UPDATE: Thank you to those who shared helpful additional insights! I wanted to pin them here so anyone watching can take note of some things I missed: - Because Ortlieb's lower rail is removable, it can be reversed, allowing for more lower hook positions - Vaude's panniers come with optional straps. But they aren't part of the securing mechanism like Ortlieb, so you need to take them out and clip them in when you would like to use them. I, personally, found it too much of a nuisance to dig them out and install, so never really used them. But that is an option if having straps is important to you!
One advantage for the ortliebs is you can install a metal cable into the top rail where you can loop it around the rack with a lock to keep someone from slipping the bag off the rack while your away from the bike.
Great video. I have a couple of old Karrimor bags, probably about 40 years old. I recently waxed them to make them a little more water proof but I will use dry bags inside for anything that must not get wet. Looking at some of the comments I think I'm going to stick with what I have. They are also really simple with nothing that I can't repair, not that they have every broken.
I currently use one Vaude (without the added 'pouch') for my laptop, office clothes and big chain lock on my cycling commute. I've had it for 5 years now and it is still doing great. But of course these are not really tough conditions. A colleague who used an Ortlieb had some damage to the backside of the bag, making me like the one piece back side of the Vaude more. But seeing this video, I must agree the fact that almost all parts can be replaced on the Ortlieb is a big advantage in the long run. When the time comes, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for a great comparison!
I use 4 ortlieb front classic rollers plus a rack pack 24 litre across the rear. Balance-equilibrium is everything. I've completed 8K km tours across the EU by road without luggage problems. Only drawback with front panniers I've noticed is the increased air resistance especially on mountain passes. They knock 20kph off downhill speed. Best wishes
Excellent video. I have a pair of Ortlieb "front roller" panniers which are smaller than yours. The biggest downside is that there is nothing besides the main compartment: no pockets. I guess it's called roller because you roll the top down, and it's nice for keeping water out. It's called front because it's intended for a front rack, and I've used them on front and back. The buckles on mine broke, so I notified Ortlieb directly. They said it was a defect of theirs, and they could have gotten away with not saying so. They sent me replacement buckles. I'm impressed.
Thank you. Like you, we (my wife and I) have had significant problems with the Vaud lower hooks (why you would not buy further Vauds). My wife's lower hook came off and was temporarily lost; when found, I managed to reattach it. On another occasion, it broke. I had to order a replacement and this was extremely difficult (none at Amazon and many other suppliers); I managed to source them from France. But then I cannot find a way to install the new hook (physically it appears to be impossible without dismantling the back, which is not possible). So we will be replacing these with Ortlieb panniers. (Moreover, despite Google searches, I could not find instructions relating to the lower hook; there were instructions by Vaud on replacing the upper attachment).
I'm sorry to hear you've had trouble as well! One time when I reached out to them they sent me a link to a video about how to reinstall the hook, but I can't find it anymore so I don't know if they took it down. Basically, you put the silver oval into the rail, and then you use something flat like a flathead screwdriver to prop it up so you can screw the hook in. Actually, at 5:08 in this old video, you can see how we did it - th-cam.com/video/q0qKs-r48wA/w-d-xo.html Not very convenient and it did ultimately pop out again, but we were at least able to get it working for a bit. I hope that's helpful if you want to get yours working again!
I found that I didn't like the price, style or color of commercial panniers so I bought sailboat sail material from Sailrite & sewed them up on my trusty 1946 Kenmore sewing machine. I mounted them on Arkel hardware. Excellent material. Bombproof & the color & style to my liking. It was way cheaper & now I have what I wanted. A couple people have asked why I don't sell custom panniers. No way. Too much of a headache. Just wanted to let viewers know that you have that option if you can get a cheap old sewing machine. Sewing is easy to learn. P.S. all the buckles, clips & straps can be found on the internet.
Don't forget to mount on the rack some sort of abrasion protection otherwise your bags going to be punctured in time mine got almost punctured with minimal usage.
Vaude bags work for me well. I use the bags only on the front as i had the chance to use a dutch bike with front loading rack during a vacation. The positioning on the front made the whole thing very stable and for two weeks this Gazelle bike replaced our car for groceries. But never had the chance to use ortlieb bags
I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2016 and almost every bike that passed me had the Ortlieb panniers on the back with their instantly recognisable reflective patch. So many in fact that I initially thought the reflective patch must be a legal requirement. Before buying my panniers I did some research on them and the Ortlieb panniers had universal acclaim. I bought mine second hand (I've bought a blue matching set and a yellow matching set complete with handle bar bag) and they're bomb proof. The shoulder carrying strap is very useful if you've got to carry three bags upstairs into a hostel or albergue. I did buy a front pannier rack and bags (again second hand) but never used them. The reasoning being that if you've got that additional space, you'll fill it. Backpacking is definitely a case of "less is more". I recently did the South Downs Way, a hundred mile trip over hill and dale. The weight on my bike was too much even for that short ride and it was a major problem pushing a heavy bike up steep hills. Thanks for your video, they're all very entertaining and informative.
I was in Berlin for a few days and lots of people travel by bicycle. Here too almost everyone has Ortlieb! Ortlieb and Vaude are both german brands, but I would say 75% of the bags were Ortlieb, the rest 25% distributed between Vaude and other brands
Ortlieb sells an oval rail, so if you want it to be more like the Vaude you can swap the stock rail out. Also, I would recommend swapping out your top bungee cords for rack loading with a pair of Rok commuter straps. You'll understand why when you look at their design.
You can make your own commuter straps with old road tubes that bike shops throw away and buy the clips from a chandlers or online. Cheap effective and recycled.
Putting all the bike touring weight on the back, and having none at all in the front results in a dangerously unstable bike. Hair-pin descents, for example, demands that there be at least some percentage of the bike touring weight be on the front wheel. Otherwise, to be clear, one's front wheel can slip out from below so fast that you go down faster than gravity. Balance out your bike touring rig. Better to use four half-full bags, and that is far, far safer than packing everything on the back. I lived on a bicycle for over three years of my life over several different long tours. Safety first.
