Thanks for watching :) if you enjoyed send it to you friends and lmk which version of Order 66 you like better! If this video does well I'll start working on another fun long one. Do you guys want jawas, zillo beast, or more clones?
Zillo, Jaws or more clones all sound like great long videos, I'd watch any of those. Along with the changes made to order 66 it's also interesting just how much the concept of the Cline Wars changed in the old canon between Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith
Disney bought all of Star Wars in 2006. George Lucas had no connection to Star Wars at all by 2008 when the purchase was fully completed and Disney ended up having to kick George Lucas off the property of Disney when George Lucas went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney Film industries pissed off claiming he was not paid for the purchase of Star Wars. George Lucas bought a bunch of crap and that stuff broke because he crashed them or he did stupid shit with them. Disney paid George Lucas $8.7 billion and George Lucas lost 100% of the money in less than 2 years. Yes that is correct. Also George Lucas has lost everything he owned and is living in the spare bedroom of his niece who is the only family member who is willing to take care of him because he has pissed off every other family member he has. He is blatantly an elderly bum living off his niece who literally takes care of him. George Lucas did in fact lose about $50 million which he for some unknown stupid reason put $50 million on pre paid gift cards and he lost them because he ripped his cloths off somewhere and wen streaking down San Francisco butt ass naked screaming about Disney sent the white rabbit mafia with their taco mounts are trying to take over the world. George Lucas was fucked up on some kind of drug and his $50 million he put on gift cards which turned out he stappled to his closes were never found. He literally bought a stapler and stapled the cards to his cloths at the Target he bought the gift cards. The Target employees just thought hell he just got money and was doing stupid shit with it for fun but turns out that was the last money out of his $8.7 billon. He spent every dime in less than a couple of months then got taken back to his home after he was a complete lunatic. Then creditors started calling and he didn't have any money left and he kind of accidentally burn the mansions he bought to the ground along with crashing his super yachts and he crashed all the cars and even some how destroyed his new helicopter by hitting the helicopter with one of his new cars. His main mansion got repossessed because he owed way too much in taxes and stuff. George Lucas then went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney film studios claiming Disney never paid him and just stole Star Wars from him and Disney ha enough and they banned him for life and had him escorted off the property in cuffs. His niece bailed him out and took him home with her and George Lucas has not stopped his blatant lying about Disney because he is a crazy old man who literally is pissed off because he went broke because of his own stupidity and yet can't except responsibility. Mark Hammel has also been banned for life because Mark Hammel has pulled similar shit after getting drunk off his ass and then picking fights in which he went into the Marvel filming studio and tried telling Robert Downy Jr how to act and punching Robert before Robert knocked out several teeth of Mark and Mark got escorted out in cuffs as well. Mark gets really stupid when he drinks which he is always drunk. Its actually why the last movie didn't even have Mark Hammel in it at all it was CGI and half way threw the second to last movie Mark became CGI as well an no one really notices.
Well you musn't forget what the Kaminoans said in episode 2. Where Obi-Wan is shown around. "They are totally obedient, taking any order without question. We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host." There was the entire explanation right from the beginning.
He is just trying to sell his "pen". The Kaminoans are untrustworthy from the start. We all know it was a play from Sidious from the start so why trust what the Kaminoans said? Sure this was the original explanation. But Clone Wars contradicted it with the first season already and honestly it makes sense that the kaminoans oversold their "product". After we learn the clones are indeed able to have their own views and see themselves as individuals it needed a new explanation. Ofc this wasn't the original idea but it worked out great in my opinion. The whole plot with Fives, Rex resisting order 66. All of that is peak Star Wars.
@@thefrozenfire659 don't try to explain plot holes created by the CW show that didn't exist in the first place. The clones were always meant to be the child slave army of the republic with no free will. Only Arc troopers and Commandos had said free will because of their operations. If you read any comic, you easily see that the clones were never meant to even have character. The ones we know by name are the only ones with free will, the rest were meant to just be a obedient army that followed orders to the T.
@@blade8741I don’t care about those comics. There is just too many to count and the movies, shows and games clearly don’t take from them much, considering how much of a clusterf*ck the EU is. My question is why did George Lucas write that idea in Attack of the Clones with the clones being totally blindly obedient when he was going to clearly be doing something different later on? His mind always runs in circles.
33:07 I actually like the idea of the 150 orders, and I think it still fits into canon. If palpatine ordered any one of the 150 orders the clones would mindlessly obey them like they did with 66
I would dare say that 66 is the only one the inhibitor chip worked on as that was the plan all along. While the others were "optional" meaning the clones could disobey, but likely wouldn't. Even the way the story is presented in battlefront 2 still fits to a degree as Rex isn't in the game, meaning it could be following a detachment of the 501st that were taking direct orders from palpatine the entire time, instead of Anakin or Rex.
@GavinStewart-ci6yx the addition of the inhibitor chip goes against the genetic modification of the clones for less independence and total obedience since birth (established in the films), and only serves the purpose to explain the clones executing Order 66 in light of their controversial portrayal in TCW as the "good" guys, which they never were to begin with. They've always been an army created to destroy the Jedi as part of the Sith conspiracy. They were fully aware of Order 66 before it happened and it was their conscious choice to obey it, and not due to the brainwashing of some chip in their heads.
Must have been awkward to call one who just had his Jedi general die. 'Commander Jimbo, the time has come. Execute Order 66.' 'Yes Lord Sidious, but General Shitto just got ventilated by a squad of Droidekas.' 'Oh. Well um, good job anyways Commander'.
Yeah I'd be guessing he called the important ones generals personally like Obi Wan's, Yoda's and some of the other council members' and then just posted the command in the clone group chat
The Plo Koon scene is probably one of the best things to show when you talk about why the chips were needed. No matter how disciplined your troops are, you could never convince them to turn on someone who truly fought, bled and cared for you.
@@SkywalkerFoe yep yep history show but really these clone spent decade being doctrine and brainwash to follow order and the republic, them only spending example like plo koon for like 4 year is not enough to betray the republic.
You give people far too much credit. Not to go all rule 34, but in Germany, people literally ratted their neighbors out for no other reason than because the party told them that they were the problem, in complete contravention to reality and their personal experience. Now, take soldiers who are mentally conditioned to follow orders, had even less inhibitions against rounding up and interning the ' undesirables '. This is why it is very believable that humans raised from birth to follow orders would, against all evidence of their own experiences, would gun down the Jedi.
16:00 I Will say the Battle Front 2 game (amazing game btw) is more of a reflection, so its a stormtrooper looking back on his journal, thus why each mission begins as journal #. So that may clean up some of the confusion about clones "Knowing" about Order 66.
It’s probably also worth noting that even back then, most SW games were of dubious canon relative to the films. So you can partially put a lot of the clone in the journals view points down to a creative interpretation of how they might see events. Rather than it aligning perfectly with the films or other expanded SW media.
It's most likely a memoir, too many entries talk as if it was some distant event that he is now reflecting on. See text such as "what I remember about the rise of the empire" for an example.
Order 65 is actually worse than Order 66. I may be mistaken, but I think O65 is when the clones would take hostages civilians and start murdering them until the Jedi would surrender themselves to be executed by the clones to stop the civilians bloodshed
Im just going to say it. Palpatine calling every clone commander individually is pretty dumb. It would take him 10,000 calls and days to get it done. Edit: Ok, so before anymore torches and pitchforks come at me. I did assume that Palps can do a mass holo call from the movies. I was referring to the Junior Novel described 5:39 - 6:07.
Pretty sure the only commander he addresses by name in the movie is Cody. Probably did him first specifically to get rid of Obi Wan. Gotta be dramatic for the first transmission leading into the new galactic order. Seemed the rest of the commanders got the same generic message.
It's implied in the movie that it had to take place at the exact same time for it to work. We see that it came later for Yoda, and he already knew what was coming because he sensed Jedi all across the galaxy dying.
@@battlesheep2552It was even explained in The Bad Batch that if the clones didn’t receive the initial transmission from Palpatine, they would be sent a text message telling them to execute Order 66.
The biggest reason why the chips had to be introduced is that Filoni made the clones too loyal. We needed more generals like Krell. We needed clones to resent Jedi for being so gung-ho, or being poor generals. It would have made it more complex, to have the clones constantly mulling over what they must do, and have dissent grow
I dont think they just made the clones to loyal. They straight up made them to nice. They follow morals that are objectively good, unlike their Legends portrayal, even though they are breed as soldiers, not as peace keepers. The only time a clone from the TV Show did something that comes closer to their Legends portrayal, is in the Umbara-Arc, there one clone executes an Umbaran without remorse. When I watched the episode as a kid, I thought the show was setting up the clones darker side
Yeah, I call bullshit. Even in Legends, the Jedi were explained to be respected by the clones. For example: Aayla Secura. Even the 501st logs said she was respected among her own clones. So no, I honestly don’t believe a sane human, or clone would follow through with this order.
@BarneyisJehova Well, Ki-Adi-Mundi was one of those Jedi which was resented by the Galactic Marines. In legends they really took satisfaction in killing him because of how poor a general he was. I think we needed to see more of that, or at least get some sense of reasoning, because that makes better drama. It almost feels too impersonal when it's just a mind control chip, rather than following through on real character driven feelings
@@quartztemplar3676 Sure, Ki was kind of a terrible General. But that’s the exception, not the norm. And we have to remember, Palpatine is insanely corrupt. If we make the Clones able to think, then I highly doubt they’d side with Sidious, especially when considering the Clones have to know that Sidious is leading the CIS. So why would they side with the guy who’s sending them to a proxy war?
Fun fact there was another one that got scrapped of a jedi surviving the purge only because he didnt use clones and instead used his own militia which would later be the design for the rebel alliance
More like everyone else was so stupid that they couldnt figure out the hooded guy was the sith lord and trusted the strange hooded man even as they were killed.
Personally I think a mixture of both should have applied. The thing is, would Palpatine really have left the clones, the weapon he would use to wipe out the Jedi, to make the final decision on their own? Yeah they're genetically bred to be more obedient, but I don't think Palpatine would be the type of person to have his all encompassing plan to leave a gap, however small, to have a failure if the clones just mostly refuse the order, especially for units like the 501st and Wolfpack, both of whom adore their Jedi commanders. The whole mind control thing however is a bit lazy, but it opens up a whole new angle to the clones that I feel almost everybody talking about Order 66 misses: the chips reframe the clones because they are now also victims in the whole ordeal. They never wanted to kill their masters but were forced to. I think that makes Order 66 hit harder and is the primary reason why the canon Order 66 is also accepted heavily. There's also the fact that the alternative raises tons of questions, such as to why Cody, after being such close friends would so unflinchingly blast Obi Wan off the cliff. Personally I think the whole chips vs orders debate really boils down to what you want Order 66 and the clones to be. If you want it to be even more horrifying, with the clones as essentially living droids or super soldiers, the Orders explanation will appeal to you. But if you want Order 66 to be instead the galaxy's greatest tragedy, and the clones to be happy puppets on a string, unaware that the puppetmasters want them to dance, the chips are probably your headcanon.
