Another factor I think is that companies feel obligated to have a big range of IEMs so they end up making a bunch with bad tuning because they need make them different from each other.
@@ice_and_fire_audioNo the fuck they don't. You know what professional musicians use? UE CIEMs. I have a close friend who is an audio engineer and has worked with many artists, some small, some huge, some middle of the road, and most of them with IEMs, are UE. The rest use either universal IEMs from various brands or other CIEMs from other brands.
Campfire is one of the only companies still alive that thinks we still live in 2016 with their tuning. Even their $3200 DDD flagship is utterly horrendous. The Andromeda was a long time ago now.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez Exactly my point. At least CA tries. But JHA thinks coming up with a new cable connection, one nobody needed and no one wants to use, counts as innovation. Chifi has changed the game and once the distribution and path dependancies that keep these dinosaurs alive erode over time, they will disappear.
Looking at the FR graphs for these high-end IEMs going all over the place makes me really appreciate the tuning of my Monarch MK2. Sure neutral with a sub bass shelf is about the most vanilla tuning and it's barely a kilobuck IEM, but I'd take neutral over what I can only politely call "very colored."
I really wish places had the old Vega 2016 to demo. It was also a bass monster but with better detail and an overall more balanced tuning. Definitely my favorite of all time atm.
I’ve always been curious on your take on some of the new acoustunes like the hs2000mx & the hs1790ti. All reviews of this product are mainly from chinese creators and was wondering why it isnt ass popular amongst english speaking creators. Thanks ❤
Everyone was gushing over 7hz timeless and s12 detail retrieval, but the truth is that with the right setup tin p1max destroys every vshape garbage planar iem. The tone and timbre surpases blon bo3 (let that sink in) every song I listen to sounds like a remaster. The imaging and bass is impeccable for the price.
@@ice_and_fire_audioMediocre? If we're talking about the Ra-C-Cu it's fucking hot garbage of an IEM. Actually fucking worthless. I have 25 dollar dollar store earbuds that sound better let alone my Arias, or Hexas, or Blessing 3s, or Monarch Mk 3s.
My last visit to tokyo in December 2022 and spending over 30K for (head-ear phones) I found Oriolus Traillii don't worth the price . My # 1 IEM is Campfire Trifecta for now. you have to try it Bro.
Lol the 6300 is already overprice let alone 9300$, Oriolus is better off making jewelry accessories than making iem. With 9300$ you can buy 3-4 TOTL iems
Endgame tuning doesn't exist really. When it comes to expensive IEMs, it just has to be a tuning with the least amount of unpleasant mistakes possible while offering something unique at the same time. Of course, this is only MY definition, everyone will have their own criteria on what endgame is to them. The most important thing is to realize once you get pass $500 in cost, the value for money goes downhill very fast. So why do people buy expensive IEMs?? Like I said, everyone will have their own criteria and reasons on this.
Funny how in our IEM hobby USD 9K is super end-game material but for watch enthusiasts that's probably entry to mid game price. Having said that with how fast Chi-Fi is changing the market and the price they are pushing out, there's absolutely no point of venturing to such price brackets for IEMs.
6:00 I don't listen to any device even at half the volume, and I do notice a difference between an amplified iem with a smartphone and an amplifier, even with balanced outputs 🤷🏻♂️
@@AleDJacobo you misunderstood his stance. I think he just doesn't care much about source. If his phone can't drive a set, he just buy a couple of DAPs that can and problem solved. That's it. He could feel some difference in sound but probably not that much compared to if he changes the IEMs
Do companies just slap it together, checks if it looks pretty, and sell it at the cost of a kidney? Cuz Whyyyyy are there so many that are barely mid 🫴🏼🫴🏼 😭😂
You can point fingers at any industry for the same thing really. Like why Gucci bags cost $$$$ when it cost $ to make, etc. Expensive IEMs above $500 are just like expensive bags. 99% of them are not worth the retail price, but it's there if you can and want to buy it for your personal reasons.
@@Gizaudio Yeah but those companies are not exactly Gucci. They try to become Gucci for iems but the truth is most people have no idea what they are. And with Gucci you don't need to wear Gucci to recognize Gucci. That's a lot of Gucci for one comment 😅
Ok I've got a question; HOW an iem that doesn't have a clear pinna gain is considered good? I can understand the treble extension but what the lack of pinna gain gives you? I know a slightly delayed gain gives you staging, every Soundstage king headphone has that.
