@@guspaz He's wasn't fired. Halfway into making it, Kubrick told North that that was all the music he needed, and that he would replace the rest with breathing noises. He never fired him, or told him it would never be used.
Just think of some of the movies you like, which show their age because of contemporary scores. Kubrick wanted this movie to be timeless, and so, picked music which had, and would, stand the test of time.
Oh, that circus music from Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines... I know it's a comedy, but that shitty music kills the movie for many people...
I can think of a lot of older movies which show their age by having scores 100 times better than what is heard today. This argument is empty because the idea of scores 'aging badly' is not a reasonable generalization, so you can't apply it as a principle, or even a rule of thumb.
@@worrywirt It's because Kubrick literally composed/edited with those tracks in the first place. No shit they fit better when you consider the fact that everything in the movie was paced and in tone with the test tracks. Going back in and using another soundtrack would never have the same gravitas no matter if it was specifically written for the film or not. Simply because it wasn't edited with that music in mind.
Great video, I can only say that I am incredibly grateful that North's score wasn't used because it was seeing this film that made me fall in love with classical music, to the extent that I now work in the classical music industry!
I cannot hear The Blue Danube without seeing in my mind, that incredible Space Wheel and Spaceship. Kubrick was definitely the master of combining music with visual spectacle. As for the opening Planet, moon and emerging Sun sequence, nothing would have surpassed Kubrick's choice of Also Sprach Zarathustra, MAGNIFICENT!!
I watch 2001 a couple of times a year, and it blows me away. The film is 50 years old, but you'd never had guessed. I feel if Kubrick hadn't picked timeless pieces of music, the film wouldn't have become timeless. Music will always force the view back to that era, but timeless music doesn't have an era. It was the correct choice in not using Norths score.
I couldn't help notice how North's music seems to date the movie, yet the choice of using classical scores somehow gives the film a more timeless quality.
i couldnt disagree more, i just watched for the first time tonight, and yes the first minutes soundtrack is iconic, but the rest of the orchestrial soundtrack made it feel COMPLETELY DATED.... totally out of place and did not match any feeling to the actual film... that silly ballet sound is so out of place
These types of videos really make me appreciate Kubrick’s film more. I’ve always known him to be brilliant, but something as quote-on-quote simple as the theme song (‘Also Sprach Zarathustra’) with its extremely deep meaning is just amazing!
I assume Kubric knew best how to assemble a Kubric film, but I'd love to hear North's interpretation. I wonder if there's an "official" (or unofficial) edit that restores it to the most likely place, even if it's incomplete. I think it's fascinating experiencing a movie with a different score, how it much it can transmutate - most often with silent films, but Ridley Scott's Legend is one later example.
Yeah there’s a website that pushes North’s score and tries best to pinpoint the moments in the film, but it will never fit perfectly because Kubrick edited to the songs he used. It’s still an interesting exercise!
2001 as it is has a very deep and mysterious and intelligent sensibility all the way through, even the spooky voice music. North's music would have been all wrong. I don't like mood music trying to lead my emotions. Its akin to a laugh track in that sense. Let me lose myself in the movie! Fantastic job Stanley Kubrick!
I remember reading somewhere that part of his thinking was that the masters of composition exist within the world of music, not film composition. Why hire someone new to create music when the classical masters already did it best hundreds of years ago?
Yeah exactly. He definitely preferred the greats who wrote music meant to be played live in a huge auditorium as opposed to film composers who I guess he felt would limit themselves to fit the film.
These sequences are so iconic now (and have been replicated time and time again) that it's difficult to realize how novel they were in their time. This video gives me a new perspective on Kubrick's films. Thank you.
I always felt like the only tonal music (i.e. the non-Ligeti stuff) that existed in space was reflections we brought with ourselves from our past. That’s why the compiled soundtrack works for me in a way North’s music never could.
FWIW: I have certainly not seen all of Kubrick films, but one thing that stands out to me from the ones I have seen is that his films have a timeless quality to them. They don't have that _dated_ [vibe?] that {at least some} _older_ motion pictures do.
Nice piece, Elk! Feel bad for North, on how Kubrick treated him, but he made the right choice. The film simply wouldn't be the timeless classic and piece of art it will always be. It was instantly a timeless classic, much like the music Kubrick went with. North's score would have, possibly, caused the film to fall away into the rest of 1960's sci-fi. Somehow, North's music would have lightened the film, trivialized it, as good as his compositions were... for "regular" films.
Thank God Kubrick always stood firm and never let studios overrule him. His music selections were brilliant and North's score is generic. It's sad that the human race has devolved to this point where there will never be any more movie directors like Kubrick.
I like North's score, having scooped up the Goldsmith recording a while back, but only in the light of film scores from that era. As he worked to make it sound contemporary it winds up sounding dated and slightly bombastic. Kubrick by far made the correct choice. And this is my favorite Kubrick film, closely followed by Barry Lyndon.
It was Kubrick's movie and he did what he wanted to do. Good thing to because Kubrick's choices made 2001 what it became. A movie that not only inspired countless other great movies, but a movie that has effects hard to rival even to this day.
I finally saw it in Cinerama, during it's re-release 2 years ago at the Arclight theater in Hollywood, which still has it's original Cinerama screen in place. It's a great theater complex. If you're ever in Los Angeles, go see a film at the Arclight! Fabulous cinema!
Norths score is fantastic, but the music really does date the movie to it's era. Where as the classical music helps 2001 to remain timeless. It's a great score for a different movie.
Because of the way The Blue Danube was used here, that music is now forever synonymous with space and the majesty and beauty of space. In addition, that classical music actually makes this movie totally future proof. Others may argue newer movies look 'more realistic', but 2001 still has the best effects, and is the best science fiction movie ever. Tons of little touches make this so as well. For example, listen to the computer voice of HAL 9000
A lot of people love to gripe about how "slow" the action is in 2001. Honestly, 2001 looks far more realistic as far as the EVA scenes are concerned. Watch a real space-walk and you'll wish it was as "fast" as the ones in 2001.
