Well said. If people feel that war games should be changed, they can create their own ‘conflict games’ without altering the kind of wargames we know and love. History needs to be understood - and our games are one means for for doing that.
On Reddit I made a very mild comment to someone who was referring to the Confederate Army as “The Traitors” in a wargaming group. All I said was “Hey, it’s not Warhammer 40k, they were called the Confederates”. I was downvoted into oblivion - despite the fact that my ancestors fought and died for the Union. But I have respect for the men on both sides, even the ones on the “wrong” side. Then again, I actually served in the military. I hate Reddit.
Spot on, Kev. I know the game and have been following its development since 2019. It’s about the infighting of the German High Command in WWII. But many people are allergic to certain history these days. Cheers!
It just frustrates me that we have so much b.s around facts of history. And dissidemt elements insisting we change for b.s. reasons that are to suit their agenda.
I have been banned from BGG (one account anyways) for the exact same reasoning, chastizing someone crying about the german flag on the atlantic chase game. These morons have even infiltrated this hobby....
Eventually the thought police will come for wargames. But I won’t accept it. There are indie comics. There are indie movies and songs and books. I will always enjoy my wargames. Nuff’ said.
I am concerned when people in this hobby try to tell me what I should not say as much as I dislike folks insisting what I should and shouldn't play. I'm not sure of the details of the discussion you refer to, in large part because I live in a place where Facebook, Instagram and other social media are banned. So having not seen the various comments, I should not speak to the motives of those who insist that certain symbols should not appear or that specific topics should not be broached, much less gamed. While I wish there was a bit less invective involved and that the attacks were not on people so much on a perspective that you disagree with, for what it's worth, I am glad that you took the opportunity to state your views passionately and directly. There may be no middle ground visible presently, but perhaps once the mist clears a bit, one may yet appear. Thank you once again for your videos, playthroughs and commentary generally.
yeah. I apologise for the swearing but these are a problem that wont go away, and there are very few people who are prepared to call out their actions. I do it in this manner so that it garners the most attention. 4 or 5 yrs ago when I brought it up, everyone thought I was nuts no such thing Kevin.... Now here we are. I do not want the worlds perceived problems from a bunch of Marxist-Libtards trying to fix a hobby that aint broke. We saw the same thing in other hobbies that are much bigger, and indeed we see it in the movies and TV in the USA. Im tired of it. So I intend to push back, and play my games, use words I want to call a spade a 'fucking shovel' if it gets teh point across and exposes these guys. That way at least we all know what's happening. As time has progressed they have failed at much of their efforts except the nonsense with the now derided CSR awards. anyway rant over.
thumbs up, not for the "your feelings" rant, but for the request to have other ways of discussing Crosses and Heroes than to just demonize (or whitewash) them.😥
8 or 10 years ago when folks were starting to get fired up about historical statues we had a thread on BGG about whether it was time to put away the Confederate flag or not. I posted that black folks had bigger problems than what was depicted on a wargame box cover. I pulled a 7-day ban… even though what I said was absolutely true.
I was permanently banned for saying that my gaming group had no issues with blacks or women, as we had quite a few black and female members. I was permanently banned for not going along with their false narrative
Thing is, humans have been failing to learn the lessons of history - and so repeating the horrors of war - ever since they learned to walk upright. Nothing changes.
My only objection is that Iron Cross (or any other medal) ownership should be reserved for those who earned them in battle. If I were to purchase an old medal, it would become my life’s mission to ensure it was returned to the family of the person who actually earned it.
well I figure we just make people aware of what their intentions are and we can then have a little light on the topic. Look at the Farce CSRs have become.
Back in the day, Avalon Hill had an Iron Cross on the cover of the Squad Leader game "Cross or Iron". I shall have to go and look on my copy to what it looked like. Edit: Escape from Colditz had a swastika on the box but that was changed when the game went into reprint, and I can't find my copy of Cross of Iron. Going to have to talk to the wife about that!!!!
