage and help them achieve these goals. Imagine them being the equivalent to a carrying family that has your best interest at heart and helps you to achieve something in life, achieve your goals and believe you can do it. Many people don't have this and cannot afford such help and don't seek it. They develop pathological methods of dealing with pain, repression and learn to survive in a world and society that they believe does not care about them, so they don't care about them also. It is impossible to copy only the Norwegian incarceration system in the US without understanding that it is just one piece of a puzzle that makes everything work.
I had a friend point out something interesting to me that I had never thought of before. Prison - as in the building itself - isn't (and shouldn't be) THE punishment. The punishment is being taken out of society (for their protection as well as to punish you) and not having the freedoms that offers. Being taken away from friends and family so you don't get to see them whenever you like, you can't just pop down to your local store or bar whenever you like etc. Prison is just the location where you stay to enact that separation from society. Therefore there's no reason why the prison itself should further punish you in any way - since it's already doing that job by its very existence and you being there. There's no reason why the conditions inside should be any worse than a regular hotel room and you definitely shouldn't be treated in any negative or inhumane way by the staff since it's not THEM that are supposed to punish you - that's not their job, their job is to look after you but make sure you don't leave. It seems many countries - not just the USA (my own country the UK is also guilty of this) but definitely including them - have got it the wrong way round. They think the building itself and the staff ARE the punishment and therefore the prisons in those countries reflect that in how the prisoners are treated and what the conditions are like inside. Thankfully in some of those countries things are slowly starting to change - and I know here in the UK some of the worst prisons guilty of this view have finally been shut down for good - but there's still a long way to go in convincing people and countries that they're doing the whole prison system wrong.
@@stevegray1308 Scandinavian countries just looks like better societys all round, more inclusive, not totally ruled by cash and 'the next big deal', more time and resources for people of all types, less 'dog eat dog', etc, etc. If everything is better and you have a chance to have part of it for yourself society overall is worth more, if you always the outsider and society more or less works to keep everyone down or 'in their place' then you dont put any real value on behaving and society in general, so even if prison is 'better' if your just going back to the same shit whats to lose?
@@paidwitness797 Scandanavian countries are very little different to other Northern European ones. Put them in a room with Germans/Dutch/Belgians/English and you would struggle to tell them apart (apart from accent). They are certainly not "more inclusive" of other races, the opposite if anything.
In 1865, the United States ratified the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which banned slavery and involuntary servitude "except as punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted", providing a legal basis for slavery, now referred to as penal labor, to continue in the country. Historically, this led to the system of convict leasing which still primarily affects African-Americans. The Prison Policy Initiative, an American criminal justice think tank, cites the 2020 US prison population at being 2.3 million individuals, and nearly all able-bodied inmates work in some fashion. Today, prisoners in most states are paid a nominal wage (in the range of cents per hour) for their work; however, a few states, including Texas, Georgia, and Florida, do not pay prisoners at all, and private companies save millions of dollars each year by contracting prison labor.
It has to be said, that we all could learn a thing or two from the Scandanavians. Not just prisons, but healthcare, and education etc. The general population of all scandanavian countries are extremely content and quite happy. Especially compared to the UK and the US who generally feel a bit 'cheated.' Its true, that if you treat people like animals, they'll behave like animals. And the death penalty isn't a deterrent, as most people that commit those crimes are by and large 'Mentally ill' and could be treated by psychiatry and medication, rather than just put to sleep, like a sick pet. Take the case of Aileen Wurnos, she was clearly metally ill, and needed treatment. But the system didn't care, so she was put to death. The US needs a proper socialist healthcare system like the NHS, so 'Joe bloggs' doesn't need to rob banks just to get enough money to pay for his mums treatment. (smash the system!!)
Prison should never be run for profit, the moment prisons can't use inmates as slave labour or have to pay them minimum wage if they do either to a beneficiary every month or saved for when they are released, then I think it would be easier to integrate similar things in the USA!
For more info on the norwegian system, this is an interesting lecture given to staff at Attica prison th-cam.com/video/pB037gVIpJc/w-d-xo.html Also look up the film/documentary "From Halden to Attica"
What's not mentioned in the video is the work the government did with the population. You cannot treat a prisoner like a human, give them hope, teach them skills and then send them to a population that is hostile to them and doesn't give them a chance. The Norwegian population understands the concept and stands behind this form of correction. Since the US tends to be quite old-testamentarian in the views on punishment and quite self-righteous, I forsee little chance of getting there in the US anytime soon. The US philosophy seems to be "Thank God there is someone more miserable than me, now I feel better".
There are no riots in Norwegian prisons. There`s hardly any violence at all in Norwegian prisons. There used to be in the 80`s, and that`s why they changed the prison system in Norway. If prison staff treat the inmates like shit, the inmates will treat the staff like shit in return, and then you`ll have riots and violence.
Real Rehabilitation need's to be done in all prisons and jails they should not focus on dehumanizing methods and punishment but should focus on rehabilitation
The prison system of Scandinavia is actually american system from the beginning. the founding fathers wrote it. The Eighth Amendment (1791) no cruel and unusual punishments
With regards to your question regarding people who fight the system and are out to cause trouble. All inmates are given the same level of privilages when they arrive but abuse the system and they could lose them. It is a simple choice thats dawns very quickly that they can have a comfortable normal time serving their sentance or it could be very boring and uncomfortable so it tends not to happen. There was some dissent within Norway against the system especialy with regards to Anders Behiring who killed 77 people many teenagers. The film 22 July about the events that day and the following trial is a hard film to watch but one of the best I have ever watched.
I don't think this one is available on TH-cam, but on Netflix. so that in combination with the length of the video might not make it suitable for one of your videos in TH-cam maybe. But if you're interested there is an episode of the serie "the world's toughest prisons" that is devoted to this way if working, and the prison they look at is the same, Halden. There you get far more details of how they work with the prisoners, what happen in different situations, how they prepare them for the future in different ways, reflections from different prisoners etc etc. It's absolutely worth watching. 🙂👍
09:30 As summed up by Will Hay in the film Hey! Hey! USA! "In English prisons they give you four walls, not three walls and a draught." 10:39 Something like that was brought up in a deleted scene from a sci-fi comedy series. "Obviously they don't believe you can rehabilitate criminals by taking them out of society, so they built a sort-of self-contained society..." I won't go further with that quote on the grounds of spoilers.
Been taken away from your family and community is punishment of it self. Totally agree, but It took my friend going to prison for me to truly understand this. It’s not the prison itself that’s the worst for him it’s that he missed his granddad’s funeral the birth and life of his nieces and nephews, his little brother growing up and emigrating. Hell I once saw the sadness in his eyes when I had to explain what I ment when I discussed a new retail development in our city built after he was locked up. One thing that never confused me though was if you treat prisoners like scum (even if some are) why the hell do you expect them to start treating others with respect!
I don't know if you have seen it but there is a very good documentary regarding the death penalty which was on the BBC a few years back with a ex Tory mp called How To Kill a Human Being might be worth a gander.
Australia unfortunately is hell bent on following the US system with our love of privatising everything . Personally although I've never been close to getting put in prison the idea of private prisons enrages me . If I was Tyrant of Australia I wouldn't allow it in fact I'd go further and re nationalise heaps of things probably starting with Qantas before the cost cutting costs lives .