@@Mumblix Totally agreed! Tons of other details. For example, check out how the attendants walks in micro gravity and how they help the passengers, the environments aboard the space stations, etc. Even a "simple" attendant working in zero or micro gravity would be very highly paid professionals
At first I assumed Kubrick was just biased toward the tracks he'd already been hearing the whole time, but upon actually hearing it, yeah that soundtrack just straight up sounds like something out of Willy Wonka, I totally understand
In film scores the musical pieces are called CUES, not "songs". The Ric-hard Strauss Also Sprach Zarathustra is a tone poem, not a song...... Otherwise an interesting look at this controversial subject and welcome exposure for Alex North, one of the few authentic genuises of Hollywood scoring.
Anacapa Ross This may be true, but it’s really tiresome to hear the snobs blabbering about how ‘technically they’re not songs’. This video is not intended to be a college course about music, it’s just a brief explanation on the subject of ONE film, for laypeople who don’t want a lengthy explanation of the difference between ‘song’ and other forms of music. Most people aren’t looking for that when they are interested in a movie. The title of the video doesn’t even mention music.
@@jamescarter3196 Not a "snob" ... just a musician. If someone doesn't respect the basic terminology of an art form then they have very little or no business "explaining" anything about it. The video is about the music of the movie 2001 ... so the title doesn't have the word "music" in it ... but it's all about the music ... and it certainly disrespects the art form of music to mis-label instrumental pieces as "songs" , but also disrespects the intended audience for this video. Why do you think it's OK to give "laypeople" people misinformation? The word "song" has a specific meaning in music ... it's very simple ... it's not "snobbish" to point this out, just like it wouldn't be "snobbish" to point out any other blatant inaccuracy in a supposedly educational or informative video like this one. What if the video referred to 2001 as a "TV Show" ... Would that be ok? No ... because it's a "movie" and the music in that movie is not a bunch of "songs". What's your problem with this?
"welcome exposure for Alex North, one of the few authentic genuises[sic] of Hollywood scoring."... stated as fact, not as opinion; that is epic level snob right there.
Kubrick absolutely made the right decision - no question - the music he chose was totally inspired and carried with it a touch of pure genius. Kubrick was an astonishing director who instinctively knew what was right for his incredible movies.
Not that North's compositions were bad. They were much more in line with pictures from late 1960's Hollywood, than the specific vision Kubrick had for his picture to become almost timeless
OMG! How different 2001: A Space Odyssey would have been with the original music. I'm so glad Kubrick went the direction he did, it made the movie what it is. It was so important in 2001, with its lack of dialogue. Imagine, in the multiverse somewhere Kubrick kept the music. I wonder how well 2001 has done there.
In my research, I don't think North wrote anything that was eventually replaced by Ligeti. Ligeti's opening number before the title cards and with the monolith didn't have a North equivalent. Would've been interesting to see what he came up with.
Had the chance to see this movie on real film - The Dawn of Man transition into space going from Almost silent to a very loud classical piece was very effective! North clearly had talent, but I'm glad Kubrick was this detail oriented and honest enough to cut out North's work. Great video!
I know nothing about music, so it's fun when I notice similarities between composers' scores. For example, watching "Doctor Zhivago" for the tenth time, I was suddenly reminded of music from "The Collector". I checked and...hey, Maurice Jarre wrote them both! Today, at 0:36, I hear excerpts of North's "2001", and I think "Dragonslayer". Yup, ten seconds later I see they're both his.
I recall a similar comparison of film music composers a while back. That was Sir William Walton vs. Ron Goodwin for "The Battle of Britain," though the "fighter melee" scene used Sir William's "Battle In The Air," which gave the audience a feel for the life-or-death struggle.
Kubrick films always have this sense of timelessness, specifically 2001. Weeks ago I saw Paths of Glory (the one with Kirk Douglas) and is a incredible period piece but somehow that's what makes it ageless
And it was royalty free, part of the reason Pink Floyd was considered but rejected. Pink Floyd spun it that it was their artistic integrity that declined the offer. Atom Heart Mother synchronizes to 2001 as well.
Interesting video as I hadn't heard any of North's original scores before - and I do think Kubrick made the right decision. Just a note - songs are for singing. Music written for instruments only are not generally referred to as "songs".
This definition of ‘song’ is pretty pointless here, and some of the 2001 soundtrack does include vocals. Are you sure jazz musicians don’t play songs? How about ‘Misirlou’ by Dick Dale, not a song? If it’s an ‘instrumental’... an instrumental WHAT?
Kubrick got it right on choosing the temp tracks. But it surprises me that he didn't told North that his score would not be used. It's such a simple gesture (and a professional one, to me at least)
I saw 2001 when it came out, in a huge theater of 1100 seats. Hearing The Blue Danube while seeing space travel of the future was a revelation, especially since we had been told this was the most scientifically accurate sci-fi film ever. Instead of showing us something crass and busy like Star Wars would some years later, 2001 showed it being graceful and coordinated like a waltz, but even more so. By going with classical music, Kubrick prevented 2001 from being stuck in the present, and made the audience reimagine classical music in a futuristic context. In North's score, you can hear a little bit of movie scores like Spartacus, Cleopatra, The Misfits, and even A Streetcar Named Desire. You wouldn't have been able to watch the film without becoming mired in these associations. But whatever associations you might have had for those classical pieces, they would forever be replaced with scenes from 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Thank you so much for MUBI, I tried your 30 month free trial about a month ago and I loved it. Saw a bunch of new films that have become my favourites, thanks
This was absolutely incredible. I am such a huge fan of the film and never knew of this! I especially loved the graphic match at 1:14/1:15 which I have replayed at least 6 times now and will continue to. Thank you so much!