It starts to get on my nerves. Fred Serval's comments, Other side of the Hill forum discussion, attacks on Mark Herman for supposedly "favoring" CSA in For the People... Peak ignorance.
Serval is just a useful troll he does what he is told, massively passive aggressive. Could not even honestly apologise to Ruggeroi for 'wishing death to older gamers' ..... then has him on his channel for a sympathy ploy.
I find it funny that they want to change the medals, banners, logos, etc. but the underlying cause they are happy to play. I'm going to start arguing against the concept of spirits in Spirit Island or inhumane treatment of animals in Ark Nova.
Great video Kevin, I'm glad you were willing to call out Harold B. and what appears to be a growing circle of "socially conscious" wargamers...which seems like an oxymoron to begin with. I suspect it's just the way he has been able to maintain his interest in military history/wargames with living in California. I can imagine small talk at neighborhood get togethers presents a challenge...
Thanks for doing this, mate. However, you know that history and common sense will never beat stupidity and the idiotic twits that are currently out there. Keep 'em coming!!!
Stalin!?!?! OMFG!! The combination of hilarious and hypocritical boggles the mind. Probably has a Pol Pot tie pin. "Just a little house cleaning." I actually try to be reasonably sensitive to others' feelings, etc. but half of that mission objective is "reasonably." Cheers.
fair enough too. Look I do not want to make you angry. But I also do not want you changing the facts ignoring the facts or brow beating designers and publisher for exploring new and innovative ideas.
I was blissfully unaware of any of this BS. I still kind of am. I don't know what "discussions" you're referring to. Hopefully it's just a small bubble. No reason to get all worked up over what some small group of weirdos think. I find it hard to believe that people want to change the name wargame.
Stay uninvolved. But the push is real and I spoke to the publisher and confirmed that indeed that was what was asked of them. I can only surmise they made that effort where they could. It is a small bubble but they keep agitating to remove games, change art, stop designers being published that do not fit their agenda. Pretty sad given the size of the hobby group and the focus being in fact History
You will not die on that hill alone!! Change the past to attempt to cover up EXACTLY what happened is the recipe to repeat it. The same people cannot deal with real history. The short sighted. I highly recommend Ricky Gervais for some great techniques for dealing with those with “feelings issues”. Where can I read about this fame sounds interesting!!
Everyone knows wargames are really simulating herds of rabbits fighting a racewar against foxes but we have to talk in code so know one knows they are pink! Also they are marshmallow bunnies.
The Iron Cross is of a Prussian origin, The natsys stole it, like all the other imagery they stole and got their stink all over... I don't know why people get that twisted. History is a thing. It happened, and hopefully we learned what not to do. On the other hand: There's a guy in Steam who is obsessed with swatsticker flags, Says itt's all about realism, so he mods games to include the natsy flag. Kind of obsessed about it. People, as a rule, are weird. But that's just my opinion.
We could all learn a lot from watching that good doggie behind you--- relax folks! Its a game about war, history, and conflict resolution. Like on the Electric Company kids show from the past: "War" ; "Game" --> Wargame.
When I was stationed in West Germany in the mid 80s, I purchased an ME109 model kit, and when I got it back to the barracks I opened it up, and found that the swastikas were cut out. Guess what? The world didn't end. Yes, they dealt with their problem much differently than we did. Here in America we named military bases after the insurrectionists. Can you imagine if there was a base in Germany called Rommel Barraracks, or Guderian Armor Center? They don't have issues with this stupid problem a hundred years later like we do. There is no reason to glorify the SS in wargaming by making their counters black, for example like was done in ASL briefly. The finns weren't a different color. But the SS needs to be black for some reason. If someone points out that there is an appearance of glorification of the SS, shit heads start talking about the 'feelings police' as if the Holocaust didn't happen. Those SS uniforms were not black because they specialized in night fighting. They were black to glorify the unit.