Hey man! First of all, I didn't know we were the same age, cool! Anyways, there has been many clips of Norwegian prisons, about 3 significant ones, and even Michael Moore had Norway's prison on his documentary "where to invade next". But to answer your question in case some inmate gets rowdy, there are underground extraction tunnels where the guards can escort an inmate out, and I know the cynic will say this is some next level Stasi thing to "disappear" people so they can't incite a riot, and yes, but it's also the fact that conflict is disruptive no matter where it comes from or is located, so this is about moving the problem out of sight so that the rest of the prison can be normal. I understand this can be seen from both sides. But yes, Norway's prisons are very open, since we are the same age I don't need to do math and think of the year, but when I was in Jr. High School, we visited the local prison for a social class, and I remember only seeing one guy in uniform, but a few people there around the common area. Turns out, they were in fact prisoners.
I think one of the key things in our prison rehabilitation system is that the prisoners have HOPE of a better life. We have a maximum sentence of 21 years, so the prisoners know they will get out. That prison has never had a riot since it opened. There have been a couple of individuals here and there causing trouble, but no riots. What is not shown in this video is that they also have different education stuff there, like a car workshop (yes, including heavy machinery) and woodworking etc., so the inmates can get an education, and then get a real job when they get out. there is also a small store inside the prison, so the inmates can go shopping
And a 6:30 in, this guy is soon going to say he has his own key to the cell door. And he has, nut look at the door, there are twolocks on it. He does noy have both of the keys. The prison does. ;) It just for keeping other inmates stealing stuff from others.
There are two locks to the cells. One is only able to be unlocked with the guards Key. The other is lockable with the inmates Key. The guards can of course open both locks. So at night the inmates can’t open the door.
I would say, as an Australian who has worked with people in and out of the prison system, our system tries to focus on rehabilitation, however doesn't manage it for a good portion of criminals for one major reason... Institutionalised. If going to prison is the only way you know you will have a roof over your head and 3 square meals in your belly it's easy to why people reoffend. I would love to say we could get to this level of rehabilitation, but we need to get the early stuff right first. Our Centrelink incomes need to be upped, we need 10× the amount of public housing as we already have, we need free education (like we had in the 70s) and we need to "fix" our child protection services. And I say that knowing we have a better foundation than the US. I think only after these fundamentals are fixed can the US really tackle the prison system.
I think it should go by crime, behaviour, trust and cooperation, if you check those marks you can be evaluated and transferred to a rehabilitation prison, which offers educational programs and clears off your felony mark, that's possibly the only way I can see it being broadly introduced in U.S. I am not U.S citizen, so I am not sure if it should be done by state or federal.
Norway does a lot of things right. They are virtually fully renewable energy and sell their excess to us in the UK. They treat the unemployed with respect and give them enough money to afford to live well on. They have good working conditions, benefits, health services and excellent pensions. Quality of life, living standards and life expectancy are also high as a result. A model for the future.
@@markshaw270 When wages and benefits are high it becomes relative. They pay higher taxes and lower rents. If the end results are low poverty, high standard of living, longer life expectancy and quality of life then it seems to work :)
@@markshaw270 Depends how you live I spose,if you gotta do alot off driving petrol gonna be a pain,if you use alot off heating or electric then gonna sting or can't cook with fresh food which drastically drops your food bill if you can cook well and know how too say make up a batch off food rather than one meal n shop around make good use off the staples like rice n potatoes n oats n these things..if you grow a bit off food yourself...do you need a big telly n the fastest Internet and a big subscription package on the sky telly how often do you buy new clothes or what clothes...it can all be rebalanced depending on what your used too..cheers
Basically if you make trouble, you just get removed from the rest of the prison population- so all u got to interact with is guards… the rest is the same
I am married to a Norwegian. In Norway when the prisons are full non dangerous people who are given a custodial sentence are sent back home and recalled when there is a space for them in the system. The only controversy here is that sometimes these people have, by that time, turned their lives around, got married, had a child and have a good job and incarceration can set them back.
I think a part of loving your country is looking for ways to improve things and recognising it's faults, big or small there is always something that can make things better. I know a Norwegian guy who murdered someone in the late 90's (it was gang related), he's a high school teacher today and married with kids.
Just to give you a crazy example an old man who hated being in the old folks home comitted a crime think he broke a store window the owner did not wanna press charges, just to get arrested and he found prison to be way better and he told the judge who wanted to let him go (old man in his 80's) that he would reoffend if he let him go. So he was judged to 14 days in prison ( symbolic punishment over christmas) and the old man who's family did not care about him anymore, actually got gifts from the other inmates which he rarely got anymore from anyone. Tells you something we are good when it comes to prison but man Norway could be better when it comes to taking care of the elderly that part we are not as good at yet.
Staffing shortages in elder care homes in Norway is horrendous. The kids in Norway want to grow up to be the next Idol star, they don't want to work with the elderly. When they visit their parents or grandparents, they just bitch that the nurses don't speak good enough Norwegian.
Just came back to England after spending 10 years in the US last on 30 March. Last fight I had I bit a guy's ear off. Spent 2.5 years in solitary. Am still a compassionate guy, but now I have no compunction about killing someone if they get on my wrong side. Am under the aegis of the police here and awaiting mental health help. Great
Watching this video it seems like they are trying to re-educate the inmates on how to participate in society and maybe teaching some basics like cooking and doing your own laundry that their parents for whatever reason may not have been able to do. Also being in a "normal" society within the prison would create the desire to mimic that situation outside and with family like the gentleman who was talking about his daughter.
The bit i dont get with your system is the three strikes and your out because if your on two strikes you can get imprisoned for dropping litter on the third . If you know your on second strike then go for something that is worth be in prison for on your third strike. How you make you system work from a game that you play is very strange for the rest of the word
A newly trained prison officer in Norway has a salary of about 45,000 US dollars. But living in Norway is also more expensive. But it's starting salary. 😀
One of the worst things in the US is the three strikes then you get life. The first two strikes might be relatively minor and you might be sentenced to 60 days in jail but as the crime sentence carries an up to 6 years therefore it classes as major crime. Under the 3 strike rule it means that if you are convicted of even a minor crime then the result is a mandatory Natural Life sentence and the judge does not have any other choice. There was one case where a man was in a diner and when some people left and drove away but left some doughnuts on the table which the man ate quite happily but someone called the Police and he was charged and convicted. At about 25 years of age he will never leave prison alive. Of course there are quite a few serious criminals who deserve to be locked up but the 3 strikes collects a lot of other people. Just imagine if you are living in a poor ghetto where you use drugs in a minor way and to pay for your habit of 1 deal a day you might buy your 7 hits plus another 7 hits to sell to pay for next weeks supply but when you get busted then instead of getting a $50 fine you will get locked up for life.