First you have to see else is in the tuning along side the lack of pinna, and there are various decent options. Some examples are... 1. Lack of pinna + treble rise (normally around 7khz to 11khz) This gives the sense of "heady" soundstage you find in some QDC IEMs and IEMs like SA6 Ultra, and IE200. This tuning puts the vocals more in the back and elevate more of the micro details making the sound overall brighter and spacious. 2. Lack of pinna + clean bass With this it's extra important to have clean bass, but if done well can deliver a bass forward sound that doesn't damage the timbral qualities of other instruments or vocals (assuming treble is decent). In summary, lack of pinna is basically pushing back most instruments engagement level to highlight other elements that are not often the main star of the track. It's not very natural sounding, more of a colored/ flavored tuning option. But like all tuning style, there are good and bad implementations.
@@mehmetgurdal If you put it that way, you can say the same about every tuning style really. Having pinna or not doesn't make one tuning better or worst automatically. It all depends on the rest of the tuning as well.
As a Noble fan, I totally agree with your opinions on Noble Zephyr and M3. They aren't worth the price. But one thing that makes me a little uncomfortable is you making fun of Zephyr's appearance since it has the same look as P1 Max, and who those don't know about Noble, they could think Noble stole the design idea from Tin Hifi. In fact, Zephyr was officially released a long time before P1 Max was. Just tryna clear things up a lit bit.
Can I ask a honest question. Why do people tolerate noble anymore? The k10, encore, and katana are so old and yet their new stuff isn't esoteric, its just insulting. The sultan makes me believe people just like a pillow over everything they listen.
ปีที่แล้ว +1
@@En_Joshi-Godrez idk, those for wealthy enthusiasts. I've auditioned M3, Tux5, Khan, Sultan, Zephyr. They're all the average contenders in their price range. Nothing good and nothing bad. After the 2nd generation (K10, Katana, Encore), seems like The Wizard has lost his direction. Though hearing from the community, Kublai Khan and Viking Ragnar have received a lot of positive feedbacks. I've been waiting for chances to audition the new generation.
The price is actually the clever part, part of the Traillii's marketing strategy. If they were actually worth the price, only a few audiophiles would get them and rave them. Not good for sales. On the other hand, there are people who have too much money to spend. The Traillii is their first and only step into the audiophile hobby, and they're probably going to like it,
Ragnar upper mids and treble looked similar to final audio A3000. I was looking into those and now I think I'm convinced to buy a pair. Have you tried them?
@@Gizaudio I'm not surprised. Graph of a4000 looks sharp like an iron maiden. I watched currawong's video of them recently and he also didn't like a4000 but he said he wished a8000 had a3000's tuning.
Contrarian opinion: the A4000 is really good! Neutral with smooth sub bass. Do not judge on the graph. I’m treble sensitive and it sounds nothing like the graph. Check out some other yt reviews. Some do mention the treble but others do not. If it were chifi I would assume extreme unit variation but it’s Final Audio, so… If you like neutral with subtle, tickle your ears sub bass with one of the best soundstage in any iem under $1000, the A4000 may be for you.
All the hype and under a minute on the oriolus trailli? 😂 it retails much less than $9000 now. And I thought the version has always been JP, just that the red and black faceplate is a US exclusive ? The titanium is the silly priced one
@@VaydaladaVodalada I actually didn’t ever write that kind of comment until now and I also don’t see these that often. You should calm down how are you pissed by other peoples comments on such irrelevant stuff, this ain‘t politics dude :D
Umm no clue between JP and non JP version? Oh dear. There’s the titanium version but suggest clarifying your factual accuracy. That and the very short inpressuon
Bruh 💀 I’m just trying to enjoy music. What are you trying to hear at this point for you to slap on a 9K pricetag for something’s that gonna be updated or replaced so soon in a market where new audiogears are released in a weekly or monthly basis???
I'm somewhat thoroughly convinced that some of these IEMs are made for people who simply like spending a ton of money
Yes
Another factor I think is that companies feel obligated to have a big range of IEMs so they end up making a bunch with bad tuning because they need make them different from each other.
Profesional musicians
hahaha you know nothing. Musicians use these you know
@@ice_and_fire_audioNo the fuck they don't. You know what professional musicians use? UE CIEMs. I have a close friend who is an audio engineer and has worked with many artists, some small, some huge, some middle of the road, and most of them with IEMs, are UE. The rest use either universal IEMs from various brands or other CIEMs from other brands.
Campfire is one of the only companies still alive that thinks we still live in 2016 with their tuning. Even their $3200 DDD flagship is utterly horrendous. The Andromeda was a long time ago now.
@@iemsforbreakfast just curious. Why do you own a nearly $4k iem if you dont like it?
