Your mix sounded better trust your instincts, I think you have it backwards the Shakes should use your track for a reference. Mixing is subjective, I do believe in using reference tracks but I also believe in inovation, mixing is like painting it is a true art form ,it is good to get a general idea of what other engineers are doing but it doesn't mean just because nobody is doing what you are doing it must mean you are doing it wrong, especially if your ears are trained, it could mean that you are inovating.....trust your instincts
I agree, I like yours far better. I actually thought the first thing you played was the Shakes (I'm not familiar with their stuff) and I was blown away by the mix. The Shakes in contrast sounds sorta brittle/harsh to me. I don't mean any hate to them or Shawn, they all seem really cool for sure. But I'm just really sensitive about the tone of the high-end. Your mix has more of that "classic sound" (for lack of a better term) of the '70s record I grew up on, but not in a way where it sounds like a rehash, sounds fresh.
I found your channel some weeks ago and I am amazed. Different and fresh content. You earned a new subscriber. On the topic. I am developing my reference track workflow. Sometimes it does work to match with a specific song, sometimes I just need to refresh my ears and others I just try to copy the vibe or fell of a specific element or band. It is hard! But I have to admit that this technique can safe a lot of time and guessing. I loved the quote of level match to train your ears. Best wishes from Spain and looking forward for the mixing event! Take care and stay safe!
In reaper you can send a track direct to a sound device output, so you can use your master bus as you would normally. That eliminates the need for a pre-master track.
I’ve recently attempted the same exercise and while I learned a lot about differences between my mixes and others, the thing is that you have to remember: Differences are good! I found myself questioning my instincts. Generally that’s a good thing - but when you’re actually on a job, you don’t want to be using someone else’s instinct about a different performance to dictate what you do in your mix. I suppose that’s a disconnect you have to learn to exercise. Thanks - some great practical tips here, as always.
I am a HUGE Shawn Everett fan, his mixes are some of the most creative mixes out there. He doesn't strive for high fidelity as much as super creative techniques that sound really cool. I also very much enjoy your work and channel Ryan. If you get a chance check out some of his tutorials they are insane! He uses headphones as drum mics :)
wow, i’ve known this technique from glenn’s video, but it’s rather comprehensive seeing you running this technique. because people would react differently with their own flow of working. kudos ryan.
Man! Great video and very well delivered. You have a gift and it's a joy to watch you work, brother! Thanks for sharing the event! Pumped to see you all there.
Oof man... The number one thing I've learned when trying to mix with references is that before you can actually compare mixes, you have to make sure that the arrangements are somewhat compatible. I personally couldn't really make any judgements with most of the spots you chose to compare. For Instance, you used a part of the reference track to focus in on the low end where the bass guitar literally dropped out for a couple beats, same with guitar (mostly vocal in the ref), and what little guitar could be heard was playing in an entirely different register too. You are definitely a far superior mixing engineer to myself, so I'm not gonna pretend that I know any better, but I really have trouble imagining what information you were able to gain from comparing those specific sections. Maybe you can enlighten me! :) Anyway, is there a reason you are using ProQ instead of the filter section within ADAPTR?
Yeah so the on board eq seems to cut the volume a lot. It’s almost like it’s super gentle. For the reference, her voice is the same octave as his a lot of times in the track. I couldn’t hear lay it too long without getting flagged by TH-cam. Also, density and speed. I didn’t have rhythm guitars but it it has organ and it’s a retro sound in 6/8. Speed is good to match for the low end. Faster = less low end in the deep subs.
Thanks for this! I would love to see "shakes" and "my mix" text each time you switch. I was focusing on the EQ sometimes when you were switching back and forth quickly. Your mix sounds fantastic.
Proudly I can say that I came up with this a long time ago myself :) Also, for stereo Image, you can compare the mid and sides of the reference and your mix ;)
Thanks again for some great ideas brother ❤️🇬🇧❤️ kind regards from London. I struggle in two areas, firstly I can’t find reference mixes that use the same arrangement and production as the songs I write and record. I can find similar tracks but never music that is close enough for my use. Secondly I can only access mastered reference tracks which do not represent the original mix. I would love to hear unmastered tracks in a similar vein to my own music. Surely the reference tracks you use have been eq'd with multi band compression with various formats in mind that do not accurately represent the original raw item?!
Interesting, one thing to think about is the key of both songs compared as they might not reflect the same frequency range if they are in different keys.
For those with less time &/or worse ears, there always Mastering The Mix's Bassroom & Mixroom for helping you dial in EQ curves based on those from reference mixes. I'm not saying this idea is bad, just throwing out an alternative.
Always great to A/B. There's always so much more to learn. I like your song a lot more than the Alabama Shakes song - but that's just personal taste. The low end difference was really interesting. I'm glad you pointed out the ADPTR eq. I was wondering why you weren't using it. Do you use the ADPTR Loudness Match function? I find that very helpful and easy for level matching.