Ligeti's choral work Lux Aeterna was included without Ligeti's permission and violated copyright laws. Including Ligeti and that 50s-60s musical genre clearly locks the film in the 1960s. One thing for sure is that it inspired a lot of concert goers to attend pops concerts at local symphony programs, but, few go out to hear Lux Aeterna for the same reasons.
Kubrick originally wanted to make a film about UFOs but Clarke talked him out of it. He was also interested in Clarke's Childhood's end. I wonder what Kubrick's take on Close Encounters would have been?
Patrik Öhrström No, The Shining is not Kubrick’s best film. Great horror film but among his work, it stands in the shadows of Clockwork Orange, 2001, Barry Lyndon and Dr. Strangelove.
@@shiwomino5775 Ummm... no. Songs are words (or wordless vocals) set to music. It requires a vocal to be called a song. In the film music world, wordless (non-vocal) pieces of music are called cues. Or you could say track.
@@shiwomino5775 Erik's right. Songs only involve pieces of music with a vocal part. Yes, there are some pieces for piano by Mendelssohn and Brahms that are called 'Songs without Words', and there is a Symphony by Gorecki that has a subtitle with the word 'Songs' in it, but they are the exceptions to the rule.
One of the main points about the use of "The Blue Danube Waltz" is that the waltz dance moves in circles, and at this point mankind is stuck moving in pointless circles, again in need of inspiration from the monolith. Every visual element in the segments using this music show circular movements and man's still apparent primitivism (watching judo matches, nationalistic posturing around the new "watering hole" of the drinks at the table). This will contrast with the radically different forward movement and music of investigating the monolith, and then Bowman's trip through the stargate. North's music is interesting, but it's completely impossible to imagine it being used.
I have found, for my taste, that most sound tracks detract from a good movie. Even when I like the background score it is often to loud. In Apocalypse Now, music is actually embedded in the movie as in a radio playing on a river boat while they go upriver. Also Forest Gump used prerecorded pop songs from the era the movie was set in. Thus Spoke God (Zarathustra).
There is a book called Lost Worlds of 2001, Clarke wrote it and it went over how the script was developed it including details of the various drafts, changes in plot and anecdotes over how the film was shot etc. The book has been out of print for over 45 years but if you like the film, it is worthwhile sourcing a copy if possible.
This is a score for something with the feel of a Hollywood epic like what North did for Spartacus where Kubrick was a director-for-hire. I like it by itself but it is the wrong tone for 2001 so Kubrick was right to cut it out.
North's work sounds like Planet of the Apes soundtrack to me. Maybe they are both from the same guy, but by now they appear outdated and very distinct of the 60s. On contrast, the music Kubrik picked almost sounds timeless. Maybe they will fall sound outdated at some point, but for now, the score just sounds timeless and thus cant fall out of fashion since it never was _IN_ fashion.
The Planet of the Apes soundtrack ('70's, not the recent remakes) was composed by Jerry Goldsmith. Sounds dated and generically spastic listening to it now, much as the North soundtrack.
Having collected and heard the Alex North score, mostly connected with the scenes intended, I believe North was successful; the flight to the space station is accompanied by music that screams 'this is the whirlpool kitchen of tomorrow'. The emphasis on technology over humanity is exactly right, IMO.
I wonder if Kubrick knew that using timeless WORKS (not songs) of classical music would remind people of 2001 whenever they heard them outside of seeing the film. It's a very clever effect. How can anyone whose seen the film not think of the opening when hearing Zarathustra? ... or the docking of the PanAm clipper while listening to the first soft notes of the Blue Danube? I certainly can't.
Kubrick made the music in 2001 memorable, it fit so well to the movie that you can never replace it. I am still sad that such a great director is not with us making more movies.
I would love this music in a movie now. Like even though it doesn't fit the theme of 2001 it's still beautiful retro sci-fi music that was just never used.
The booklet of the Intrada release of Alex North's score is pretty interesting, when it comes to telling the story of how many attempts were made at creating the score. Interestingly Stanley Kubrick wanted Carl Orff to write the music for a long time, but the composer declined to continue working on his last piece "De temporum fine comoedia".
I think Alex North's music could possibly work well with the ape scenes where silence was used instead. I really like the Pink Floyd synchronization to the Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite scene. Overall, I definitely think Kubrick's decision seems to have been the right choice.
*_...one thing that didn't work in Kubrick's choice of music was the floating pen, _**_04:48_**_, where a waltz would have a few-things, turning-shifting-in-sync, pen, pad, cellphone, mimicking the outside... North's is NewsDate + B-movie + LAX Muzak _**_00:31_**_, _**_04:58_**_..._*
As a massive Alex North fan (I consider him one of the greatest composers to have ever lived), I didn't think I would agree with take, but I have to say you are totally on point. North's music for this film was gorgeous, but would not have fitted nearly as well as the classical music did.
One story about 2001, was that Kubrick was editing the film aboard a train since Kubrick didn’t like flying. He was listening to Johann music and love the pacing. Also, if you listen carefully to both the film and the music itself. You will notice that the film version is a little faster too. Unfortunately North music more like a documentary soundtrack.
The only composer that might have come close was Bernard Hermann. Citizen Kane, Psycho, and Taxi Driver are some of his greatest compositions, in my opinion. With that said, Stanley Kubrick's editing choices were as brilliant as his directorial vision of '2001: A Space Odyssey.' His decision to strike the suggested soundtrack was spot on.
I wish that whoever directed the BD rerelease a few years ago took the ALIEN Quadrilogy route and allowed viewers to either watch with the final or North score. I'd love to see a remixed recut including the unused tracks.
North score (as nice as it sounds) is way too contemporary and forces the film too much into a certain decade. The pieces Kubrick chose had both stood the test of time and also sounded original and different enough to don't make the film look or feel dated. This is also why that film still feels so fresh and ageless.
Kubrick made the right decision regarding the soundtrack. And the footage of Kubrick on the set of 2001: Fantastic, never seen it before like to see more.
