And a lot of these lines were actually taken from real baseball meetings! The line, "Ugly girlfriend means no confidence" actually happened but the real line was "Ugly girlfriend means bad eyesight" and they changed it because the real line was considered too crazy to believe.
"He hit a home run and he didn't even realize it." This film actually changed my life. Specifically the scene when Peter shows Billy the footage of the guy hitting the home run and not knowing it. At the time, I was living in Oregon. I had moved there and it was my first time living on my own away from home. I was trying something totally different and taking a chance. I lived there for over a year and I liked it a lot there but, for several reasons, it wasn't working out. I wanted to leave Oregon but I was afraid that by doing so I would be giving up. I was afraid of being seen as a failure and feeling like a failure. I felt I didn't succeed in my hopes and goals. But then I saw Moneyball and I decided to move and I saw everything in all that in a different way. The film made me realize that I had done something I had never done and I had changed and grown a lot. It was not a failure but a victory. Like Billy in the film, I had hit a home run and didn't realize it. And I felt pride and satisfaction in that journey in my life . And this film made me see that. I've seen many films in my life but Moneyball is up there with the ones that had the most impact on me.
I was a promising rugby player for awhile but usually in a utility role as a forward. Involved in working with a captain & vc in setting up tries but rarely if ever scoring one myself. I had that sensation once in club grand final which contributed to our win which was a margin of 3 points. I helped set the play & the line break, then somehow ended up with the ball, punched through a depleted backline & got the ball down with 10mins to go. I've seen video of it but to be honest I don't even remember those 30 seconds of play. I remember more tries where someone else scored & I just managed a satisfied smile. When you're rarely in the spotlight, the moment you are it is a bizarre & fleeting moment.
My favorite movie of all time. I understand your passion for it. I appreciate/envy the concept of someone risking going all the way with an idea that they really believe in when no one else does and are actively criticizing you.
The Hatteberg home run happened just as the film showed. That almost too perfect timing of Billy offering him the contract at Christmas time was accurate, too-it happened on December 22nd. He played in the majors until mid-season 2008. He still works for the front office in Oakland.
I'm pretty sure they spliced in actual game footage into that scene in the movie. I know the entire game is played out exactly, the errors, the comeback by KC. A lot of people watched that game nationally, they had to get the details right
@@cartwright77 Honestly one of my all-time favorite baseball moments. Your "Miami Miracle" with Gronk looking like a newborn giraffe on defense is up there too. 👍👍
"I hate loosing even more than I want to win." There is a whole psychology behind this idea. Some people hate loosing and other people love winning. It sounds ridiculous but they are very different things. The two personality types are historically better in different roles/professions. For example professional poker players who love winning more than they hate loosing tend to take too many chances and go bust. I found it really cool that they threw that into this movie.
"They don't love to win." "They Don't hate to lose." That's a direct line from the mini series Shorsey. When he's explaining to the owner why her team is so shit, and isn't even willing to fight out on the ice; he explains it perfectly to her. "They don't want it.".
Billy's reaction to that line is the best. But even better was when Hattie asks "What about the fans?" And Wash says "Yeah, maybe we can teach one of them."
@@clevelandcbi That's the line! Yes. Kills me every time. The fact Brad starts talking to the gut again, stops, turns, just to validate that jab, it doesn't even seem like acting it's that good.
He had a hell of a year as an actor in 2011. Tree Of Life and Moneyball, two incredible performances from Brad, and stylistically totally different. Impeccable performances, you cannot spot that guy acting in those two. Like you said, his line deliveries are perfection. (Philip Seymour Hoffman, too. That guy had every baseball coach mannerism I've ever seen. One minute he's playing Capote, or Scottie from Boogie Nights, or the rich kid in "Talented Mr. Ripley".....next he's doing this. What a friggin' loss. Him and Heath Ledger, what a friggin' waste of talent.
Not sure if you realized but this movie was written by Aaron Sorkin who is famous for writing films like A Few Good Men, The Social Network, Molly's Game and Steve Jobs, TV series like The West Wing, Sportsnight and The Newsroom and Theatre like the new adapted version of To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway and in London. He was originally brought in by Spielberg to help do a re-write of Schindler's List. One of the great writers today.
I love "smart" movies based around numbers like this. My favorite is The Big Short about the housing crisis of 2008. The cast is insane and it actually made me fascinated with mortgage bonds. Or if you want to stick with baseball, no one has reacted to Keanu Reeves in Hardball yet.
If you're interested in the housing crisis of 2008. I would urge you to watch these films/videos as a six part epic miniseries! 1. Margin Call: The Banking Side 2. The Big Short: The Investors Side 3. Too Big To Fail: The Governments Side 4. Ron Paul speech on the House Floor 2003: The Nostradamus Side 5. Peter Schiff speech to Mortgage Bankers 2006 : The Cassandra Side 6. Tom Woods Meltdown Lecture Boulder Colorado: The Austrian Economic Side
To your question: Major league baseball is the only major sport in North America without a hard salary cap to this day. And the player's union has been steadfast on that, MLB would basically have to implode in order to get around the player's union.
Especially now. The MLBPA is exceptionally well-capitalized since they were awarded $3 billion in damages after successfully suing the league for collusion relating to the 1994 work stoppage.
Big Blue Jays fan here. Some answers for your questions. -Yes, Hatteberg did have that particular home run to win the 20th game in a row. -There is no hard salary cap in MLB. Teams with a payroll higher than a set amount pay a luxury tax, which is divided between all the teams below the luxury tax line. -Analytics are taken very seriously now in both MLB and the other sport I watch (NHL). -Biy Beane is no longer the GM for the Athletics but is still involve in the organization. A difference from reality and the movie: Art Howe was actually fairly supportive of Billy’s approach. He knew damn well that it was Oakland’s only hope at the post season.
This is based on Michael Lewis’ book of the same name. It is considered not only one of the best books written about baseball. But one of the most insightful books on business ever written. It took awhile to figure out how to adapt it into a movie. But this movie does it brilliantly.
"Check your reports or I'm gonna point at Pete." Great line. I'm an engineer, and this film appeals to me on so many levels. (I played almost a decade of baseball and spent years learning math.)
Fantastic video, Daniel & Samantha. _Moneyball_ is one of my favorite films for a couple of the reasons you caught. The Billy Beane story could take place in any industry resistant to change, but the more specific it is to baseball, the more relatable it ends up being. It's also a minor miracle this film got made: no special effects, no love interest, no triumphant ending. I don't even think Netflix would want it today.
Good lord, Aaron Sorkin could write a script based on insurance actuarial tables and it would be RIVETING. When you add a cast like this and performances like this you repeatedly get the most memorable and entertaining movies made in our lifetimes.
There's a reason why they call Sorkin "The Modern Shakespeare". His writing really pulls the curtain back and shows you an actor's worth, because not everyone can pull off his dialogue.
One of my favorites and I stumbled upon this gem while scrolling to find something to watch. I have watched it so many times and it's still holds up especially being a true story.
