To be fair, this instance is probably a bunch of 0’s or 1’s at other end. When he zooms out of some of the lists, you can see the totals get pretty low.
Alec has these brief moments of brilliance at third (typically barehanded, he’s good at those sometimes) and then, like, two plays later he’s trapped in a hell not entirely of his making. God bless him.
@jomboy_ thanks for these deep dives!! As a stats + baseball guy, these are right up my alley. A few tips to improve your statistical analyses, from someone who does them from a living: 1) always ratio to attempts to normalize for volume 2) consider weighting errors/sloppy plays/scoops/etc differently, otherwise you’re inadvertently skewing towards a uniform distribution (think avg v OPS) 3) be mindful of arbitrary cut-off points. Why bottom 3 teams? Why top 3? Maybe use playoff v non-playoff, or some sort of “competitiveness” metric calculated off avg GB in the standings 4) if you have data quality concerns, I would really recommend understanding the limitations of your data before drawing conclusions
Out of all of them I feel like Bohm got it worst. There were some really tough plays in there that I feel like weren’t entirely his fault. Very interesting stuff though.
I hope you’re being ironic. GG is a terrible award, it doesn’t go to the best defender it goes to the most efficient defender. If you can only field balls hit within 3 ft of you but have 10 errors but another guy has 20 errors but can reach 3-4 times as many balls hit their direction who is the better defender? GG says first guy, your team record and outs above average will say the second guy. Gold glove is a fake award.
Hey Jimmy idk if it's something we have enough data on. But what about covering what outfielders are best/worst throwing out runners on sac flies and singles with RISP?
I think the metric has to be changed slightly to measure the worst or best players. There should also be a total play counter with a percentage of those plays that are deemed to be bad plays and good plays. Then you can see which infielder is regularly messing up the most per attempt rather than just a count.
His range is so good he gets to balls nobody else would ever get to but they wind up being super difficult plays to make. All things considered though I think Elly is a fantastic defensive shortstop, just my opinion 🤷
Chapman is probably on the list because he gives himself so many more chances to maybe make a play. He throws a lot of balls that are high on plays that most other 3B would have to eat the ball cuz they have no chance.
During your bottom 3 team experiment, the top 3 in the Nl would matter based on the by in the playoffs, milwaukee getting the bye over LA would be huge given thats what they are fighting for at this point.
Fun fact: there IS one situation in which the Official Scorer can assume a completed double play. If a fielder drops an accurate throw that would have otherwise completed a double or triple play, that player is charged with an error. This is the comment to Rule 9.12 (d). SCENARIO #1 Doyle on 1st. Fisk grounds to 2B Morgan, Morgan flips to SS Concepcion to put out Doyle. But Concepcion's throw skips the dirt in front of 1B Perez, who fails to scoop the ball. Fisk is safe at first. This is the standard "can't assume a double play" rule that even casual fans know [9.12(d)(3)] Fisk will be ruled as having reached first on a fielder's choice, Morgan gets an assist, Concepcion gets a putout, with no error charged. SCENARIO #2 Rose on 1st. Bench grounds to 3B Petrocelli, who throws to 2B Doyle to force out Rose. Doyle then turns and throws accurately to 1B Cooper in time to retire Bench. But Cooper drops the ball, and Bench is safe at first. In this case, Petrocelli gets an assist, Doyle gets both a putout (on Rose's out) and an assist (on the throw to first), while Cooper is charged with the error for the muffed throw. Oddly, in 24 years as an OS in professional baseball, I have yet to apply this rule. The dropped throw error is rare enough among the pros, to have it on the second half of a double play adds a much higher level of scarcity. And I'll bet there will be someone who chirps that I scored it wrong on the "you can't assume a double play" grounds, not knowing this exception.
Poor Gunnar had a case of the yips there in July/early August. He’s mostly gotten back to form but he was hard to watch for a stretch. And these clips aren’t even including when he slid into Mateo and broke his elbow…
Interesting to see the sloppy plays! Might be more informative to do (sloppy+errors)/inning to account for high volume players. Or have a net slop rating that somehow factors in great plays as well? Like you could have the sloppy plays against the plays that they make that you'd forgive them for not making? Can weight them so the sloppy ones hit harder since those can be absolute back breakers though.
Curious about who has watched the greatest number of third strikes go by this year, particularly with runners on base. Being truly anti-clutch demands a lot of at-bats, and would likely be somebody in near proximity to players having a decent season. Asking because every time I turn on the radio, I hear Dansby Swanson getting rung up looking.