665 out of every 100,000 people behind bars in the US is insane. I watched a prison show there once with an 18 year old serving 3 months for vandalism from scratching something into the table at his high school. That boy did what most of us may have at school and they ruined his life. He has a criminal record so will find it harder to get employment and also many people who went to prison for something small and stupid then comes out a worse person who will repeat the cycle over and over. I can’t remember which state it was but it said they’re proud to be so tough on crime (if I had to guess I think it was Texas). I’m all for locking up the worst of society but America is crazy when it comes to that. In the UK it’s 159:100,000 and we have a real issue now because our prisons are almost at capacity. In American many prisons just keep ramming them in at double capacity. How does a petty criminal not come out of prison as a worse person when they’ve been treated like animals. The recidivism rate in Norway is one of (if not the) lowest in the world because they treat people like humans and try to help them better themselves. I think that’s because life sentences don’t exist there and they want people to come out better than they went in.
The key word at roughly 03:30 is less correction but re-examining. The US doesn't like to re-examine. It likes to double down on existing measures if they prove to not work. And double down again. And again. And again. Trickle down doesn't work? Give the rich more money. Still didn't work? We must not have given them enough money then. Give them some more! Never, ever question trickle down, though.
From what I have seen on US reality crime shows and my own conversations with Americans both in an outside of the US there seems to be a strong sense of good and bad as absolutes, such as the common use of the term "evil" to describe criminals. This combined with s clear emphasis on punishment of the offender over rehabilitation as well as the fact that prison labour has become an integral part of the US economy (in a country that bans imports of products associated with prison labour but retains specific allowance of the same in it's constitution (slavery?). With the biggest prisoner population in the world by percentage by far I can see no possibility in the foreseeable future of any change to the lock em up and forget them policy at present in place. Sentencing offenders to terms unthinkable in most other countries one would think that this would lead to a safer society than those softer jurisdictions but sadly the US is considered unsafe for travel for many
Run like a business for Government profits unfortunatly.....exeptional videos from yourself as usual ! thanks love seeing your point of view.and that you love our comedy.
In the last 10 years or so the British Military Prison (nickname the "Glasshouse") adopted a similar approach to this Norwegian prison. The reoffending dropped to 10%. Maybe an idea to also compare with an US military prison. Colchester th-cam.com/video/rESGVLFwoqM/w-d-xo.html
we have part of prison you dont see that they get taken away all the "perks" to put it like that if they dont follow ruels or other prisons thet build up diffrently. But this is what we hope for to get less ppl back in jail. here jail is a cost for guverment so rehabletering is inporten in all ouer prissons
What do you think about the hypothesis that maybe the large amount of working days & hours in a year contribute to making Americans less caring about the reintegration? If people's lives revolved less around their work even by 10% that makes life outside of work a lot bigger and it makes it matter more. I think that would help a lot of people be different. Even when it comes like how they treat their families.
I'll be honest, before I started doing youtube full time I had some different views on work than I do now. But that's also due to the fact that I worked 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week and loved the money that working the extra hours gave. Now I think if peoples lives revolved less around work and trying to work so they can merely survive, much less thrive, you'd see wholesale changes in this country because people would have time to ensure changes were made.
Joe Arpaio who was the elected Sheriff of Maricopa County Arizona. Inmates were put into tent and they wear pink underwear. Only 20% who were released from Maricopa County Prison re-offend. Recently Maricopa County Prison got closed down because of poor human rights record to inmates.
17 sec in. I used to work in four different prisons in Norway, as a techer...for many years. And I have visited Halden, and Bastøy. These are the two Norwegian prisons that appear in most videos on YT. These do not represent most Norwegian prisons. Just saying. ;)
The system itself maybe ok here in Norway. But Halden is NOT a regular Norwegian prison! I have worked in 6 (Ithink), and still am, as a teacher, and have visited Halden and many other prisons, in Norway and abroad. Halden and Bastøy (been there also) is NOT a representaion of the general Norwegian prison.
One thing I will say is that this prison system would require larger changes in the US, particularly better low-income wages. Otherwise, you'd get a whole bunch of folks committing crime so they can go and live the cushy prison life.
I fully support the idea of rehabilitation as many people imprisoned for non-violent crimes are not bad individuals. Many times these people have just taken the wrong path and need to be given both the opportunity and gentle encouragement to see how much better their lives would be if they take the legal route. I would also love to see all drugs decriminalised and those involved with non-violent offenses released as I just don't see why we punish people for something they put in their own bodies. I've never taken an illegal substance myself so please don't think I'm some druggy making this argument. With this said I think it should be noted that the Norwegians are not subject to the sort of gang violence seen in the US, UK and indeed many other areas of the world. Their system has never had to deal with MS13 or anything close to it. These types of gang members are sadistic psychopaths or they are exposed to such horror that they become deadened to it. This is why we cannot make simple cut and paste comparisons of our prison systems.
A very good friend of mine (RIP Dave) once spent Two years in a Norwegian Prison for Drug smuggling offences, he believed it was the best thing that happened to him, gained an IT qualification and learned a Language, generally turned his life around.
That's what prisons should look like. The idea of imprisoning someone in order to punish them in prison is unbelievably short sighted and damaging to society.
@Ricardo Smythe - I completely agree with your sentiment.
There is a difference between justice and revenge
That’s the point of it being called corrections - so that you put them onto a better path to be productive when they go back into society.
@@ricardosmythe2548especially in Norway when nobody gets a life sentence.
As a Scandinavian who have lived and still often work in America I can confirm that most Americans have no clue just how fundamentally broken America has become.
As an American that lives in Norway I knew how broken the US was and is but there was so much I didnt know in my 7 years here. So folks back home has NO idea.
DLord227:
Could you perhaps give a few examples?
I find it fascinating to learn of peoples experiences :)
@@oolillemyoo4099 I had to get an MRI for my knee maybe a year after coming here I had the card by then so I didnt have to pay for it. But I found out if I had it would have cost me about $75.00 . I wanted to pay just to get the recipt so I could show it off but they wouldnt let me.
The thing that shocks people most is that I have to file American income taxes every year even though I dont live in the US anymore.
@@DLord227 - That still baffles me. I struggle to understand that. One of my American colleagues in the UK still files taxes despite living here for 10yrs.
@@bisonkambaine5628 yeah as long as you're an American citizen you have to file a tax return no matter where you live. And get this. As an American you have to declare any money you have over $10000 to the government or be fined upto $10000
Norwegian here, thank you for your reaction. As to your question, after this new system was put in place in the late 1990s there hasn't been a single prison revolt, nor has there been - to the best of my knowledge - any escape from prisons. The closest to that has been a few inmates that were out on prison leave who failed to show up when they were supposed to, but that's about it. Also, there is no debate about this system, it's good and not a single politician wants to change it. In many ways, the way we treat our prisoners says a lot about how we are as a people. We cherish equality, equal opportunities, openness throughout society, and taking care of those who need to be cared for.
I have two other videos I want to recommend to you. The first is Michael Moore visiting Norwegian prisons, it's an episode he just put on TH-cam and never aired because he said "The American people would never believe this if I showed it".
th-cam.com/video/0IepJqxRCZY/w-d-xo.html
The second is from a TV series that follows Norwegian Police officers on patrol, and it's very funny, but also shows how Norwegian Police officers handle situations.
th-cam.com/video/J1PNPcnffbk/w-d-xo.html
I hope you enjoy.
Bless your country’s humanity.