As with all hollywood movies based on true events, there were certain embellishments that were exaggerated from real life, the biggest of which was probably Art the manager, in real life he is a perfectly lovely dude who by all accounts was a delight to work with, but the movie needed a villain so they made it him. As for the facts of the events though, those are all accurate. I'd highly encourage you to check out the clip on youtube of the real life Scott Hatteberg hitting the walk off homerun for the 20th win, the real thing is just as great as it is in the movie. Also Billy Beane is still with the Oakland A's today though he is now the executive VP and no longer the GM. He also OWNS a decent sized % of the A's so in the end he came out with waaaaaay more money by staying in Oakland than he would have ever gotten in Boston. Great reaction guys this was really enjoyable!
One of my favorite sports movies EVER!!! Mostly because of what happens after the movie ends. The Angels beat the Twins (the team that knocked out the A's) in the AL Championship, then they beat the San Francisco Giants to win the 2002 World Series! Obviously i'm a lifelong Angels fan! That being said....excellent performances by the entire cast!!!
The coach, Wash, is Ron Washington, who went on to manage the Texas Rangers to 2 World Series appearances (though they lost both). He won the world series in 2021 as the 3rd base coach for the Atlanta Braves.
Not sure if mentioned... Pete as depicted in the movie was actually a combination of 2 guys in real life... I really love this film... in my Top 5 baseball films.
I really love that they used This Will Destroy You's "The Mighty Rio Grande" in the trailers for this film. Can't remember if it was in the actual film but was glad to hear some post rock getting included. Edit: oh they did use it at the 6:00 min mark
This really is a great movie, one of my favorites. What memory most attaches me is mentioned at the end. I was born and raised in rural centrat MA. For most of my life I had the fatalism typical of many long term Red Sox fans. I had long since moved away, but I happened to be in Worcester MA for a high school reunion when they finally made the run that ended the Curse of the Bambino.
There is no cap in baseball. There is a luxury tax, so if you spend over a certain amount you have to pay a tax on it. But generally, bigger markets have more money to spend. Bigger markets make more sales so they have more money. The Yankees were infamous for their big spending for a long time. But recently there’s been more teams that are big spenders. But markets like Oakland, Kansas City, and Cincinnati never have big payrolls. Deep pockets do not always correlate to success though. The Los Angeles Angels have been bad for a long time. The New York Mets were bad for a long time. Both the Chicago Cubs and White Sox are rarely good.
This film always reminds me of when hospitals tried to switch to a 3-question algorithm (it was the nineties, so it was basically just a checklist) instead of the educated guess of doctors when it came to predicting which patients coming in with chest pains were in danger of a heart attack. The checklist was much more accurate - both in predicting which patients weren't actually having a heart attack and in assigning the ones with major complications to the correct medical unit - but the doctors balked at using it because they felt their instincts were better suited for the job, despite evidence to the contrary. People tend to value their instincts way too highly, even though it takes all sorts of irrelevant info (like prejudices etc.) into account which quite often skews their final opinion.
I recommend this movie to anyone that'll listen to me, even put up with the obligatory "I'm not into sports". Neither am I. After my fifteenth or sixteenth watch I just lost track of how many times I've watched this gem. I't just one of those more than the sum of it's parts kind of thing. Thanks for a great watchalong!
The real life Art Howe(PSH character) was very against how the movie portrayed him. Billy and Art were on good terms and worked together to help make their team play the best ball possible
Billy Beane actually was part of two world series rosters, with the Twins in 1987 and the Oakland As in 1989, in both teams he was a defensive replacement, while having a miserable career at the bat, he was a complete superstar on defense, making highlight reel plays. The problem was that Beane just could not bat. Also the 2001 Twins had a roster nearly a lowly paid as the Oakland A's.
Brilliant movie. The writing, directing and attention to detail is incredible. And every actor absolutely knocks it out of the park. Thanks for the reaction guys!
Glad you both liked the movie. True story. My friends and I are big A’s fans and remember that season well. When they filmed the movie at the Oakland Coliseum my friends and I got to be extras as part of the crowd in the stands. The call went out to A’s fans who wanted to be part of the movie and we showed up. We filmed for several days but all at night after 10pm. Sadly, today the A’s are still a small market team and the current ownership is seriously considering moving the A’s out of Oakland after several bad seasons and financial losses. They’ve been rumored to be seriously considering Las Vegas. I hope they stay and build a new stadium in a different location in Oakland but that’s not looking good.
@@user-ko8qx3db5g I agree. They've also made some seriously bad moves/trades the last decade. My Indians have a cheap owner, but the GM has hit home runs only the last few years. Almost every perceived "bad" trade has ended up in our favor, most being lopsided, in fact. I hate seeing Oakland leave, but I also think the time has come.
Of those, the original version of "The Longest Yard", absolutely. All of those are good but "Longest Yard" would be my pick. (The original, not the lame remake)
I was glad to see you guys watch this movie. I was working in baseball at the time that this happened, and those few years before and after changed the game significantly. Most teams have analytics departments now, and the advantage of the way the A's were evaluating has evaporated. Hatteberg was not a surprise to one group of people: fantasy baseball players. I had a friend that had Hatteberg on his team, and he was HUGE in the mid 90s in that regard. Teams that _don't_ spend on analytics lag behind and tend to make a lot more wrong moves for players. The Rockies are the prime example, spending their money in all the wrong places. Thanks for the great video!
I worked in MiLB for a few years around this time as well. It all makes for a very entertaining story. And, like horse betting, it really draws in the nerds. Of course, it's efficacy is greatly exaggerated. The A's were successful because they drafted some of the top starting pitchers in the draft - not because they found guys who - in the right situation - might earn a walk against a left-handed Dominican with a slight lisp. 🤣
Jeremy Giambi, the player (not the actor) who was dancing in the locker room after losing a game, passed away last year. When I heard the news, this movie came to my mind. That was how I knew that such a person existed.
Some of the scouts in the meetings were character actors and some were baseball guys. Ken Medlock, who played the head scout Grady, was a long-time baseball player and coach and then shifted to acting. One of the other scouts in that meeting was Barry Moss. Barry played in the minor leagues for years and then got into coaching. He was once a manager for a minor league team, Salt Lake Trappers, owned in part by the Murray brothers - Bill and Brian-Doyle.
I can reach with Daniel's story at the dentist. I was watching ''Master and Commander'' in the chair when the dentist returned to check on the freezing. ''Um, can you come back in about two hours?'' I asked and she was laughing a lot. I like the Moneyball film too but I think the Expos were using that strategy (value for money) first.
The major effect on baseball from this movie was that the proverbial cat was out of the bag. Virtually every World Series winner since that year has been based on the Billy Beane/Bill James model. Instantly, the Athletics were back in a disadvantaged position relative to the rest of Major League Baseball. The disparity in team payrolls generally correlates less with how wealthy the owner is than how much he’s willing to invest in the ball club. Naturally, this is a source of incredible frustration for fans of teams that run sub-par payrolls.
Sorta kinda. Billy Beane was still able to field an occasional winner. Because despite everyone else becoming smarter, there were still undervalued players slipping through the cracks. You also have to consider that some teams took what Billy Beane did, but progressed it significantly further in order to compete. Prime example being the Rays. They do the most advanced form of moneyball in the current game, and they still find their way in the playoffs nearly every season.
Some great performances in this movie. This movie is Chris Pratt right between Parks and Rec and Guardians of the Galaxy. Before he was a leading-man action hero in GOTG and Jurassic World, and he portrays this vulnerable, nervous kind of guy so well. It's also great to see Jonah Hill in a non-comedic role. You can tell he's having a lot of fun with it.