@@arandomcommenter0135 Except the chips introduce a technology that (like most of Filoni’s slop) completely derails the OT and makes the events of the films impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternethow exactly? The chips could only really work when used with the clones. As I’m certain more people would’ve noticed the government throwing thousands upon thousands of people into brain surgery. Not even the greatest tactical mind can cover that up forever
I always thought (but could easily be wrong) that originally the clones didn't know they were soon *going* to turn on the jedi, but rather there were a hundred or so "orders" for every possible scenario, of which this was just the 66th one.
@@Icemario87 cant speak for him but i know the Republic Commando Book series dabled a bit with this idea. basically saying that A) the Jedi simply didnt "care" enough to look at the emergency Order list of 150 Orders, from arresting the Chancelor to a full Base Delta Zero on key strategic worlds if they side with the Seperatist. and B) the Clones, as a whole, not being fully on board with the Jedi. as well as one very vital "viewpoint" imo.,paraphrased. "we(then soldiers on the ground) didnt question the orders because we do NOT have the full picture, The ONE order we choose to ignore, may have been the order that was meant to keep us alive". And when force sensitive beings are involved(which, funfac,t Jedis arent the only "group" or species of dangerous individuals for which an Order existed) there is also the whole mess of the Centax II Clones which where the bulk of the 501st on Coruscant as well as reinforcing the wider GAR, who didnt have ANY loyalty to the jedi as they where born like.. yesterday
That's basically how it was described in the clone wars novels and in the episode 3 book. The Clones were modified to obey orders. Just because they can think more creatively of how to accomplish those orders in any given combat situation is not the same thing as choosing to not obey a direct order given directly too you from the all high commander that you've trained or really just brainwashed since birth to be loyal to. The Republic of which the Chancellor is the elected leader of is where there loyalties where actually supposed to be. The Jedi are not directly under Republic rule and there's all this grey area between them and the rest of the Republic as to how things work and who answers to whom. It's sort of like how the Vatican isn't technically part of Rome or the way that the District of Columbia is different from the rest of the U.S. But Order 66 meant that the Jedi had betrayed the Republic and therefore needed to be killed. To most genetically modified/indoctrinated clones, even ones that had spent plenty of time with their Jedi Generals, didn't question these orders and there really wasn't any need for the brain chip. Sidious wasn't really suppose to be leaving that much to chance as some people argue because it was like a codeword to activate a sleeper agent. See The Manchurian Candidate. It was just another unneeded change(Like changing Korriban to Moraband. I mean wtf? Why? Jango Fett not being the last true Mandalorian or even a Mandalorian at all. The Dark Saber instead of the Madalor's Helmet which also seems to be where the idea of non Force sensitive individuals being able to wheeled lightsabers.) on top of a lot of other things that aren't really that great about the Clone Wars series when you step back and look at the show more objectively. I honestly started slowly loosing more interest in Star Wars since The Clone Wars started airing because of these kinds of things. I could go on a bit more, but I also came to realize that I just didn't really have the energy anymore to explain it to everyone who was sooooo in love with the show they want to call it PEAK SW. And ultimately it just didn't matter.
I'm torn between the two variations of 66. BF2. On one hand, through the 501st journals, you hear that the clone looks back on the events leading up to Order 66 and his inner dialogue from those evens (even tho he shouldn't have been to every planet in that campaign). You hear in some cases, he saw the jedi as arrogant since they didn't wear armor and stuff, and when talking about Secura, he sounded somewhat remorseful for following through with the order. On the other hand, the CW show gave us clones with so much humanity, that they needed a way that would *force* them to follow through the order without them looking like they did a 180° to follow order 66.
I mean, don't forget that in BF2, the journal was being written in hindsight. There are stories in canon of clones who executed Order 66, didn't know about the chips, and are trying to justify their actions. BF2 can easily be viewed through those lens.
Clones are clones for a reason, not some army of poor children. They were raised with loyalty to Republic in mind, and with only war as their craft. When Empire was established, there were Private Military companies of clones who were basically mercenaries, because clones had no other traits. They are genetically less rebellious and more obedient, essentially just a droids that cant be repaired
Clones being brainwashed from the beginning fits the pottery of the arc of the movies more. "Technological robots vs biological robots fight a pointless war for misled people in order to usurp both" parties
I don't see why it's a contradiction to have clones with personality and feelings but still have them be totally loyal soldiers. Like, they were specifically created to be perfect soldiers and their allegiance was with the republic and not the jedis. I always liked that as commentary on real life war, as soldiers are still normal (often good) people but they still in general follow any orders given - even stuff like dropping bombs on civillian areas or turning against their former allies - all in the name of their country.
An important detail about the RC books is that the main characters, both ARCs and Commandos, were trained by mandalorian instructors who didn’t like the Jedi in the first place. Most ARCs and Commandos were encouraged to pursue their individuality while still being part of a unit. It makes sense why they’d have mixed reactions to Order 66 while most generic clones followed the order without question.
I always felt like Legends version was way more heartbreaking and cold compared to canon version because it just showed how brainwashed and disciplined as well as loyal to the “Republic” the clones really were
@@misteranthropy7082I think it depends on how you see it. Personally I think its way more tragic to be betrayed by a friend, instead of a friend that was mind controlled. The latter didnt really betray you and he might not even be aware of his actions. What I like about legends, is that some of the clones have to deal with the choice they made. They werent mind controlled. Brainwashed, yes but they did have somewhat of a choice to disobey what they have been thaught. And a few clones did disobey. I think thats way more compelling.
@@misteranthropy7082 statistically less clones were friends with Jedi, they were switching generals a lot, and not much of them did well as general either, resulting in big losses
@@mareklonestar7053 - Perhaps, from a certain point of view. Personally, I find it far more compelling to address the humanity of the clones in contrast to how the Kaminoans, and much of the Republic, treat them. The chip is not only perfectly plausible for an operation as advanced as Kamino’s, but demonstrates their utter lack of impunity toward the living beings they breed and sell. The Clone Wars and The Bad Batch, the former of which can be counted as part of Legends to a certain degree, pose questions of clones’ rights and citizenship postwar, as well as their quality of life given their rapid growth and shortened lifespan. These are important questions worthy of consideration within the Star Wars universe and its fan base. The best part is that not all clones have to concern themselves with these questions. I have no problem imagining Alpha and Fives existing in the same plot line, with the former totally at peace with his purpose as a soldier and the latter going rogue to prove that he and his brothers are more than hardware. They are not mutually exclusive.
In my head I personally combine the two metas. I like to think the 151 orders did exist and were public knowledge, but the chips were insurance specifically for order 66. I do think the chips allow each clone to be more humanized and individual.
Same. I saw it as a failsafe for the Clones. In the event a Clone was not willing to go through with any of the 150 Contingency Orders, the chip would activate and force the Clones to go through with them.
Although not completely flushed out in the movies, George did want the clones and Jedi to form bonds. It’s clear through obi-wan scenes with one of the only named clones who was given dialogue at the time Commander Cody. And with scenes like the opening space battle where Anakin wanted to break off in order to help his clone wingmen once he saw they were getting shot down by droid interceptors. The movie hinted at it but never flushed it out. In The Clone Wars, George (not Dave btw, it was George’s story) was finally able to expand on the clones and Jedi’s bond they formed together during the war. So then the chips were a way to solidify Sidius’ control over his grand plan, since now that George was focusing on elaborating the relationship between Jedi and clones, it wouldn’t make sense that every single clone would respond to order 66 now that each and every clone has a unique relationship with their Jedi generals, some stronger than others. There needed to be a full proof way for Sidius’ plan to go off without any chance of failure. The inhibitor chips is that failsafe. And it just makes more sense this way. Why would Sidius put his complete trust in clones of a bounty hunter even if they were genetically uttered to be more loyal as an army and as soldiers. They may be clones but they were still people with free thoughts and a free will. The chips are much more of a guarantee that no matter what may take place the clones will execute order 66 no matter what, and put an end to the jedi
I do not get people who think George had little to no influence in TCW. But this was also the thought process I held onto as well, that the Canon version of Order 66 makes way more sense from Palpatine's view. In Legends, many clones did not go through with the order, but in Canon it's only around 4 active soldiers who did not initially carry it out. Also, with the chips there is no way that the Jedi can sense any deception in the Clones, but to be fair, the Jedi were a bit arrogant at this time so I don't think it would have mattered anyways.
@Bubby021 Yea ikr, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But i watched a vid from @Hero_of_Sinnoh who did a good video about that topic called "the most misunderstood fact behind Starwars:The clone wars". He really did it justice. And yes exactly i agree completely
@Bubby021 Yea, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But I recently watched a video from Hero of Sinnoh called "the most misunderstood fact about starwars the clone wars" and he really did the topic justice. And yes Exactly i completely agree
@@Bubby021He had influence... Just not more than Filoni who constantly went behind George's back and made massive changes. Also while true the chips make sense from Palpatine's perspective, it makes for a less satisfying story overall, especially when the programming from the EU worked well enough while providing a fun amount of drama
In that case, why would Sideous use Clones at all? Why not use droids or even start using his new chips with prisoners to turn them into a slave army? He could even openly advertise the inhibiter chips as something to reform hardened criminals line the Terran Confederacy in Starcraft 1. And it also ruins the OT as such a chip would certainly be even more handy on imperial citizens, never mind in the military. So most of the people who defect wouldn't and we would have a repeat of the Clone Wars, only with the Separatists without the massive droid armies and more reliant on people to fight.
As a kid, I got the junior novel of Revenge Of The Sith from a garage sale and I distinctly remember the order 66 part f*king me up cause of just how sadistic it was (I was 7ish at the time). How did they think that novel was suitable for children
Because 90% of kids read that and have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever. It cant be real that i live in a time where my fellow people ask for even MORE insane age ratings for media than we already have.
The contingency plans and the inhibitor chip don't necessarily need to be exclusive. In the Traviss books, we learn that Palpatine is having Arcana Micro (Kamino's competitor) create clone troopers on Centex IV. They increased the growth acceleration time from 10 yrs to 1 yr. These troopers would be replacements that could have the inhibitor chips put in. The Kamino 1st generation clones could have learned the plans but not have the chips. The chips could have been added after Palpatine & his agents saw how close a relationship the Jedi & clones were creating. Also, the Jedi were all too willing to accept clones. In the EU, Quinlan Voss and others never liked the clones and treated them as no more than subhuman meat droids. You needed more of that in TCW. Pong Krell, much as I hate him, really showed this well. There had to be other Jedi that treated the troopers as callously as these two. (On a side note) I urge everyone to read all of Traviss's SW novels. They are very enjoyable, and the characters are so well developed. Also, she created the Mandalorian culture. TCW ruined it. You will learn to speak some Mando'a, ner vods.
Kandosii! Yeah Arkanian Micro and those Spaarti cylinders are wild, the troopers from those had such a weak mental stability though, due to the super short incubation period, flash trained while unconscious.
Except TCW showed it was kamino clones specifically who had the chips in them. Don't think centax iv even exists in current canon. As for Krell I'd agree if not for the fact he wanted or already had (can't remember exactly) become a traitor.
"The kid version of the novel is much more sadistic." Hey kids, skip to the part where Anakin slaughters Younglings X3 Nostalgia Critic: You know, for kids . . . XD
I mean the chips are obviously because clones like Rex became the viewers friends. I would say to great detriment of the plot. Order 66 on the venator would have been far more interesting with a mini civil war on saving or killing Ashoka.