News Flash: In war, there are no "good" guys and bad things happen to innocent people on all sides. But it is a topic that we can study and evaluate through the use of war games. And the "Muh Feelings" crowd with their "historical" games can get stuffed.
war disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is the paper thin rationales for war. ITs usually zealots like these grade school champions of 'ideology du jour' that start the fucking things on BOTH SIDES...or ALL sides of the spectrum
These people have no problem simulating death and suffering though. Take away the actual historical context, the learning of the events that led up to the war and how it could have played out if different decisions were made or circumstances came about and its just death porn. I have no time for virtue signallers.
Not sure my first comment stayed so I'll post again. Great Video! Feel the same way. You missed one of the worst cry babies in your list of emotion driven people, Stewart Ellis Gorman. He's a propagandist who pretends to be a historian. I'll give him this he's a skilled writer, very much disagree with his thoughts though. He runs a blog where he posts his reviews and then puts a BGG link review on there so people who read his blog can then bum rush his BGG review with praise having never even played the game. That's how I encountered him, just minding my own business and then I read this BGG review of a board game I owned, where if you actually owned the game and weren't part of the professionally offended class, you'd understand that the game design notes were intentionally taken out of context by Gorman and of course all the people who made their way there were from his blog won't know because they don't own the game. One of my favorite things he said that I found laugh out loud funny to summarize is, if you said the north won the civil war because of their economic advantages he implied you were a lost cause adherent and a neo confederate and therefore implying you were a racist. Now I'm not even saying that economic argument is right but to say someone making that argument is a racist... tells you all you need to know about the state of modern academia which Stuart is a product of. Basically, if you disagree in anything he says get ready to be called a neo confederate lol. This guy has the thinnest skin I've ever seen in my life, the moment he's questioned he can't handle it and anyone who confronts him on it BGG bans. Sometimes it's kind of funny to watch for entertainment and sometimes it's just pathetic. In a different review he went after Herman Luttmann in what was absolutely a pathetic and unwarranted attempt at character assassination. I ended up responding on that one, and well that was the end of my BGG experience as I was kicked off for hurting Stuart's feelings and saying something mean and to the right of Mao. These idiots you are talking about are truly attempting to do Maoist struggle sessions and anyone who confronts them on BGG are banned. At this point if you are banned from BGG I'd consider it a badge of honor and common sense. Glad to hear you're vocal about this topic. Keep up the good fight and thanks for the reviews. I really do enjoy your reviews. I bought Konigsberg thanks to your review by the way! Clipping the counters now...
Well said. If people feel that war games should be changed, they can create their own ‘conflict games’ without altering the kind of wargames we know and love. History needs to be understood - and our games are one means for for doing that.
amen
The Empire Strikes Back is to The Acolyte, as Jack Radey is to Fred Serval. Discuss.
clever
On Reddit I made a very mild comment to someone who was referring to the Confederate Army as “The Traitors” in a wargaming group. All I said was “Hey, it’s not Warhammer 40k, they were called the Confederates”. I was downvoted into oblivion - despite the fact that my ancestors fought and died for the Union. But I have respect for the men on both sides, even the ones on the “wrong” side. Then again, I actually served in the military. I hate Reddit.
not a surprise. Its a cesspool
DEFUND THE FEELINGS POLICE
lolol
Spot on, Kev. I know the game and have been following its development since 2019. It’s about the infighting of the German High Command in WWII. But many people are allergic to certain history these days. Cheers!
It just frustrates me that we have so much b.s around facts of history. And dissidemt elements insisting we change for b.s. reasons that are to suit their agenda.
I have been banned from BGG (one account anyways) for the exact same reasoning, chastizing someone crying about the german flag on the atlantic chase game. These morons have even infiltrated this hobby....
Dude, you got banned. Who is the real moron here?
ditto
Same... it's a badge of honor and common sense at this point to be banned from that site.