According to at least one source I came across, MGM was getting nervous about the length of time Kubrick was taking with 2001, so he put together a reel for them scored with the classical temp track. They were enthusiastic about it and completely on board with using Wagner, Strauss et al.
Kubrick made the right choice. The classical pieces give 2001 that, along with the film's impressive visuals, make this film a timeless classic that looks as fresh today as it did back in the 60s
The Orchestral score for Star Wars is the reason movie soundtracks are the way they are today. If it wasn't for 2001's classical score, however, it's very possible Lucas and John Williams would've never gone that direction with the score for a science fiction movie. So 2001's score is the main reason we have orchestral music as a mainstay for movie scores these days.
Please ... please ... please redo this narration and replace the word "song" with "piece" ... songs are sung, they have lyrics. Instrumental music is properly referred to as "pieces" and in movies these pieces are called "cues" ... The terrible habit of calling instrumental pieces "songs" comes from the labelling of all musical tracks as "songs" by music services like iTunes and Spotify ... everything is called a "song" on these services so it's become common usage, but it's wrong. It just makes the analysis in this video sound amateurish IMHO.
I'm torn. Because Kubrick made the right decision. But Alex North is nothing to sneeze at. He's a brilliant composer. I'd take him 9 times out of 10 for any other film. Thankfully, Kubrick chose the other 1 out of 10 for 2001. ;)
Nope. Bernard Hermann. Listen to 'Taxi Driver' and 'Psycho.' Captured the mood perfectly. North missed the mark on this film. His music sounded 'modern' for 1968 which means it sounds dated today.
Fave Kubrick film - Dr. Strangelove. I think it embodied everything that Kubrick was about, and his entire view on humanity. And for those that say Kubrick films always end on such a downer, I'd say after Lolita - Kubrick left optimism for the future. Okay, maybe not Barry Lyndon. But Strangelove, Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut - an almost giddy conclusion of what lies ahead for the characters, and those around them. Back to Alex North, and much appreciate the tid bits unveiled here - wasn't there also a rumored 'electronic score' that Kubrick toyed with? Getting wind of Walter Carlos serious work for Switched On Bach, I thought I heard Kubrick sequester a synth whiz to see what could be cooked up for 2001? And Stan was pissed that it came out sounding like Forbidden Planet and Robinson Caruso On Mars still.
What's your favorite Kubrick film?
Obvious choice maybe...but will have to go with The Shining.
Such a beautiful film.
Eyes Wide Shut hands down
I think The Shining is far and away the most rewatchable of his films.
I only started liking this film after the 4th viewing. His films take time to process since they’re so dense.
I feel bad for north.... But it was the right choice
Yeah. I think part of it is that Kubrick strung him along. Just tell the guy. Don't have him show up to the premiere and crush him like that. Eesh.
@@EntertainTheElk You would think that being fired halfway through would have been a hint.
He should befriend Pete Best
@@guspaz He's wasn't fired. Halfway into making it, Kubrick told North that that was all the music he needed, and that he would replace the rest with breathing noises. He never fired him, or told him it would never be used.
Just think of some of the movies you like, which show their age because of contemporary scores. Kubrick wanted this movie to be timeless, and so, picked music which had, and would, stand the test of time.
Oh, that circus music from Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines... I know it's a comedy, but that shitty music kills the movie for many people...
2001 really hasn't aged at all. I watched it for the first time not long ago, amazing to think that it was made in the 60s!
Absolutely!!!!
so does the movie, it looks fantastic up to this day.
I can think of a lot of older movies which show their age by having scores 100 times better than what is heard today. This argument is empty because the idea of scores 'aging badly' is not a reasonable generalization, so you can't apply it as a principle, or even a rule of thumb.
Kubrick flat out nailed it with the music he chose, especially Blue Danube, but everything else too.
Not going to lie. I think we are all glad that we got the blue danube and zarathustra.
Yeah, totally. North's score is beautiful, but it just doesn't match as well.
The fact that they both match to the scenes better than music literally written for the film is crazy
@@worrywirt It's because Kubrick literally composed/edited with those tracks in the first place. No shit they fit better when you consider the fact that everything in the movie was paced and in tone with the test tracks. Going back in and using another soundtrack would never have the same gravitas no matter if it was specifically written for the film or not. Simply because it wasn't edited with that music in mind.
Entertain The Elk
I don’t give North’s score that much credit.
It’s too formulaic. Too busy.
Kubrick was right to go with his concept.
Abso-freaking-lutely.
Kubrick made the right choice.
You're right about that!
1000% agreed. Sorry for the dude but his pieces just didn't do it for me.
He usually did. :)
obviously!
Man, for better and worse, Kubrick put everything he had into his work.
Absolutely agree.
This is a great way to put it.
Great video, I can only say that I am incredibly grateful that North's score wasn't used because it was seeing this film that made me fall in love with classical music, to the extent that I now work in the classical music industry!
Oh wow that’s awesome! Yeah, by reaching towards the past, Kubrick made the film seem timeless.
North’s music sounds so dated. It would have anchored the film firmly as a 1960’s movie, rather than a timeless masterpiece.
Completely agree.
Same here. Some of north’s pieces, like eat meat and kill or space station docking, had me looking for Charleston Heston.
Great point.
Yes definitely, Kubrick got it right without a doubt.
As opposed to using mostly 19th century music?
I cannot hear The Blue Danube without seeing in my mind, that incredible Space Wheel and Spaceship. Kubrick was definitely the master of combining music with visual spectacle. As for the opening Planet, moon and emerging Sun sequence, nothing would have surpassed Kubrick's choice of Also Sprach Zarathustra, MAGNIFICENT!!
I watch 2001 a couple of times a year, and it blows me away. The film is 50 years old, but you'd never had guessed. I feel if Kubrick hadn't picked timeless pieces of music, the film wouldn't have become timeless. Music will always force the view back to that era, but timeless music doesn't have an era. It was the correct choice in not using Norths score.