I watched episode 3 in theaters for my birthday and from what I remember, the fact that the Jedi Order and Anakin was about to fall wasn’t a secret just from extra media but in my showing most people had seen the OG myself included. What we didn’t know was how the actual Order 66 was what we or I didn’t know but I knew SOMETHING was about to happen since again episode 4 but yeah
This is such a good video. I love the Legends' version of the prequels because of the difference between the characters are jarring when you see it yourself. The whole consideration of loyalty that Clones had was really cold and sad that they had feelings and thoughts on their inevitable betrayal.
I had a vague memory of reading the novelization before the movie was released. I can remember some kid at school was blabbing about how Anakin was burned with acid, and having read the novelization I got from the book fair, I proceeded to correct him with the facts. However, looking back, I thought I must be misremembering. No way they'd release the books spoiling the movie before it came out. This video just cleared my confusion up. Wild!
Finally, a video that actually fairly analyses all the different order 66 interpretations. Personally, I think both free will and inhibitor chips work for their respective timelines. Legends was way more focused on foreshadowing the original trilogy, so the clones had a lot more stormtrooper-like qualities that made them more capable/willing to go through with the order. The added bonus of this were having clone characters who „broke away“ from their programming and chose to do their own thing leading to many character writing opportunities. New cannon clones, however are all shown with a stronger focus on individuality and humanity. The chips were the perfect way of showcasing the tragedy of the clones by stripping them of said humanity, turning them from the jedi‘s greatest allies to the sword with which the sith slew them. This additionally tied into the plotline of the Empire treating them like nothing more than old tools.
The big problem is that the clones were not originally intended to be characters. They were just faceless tools to keep the plot moving. Which, yeah, has a lot of weird and interesting meta implications. I personally strongly dislike The Chips, mainly because I hate the "Evil Switch" as a writing crutch (it's extremely cheap and lazy), but also because they have such an overpowered effect that it makes no sense that they're _only_ used on the clones. Palpatine should be using these _everywhere._ In the end, it's just a way out from the multi-way collision of several authors all separately writing towards the same point. I can't really begrudge them that, but it does feel bad they didn't get the chance to come up with a more coherent answer.
"If droids could think, there would be none of us here would there?" Obi Wan just happens to stumble on a clone army 10 mins later. Lucas couldn't have been much more explicit about the role the clones were supposed to play.
@@pumpmyanxiety4447Can't speak for the other guy but the EU already had this handled. Everyone in the GAR, including the Jedi knew about Order 66 but never believed it would be used because the Jedi would never betray the Republic. The Clones were all pre-programed with loyalty to the Republic with levels of free will being dictated by rank and unit. So while say Scorch for example could refuse to execute the order, your average Clone would not because of their loyalty. This way the Clones still obey but it's not just an "evil switch" as OP called them
@@connorharnage6697Granted, those clones were specially bred clones like Nulls or Clone Commandos while the rank-and-file clones were much more like droids in thinking. My favorite example is from the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ where a group of clone commandos assigned with a jedi refused to follow Order 66, thinking it was a Separatist trick, while the regular clones followed it blindly to the point they were willing to use human wave tactics against the commandos to get at the Jedi.
I like to think that the inhibitor chips activated a hyper focus mode for the clones instead. Therefore the other contingency orders could exist, but when one was ordered, the clones’ inhibitor chips would force them to carry out said order
I thought the inhibitor chips make perfect sense: Order 66 only worked because the Jedi were taken by complete suprise, and had the clones been simply ordered to do it, the Jedi would have sensed their hostile intent.
Not necessarily. That would only hold up if the clones had any malice behind the order. However as things like the ROTS novel pointed out, they didn't. So the Jedi had little they could detect at that point.
They’d sense the activation of the chips, so no it being an order that they followed is no different in intent than any other order they obeyed when fighting for the Republic. The inhibitor chips were created for a bad retconned “reason” and they are STILL trying to force that narrative with the idea that the chips malfunctioning in some clones or causing them to become depressed, instantly.
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009I think the issue is that the existence of a mind control chip that is mass produceable and functional raises a ton of problems. Firstly, if the empire had such a technology, they could use it to enslave entire planets and destroy rebellions, so why does it never come up again? Secondly, using it for order 66 and suggesting some clones would’ve otherwise resisted the order means that the chip would have to be constantly on in clones who would otherwise rebel/dissent from imperial rule. While it might make sense in this instance, I think the existence of such a powerful technology problematizes other aspects of star wars more broadly
"I hesitated for a moment when I received Order 66 because the last thing I expected was a Jedi coup. Did I feel betrayed? You bet I did. I thought of all my men who died under Ki-Adi-Mundi's command, and if I'd known then that he and his buddies were gearing up to do the Separatists' work for them and overthrow the government, I'd have shot him as a traitor a lot earlier. He betrayed the trust of every one of us." - Commander Bacara In the og george lucas canon the clones were seen as simple instruments by most if not all jedi, which naturally made the clones secretly despise them. This is why so many did not even hesitate to shoot. The only case where compassion is shown is in Ayla Secura's death, as she was said to be one of the few jedi who cared for her troopers. As such, commander Bly and his men gunned her down in an instant so that she does not feel any pain. ''It is a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us would dare to look her in the eye''.
I personally prefer the giant list of publicly known contingencies that were all drilled into them so deeply as to be executed more like an instinct than with conscious thought. It just feels the most realistic. Sure, enough many clones might feel conflicted due to the bonds they'd formed with the Jedi, but conversely, after having fought alongside them for so long, the clones would also know just how deadly the Jedi could be and that if they really had turned traitor against the Republic any hesitation to take them out could be disastrous. They might regret it afterwords, but in the moment the need for swift decisive action lest all their fellow clones get slaughtered would be paramount. The chip just feels like a cheap copout by comparison.
Personally, to make both work, the chip activates on any of the 150 orders being given, but order 66 can activate extra hard if there’s a certain change in the mental state of the clones. All the clones that maintained a more regimented mindset such as they received as they were trained (which training did include preparation for order 66, they definitely knew that it was coming) then for those clones it would be a less severe form of activation of the chip
@@michaelyoung7261 Except none of that is indicated in the films and you just made it up. Not to mention the existence of the chips makes the events of the OT impossible.
@@Anzyn Not when you're stating it like it is a fact. Would be better if he phrased it like ‘I think..’ or ‘I would have liked it if…’. Something that sounds less like you actually think it’s true.
The Clone Wars took what was a morally grey moment where you didn't know if you should be mad or feel sympathy for the Clones. To this moment where both the Jedi and the Clones were the victims. The final season of the Clone Wars is so hard to watch. The scene where Rex is straight up crying because he knows what is going to happen to his brothers gets me every time. Knowing that whether they have to kill them or just abandon them in the crashing ship that no matter what happens they're all going to die hurts on so many levels. Or moments like in Fallen Order seeing Cal and the Clones have this fun playful banter back and forth just minutes before the order is given making Cal so scared, confused and reluctant to harm what he sees as his friends.
I am in the camp that prefers the original Clone Wars Multimedia Project. The Prequel stories came out in real time, and this was marvelously done with the CWMMP, through a shared continuity across video games, comics, novels, and the 2003 Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars TV show. Their continuity tied in with both former and future media as well, such as the Tales of the Jedi comics (the backstory for Knights of the Old Republic), and even stories which tied into Luke and other OT characters. Battlefront, Bounty Hunter, Republic Commando, Revenge of the Sith, and other video games were all a part of this, along with novels like Shatterpoint, or the comic stories of Jabiim and Defense of Kamino. The portrayal of the clones was more consistent with what we see in the movies, and personally I think the inhibitor chips were a huge copout just because they didn't want them to be the bad guys, when the whole point of the clones was that they were a tool contrived by the Sith to undermine the Jedi, which was only able to happen because of how intertwined in the Republic the Jedi had become. Had the Jedi not allowed their attachment to the Republic, they wouldn't have been spread out and trapped. Battlefront is the main piece of media that suggests that at least some of the clones knew what was going to happen. This may have been a creative liberty, but initially Order 66 was just a contingency order, and the Jedi misplaced their trust in the Republic. The clones were loyal to the Republic, not the Jedi, and ultimately Palpatine. I think the inhibitor chips are an even weaker writing point considering that the writers were then put into a corner, since they even went so far as to show the chips had erased some clone personalities in The Bad Batch, but all of a sudden the clones start leaving the Empire out of loyalty to the Republic, even though both are the same. It also makes Palpatine look incompetent by immediately getting rid of the clones for "expenses" when the Empire controls all galactic resources. The clones were also always willing to commit war crimes as they were essentially amoral. It was the Jedi who kept them in line, and once they were gone, the clones continued to fulfill their jobs as "perfect soldiers", which is stated in Attack of the Clones, that they were genetically modified to obey orders. The exception were ARC Troopers and Republic Commandos, to an extent. The inhibitor chips take away the nuance and complexity that the clones had, and totally defeat the purpose of a 7 season show that's about establishing the clones as individuals, when for the sole purpose of their creation, they are basically absent from it. Honestly the focus on the clones has become overbearing, and should have remained on the Jedi, with the clones in support roles. The Bad Batch is a perfect example; they're a more generic version of Delta Squad from Republic Commando, and a show set in the aftermath of Order 66 shouldn't be about the clones, it should be about Jedi being hunted down and trying to survive. That's exceptionally more interesting, and most of the older material did just that. The Dark Times and Purge comics, along with several novels, follow Vader hunting down various Jedi, along with those and other Jedi coming to terms with the downfall of the Order and the Republic. Just adapting those stories would have been better than certain people waning to make their mark on things, effectively watering down what made Star Wars appealing in the first place.
This video was nailing every single point... right until the end. No, you DON'T need to take the Clones' free will away. The entire point of them having that free will, and still choosing to follow the orders- except for the swath of examples of Clones who disobeyed, many of which weren't even brought up in this video- was to show the power of indoctrination. It was a parallel- like so many other aspects in Star Wars- to Nazi Germany in WWII. The Clones were 'just following orders'. They didn't get time to think about whether or not it was right to kill the Jedi. They were trained to do it if ordered, and for most Clones, they were in some sort of active battlefield, and through the power of their indoctrination, simply followed the order when it was given. That was the entire point, and the fact that more content got to flesh out some of the Clones as likeable should have been- and for a while was being- used to double down on making that point. It makes it even more tragic a tale to tell, and would have kept people coming back for more. That was the point. Then these stupid inhibiter chips flushed that all down the toilet.
I like the idea of more indepndent clones choosing to disobey order 66 (or just question a bit in general like Cut or Slick) but at the same time the friendship that is formed in the CW makes it feel like most clones would disobey if there wasn't something overriding their loyalty... its sad to see their autonomy stripped away, but it feels like both can't exist at the same time...