I am a veteran of three wars. (Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria). I play wargames. How many wars have these censors been in?
I assure these fat cats have been in ZERO
Give 'em hell!
:)
Eventually the thought police will come for wargames. But I won’t accept it. There are indie comics. There are indie movies and songs and books. I will always enjoy my wargames. Nuff’ said.
:)
I'm with you, Kev! Couldn't agree more.
I am concerned when people in this hobby try to tell me what I should not say as much as I dislike folks insisting what I should and shouldn't play.
I'm not sure of the details of the discussion you refer to, in large part because I live in a place where Facebook, Instagram and other social media are banned. So having not seen the various comments, I should not speak to the motives of those who insist that certain symbols should not appear or that specific topics should not be broached, much less gamed. While I wish there was a bit less invective involved and that the attacks were not on people so much on a perspective that you disagree with, for what it's worth, I am glad that you took the opportunity to state your views passionately and directly. There may be no middle ground visible presently, but perhaps once the mist clears a bit, one may yet appear.
Thank you once again for your videos, playthroughs and commentary generally.
yeah. I apologise for the swearing but these are a problem that wont go away, and there are very few people who are prepared to call out their actions. I do it in this manner so that it garners the most attention. 4 or 5 yrs ago when I brought it up, everyone thought I was nuts no such thing Kevin....
Now here we are.
I do not want the worlds perceived problems from a bunch of Marxist-Libtards trying to fix a hobby that aint broke. We saw the same thing in other hobbies that are much bigger, and indeed we see it in the movies and TV in the USA. Im tired of it.
So I intend to push back, and play my games, use words I want to call a spade a 'fucking shovel' if it gets teh point across and exposes these guys. That way at least we all know what's happening. As time has progressed they have failed at much of their efforts except the nonsense with the now derided CSR awards.
anyway rant over.
thumbs up, not for the "your feelings" rant, but for the request to have other ways of discussing Crosses and Heroes than to just demonize (or whitewash) them.😥
roger that!
8 or 10 years ago when folks were starting to get fired up about historical statues we had a thread on BGG about whether it was time to put away the Confederate flag or not. I posted that black folks had bigger problems than what was depicted on a wargame box cover. I pulled a 7-day ban… even though what I said was absolutely true.
BGG consists of extremist progressive moderation policies, might as well be in North Korea.
It's virtue signaling plain and simple. These people have never lifted a finger to solve the actual issues.
I was permanently banned for saying that my gaming group had no issues with blacks or women, as we had quite a few black and female members. I was permanently banned for not going along with their false narrative
Me too. Freakin snowflaked
What, don't you want to play a game about gay sex clubs in Victorian England?
LOL.. ITs a warzone being a hooker!
Spot on that man.spot on.
cheers
Kev you already know my thoughts on the subject. I don't have any words for the feels police but I do have a finger gesture for them.
Well said, Big!
:)
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~Santayana
and my history teacher.
amen
Thing is, humans have been failing to learn the lessons of history - and so repeating the horrors of war - ever since they learned to walk upright. Nothing changes.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to play Warhammer.
My only objection is that Iron Cross (or any other medal) ownership should be reserved for those who earned them in battle. If I were to purchase an old medal, it would become my life’s mission to ensure it was returned to the family of the person who actually earned it.
yes. These are replicas of Prussian and German awards.
I stand on That Hill with you Kev.
well I figure we just make people aware of what their intentions are and we can then have a little light on the topic. Look at the Farce CSRs have become.
Back in the day, Avalon Hill had an Iron Cross on the cover of the Squad Leader game "Cross or Iron". I shall have to go and look on my copy to what it looked like.
Edit: Escape from Colditz had a swastika on the box but that was changed when the game went into reprint, and I can't find my copy of Cross of Iron. Going to have to talk to the wife about that!!!!