I can't stand weight over the front at all have not experienced instability, probably not as experienced as yourself but have done many multi week tours , 3 weeks my longest heavy loaded and many speedy descents , perhaps because I've ridden a dedicated touring bike geometry Lynskey viale, totally stable
I tried both, I like the Ortlieb better except the closing strap. I don't use the carry strap or the side buckles at all, I only use the central closing strap and. And this strap opens and closes on the inside on the Ortlieb and outside on the Vaude. When I not only have our tent but I have a bag on the top of my rack sometimes it makes closing the strap closing on the inside hard or in cases impossible. Depending on the trip this might not be a problem when I only have a mat on the top of my rack but for other trips where we bring trad climbing gear, ropes, glacier gear, crampons, ice axes, climbing boots, helmets, shit ton of food, ect it does not fit in two paniers, a small backpack, frame and a handlebar bags and it requires me to put a big haulbag across my paniers which makes opening the Ortliebs roadside impossible so I use them for climbing gear, warm clothing and stuff that I don't need during the day. I tried Ortlieb and Vaude handlebar bags as well but can't decide yet. I stiched my own two frame bags from an old windsurf sail one is bigger and the other can be used with a bottle holder. As for the bag on top/across the paniers it differs by trip if it's just biking there is only our tent or a thermarest there if it's more remote or Im on food duty I put a 20l climbing backpack there which could be changed to a 40l or 60l haulbag if we are climbing as well. If we only need sport climbing gear that fits in a ponier with a 60m rope, if it's easy mountaineering and we only need a 30m glacier rope (interestingly glacier gear is smaller and lighter than sport climbing gear) for these the 40l is enough on top of the poniers but if it's more hard trad/alpine climbing or a high altitude (above 6000m) we bring a 60l edelrid haulbag. I wouldn't bring other then the frame bag, handlebar bag and a thermarest on the rack for like a divide kind of thing where you need to use fast and light techniques. Ps. I found that the Vaudes lower rail is more repairable and also the fabric is more easily stiched and glued roadside then the Ortlieb but the Ortlieb needed less repair.
Ortlieb user but having said that I have punished and overloaded my Vaude panniers (Aqua back deluxe) on my daily commute and they're great value too given they're usually a lot cheaper. From a use and function point there's very little in it other than price. Just remember to periodically tighten all the hook adjusters. On both brands.
I ride a recumbent trike now rather than a bicycle. Will use the vaude 24l panniers. For more room will swap one or both to 35l Ortilieb backroller XT plus panniers. For more space,use the CycloneIV triailer and Ortlieb35l or vaude 24l depening on how much Space needed. On a trike, adding weight to the rear improves grip ton rear wheel,weight does not effect handling, but the suspension stiffness needs changing which makes me prefer just using the trailer.
I have products from both brands but heard some tourists on a German channel pronounce Vaude (Fawdt) or (Fawde).. not sure which is correct, but then again everyone pronounces Panniers differently. One other thing about the Ortlieb rail, I think you can install the oval rail from the Sport rollers on the back and/or you can flip the one you have upside down (if needed)
Vaude is pronounced using two syllables. Germans think it's French so they say vhoad like toad with a V. But actually it Fow like in vow. Fow- day. It's a German company.
Thanks so much for the video! I’ve always admired Ortlieb pannier bags, even though I haven’t had the chance to own one myself. Right now, I’m using some budget-friendly Rhino Walks from Amazon. They've served me well and seem surprisingly durable, holding up against a lot of wear and tear, plus they’ve braved plenty of rain, considering I ride my bike every day, even through Boston’s harsh winters. My only issue with them is their size-they have a maximum capacity of 27 liters, which isn't quite enough for my needs. I’m curious about the Ortlieb 40-liter bags. Could you let me know their dimensions in both their folded state and when they are fully expanded? Specifically, I’m interested in how big they are when the bag is folded down to its smallest carry level and when it is opened up to accommodate larger items.
I bought some Ortlieb panniers in Europe to rekit myself after everything was stolen back in Hamburg in 2013. They replaced my MEC's new World Tour edition which was no loss. I loved the originals and used them for years but there comes a time when they are falling apart, so I bought another set but I wasn't to happy with MEC's redesign of the Serratus pannier. I really didn't like the Ortliebs either. One of the things I didn't like about them was they clips (I had a couple of issues on the last part of that tour) and having to get something out of them in the pouring rain. I gave them to my step son who was living in the UK. I like the idea of waterproof panniers. When I got back I started hunting around and one that caught my attention was Arkel. A Canadian company and I have seen their panniers all over the world on touring bikes and I ended up getting the 48L Dolphins. Nobody that I have encountered make better rack clips then Arkel. Ortlieb's Clip system is much improved from when I bought mine. Are they still plastic? One can buy Arkel clip system separately if you considered upgrading them. I really like the Dolphin outside water sealed pocket for putting stuff that you might need on the road which makes Vaude more attractive to me. I like the Dophin's four water bottle pockets on the outside of my Dolphins because I ran out of water once crossing when I was crossing the Anarchist Pass in 40+C (and I still suffer from a little PTSD from that experience). Are they perfect? NO! but not too bad. Firstly those water bottle pockets are not as tough as I would like them to be but it means that you don't have to put water type liquids inside your panniers. When one has those 48L panniers stuffed to the gills they make ones ride kind of wide and, hey, I ride a trike. Getting through some trail gates can be a pain. I was a back packer for years so putting everything into bags in my panniers comes naturally and the need for water proof panniers doesn't strike me as critical. I am contemplating switching over to a trailer (I bought a third hand Radical Design Cyclone trailer with extras) which would allow me dump my racks and panniers and duffel, which acts as my luggage when I fly. The trailer acting like a duffel becomes my flying luggage plus my trike in padded trike bag when flying. The trailer came with a carrying strap and the wheels can be put towards the end of the trailer, turning it into rolling luggage. I have not tried touring with it yet? I haven't thought of those Ortlieb panniers in years but they sure irritated me when I had them. 🤣 just me on a rant 🤣
Hey Sheelagh, Great video, great timing. I was doubting which one to buy and ultimately bought the Vaude aqua back (non plus). But I am gonna return them and get the Ortlieb classic back roller. The straps, replacable parts and the tearing prolbem at the welts, which I read in forums and other reviews, have made me regret my purchase. Thanks for helping me make the decision :).
Had a Vaude pannier. Broke after 2+ years. No warranty, no repair option cheaper than buying new ones. Now with Ortlieb for 2+ years, still as good as new.
I have a pair of Ortlieb Back-Roller Plus (besides matching Front-Roller Rack-Pack + Ultimate2) for 26 Years and I use + abbuse them nearly every day for everything all year for commuting most of my grocery runs carry all kind of things overload them regulary and of course for touring, I'm 57 bicycle is my major means of transportation never owned a car. After that time only the reflective prints wear partly off, I got one little puncture in one bag which was easy to fix with some SeamGrip and two buckles broke but you can still buy the pre '98 spare buckles from Ortlieb and a local shoemaker replaced it for me. It's a testament of their built quality and design they last the cordura fabric don't show any relative sign of abrasion or disintegration but tend to look always little dirty, I guess it does not get more utilitarian.