An absolute role model for any developed country without a doubt.
It‘s more likely to break into such a prison than out.
I think this prison is quite different to another norwegian prison called Ila landsfengsel, home of Anders B Breivik. Halden is for non violent offenders. They should compare Ila instead of Halden to american prisons. Another prison which would be mind blowing to americans is Ilseng, almost like a boarding school site for drunk drivers and people charged of gross economic misconduct. I gave a friend a lift there once because of his dui sentence and it was minimal security. As an inmate you would be stupid to escape because that will just get you into bigger problems and maybe a different, higher security prison.
I feel like for this kind of system to work, a country has to have other socio-economic problems more or less figured out. It's pretty bad if the inmate would have a better situation and community inside than outside. Those types of correction facilities would mostly work as such if the cause for criminality is personal, but if it's abject misery, it doesn't really address the problem. If after I leave prison I'm faced with needing to do crimes not to die and/or to protect my family, I'll do it again.
@@HenriqueErzinger You hit the nail on the head here. We have built up all the things you listed here and more over many decades. The humane prison alone is good, meaning inmates gets counselling, education, help to find jobs after prison and so on. But we also have a good social security system. No one has to live on the streets here, or go hungry. Building such a system takes time and isn't cheap, but we don't want to have it any other way. I wish you all the best.
Scandinavians are fantastic people, I remember seeing a video of a few police officers from Sweden, I think, that were in new York on the subway and talked a mentally ill guy with a knife down from his irate state. Complete verbal de-escalation and safe resolution for everything
It could all so have something to do with the education lenght and less emphesis on how too empty the magazine in your gun.
I can tell you that in denmark the basic education as a police officer takes 2 years and 4 months. there too you have too add some previous education, before you can be admitted into the School.
I think I heard it's was about 6 months in New York.
@@lasselund1643 6 months is long, the average in the US is less than a barber.
@@autohmae under 6 months. Damm thats not long, maby that is one off the problems, with the amount of police brutality im the U.S.
Beside the amount of training, the instructors have under 6 months too sive out the psychopaths.
@@lasselund1643 The 'less than a barber' is supposedly a US average. It's very much part of the reason why. The other very important reason is: psychological screening of people to know if they are fit to be a police officer. And the whole culture which goes with it. For example look up: "US police training Warrior Mindset." But an other huge issue is: not enough people want to be a police officer. Long hours, dangers, etc. are some of the reasons why.
@Danno inthevanno yes and some policeofficers are just tired of, looking on your stupid face, or having a bad day,, but it most likely wont get you killed.
During the last 10 years 11 persons have been shot and killed by the police in Denmark.
comparing too the U.S. were allmost a 1000 are killed each year.
adjusting for the population size, that makes it round numbers 20 times more likely too be killed by the police in the U.S. then in Denmark.
What's commendable is I'm finally seeing a decent American prepared to look outside of America as not the only country in the world to get information. I've been to the states and it's a fantastic place, but my conversations there were very limited to the American way, and hardly any knowledge outside of that bubble. If only more people could educate themselves on how other countries work (rightly or wrongly) and show more understanding, then I'm convinced the world COULD be a nicer place for the next generation of kids to grow up in. Keep up the good work Mr EB 👍
Yes, works both ways. I used to tell people I was Canadian because people would get angry at me because of something on the news. I would get cornered at bbqs or parties and people would want to talk about US policy or politics. I was 19 and hadn't even voted yet and fresh off a plane in New Zealand. Now, I live in Norway. I just tell people I moved here from New Zealand. (never should have left New Zealand)
@@TheAccidentalViking It didn't used to be that way. I lived in Norway in the 80s and during that time period most Norwegians envied Americans and liked them a lot. I was a Canadian but Norwegians can' tell the difference between a Canadian and an American. There was a U.S. exchange student that visited my Norwegian friend's town of Sandefjord and he was beloved even though he couldn't speak a lick of Norwegian and made no attempt to learn the language (ah how American).
By the way New Zealand is an awesome place.
I would highly recommend to watch two other clips around the same theme:
1. Michael Moore - Norwegian Prison. He got some surprises, to say it mildly.
2. Prison Project: Little Scandinavia. U.S. prison guards visit Norway and try a similar project in USA.
This☝
This, is it the one where the US prisoners gets to draw their "ideal" prison, and the Norwegian just adds some walls and says, "Thats Halden prison" and I think the US prison added some cameras and both the guards and inmates suddenly felt more at ease and less hostile?
No, that's breaking the cycle. I tried to find it on TH-cam, but it seems to be gone. I found a clip though... m.th-cam.com/video/haHeDgbfLtw/w-d-xo.html
I live 25 minutes from Halden prison.
A few years ago there was a story on the news that a few prisoners had been tiding up in the kitchen or something in the evening, and the new guard shift thought they already were in their cells and locked the cell block. They spent the entire night in the kitchen, wich had not been locked, watching TV and baking chocolate cake.
I remember that news. loved it! 🙂
I heard another story where a woman in Oslo had an intruder in her home. Had a knife and was trying to rob her. She sat the would-be robber down and fed him something and talked with him and listened to his story about how he became a junkie while they both waited for the police to arrive.
The big difference after a prison stay is that you have a number of rights in Norway. Before you leave, you get a private rental agreement for housing and get costs and rent covered. If you do not have furniture, a washing machine, you will receive a sum of money that covers such. In addition, you get money for electricity and about $ 800 per. mnd. for food. So you MUST apply for jobs, go to courses or schools to get this - until you are self-sufficient.
I think one of the basic problem with prisons in America is that it´s people don´t know the difference between justice and revenge.
The fact that this is a high security prison - murderers etc, is really stunning. The prisoners themselves make sure other prisoners behave - they don't want privileges revoked.
Crimes has a maximum sentence of 21 years in Norway, but at 14 years you can start getting parole which most people will get. After the 21 years you are accessed and can be sentenced with 5 year increment extensions for your sentence.
Basically all murderers and rapists will be released after 14 years, it is only if the crime was really grim that you will have a longer sentence. If you are deemed mentally ill, like a psychopath or psychotic then you will be sentenced for treatment until you are stable for society.
This means that you are expected to re-enter society no matter who you are or what you did, so you will go through rehabilitation. It is probably the largest shift in how things are done. Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Estonia, UK and more countries in europe do not have a genuine life sentence with the maximum sentence ranging between 14 and 25 years, and the death sentence is abolished in all of Europe.
Sexual offenders are not shunned for life where you want to cut off their genitials or something, and child molesters are banned from working with children but are otherwise treated normally. There are not this sentiment that you can avenge a child
@@YekouriGaming so maybe the US should change to a system that gives demonstrably better results.
@@stevegray1308 i doubt that, since the culture in the US is very different
@@neogeo1670 culture may be different but not being willing to try new things is both childish and ridiculous. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
@@stevegray1308 sure, but the society in my homeland compared to the US is so drastically different, a whole other mentality.. if it's gonna happen in the US (that's never gonna happen) at least not to that degree... There has to be a quite homogeneous society that most people are on the same page witch the US is not
The department that is responsible for this is called «kriminalomsorgen» which directly translates to “criminal care” And that itself shows how we view the prisoners😊
The female guard who plays cards etc with inmates probably achieves more towards depressurising tensions and possible outbreaks of violence than ANY amount of 23hr lockdowns, privelege revocation etc.