COLDITZ..OMG I musta played a 100 times
It starts to get on my nerves. Fred Serval's comments, Other side of the Hill forum discussion, attacks on Mark Herman for supposedly "favoring" CSA in For the People... Peak ignorance.
Hermann Luttmann has been attacked by these clueless SJW’s, too.
Serval is just a useful troll he does what he is told, massively passive aggressive. Could not even honestly apologise to Ruggeroi for 'wishing death to older gamers' ..... then has him on his channel for a sympathy ploy.
indeed
To paraphrase Thomas Sowell, these hobby activists are so thoroughly convinced of their moral superiority, they are blinded to their own ignorance.
That’s some irony right there.
I totally agree. I've had enough of be shut down due to people's knickers being in a twist.
knicker twisting must be aggravating
I find it funny that they want to change the medals, banners, logos, etc. but the underlying cause they are happy to play. I'm going to start arguing against the concept of spirits in Spirit Island or inhumane treatment of animals in Ark Nova.
lol. REally? wow
Great video Kevin, I'm glad you were willing to call out Harold B. and what appears to be a growing circle of "socially conscious" wargamers...which seems like an oxymoron to begin with. I suspect it's just the way he has been able to maintain his interest in military history/wargames with living in California. I can imagine small talk at neighborhood get togethers presents a challenge...
It must be exhausting to live in California. Constantly signalling your virtue just to stay alive in such a cut throat environment.
awareness is the key here.
LOL
Thanks for doing this, mate. However, you know that history and common sense will never beat stupidity and the idiotic twits that are currently out there. Keep 'em coming!!!
thx for watching
Well, it looks like it's time to burn my entire WWII book and wargame collection. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, mate!
good job mate
:)
Stalin!?!?! OMFG!! The combination of hilarious and hypocritical boggles the mind. Probably has a Pol Pot tie pin. "Just a little house cleaning." I actually try to be reasonably sensitive to others' feelings, etc. but half of that mission objective is "reasonably." Cheers.
fair enough too. Look I do not want to make you angry. But I also do not want you changing the facts ignoring the facts or brow beating designers and publisher for exploring new and innovative ideas.
@@war_gamer Exactly. That's an excellent point about avoiding self-censorship in innovation.
full gorwn men crying about everything haha 🤣🤣
Well some are men, others not so much. Soft effete superior minded soft handed men, if that is a man
I was blissfully unaware of any of this BS. I still kind of am. I don't know what "discussions" you're referring to. Hopefully it's just a small bubble. No reason to get all worked up over what some small group of weirdos think. I find it hard to believe that people want to change the name wargame.
Stay uninvolved. But the push is real and I spoke to the publisher and confirmed that indeed that was what was asked of them. I can only surmise they made that effort where they could. It is a small bubble but they keep agitating to remove games, change art, stop designers being published that do not fit their agenda. Pretty sad given the size of the hobby group and the focus being in fact History
You will not die on that hill alone!! Change the past to attempt to cover up EXACTLY what happened is the recipe to repeat it. The same people cannot deal with real history. The short sighted. I highly recommend Ricky Gervais for some great techniques for dealing with those with “feelings issues”. Where can I read about this fame sounds interesting!!
:) thanks man
Everyone knows wargames are really simulating herds of rabbits fighting a racewar against foxes but we have to talk in code so know one knows they are pink! Also they are marshmallow bunnies.
lol
The Iron Cross is of a Prussian origin, The natsys stole it, like all the other imagery they stole and got their stink all over... I don't know why people get that twisted. History is a thing. It happened, and hopefully we learned what not to do.
On the other hand:
There's a guy in Steam who is obsessed with swatsticker flags, Says itt's all about realism, so he mods games to include the natsy flag. Kind of obsessed about it.
People, as a rule, are weird. But that's just my opinion.
It just demonstrates that these people are driven by an agenda and use their feelings to drive wedges between us we few we crazy wargamers.