I think the twins being bad against teams above .500 is like the story of the past 20 years as a twins fan. Constantly making the playoffs but never feeling like a really good team.
I tried doing the "Share", then "Copy Link", then opened an "incognito" window and began watching the video there. I then would do the same process but from the new video in the "incognito" browser. I repeated that about 10 times. I'm curious to know whether this genuinely does "juice" TH-cam's algorithmically-driven "feed" system.
Piggybacking on the Twins bad record against teams over .500, I would love to know whether Yankees-Twins all-time is one of if not the most lopsided series in MLB history.
But there would still be bad teams. What if you averaged all the other bottom division teams in baseball, and replace the records against them with those? I'm interested in what thet would do.
I think it'd be fairer if you dropped the bottom team in each division. If you drop one team from a division it disproportionately affects the division. Cool though!
Counting stats without context doesn't work when quantifying defence. Especially when it comes to something borderline subjective like errors. Also "no scoop" is one of the worst stats I've ever seen. What if a 1B gets wayyy worse throws compared to another? Especially someone like Vlad who has minor leaguers throwing to him, and he has to take throws from Bo who is maybe the worst infielder in all of baseball.
@Talkin' Baseball 27:30 if you look a the link there is '?si=' this is the code that connects the share link to a view. YT knows the whole path! they may actually be performing analysis on codes usage.
Yankees traded Urshela and kept Torres for multiple seasons hoping to recapture 2019 🤣 I swear that front office has more 🪄sugar🪄 than brain cells. As a Twins fan, I was celebrating and mocking celebrating Yankee's fans the moment Donaldson was traded and Yankee fans were celebrating, it was a glorious day, an absolute win if Carlos Correa wasn't involved. Edit: also yes, this year the Twins are the playoff pretenders that the Mariners fans (wrongly) accused them of being last year. They're a mess, but what do you expect from a front office that needed a reliable starting pitcher, got confused, and signed Carlos Santana instead? Glad to have Santana, but he was the wrong signing for that budget.
Jimmy is still clueless on the Twins. They've played 16 games all season with Buxton, Correa, and Lewis in the lineup together. Injuries have destroyed them this season. How would the Yankees look if judge and Soto were injured half the season. 😂
Dude I get that the white sox suck but can yall like spare my feelings just one time 😭😭😭😭😭😭 im in enough pain im a white sox fan and a florida state fan
You missed it Jimmy. Twins are 2-7 against Cleveland, but you checked their record against Kansas instead cause you’re a Cleveland erasure specialist 😂 we’ve done more damage to them than anyone else all year
It's stunningly impressive how much effort Jomboy puts at going out of his way to cherrypick the exact data to make Vladdy look bad. If you just look at how many scoops a 1B makes, he's 3rd in baseball (with fewer Innings at 1B than anyone else in the top7), but Jomboy finds the exact combination of plays to filter that make him look like the second-worst at it lol.
I shared exactly what I used to find the stats. All of these guys could also lead the league in best plays. I didn’t cherry pick against any individual player. The results were the results
I liked baseball before metrics, marketing, and sucky commentators. We hear field interviews and stories about their kids while the game continues. Don't get me started on the clownish uniforms and eye-black face makeup. The respect for baseball and its traditions disappeared fast.
It's very odd how many bots there are as soon as the video got uploaded. What are the odds that JM are adding bots to their comment sections to boost their engagement/performance in the algorithm?
@@asdfaeou I always do too! It could be (and likely is) indicative of a larger problem with bots on the platform. I'm just surprised because I never see this many bots immediately on uploads from channels of this size.
@@SO-if3yn Because Jomboy crafts the exact stat to make Vladdy look as bad as possible? He's 3rd in the MLB in scoops (with less innings than anyone else near the top), but Jomboy cherrypicks the exact combination of plays to filter that makes him look like the 2nd-worst at it.
Whenever we have a "worst of" give us 10 seconds of the "best of" on those same lists please!
No. Embrace the darkness
@@zac461 monster
To be fair, this instance is probably a bunch of 0’s or 1’s at other end. When he zooms out of some of the lists, you can see the totals get pretty low.