@@Marrianne415 The only difference is that the chips introduce a technology that would fundamentally change the Star Wars galaxy and make the OT as we know it impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet And the clones and droids in the original prequel canon don't? Like you're telling me that you could have an army of millions of mass produced soldiers, bred for combat effectiveness and loyalty, and Sidious doesn't fucking use them after the clone wars? Same garbage with the battle droids. Even the standard b1's being shown to be decently effective fighters throughout the prequels, yet they entirely disappeared. Droideka's had portable energy shields while also having the power to still use have heavy fire power. Yet despite having the shield technology capable of shielding the entire second death star, they never think to use those shields for in ground combat. I could go on, because so much of the empire's military, with the a few exceptions, is a strict downgrade from the republic and separatists. It was like that when the prequels released, and in a lot of ways it still is. The prequels committed the original sin by introducing all this technology that was far more advanced than the OT. This franchise has pretty much always had this issue of continually retconning itself in this way. At this point, you need to just roll with it.
@@angrypepe7615 don’t forget the fact that the at-te got scrapped, the arc-170 was replaced with a flimsy fighter with no shields, and capital ships evolved backwards from the venator(which was essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an aircraft carrier) to the ISD, which has a far smaller hangar and is designed for capital ship-capital ship combat, and is so ridiculously vulnerable to starfighter bombing runs (looking at the 2 golf balls shield generators sticking out the top of the bridge )
@@largiegorgle If you think about it logically tho, they are trying to police the entire galaxy. Id imagine spending the resources on better technology was seen as useless given the scale. Not to mention the Empire was corrupt and between the funding of both death stars and other people skimming money off the top, the Empire didn't really have the money to have this better tech. You also want to create divide amongst people. People pro empire vs anti empire. You are not gonna get that when you police everyone with a droid. Because at that point, the only pro-empire personnel you have are droids and leadership lol
@@Lobsterwithinternet the tech that only works if someone is born with it and was destroyed with the kaminoans ? An event that happens in both legends and canon ?
The film's explanation for the Jedi not being able to sense the clones thoughts was that it was Palpatine's shroud of the dark side that diminished the Jedi's thoughts. You think the Jedi would sense the clones thoughts. Having the chips made it so they couldn't sense those betraying thoughts and were then caught by surprise.
I always interpreted it quite simply: The clones were taught/ trained/ programmed order 66 as a possibility, not a certainty. They were taught that should the jedi ever need to be taken down, an order was ready to do so. I dont think most of them knew it would happen, but only considered it a possibility. Hence why some clones became friends with jedi, they probably thought order 66 was extremely unlikely to happen so they grew close to them its also why I thought some clones didn't execute the order, as they knew the jedi too well and refused to act on it.
I think I agree. In a vacuum I like the idea of it being hidden in plain site among 150 contingency orders. And most clones being obedient enough to follow through while some few refused and deserted. But the Clone Wars show doesn't really work with that because of how much it fleshed out the clones and and their bonds with the Jedi.
Good video, Michael. :) I think I am not so much opposed to the version including the chip but to the breaking of continuity that took place with the Clone Wars series. Separately both versions are fine and provide some really good moments to us. I was really hit by the coverup that costs Fives his life and also am remembering the scene when Rex forces himself to give one last piece of information to Ahsoka, before shooting at her as a moment I was deeply touched. Similarly I felt much awe when I read the Vader novel and followed the few clones rejecting their orders. I find the idea of people being created so fiercely loyal and obedient to a certain thing that almost nothing can stop them from following their orders, even if they have to shoot their comrades for it, quite fascinating.
I can still remember going to school early so I could use the library’s internet connected computer and read Episode 3’s script. And it was literally the script, like months before release. It was so cool. I feel so old now. Addendum: I feel “spoiler culture” is a relatively new thing. Some might blame JJ Abrams and his mystery boxes. My cynical take is spoilers gaining taboo status was engineered by movie studios to ensure they wouldn’t lose ticket sales from people hearing the plot sucked before they paid to find out for themselves
Eh, I think it's fun to enjoy a movie or story or something if you don't already know what happens. But then again it's also fun to rewatch something you like.
At least in my head there are no chips or such nonsense. The clones decided to follow order 66 because they were trained to do so just as they would have followed any other of the 150 contingency orders.
Another thing to mention is that many clones were able to somewhat resist order 66 because of their strong feeling towards the Jedi, for example, when captain Rex was able to hesitate to shoot Ahsoka.
I prefer the old timeline because we saw clones disobey, and, also in the Karen Traviss books, we know that most jedi didn't get close to their troops. at most, you'd see them get close to the Clone Commanders, at their side, but not the rank and file troopers. of course there were also several examples of jedi getting close to all their troops, and you even mentioned the romance between Etain and Darman. As such, it was easier to see clones willingly execute a contingency order. It being an order, that the clones thought was public knowledge to the jedi, (it's been a while since I read the series, but I feel like I half remember a throw away line when certain characters end up at Kyrimorut) I'm fairly certain it was later revealed that the jedi weren't able to see all the contingency orders, or maybe I'm misremembering it being that the jedi that could, were kept too busy to do so. However, I'm also a huge fan of The Clone Wars tv show, Rebels, The Bad Batch, and The Mandalorian. Most of which wouldn't work without the inhibitor chips. I feel disney accidentally wrote themselves into a corner with how close they made the the Jedi and the Clones. Had they primarily kept an emotional distance between the 2 groups, you could still have the few clones we got to know maybe disobey, but with so many clones revering their jedi generals, you essentially did need to brainwash the clones to not have mass dereliction of orders.
As for how the clones were able to take out the Jedi so easily, it helped greatly that the genetic template for the clones was a Mandalorian. Warriors who specialized in fighting Jedi.
Commenting before finishing the video because i wanted to share my unchanged opinion I really like the head chips influencing the clones. Yes, it takes away palpatine's influence over the governing orders of the republic during the war But, what this detail gave us was some of the most heart wrenching scenes from the clone wars and other media. Like Rex crying because he had to betray his brothers to save ahsoka at the end of clone wars, or the jedi having absolute trust in them Its way more believable that the clones were forced to obey over just being told to do it. Especially since the jedi can read minds, they would've picked up on that plan super quickly. I dunno, I like this retcon. It makes the overall narrative of the prequel era and the clones so much better to me
The pinnacle moment for me (which 'The Clone Wars' animated added into the Order 66 canon) was the final moment between Ahsoka and Rex, as he walks off to take a communication, and you know what's coming. Taking into account the conversation they were having moments earlier, it makes the rest of that episode absolutely heartbreaking to endure. The animation fleshed out Order 66 for the better; taking an already tragic moment, into something deeply emotional and heartbreaking.
Clonewars clones would take one look at each other when order 66 is ordered out of nowhere and go like: "ok someone hacked our comms" "thats what _I_ was about to say"
I'm glad you brought up the Republic Commando novels. That series is my favorite Star Wars book series. Definitely wish that 6th and final book was made, but what we got in the 5 and the gameare perfection
The original order 66 being that every clone follows the order willingly is always going to be my favorite as them needing a mund control chip makes the "obedient army" thing entirely pointless
It really doesn’t, it basically just makes them physically incapable of disobeying extreme orders when legends had way more examples of clones disobeying order 66
I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters when I was 11. I guess I’m the only kid that wasn’t shocked by Order 66 or needed an explanation. I saw it as soldiers following orders. They didn’t work for the Jedi, they were Republic units.
I liked the original reasoning for Order 66. Gives more agency to clones, is more realistic, brutal, and gives commentary on what it means to be a soldier/active agent in democracy
I prefer the timeline without the inhibiter chip. I like the idea of the clones being programmed to do so like a sleeper agent, being shocked in remembering what the orders entail, and having to decide whether to follow them or not. I like the idea of them questioning the orders, with some of them feeling betrayed by the Judi they were about to kill because... Why were they ordered to kill them? How did this person I trust suddenly become a traitor that the Chancellor wanted dead? I like the emotions of anger the clones had towards the Jedi for being traitors, causing them to act rashly and kill them, following orders. I like the emotions of the clones who realize that the real traitor was the one issuing the orders, and they refused to follow them. I'm not a fan of the chips because they get rid of the clones' decisions. It also gets rid of potential story plots that can be symbolic of real-life soldiers' decisions, where they had justified the atrocious things they had done as simply following orders. The moral quandry disappears because the clones are just straight-up innocent with the chips.
I would like to point out that there were over a hundred of these contingency orders. For all sorts of different scenarios. They were kept "secret" to an extent, but there was a plan in place to explain it all if the Jedi ever discovered them. Order 66 was just one amongst dozens upon dozens of different orders that could be given. There was even one that would have the clones immediately arrest the supreme chancellor. Palpatines plan was that if the jedi ever asked questions he would just point out that order and use it to convince them that these contingencies were nothing more than last resort plans for worst case scenarios.
I prefer the Legends version. We’ve seen time and time again in real life how people who were once close can quickly turn on each other. And those who, even if they disagree with the order, will still follow through. Case in point, Nazi Germany. It’s well documented that many of the citizens did not agree with what was going on, soldiers as well. Yet they went through with it regardless. In Star Wars it was through undying loyalty trained into the clones, in real life it was so they didn’t get killed themselves. It also allows for the Clones to regret their actions on a more personal level. They weren’t forced to kill the Jedi, they chose to. The betrayal cuts even deeper, and it also means those who watched the Empire grow and turn into something they hated would feel even more remorse. While I do like the Inhibitor chips, they remove a lot of agency from the Clones.
I think the inhibitor chips (or the idea of them) were cooler than the clones just obeying without question on their own I like that the clone wars gave the clones personalities and individuallity, without an external factor a large portion if not a majority would choose to not execute it or AT LEAST hesitate before killing their best friend. The fact that the clones' hard earned free will was ripped away from them is narratively amazing and heartbreaking. Although i think the physical inhibitor chip was a little too on the nose. I would have prefered that they were like sleeper agents and when specifically Order 66 was given their subconscious conditioning would kick in winter soldier style.
Order Sixty six is one of the saddest moments in Star Wars. A whole culture that had been surviving for thousands of years wiped out in 1 day (the newest movies aren’t canon) so many died and that was the moment that would cause pain and suffering not just then but for decades afterwords
For the longest time I hated the inhibitor-chip-zombie-good-soldiers-follow-orders angle, it removed the betrayal aspect from this Space Opera...However, there are some creative fan videos on YT suggesting the Clone's perspective during Order 66 and they actually made me appreciate the now Canonical excuse. Loacher Films implied the inhibitor caused the Clones to mis-member how the Jedi were and made them villinous. Dudu Films also managed to show how Legends & Canon can go hand in hand, including how they handled Order 66 Both are Worth a watch!
I personally really enjoy the pre-chip lore. I think it adds a lot more depth to the event with the clones each having to make that choice. I think it also adds a lot more interesting lore and stories for the few clones that resisted that order and the moral conflict it brings. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to believe that a clone army, based around a Jedi Killer and bred and trained for absolute loyalty to the command structure, would carry out the order especially when that was the plan behind their entire creation. I think it’s a bit over the top that every clone knew before hand so I personally like it being a surprise for the Jedi and the clones. Beyond that, the chip literally just turns them into mindless droids which is incredibly dull comparatively.
Man I feel old now. I remember watching Revenge of the Sith when I was five in the theater. It was my first experience of a Star Wars movie on the big screen.