@@war_gamer I just cannot understand that troll/outrage mindset. Chaos for the lols. That's what happens to kids who never played a wargame, I guess.
We could all learn a lot from watching that good doggie behind you--- relax folks! Its a game about war, history, and conflict resolution. Like on the Electric Company kids show from the past: "War" ; "Game" --> Wargame.
indeed
When I was stationed in West Germany in the mid 80s, I purchased an ME109 model kit, and when I got it back to the barracks I opened it up, and found that the swastikas were cut out. Guess what? The world didn't end. Yes, they dealt with their problem much differently than we did. Here in America we named military bases after the insurrectionists. Can you imagine if there was a base in Germany called Rommel Barraracks, or Guderian Armor Center? They don't have issues with this stupid problem a hundred years later like we do. There is no reason to glorify the SS in wargaming by making their counters black, for example like was done in ASL briefly. The finns weren't a different color. But the SS needs to be black for some reason. If someone points out that there is an appearance of glorification of the SS, shit heads start talking about the 'feelings police' as if the Holocaust didn't happen. Those SS uniforms were not black because they specialized in night fighting. They were black to glorify the unit.
This is the best thing I ever saw.
:)
ABSOLUTELY
News Flash: In war, there are no "good" guys and bad things happen to innocent people on all sides. But it is a topic that we can study and evaluate through the use of war games. And the "Muh Feelings" crowd with their "historical" games can get stuffed.
war disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is the paper thin rationales for war. ITs usually zealots like these grade school champions of 'ideology du jour' that start the fucking things on BOTH SIDES...or ALL sides of the spectrum
These people have no problem simulating death and suffering though. Take away the actual historical context, the learning of the events that led up to the war and how it could have played out if different decisions were made or circumstances came about and its just death porn. I have no time for virtue signallers.
Not sure my first comment stayed so I'll post again. Great Video! Feel the same way. You missed one of the worst cry babies in your list of emotion driven people, Stewart Ellis Gorman. He's a propagandist who pretends to be a historian. I'll give him this he's a skilled writer, very much disagree with his thoughts though. He runs a blog where he posts his reviews and then puts a BGG link review on there so people who read his blog can then bum rush his BGG review with praise having never even played the game. That's how I encountered him, just minding my own business and then I read this BGG review of a board game I owned, where if you actually owned the game and weren't part of the professionally offended class, you'd understand that the game design notes were intentionally taken out of context by Gorman and of course all the people who made their way there were from his blog won't know because they don't own the game. One of my favorite things he said that I found laugh out loud funny to summarize is, if you said the north won the civil war because of their economic advantages he implied you were a lost cause adherent and a neo confederate and therefore implying you were a racist. Now I'm not even saying that economic argument is right but to say someone making that argument is a racist... tells you all you need to know about the state of modern academia which Stuart is a product of. Basically, if you disagree in anything he says get ready to be called a neo confederate lol. This guy has the thinnest skin I've ever seen in my life, the moment he's questioned he can't handle it and anyone who confronts him on it BGG bans. Sometimes it's kind of funny to watch for entertainment and sometimes it's just pathetic. In a different review he went after Herman Luttmann in what was absolutely a pathetic and unwarranted attempt at character assassination. I ended up responding on that one, and well that was the end of my BGG experience as I was kicked off for hurting Stuart's feelings and saying something mean and to the right of Mao. These idiots you are talking about are truly attempting to do Maoist struggle sessions and anyone who confronts them on BGG are banned. At this point if you are banned from BGG I'd consider it a badge of honor and common sense.
Glad to hear you're vocal about this topic. Keep up the good fight and thanks for the reviews. I really do enjoy your reviews. I bought Konigsberg thanks to your review by the way! Clipping the counters now...
i saw that thread. it ended my time at bgg also. yeah he is a tool
“Feelings police.” Yet ya deleted my comment.
me? I did not delete let me go look in spam.
i see no blocks or deletes, try again if you have something worthwhile to add