Subjectively, I prefer the tonal balance of your mix, even though IMO the two songs are hardly comparable given the differences in voice and energy level and emotion. But: Thanks for a guide to focus in on just frequency sections of reference vs. your work -- that can turn out to be endlessly helpful. I was wondering what to do with the ADPTR's filter section and hadn't played around with it enough for the "lightbulb" moment.
This channel is like the Tape Op of TH-cam recording channels. Or, it's like that old Wet magazine from Hollywood in the 80s when they would have a Brian Eno interview. Very collectible. You never throw them out. I'd like to do a coffee table with this guy's face on it and have some beatnik poets put out their cigarettes on it.
En lugar de Fab-Q puede usar ISOL8 que es gratuito y puede definir en qué frecuencias desea que divida el espectro. También puedes escuchar medio/lateral.
References became such an issue for me. Thing is, how do you even pick a song that's similar, and when you do -maybe something else is going on in the specific frequency range or whatever. In a way i still don't know what to do with them. A lot of the music i like has flawed production too- not that i am doing better but why aim for it? E.g. pick the most identical song to yours: so the bass is playing in this range differently, they have a tambourine mine doesn't, oh they used two guitars i used four, I do think however as a general learning tool its quite useful- y'know, sitting down in a general 'training' session of looking at what stuff is expected to be in a way. But A/B two tracks in a mix i am still at some stage where i would rather look at a frequency graph idk
shawn everett rocks so hard. and this vid is amazing. that reference track of yours, I would listen the HELL out of it. those ultra-compressed vocals. I want to know more about this artist you're mixing.
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Your mix sounded better trust your instincts, I think you have it backwards the Shakes should use your track for a reference. Mixing is subjective, I do believe in using reference tracks but I also believe in inovation, mixing is like painting it is a true art form ,it is good to get a general idea of what other engineers are doing but it doesn't mean just because nobody is doing what you are doing it must mean you are doing it wrong, especially if your ears are trained, it could mean that you are inovating.....trust your instincts
I really like this perspective. Sometimes the job calls for a specific sound, but it's also our job to create new ones.
Yes. I agree!! Spot on!🤜🏼🤛🏼
Truth.
I agree, I like yours far better. I actually thought the first thing you played was the Shakes (I'm not familiar with their stuff) and I was blown away by the mix. The Shakes in contrast sounds sorta brittle/harsh to me. I don't mean any hate to them or Shawn, they all seem really cool for sure. But I'm just really sensitive about the tone of the high-end. Your mix has more of that "classic sound" (for lack of a better term) of the '70s record I grew up on, but not in a way where it sounds like a rehash, sounds fresh.
Completely agree
I found your channel some weeks ago and I am amazed. Different and fresh content. You earned a new subscriber.
On the topic. I am developing my reference track workflow. Sometimes it does work to match with a specific song, sometimes I just need to refresh my ears and others I just try to copy the vibe or fell of a specific element or band. It is hard! But I have to admit that this technique can safe a lot of time and guessing.
I loved the quote of level match to train your ears.
Best wishes from Spain and looking forward for the mixing event!
Take care and stay safe!
Your mix is more rich and focused at the same time than the reference track.
But the whole experiment is very interesting!
Thank you.
Woah, the difference around 8:39 where you can hear the snare "meat" in the Shakes track but no snare at all in your track. This trick is awesome!
In reaper you can send a track direct to a sound device output, so you can use your master bus as you would normally. That eliminates the need for a pre-master track.
I treasure your channel! Every video changes the way I think about recording and music in general
I’ve recently attempted the same exercise and while I learned a lot about differences between my mixes and others, the thing is that you have to remember: Differences are good! I found myself questioning my instincts. Generally that’s a good thing - but when you’re actually on a job, you don’t want to be using someone else’s instinct about a different performance to dictate what you do in your mix. I suppose that’s a disconnect you have to learn to exercise. Thanks - some great practical tips here, as always.
I am a HUGE Shawn Everett fan, his mixes are some of the most creative mixes out there. He doesn't strive for high fidelity as much as super creative techniques that sound really cool. I also very much enjoy your work and channel Ryan. If you get a chance check out some of his tutorials they are insane! He uses headphones as drum mics :)
wow, i’ve known this technique from glenn’s video, but it’s rather comprehensive seeing you running this technique. because people would react differently with their own flow of working. kudos ryan.
Man! Great video and very well delivered. You have a gift and it's a joy to watch you work, brother! Thanks for sharing the event! Pumped to see you all there.