It probably WON'T work in all circumstances, but it seems to me that US prisons seem designed to constantly ramp up the anger, frustration and tension. Inmates are going to blow off steam against each other AND the guards, so everyone suffers.
Why not at least try this system in the US? If it fails, you can smugly say 'I told you so', but it is SO obvious that the other way has been thoroughly tested, and has failed. Repeating it and expecting a different result is just stupid.
Wouldn't work in the US she'd end up getting assaulted. The US is a FAR more violent country than the scandavian countries. Also you don't have the rampant gang culture in those countries.
This way is not only to reintegrate, but it's also a preventiv against violence in the prison. We had no riots, in this maximum prison, with knives readily available, inmates are not afraid of being stabbed in the back by another inmate. With keeping it somewhat normal and focus on reducing tension and outlet for energy both physical and mental and creativity, inmates doesn't have all that build up anger, tension and frustration that leads to violence. Does this cost money? Yes of course, but you get it back with a very low redivision right and so both less crimes against other citizens and no need to spend money on keeping them in prison at a later date. It's and increase cost NOW, but you need less money for the prison system in the long run.
And don't forget that the guards take part of the life inside the prison with them to the outside.
I've seen a lot of Americans react to similar videos, and one thing that always tends to come up is that they almost always say the prison cells in Norway look like dorm rooms or some sort of school-based campus housing.
And I honestly don't know if that says more about American schools or Norwegian prisons.
The US has a private prison system..I live in Norway. And I feel pretty sure that politicians in the United States receive money to maintain such a system. Health care and prisons should be run by the public sector. 😀 But that's my view.
Lobbying is the U.S's biggest problem and it is the problem American people discuss the least. No point in discussing health care or prison reform till you solve lobbying.
Isn’t it awesome how we can look outside of our methods and find better ways to do things? I like your willingness to learn from the world. Love from Australia
They realised something was wrong, investigated, and tried something new to correct it.
You might be interested in looking up information about the Little Scandinavia project in Pennsylvania. They had CO's work for 3 weeks in Norwegian prisons for the purpose of getting inspiration to restructure a part of their prison. It is part of a documentary that is not finished but there is an extended trailer here th-cam.com/video/gTC1KI0STIY/w-d-xo.html - It might give you a bit of hope for the future of corrections in the US and maybe get ready to wipe away a tear or two.
A sad thing for me, is to see how much, so many Americans talk about the 2'nd amendment to their constitution and not so much about the 8'th amendment.
Amendment VIII (1791): Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
I noticed a Norwegian warden mention that here: th-cam.com/video/0IepJqxRCZY/w-d-xo.html
you can love your country and still want to make it better mate. you should check out "Trond Blattman on His Son's Death in the 2011 Utøya Attacks" to see some more of the cultural difference between the two places.
Really enjoyed your reaction and what you had to say, you seem like a good-hearted person. Much love from Finland!
As long as prisons are private companies there is no incentive for prison operators to work toward rehabilitation and low redivism
One of my former coworkers was a librarian at Halden. Older lady, recently retired. She didn't have any horror stories to share, despite often being alone with these prisoners in the library. She didn't need to be scared. I think that says a lot about how effective this place has been.
When you realise that your country is barbaric and not as "freedom" filled as you are told.
One of My oldest Friends lives in Oslo, and the kicker, punchline as far as I'm concerned is His Wife, Norwegian, and Their Friends and Family, Norwegian, still see room for improvement.
If you debase, degrade and dehumanise a prisoner don't be surprised that they have problems when released back into society.
In UK lots of prisoners have had a poor education and/or a drug problem. There is no effort for rehabilitation due to budget cuts.
The US system is about making money: private prison, cheap labour and companies selling authorised goods & clothes to the prisoners. Unless the guilty are given max sentences the powers that be & the public don't think "justice" has been done.
I have seen similar videos before. In Michael Moore's Sicko he visited a prison in Norway. This is an enlightened way to treat criminals and seems to get good results.
In a privatised , profit making prison system the criminal is the shareholders natural harvest , the last thing they want is less criminals.
For me it looks normal 😊 I guess because I am Norwegian. We have a completly different mindset.
The United States thinks of themselves as exceptional. That in itself is an isolitionist mentality. People don't see that. And they don't care.
I'm heading over to Norway for the first time in a couple of weeks. It's always been a country i've long wanted to visit for a variety of reasons. It tops a lot of lists for being a great country in which to live, can't wait to experience it for myself.
Velkommen! I moved here for love about 20 years ago.
As I've thought about before on this subject and myself being a norwegian.
If you treat persons as animals in society and in prison they will adapt and learn to live in that reality. Their identity is shaped by how we treat them.
This leads towards people with a mentality that has been broken down over time and their adaption is thus survival by crime and violence as they learned that in prison over many years.
Here we have a system that shows them what behavior does for them and thus hoe they can better their life and others by living a good life.
Ofc ours people affected by the person wants revenge, or punishment. But the freedom taken away in prison is in itself a punishment as you are separated from society and your freedom of movement. But correction will make these people integrate in society and not reoffend affecting more people and thus costing the society less.
The college education for the prison guards (and everybody else) s free: no tuition fees.
The cost of living and the books and materials are the expenses you take out a student loan for.
In many prisons in the UK the inmates have their own key so they can lock their cells when not in them which avoids theft of property. However it should be pointed out that the cells also have a master lock that the prison officers can use to lock the door at night time or at times when the inmates have to be locked up.
An important thing to be aware of is that for the prisoner the prison staff is perhaps their first encounter with humanity at its best behavior. The prison is in a way our opportunity to catch you when you fall, since you might do silly and wrong things on your way down.
On the keys to their cells thing, they are still locked in overnight and id presume at certain times of the day. They cant open their doors ejenever they feel like it. Its more about locking their own cells while they're out at work etc and know that no prisoners are gonna go in and steal stuff
This is a very good system for non-violent prisoners imo and emphasises rehabilitation and trust rather than punishment which leads to institutionalism.
I think the main difference in cultures between Norway and the US , though is that Norway gives people a stake in society which gives them something to lose.
Giving someone a job and security gives someone less reason to commit crimes.
In the US and other less progressive countries if you have nothing to start with then you have little to lose.
I bet Norway does not have as many fatherless homes per capita as we have in America and the idea that that does not make a difference is foolish thinking
@@Alien300Blackout We probably have more. We don't need men to have babies or raise children here in Norway.
@@Alien300Blackout Fatherless upbringing has nothing to do with correction later in life. It is successful across all scandinavian countries. so put that where your mouth is.
Besides that you sound ignorant. But you're a American so its not too suprising you would say something stupid and unrelated to a problem solution.
Norway minimises social pathologies related to poverty by offering help to do better in life, especially when people find themselves in trouble or have difficulties. The corrections system is just one puzzle piece of this system. A person that had some problems with the environment he was growing up in, aka problems with his upbringing that resulted in his behaviour that got him/her in trouble with the law are addressed in prison where he is brought back into a normal environment among people that care about him doing better in life. These correction officers become mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers that person might have never had and they help him/her do better.