The idea that the clones had inhibitor chips was always there George always wanted the clones and Jedi to have close ties which can seen in the scenes with Cody in ep 3 and in the 2D clone wars show which was released in between ep 2 and 3 and the 3D clone wars show was able to expand on the Jedi and clone relationship and the inhibitor chips since most of the major storylines were George’s ideas and he worked with the show’s team to fully develop the scripts and storyboards. George was very involved in the clone wars shows he was consulted on all storylines and changed things that didn’t line up with his vision and came up with many storylines for the shows.
@@Lobsterwithinternet the force was something that Lucas never could decide on what it was But the clones he absolutely could He even ordered an show that he paid with his own money to show clones being the complete opposite from the EU It was called The Clone Wars
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 George was always straightforward about what the Force was and what the dark and light sides as well as balance meant. The Light was Balance while the Dark side was a corruption of that balance. No Force Gods. No balance between light and dark. It's that simple. Except that it also contradicts the films. If he wanted to retcon the films, why is TCW T-Canon rather than G-Canon?
Honestly the chips only make sense for those like Plo or Obi Wan, but their had been jedi who are more like Krell or just terrible commanders in general that clones would execute without any problem at all if ordered. But all you still have a few clones who did actually disobey the order. I kinda don't mind when there wasn't any chip, for like the 501st, when they marched to the temple, they have no attachment to any Jedi besides Anakin, and maybe few others like Obi Wan. But for most part they don't mind killing
idk why people are so pissed about the genetic chips, I thought that was the more deep dive explanation for the line "they are bred to follow any order" it was never said "trained to follow any order" they specifically said bred, genetically tailored to be totally loyal only reason people got this idea was because battlefront 2's campaign was so beloved by a whole generation. It's very good but honestly the clone wars writing just makes more sense and better written then a random one off game also explains why clones weren't around anymore in the empire Also doesn't make sense if the clones knew they were gonna betray the Jedi and harbored this hatred and indoctrination the Jedi would have sensed that, it's apart their basic abilities to sense those things even in their weakened stripped down state they were in as an order
If they arecbred to be obedient, hiding the cancer chip won't be necessary. Plus, it was a easy plot clutch for writers to just make clones evil instead of the complex of the clones being indoctrinate to follow orders while clones being of Jango Fett who hate jedi.
The Jedi Council sat in the same room as the dark lord of the Sith for over a decade without noticing...and you think they were going to just notice the big betrayal plan...by said Sith...while fighting spread out across the galaxy. Yeah, no. There's a reason only Yoda reacted in time.
I like the EU/old version better, the chip thing was completely unneeded. The Order 66 thing was clearly based on history(realize that Lucas drew a lot from both history and mythology and other things for SW), an example when Constantius the 2nd decided to purge the Roman Imperial Family, which many were within the Roman military and so....those who supported Constantius...killed them. Or one could look at it as the purge of the Knights Templar, where their Order was pretty much wiped out by King Philip. So on and so forth. The chip thing...was completely unnecessary.
I don’t think it was about, but Palpatine isn’t stupid. He known that certain clones would end up with better Jedis than others. Honestly, I don’t believe any clone’s loyalty would side with Sidious over a Jedi like Aayla Secura for example. Like, sure, some would probably side with him, but is it really that believable that Sidious wouldn’t put in a failsafe to make sure EVERY Jedi actually die?
@BarneyisJehova Attack of the Clones literally set up Order 66 by having the leader of Kaminoans say that "The clones have been genetically modified to be more obedient". Clone commanders, Arc Troopers, and Clone Commandos were not as heavily modified for obedience as standard Clone Troopers giving them more independence and free will.
@@26th_Primarch What clone is stupid enough to side with the corrupt politician that started a proxy war to make his brothers and friends die in mass, over the Jedi, who constantly fought with them?
@@BarneyisJehova by how Star Wars canon is actually tiered Filoni's Clone Wars literally aren't canon because the inhibitor chips actually violate the canon established in the prequel films.
I think it’s ridiculous to have the “need” for the chip. It’s so stupid. The whole point of the clones were to be perfect soldiers. Perfect soldiers obey orders. Love it or hate it, perfect soldiers will obey orders as commanded. To me that’s what made order 66 so impactful was the fact that even if some of them didn’t want to, it’s not their job to reason why, it’s only their job to do or die.
"the clones knew they would soon turn on the jedi" Only in the half-cocked, rushed og battlefront 2 campaign. Its totally absurd that the clones were actively aware and planning to kill their generals, and that contradicts the rest of the EU
I always understood it that the Clones had a subconscious message that was triggered by telling them to execute Order 66. When I watched Episode 3 back in 2005, it never felt like the clones would betray the Jedi.
@@beyondlimitationsvideo Honestly this does make sense, as Fives(?) literally says as he's dying about how the nightmares and "the mission" is finally over, seemingly with all the other Clones implicitly understanding what this mission was even if they didn't openly state it.
To me it was always that the clones saw the Jedi as gods. The. They began to notice tactical faults in their gods. Same goes for the Secura stuff. They weren’t ashamed they knew about order 66. They had been misleading the Jedi. That’s what they were ashamed of. It was pretty clear on Mygeeto that they were ordered to mislead Mundi.
This is another case of the intresting and good ideas of the prequels that were sometimes not so well executed being executed better (or fixed) in other SW media
The Inhibitor Chips were such a stupid concept and Dave Filoni is such a hack writer. Order 66 went -so- much harder when the clones carried out Order 66 on their own full volition. in the old EU, the Jedi were just such awful generals that got so many clones killed that by the time of Order 66 the surviving clones were frothing at the mouth to kill some Jedi in the same way soldiers would mutiny against corrupt officers.
Honestly, I call bullshit on "The Jedi being terrible" was the reason for the justification of Order 66. Like, Palpatine was INSANELY corrupt. Literally, why would any Clone side with him? And barely any Jedi were explicitly said to be terrible leaders. For example: Aayla Secura. I don’t remember any clone or material talking about the Jedi being terrible leaders.
@@TheKiltedGerman Do you really think that if the choice was between 1943 Hitler and someone like Lincoln, that Hitler would still be as popular? No, ofcourse not.
@@BarneyisJehova You clearly haven't read anywhere enough history. Also, Lincoln wasn't on the ballot. Also, the clones had zero participation in politics.
Personally, I really prefer the chip reason rather than simply the clones following orders. It was reported that some clones refused to obey in the old cannon, but you would’ve thought it would be a higher percentage than that. This way it could be so seamless with the chip implanted, which let’s face it is something Palpatine would have wanted to do anyway. It’s reasoned now that the real reason why Tups Chip malfunctioned was because he had already carried out or 66 technically when he executed Pon krell. Because the chip had not been activated, but he had already done the order, it created a sort of feedback loop.
Tup didn’t kill Krell. Also it wouldn’t make sense for a higher percentage to disobey the order as there was almost a perfect set of conditions that would have to be met that would make disobeying the order even much of a considerable option for the clones.
@ that’s just it, clones fighting for 3 to 4 years under these Jedi generals would have gained a deep royalty to them. They were bred not to have any opinions but to follow orders but let’s be honest that’s not possible, if you want to have organic living troops and they will learn and gain opinions for themselves. A seamless execution like in Star Wars revenge of the Sith, was almost too perfect for an organic army. A control chip actually made it far more elegant and realistic.
In episode 2 the kaminoians say that they changed the clones genetics to make them follow any order without question, there was never any need to change anything because they're not normal people. That's the whole tragedy, because they follow any order without question, when they got order 66 they thought it was the right thing because their brains had been changed to be literally unable to question orders. In the original canon I guess they werent forced to do it so much as they just didn't question if it was right or wrong. The whole inhibitor chip thing is so stupid and takes away a lot of the tragedy to me, as well as the decisions to turn all of our favourite clone characters against the empire eventually - it feels like the writers are just so unable to make their characters be the bad guys.
@@Lobsterwithinternet You're right. I don't dislike Filoni as much as lots of people do but he loves a happy ending too much, always tries to soften any blow.
i like the idea of there being a ton of orders, and i do think that since there is at least 66, that's probably still the case. i think the chip is probably just to change their view on the Jedi, and kind of reboot their brain in that area so they get mind controlled. it is kind of crazy thinking about they are just quietly waiting for their time to strike, but i enjoy the clones in the show so much that I'm glad they do it without a choice vs turning on their family
36:36 The main reason Wrecker’s activated was because it was already supposed to but his modifications slowed the process down, Tup was literally one in a million
Thanks for watching :) if you enjoyed send it to you friends and lmk which version of Order 66 you like better! If this video does well I'll start working on another fun long one. Do you guys want jawas, zillo beast, or more clones?
Why aren't you checking out the joes versus cobra fight around Lady Liberty? Bit parts!
Zillo, Jaws or more clones all sound like great long videos, I'd watch any of those.
Along with the changes made to order 66 it's also interesting just how much the concept of the Cline Wars changed in the old canon between Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith
Disney bought all of Star Wars in 2006. George Lucas had no connection to Star Wars at all by 2008 when the purchase was fully completed and Disney ended up having to kick George Lucas off the property of Disney when George Lucas went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney Film industries pissed off claiming he was not paid for the purchase of Star Wars. George Lucas bought a bunch of crap and that stuff broke because he crashed them or he did stupid shit with them. Disney paid George Lucas $8.7 billion and George Lucas lost 100% of the money in less than 2 years. Yes that is correct. Also George Lucas has lost everything he owned and is living in the spare bedroom of his niece who is the only family member who is willing to take care of him because he has pissed off every other family member he has. He is blatantly an elderly bum living off his niece who literally takes care of him. George Lucas did in fact lose about $50 million which he for some unknown stupid reason put $50 million on pre paid gift cards and he lost them because he ripped his cloths off somewhere and wen streaking down San Francisco butt ass naked screaming about Disney sent the white rabbit mafia with their taco mounts are trying to take over the world. George Lucas was fucked up on some kind of drug and his $50 million he put on gift cards which turned out he stappled to his closes were never found. He literally bought a stapler and stapled the cards to his cloths at the Target he bought the gift cards. The Target employees just thought hell he just got money and was doing stupid shit with it for fun but turns out that was the last money out of his $8.7 billon. He spent every dime in less than a couple of months then got taken back to his home after he was a complete lunatic. Then creditors started calling and he didn't have any money left and he kind of accidentally burn the mansions he bought to the ground along with crashing his super yachts and he crashed all the cars and even some how destroyed his new helicopter by hitting the helicopter with one of his new cars. His main mansion got repossessed because he owed way too much in taxes and stuff. George Lucas then went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney film studios claiming Disney never paid him and just stole Star Wars from him and Disney ha enough and they banned him for life and had him escorted off the property in cuffs. His niece bailed him out and took him home with her and George Lucas has not stopped his blatant lying about Disney because he is a crazy old man who literally is pissed off because he went broke because of his own stupidity and yet can't except responsibility. Mark Hammel has also been banned for life because Mark Hammel has pulled similar shit after getting drunk off his ass and then picking fights in which he went into the Marvel filming studio and tried telling Robert Downy Jr how to act and punching Robert before Robert knocked out several teeth of Mark and Mark got escorted out in cuffs as well. Mark gets really stupid when he drinks which he is always drunk. Its actually why the last movie didn't even have Mark Hammel in it at all it was CGI and half way threw the second to last movie Mark became CGI as well an no one really notices.