Oof man... The number one thing I've learned when trying to mix with references is that before you can actually compare mixes, you have to make sure that the arrangements are somewhat compatible. I personally couldn't really make any judgements with most of the spots you chose to compare. For Instance, you used a part of the reference track to focus in on the low end where the bass guitar literally dropped out for a couple beats, same with guitar (mostly vocal in the ref), and what little guitar could be heard was playing in an entirely different register too.
You are definitely a far superior mixing engineer to myself, so I'm not gonna pretend that I know any better, but I really have trouble imagining what information you were able to gain from comparing those specific sections. Maybe you can enlighten me! :)
Anyway, is there a reason you are using ProQ instead of the filter section within ADAPTR?
Yeah so the on board eq seems to cut the volume a lot. It’s almost like it’s super gentle. For the reference, her voice is the same octave as his a lot of times in the track. I couldn’t hear lay it too long without getting flagged by TH-cam. Also, density and speed. I didn’t have rhythm guitars but it it has organ and it’s a retro sound in 6/8. Speed is good to match for the low end. Faster = less low end in the deep subs.
@@creativesoundlab Oh yeah, that makes sense. Thanks! :)
Thanks for this! I would love to see "shakes" and "my mix" text each time you switch. I was focusing on the EQ sometimes when you were switching back and forth quickly. Your mix sounds fantastic.
Proudly I can say that I came up with this a long time ago myself :) Also, for stereo Image, you can compare the mid and sides of the reference and your mix ;)
Thanks again for some great ideas brother ❤️🇬🇧❤️ kind regards from London. I struggle in two areas, firstly I can’t find reference mixes that use the same arrangement and production as the songs I write and record. I can find similar tracks but never music that is close enough for my use. Secondly I can only access mastered reference tracks which do not represent the original mix. I would love to hear unmastered tracks in a similar vein to my own music. Surely the reference tracks you use have been eq'd with multi band compression with various formats in mind that do not accurately represent the original raw item?!
Always difficult when you're comparing a track that has been mastered
Interesting, one thing to think about is the key of both songs compared as they might not reflect the same frequency range if they are in different keys.
For those with less time &/or worse ears, there always Mastering The Mix's Bassroom & Mixroom for helping you dial in EQ curves based on those from reference mixes. I'm not saying this idea is bad, just throwing out an alternative.
Always great to A/B. There's always so much more to learn. I like your song a lot more than the Alabama Shakes song - but that's just personal taste. The low end difference was really interesting.
I'm glad you pointed out the ADPTR eq. I was wondering why you weren't using it. Do you use the ADPTR Loudness Match function? I find that very helpful and easy for level matching.
Looks like a good way check freq balance whether you have a ref track or not. I'm definitely going to try it.
funny how Shawn Everett actually uses this technique too and you're referencing his mix!!!
Subjectively, I prefer the tonal balance of your mix, even though IMO the two songs are hardly comparable given the differences in voice and energy level and emotion. But: Thanks for a guide to focus in on just frequency sections of reference vs. your work -- that can turn out to be endlessly helpful. I was wondering what to do with the ADPTR's filter section and hadn't played around with it enough for the "lightbulb" moment.
This channel is like the Tape Op of TH-cam recording channels. Or, it's like that old Wet magazine from Hollywood in the 80s when they would have a Brian Eno interview. Very collectible. You never throw them out. I'd like to do a coffee table with this guy's face on it and have some beatnik poets put out their cigarettes on it.
En lugar de Fab-Q puede usar ISOL8 que es gratuito y puede definir en qué frecuencias desea que divida el espectro. También puedes escuchar medio/lateral.
Such a usful technique. Thamk you!
What a brilliant thing to do. Can’t wait to try that! Thanks!
Interesting, I would like to know what changes you made to your material based on your findings.
amazing video thanks so much, I'm gonna start doing this alllllll the time. So interesting indeed
References became such an issue for me. Thing is, how do you even pick a song that's similar, and when you do -maybe something else is going on in the specific frequency range or whatever. In a way i still don't know what to do with them. A lot of the music i like has flawed production too- not that i am doing better but why aim for it?
E.g. pick the most identical song to yours: so the bass is playing in this range differently, they have a tambourine mine doesn't, oh they used two guitars i used four,
I do think however as a general learning tool its quite useful- y'know, sitting down in a general 'training' session of looking at what stuff is expected to be in a way. But A/B two tracks in a mix i am still at some stage where i would rather look at a frequency graph idk
I don't know man. Your mix kicks the shit out of the other one.
I agree with Billy. Trust your instincts!
Thank you 🙏
Cool, I see the usefulness.. But your mix sounds better than their released mix+master, so .. 😊
Say interesting one more time. Jk, awesome video. One day I hope to have a vague inkling how to do this
Your mix is better than the reference track.
seems complex confusing and time consuming though.
shawn everett rocks so hard. and this vid is amazing. that reference track of yours, I would listen the HELL out of it. those ultra-compressed vocals. I want to know more about this artist you're mixing.