The prisoners still have to put effort into studying and actually strive to achieve goals. The staff and guards play the role of parents and mentors who encourage and help them achieve these goals.
Imagine them being the equivalent to a carrying family that has your best interest at heart and helps you to achieve something in life, achieve your goals and believe you can do it. Many people don't have this and cannot afford such help and don't seek it. They develop pathological methods of dealing with pain, repression and learn to survive in a world and society that they believe does not care about them, so they don't care about them also.
It is impossible to copy only the Norwegian incarceration system in the US without understanding that it is just one piece of a puzzle that makes everything work.
I had a friend point out something interesting to me that I had never thought of before. Prison - as in the building itself - isn't (and shouldn't be) THE punishment. The punishment is being taken out of society (for their protection as well as to punish you) and not having the freedoms that offers. Being taken away from friends and family so you don't get to see them whenever you like, you can't just pop down to your local store or bar whenever you like etc. Prison is just the location where you stay to enact that separation from society. Therefore there's no reason why the prison itself should further punish you in any way - since it's already doing that job by its very existence and you being there. There's no reason why the conditions inside should be any worse than a regular hotel room and you definitely shouldn't be treated in any negative or inhumane way by the staff since it's not THEM that are supposed to punish you - that's not their job, their job is to look after you but make sure you don't leave.
It seems many countries - not just the USA (my own country the UK is also guilty of this) but definitely including them - have got it the wrong way round. They think the building itself and the staff ARE the punishment and therefore the prisons in those countries reflect that in how the prisoners are treated and what the conditions are like inside. Thankfully in some of those countries things are slowly starting to change - and I know here in the UK some of the worst prisons guilty of this view have finally been shut down for good - but there's still a long way to go in convincing people and countries that they're doing the whole prison system wrong.
The real difference between for profit and not. Love your videos as always!
We see this in the UK but refuse to learn from this, we refuse to spend anything to improve the system.
What are your thoughts on the Fishmongers Hall attack?
Saskia Jones, Keith Merrit, Steven Gallant, Usman Khan.
This system wouldn't work outside the culture of the Scandinavian countries.
Why? Who has tried anything like it? Do you think Scandinavians criminals are a different breed?
@@stevegray1308 Scandinavian countries just looks like better societys all round, more inclusive, not totally ruled by cash and 'the next big deal', more time and resources for people of all types, less 'dog eat dog', etc, etc. If everything is better and you have a chance to have part of it for yourself society overall is worth more, if you always the outsider and society more or less works to keep everyone down or 'in their place' then you dont put any real value on behaving and society in general, so even if prison is 'better' if your just going back to the same shit whats to lose?
@@paidwitness797 Scandanavian countries are very little different to other Northern European ones. Put them in a room with Germans/Dutch/Belgians/English and you would struggle to tell them apart (apart from accent). They are certainly not "more inclusive" of other races, the opposite if anything.
In 1865, the United States ratified the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which banned slavery and involuntary servitude "except as punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted", providing a legal basis for slavery, now referred to as penal labor, to continue in the country.
Historically, this led to the system of convict leasing which still primarily affects African-Americans.
The Prison Policy Initiative, an American criminal justice think tank, cites the 2020 US prison population at being 2.3 million individuals, and nearly all able-bodied inmates work in some fashion.
Today, prisoners in most states are paid a nominal wage (in the range of cents per hour) for their work; however, a few states, including Texas, Georgia, and Florida, do not pay prisoners at all, and private companies save millions of dollars each year by contracting prison labor.
It has to be said, that we all could learn a thing or two from the Scandanavians. Not just prisons, but healthcare, and education etc. The general population of all scandanavian countries are extremely content and quite happy. Especially compared to the UK and the US who generally feel a bit 'cheated.'
Its true, that if you treat people like animals, they'll behave like animals. And the death penalty isn't a deterrent, as most people that commit those crimes are by and large 'Mentally ill' and could be treated by psychiatry and medication, rather than just put to sleep, like a sick pet. Take the case of Aileen Wurnos, she was clearly metally ill, and needed treatment. But the system didn't care, so she was put to death. The US needs a proper socialist healthcare system like the NHS, so 'Joe bloggs' doesn't need to rob banks just to get enough money to pay for his mums treatment. (smash the system!!)
at least 4% of the people who are killed by the death penalty turned out to be innocent, in my opinion it shouldn't exist.
Theres also a really good ted talk about german prisons, would love to see a reaction.
This video always almost makes me cry.
The American visitors seem clueless. After all, prisons in America, like hospitals, are first and foremost, businesses and money-making exercises.
Prison should never be run for profit, the moment prisons can't use inmates as slave labour or have to pay them minimum wage if they do either to a beneficiary every month or saved for when they are released, then I think it would be easier to integrate similar things in the USA!
When he said they want to create people who are good neighbors, I just thought about Mr. Rogers.
Won't you be my neighbor 😂😂😂
For more info on the norwegian system, this is an interesting lecture given to staff at Attica prison
th-cam.com/video/pB037gVIpJc/w-d-xo.html
Also look up the film/documentary "From Halden to Attica"
looks like human dignity is restored and rehab is easier
What's not mentioned in the video is the work the government did with the population. You cannot treat a prisoner like a human, give them hope, teach them skills and then send them to a population that is hostile to them and doesn't give them a chance. The Norwegian population understands the concept and stands behind this form of correction. Since the US tends to be quite old-testamentarian in the views on punishment and quite self-righteous, I forsee little chance of getting there in the US anytime soon. The US philosophy seems to be "Thank God there is someone more miserable than me, now I feel better".
You should react to the full video/mini-doc - this is like a recap :) (will try to find it and link it)
There are no riots in Norwegian prisons. There`s hardly any violence at all in Norwegian prisons. There used to be in the 80`s, and that`s why they changed the prison system in Norway. If prison staff treat the inmates like shit, the inmates will treat the staff like shit in return, and then you`ll have riots and violence.
Real Rehabilitation need's to be done in all prisons and jails they should not focus on dehumanizing methods and punishment but should focus on rehabilitation
The prison system of Scandinavia is actually american system from the beginning. the founding fathers wrote it.
The Eighth Amendment (1791) no cruel and unusual punishments
Shame that the 13th turned all that around.
With regards to your question regarding people who fight the system and are out to cause trouble. All inmates are given the same level of privilages when they arrive but abuse the system and they could lose them. It is a simple choice thats dawns very quickly that they can have a comfortable normal time serving their sentance or it could be very boring and uncomfortable so it tends not to happen. There was some dissent within Norway against the system especialy with regards to Anders Behiring who killed 77 people many teenagers. The film 22 July about the events that day and the following trial is a hard film to watch but one of the best I have ever watched.
I don't think this one is available on TH-cam, but on Netflix. so that in combination with the length of the video might not make it suitable for one of your videos in TH-cam maybe. But if you're interested there is an episode of the serie "the world's toughest prisons" that is devoted to this way if working, and the prison they look at is the same, Halden. There you get far more details of how they work with the prisoners, what happen in different situations, how they prepare them for the future in different ways, reflections from different prisoners etc etc. It's absolutely worth watching. 🙂👍
I refer you to the Stanford Prison Experiment
09:30 As summed up by Will Hay in the film Hey! Hey! USA! "In English prisons they give you four walls, not three walls and a draught."