If you paid for the Vaude bags with a card, the transaction on the statement should be sufficient for a proof of purchase. It is in Australia anyway. Thanks for the video, I have just purchased the Ortlieb Rack Three and I am yet to decide on the bags, I will probably go with the sport city bags. The rack itself will carry up to 30kg and the bags 9kg each. I use my bike for fitness so I will be filling the bags with a 9kg sandbag in each for a leg workout. I think the Ortlieb system should be up to the task.
I have had my Ortlieb bags (rear, front, handle bar bag and rear rack duffle) for way over a decade...I like the adjustable sizing for the pannier attachment....so they have fit perfectly on many different bikes over the years. I currently have them on my Trek 520...going to do the GAP / C&O in May 2024.
wow, you have had the exactly same experience. The bottom part of my Vaude also dropped out on one of my first rides but I was able to re-attach it. I like the flexibiliy/positioning better than witht he Ortlieb. In all other aspects, Ortlieb is better. Ortlieb also fixed the issue with the top clip that can fall in between the rails and the rail-clips when attaching it to the bike but open.
Thanks for this interesting video! BUT I must say that I made the exact opposite experience with the bags! I have the VauDe Bags (back and front) for many years now and almost never had an issue. With the Ortlieb I had a hole in it after the first summer tour to the lake; all the attachment mechanism at the Ortlieb are made of plastic and easily relocate because you can't really tighten them (e.g. with an Allen key like the VauDe hooks). Also I made the experience, that when you let go of the handle of the Ortlieb back a little too early, the bag falls off the rack because the hooks don't catch the bar. The more volume does not need to be filled 100% but is very handy e.g. when you need to store food on the way. When was it that you had VauDe bags? The warranty for the Aqua Back Plus is 5 years according to VauDe website. The difficulty of warranty issues might have something to do with you living in Canada and VauDe is a local German company. The Aqua Back Plus are manufactured and repaired in Tettnang, Germany, and maybe they wanted to make sure that you have an originally purchased bag (and not for example a second-hand one) before they order air cargo over the Atlantic.... Maybe it is easier now, I never had a warranty issue with VauDe bags. So far my experience! I really like your videos, wish you always safe journeys!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! A big part of why I wanted to make this video is for comments like yours. I knew everyone would have such different experiences! I’m sure your message will be helpful to read for others who are deciding between panniers :) I’m in Canada but vaude has a distributor here that handles warranties. I think the warranty process would have been simple if I had a proof of purchase. I’m happy to hear you haven’t had a warranty issue with your vaudes!
All in all I think both have a good quality... I have a big pack sack from Ortlieb also, which I use on the way whenever I have a wet tent to store and at home just for storing other bags, it is very durable and can be rolled up completely when not in use... and I must admit that VauDe might have a bit of a quality issue concerning their seams... sometimes when you roll it to tight or pack the bags to stuffed they might get ripped open... I think it is because the material is very stiff... I had this once with an older bag (10 YO approx.) and it might be due to the age and or to the expossure to salt in the winter ?? I hope it is better now... ❤ Thanks for sharing your experience ❤
@@SheelaghDalyby the way, the brand in Germany is pronounced VD (like the two letters read from the alphabet, nothig to do with Vaudeville or sth 😂) because the founder's and nowadays his grandchild's name is Von Dewitz...VauDe is phonetic in German for the two letters...
@@SheelaghDaly great video, as for your proof of purchase, you don’t need a receipt you just need a bank/credit card statement. Companies never tell you this but that is all you need.
I’ve got Ortlieb that I’ve had for at least 10 yrs and whilst a bit dirty and I’ve lost the shoulder strap they show no signs of wear. I’d like to get some carradice super C because I like the look more and they have some pockets, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with my ortliebs. Maybe in another decade they’ll need replacing.
Ortlieb panniers (Roller style) are the classic waterproof bag. Just an open cavity. Many will use organizer bags within the pannier. The weak link on Ortlieb is the nylon clamp system that attaches to the top of a rack. The bottom part of the attachment's design isn't designed to support weight, just to keep it stable. Think it through . . . There is a negative consequence of putting all the weight on the TOP of the rack. Some other pannier designs have found ways to shift at least some of the pannier's weight onto the lower section of the rack and therefore, the weight rides lower, and that's more stable.
I haven't tried the Arkels but I've heard great things! I'm hoping these will last me a while, but if it comes time for a new set, Arkels will certainly be up for consideration!
I've had Vaude (you do not pronounce it like you do) bags for about 10 years. Never -ever- had that thing pop out. And I change the settings on that a fair amount, most people wouldn't since you'll use it on one bike. I have no idea how you did that. I use mine for a daily commute.
I had these vaude bags and used them for my commute 2013-2020. Loved the bags, no issues whatsoever, they just got moldy and gross over a year of bad storage and no use. I’ve now used the ortlieb backroller for a few years, and liked it. However I have missed the extra pocket and space of the vaude. The ortlieb bag has now lost a couple of the screws on the back, apparently a known issue. Today I got my hands on a set of the Vaude panniers again, at a very good price. This review did give me some concern though. I didn’t have any issues with the bottom plastic thingy on my last set, so I’ll probably just put some gaffa tape on it for good measure, and hope for the best.
I can’t resist adding my thoughts to the pronunciation debate. Sheelagh is Canadian. I am also Canadian. We pronounce it pan yah (or perhaps pan ya eh 😂 as true Canadians). I don’t need to look anything up. That’s how we pronounce it here. It’s part of our dialect. Pannier is indeed a French word. Canada’s English is full of French words because of our history and because English and French are the dominant languages of Canada. Peace to all 🙏
Haha thanks for the comment fellow Canadian! Yes indeed, growing up bilingual “pan-yay” is how it always read to me and how everyone I know pronounces it. From what I’ve read the etymology is also from old French, but regardless, it’s just how I’m comfortable pronouncing it!