@@iemsforbreakfast maybe you should introduce him to Vision Ears. Their iem are mostly warm tilted, but still very balaced.
*JH Audio has entered the chat wearing a T-shirt from 2016*
@@mensrea1251 have they made a new iem since 2016? I'm very surprised they're still alive.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez Exactly my point. At least CA tries. But JHA thinks coming up with a new cable connection, one nobody needed and no one wants to use, counts as innovation. Chifi has changed the game and once the distribution and path dependancies that keep these dinosaurs alive erode over time, they will disappear.
Looking at the FR graphs for these high-end IEMs going all over the place makes me really appreciate the tuning of my Monarch MK2. Sure neutral with a sub bass shelf is about the most vanilla tuning and it's barely a kilobuck IEM, but I'd take neutral over what I can only politely call "very colored."
i like how your face shows up in the graphs it gives a more idea to what frequencies are you telling really really helpful for begginers ✨✨
I agree. It gives the impression that you are addressing each frequency range personally. 👍
It’s over 9000!!!!!!!!!!
Timmy buddy you have missed a golden opportunity to put this reference on the video. :D
@@mehmetgurdal hahahahaha I know right?!?
I really wish places had the old Vega 2016 to demo. It was also a bass monster but with better detail and an overall more balanced tuning. Definitely my favorite of all time atm.
To clarify:
The Noble audio zephyr was launched in 2021 (January) & the P1 Max was launched in 2022
I’ve always been curious on your take on some of the new acoustunes like the hs2000mx & the hs1790ti. All reviews of this product are mainly from chinese creators and was wondering why it isnt ass popular amongst english speaking creators. Thanks ❤
Everyone was gushing over 7hz timeless and s12 detail retrieval, but the truth is that with the right setup tin p1max destroys every vshape garbage planar iem. The tone and timbre surpases blon bo3 (let that sink in) every song I listen to sounds like a remaster. The imaging and bass is impeccable for the price.
O-Bravo is selling its iem at about 10,500 pound sterling . Really expensive.
and it sounds mediocre when you compare it to Grand Maestro and Vision Ears EXT
@@ice_and_fire_audioMediocre? If we're talking about the Ra-C-Cu it's fucking hot garbage of an IEM. Actually fucking worthless. I have 25 dollar dollar store earbuds that sound better let alone my Arias, or Hexas, or Blessing 3s, or Monarch Mk 3s.
Wow all those expensive iem is not even better than $20 iem
question is have you tried them?
when this hobby goes beyong 1k- 1500 for IEMs, it starts to feel like a silly purchase when theres so many well tuned cheaper options
Remember when AKG N5005 was 1K, now it falls in its reasonable price class if not worse.
Eh why not? Some people have thicker wallets and want the best of the best without compromise.
IEMs are for musicians too not just audiophiles...
I'm eagerly awaiting the Subtonic Storm review!
Grand Maestro is better choice
Have you ever listened to the shuoer tapes? I'm looking for an upgrade (In micro details) up to us 200 for my Shuoer tapes.
My last visit to tokyo in December 2022 and spending over 30K for (head-ear phones) I found Oriolus Traillii don't worth the price . My # 1 IEM is Campfire Trifecta for now. you have to try it Bro.
Is the Noble Audio Kublai Khan price of $2,600 a fair price considering the competition?
"...swallowed a subwoofer..." Hahahahaha! Awesome recap, thanks!
Could you do a review on the Penon serial
Lol the 6300 is already overprice let alone 9300$, Oriolus is better off making jewelry accessories than making iem. With 9300$ you can buy 3-4 TOTL iems
These kind of prices are nuts. Just get a ie600 and moondrop variations for just over 1k for the pair
Can I pay over time with Affirm?
😂
okay timmy okay, but would you rather have 581 sets of Chus, a car, 10 endgame iems, or one Traillii /s
Can I change to 581 sets of Waners?
Hey Timmy, any chance to share with us your impression regarding subtonic storm? Also a comparison between annihilator and storm would be nice 👍
Kind of off topic, is there a comparison between TANGZU x HBB Wu Heyday Edition and Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk somewhere I can check?
Whats realy an endgame tuning
And how do you tell if you havent seen the price
Following cuz interested
Endgame tuning doesn't exist really. When it comes to expensive IEMs, it just has to be a tuning with the least amount of unpleasant mistakes possible while offering something unique at the same time.
Of course, this is only MY definition, everyone will have their own criteria on what endgame is to them. The most important thing is to realize once you get pass $500 in cost, the value for money goes downhill very fast.
So why do people buy expensive IEMs?? Like I said, everyone will have their own criteria and reasons on this.