Canon because it is more sadder
I love the Karen Traviss books, and she's a nice person too, talked with her once about book six
Well you musn't forget what the Kaminoans said in episode 2. Where Obi-Wan is shown around. "They are totally obedient, taking any order without question. We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host."
There was the entire explanation right from the beginning.
Poster the video needs to pin this
Yeah order 66 wasn't genetic, but following orders basically was.
He is just trying to sell his "pen". The Kaminoans are untrustworthy from the start. We all know it was a play from Sidious from the start so why trust what the Kaminoans said?
Sure this was the original explanation. But Clone Wars contradicted it with the first season already and honestly it makes sense that the kaminoans oversold their "product". After we learn the clones are indeed able to have their own views and see themselves as individuals it needed a new explanation. Ofc this wasn't the original idea but it worked out great in my opinion. The whole plot with Fives, Rex resisting order 66. All of that is peak Star Wars.
@@thefrozenfire659 don't try to explain plot holes created by the CW show that didn't exist in the first place. The clones were always meant to be the child slave army of the republic with no free will. Only Arc troopers and Commandos had said free will because of their operations.
If you read any comic, you easily see that the clones were never meant to even have character. The ones we know by name are the only ones with free will, the rest were meant to just be a obedient army that followed orders to the T.
@@blade8741I don’t care about those comics. There is just too many to count and the movies, shows and games clearly don’t take from them much, considering how much of a clusterf*ck the EU is. My question is why did George Lucas write that idea in Attack of the Clones with the clones being totally blindly obedient when he was going to clearly be doing something different later on? His mind always runs in circles.
33:07 I actually like the idea of the 150 orders, and I think it still fits into canon. If palpatine ordered any one of the 150 orders the clones would mindlessly obey them like they did with 66
Or at least that’s what he would have told the Jedi.
@@RichelieuUnlimited actually that's why they were 150 in total: to remove any suspicion from Order 66 as it blends in with the rest.
Except the ones that have to come from the senate, etc. Maybe.
I would dare say that 66 is the only one the inhibitor chip worked on as that was the plan all along. While the others were "optional" meaning the clones could disobey, but likely wouldn't. Even the way the story is presented in battlefront 2 still fits to a degree as Rex isn't in the game, meaning it could be following a detachment of the 501st that were taking direct orders from palpatine the entire time, instead of Anakin or Rex.
@GavinStewart-ci6yx the addition of the inhibitor chip goes against the genetic modification of the clones for less independence and total obedience since birth (established in the films), and only serves the purpose to explain the clones executing Order 66 in light of their controversial portrayal in TCW as the "good" guys, which they never were to begin with. They've always been an army created to destroy the Jedi as part of the Sith conspiracy. They were fully aware of Order 66 before it happened and it was their conscious choice to obey it, and not due to the brainwashing of some chip in their heads.
I find Palpatine calling every single clone commander individually (in the Junor version of the RotS novel) to be so funny.
Must have been awkward to call one who just had his Jedi general die.
'Commander Jimbo, the time has come. Execute Order 66.'
'Yes Lord Sidious, but General Shitto just got ventilated by a squad of Droidekas.'
'Oh. Well um, good job anyways Commander'.
That's what I always assumed happened because in the movie he addresses Cody specifically
He starts out being all dramatic and slow but by the 2176th commander hes just like "do order 66 bye"
Yeah I'd be guessing he called the important ones generals personally like Obi Wan's, Yoda's and some of the other council members' and then just posted the command in the clone group chat
@ExplosiveAnanasok, you won the award, I exploded reading this lmao.
The Plo Koon scene is probably one of the best things to show when you talk about why the chips were needed. No matter how disciplined your troops are, you could never convince them to turn on someone who truly fought, bled and cared for you.
Real life history tells us this is not the case
@@SkywalkerFoe yep
yep history show but really these clone spent decade being doctrine and brainwash to follow order and the republic, them only spending example like plo koon for like 4 year is not enough to betray the republic.
The Romans had something very similar to Order 66 that did in fact take place.
This isnt even Wolfpack clones who fought along Koon on Cato Neimodia
You give people far too much credit. Not to go all rule 34, but in Germany, people literally ratted their neighbors out for no other reason than because the party told them that they were the problem, in complete contravention to reality and their personal experience.
Now, take soldiers who are mentally conditioned to follow orders, had even less inhibitions against rounding up and interning the ' undesirables '.
This is why it is very believable that humans raised from birth to follow orders would, against all evidence of their own experiences, would gun down the Jedi.
"...19 years..."
Me: suddenly shrinks into a wrinkly old green gremlin, feelin my age iykyk
The time between RoTS releasing and today is now the same as the time between order 66 and the battle of yavin.
16:00 I Will say the Battle Front 2 game (amazing game btw) is more of a reflection, so its a stormtrooper looking back on his journal, thus why each mission begins as journal #. So that may clean up some of the confusion about clones "Knowing" about Order 66.
It’s probably also worth noting that even back then, most SW games were of dubious canon relative to the films. So you can partially put a lot of the clone in the journals view points down to a creative interpretation of how they might see events. Rather than it aligning perfectly with the films or other expanded SW media.
Yes, it's easy to have "always known" something after a more-than-mind-control chip edits your brain to make you think that you've always known.
No
It's a reading the journal entries, with their titles fronted
Why would they make it some round about "reflection" that makes zero sense.
Oh look, trash YT randomly censored my comment for no reason.
It's most likely a memoir, too many entries talk as if it was some distant event that he is now reflecting on. See text such as "what I remember about the rise of the empire" for an example.
Palpatine: Execure order 65... Wait... Wrong one-
*Door explodes and a whole army enters in the room*
Palpatine: Sh*t...
Commander Fox: Ive been waiting for this moment. At last, you are no more!
lol I was thinking the same!
I just imagined this but with the FBI OPEN UP MEME but with clones
Order 65 is actually worse than Order 66. I may be mistaken, but I think O65 is when the clones would take hostages civilians and start murdering them until the Jedi would surrender themselves to be executed by the clones to stop the civilians bloodshed
Didnt the lego skywalker saga make a joke about order 67 being a dance number? Imagine if he was down one instead of up one 💀
Im just going to say it. Palpatine calling every clone commander individually is pretty dumb.
It would take him 10,000 calls and days to get it done.
Edit: Ok, so before anymore torches and pitchforks come at me. I did assume that Palps can do a mass holo call from the movies.
I was referring to the Junior Novel described 5:39 - 6:07.
Pretty sure the only commander he addresses by name in the movie is Cody. Probably did him first specifically to get rid of Obi Wan. Gotta be dramatic for the first transmission leading into the new galactic order. Seemed the rest of the commanders got the same generic message.
It's implied in the movie that it had to take place at the exact same time for it to work. We see that it came later for Yoda, and he already knew what was coming because he sensed Jedi all across the galaxy dying.
@@battlesheep2552It was even explained in The Bad Batch that if the clones didn’t receive the initial transmission from Palpatine, they would be sent a text message telling them to execute Order 66.
@@battlesheep2552 Thank you for that. I was going to comment that the order was distributed at the same time, but you beat me to it.
It was distributed at the same time, the order was.
The biggest reason why the chips had to be introduced is that Filoni made the clones too loyal. We needed more generals like Krell. We needed clones to resent Jedi for being so gung-ho, or being poor generals. It would have made it more complex, to have the clones constantly mulling over what they must do, and have dissent grow
I dont think they just made the clones to loyal. They straight up made them to nice. They follow morals that are objectively good, unlike their Legends portrayal, even though they are breed as soldiers, not as peace keepers.
The only time a clone from the TV Show did something that comes closer to their Legends portrayal, is in the Umbara-Arc, there one clone executes an Umbaran without remorse. When I watched the episode as a kid, I thought the show was setting up the clones darker side
The chips are the retcon to explain the retcon that is everything that show does with clones
Yeah, I call bullshit. Even in Legends, the Jedi were explained to be respected by the clones.
For example: Aayla Secura. Even the 501st logs said she was respected among her own clones. So no, I honestly don’t believe a sane human, or clone would follow through with this order.
@BarneyisJehova Well, Ki-Adi-Mundi was one of those Jedi which was resented by the Galactic Marines. In legends they really took satisfaction in killing him because of how poor a general he was. I think we needed to see more of that, or at least get some sense of reasoning, because that makes better drama. It almost feels too impersonal when it's just a mind control chip, rather than following through on real character driven feelings
@@quartztemplar3676 Sure, Ki was kind of a terrible General. But that’s the exception, not the norm. And we have to remember, Palpatine is insanely corrupt. If we make the Clones able to think, then I highly doubt they’d side with Sidious, especially when considering the Clones have to know that Sidious is leading the CIS. So why would they side with the guy who’s sending them to a proxy war?
Fun fact there was another one that got scrapped of a jedi surviving the purge only because he didnt use clones and instead used his own militia which would later be the design for the rebel alliance
From star wars the force unleashed game
Bro just say General Kotta we all know him lol
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 True you right
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 Rahm Kota*
But who was it though? You can’t just leave me hanging here.
Palpatine is the most intelligent movie villain. Bro literally fooled an entire galaxy and toppled a government that stood for 25,000 years.
**Empire only lasts 25yrs**
@Jay42207 bro was so intelligent that it took the "plot" to defeat him.
@@Jay42207TBF that's not entirely his fault. If he wasn't going against Skywalker, it would've lasted longer
More like everyone else was so stupid that they couldnt figure out the hooded guy was the sith lord and trusted the strange hooded man even as they were killed.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Nobody ever saw him like that until TCW screwed it up (As TCW is prone to do)
Personally I think a mixture of both should have applied.
The thing is, would Palpatine really have left the clones, the weapon he would use to wipe out the Jedi, to make the final decision on their own? Yeah they're genetically bred to be more obedient, but I don't think Palpatine would be the type of person to have his all encompassing plan to leave a gap, however small, to have a failure if the clones just mostly refuse the order, especially for units like the 501st and Wolfpack, both of whom adore their Jedi commanders.
The whole mind control thing however is a bit lazy, but it opens up a whole new angle to the clones that I feel almost everybody talking about Order 66 misses: the chips reframe the clones because they are now also victims in the whole ordeal. They never wanted to kill their masters but were forced to. I think that makes Order 66 hit harder and is the primary reason why the canon Order 66 is also accepted heavily. There's also the fact that the alternative raises tons of questions, such as to why Cody, after being such close friends would so unflinchingly blast Obi Wan off the cliff.
Personally I think the whole chips vs orders debate really boils down to what you want Order 66 and the clones to be. If you want it to be even more horrifying, with the clones as essentially living droids or super soldiers, the Orders explanation will appeal to you. But if you want Order 66 to be instead the galaxy's greatest tragedy, and the clones to be happy puppets on a string, unaware that the puppetmasters want them to dance, the chips are probably your headcanon.
@@arandomcommenter0135 Except the chips introduce a technology that (like most of Filoni’s slop) completely derails the OT and makes the events of the films impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternethow exactly? The chips could only really work when used with the clones. As I’m certain more people would’ve noticed the government throwing thousands upon thousands of people into brain surgery. Not even the greatest tactical mind can cover that up forever
@@Lobsterwithinternetno it doesn’t, stop the cap.