I watched the shit out of this movie when it came out. But this movie REALLY shows the ins and outs of baseball, like what goes on when looking for your next player, or how a player doesn't pan out in baseball.
Yes, they changed the game forever! The game today is based so much on analytics that people openly complain about it. Baseball has changed from a fun American past-time to a chess game. Teams now have entire departments that do nothing but analytics. Recent changes such as the pitch clock and the banning of switching defensive players all to one side of the infield have been implemented to attempt to bring back some of the old mystic and fun and to make the games more exciting. We will see.
Moneyball is based on the book of the same name by Michael Lewis. The tone of the book is very different from the movie. It's a work of journalism, for one thing, not a piece of storytelling. It's been said (accurately, I think) that's it's really more a book about business than baseball. It's a good movie as long as you don't expect it to represent reality. While it's true that the A's didn't have as much money as a lot of other teams, they didn't make the players buy their own sodas. They didn't get an analyst in a trade (players can be traded, but regular employees can't be). And, perhaps most importantly, Art Howe was not a jerk. He got along quite well with Billy Beane (and everyone else on the team), and he never had a problem with Beane's management philosophy. It's another case of Hollywood needing an antagonist. Art Howe was actually offended by how he was portrayed. The movie also focused on a few players and ignored others. The Big Three (starting pitchers Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson) had a lot to do with the A's success in the 2002 season, yet they're pretty much invisible in the movie. But the basic idea is correct. The A's were successful because they found value in players that other teams ignored. In a sense, they were doing player arbitrage. Michael Lewis was interested in it because he had a business background. His first book was Liar's Poker, about his experiences as a stock broker. Also, the A's really did win 20 consecutive games, and Scott Hatteberg really did hit a walk-off homer in the last game. I attended games 3, 18, and 20 of the streak. BTW, as great as Jason Giambi was, his brother Jeremy was, let's say, a problem. I've been an A's fan for decades, and I saw him make so many mental errors on the field that he drove me nuts. He lasted in the majors only one more season after the A's traded him to Philadelphia.
The funny thing about the whole notion of "The A's have a small budget" or ""We have no money" is they actually do have money. Their owners are loaded af but still choose to be cheap skates.
I always wanted to watch this but never got round to it but soon as I saw it on your schedule, I had to finally track it down and watch it before watching the reaction (hear that Hollywood, reaction channels promote your products and make you money). American Sports movie don't always translate well into money or views outside the US but this one did, I think it has actor pedigree and it can easily be understood even with little knowledge of baseball, it's a good movie. Another reason I wanted to see it is that Billy Beane became one of the owners of my local football team Barnsley FC, a few years ago, so that was a point of interest. I love the light trolling from your editor here too. ;)
Three movies leap to mind about the power of math. One is Hidden Figures, about math geniuses helping Project Mercury before computers took over everything. There are two movies about high finance who make the subject relatable. One is The Big Short, which is a ton of fun. Another is Margin Call, which among other things is a master class of acting. I find all three to be addictively watchable. I hope you'll consider them.
I love this movie as a baseball fan. It helped me understand analytics in sports and why it should be embraced more. My favorite team, the Atlanta Braves, finally started embracing analytics a few years ago and now they're the best teams in baseball.
This is a prime example of the fact that one should never dismiss a movie based on its subject matter. I have no interest in Baseball at all, let alone the economics of it, yet this is great, captivating filmmaking.
I love this movie! The one thing that never comes up in this movie, is that team had Chavez, Tejada, Kotch, Hudson, Zito, and Mulder. The team had three legit aces.
Money will always be a major factor.. in the long run. It not only pays for the big stars but also a strong bench, strong bullpen, solid starting rotation, free agents..
Great reactions to a true story. I was there. My best friend and I had a weekend and holiday season ticket package and we were there for most of the games in that winning streak.
The guy Billie Bean (Brad Pitt) talks to at the beginning, the co-owner of the Athletics, is portrayed by Bobby Kotick, the real life CEO of Activision - Blizzard.
If you ever get around to watching "Hoosiers," I can send you both shirts from the actual gym that served as Hickory's home court. I live 15 seconds from it and have shot baskets there 100 times, at least. Even rented it 3x for my son and daughter's birthdays.
I love this film. Travelled to Malaysia this week on a 13 hour flight and was delighted that this was available to watch, could easily have watched it a few times if my kids would have left me alone!
If you want another film that has an insider's view of how sports management works, watch Draft Day with Kevin Costner. It's about the general manager of the Cleveland Browns dealing with the NFL draft.
As you guys are quite familiar with the UK, you'll know we're football (soccer) mad over here. Red sox owner John W. Henry portrayed near the end of the movie, bought my football team Liverpool fc back in 2010 for £300m. It's been a slow and steady climb back to winning ways using an adaptation of the moneyball system. 14 cup finals, 8 trophies, runner-up 3 times in the league and 1 league championship in 13 years We're valued now at circa £3.7 billion.
I'm a Twins fan, I have very fond memories of that As-Twins playoff series. I was also at the Twins-As game where the As were going for win #21 and they finally lost. It's not really shown in the movie, but the As had awesome starting pitching. Hudson, Zito and Mulder were probably in the top 2-3 rotations in baseball. The analytics vs old school portrayed here is very simplified, Billy Beane and the As definitely were pioneers, but their philosophy spread very quickly. As much as the old-school scout vs. spreadsheet/numbers guy stereotype portrayed, the reality is that all teams rely on scouts and advanced analytics. Analytics informs scouting, but it certainly doesn't replace it. The best teams are good at identifying and acquiring players that need further development. Nowadays, the basically all teams are using high-speed cameras to track the movement and spin rates of pitches and breaking down the biomechanics of players pitches and swing. It's very different from the spreadsheets vs. scouts, but it relies on both math whizzes and guys who have been watching baseball their whole lives. There is still a huge discrepancy in payrolls across the MLB, but outside of the top spending teams it's largely by choice. The Mets this year are spending $334 million on their payroll. The As are spending $56 million. The As will never spend like the Yankees, Dodgers or Mets, but they're payroll is mostly by choice, they're tanking this year and they're owner is widely regarded as cheap. There are structural disadvantages for small market teams, but the discrepancy is this significant because they are choosing not to spend. The median payroll is twice as much as the As are spending currently. The As get around $100 million (if not more) each year from TV deals and that's before anything else.
I'm English, haven't really a clue about baseball, except that it lies deep in the heart and soul of what America is for a lot of people. I saw some games at the Toronto Blue Jays stadium, what a spectacle! But this is a wonderful film, but then look at the screenwriters Aaron Sorkin and Steve Zaillian, two giants of movies with Brad Pitt playing the little guy no one would believe in a giant role. (I believe the script was rejected and lost until Pitt revived it, he believed in it like Beane believed) There's a few screenwriting coaches who regard this as one of their favourite movies and it's not an 'up' ending, yet Beane turned down the money, he went for his soul, thats what mattered despite all the money and algorithims, he had a big heart and changed the game forever.
From the East Bay. Born in Walnut Creek grew up in Lafayette about 15 to 20 minutes from Oakland. My family and I are all big A's, Raiders, and Warriors fans. Actually, went to a couple of games that season when they won 20 in a row
Great film, especially in how it takes a very (theoretically) boring subject of math and baseball and makes it interesting, exciting. Great freaking writing.