Yes, as a Yankee fan, yes. I would like to see what a good infielder looks like lol
@@benkelly7499 sure, which is why I said 10 seconds :)
Alec has these brief moments of brilliance at third (typically barehanded, he’s good at those sometimes) and then, like, two plays later he’s trapped in a hell not entirely of his making. God bless him.
@jomboy_ thanks for these deep dives!! As a stats + baseball guy, these are right up my alley. A few tips to improve your statistical analyses, from someone who does them from a living:
1) always ratio to attempts to normalize for volume
2) consider weighting errors/sloppy plays/scoops/etc differently, otherwise you’re inadvertently skewing towards a uniform distribution (think avg v OPS)
3) be mindful of arbitrary cut-off points. Why bottom 3 teams? Why top 3? Maybe use playoff v non-playoff, or some sort of “competitiveness” metric calculated off avg GB in the standings
4) if you have data quality concerns, I would really recommend understanding the limitations of your data before drawing conclusions
You got any yt channel recommendations lol
Would be interested to see sloppy plays/ inning or something similar so it’s not punishing everyday players
This is why rate stats are important - Are Gunnar and Elly really the sloppiest shortstops, or do they just play every day?
Great point
Good point. Vladdy also comes to mind as a 162-game player from these lists.
Kim plays everyday and he’s nowhere near the top of the worst and does cronenworth at first
marcus semien i think has 1 day off only 2 errors
@@kojhuj cool man semien is really good
This video feels like Jimmy's counter to Boone about Gleyber lmao
Dude I was absolutely thinking the same thing
Out of all of them I feel like Bohm got it worst. There were some really tough plays in there that I feel like weren’t entirely his fault. Very interesting stuff though.
That WBC Realmuto was the best catcher card I’ve used since and before then lol.
"what if the White Sox didn't exist?" I think many people in Chicago, and beyond, have been contemplating that question.
You can tell Jomboy doesn't know much about the Jays because some of Guerrero errors this season were as a third baseman.
Gold glove winner Vladdy
I hope you’re being ironic. GG is a terrible award, it doesn’t go to the best defender it goes to the most efficient defender. If you can only field balls hit within 3 ft of you but have 10 errors but another guy has 20 errors but can reach 3-4 times as many balls hit their direction who is the better defender? GG says first guy, your team record and outs above average will say the second guy. Gold glove is a fake award.
JEEZE these bots love baseball!
I bet they can’t even hit a 80 mph fastball though smh
Lol
Re: first section - Probably would be more useful to put the counting stat against the total opportunities to get a percentage
Honestly feeling so much better about CJ Abrams now
Hey Jimmy idk if it's something we have enough data on. But what about covering what outfielders are best/worst throwing out runners on sac flies and singles with RISP?
11:20 😅as I Phillies fan,I remember that play. That was a bad look
Gunnar always circling balls to his right instead of back handing anything. He was very good in the first half but it’s become a problem
"Imagine the scorekeeper was a dick." 😂
I think the metric has to be changed slightly to measure the worst or best players. There should also be a total play counter with a percentage of those plays that are deemed to be bad plays and good plays. Then you can see which infielder is regularly messing up the most per attempt rather than just a count.
Elly leading in errors but also third in OAA
His range is so good he gets to balls nobody else would ever get to but they wind up being super difficult plays to make. All things considered though I think Elly is a fantastic defensive shortstop, just my opinion 🤷
Should also divide by games played...Gunnar plays every game.
How do you access this on inside edge?
Can someone explain how Diaz at first base has NINE errors but only one "poor play"? Maybe I'm misunderstanding here?
Chapman is probably on the list because he gives himself so many more chances to maybe make a play. He throws a lot of balls that are high on plays that most other 3B would have to eat the ball cuz they have no chance.
No padre player even close. Cronenworth and Machado on the corners is peace of mind for all of us padre fans
During your bottom 3 team experiment, the top 3 in the Nl would matter based on the by in the playoffs, milwaukee getting the bye over LA would be huge given thats what they are fighting for at this point.
Fun fact: there IS one situation in which the Official Scorer can assume a completed double play. If a fielder drops an accurate throw that would have otherwise completed a double or triple play, that player is charged with an error. This is the comment to Rule 9.12 (d).
SCENARIO #1
Doyle on 1st. Fisk grounds to 2B Morgan, Morgan flips to SS Concepcion to put out Doyle. But Concepcion's throw skips the dirt in front of 1B Perez, who fails to scoop the ball. Fisk is safe at first. This is the standard "can't assume a double play" rule that even casual fans know [9.12(d)(3)] Fisk will be ruled as having reached first on a fielder's choice, Morgan gets an assist, Concepcion gets a putout, with no error charged.