Wow, had no idea about the alternate soundtrack, great vid
Thanks so much! Isn’t it bizarre hearing different music with those images?
@@EntertainTheElk - Pink Floyd seems to work pretty well. 😉😎
I couldn't help notice how North's music seems to date the movie, yet the choice of using classical scores somehow gives the film a more timeless quality.
i couldnt disagree more, i just watched for the first time tonight, and yes the first minutes soundtrack is iconic, but the rest of the orchestrial soundtrack made it feel COMPLETELY DATED.... totally out of place and did not match any feeling to the actual film... that silly ballet sound is so out of place
These types of videos really make me appreciate Kubrick’s film more. I’ve always known him to be brilliant, but something as quote-on-quote simple as the theme song (‘Also Sprach Zarathustra’) with its extremely deep meaning is just amazing!
I can't imagine 2001 without the classical pieces used. The Blue Danude/docking sequence is the most beautiful scene from any SF film.
I assume Kubric knew best how to assemble a Kubric film, but I'd love to hear North's interpretation. I wonder if there's an "official" (or unofficial) edit that restores it to the most likely place, even if it's incomplete. I think it's fascinating experiencing a movie with a different score, how it much it can transmutate - most often with silent films, but Ridley Scott's Legend is one later example.
Yeah there’s a website that pushes North’s score and tries best to pinpoint the moments in the film, but it will never fit perfectly because Kubrick edited to the songs he used. It’s still an interesting exercise!
North's version just sounds like a typical 60s movie theme.
AWFULL!
Yeah, very heavy-handed.
He reused them in "In the shoes of the Fisherman"
That sounds just about right. North's main title simply doesn't match the power and punch of the introduction to Richard Strauss's "Zarathustra".
2001 as it is has a very deep and mysterious and intelligent sensibility all the way through, even the spooky voice music. North's music would have been all wrong. I don't like mood music trying to lead my emotions. Its akin to a laugh track in that sense. Let me lose myself in the movie!
Fantastic job Stanley Kubrick!
Agreed.
I remember reading somewhere that part of his thinking was that the masters of composition exist within the world of music, not film composition. Why hire someone new to create music when the classical masters already did it best hundreds of years ago?
Yeah exactly. He definitely preferred the greats who wrote music meant to be played live in a huge auditorium as opposed to film composers who I guess he felt would limit themselves to fit the film.
That other score could have killed the vibe of the film. Kubrick made the right choice!
These sequences are so iconic now (and have been replicated time and time again) that it's difficult to realize how novel they were in their time. This video gives me a new perspective on Kubrick's films. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
I saw 2001 as a kid when it first came out. Even at age 7 I remember thinking, "movies will never be the same." A new world opened up.
Wow ... I am so glad for Kubrick's choices for 2001 regarding the music. I used to own the vinyl -- amazing music.
I always felt like the only tonal music (i.e. the non-Ligeti stuff) that existed in space was reflections we brought with ourselves from our past. That’s why the compiled soundtrack works for me in a way North’s music never could.
Absolutely agree!
FWIW: I have certainly not seen all of Kubrick films, but one thing that stands out to me from the ones I have seen is that his films have a timeless quality to them.
They don't have that _dated_ [vibe?] that {at least some} _older_ motion pictures do.
Nice piece, Elk!
Feel bad for North, on how Kubrick treated him, but he made the right choice. The film simply wouldn't be the timeless classic and piece of art it will always be. It was instantly a timeless classic, much like the music Kubrick went with. North's score would have, possibly, caused the film to fall away into the rest of 1960's sci-fi. Somehow, North's music would have lightened the film, trivialized it, as good as his compositions were... for "regular" films.
“Kubrick micro-managed everything”...well it is his movie so...
So? Most of the times directors can't get their full vision on screen due to studio interferences.
@@IcarusSuite Very true!
Thank God Kubrick always stood firm and never let studios overrule him. His music selections were brilliant and North's score is generic. It's sad that the human race has devolved to this point where there will never be any more movie directors like Kubrick.
I like North's score, having scooped up the Goldsmith recording a while back, but only in the light of film scores from that era. As he worked to make it sound contemporary it winds up sounding dated and slightly bombastic. Kubrick by far made the correct choice. And this is my favorite Kubrick film, closely followed by Barry Lyndon.
Agreed. By reaching in to the past, Kubrick made the film timeless.
I agree
'Barry Lyndon' is a subtle, marvelous, masterpiece! To this day, many people have never seen that film!
The alternate soundtrack for 2001's opening sequence sounds like it belongs to a horror movie
it's based on the opening of Also sprach Zarathustra. Don't know where you get the horror movie notion from ...
As a young child, I always associated this with Dracula. Don't know why I got this wrongly wired in my brain.
Welcome back man, 2001 a space odessay is one of my favourite film
Good to be back! Yeah, 2001 is one of the greatest of all time.
No question about it! It is the greatest film ever made, IMHO!
It was Kubrick's movie and he did what he wanted to do. Good thing to because Kubrick's choices made 2001 what it became. A movie that not only inspired countless other great movies, but a movie that has effects hard to rival even to this day.
I saw it in original Cinerama.
Freddy Lubin - so did I - it was spectacular!
I finally saw it in Cinerama, during it's re-release 2 years ago at the Arclight theater in Hollywood, which still has it's original Cinerama screen in place. It's a great theater complex. If you're ever in Los Angeles, go see a film at the Arclight! Fabulous cinema!
So did I and I still have the souvenir booklet that was handed out at the showing.
Norths score is fantastic, but the music really does date the movie to it's era. Where as the classical music helps 2001 to remain timeless. It's a great score for a different movie.