As my friends and I say whenever this movie comes up in conversation..."fuck, this movie SLAPS!!" So good, riveting, and well acted. Hell, this was the peak of my baseball watching days and I remember watching this play out...from Boston...and the anticipation we had about possibly landing Billy Beane was palpable in the city. Ultimately, he turned them down and they went with Theo Epstein, and ALSO hired Bill James (the guy they talk about who figured this out) as a consultant. Two years later, we had the biggest comeback in baseball history against the Yankees to make it to the World Series and won, finally breaking that drought or "curse" as everyone called it. Fun fact: Theo Epstein has basically punched his ticket to Cooperstown (the Baseball Hall of Fame for anyone who doesn't know, located in Cooperstown, NY) because not only was he the GM of the Red Sox who engineered a team that broke that curse, but he was also the GM of the Cubs when they broke their own, much LONGER curse/drought back in 2015 or 16. He may very well go down as the greatest GM in history for those moments...although he's also had some real stinkers for teams over the years.
Great movie. It's only flaw it never mentioned once the main reason they won 103 games. The trio of starting pitcher's of Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson, won 57 games, threw 677 innings, and had a combined E.R.A. under 3.00. Zito went 23-5, with an E.R.A. of 2.75, and won the Cy Young - could've mentioned him at least once.
In contrast to this movie, I also recommend, Trouble with the Curve, with Amy Adams and Clint Eastwood. It actually promotes the old scout way of doing things which is forget the numbers, go with your gut. I also like Draft Day with Kevin Costner. Another behind the sport scenes about the NFL draft.
I was at a lot of those games. Opening day when Joe Satriani played the national anthem the PA system wasn’t working so we didn’t hear it unfortunately. My best friend who’s an A’s fan, (I’m a Giants fan) called me and told me to tune into the game for the record. I turned it on and they were up 11-0. I was rooting for them but laughing as they were blowing it. I still give props to them even though I’m not one of their fans. Just a baseball fan.
Nope. The dramatization was taken care of by how the media exaggerated the success of Beane's approach. Analytics are a wonderful thing. But the A's success was built on drafting top starting pitchers, and the offense was driven by 2-3 offensive players you didn't need obscure analytics to know were valuable.
What I really liked about this film is the concept of moneyball (using stats to unearth undervalued players). Now this concept is coming into Football (soccer) in England with Brighton and Brentford at the forefront. Exciting times!!
In German football, Munich has always been top tier, but completely dominating for the last 30 years. Out of the last 30 seasons, Munich won 20, Dortmund won 5, and then there's everyone else. And more recently, Munich has won 10 seasons in a row and is still going. They get the most wins, so they get the most fans, which means the most money, which gets them the best players from around the world, which again gets them the most wins.
MLB is still the same. The difference between the 2023 payrolls of the Mets (highest) and A's (lowest) is nearly $300 million. Ridiculous. As far as the Moneyball strategy, as stated at the end, the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 with the 2nd biggest salary (granted with the greatest comeback in MLB history in the ALCS down huge in game 4 and about to get swept in 4 games by the Yankees which had the top payroll-- the Red Sox came back and won in extra innings in game 4 and then won the next 3 games to get to the Series and, then, won the Championship). But the movie failed to mention the next year (2003), the Florida Marlins (now the Miami Marlins) won the World Series with one of MLB's lowest team payrolls using the Moneyball strategy. The current team that plays Moneyball the best is the Tampa Bay Rays. They are unbelievable, consistently at the bottom of the payroll scale yet always make the playoffs. This year, despite being at the bottom of the payroll scale YET AGAIN, they've started 13-0 which is tied for the longest winning streak to begin a season of all time and have set the MLB record for most lopsided wins in a row to start a season. They had a run differential of plus 57 - most in 1st 9 games since 1884. Their run differential through their 13-0 streak increased to 71. They've won their first 9 games by an average of more than 6 runs. the last 2 games as of which they won both 11-0--against who? The pathetic Oakland A's which only played Moneyball well for that 1 season.
You have witnesses one of the biggest us versus them argument in sports... the new math guys versus the old school romantics. This was genesis for advanced metrics, first in baseball, then to other sports.
“If he’s a good hitter than why doesn’t he hit good?” 😂 I love that line! Awesome movie!
And a lot of these lines were actually taken from real baseball meetings! The line, "Ugly girlfriend means no confidence" actually happened but the real line was "Ugly girlfriend means bad eyesight" and they changed it because the real line was considered too crazy to believe.
@@Pokeysaurus That's actually hilarious😂😂😂. Both work but bad eyesight is even funnier.
They do both work! 🤣🤣 lmao
I love that line because it just cuts right through all the scouts horse shit jargon talk.
The line that keeps every coach up at night 😂
"He hit a home run and he didn't even realize it." This film actually changed my life. Specifically the scene when Peter shows Billy the footage of the guy hitting the home run and not knowing it. At the time, I was living in Oregon. I had moved there and it was my first time living on my own away from home. I was trying something totally different and taking a chance. I lived there for over a year and I liked it a lot there but, for several reasons, it wasn't working out. I wanted to leave Oregon but I was afraid that by doing so I would be giving up. I was afraid of being seen as a failure and feeling like a failure. I felt I didn't succeed in my hopes and goals. But then I saw Moneyball and I decided to move and I saw everything in all that in a different way. The film made me realize that I had done something I had never done and I had changed and grown a lot. It was not a failure but a victory. Like Billy in the film, I had hit a home run and didn't realize it. And I felt pride and satisfaction in that journey in my life . And this film made me see that. I've seen many films in my life but Moneyball is up there with the ones that had the most impact on me.
I was a promising rugby player for awhile but usually in a utility role as a forward. Involved in working with a captain & vc in setting up tries but rarely if ever scoring one myself. I had that sensation once in club grand final which contributed to our win which was a margin of 3 points. I helped set the play & the line break, then somehow ended up with the ball, punched through a depleted backline & got the ball down with 10mins to go. I've seen video of it but to be honest I don't even remember those 30 seconds of play. I remember more tries where someone else scored & I just managed a satisfied smile. When you're rarely in the spotlight, the moment you are it is a bizarre & fleeting moment.
Cringe
My favorite movie of all time. I understand your passion for it.
I appreciate/envy the concept of someone risking going all the way with an idea that they really believe in when no one else does and are actively criticizing you.
@@voido68Nah, you’re just wrong.
@@voido68😂
How Philip Seymour Hoffman disappears into this character is a testament to how good of an actor he was.
My only dislike about this movie is that his character in real life was FULLY onboard with the moneyball strategy.
The Hatteberg home run happened just as the film showed. That almost too perfect timing of Billy offering him the contract at Christmas time was accurate, too-it happened on December 22nd. He played in the majors until mid-season 2008. He still works for the front office in Oakland.
Beat me to it. Billy literally gave him a career. Also the only time I ever stood up and yelled for another team.
Yeah, about that game and the Hatteberg home run,, I had no idea so I was amazed to see that that was exactly how it played out in reality.
I'm pretty sure they spliced in actual game footage into that scene in the movie.