10:39 Something like that was brought up in a deleted scene from a sci-fi comedy series. "Obviously they don't believe you can rehabilitate criminals by taking them out of society, so they built a sort-of self-contained society..." I won't go further with that quote on the grounds of spoilers.
Been taken away from your family and community is punishment of it self. Totally agree, but It took my friend going to prison for me to truly understand this. It’s not the prison itself that’s the worst for him it’s that he missed his granddad’s funeral the birth and life of his nieces and nephews, his little brother growing up and emigrating. Hell I once saw the sadness in his eyes when I had to explain what I ment when I discussed a new retail development in our city built after he was locked up. One thing that never confused me though was if you treat prisoners like scum (even if some are) why the hell do you expect them to start treating others with respect!
I don't know if you have seen it but there is a very good documentary regarding the death penalty which was on the BBC a few years back with a ex Tory mp called How To Kill a Human Being might be worth a gander.
Australia unfortunately is hell bent on following the US system with our love of privatising everything . Personally although I've never been close to getting put in prison the idea of private prisons enrages me . If I was Tyrant of Australia I wouldn't allow it in fact I'd go further and re nationalise heaps of things probably starting with Qantas before the cost cutting costs lives .
I think the US and other countries would benefit from a prison system like Norway’s. 👍
Hey man! First of all, I didn't know we were the same age, cool!
Anyways, there has been many clips of Norwegian prisons, about 3 significant ones, and even Michael Moore had Norway's prison on his documentary "where to invade next".
But to answer your question in case some inmate gets rowdy, there are underground extraction tunnels where the guards can escort an inmate out, and I know the cynic will say this is some next level Stasi thing to "disappear" people so they can't incite a riot, and yes, but it's also the fact that conflict is disruptive no matter where it comes from or is located, so this is about moving the problem out of sight so that the rest of the prison can be normal. I understand this can be seen from both sides.
But yes, Norway's prisons are very open, since we are the same age I don't need to do math and think of the year, but when I was in Jr. High School, we visited the local prison for a social class, and I remember only seeing one guy in uniform, but a few people there around the common area. Turns out, they were in fact prisoners.
I think one of the key things in our prison rehabilitation system is that the prisoners have HOPE of a better life. We have a maximum sentence of 21 years, so the prisoners know they will get out. That prison has never had a riot since it opened. There have been a couple of individuals here and there causing trouble, but no riots. What is not shown in this video is that they also have different education stuff there, like a car workshop (yes, including heavy machinery) and woodworking etc., so the inmates can get an education, and then get a real job when they get out. there is also a small store inside the prison, so the inmates can go shopping
Great video, it would be cool to see you react to The Norwegian King's Speech : Norway is one
And it's so much safer to work for the guards.
And a 6:30 in, this guy is soon going to say he has his own key to the cell door. And he has, nut look at the door, there are twolocks on it. He does noy have both of the keys. The prison does. ;)
It just for keeping other inmates stealing stuff from others.
There are two locks to the cells. One is only able to be unlocked with the guards Key. The other is lockable with the inmates Key. The guards can of course open both locks. So at night the inmates can’t open the door.
I would say, as an Australian who has worked with people in and out of the prison system, our system tries to focus on rehabilitation, however doesn't manage it for a good portion of criminals for one major reason...
Institutionalised. If going to prison is the only way you know you will have a roof over your head and 3 square meals in your belly it's easy to why people reoffend.
I would love to say we could get to this level of rehabilitation, but we need to get the early stuff right first.
Our Centrelink incomes need to be upped, we need 10× the amount of public housing as we already have, we need free education (like we had in the 70s) and we need to "fix" our child protection services.
And I say that knowing we have a better foundation than the US. I think only after these fundamentals are fixed can the US really tackle the prison system.
I think it should go by crime, behaviour, trust and cooperation, if you check those marks you can be evaluated and transferred to a rehabilitation prison,
which offers educational programs and clears off your felony mark, that's possibly the only way I can see it being broadly introduced in U.S.
I am not U.S citizen, so I am not sure if it should be done by state or federal.
Norway does a lot of things right. They are virtually fully renewable energy and sell their excess to us in the UK. They treat the unemployed with respect and give them enough money to afford to live well on. They have good working conditions, benefits, health services and excellent pensions. Quality of life, living standards and life expectancy are also high as a result. A model for the future.
Cost of living is high to I hear.
@@markshaw270 When wages and benefits are high it becomes relative. They pay higher taxes and lower rents. If the end results are low poverty, high standard of living, longer life expectancy and quality of life then it seems to work :)
@@markshaw270 Depends how you live I spose,if you gotta do alot off driving petrol gonna be a pain,if you use alot off heating or electric then gonna sting or can't cook with fresh food which drastically drops your food bill if you can cook well and know how too say make up a batch off food rather than one meal n shop around make good use off the staples like rice n potatoes n oats n these things..if you grow a bit off food yourself...do you need a big telly n the fastest Internet and a big subscription package on the sky telly how often do you buy new clothes or what clothes...it can all be rebalanced depending on what your used too..cheers
@@jshaw4757 yh I agree, I like Norway seems like a decent country.
@Steve Parker - They have the Largest Sovereign Wealth Fund on Earth as well, not bad.🙏
Basically if you make trouble, you just get removed from the rest of the prison population- so all u got to interact with is guards… the rest is the same
I am married to a Norwegian. In Norway when the prisons are full non dangerous people who are given a custodial sentence are sent back home and recalled when there is a space for them in the system. The only controversy here is that sometimes these people have, by that time, turned their lives around, got married, had a child and have a good job and incarceration can set them back.
there is a video of an english politician going to the same prison and interacting with the prisoners, i recommend you watch that video too
I think a part of loving your country is looking for ways to improve things and recognising it's faults, big or small there is always something that can make things better.
I know a Norwegian guy who murdered someone in the late 90's (it was gang related), he's a high school teacher today and married with kids.
Norway should be proud of its prison system as well as other factors that make Norwegian people special in many ways.
Just to give you a crazy example an old man who hated being in the old folks home comitted a crime think he broke a store window the owner did not wanna press charges, just to get arrested and he found prison to be way better and he told the judge who wanted to let him go (old man in his 80's) that he would reoffend if he let him go.
So he was judged to 14 days in prison ( symbolic punishment over christmas) and the old man who's family did not care about him anymore, actually got gifts from the other inmates which he rarely got anymore from anyone.
Tells you something we are good when it comes to prison but man Norway could be better when it comes to taking care of the elderly that part we are not as good at yet.
Staffing shortages in elder care homes in Norway is horrendous. The kids in Norway want to grow up to be the next Idol star, they don't want to work with the elderly. When they visit their parents or grandparents, they just bitch that the nurses don't speak good enough Norwegian.
In US i think first step would be starting to close all the private prisons.
Just came back to England after spending 10 years in the US last on 30 March. Last fight I had I bit a guy's ear off.
Spent 2.5 years in solitary.