Because of the way The Blue Danube was used here, that music is now forever synonymous with space and the majesty and beauty of space. In addition, that classical music actually makes this movie totally future proof. Others may argue newer movies look 'more realistic', but 2001 still has the best effects, and is the best science fiction movie ever. Tons of little touches make this so as well. For example, listen to the computer voice of HAL 9000
A lot of people love to gripe about how "slow" the action is in 2001. Honestly, 2001 looks far more realistic as far as the EVA scenes are concerned. Watch a real space-walk and you'll wish it was as "fast" as the ones in 2001.
@@Mumblix Totally agreed! Tons of other details. For example, check out how the attendants walks in micro gravity and how they help the passengers, the environments aboard the space stations, etc. Even a "simple" attendant working in zero or micro gravity would be very highly paid professionals
At first I assumed Kubrick was just biased toward the tracks he'd already been hearing the whole time, but upon actually hearing it, yeah that soundtrack just straight up sounds like something out of Willy Wonka, I totally understand
In film scores the musical pieces are called CUES, not "songs". The Ric-hard Strauss Also Sprach Zarathustra is a tone poem, not a song...... Otherwise an interesting look at this controversial subject and welcome exposure for Alex North, one of the few authentic genuises of Hollywood scoring.
@@shiwomino5775 No. Songs are sung ... that's why they're called "songs". Songs have lyrics. This is all instrumental music ... not "songs" at all.
Anacapa Ross This may be true, but it’s really tiresome to hear the snobs blabbering about how ‘technically they’re not songs’. This video is not intended to be a college course about music, it’s just a brief explanation on the subject of ONE film, for laypeople who don’t want a lengthy explanation of the difference between ‘song’ and other forms of music. Most people aren’t looking for that when they are interested in a movie. The title of the video doesn’t even mention music.
@@jamescarter3196 Not a "snob" ... just a musician. If someone doesn't respect the basic terminology of an art form then they have very little or no business "explaining" anything about it. The video is about the music of the movie 2001 ... so the title doesn't have the word "music" in it ... but it's all about the music ... and it certainly disrespects the art form of music to mis-label instrumental pieces as "songs" , but also disrespects the intended audience for this video. Why do you think it's OK to give "laypeople" people misinformation? The word "song" has a specific meaning in music ... it's very simple ... it's not "snobbish" to point this out, just like it wouldn't be "snobbish" to point out any other blatant inaccuracy in a supposedly educational or informative video like this one. What if the video referred to 2001 as a "TV Show" ... Would that be ok? No ... because it's a "movie" and the music in that movie is not a bunch of "songs". What's your problem with this?
@@Newstetter Well said, Mark. Thank you for speaking up.
"welcome exposure for Alex North, one of the few authentic genuises[sic] of Hollywood scoring."... stated as fact, not as opinion; that is epic level snob right there.
Kubrick absolutely made the right decision - no question - the music he chose was totally inspired and carried with it a touch of pure genius. Kubrick was an astonishing director who instinctively knew what was right for his incredible movies.
Not that North's compositions were bad. They were much more in line with pictures from late 1960's Hollywood, than the specific vision Kubrick had for his picture to become almost timeless
OMG! How different 2001: A Space Odyssey would have been with the original music. I'm so glad Kubrick went the direction he did, it made the movie what it is. It was so important in 2001, with its lack of dialogue. Imagine, in the multiverse somewhere Kubrick kept the music. I wonder how well 2001 has done there.
What about those crazy Ligeti pieces? I wonder what those replacements were like
In my research, I don't think North wrote anything that was eventually replaced by Ligeti. Ligeti's opening number before the title cards and with the monolith didn't have a North equivalent. Would've been interesting to see what he came up with.
Zak M I think those parts were originally supposed to sound like the Hawaii 5-0 theme, was gonna be so rad... oh well...
Had the chance to see this movie on real film - The Dawn of Man transition into space going from Almost silent to a very loud classical piece was very effective! North clearly had talent, but I'm glad Kubrick was this detail oriented and honest enough to cut out North's work. Great video!
I know nothing about music, so it's fun when I notice similarities between composers' scores. For example, watching "Doctor Zhivago" for the tenth time, I was suddenly reminded of music from "The Collector". I checked and...hey, Maurice Jarre wrote them both! Today, at 0:36, I hear excerpts of North's "2001", and I think "Dragonslayer". Yup, ten seconds later I see they're both his.
I recall a similar comparison of film music composers a while back. That was Sir William Walton vs. Ron Goodwin for "The Battle of Britain," though the "fighter melee" scene used Sir William's "Battle In The Air," which gave the audience a feel for the life-or-death struggle.
Kubric knew his stuff. From the sounds of this video what North wrote sounds sooo dated.
Yeah. North was trying to sound progressive for the time, but even now it sounds like it’s from the 60s.
No doubt a broad lesson on progressiveness we would all do well to learn from to this day :p
Kubrick films always have this sense of timelessness, specifically 2001. Weeks ago I saw Paths of Glory (the one with Kirk Douglas) and is a incredible period piece but somehow that's what makes it ageless
Paths of Glory is phenomenal. You're right, all his films stand the test of time.
And it was royalty free, part of the reason Pink Floyd was considered but rejected. Pink Floyd spun it that it was their artistic integrity that declined the offer. Atom Heart Mother synchronizes to 2001 as well.
Interesting video as I hadn't heard any of North's original scores before - and I do think Kubrick made the right decision.
Just a note - songs are for singing. Music written for instruments only are not generally referred to as "songs".
This definition of ‘song’ is pretty pointless here, and some of the 2001 soundtrack does include vocals. Are you sure jazz musicians don’t play songs? How about ‘Misirlou’ by Dick Dale, not a song? If it’s an ‘instrumental’... an instrumental WHAT?
Even a film I haven't seen is made interesting by you, Adam.
Thank you so much!! Now go do yourself a favor and watch 2001! :)
Kubrick got it right on choosing the temp tracks. But it surprises me that he didn't told North that his score would not be used. It's such a simple gesture (and a professional one, to me at least)
Congratulations on 200k, ETE! Keep up the good work
Thanks so much!! :)
"Songs" are music with lyrics and someone singing. A musical piece without lyrics and singing is just music.