Vaude panniers are completely ill-considered crap, uncomfortable fasteners, additional bags on the sides instead of at the back, which first of all catch the wind while riding, making it even more difficult during steep climbs where you have to get down and push the bike, they catch on your calves, and a rather complicated locking system . If you have really good, well-thought-out panniers, then only from Crosso (I prefer Crosso expert 66)💪🏼👌🏻🤙🏼
I was on a multi-month tour, and I consistently saw Vaude breaking on people. Like every other week I'd meet a tourer with something broken, snapped, worn, torn, etc... I even saw a girl who strapped BOTH vaudes around her like dual satchels while climbing a hill. Ouch. The Ortliebs are pricey, but with care, they will last a life time.
for me it comes down to weight vs waterproof. fully waterproof panniers tend to weigh a lot more. i use cheaper less waterproof panniers from a company called decathlon. with dry bags inside. this weighs less.
mehr Schein als sein ...! Liest mal die Bewertungen, so der verschiedenen offenen Plattformen. Die Qualität hat massiv nachgelassen. Greenwashing, dafür ist VD bekannt. Meine VD Fahrradtaschen hatten sich nach einiger Zeit aufgelöst, der Kleber der Nähte hielt nicht, die Taschen bekommen einen weißlichen Film. Der Fachhändler hatte viele solche Reklamationen im Lager zu stehen. Die Rückenplatte, die Vernietungen sind gebrochen. Nutze nur noch Ortlieb, da kann Mensch die Bestandteile auch einzeln bestellen und tauschen bei Bedarf. Thema Zelt, verschweißte Nähte, dass Band löste sich, ja kann alles passieren, aber nicht wenn das Zeug neu ist und man ewig mit dem Kundenservice diskutieren muss. Der Kundenservice ist eine Katastrophe. Das Zelt war undicht und schlecht verarbeitet. Nein kein Kondenswasser. Nach 4 Monaten, ja nach 4 Monaten hatten wir das Zelt dann von Vaude zurück erhalten... es wurde ein neues gesendet. Warum hat das 4 Monate gedauert???? Kleidung und Ausrüstung kommt doch alles aus Fernost Vietnam China ... , dementsprechend ist auch die Verarbeitung und Qualität. Wir meiden komplett Vaude!!! Gibt viel bessere Hersteller!!!
It's "Vow-de" (or more accurately, "fow-de"), not "Vode". And also, "Pan-yer" or "Pan-ee-er" (the entomology of this is interesting if you're curious, but suffice to say the french pronunciation is wrong)
Good video with an objective comparison. Sometimes it just comes down to money. Purchased the Vaude Aqua back w/o the side pocket, for half the cost of the Ortiebs - easy decision. Used them on 4 trips so far and they are still in great shape. Have also had the lower rack attachment piece come loose and fall out - easy to put back in - I feel it was user error on my part for unscrewing it too far - haven't had that problem since. Reviews i've read praise both brands - but the price is the price.
First I prefer VauDe , but after the weldet seams were suddenly open without reason I changed to Ortlieb. The durability is much better, but the position of the brackets are sometimes unfortunally
One of the other issues with the top clipping into the sides like the Vaude does--it limits packing in the main compartment. With the Ortlieb, you can technically 'overpack' the bags a bit since the clips don't have a fixed thing to clip into--if that makes sense.
I own a pair of Vaude Aqua Back (without additional pocket) and it does have a pair of shoulder straps, that you can use same as with Ortlieb, included. I just checked the website and it states that Aqua Back Plus are supplied with shoulder straps as well. So that for sure was a wrong comparison
Ahh yes, good point! I have pinned a comment with this detail as well as another about the Ortlieb that I missed. I completely forgot about the optional straps as I found them a bit of a nuisance to use, especially at the end of a long riding day. But it is an option worth mentioning.
I can only talk about Ortlieb: You have a newer model. In my family we have had maybe eight of these. All of them got destroyed within two to six years. All the screws on the backside failed. Before that we had maybe ten of an older model (with five screws on the top of the back instead of three). This model is much more resilient, after more than 20 years of almost daily use and misuse some still hang around, others got stolen and only a couple got destroyed. I recently bought some of the older second hand. If some day I can’t find old ones, I would bring some screws, washers and nuts for trips. Or I will use my bikepacking setup and just use the panniers for commuting and shopping.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the different Ortlieb models - super helpful to hear! It's unfortunate that the screws have failed so much, though I am happy to know they have replacements so that hopefully doesn't mean the end of the bag? Did anything else about the newer models fail or was it solely the screws?
Not to be the language police, but pannier, although originally a French word, is pronounced pan-yr in English, you can look it up. The gear company Vaude, is a German company, and is pronounced vaad in English. Again, you can look it up. People can pronounce things any way they want, but it just sounds stilted. It is like being a native English speaker talking to a fellow American, for example, and insisting on pronouncing Paris, pah-ree (with a slightly rolled r, like a French speaker).
Eric sorry but you are defiantly a member of the language police but l would like to thank you for your correct pronunciations l can now go shopping for some pan-yr bags and sound smarter than l really am
I have used both of these as well. I like the simplicity of the ortlieb. The front pouch on Vaude is handy, though I found it stuck out too much. Got it caught getting through gates and some bushes. Both are great bags though.
UPDATE: Thank you to those who shared helpful additional insights! I wanted to pin them here so anyone watching can take note of some things I missed:
- Because Ortlieb's lower rail is removable, it can be reversed, allowing for more lower hook positions
- Vaude's panniers come with optional straps. But they aren't part of the securing mechanism like Ortlieb, so you need to take them out and clip them in when you would like to use them. I, personally, found it too much of a nuisance to dig them out and install, so never really used them. But that is an option if having straps is important to you!
One advantage for the ortliebs is you can install a metal cable into the top rail where you can loop it around the rack with a lock to keep someone from slipping the bag off the rack while your away from the bike.
Cool! I've never done that but that's good to know :)
The Vaude’s can be padlocked to the rack.
Great video.
I have a couple of old Karrimor bags, probably about 40 years old. I recently waxed them to make them a little more water proof but I will use dry bags inside for anything that must not get wet. Looking at some of the comments I think I'm going to stick with what I have. They are also really simple with nothing that I can't repair, not that they have every broken.
40 years - that’s amazing! Yeah if the setup’s working and lasted that long, I wouldn’t want to mess with it either 🙌
Great unbiased review and l liked the your explanation for your perceived faults with each brand
I currently use one Vaude (without the added 'pouch') for my laptop, office clothes and big chain lock on my cycling commute. I've had it for 5 years now and it is still doing great. But of course these are not really tough conditions. A colleague who used an Ortlieb had some damage to the backside of the bag, making me like the one piece back side of the Vaude more. But seeing this video, I must agree the fact that almost all parts can be replaced on the Ortlieb is a big advantage in the long run.
When the time comes, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for a great comparison!