Am still a compassionate guy, but now I have no compunction about killing someone if they get on my wrong side.
Am under the aegis of the police here and awaiting mental health help.
Great
Watching this video it seems like they are trying to re-educate the inmates on how to participate in society and maybe teaching some basics like cooking and doing your own laundry that their parents for whatever reason may not have been able to do. Also being in a "normal" society within the prison would create the desire to mimic that situation outside and with family like the gentleman who was talking about his daughter.
The bit i dont get with your system is the three strikes and your out because if your on two strikes you can get imprisoned for dropping litter on the third . If you know your on second strike then go for something that is worth be in prison for on your third strike. How you make you system work from a game that you play is very strange for the rest of the word
Well done Norway for seeing that a system wasn't working, and deciding to make a proper change to the system and sticking with it.
A newly trained prison officer in Norway has a salary of about 45,000 US dollars. But living in Norway is also more expensive. But it's starting salary. 😀
One of the worst things in the US is the three strikes then you get life. The first two strikes might be relatively minor and you might be sentenced to 60 days in jail but as the crime sentence carries an up to 6 years therefore it classes as major crime. Under the 3 strike rule it means that if you are convicted of even a minor crime then the result is a mandatory Natural Life sentence and the judge does not have any other choice. There was one case where a man was in a diner and when some people left and drove away but left some doughnuts on the table which the man ate quite happily but someone called the Police and he was charged and convicted. At about 25 years of age he will never leave prison alive. Of course there are quite a few serious criminals who deserve to be locked up but the 3 strikes collects a lot of other people. Just imagine if you are living in a poor ghetto where you use drugs in a minor way and to pay for your habit of 1 deal a day you might buy your 7 hits plus another 7 hits to sell to pay for next weeks supply but when you get busted then instead of getting a $50 fine you will get locked up for life.
665 out of every 100,000 people behind bars in the US is insane. I watched a prison show there once with an 18 year old serving 3 months for vandalism from scratching something into the table at his high school. That boy did what most of us may have at school and they ruined his life. He has a criminal record so will find it harder to get employment and also many people who went to prison for something small and stupid then comes out a worse person who will repeat the cycle over and over. I can’t remember which state it was but it said they’re proud to be so tough on crime (if I had to guess I think it was Texas). I’m all for locking up the worst of society but America is crazy when it comes to that. In the UK it’s 159:100,000 and we have a real issue now because our prisons are almost at capacity. In American many prisons just keep ramming them in at double capacity. How does a petty criminal not come out of prison as a worse person when they’ve been treated like animals. The recidivism rate in Norway is one of (if not the) lowest in the world because they treat people like humans and try to help them better themselves. I think that’s because life sentences don’t exist there and they want people to come out better than they went in.
They place great emphasis on rehabilitation into society,not on punitive measures
The key word at roughly 03:30 is less correction but re-examining. The US doesn't like to re-examine. It likes to double down on existing measures if they prove to not work. And double down again. And again. And again. Trickle down doesn't work? Give the rich more money. Still didn't work? We must not have given them enough money then. Give them some more! Never, ever question trickle down, though.
From what I have seen on US reality crime shows and my own conversations with Americans both in an outside of the US there seems to be a strong sense of good and bad as absolutes, such as the common use of the term "evil" to describe criminals. This combined with s clear emphasis on punishment of the offender over rehabilitation as well as the fact that prison labour has become an integral part of the US economy (in a country that bans imports of products associated with prison labour but retains specific allowance of the same in it's constitution (slavery?). With the biggest prisoner population in the world by percentage by far I can see no possibility in the foreseeable future of any change to the lock em up and forget them policy at present in place.
Sentencing offenders to terms unthinkable in most other countries one would think that this would lead to a safer society than those softer jurisdictions but sadly the US is considered unsafe for travel for many
Run like a business for Government profits unfortunatly.....exeptional videos from yourself as usual ! thanks love seeing your point of view.and that you love our comedy.
And inmates who cannot behave are put in isolation .. Or sometimes transferred to mental health care.
It may be my phone, yet I'm at full volume and can hardly hear you.
In the last 10 years or so the British Military Prison (nickname the "Glasshouse") adopted a similar approach to this Norwegian prison. The reoffending dropped to 10%.
Maybe an idea to also compare with an US military prison.
Colchester
th-cam.com/video/rESGVLFwoqM/w-d-xo.html
the airbnb of prisons, hell I'd vacation there 😅
You need to watch Michael Moore "where should we invade next"
we have part of prison you dont see that they get taken away all the "perks" to put it like that if they dont follow ruels or other prisons thet build up diffrently. But this is what we hope for to get less ppl back in jail. here jail is a cost for guverment so rehabletering is inporten in all ouer prissons
What do you think about the hypothesis that maybe the large amount of working days & hours in a year contribute to making Americans less caring about the reintegration?
If people's lives revolved less around their work even by 10% that makes life outside of work a lot bigger and it makes it matter more.
I think that would help a lot of people be different. Even when it comes like how they treat their families.
I'll be honest, before I started doing youtube full time I had some different views on work than I do now. But that's also due to the fact that I worked 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week and loved the money that working the extra hours gave. Now I think if peoples lives revolved less around work and trying to work so they can merely survive, much less thrive, you'd see wholesale changes in this country because people would have time to ensure changes were made.
Joe Arpaio who was the elected Sheriff of Maricopa County Arizona. Inmates were put into tent and they wear pink underwear. Only 20% who were released from Maricopa County Prison re-offend. Recently Maricopa County Prison got closed down because of poor human rights record to inmates.
17 sec in. I used to work in four different prisons in Norway, as a techer...for many years. And I have visited Halden, and Bastøy. These are the two Norwegian prisons that appear in most videos on YT. These do not represent most Norwegian prisons. Just saying. ;)
The system itself maybe ok here in Norway. But Halden is NOT a regular Norwegian prison! I have worked in 6 (Ithink), and still am, as a teacher, and have visited Halden and many other prisons, in Norway and abroad. Halden and Bastøy (been there also) is NOT a representaion of the general Norwegian prison.
One thing I will say is that this prison system would require larger changes in the US, particularly better low-income wages. Otherwise, you'd get a whole bunch of folks committing crime so they can go and live the cushy prison life.
React to. the norwegian king's speech : Norway is one
🙏🙏👍😁👍🇳🇴
bravo. Happy to hear from an American citizen. For an outsider the system appears barbaric, not least the death penalty.
I fully support the idea of rehabilitation as many people imprisoned for non-violent crimes are not bad individuals. Many times these people have just taken the wrong path and need to be given both the opportunity and gentle encouragement to see how much better their lives would be if they take the legal route. I would also love to see all drugs decriminalised and those involved with non-violent offenses released as I just don't see why we punish people for something they put in their own bodies. I've never taken an illegal substance myself so please don't think I'm some druggy making this argument.
With this said I think it should be noted that the Norwegians are not subject to the sort of gang violence seen in the US, UK and indeed many other areas of the world. Their system has never had to deal with MS13 or anything close to it. These types of gang members are sadistic psychopaths or they are exposed to such horror that they become deadened to it. This is why we cannot make simple cut and paste comparisons of our prison systems.
love the tints Mr B