I saw 2001 when it came out, in a huge theater of 1100 seats. Hearing The Blue Danube while seeing space travel of the future was a revelation, especially since we had been told this was the most scientifically accurate sci-fi film ever. Instead of showing us something crass and busy like Star Wars would some years later, 2001 showed it being graceful and coordinated like a waltz, but even more so. By going with classical music, Kubrick prevented 2001 from being stuck in the present, and made the audience reimagine classical music in a futuristic context. In North's score, you can hear a little bit of movie scores like Spartacus, Cleopatra, The Misfits, and even A Streetcar Named Desire. You wouldn't have been able to watch the film without becoming mired in these associations. But whatever associations you might have had for those classical pieces, they would forever be replaced with scenes from 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Thank you so much for MUBI, I tried your 30 month free trial about a month ago and I loved it. Saw a bunch of new films that have become my favourites, thanks
That's awesome!! And thanks so much for using my promo code. It definitely helps the channel. :)
This was absolutely incredible. I am such a huge fan of the film and never knew of this! I especially loved the graphic match at 1:14/1:15 which I have replayed at least 6 times now and will continue to. Thank you so much!
Thanks! I liked that cut too. When you’re editing, you’re not always sure how to transition, but then happy accidents like that happen. :)
Ligeti's choral work Lux Aeterna was included without Ligeti's permission and violated copyright laws. Including Ligeti and that 50s-60s musical genre clearly locks the film in the 1960s. One thing for sure is that it inspired a lot of concert goers to attend pops concerts at local symphony programs, but, few go out to hear Lux Aeterna for the same reasons.
Kubrick originally wanted to make a film about UFOs but Clarke talked him out of it. He was also interested in Clarke's Childhood's end. I wonder what Kubrick's take on Close Encounters would have been?
Wonder what 'A.I.' would have been like without Spielberg.
watched the movie a few days ago
stunning
but I think the shining is Kubrick's best film I've seen so far
still a fantastic film
Patrik Öhrström No, The Shining is not Kubrick’s best film. Great horror film but among his work, it stands in the shadows of Clockwork Orange, 2001, Barry Lyndon and Dr. Strangelove.
@@jamescarter3196 that's fair
The Blue Danube. Makes me happy to hear knowing I don't have to manually dock my cutter.
Not songs... songs have lyrics. The word you are looking for is cue.
@@shiwomino5775 Ummm... no. Songs are words (or wordless vocals) set to music. It requires a vocal to be called a song. In the film music world, wordless (non-vocal) pieces of music are called cues. Or you could say track.
@@shiwomino5775 Erik's right. Songs only involve pieces of music with a vocal part. Yes, there are some pieces for piano by Mendelssohn and Brahms that are called 'Songs without Words', and there is a Symphony by Gorecki that has a subtitle with the word 'Songs' in it, but they are the exceptions to the rule.
One of the main points about the use of "The Blue Danube Waltz" is that the waltz dance moves in circles, and at this point mankind is stuck moving in pointless circles, again in need of inspiration from the monolith. Every visual element in the segments using this music show circular movements and man's still apparent primitivism (watching judo matches, nationalistic posturing around the new "watering hole" of the drinks at the table). This will contrast with the radically different forward movement and music of investigating the monolith, and then Bowman's trip through the stargate.
North's music is interesting, but it's completely impossible to imagine it being used.
I have found, for my taste, that most sound tracks detract from a good movie. Even when I like the background score it is often to loud. In Apocalypse Now, music is actually embedded in the movie as in a radio playing on a river boat while they go upriver. Also Forest Gump used prerecorded pop songs from the era the movie was set in. Thus Spoke God (Zarathustra).
There is a book called Lost Worlds of 2001, Clarke wrote it and it went over how the script was developed it including details of the various drafts, changes in plot and anecdotes over how the film was shot etc. The book has been out of print for over 45 years but if you like the film, it is worthwhile sourcing a copy if possible.
Kubrick was right. If North's scores had been used, the film would sound like a film from the 60's, whereas as released, it has become timeless.
This is a score for something with the feel of a Hollywood epic like what North did for Spartacus where Kubrick was a director-for-hire. I like it by itself but it is the wrong tone for 2001 so Kubrick was right to cut it out.
The North soundtrack was eventually released on CD a few years ago, so it exists for posterity.
North's work sounds like Planet of the Apes soundtrack to me. Maybe they are both from the same guy, but by now they appear outdated and very distinct of the 60s. On contrast, the music Kubrik picked almost sounds timeless. Maybe they will fall sound outdated at some point, but for now, the score just sounds timeless and thus cant fall out of fashion since it never was _IN_ fashion.
The Planet of the Apes soundtrack ('70's, not the recent remakes) was composed by Jerry Goldsmith. Sounds dated and generically spastic listening to it now, much as the North soundtrack.
Having collected and heard the Alex North score, mostly connected with the scenes intended, I believe North was successful; the flight to the space station is accompanied by music that screams 'this is the whirlpool kitchen of tomorrow'.
The emphasis on technology over humanity is exactly right, IMO.
I wonder if Kubrick knew that using timeless WORKS (not songs) of classical music would remind people of 2001 whenever they heard them outside of seeing the film. It's a very clever effect. How can anyone whose seen the film not think of the opening when hearing Zarathustra? ... or the docking of the PanAm clipper while listening to the first soft notes of the Blue Danube? I certainly can't.
Kubrick made the music in 2001 memorable, it fit so well to the movie that you can never replace it. I am still sad that such a great director is not with us making more movies.
Me, too......
I would love this music in a movie now. Like even though it doesn't fit the theme of 2001 it's still beautiful retro sci-fi music that was just never used.
I think North actually used a song or two in one of his future movies. I remember seeing that in my research but I forgot the movie!