Thanks for sharing your experience! Happy to hear the vaude has been doing so well for you 🙌
I use 4 ortlieb front classic rollers plus a rack pack 24 litre across the rear. Balance-equilibrium is everything. I've completed 8K km tours across the EU by road without luggage problems. Only drawback with front panniers I've noticed is the increased air resistance especially on mountain passes. They knock 20kph off downhill speed. Best wishes
Excellent video. I have a pair of Ortlieb "front roller" panniers which are smaller than yours. The biggest downside is that there is nothing besides the main compartment: no pockets. I guess it's called roller because you roll the top down, and it's nice for keeping water out. It's called front because it's intended for a front rack, and I've used them on front and back. The buckles on mine broke, so I notified Ortlieb directly. They said it was a defect of theirs, and they could have gotten away with not saying so. They sent me replacement buckles. I'm impressed.
That's great to hear! Thanks for sharing your experience :)
Thank you. Like you, we (my wife and I) have had significant problems with the Vaud lower hooks (why you would not buy further Vauds). My wife's lower hook came off and was temporarily lost; when found, I managed to reattach it. On another occasion, it broke. I had to order a replacement and this was extremely difficult (none at Amazon and many other suppliers); I managed to source them from France. But then I cannot find a way to install the new hook (physically it appears to be impossible without dismantling the back, which is not possible). So we will be replacing these with Ortlieb panniers. (Moreover, despite Google searches, I could not find instructions relating to the lower hook; there were instructions by Vaud on replacing the upper attachment).
I'm sorry to hear you've had trouble as well! One time when I reached out to them they sent me a link to a video about how to reinstall the hook, but I can't find it anymore so I don't know if they took it down. Basically, you put the silver oval into the rail, and then you use something flat like a flathead screwdriver to prop it up so you can screw the hook in. Actually, at 5:08 in this old video, you can see how we did it - th-cam.com/video/q0qKs-r48wA/w-d-xo.html Not very convenient and it did ultimately pop out again, but we were at least able to get it working for a bit. I hope that's helpful if you want to get yours working again!
I found that I didn't like the price, style or color of commercial panniers so I bought sailboat sail material from Sailrite & sewed them up on my trusty 1946 Kenmore sewing machine. I mounted them on Arkel hardware. Excellent material. Bombproof & the color & style to my liking. It was way cheaper & now I have what I wanted. A couple people have asked why I don't sell custom panniers. No way. Too much of a headache. Just wanted to let viewers know that you have that option if you can get a cheap old sewing machine. Sewing is easy to learn.
P.S. all the buckles, clips & straps can be found on the internet.
This is so cool!!!! What a neat idea. Thank you for sharing this!
Share a picture!
Great breakdown of the details explaining your choice. I agree a modular system to allow parts to be replaced when faulty or worn is the way to go.
Don't forget to mount on the rack some sort of abrasion protection otherwise your bags going to be punctured in time mine got almost punctured with minimal usage.
Thank u! Just bought my Orliebs today. Returned another bag by Bontrager. Going on a long journey…
Exciting! Wishing you a wonderful journey!
Vaude bags work for me well. I use the bags only on the front as i had the chance to use a dutch bike with front loading rack during a vacation. The positioning on the front made the whole thing very stable and for two weeks this Gazelle bike replaced our car for groceries. But never had the chance to use ortlieb bags
Nice! That sounds like a great grocery setup :)
I spread the weight up to the front of the bike too and now much better.
I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2016 and almost every bike that passed me had the Ortlieb panniers on the back with their instantly recognisable reflective patch. So many in fact that I initially thought the reflective patch must be a legal requirement. Before buying my panniers I did some research on them and the Ortlieb panniers had universal acclaim. I bought mine second hand (I've bought a blue matching set and a yellow matching set complete with handle bar bag) and they're bomb proof. The shoulder carrying strap is very useful if you've got to carry three bags upstairs into a hostel or albergue. I did buy a front pannier rack and bags (again second hand) but never used them. The reasoning being that if you've got that additional space, you'll fill it. Backpacking is definitely a case of "less is more". I recently did the South Downs Way, a hundred mile trip over hill and dale. The weight on my bike was too much even for that short ride and it was a major problem pushing a heavy bike up steep hills. Thanks for your video, they're all very entertaining and informative.
Thanks for sharing your experience! And for the kind words :)
I was in Berlin for a few days and lots of people travel by bicycle. Here too almost everyone has Ortlieb!
Ortlieb and Vaude are both german brands, but I would say 75% of the bags were Ortlieb, the rest 25% distributed between Vaude and other brands
Really like this program ❤
Ortlieb sells an oval rail, so if you want it to be more like the Vaude you can swap the stock rail out.
Also, I would recommend swapping out your top bungee cords for rack loading with a pair of Rok commuter straps. You'll understand why when you look at their design.
You can make your own commuter straps with old road tubes that bike shops throw away and buy the clips from a chandlers or online. Cheap effective and recycled.
Putting all the bike touring weight on the back, and having none at all in the front results in a dangerously unstable bike. Hair-pin descents, for example, demands that there be at least some percentage of the bike touring weight be on the front wheel. Otherwise, to be clear, one's front wheel can slip out from below so fast that you go down faster than gravity. Balance out your bike touring rig. Better to use four half-full bags, and that is far, far safer than packing everything on the back. I lived on a bicycle for over three years of my life over several different long tours. Safety first.
I agree with you 100%. I'm guessing that more than half of all fully loaded tourists have no front panniers, very sad.
I can't stand weight over the front at all have not experienced instability, probably not as experienced as yourself but have done many multi week tours , 3 weeks my longest heavy loaded and many speedy descents , perhaps because I've ridden a dedicated touring bike geometry Lynskey viale, totally stable
I balance the weight over the rear wheel with much more weight between the wheels…. my big butt 😂. Only kidding; you are quite correct, of course.