Storm vs Project red
Who would win
Left side Storm and right side Project Red for best results
@@Gizaudio
Wow
TinHifi damaging their customer's ears so they can't tell the difference between good and bad IEMs
Yeah. But it's an early planar inovation tho
I really like the Campfire Vega 2020. Basshead dream :D
And I thought the MEST was out of my budget
lol, love your take on the campfire vega 2020
Funny how in our IEM hobby USD 9K is super end-game material but for watch enthusiasts that's probably entry to mid game price. Having said that with how fast Chi-Fi is changing the market and the price they are pushing out, there's absolutely no point of venturing to such price brackets for IEMs.
Grand Seiko calling my name....
@@Gizaudio I'm also eyeing a Grand Seiko in the future 😉
6:00 I don't listen to any device even at half the volume, and I do notice a difference between an amplified iem with a smartphone and an amplifier, even with balanced outputs 🤷🏻♂️
What do you mean? Of course sources matter
@@wanaboed Tim says no 🤷🏻♂️
@@AleDJacobo you misunderstood his stance. I think he just doesn't care much about source. If his phone can't drive a set, he just buy a couple of DAPs that can and problem solved. That's it. He could feel some difference in sound but probably not that much compared to if he changes the IEMs
@@wanaboed Oh I see 😯 must be that.. thanks 🙋🏻
@@AleDJacoboand what iems do you have?
Do companies just slap it together, checks if it looks pretty, and sell it at the cost of a kidney? Cuz Whyyyyy are there so many that are barely mid 🫴🏼🫴🏼 😭😂
You can point fingers at any industry for the same thing really. Like why Gucci bags cost $$$$ when it cost $ to make, etc. Expensive IEMs above $500 are just like expensive bags. 99% of them are not worth the retail price, but it's there if you can and want to buy it for your personal reasons.
@@Gizaudio we need some back ally cheap clones like a Unique Melody MIST MK2. Somebody make it happen.
@@Gizaudio Yeah but those companies are not exactly Gucci. They try to become Gucci for iems but the truth is most people have no idea what they are. And with Gucci you don't need to wear Gucci to recognize Gucci. That's a lot of Gucci for one comment 😅
@@Rsalmond83 😂
@@Rsalmond83 but then even traillii clones still kilobuck
Wow, these Uber-pricy IEMs make my Thieaudio Legacy 4 seem like end-gamers - and all for just under 200 dollars. Not giving those up any time soon.
The opposite would be true.
Ok I've got a question; HOW an iem that doesn't have a clear pinna gain is considered good? I can understand the treble extension but what the lack of pinna gain gives you?
I know a slightly delayed gain gives you staging, every Soundstage king headphone has that.
First you have to see else is in the tuning along side the lack of pinna, and there are various decent options. Some examples are...
1. Lack of pinna + treble rise (normally around 7khz to 11khz)
This gives the sense of "heady" soundstage you find in some QDC IEMs and IEMs like SA6 Ultra, and IE200. This tuning puts the vocals more in the back and elevate more of the micro details making the sound overall brighter and spacious.
2. Lack of pinna + clean bass
With this it's extra important to have clean bass, but if done well can deliver a bass forward sound that doesn't damage the timbral qualities of other instruments or vocals (assuming treble is decent).
In summary, lack of pinna is basically pushing back most instruments engagement level to highlight other elements that are not often the main star of the track. It's not very natural sounding, more of a colored/ flavored tuning option.
But like all tuning style, there are good and bad implementations.
@@Gizaudio so it's basically a blue cheese for audiophiles :D
It could go well or shit.
@@mehmetgurdal If you put it that way, you can say the same about every tuning style really. Having pinna or not doesn't make one tuning better or worst automatically. It all depends on the rest of the tuning as well.
Does the UM MEST MK II still worth it in 2023?
no just get the MEST MK3
As a Noble fan, I totally agree with your opinions on Noble Zephyr and M3. They aren't worth the price. But one thing that makes me a little uncomfortable is you making fun of Zephyr's appearance since it has the same look as P1 Max, and who those don't know about Noble, they could think Noble stole the design idea from Tin Hifi. In fact, Zephyr was officially released a long time before P1 Max was. Just tryna clear things up a lit bit.
Can I ask a honest question. Why do people tolerate noble anymore? The k10, encore, and katana are so old and yet their new stuff isn't esoteric, its just insulting. The sultan makes me believe people just like a pillow over everything they listen.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez idk, those for wealthy enthusiasts. I've auditioned M3, Tux5, Khan, Sultan, Zephyr. They're all the average contenders in their price range. Nothing good and nothing bad. After the 2nd generation (K10, Katana, Encore), seems like The Wizard has lost his direction. Though hearing from the community, Kublai Khan and Viking Ragnar have received a lot of positive feedbacks. I've been waiting for chances to audition the new generation.