@@RazuX5 So mind control chip wouldn't affect how the OT plays out?
The only cap I'm hearing is yours.
@ it doesn’t because FYI the clones get replaced by human recruits before the OT happens ya 🤡
I always thought (but could easily be wrong) that originally the clones didn't know they were soon *going* to turn on the jedi, but rather there were a hundred or so "orders" for every possible scenario, of which this was just the 66th one.
Oh, now I understand where I got that idea!
@@Wintermute909what did you learn?
@@Icemario87 cant speak for him but i know the Republic Commando Book series dabled a bit with this idea.
basically saying that A) the Jedi simply didnt "care" enough to look at the emergency Order list of 150 Orders, from arresting the Chancelor to a full Base Delta Zero on key strategic worlds if they side with the Seperatist.
and B) the Clones, as a whole, not being fully on board with the Jedi.
as well as one very vital "viewpoint" imo.,paraphrased.
"we(then soldiers on the ground) didnt question the orders because we do NOT have the full picture, The ONE order we choose to ignore, may have been the order that was meant to keep us alive". And when force sensitive beings are involved(which, funfac,t Jedis arent the only "group" or species of dangerous individuals for which an Order existed)
there is also the whole mess of the Centax II Clones which where the bulk of the 501st on Coruscant as well as reinforcing the wider GAR, who didnt have ANY loyalty to the jedi as they where born like.. yesterday
@@weberman173 fascinating....
That's basically how it was described in the clone wars novels and in the episode 3 book. The Clones were modified to obey orders. Just because they can think more creatively of how to accomplish those orders in any given combat situation is not the same thing as choosing to not obey a direct order given directly too you from the all high commander that you've trained or really just brainwashed since birth to be loyal to. The Republic of which the Chancellor is the elected leader of is where there loyalties where actually supposed to be. The Jedi are not directly under Republic rule and there's all this grey area between them and the rest of the Republic as to how things work and who answers to whom. It's sort of like how the Vatican isn't technically part of Rome or the way that the District of Columbia is different from the rest of the U.S. But Order 66 meant that the Jedi had betrayed the Republic and therefore needed to be killed. To most genetically modified/indoctrinated clones, even ones that had spent plenty of time with their Jedi Generals, didn't question these orders and there really wasn't any need for the brain chip. Sidious wasn't really suppose to be leaving that much to chance as some people argue because it was like a codeword to activate a sleeper agent. See The Manchurian Candidate. It was just another unneeded change(Like changing Korriban to Moraband. I mean wtf? Why? Jango Fett not being the last true Mandalorian or even a Mandalorian at all. The Dark Saber instead of the Madalor's Helmet which also seems to be where the idea of non Force sensitive individuals being able to wheeled lightsabers.) on top of a lot of other things that aren't really that great about the Clone Wars series when you step back and look at the show more objectively. I honestly started slowly loosing more interest in Star Wars since The Clone Wars started airing because of these kinds of things. I could go on a bit more, but I also came to realize that I just didn't really have the energy anymore to explain it to everyone who was sooooo in love with the show they want to call it PEAK SW. And ultimately it just didn't matter.
I'm torn between the two variations of 66. BF2. On one hand, through the 501st journals, you hear that the clone looks back on the events leading up to Order 66 and his inner dialogue from those evens (even tho he shouldn't have been to every planet in that campaign). You hear in some cases, he saw the jedi as arrogant since they didn't wear armor and stuff, and when talking about Secura, he sounded somewhat remorseful for following through with the order.
On the other hand, the CW show gave us clones with so much humanity, that they needed a way that would *force* them to follow through the order without them looking like they did a 180° to follow order 66.
I mean, don't forget that in BF2, the journal was being written in hindsight. There are stories in canon of clones who executed Order 66, didn't know about the chips, and are trying to justify their actions. BF2 can easily be viewed through those lens.
Clones are clones for a reason, not some army of poor children. They were raised with loyalty to Republic in mind, and with only war as their craft. When Empire was established, there were Private Military companies of clones who were basically mercenaries, because clones had no other traits. They are genetically less rebellious and more obedient, essentially just a droids that cant be repaired
Clones being brainwashed from the beginning fits the pottery of the arc of the movies more.
"Technological robots vs biological robots fight a pointless war for misled people in order to usurp both" parties
I don't see why it's a contradiction to have clones with personality and feelings but still have them be totally loyal soldiers. Like, they were specifically created to be perfect soldiers and their allegiance was with the republic and not the jedis. I always liked that as commentary on real life war, as soldiers are still normal (often good) people but they still in general follow any orders given - even stuff like dropping bombs on civillian areas or turning against their former allies - all in the name of their country.
Hot take here but I think the clones knowing FROM THE JUMP that order 66 was going to be given is dumb as fuck that makes no sense
An important detail about the RC books is that the main characters, both ARCs and Commandos, were trained by mandalorian instructors who didn’t like the Jedi in the first place. Most ARCs and Commandos were encouraged to pursue their individuality while still being part of a unit. It makes sense why they’d have mixed reactions to Order 66 while most generic clones followed the order without question.
I always felt like Legends version was way more heartbreaking and cold compared to canon version because it just showed how brainwashed and disciplined as well as loyal to the “Republic” the clones really were
idk isn't it more tragic to be mind controlled into killing your friends
@@misteranthropy7082I think it depends on how you see it. Personally I think its way more tragic to be betrayed by a friend, instead of a friend that was mind controlled. The latter didnt really betray you and he might not even be aware of his actions.
What I like about legends, is that some of the clones have to deal with the choice they made. They werent mind controlled. Brainwashed, yes but they did have somewhat of a choice to disobey what they have been thaught. And a few clones did disobey.
I think thats way more compelling.
@@misteranthropy7082 statistically less clones were friends with Jedi, they were switching generals a lot, and not much of them did well as general either, resulting in big losses
@@mareklonestar7053 - Perhaps, from a certain point of view. Personally, I find it far more compelling to address the humanity of the clones in contrast to how the Kaminoans, and much of the Republic, treat them. The chip is not only perfectly plausible for an operation as advanced as Kamino’s, but demonstrates their utter lack of impunity toward the living beings they breed and sell. The Clone Wars and The Bad Batch, the former of which can be counted as part of Legends to a certain degree, pose questions of clones’ rights and citizenship postwar, as well as their quality of life given their rapid growth and shortened lifespan. These are important questions worthy of consideration within the Star Wars universe and its fan base.
The best part is that not all clones have to concern themselves with these questions. I have no problem imagining Alpha and Fives existing in the same plot line, with the former totally at peace with his purpose as a soldier and the latter going rogue to prove that he and his brothers are more than hardware. They are not mutually exclusive.
@@mareklonestar7053Almost all jedi thought that they were betrayed, only one jedi found out about the chips-Ahsoka
In my head I personally combine the two metas. I like to think the 151 orders did exist and were public knowledge, but the chips were insurance specifically for order 66. I do think the chips allow each clone to be more humanized and individual.
Same. I saw it as a failsafe for the Clones. In the event a Clone was not willing to go through with any of the 150 Contingency Orders, the chip would activate and force the Clones to go through with them.
Battlefront 2 Order 66 hit so hard. I get chills every time I hear the audio of the cutsceen. If you have never played it! You need to!
Although not completely flushed out in the movies, George did want the clones and Jedi to form bonds. It’s clear through obi-wan scenes with one of the only named clones who was given dialogue at the time Commander Cody. And with scenes like the opening space battle where Anakin wanted to break off in order to help his clone wingmen once he saw they were getting shot down by droid interceptors. The movie hinted at it but never flushed it out.
In The Clone Wars, George (not Dave btw, it was George’s story) was finally able to expand on the clones and Jedi’s bond they formed together during the war. So then the chips were a way to solidify Sidius’ control over his grand plan, since now that George was focusing on elaborating the relationship between Jedi and clones, it wouldn’t make sense that every single clone would respond to order 66 now that each and every clone has a unique relationship with their Jedi generals, some stronger than others. There needed to be a full proof way for Sidius’ plan to go off without any chance of failure. The inhibitor chips is that failsafe.
And it just makes more sense this way. Why would Sidius put his complete trust in clones of a bounty hunter even if they were genetically uttered to be more loyal as an army and as soldiers. They may be clones but they were still people with free thoughts and a free will. The chips are much more of a guarantee that no matter what may take place the clones will execute order 66 no matter what, and put an end to the jedi
I do not get people who think George had little to no influence in TCW. But this was also the thought process I held onto as well, that the Canon version of Order 66 makes way more sense from Palpatine's view. In Legends, many clones did not go through with the order, but in Canon it's only around 4 active soldiers who did not initially carry it out. Also, with the chips there is no way that the Jedi can sense any deception in the Clones, but to be fair, the Jedi were a bit arrogant at this time so I don't think it would have mattered anyways.
@Bubby021 Yea ikr, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But i watched a vid from @Hero_of_Sinnoh who did a good video about that topic called "the most misunderstood fact behind Starwars:The clone wars". He really did it justice.
And yes exactly i agree completely
@Bubby021 Yea, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But I recently watched a video from Hero of Sinnoh called "the most misunderstood fact about starwars the clone wars" and he really did the topic justice.
And yes Exactly i completely agree
@@Bubby021He had influence... Just not more than Filoni who constantly went behind George's back and made massive changes. Also while true the chips make sense from Palpatine's perspective, it makes for a less satisfying story overall, especially when the programming from the EU worked well enough while providing a fun amount of drama
In that case, why would Sideous use Clones at all? Why not use droids or even start using his new chips with prisoners to turn them into a slave army? He could even openly advertise the inhibiter chips as something to reform hardened criminals line the Terran Confederacy in Starcraft 1.
And it also ruins the OT as such a chip would certainly be even more handy on imperial citizens, never mind in the military. So most of the people who defect wouldn't and we would have a repeat of the Clone Wars, only with the Separatists without the massive droid armies and more reliant on people to fight.
As a kid, I got the junior novel of Revenge Of The Sith from a garage sale and I distinctly remember the order 66 part f*king me up cause of just how sadistic it was (I was 7ish at the time). How did they think that novel was suitable for children
There are two types of kids...
@@Official_Ardo Because kids like that sort of thing.
Gotta remember that there were Jason Vorhees and Robocop action figures for kids.
@@Lobsterwithinternet more like they are conditioned to like that sort of thing...
@@thepowerofsand6180 Conditioned by what? I remember plenty of kids who picked up a robocop toy because he looked cool and never watched the films.
Because 90% of kids read that and have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever.
It cant be real that i live in a time where my fellow people ask for even MORE insane age ratings for media than we already have.
The contingency plans and the inhibitor chip don't necessarily need to be exclusive. In the Traviss books, we learn that Palpatine is having Arcana Micro (Kamino's competitor) create clone troopers on Centex IV. They increased the growth acceleration time from 10 yrs to 1 yr. These troopers would be replacements that could have the inhibitor chips put in. The Kamino 1st generation clones could have learned the plans but not have the chips. The chips could have been added after Palpatine & his agents saw how close a relationship the Jedi & clones were creating.