I know the entire game is played out exactly, the errors, the comeback by KC. A lot of people watched that game nationally, they had to get the details right
@@jaybird4038 yes real game footage, and exactly how it happened
@@cartwright77 Honestly one of my all-time favorite baseball moments. Your "Miami Miracle" with Gronk looking like a newborn giraffe on defense is up there too. 👍👍
"I hate loosing even more than I want to win." There is a whole psychology behind this idea. Some people hate loosing and other people love winning. It sounds ridiculous but they are very different things. The two personality types are historically better in different roles/professions. For example professional poker players who love winning more than they hate loosing tend to take too many chances and go bust. I found it really cool that they threw that into this movie.
"They don't love to win."
"They Don't hate to lose."
That's a direct line from the mini series Shorsey. When he's explaining to the owner why her team is so shit, and isn't even willing to fight out on the ice; he explains it perfectly to her. "They don't want it.".
*Losing
"When your enemies are making mistakes, don't interrupt them." Is a line I say all the time.
That's napoleon, only he adds the fact that it's "bad manners"
you have enemies?
@@JerryMetal Anyone not living in a monastery has enemies.
@@justanobadi6655 Sun Tsu's Art of War 5th century BC .. Translated First into french in 1772 and likely read by Napolean
@@justanobadi6655 "When your anemonies are making mistakes, don't interrupt them." -The manager of Sea World Aquarium
"It's not that hard. Tell em, Wash"
*"It's incredibly hard!!"* 😂😂😂😂 Gets me every time.
Billy's reaction to that line is the best. But even better was when Hattie asks "What about the fans?" And Wash says "Yeah, maybe we can teach one of them."
@@SmokeDogg11 Then Billy's "Good one!!!" 😂😂
@@clevelandcbi That's the line! Yes. Kills me every time. The fact Brad starts talking to the gut again, stops, turns, just to validate that jab, it doesn't even seem like acting it's that good.
Comedic timing is impeccable.
I use that whenever screenwriting comes up lol.
Brad Pitt is one hell of an actor. He owned this role, his delivery of every line is perfection
He had a hell of a year as an actor in 2011. Tree Of Life and Moneyball, two incredible performances from Brad, and stylistically totally different. Impeccable performances, you cannot spot that guy acting in those two. Like you said, his line deliveries are perfection. (Philip Seymour Hoffman, too. That guy had every baseball coach mannerism I've ever seen. One minute he's playing Capote, or Scottie from Boogie Nights, or the rich kid in "Talented Mr. Ripley".....next he's doing this. What a friggin' loss. Him and Heath Ledger, what a friggin' waste of talent.
@@TTM9691 PSH was AMAZING, his loss is devastating
Not sure if you realized but this movie was written by Aaron Sorkin who is famous for writing films like A Few Good Men, The Social Network, Molly's Game and Steve Jobs, TV series like The West Wing, Sportsnight and The Newsroom and Theatre like the new adapted version of To Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway and in London. He was originally brought in by Spielberg to help do a re-write of Schindler's List. One of the great writers today.
I love "smart" movies based around numbers like this. My favorite is The Big Short about the housing crisis of 2008. The cast is insane and it actually made me fascinated with mortgage bonds. Or if you want to stick with baseball, no one has reacted to Keanu Reeves in Hardball yet.
The Big Short is another brilliant smart and funny choice.
Watch "Margin Call". Same topic like "The Big Short", but different style. Nevertheless incredible!
If you're interested in the housing crisis of 2008. I would urge you to watch these films/videos as a six part epic miniseries!
1. Margin Call: The Banking Side
2. The Big Short: The Investors Side
3. Too Big To Fail: The Governments Side
4. Ron Paul speech on the House Floor 2003: The Nostradamus Side
5. Peter Schiff speech to Mortgage Bankers 2006 : The Cassandra Side
6. Tom Woods Meltdown Lecture Boulder Colorado: The Austrian Economic Side
@@Jekyll_Island_Creatures i think Inside Job is worth watching
Interesting -- both books, Moneyball and The Big Short, were written by Michael Lewis
To your question: Major league baseball is the only major sport in North America without a hard salary cap to this day. And the player's union has been steadfast on that, MLB would basically have to implode in order to get around the player's union.
Only thing close to it, is the luxury tax.
Basketball doesn't have a hard cap. Teams just get penalized monetarily for going over.
Owners don’t want as salary cap either.
Especially now. The MLBPA is exceptionally well-capitalized since they were awarded $3 billion in damages after successfully suing the league for collusion relating to the 1994 work stoppage.
Do you think it’s one of reasons Baseball is dying? and will die if it doesn’t modernize?
Big Blue Jays fan here. Some answers for your questions.
-Yes, Hatteberg did have that particular home run to win the 20th game in a row.
-There is no hard salary cap in MLB. Teams with a payroll higher than a set amount pay a luxury tax, which is divided between all the teams below the luxury tax line.
-Analytics are taken very seriously now in both MLB and the other sport I watch (NHL).
-Biy Beane is no longer the GM for the Athletics but is still involve in the organization.
A difference from reality and the movie:
Art Howe was actually fairly supportive of Billy’s approach. He knew damn well that it was Oakland’s only hope at the post season.
This is based on Michael Lewis’ book of the same name. It is considered not only one of the best books written about baseball. But one of the most insightful books on business ever written. It took awhile to figure out how to adapt it into a movie. But this movie does it brilliantly.
"Check your reports or I'm gonna point at Pete." Great line. I'm an engineer, and this film appeals to me on so many levels. (I played almost a decade of baseball and spent years learning math.)
Fantastic video, Daniel & Samantha. _Moneyball_ is one of my favorite films for a couple of the reasons you caught. The Billy Beane story could take place in any industry resistant to change, but the more specific it is to baseball, the more relatable it ends up being. It's also a minor miracle this film got made: no special effects, no love interest, no triumphant ending. I don't even think Netflix would want it today.
Good lord, Aaron Sorkin could write a script based on insurance actuarial tables and it would be RIVETING. When you add a cast like this and performances like this you repeatedly get the most memorable and entertaining movies made in our lifetimes.
There's a reason why they call Sorkin "The Modern Shakespeare". His writing really pulls the curtain back and shows you an actor's worth, because not everyone can pull off his dialogue.
The relationship with the daughter was especially glaring as unneeded and clunky. Sorkin can’t write children’s parts
One of my favorites and I stumbled upon this gem while scrolling to find something to watch. I have watched it so many times and it's still holds up especially being a true story.
What a great sports movie and a business movie too! And Pitt had his Robert Redford vibe going the whole movie
Draft day is garbage
Besides Rudy and Bull Durham, I’d recommend “Trouble With The Curve” with Clint Eastwood and Justin Timberlake about baseball scouting.
As with all hollywood movies based on true events, there were certain embellishments that were exaggerated from real life, the biggest of which was probably Art the manager, in real life he is a perfectly lovely dude who by all accounts was a delight to work with, but the movie needed a villain so they made it him. As for the facts of the events though, those are all accurate. I'd highly encourage you to check out the clip on youtube of the real life Scott Hatteberg hitting the walk off homerun for the 20th win, the real thing is just as great as it is in the movie. Also Billy Beane is still with the Oakland A's today though he is now the executive VP and no longer the GM. He also OWNS a decent sized % of the A's so in the end he came out with waaaaaay more money by staying in Oakland than he would have ever gotten in Boston. Great reaction guys this was really enjoyable!