I tried both, I like the Ortlieb better except the closing strap. I don't use the carry strap or the side buckles at all, I only use the central closing strap and. And this strap opens and closes on the inside on the Ortlieb and outside on the Vaude. When I not only have our tent but I have a bag on the top of my rack sometimes it makes closing the strap closing on the inside hard or in cases impossible. Depending on the trip this might not be a problem when I only have a mat on the top of my rack but for other trips where we bring trad climbing gear, ropes, glacier gear, crampons, ice axes, climbing boots, helmets, shit ton of food, ect it does not fit in two paniers, a small backpack, frame and a handlebar bags and it requires me to put a big haulbag across my paniers which makes opening the Ortliebs roadside impossible so I use them for climbing gear, warm clothing and stuff that I don't need during the day. I tried Ortlieb and Vaude handlebar bags as well but can't decide yet. I stiched my own two frame bags from an old windsurf sail one is bigger and the other can be used with a bottle holder. As for the bag on top/across the paniers it differs by trip if it's just biking there is only our tent or a thermarest there if it's more remote or Im on food duty I put a 20l climbing backpack there which could be changed to a 40l or 60l haulbag if we are climbing as well. If we only need sport climbing gear that fits in a ponier with a 60m rope, if it's easy mountaineering and we only need a 30m glacier rope (interestingly glacier gear is smaller and lighter than sport climbing gear) for these the 40l is enough on top of the poniers but if it's more hard trad/alpine climbing or a high altitude (above 6000m) we bring a 60l edelrid haulbag. I wouldn't bring other then the frame bag, handlebar bag and a thermarest on the rack for like a divide kind of thing where you need to use fast and light techniques.
Ps. I found that the Vaudes lower rail is more repairable and also the fabric is more easily stiched and glued roadside then the Ortlieb but the Ortlieb needed less repair.
Ortlieb user but having said that I have punished and overloaded my Vaude panniers (Aqua back deluxe) on my daily commute and they're great value too given they're usually a lot cheaper. From a use and function point there's very little in it other than price. Just remember to periodically tighten all the hook adjusters. On both brands.
I bought Büshel Panniers, they are only a third of the price of Ortlieb. And they are basically the same design.
I ride a recumbent trike now rather than a bicycle.
Will use the vaude 24l panniers. For more room will swap one or both to 35l Ortilieb backroller XT plus panniers.
For more space,use the CycloneIV triailer and Ortlieb35l or vaude 24l depening on how much Space needed.
On a trike, adding weight to the rear improves grip ton rear wheel,weight does not effect handling, but the suspension stiffness needs changing which makes me prefer just using the trailer.
I have products from both brands but heard some tourists on a German channel pronounce Vaude (Fawdt) or (Fawde).. not sure which is correct, but then again everyone pronounces Panniers differently. One other thing about the Ortlieb rail, I think you can install the oval rail from the Sport rollers on the back and/or you can flip the one you have upside down (if needed)
"VauDe" stands in german onomatopoeic for the initial letters of the owners family "von Dewitz"
Vaude is pronounced using two syllables. Germans think it's French so they say vhoad like toad with a V.
But actually it Fow like in vow. Fow- day. It's a German company.
Thanks so much for the video! I’ve always admired Ortlieb pannier bags, even though I haven’t had the chance to own one myself. Right now, I’m using some budget-friendly Rhino Walks from Amazon. They've served me well and seem surprisingly durable, holding up against a lot of wear and tear, plus they’ve braved plenty of rain, considering I ride my bike every day, even through Boston’s harsh winters.
My only issue with them is their size-they have a maximum capacity of 27 liters, which isn't quite enough for my needs. I’m curious about the Ortlieb 40-liter bags. Could you let me know their dimensions in both their folded state and when they are fully expanded? Specifically, I’m interested in how big they are when the bag is folded down to its smallest carry level and when it is opened up to accommodate larger items.
I bought some Ortlieb panniers in Europe to rekit myself after everything was stolen back in Hamburg in 2013. They replaced my MEC's new World Tour edition which was no loss. I loved the originals and used them for years but there comes a time when they are falling apart, so I bought another set but I wasn't to happy with MEC's redesign of the Serratus pannier. I really didn't like the Ortliebs either. One of the things I didn't like about them was they clips (I had a couple of issues on the last part of that tour) and having to get something out of them in the pouring rain. I gave them to my step son who was living in the UK. I like the idea of waterproof panniers. When I got back I started hunting around and one that caught my attention was Arkel. A Canadian company and I have seen their panniers all over the world on touring bikes and I ended up getting the 48L Dolphins. Nobody that I have encountered make better rack clips then Arkel. Ortlieb's Clip system is much improved from when I bought mine. Are they still plastic? One can buy Arkel clip system separately if you considered upgrading them. I really like the Dolphin outside water sealed pocket for putting stuff that you might need on the road which makes Vaude more attractive to me. I like the Dophin's four water bottle pockets on the outside of my Dolphins because I ran out of water once crossing when I was crossing the Anarchist Pass in 40+C (and I still suffer from a little PTSD from that experience). Are they perfect? NO! but not too bad. Firstly those water bottle pockets are not as tough as I would like them to be but it means that you don't have to put water type liquids inside your panniers. When one has those 48L panniers stuffed to the gills they make ones ride kind of wide and, hey, I ride a trike. Getting through some trail gates can be a pain. I was a back packer for years so putting everything into bags in my panniers comes naturally and the need for water proof panniers doesn't strike me as critical. I am contemplating switching over to a trailer (I bought a third hand Radical Design Cyclone trailer with extras) which would allow me dump my racks and panniers and duffel, which acts as my luggage when I fly. The trailer acting like a duffel becomes my flying luggage plus my trike in padded trike bag when flying. The trailer came with a carrying strap and the wheels can be put towards the end of the trailer, turning it into rolling luggage. I have not tried touring with it yet? I haven't thought of those Ortlieb panniers in years but they sure irritated me when I had them. 🤣 just me on a rant 🤣
Hey Sheelagh, Great video, great timing. I was doubting which one to buy and ultimately bought the Vaude aqua back (non plus). But I am gonna return them and get the Ortlieb classic back roller. The straps, replacable parts and the tearing prolbem at the welts, which I read in forums and other reviews, have made me regret my purchase. Thanks for helping me make the decision :).
Wishing you many wonderful adventures!!
@@SheelaghDaly Thank you, you too!
11:41 can I get replacement ortlieb bags and transfer all the bits?
Have you ever heard about the Crosso panniers and if so, what are your thoughts on them?
Aloha Sheelagh🤙🏼 Nice video.
Thanks so much!
Had a Vaude pannier. Broke after 2+ years. No warranty, no repair option cheaper than buying new ones. Now with Ortlieb for 2+ years, still as good as new.
I have a pair of Ortlieb Back-Roller Plus (besides matching Front-Roller Rack-Pack + Ultimate2) for 26 Years and I use + abbuse them nearly every day for everything all year for commuting most of my grocery runs carry all kind of things overload them regulary and of course for touring, I'm 57 bicycle is my major means of transportation never owned a car. After that time only the reflective prints wear partly off, I got one little puncture in one bag which was easy to fix with some SeamGrip and two buckles broke but you can still buy the pre '98 spare buckles from Ortlieb and a local shoemaker replaced it for me. It's a testament of their built quality and design they last the cordura fabric don't show any relative sign of abrasion or disintegration but tend to look always little dirty, I guess it does not get more utilitarian.