The booklet of the Intrada release of Alex North's score is pretty interesting, when it comes to telling the story of how many attempts were made at creating the score. Interestingly Stanley Kubrick wanted Carl Orff to write the music for a long time, but the composer declined to continue working on his last piece "De temporum fine comoedia".
North's soundtrack gives me the feeling I get when I flick channels and an Elvis Presley movie is on.
I think Alex North's music could possibly work well with the ape scenes where silence was used instead. I really like the Pink Floyd synchronization to the Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite scene. Overall, I definitely think Kubrick's decision seems to have been the right choice.
*_...one thing that didn't work in Kubrick's choice of music was the floating pen, _**_04:48_**_, where a waltz would have a few-things, turning-shifting-in-sync, pen, pad, cellphone, mimicking the outside... North's is NewsDate + B-movie + LAX Muzak _**_00:31_**_, _**_04:58_**_..._*
Thanks for this essay man. It's very well made and enlightening.
Glad you liked it!!
As a massive Alex North fan (I consider him one of the greatest composers to have ever lived), I didn't think I would agree with take, but I have to say you are totally on point. North's music for this film was gorgeous, but would not have fitted nearly as well as the classical music did.
I’ve doing 2001 film/soundtrack analysis recently
Then this video pops up
Hope it helps!
ive finished the paper. it was great analysing the movie.
One story about 2001, was that Kubrick was editing the film aboard a train since Kubrick didn’t like flying. He was listening to Johann music and love the pacing. Also, if you listen carefully to both the film and the music itself. You will notice that the film version is a little faster too. Unfortunately North music more like a documentary soundtrack.
The only composer that might have come close was Bernard Hermann. Citizen Kane, Psycho, and Taxi Driver are some of his greatest compositions, in my opinion. With that said, Stanley Kubrick's editing choices were as brilliant as his directorial vision of '2001: A Space Odyssey.' His decision to strike the suggested soundtrack was spot on.
I wish that whoever directed the BD rerelease a few years ago took the ALIEN Quadrilogy route and allowed viewers to either watch with the final or North score. I'd love to see a remixed recut including the unused tracks.
That would be fascinating.
North's score sounds like the distilled essence of MGM movies.
Kubrick made the right decision. If he had used North's music the film would have been greatly diminished.
Yes. Kubrick was right in his score, timeless as sh-t! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼❤️
I would watch both versions of the movie with both scores
North score (as nice as it sounds) is way too contemporary and forces the film too much into a certain decade. The pieces Kubrick chose had both stood the test of time and also sounded original and different enough to don't make the film look or feel dated. This is also why that film still feels so fresh and ageless.
Kubrick made the right decision regarding the soundtrack. And the footage of Kubrick on the set of 2001: Fantastic, never seen it before like to see more.
Kubrick filmed the space landing.
He insisted going to the location.
:)
According to at least one source I came across, MGM was getting nervous about the length of time Kubrick was taking with 2001, so he put together a reel for them scored with the classical temp track. They were enthusiastic about it and completely on board with using Wagner, Strauss et al.
Kubrick made the right choice. The classical pieces give 2001 that, along with the film's impressive visuals, make this film a timeless classic that looks as fresh today as it did back in the 60s
Agreed. By reaching into the past, he made 2001 timeless.
Dark Side of the Odyssey. Let’s do this thing.
:)
Eeyyeah that sound track would have rained the movie. Especially the beginning, the silence has a greater impact.
Alex North vs. Classical music tracks reminds me of Sir William Walton's music for "The Battle of Britian" vs. Ron Goodwin's "Aces High" introduction.
2001 stands out for straight cinematic genius. Decades ahead if its time. No other movie I know steps out of the loop of time so anachronistically
Adroitly put
The Orchestral score for Star Wars is the reason movie soundtracks are the way they are today. If it wasn't for 2001's classical score, however, it's very possible Lucas and John Williams would've never gone that direction with the score for a science fiction movie. So 2001's score is the main reason we have orchestral music as a mainstay for movie scores these days.
Please ... please ... please redo this narration and replace the word "song" with "piece" ... songs are sung, they have lyrics. Instrumental music is properly referred to as "pieces" and in movies these pieces are called "cues" ... The terrible habit of calling instrumental pieces "songs" comes from the labelling of all musical tracks as "songs" by music services like iTunes and Spotify ... everything is called a "song" on these services so it's become common usage, but it's wrong. It just makes the analysis in this video sound amateurish IMHO.
Also sprach Zaratusthra is key to this Great movie.
I'm torn. Because Kubrick made the right decision. But Alex North is nothing to sneeze at. He's a brilliant composer. I'd take him 9 times out of 10 for any other film. Thankfully, Kubrick chose the other 1 out of 10 for 2001. ;)
Nope. Bernard Hermann. Listen to 'Taxi Driver' and 'Psycho.' Captured the mood perfectly. North missed the mark on this film. His music sounded 'modern' for 1968 which means it sounds dated today.
Fave Kubrick film - Dr. Strangelove. I think it embodied everything that Kubrick was about, and his entire view on humanity. And for those that say Kubrick films always end on such a downer, I'd say after Lolita - Kubrick left optimism for the future. Okay, maybe not Barry Lyndon. But Strangelove, Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut - an almost giddy conclusion of what lies ahead for the characters, and those around them. Back to Alex North, and much appreciate the tid bits unveiled here - wasn't there also a rumored 'electronic score' that Kubrick toyed with? Getting wind of Walter Carlos serious work for Switched On Bach, I thought I heard Kubrick sequester a synth whiz to see what could be cooked up for 2001? And Stan was pissed that it came out sounding like Forbidden Planet and Robinson Caruso On Mars still.
Kubrick's choices are much more tasteful than the "square" North compositions. Kubrick understood his art form and the late 60's paradigm.
Saw 2001 in a concert-movie event last month, what a treat !
That’s awesome. I saw the film in Los Angeles with a live orchestra. It was spectacular.