@ yea I guess. I will hear the rest of them at the Munich expo, so I'll see.
The price is actually the clever part, part of the Traillii's marketing strategy. If they were actually worth the price, only a few audiophiles would get them and rave them. Not good for sales.
On the other hand, there are people who have too much money to spend. The Traillii is their first and only step into the audiophile hobby, and they're probably going to like it,
well, I see the pick on p2 like a brilliance
Would you say there any kilobucks that are fairly priced? (maybe subject for another video lol)
Based on Timmy's ranking list: Diva, Gaea, and Monarch MK2.
Uh oh, the Vega 2020 broke Timmy.
v14 i have 0011 i think oof, also the timestamp for v14 is written as V
Ragnar upper mids and treble looked similar to final audio A3000. I was looking into those and now I think I'm convinced to buy a pair. Have you tried them?
I haven't tried A3000, but I didn't like the A4000 at all
@@Gizaudio I'm not surprised. Graph of a4000 looks sharp like an iron maiden. I watched currawong's video of them recently and he also didn't like a4000 but he said he wished a8000 had a3000's tuning.
Contrarian opinion: the A4000 is really good! Neutral with smooth sub bass. Do not judge on the graph. I’m treble sensitive and it sounds nothing like the graph. Check out some other yt reviews. Some do mention the treble but others do not. If it were chifi I would assume extreme unit variation but it’s Final Audio, so… If you like neutral with subtle, tickle your ears sub bass with one of the best soundstage in any iem under $1000, the A4000 may be for you.
Softears turii tii or headphone stax ???? :v
Oriolus charging 9k because they can really.
I find it very hard to justify spending over 2k on a single IEM.
Agree lol
that price is really insane.......
All the hype and under a minute on the oriolus trailli? 😂 it retails much less than $9000 now. And I thought the version has always been JP, just that the red and black faceplate is a US exclusive ?
The titanium is the silly priced one
Get the Focal with the gems tacked on.
Really How about the Noble Audio Sultan special Edition with Gold and Diamond ........
Which is the best dark sounded iem for under 30 dollars
KZ EDC.
@@wanaboed no kz please
@@aryanjohnsharma QKZ AK6 Max
@@wanaboed will look into it
Orioles have a similar graph to Oracle
Traillii shouldn't cost this much, not just in the sense of whether it deserves its price is given but the fact it seems to be so inflated in Japan.
Why do I even watch this right now? 9K LOL
Because you’re interested. We don’t need people posting on every video that they’re poor.
@@VaydaladaVodalada so your definition of being poor is that someone doesn't spend 9k on IEMs? LOL
@@SchwappSchwopp no, my definition of annoying is people who do this on every single video. We get it, you can’t afford anything. We don’t care.
@@VaydaladaVodalada I actually didn’t ever write that kind of comment until now and I also don’t see these that often. You should calm down how are you pissed by other peoples comments on such irrelevant stuff, this ain‘t politics dude :D
Demoing is enough for me with this one lol. 9k is.....insanity
And why exactly should I give a crap?
Umm no clue between JP and non JP version? Oh dear. There’s the titanium version but suggest clarifying your factual accuracy. That and the very short inpressuon
Is this the mystery IEM that tops your ranking list?
The Mystery iem is prototype iem from elysian that not release yet
Bruh 💀 I’m just trying to enjoy music. What are you trying to hear at this point for you to slap on a 9K pricetag for something’s that gonna be updated or replaced so soon in a market where new audiogears are released in a weekly or monthly basis???
The only point of this item is to make the others affordable 🥴
Remember IEMs are for musicians too not just audiophiles...
No thieaudio?! 🤣. Good video!
The Oriolus Traili is a superb IEM for the price. Easily the best value IEM of 2023. Amazing how cheap good audio is getting nowadays.
Better to create your own manufactur for making iem
He owns a casino. So the idea sounds very plausible if he really wants it
@@wanaboed My friend creates IEMs 20 to 40 of them and he works only at a restaurant average pay
@@ice_and_fire_audio is he selling the IEMs?
@@wanaboed yes hi fri is his name search him
when some hyping them out it sells like kfc, just paid some who want to do the job done & wait for orders come.
Depends on who are hyping them.
$9k USD …that in the audio game a starting point for components…but for an iem …that’s just Ef’g insane.