SCENARIO #2
Rose on 1st. Bench grounds to 3B Petrocelli, who throws to 2B Doyle to force out Rose. Doyle then turns and throws accurately to 1B Cooper in time to retire Bench. But Cooper drops the ball, and Bench is safe at first. In this case, Petrocelli gets an assist, Doyle gets both a putout (on Rose's out) and an assist (on the throw to first), while Cooper is charged with the error for the muffed throw.
Oddly, in 24 years as an OS in professional baseball, I have yet to apply this rule. The dropped throw error is rare enough among the pros, to have it on the second half of a double play adds a much higher level of scarcity. And I'll bet there will be someone who chirps that I scored it wrong on the "you can't assume a double play" grounds, not knowing this exception.
6:24 "Alright I gotta get out of here... Making me-" ... Making you what, Jimmy?!
Eye test has told me Pete should be top of the first baseman’s list….I like this info tho pretty cool
The dark Arizona jersey mixed with them playing Seattle made me think that was a clip from last year
How fitting this came out after the Talkin Yanks recent episode,
Poor Gunnar had a case of the yips there in July/early August. He’s mostly gotten back to form but he was hard to watch for a stretch.
And these clips aren’t even including when he slid into Mateo and broke his elbow…
I copied the link! Best of luck to you, Jimmy
Bad teams always exist. They may change from year to year, but those are the teams that you are supposed to beat.
Interesting to see the sloppy plays! Might be more informative to do (sloppy+errors)/inning to account for high volume players. Or have a net slop rating that somehow factors in great plays as well? Like you could have the sloppy plays against the plays that they make that you'd forgive them for not making? Can weight them so the sloppy ones hit harder since those can be absolute back breakers though.
Very surprised to see Chapman 3rd @ 3rd. He routinely makes unbelievable plays, so I think he will force things at times?
Curious about who has watched the greatest number of third strikes go by this year, particularly with runners on base. Being truly anti-clutch demands a lot of at-bats, and would likely be somebody in near proximity to players having a decent season. Asking because every time I turn on the radio, I hear Dansby Swanson getting rung up looking.
I think the twins being bad against teams above .500 is like the story of the past 20 years as a twins fan. Constantly making the playoffs but never feeling like a really good team.
I tried doing the "Share", then "Copy Link", then opened an "incognito" window and began watching the video there. I then would do the same process but from the new video in the "incognito" browser. I repeated that about 10 times. I'm curious to know whether this genuinely does "juice" TH-cam's algorithmically-driven "feed" system.
More of theseee
Talkin' Baseball, great content it was really good
Piggybacking on the Twins bad record against teams over .500, I would love to know whether Yankees-Twins all-time is one of if not the most lopsided series in MLB history.
Not surprised about Gleyber watching him everyday
Gunnar is too agressive. Makes amazing plays but also killed Jorge Mateo.
Who was the sloppiest catcher?
If we got rid of the Rockies, Padres would be the most dominant team in the NL west by a wide margin
But there would still be bad teams. What if you averaged all the other bottom division teams in baseball, and replace the records against them with those? I'm interested in what thet would do.
Range Factor and DRS are still much better tools to determine defence.
Should've looked at the Twins last 20. That skews with àll their injuries.
Feel like these numbers should be divided by the number of innings played at the position
I think it'd be fairer if you dropped the bottom team in each division. If you drop one team from a division it disproportionately affects the division. Cool though!
Luis urias on the list for 3b while spending 5+ months in aaa is very on brand
Torres the Slop God
Trying the copy link
Ain't this supposed to be an audio podcast primarily? Most video heavy one yet
Why so few 3B on the list. I am sure you got the top of the list right, but to not see Machado even lower on the list is odd.
ayyy show that catcher sheet
To be fair to Vlad, I'm pretty sure he has had the most throws that he's had to scoop or one hop. Their infielders are awful throwing to first.
Lolol this first topic after the Boonie interview is great
The Twins feel more like a 3 games below .500 team as of late.
Counting stats without context doesn't work when quantifying defence. Especially when it comes to something borderline subjective like errors. Also "no scoop" is one of the worst stats I've ever seen. What if a 1B gets wayyy worse throws compared to another? Especially someone like Vlad who has minor leaguers throwing to him, and he has to take throws from Bo who is maybe the worst infielder in all of baseball.