That's great to hear!
If you paid for the Vaude bags with a card, the transaction on the statement should be sufficient for a proof of purchase. It is in Australia anyway. Thanks for the video, I have just purchased the
Ortlieb Rack Three and I am yet to decide on the bags, I will probably go with the sport city bags. The rack itself will carry up to 30kg and the bags 9kg each. I use my bike for fitness so I will be filling the bags with a 9kg sandbag in each for a leg workout. I think the Ortlieb system should be up to the task.
I have had my Ortlieb bags (rear, front, handle bar bag and rear rack duffle) for way over a decade...I like the adjustable sizing for the pannier attachment....so they have fit perfectly on many different bikes over the years. I currently have them on my Trek 520...going to do the GAP / C&O in May 2024.
wow, you have had the exactly same experience. The bottom part of my Vaude also dropped out on one of my first rides but I was able to re-attach it. I like the flexibiliy/positioning better than witht he Ortlieb. In all other aspects, Ortlieb is better. Ortlieb also fixed the issue with the top clip that can fall in between the rails and the rail-clips when attaching it to the bike but open.
Thanks for this interesting video!
BUT I must say that I made the exact opposite experience with the bags! I have the VauDe Bags (back and front) for many years now and almost never had an issue. With the Ortlieb I had a hole in it after the first summer tour to the lake; all the attachment mechanism at the Ortlieb are made of plastic and easily relocate because you can't really tighten them (e.g. with an Allen key like the VauDe hooks). Also I made the experience, that when you let go of the handle of the Ortlieb back a little too early, the bag falls off the rack because the hooks don't catch the bar.
The more volume does not need to be filled 100% but is very handy e.g. when you need to store food on the way.
When was it that you had VauDe bags? The warranty for the Aqua Back Plus is 5 years according to VauDe website.
The difficulty of warranty issues might have something to do with you living in Canada and VauDe is a local German company. The Aqua Back Plus are manufactured and repaired in Tettnang, Germany, and maybe they wanted to make sure that you have an originally purchased bag (and not for example a second-hand one) before they order air cargo over the Atlantic....
Maybe it is easier now, I never had a warranty issue with VauDe bags.
So far my experience! I really like your videos, wish you always safe journeys!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! A big part of why I wanted to make this video is for comments like yours. I knew everyone would have such different experiences! I’m sure your message will be helpful to read for others who are deciding between panniers :) I’m in Canada but vaude has a distributor here that handles warranties. I think the warranty process would have been simple if I had a proof of purchase. I’m happy to hear you haven’t had a warranty issue with your vaudes!
All in all I think both have a good quality... I have a big pack sack from Ortlieb also, which I use on the way whenever I have a wet tent to store and at home just for storing other bags, it is very durable and can be rolled up completely when not in use... and I must admit that VauDe might have a bit of a quality issue concerning their seams... sometimes when you roll it to tight or pack the bags to stuffed they might get ripped open... I think it is because the material is very stiff... I had this once with an older bag (10 YO approx.) and it might be due to the age and or to the expossure to salt in the winter ??
I hope it is better now...
❤ Thanks for sharing your experience ❤
@@SheelaghDalyby the way, the brand in Germany is pronounced VD (like the two letters read from the alphabet, nothig to do with Vaudeville or sth 😂) because the founder's and nowadays his grandchild's name is Von Dewitz...VauDe is phonetic in German for the two letters...
@@katjasendmayr1342 Thank you for this explanation!!
@@SheelaghDaly great video, as for your proof of purchase, you don’t need a receipt you just need a bank/credit card statement. Companies never tell you this but that is all you need.
I’ve got Ortlieb that I’ve had for at least 10 yrs and whilst a bit dirty and I’ve lost the shoulder strap they show no signs of wear. I’d like to get some carradice super C because I like the look more and they have some pockets, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with my ortliebs. Maybe in another decade they’ll need replacing.
Ortlieb panniers (Roller style) are the classic waterproof bag. Just an open cavity. Many will use organizer bags within the pannier. The weak link on Ortlieb is the nylon clamp system that attaches to the top of a rack. The bottom part of the attachment's design isn't designed to support weight, just to keep it stable. Think it through . . . There is a negative consequence of putting all the weight on the TOP of the rack. Some other pannier designs have found ways to shift at least some of the pannier's weight onto the lower section of the rack and therefore, the weight rides lower, and that's more stable.
You never mentioned price.
On the ortlieb rail, it can also be flipped so you do kind of get that oval.
That is a great point!! Thank you for mentioning that 🙏
Having used both, i have to say that my Arkels stand head and shoulders above either. That said, all three are top quality.
I haven't tried the Arkels but I've heard great things! I'm hoping these will last me a while, but if it comes time for a new set, Arkels will certainly be up for consideration!
Are the Arkels waterproof?
I've had Vaude (you do not pronounce it like you do) bags for about 10 years. Never -ever- had that thing pop out. And I change the settings on that a fair amount, most people wouldn't since you'll use it on one bike.
I have no idea how you did that.
I use mine for a daily commute.
I had these vaude bags and used them for my commute 2013-2020. Loved the bags, no issues whatsoever, they just got moldy and gross over a year of bad storage and no use.
I’ve now used the ortlieb backroller for a few years, and liked it. However I have missed the extra pocket and space of the vaude. The ortlieb bag has now lost a couple of the screws on the back, apparently a known issue.
Today I got my hands on a set of the Vaude panniers again, at a very good price. This review did give me some concern though. I didn’t have any issues with the bottom plastic thingy on my last set, so I’ll probably just put some gaffa tape on it for good measure, and hope for the best.
You can turn the rail of the ortlieb a 180 degrees if necessary
I can’t resist adding my thoughts to the pronunciation debate. Sheelagh is Canadian. I am also Canadian. We pronounce it pan yah (or perhaps pan ya eh 😂 as true Canadians). I don’t need to look anything up. That’s how we pronounce it here. It’s part of our dialect. Pannier is indeed a French word. Canada’s English is full of French words because of our history and because English and French are the dominant languages of Canada. Peace to all 🙏
Haha thanks for the comment fellow Canadian! Yes indeed, growing up bilingual “pan-yay” is how it always read to me and how everyone I know pronounces it. From what I’ve read the etymology is also from old French, but regardless, it’s just how I’m comfortable pronouncing it!