15:42 "Where're the Tigers?"
poor Detroit ☹️
The dialogue in this movie is so good, it really does feel like youre in the room participating in the conversation.
I love this movie. And it's the thing that sold me on Chris Pratt. Great reaction. It's time to do A League of Their Own, y'all.
One of my favorite sports movies EVER!!! Mostly because of what happens after the movie ends.
The Angels beat the Twins (the team that knocked out the A's) in the AL Championship, then they beat the San Francisco Giants to win the 2002 World Series!
Obviously i'm a lifelong Angels fan!
That being said....excellent performances by the entire cast!!!
Thank you for featuring this. It's my favorite movie ever made.
The coach, Wash, is Ron Washington, who went on to manage the Texas Rangers to 2 World Series appearances (though they lost both). He won the world series in 2021 as the 3rd base coach for the Atlanta Braves.
WHen I was in high school, went to a camp with Wash coaching. That guy was definitely the brains behind all his coaching stints. He was fantastic.
The Hatteberg home run is on TH-cam and will give you the goosebumps, really exciting to get the A’s their 20th
Not sure if mentioned... Pete as depicted in the movie was actually a combination of 2 guys in real life... I really love this film... in my Top 5 baseball films.
"I'm just saying, his girlfriend's a 6 at best!" - My favorite line of the film. Lol. 😅
I really love that they used This Will Destroy You's "The Mighty Rio Grande" in the trailers for this film. Can't remember if it was in the actual film but was glad to hear some post rock getting included.
Edit: oh they did use it at the 6:00 min mark
Best line in the movie? Peter Brand leaving Art Howe's office... "You want this door closed?" 🤣🤣🤣
This really is a great movie, one of my favorites. What memory most attaches me is mentioned at the end. I was born and raised in rural centrat MA. For most of my life I had the fatalism typical of many long term Red Sox fans. I had long since moved away, but I happened to be in Worcester MA for a high school reunion when they finally made the run that ended the Curse of the Bambino.
There is no cap in baseball. There is a luxury tax, so if you spend over a certain amount you have to pay a tax on it. But generally, bigger markets have more money to spend. Bigger markets make more sales so they have more money. The Yankees were infamous for their big spending for a long time. But recently there’s been more teams that are big spenders. But markets like Oakland, Kansas City, and Cincinnati never have big payrolls. Deep pockets do not always correlate to success though. The Los Angeles Angels have been bad for a long time. The New York Mets were bad for a long time. Both the Chicago Cubs and White Sox are rarely good.
This film always reminds me of when hospitals tried to switch to a 3-question algorithm (it was the nineties, so it was basically just a checklist) instead of the educated guess of doctors when it came to predicting which patients coming in with chest pains were in danger of a heart attack. The checklist was much more accurate - both in predicting which patients weren't actually having a heart attack and in assigning the ones with major complications to the correct medical unit - but the doctors balked at using it because they felt their instincts were better suited for the job, despite evidence to the contrary.
People tend to value their instincts way too highly, even though it takes all sorts of irrelevant info (like prejudices etc.) into account which quite often skews their final opinion.
20:35 I know you guys don’t know but he wasn’t cut entirely, in baseball there are minor league teams which is most likely where he was sent down to
I totally didn't recognize Chris Pratt at first playing 1st Baseman Scott Hatteberg.
I recommend this movie to anyone that'll listen to me, even put up with the obligatory "I'm not into sports". Neither am I. After my fifteenth or sixteenth watch I just lost track of how many times I've watched this gem. I't just one of those more than the sum of it's parts kind of thing. Thanks for a great watchalong!
The real life Art Howe(PSH character) was very against how the movie portrayed him. Billy and Art were on good terms and worked together to help make their team play the best ball possible
Yeah, the real Art backed Billy 100%. They should have changeed his name in the film, to show he was a character and not a false pretrial.
I was at game number twenty. Still the loudest crowd reaction I have ever been apart of.
Glad you guys loved one of my absolute favourite films 😊
Great movie maybe Brad’s best or favorite of mine, every role was cast perfectly, thanks Y’all
Yes, the pay differential is massive. The Mets have 2 players that individually make more money than the entire Oakland A’s team payroll
Billy Beane actually was part of two world series rosters, with the Twins in 1987 and the Oakland As in 1989, in both teams he was a defensive replacement, while having a miserable career at the bat, he was a complete superstar on defense, making highlight reel plays. The problem was that Beane just could not bat. Also the 2001 Twins had a roster nearly a lowly paid as the Oakland A's.
Brilliant movie. The writing, directing and attention to detail is incredible. And every actor absolutely knocks it out of the park. Thanks for the reaction guys!
Billy didn't want to move away from his daughter. That's the point of her singing at the end
Glad you both liked the movie. True story. My friends and I are big A’s fans and remember that season well. When they filmed the movie at the Oakland Coliseum my friends and I got to be extras as part of the crowd in the stands. The call went out to A’s fans who wanted to be part of the movie and we showed up. We filmed for several days but all at night after 10pm.
Sadly, today the A’s are still a small market team and the current ownership is seriously considering moving the A’s out of Oakland after several bad seasons and financial losses. They’ve been rumored to be seriously considering Las Vegas. I hope they stay and build a new stadium in a different location in Oakland but that’s not looking good.
@@user-ko8qx3db5g I think the Athletics misfortunes has less to do with the market and more to do with cheap ownership and poor player developments.
@@user-ko8qx3db5g And Tim Hudson back in the day.
@@user-ko8qx3db5g I agree. They've also made some seriously bad moves/trades the last decade. My Indians have a cheap owner, but the GM has hit home runs only the last few years. Almost every perceived "bad" trade has ended up in our favor, most being lopsided, in fact. I hate seeing Oakland leave, but I also think the time has come.
Can I just say how wholesome it is that I’ve never seen one of y’all’s videos without y’all holding hands
Gotta also do Bull Durham and Hoosiers. Also recommend The Natural. And the original The Longest Yard (with Burt Reynolds).
Of those, the original version of "The Longest Yard", absolutely. All of those are good but "Longest Yard" would be my pick. (The original, not the lame remake)
I was glad to see you guys watch this movie. I was working in baseball at the time that this happened, and those few years before and after changed the game significantly. Most teams have analytics departments now, and the advantage of the way the A's were evaluating has evaporated. Hatteberg was not a surprise to one group of people: fantasy baseball players. I had a friend that had Hatteberg on his team, and he was HUGE in the mid 90s in that regard. Teams that _don't_ spend on analytics lag behind and tend to make a lot more wrong moves for players. The Rockies are the prime example, spending their money in all the wrong places. Thanks for the great video!
I worked in MiLB for a few years around this time as well. It all makes for a very entertaining story. And, like horse betting, it really draws in the nerds. Of course, it's efficacy is greatly exaggerated.
The A's were successful because they drafted some of the top starting pitchers in the draft - not because they found guys who - in the right situation - might earn a walk against a left-handed Dominican with a slight lisp. 🤣
Jeremy Giambi, the player (not the actor) who was dancing in the locker room after losing a game, passed away last year. When I heard the news, this movie came to my mind. That was how I knew that such a person existed.