Vladdys a gold glover at first too
"What if the White Sox didn't exist" I think the Sox wish they didn't exist right now.
@Talkin' Baseball 27:30 if you look a the link there is '?si=' this is the code that connects the share link to a view. YT knows the whole path! they may actually be performing analysis on codes usage.
th-cam.com/video/KpY76z8QXkU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=OdL9E1_XBX1UMa6j
Yankees traded Urshela and kept Torres for multiple seasons hoping to recapture 2019 🤣 I swear that front office has more 🪄sugar🪄 than brain cells. As a Twins fan, I was celebrating and mocking celebrating Yankee's fans the moment Donaldson was traded and Yankee fans were celebrating, it was a glorious day, an absolute win if Carlos Correa wasn't involved.
Edit: also yes, this year the Twins are the playoff pretenders that the Mariners fans (wrongly) accused them of being last year. They're a mess, but what do you expect from a front office that needed a reliable starting pitcher, got confused, and signed Carlos Santana instead? Glad to have Santana, but he was the wrong signing for that budget.
the entire Yankees defense
Why not just look at strength of schedule or strength of wins and compare that to playoff success?
The poor play stat is excellent.
Yeah but your boy Volpe has the 6th highest OAA in the league. Bizarre
"Shared."
mets players consistently at the bottom of these lists🤟🏻🤟🏻LFGM
Tested
Someone send this to Boone
Shared & Copied ✔
Jimmy is still clueless on the Twins. They've played 16 games all season with Buxton, Correa, and Lewis in the lineup together. Injuries have destroyed them this season. How would the Yankees look if judge and Soto were injured half the season. 😂
Dude I get that the white sox suck but can yall like spare my feelings just one time 😭😭😭😭😭😭 im in enough pain im a white sox fan and a florida state fan
I did the thing ,👍
Hit share and copy
Did you skip Paredes so it wouldnt be an all AL East infield?
Dude, love you. Please don’t use Jesus Christ as a curse word. IM DOWN WITH ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
Padres
Link copied.
I copied the link
Share and copied link.. let the test begin.
🤝🏽
You missed it Jimmy. Twins are 2-7 against Cleveland, but you checked their record against Kansas instead cause you’re a Cleveland erasure specialist 😂 we’ve done more damage to them than anyone else all year
My God it kept bothering me on my algorithm. Idc
It's stunningly impressive how much effort Jomboy puts at going out of his way to cherrypick the exact data to make Vladdy look bad. If you just look at how many scoops a 1B makes, he's 3rd in baseball (with fewer Innings at 1B than anyone else in the top7), but Jomboy finds the exact combination of plays to filter that make him look like the second-worst at it lol.
I shared exactly what I used to find the stats. All of these guys could also lead the league in best plays. I didn’t cherry pick against any individual player. The results were the results
For the algo
I liked baseball before metrics, marketing, and sucky commentators. We hear field interviews and stories about their kids while the game continues. Don't get me started on the clownish uniforms and eye-black face makeup. The respect for baseball and its traditions disappeared fast.
It's very odd how many bots there are as soon as the video got uploaded.
What are the odds that JM are adding bots to their comment sections to boost their engagement/performance in the algorithm?
Well, considering I go through and permanently ban said bots a few minutes later each time, I'd say that would be pretty counter intuitive.
@@asdfaeou I always do too! It could be (and likely is) indicative of a larger problem with bots on the platform.
I'm just surprised because I never see this many bots immediately on uploads from channels of this size.
What’s up with the bots. Is Jomboy media buying views
You hear that Canada? Vlad didn’t deserve his Gold glove.
Didn't realize his play this year effects his 2022 stats.
@@Jmart96 effect, and you know that was a controversial one. Theres a few videos calling possible BS. Be well.
@@SO-if3yn Because Jomboy crafts the exact stat to make Vladdy look as bad as possible? He's 3rd in the MLB in scoops (with less innings than anyone else near the top), but Jomboy cherrypicks the exact combination of plays to filter that makes him look like the 2nd-worst at it.
@@SO-if3yn And yet that has nothing to do with this video. But keep on looking for excuses to hate on Vlad I suppose
Derek Jeter won five gold gloves. Everybody knows he didn't deserve even one of them.
Just here to confirm my 'press share and copy link'
Links been copied 🫡💙