I digitalize all my receipts for warranty purpose. I name the file what the item is and year. Great information
That is super smart!
I use to use the Ortlieb backrollers 40l panniers
I am now using the Arkel Orca Front and Rear panniers now
You still riding? I miss watching your videos.
Vaude panniers are completely ill-considered crap, uncomfortable fasteners, additional bags on the sides instead of at the back, which first of all catch the wind while riding, making it even more difficult during steep climbs where you have to get down and push the bike, they catch on your calves, and a rather complicated locking system . If you have really good, well-thought-out panniers, then only from Crosso (I prefer Crosso expert 66)💪🏼👌🏻🤙🏼
I had Ortlieb and loved them. Then someone decided to cut into them. I patched with tape, but just never was the same.
Aww man, I’m so sorry. That’s terrible someone did that!
I was on a multi-month tour, and I consistently saw Vaude breaking on people. Like every other week I'd meet a tourer with something broken, snapped, worn, torn, etc... I even saw a girl who strapped BOTH vaudes around her like dual satchels while climbing a hill. Ouch. The Ortliebs are pricey, but with care, they will last a life time.
for me it comes down to weight vs waterproof. fully waterproof panniers tend to weigh a lot more. i use cheaper less waterproof panniers from a company called decathlon. with dry bags inside. this weighs less.
My Back-Roller Plus weight each around 700g. It's light IMO they are durable at least for the 26 years in use always trouble free and waterproof.
mehr Schein als sein ...! Liest mal die Bewertungen, so der verschiedenen offenen Plattformen. Die Qualität hat massiv nachgelassen. Greenwashing, dafür ist VD bekannt. Meine VD Fahrradtaschen hatten sich nach einiger Zeit aufgelöst, der Kleber der Nähte hielt nicht, die Taschen bekommen einen weißlichen Film. Der Fachhändler hatte viele solche Reklamationen im Lager zu stehen. Die Rückenplatte, die Vernietungen sind gebrochen. Nutze nur noch Ortlieb, da kann Mensch die Bestandteile auch einzeln bestellen und tauschen bei Bedarf. Thema Zelt, verschweißte Nähte, dass Band löste sich, ja kann alles passieren, aber nicht wenn das Zeug neu ist und man ewig mit dem Kundenservice diskutieren muss. Der Kundenservice ist eine Katastrophe. Das Zelt war undicht und schlecht verarbeitet. Nein kein Kondenswasser. Nach 4 Monaten, ja nach 4 Monaten hatten wir das Zelt dann von Vaude zurück erhalten... es wurde ein neues gesendet. Warum hat das 4 Monate gedauert???? Kleidung und Ausrüstung kommt doch alles aus Fernost Vietnam China ... , dementsprechend ist auch die Verarbeitung und Qualität. Wir meiden komplett Vaude!!! Gibt viel bessere Hersteller!!!
I personally use Arkels but a friend of mine uses old motorcycle panniers made out of leather!!😂
Love it! 😂 Whatever gets the job done 🙌
Start your ride
It's "Vow-de" (or more accurately, "fow-de"), not "Vode". And also, "Pan-yer" or "Pan-ee-er" (the entomology of this is interesting if you're curious, but suffice to say the french pronunciation is wrong)
Vaude bag design and quality suck, and their customer service sucks.
I don't know what Ortlieb is like, but it couldn't possibly be worse.
Good video with an objective comparison. Sometimes it just comes down to money. Purchased the Vaude Aqua back w/o the side pocket, for half the cost of the Ortiebs - easy decision. Used them on 4 trips so far and they are still in great shape. Have also had the lower rack attachment piece come loose and fall out - easy to put back in - I feel it was user error on my part for unscrewing it too far - haven't had that problem since.
Reviews i've read praise both brands - but the price is the price.
Thank you! I have Ortlieb bags!
I enjoyed your video 😊👍.
First I prefer VauDe , but after the weldet seams were suddenly open without reason I changed to Ortlieb. The durability is much better, but the position of the brackets are sometimes unfortunally
One of the other issues with the top clipping into the sides like the Vaude does--it limits packing in the main compartment. With the Ortlieb, you can technically 'overpack' the bags a bit since the clips don't have a fixed thing to clip into--if that makes sense.
I own a pair of Vaude Aqua Back (without additional pocket) and it does have a pair of shoulder straps, that you can use same as with Ortlieb, included. I just checked the website and it states that Aqua Back Plus are supplied with shoulder straps as well. So that for sure was a wrong comparison
Ahh yes, good point! I have pinned a comment with this detail as well as another about the Ortlieb that I missed. I completely forgot about the optional straps as I found them a bit of a nuisance to use, especially at the end of a long riding day. But it is an option worth mentioning.
I can only talk about Ortlieb: You have a newer model. In my family we have had maybe eight of these. All of them got destroyed within two to six years. All the screws on the backside failed. Before that we had maybe ten of an older model (with five screws on the top of the back instead of three). This model is much more resilient, after more than 20 years of almost daily use and misuse some still hang around, others got stolen and only a couple got destroyed. I recently bought some of the older second hand. If some day I can’t find old ones, I would bring some screws, washers and nuts for trips. Or I will use my bikepacking setup and just use the panniers for commuting and shopping.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the different Ortlieb models - super helpful to hear! It's unfortunate that the screws have failed so much, though I am happy to know they have replacements so that hopefully doesn't mean the end of the bag? Did anything else about the newer models fail or was it solely the screws?
@@SheelaghDaly the old buckles are also more durable.
You can put thread locker on the screws
Not to be the language police, but pannier, although originally a French word, is pronounced pan-yr in English, you can look it up. The gear company Vaude, is a German company, and is pronounced vaad in English. Again, you can look it up. People can pronounce things any way they want, but it just sounds stilted. It is like being a native English speaker talking to a fellow American, for example, and insisting on pronouncing Paris, pah-ree (with a slightly rolled r, like a French speaker).
No one cares bro
@@RodrigoCisternasAlbornoz Apparently you do. :)
Eric sorry but you are defiantly a member of the language police but l would like to thank you for your correct pronunciations l can now go shopping for some pan-yr bags and sound smarter than l really am
I have used both of these as well. I like the simplicity of the ortlieb. The front pouch on Vaude is handy, though I found it stuck out too much. Got it caught getting through gates and some bushes. Both are great bags though.
Both great bags for sure!