Some of the scouts in the meetings were character actors and some were baseball guys. Ken Medlock, who played the head scout Grady, was a long-time baseball player and coach and then shifted to acting. One of the other scouts in that meeting was Barry Moss. Barry played in the minor leagues for years and then got into coaching. He was once a manager for a minor league team, Salt Lake Trappers, owned in part by the Murray brothers - Bill and Brian-Doyle.
I can reach with Daniel's story at the dentist. I was watching ''Master and Commander'' in the chair when the dentist returned to check on the freezing. ''Um, can you come back in about two hours?'' I asked and she was laughing a lot. I like the Moneyball film too but I think the Expos were using that strategy (value for money) first.
Great pick, love your reaction. I always notice the difference in the club house/locker room mood as the film moves along.
That scene where Billy Beane is talking to David Justice about his contract is one of the best scenes in the movie.
The major effect on baseball from this movie was that the proverbial cat was out of the bag. Virtually every World Series winner since that year has been based on the Billy Beane/Bill James model. Instantly, the Athletics were back in a disadvantaged position relative to the rest of Major League Baseball.
The disparity in team payrolls generally correlates less with how wealthy the owner is than how much he’s willing to invest in the ball club. Naturally, this is a source of incredible frustration for fans of teams that run sub-par payrolls.
Sorta kinda. Billy Beane was still able to field an occasional winner. Because despite everyone else becoming smarter, there were still undervalued players slipping through the cracks. You also have to consider that some teams took what Billy Beane did, but progressed it significantly further in order to compete. Prime example being the Rays. They do the most advanced form of moneyball in the current game, and they still find their way in the playoffs nearly every season.
Loved the editor comments!! 😂
Always love your content, keep up the great work!
Some great performances in this movie. This movie is Chris Pratt right between Parks and Rec and Guardians of the Galaxy. Before he was a leading-man action hero in GOTG and Jurassic World, and he portrays this vulnerable, nervous kind of guy so well. It's also great to see Jonah Hill in a non-comedic role. You can tell he's having a lot of fun with it.
There is just so much subtlety in this film and it hits different everytime i watch it
I watched the shit out of this movie when it came out.
But this movie REALLY shows the ins and outs of baseball, like what goes on when looking for your next player, or how a player doesn't pan out in baseball.
Yes, they changed the game forever! The game today is based so much on analytics that people openly complain about it. Baseball has changed from a fun American past-time to a chess game. Teams now have entire departments that do nothing but analytics. Recent changes such as the pitch clock and the banning of switching defensive players all to one side of the infield have been implemented to attempt to bring back some of the old mystic and fun and to make the games more exciting. We will see.
Moneyball is based on the book of the same name by Michael Lewis. The tone of the book is very different from the movie. It's a work of journalism, for one thing, not a piece of storytelling. It's been said (accurately, I think) that's it's really more a book about business than baseball.
It's a good movie as long as you don't expect it to represent reality. While it's true that the A's didn't have as much money as a lot of other teams, they didn't make the players buy their own sodas. They didn't get an analyst in a trade (players can be traded, but regular employees can't be). And, perhaps most importantly, Art Howe was not a jerk. He got along quite well with Billy Beane (and everyone else on the team), and he never had a problem with Beane's management philosophy. It's another case of Hollywood needing an antagonist. Art Howe was actually offended by how he was portrayed.
The movie also focused on a few players and ignored others. The Big Three (starting pitchers Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson) had a lot to do with the A's success in the 2002 season, yet they're pretty much invisible in the movie.
But the basic idea is correct. The A's were successful because they found value in players that other teams ignored. In a sense, they were doing player arbitrage. Michael Lewis was interested in it because he had a business background. His first book was Liar's Poker, about his experiences as a stock broker.
Also, the A's really did win 20 consecutive games, and Scott Hatteberg really did hit a walk-off homer in the last game. I attended games 3, 18, and 20 of the streak.
BTW, as great as Jason Giambi was, his brother Jeremy was, let's say, a problem. I've been an A's fan for decades, and I saw him make so many mental errors on the field that he drove me nuts. He lasted in the majors only one more season after the A's traded him to Philadelphia.
The funny thing about the whole notion of "The A's have a small budget" or ""We have no money" is they actually do have money. Their owners are loaded af but still choose to be cheap skates.
I always wanted to watch this but never got round to it but soon as I saw it on your schedule, I had to finally track it down and watch it before watching the reaction (hear that Hollywood, reaction channels promote your products and make you money). American Sports movie don't always translate well into money or views outside the US but this one did, I think it has actor pedigree and it can easily be understood even with little knowledge of baseball, it's a good movie.
Another reason I wanted to see it is that Billy Beane became one of the owners of my local football team Barnsley FC, a few years ago, so that was a point of interest.
I love the light trolling from your editor here too. ;)
"How can you not be romantic about baseball?"
Three movies leap to mind about the power of math. One is Hidden Figures, about math geniuses helping Project Mercury before computers took over everything. There are two movies about high finance who make the subject relatable. One is The Big Short, which is a ton of fun. Another is Margin Call, which among other things is a master class of acting. I find all three to be addictively watchable. I hope you'll consider them.
I love this movie as a baseball fan. It helped me understand analytics in sports and why it should be embraced more. My favorite team, the Atlanta Braves, finally started embracing analytics a few years ago and now they're the best teams in baseball.
This is a prime example of the fact that one should never dismiss a movie based on its subject matter. I have no interest in Baseball at all, let alone the economics of it, yet this is great, captivating filmmaking.
Oh I love Moneyball! Very happy to see someone reacting to it!
It's probably one of the most inspiring films I've ever seen.
The song, the girl sings at 9:18 is "The Show" by Lenka. Great song.
I love this movie! The one thing that never comes up in this movie, is that team had Chavez, Tejada, Kotch, Hudson, Zito, and Mulder. The team had three legit aces.
Money will always be a major factor.. in the long run. It not only pays for the big stars but also a strong bench, strong bullpen, solid starting rotation, free agents..
Great reactions to a true story. I was there. My best friend and I had a weekend and holiday season ticket package and we were there for most of the games in that winning streak.
The guy Billie Bean (Brad Pitt) talks to at the beginning, the co-owner of the Athletics, is portrayed by Bobby Kotick, the real life CEO of Activision - Blizzard.
I thought he looked familiar.
They edited out the horns in post production
@@PiratemanForever LMAO
If you ever get around to watching "Hoosiers," I can send you both shirts from the actual gym that served as Hickory's home court. I live 15 seconds from it and have shot baskets there 100 times, at least. Even rented it 3x for my son and daughter's birthdays.
I love this film. Travelled to Malaysia this week on a 13 hour flight and was delighted that this was available to watch, could easily have watched it a few times if my kids would have left me alone!
clint eastwoods "Trouble with the Curve" is another great one in this same theme
The song used in the film is a over
The song is “The Show” by Australian singer Lenka
If you want another film that has an insider's view of how sports management works, watch Draft Day with Kevin Costner.
It's about the general manager of the Cleveland Browns dealing with the NFL draft.
As you guys are quite familiar with the UK, you'll know we're football (soccer) mad over here. Red sox owner John W. Henry portrayed near the end of the movie, bought my football team Liverpool fc back in 2010 for £300m. It's been a slow and steady climb back to winning ways using an adaptation of the moneyball system. 14 cup finals, 8 trophies, runner-up 3 times in the league and 1 league championship in 13 years We're valued now at circa £3.7 billion.
I'm a Twins fan, I have very fond memories of that As-Twins playoff series. I was also at the Twins-As game where the As were going for win #21 and they finally lost. It's not really shown in the movie, but the As had awesome starting pitching. Hudson, Zito and Mulder were probably in the top 2-3 rotations in baseball.
The analytics vs old school portrayed here is very simplified, Billy Beane and the As definitely were pioneers, but their philosophy spread very quickly. As much as the old-school scout vs. spreadsheet/numbers guy stereotype portrayed, the reality is that all teams rely on scouts and advanced analytics. Analytics informs scouting, but it certainly doesn't replace it. The best teams are good at identifying and acquiring players that need further development. Nowadays, the basically all teams are using high-speed cameras to track the movement and spin rates of pitches and breaking down the biomechanics of players pitches and swing. It's very different from the spreadsheets vs. scouts, but it relies on both math whizzes and guys who have been watching baseball their whole lives.
There is still a huge discrepancy in payrolls across the MLB, but outside of the top spending teams it's largely by choice. The Mets this year are spending $334 million on their payroll. The As are spending $56 million. The As will never spend like the Yankees, Dodgers or Mets, but they're payroll is mostly by choice, they're tanking this year and they're owner is widely regarded as cheap. There are structural disadvantages for small market teams, but the discrepancy is this significant because they are choosing not to spend. The median payroll is twice as much as the As are spending currently. The As get around $100 million (if not more) each year from TV deals and that's before anything else.
This is such a brilliantly made film.
I'm English, haven't really a clue about baseball, except that it lies deep in the heart and soul of what America is for a lot of people. I saw some games at the Toronto Blue Jays stadium, what a spectacle! But this is a wonderful film, but then look at the screenwriters Aaron Sorkin and Steve Zaillian, two giants of movies with Brad Pitt playing the little guy no one would believe in a giant role. (I believe the script was rejected and lost until Pitt revived it, he believed in it like Beane believed) There's a few screenwriting coaches who regard this as one of their favourite movies and it's not an 'up' ending, yet Beane turned down the money, he went for his soul, thats what mattered despite all the money and algorithims, he had a big heart and changed the game forever.
From the East Bay. Born in Walnut Creek grew up in Lafayette about 15 to 20 minutes from Oakland. My family and I are all big A's, Raiders, and Warriors fans. Actually, went to a couple of games that season when they won 20 in a row
Great film, especially in how it takes a very (theoretically) boring subject of math and baseball and makes it interesting, exciting. Great freaking writing.
As my friends and I say whenever this movie comes up in conversation..."fuck, this movie SLAPS!!" So good, riveting, and well acted. Hell, this was the peak of my baseball watching days and I remember watching this play out...from Boston...and the anticipation we had about possibly landing Billy Beane was palpable in the city. Ultimately, he turned them down and they went with Theo Epstein, and ALSO hired Bill James (the guy they talk about who figured this out) as a consultant. Two years later, we had the biggest comeback in baseball history against the Yankees to make it to the World Series and won, finally breaking that drought or "curse" as everyone called it.
Fun fact: Theo Epstein has basically punched his ticket to Cooperstown (the Baseball Hall of Fame for anyone who doesn't know, located in Cooperstown, NY) because not only was he the GM of the Red Sox who engineered a team that broke that curse, but he was also the GM of the Cubs when they broke their own, much LONGER curse/drought back in 2015 or 16. He may very well go down as the greatest GM in history for those moments...although he's also had some real stinkers for teams over the years.
When Scott Hatteberg (Chris Pratt) hugs his family after getting the contract....that hit me.
The montage of "The Streak" is one of the best montages in all of film.
2:17 “is that still how baseball works?” Yes. Yes it is. Top spenders were around $300 million last year - lowest were around $70 million
Just a top baseball movie - Thanks for watching this one..
check out 'the natural' with Robert Redford, my fave baseballl movie
Great movie. It's only flaw it never mentioned once the main reason they won 103 games. The trio of starting pitcher's of Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson, won 57 games, threw 677 innings, and had a combined E.R.A. under 3.00. Zito went 23-5, with an E.R.A. of 2.75, and won the Cy Young - could've mentioned him at least once.
In contrast to this movie, I also recommend, Trouble with the Curve, with Amy Adams and Clint Eastwood. It actually promotes the old scout way of doing things which is forget the numbers, go with your gut. I also like Draft Day with Kevin Costner. Another behind the sport scenes about the NFL draft.
I was at a lot of those games. Opening day when Joe Satriani played the national anthem the PA system wasn’t working so we didn’t hear it unfortunately. My best friend who’s an A’s fan, (I’m a Giants fan) called me and told me to tune into the game for the record. I turned it on and they were up 11-0. I was rooting for them but laughing as they were blowing it. I still give props to them even though I’m not one of their fans. Just a baseball fan.
The craziest thing about this movie is that they didn’t have to dramatize any of it.
Nope. The dramatization was taken care of by how the media exaggerated the success of Beane's approach. Analytics are a wonderful thing. But the A's success was built on drafting top starting pitchers, and the offense was driven by 2-3 offensive players you didn't need obscure analytics to know were valuable.
0:27 Million Dollar Baby (2004)
almost!
What I really liked about this film is the concept of moneyball (using stats to unearth undervalued players). Now this concept is coming into Football (soccer) in England with Brighton and Brentford at the forefront. Exciting times!!
In German football, Munich has always been top tier, but completely dominating for the last 30 years.
Out of the last 30 seasons, Munich won 20, Dortmund won 5, and then there's everyone else. And more recently, Munich has won 10 seasons in a row and is still going.
They get the most wins, so they get the most fans, which means the most money, which gets them the best players from around the world, which again gets them the most wins.
MLB is still the same. The difference between the 2023 payrolls of the Mets (highest) and A's (lowest) is nearly $300 million. Ridiculous. As far as the Moneyball strategy, as stated at the end, the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 with the 2nd biggest salary (granted with the greatest comeback in MLB history in the ALCS down huge in game 4 and about to get swept in 4 games by the Yankees which had the top payroll-- the Red Sox came back and won in extra innings in game 4 and then won the next 3 games to get to the Series and, then, won the Championship). But the movie failed to mention the next year (2003), the Florida Marlins (now the Miami Marlins) won the World Series with one of MLB's lowest team payrolls using the Moneyball strategy. The current team that plays Moneyball the best is the Tampa Bay Rays. They are unbelievable, consistently at the bottom of the payroll scale yet always make the playoffs. This year, despite being at the bottom of the payroll scale YET AGAIN, they've started 13-0 which is tied for the longest winning streak to begin a season of all time and have set the MLB record for most lopsided wins in a row to start a season. They had a run differential of plus 57 - most in 1st 9 games since 1884. Their run differential through their 13-0 streak increased to 71. They've won their first 9 games by an average of more than 6 runs. the last 2 games as of which they won both 11-0--against who? The pathetic Oakland A's which only played Moneyball well for that 1 season.
You have witnesses one of the biggest us versus them argument in sports... the new math guys versus the old school romantics.
This was genesis for advanced metrics, first in baseball, then to other sports.