Also, the Jedi were all too willing to accept clones. In the EU, Quinlan Voss and others never liked the clones and treated them as no more than subhuman meat droids. You needed more of that in TCW. Pong Krell, much as I hate him, really showed this well. There had to be other Jedi that treated the troopers as callously as these two.
(On a side note) I urge everyone to read all of Traviss's SW novels. They are very enjoyable, and the characters are so well developed. Also, she created the Mandalorian culture. TCW ruined it. You will learn to speak some Mando'a, ner vods.
Kandosii! Yeah Arkanian Micro and those Spaarti cylinders are wild, the troopers from those had such a weak mental stability though, due to the super short incubation period, flash trained while unconscious.
Oya!
vode*
Fucking love Traviss’ take on Mandalorians
Except TCW showed it was kamino clones specifically who had the chips in them. Don't think centax iv even exists in current canon.
As for Krell I'd agree if not for the fact he wanted or already had (can't remember exactly) become a traitor.
"The kid version of the novel is much more sadistic." Hey kids, skip to the part where Anakin slaughters Younglings X3
Nostalgia Critic: You know, for kids . . . XD
I mean the chips are obviously because clones like Rex became the viewers friends. I would say to great detriment of the plot. Order 66 on the venator would have been far more interesting with a mini civil war on saving or killing Ashoka.
I watched episode 3 in theaters for my birthday and from what I remember, the fact that the Jedi Order and Anakin was about to fall wasn’t a secret just from extra media but in my showing most people had seen the OG myself included. What we didn’t know was how the actual Order 66 was what we or I didn’t know but I knew SOMETHING was about to happen since again episode 4 but yeah
This is such a good video. I love the Legends' version of the prequels because of the difference between the characters are jarring when you see it yourself. The whole consideration of loyalty that Clones had was really cold and sad that they had feelings and thoughts on their inevitable betrayal.
I had a vague memory of reading the novelization before the movie was released. I can remember some kid at school was blabbing about how Anakin was burned with acid, and having read the novelization I got from the book fair, I proceeded to correct him with the facts. However, looking back, I thought I must be misremembering. No way they'd release the books spoiling the movie before it came out. This video just cleared my confusion up. Wild!
Finally, a video that actually fairly analyses all the different order 66 interpretations. Personally, I think both free will and inhibitor chips work for their respective timelines.
Legends was way more focused on foreshadowing the original trilogy, so the clones had a lot more stormtrooper-like qualities that made them more capable/willing to go through with the order. The added bonus of this were having clone characters who „broke away“ from their programming and chose to do their own thing leading to many character writing opportunities.
New cannon clones, however are all shown with a stronger focus on individuality and humanity. The chips were the perfect way of showcasing the tragedy of the clones by stripping them of said humanity, turning them from the jedi‘s greatest allies to the sword with which the sith slew them. This additionally tied into the plotline of the Empire treating them like nothing more than old tools.
The new way ruins a lot of film canon
0:41 YOUNGLINGS!!!!
It was a huge missed chance with krell to have one of the clones declare that its time to execute order 66
The big problem is that the clones were not originally intended to be characters. They were just faceless tools to keep the plot moving. Which, yeah, has a lot of weird and interesting meta implications.
I personally strongly dislike The Chips, mainly because I hate the "Evil Switch" as a writing crutch (it's extremely cheap and lazy), but also because they have such an overpowered effect that it makes no sense that they're _only_ used on the clones. Palpatine should be using these _everywhere._ In the end, it's just a way out from the multi-way collision of several authors all separately writing towards the same point. I can't really begrudge them that, but it does feel bad they didn't get the chance to come up with a more coherent answer.
"If droids could think, there would be none of us here would there?"
Obi Wan just happens to stumble on a clone army 10 mins later. Lucas couldn't have been much more explicit about the role the clones were supposed to play.
how would you have done it?
@@pumpmyanxiety4447Can't speak for the other guy but the EU already had this handled. Everyone in the GAR, including the Jedi knew about Order 66 but never believed it would be used because the Jedi would never betray the Republic. The Clones were all pre-programed with loyalty to the Republic with levels of free will being dictated by rank and unit. So while say Scorch for example could refuse to execute the order, your average Clone would not because of their loyalty. This way the Clones still obey but it's not just an "evil switch" as OP called them
@@connorharnage6697Granted, those clones were specially bred clones like Nulls or Clone Commandos while the rank-and-file clones were much more like droids in thinking.
My favorite example is from the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ where a group of clone commandos assigned with a jedi refused to follow Order 66, thinking it was a Separatist trick, while the regular clones followed it blindly to the point they were willing to use human wave tactics against the commandos to get at the Jedi.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Yup sounds about right. If I remember correctly, there was a high defection rate in the Clone Commandos after Order 66
Don’t understand why the inhibitor chip changes there being 150 orders
I like to think that the inhibitor chips activated a hyper focus mode for the clones instead. Therefore the other contingency orders could exist, but when one was ordered, the clones’ inhibitor chips would force them to carry out said order
I thought the inhibitor chips make perfect sense: Order 66 only worked because the Jedi were taken by complete suprise, and had the clones been simply ordered to do it, the Jedi would have sensed their hostile intent.
Not necessarily. That would only hold up if the clones had any malice behind the order. However as things like the ROTS novel pointed out, they didn't. So the Jedi had little they could detect at that point.
They’d sense the activation of the chips, so no it being an order that they followed is no different in intent than any other order they obeyed when fighting for the Republic.
The inhibitor chips were created for a bad retconned “reason” and they are STILL trying to force that narrative with the idea that the chips malfunctioning in some clones or causing them to become depressed, instantly.
Ok but the jedi are outnumbered 10 to 1 by clones so even if they did sense it would be too little too late. Not every jedi was obi wan or yoda
Also, why leave the genocide of the Jedi to chance ? Better safe than sorry, install an chip that make them do it even if they would comply happily
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009I think the issue is that the existence of a mind control chip that is mass produceable and functional raises a ton of problems. Firstly, if the empire had such a technology, they could use it to enslave entire planets and destroy rebellions, so why does it never come up again? Secondly, using it for order 66 and suggesting some clones would’ve otherwise resisted the order means that the chip would have to be constantly on in clones who would otherwise rebel/dissent from imperial rule.
While it might make sense in this instance, I think the existence of such a powerful technology problematizes other aspects of star wars more broadly
"I hesitated for a moment when I received Order 66 because the last thing I expected was a Jedi coup. Did I feel betrayed? You bet I did. I thought of all my men who died under Ki-Adi-Mundi's command, and if I'd known then that he and his buddies were gearing up to do the Separatists' work for them and overthrow the government, I'd have shot him as a traitor a lot earlier. He betrayed the trust of every one of us." - Commander Bacara
In the og george lucas canon the clones were seen as simple instruments by most if not all jedi, which naturally made the clones secretly despise them. This is why so many did not even hesitate to shoot. The only case where compassion is shown is in Ayla Secura's death, as she was said to be one of the few jedi who cared for her troopers. As such, commander Bly and his men gunned her down in an instant so that she does not feel any pain. ''It is a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us would dare to look her in the eye''.
I personally prefer the giant list of publicly known contingencies that were all drilled into them so deeply as to be executed more like an instinct than with conscious thought. It just feels the most realistic. Sure, enough many clones might feel conflicted due to the bonds they'd formed with the Jedi, but conversely, after having fought alongside them for so long, the clones would also know just how deadly the Jedi could be and that if they really had turned traitor against the Republic any hesitation to take them out could be disastrous. They might regret it afterwords, but in the moment the need for swift decisive action lest all their fellow clones get slaughtered would be paramount.
The chip just feels like a cheap copout by comparison.
Yep. I honestly think tcw could’ve still worked chipless, but the damage done even before that was way too much
Personally, to make both work, the chip activates on any of the 150 orders being given, but order 66 can activate extra hard if there’s a certain change in the mental state of the clones. All the clones that maintained a more regimented mindset such as they received as they were trained (which training did include preparation for order 66, they definitely knew that it was coming) then for those clones it would be a less severe form of activation of the chip
@@michaelyoung7261 Except none of that is indicated in the films and you just made it up.
Not to mention the existence of the chips makes the events of the OT impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet that’s why he said personally.
@@Anzyn Not when you're stating it like it is a fact.
Would be better if he phrased it like ‘I think..’ or ‘I would have liked it if…’. Something that sounds less like you actually think it’s true.
@@Lobsterwithinternet How exactly does it make the OT impossible
@@Lobsterwithinternetuh… how do the chips contradict the OT?
The Clone Wars took what was a morally grey moment where you didn't know if you should be mad or feel sympathy for the Clones. To this moment where both the Jedi and the Clones were the victims. The final season of the Clone Wars is so hard to watch. The scene where Rex is straight up crying because he knows what is going to happen to his brothers gets me every time. Knowing that whether they have to kill them or just abandon them in the crashing ship that no matter what happens they're all going to die hurts on so many levels. Or moments like in Fallen Order seeing Cal and the Clones have this fun playful banter back and forth just minutes before the order is given making Cal so scared, confused and reluctant to harm what he sees as his friends.
I am in the camp that prefers the original Clone Wars Multimedia Project. The Prequel stories came out in real time, and this was marvelously done with the CWMMP, through a shared continuity across video games, comics, novels, and the 2003 Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars TV show. Their continuity tied in with both former and future media as well, such as the Tales of the Jedi comics (the backstory for Knights of the Old Republic), and even stories which tied into Luke and other OT characters. Battlefront, Bounty Hunter, Republic Commando, Revenge of the Sith, and other video games were all a part of this, along with novels like Shatterpoint, or the comic stories of Jabiim and Defense of Kamino.
The portrayal of the clones was more consistent with what we see in the movies, and personally I think the inhibitor chips were a huge copout just because they didn't want them to be the bad guys, when the whole point of the clones was that they were a tool contrived by the Sith to undermine the Jedi, which was only able to happen because of how intertwined in the Republic the Jedi had become. Had the Jedi not allowed their attachment to the Republic, they wouldn't have been spread out and trapped. Battlefront is the main piece of media that suggests that at least some of the clones knew what was going to happen. This may have been a creative liberty, but initially Order 66 was just a contingency order, and the Jedi misplaced their trust in the Republic. The clones were loyal to the Republic, not the Jedi, and ultimately Palpatine. I think the inhibitor chips are an even weaker writing point considering that the writers were then put into a corner, since they even went so far as to show the chips had erased some clone personalities in The Bad Batch, but all of a sudden the clones start leaving the Empire out of loyalty to the Republic, even though both are the same. It also makes Palpatine look incompetent by immediately getting rid of the clones for "expenses" when the Empire controls all galactic resources.
The clones were also always willing to commit war crimes as they were essentially amoral. It was the Jedi who kept them in line, and once they were gone, the clones continued to fulfill their jobs as "perfect soldiers", which is stated in Attack of the Clones, that they were genetically modified to obey orders. The exception were ARC Troopers and Republic Commandos, to an extent. The inhibitor chips take away the nuance and complexity that the clones had, and totally defeat the purpose of a 7 season show that's about establishing the clones as individuals, when for the sole purpose of their creation, they are basically absent from it.
Honestly the focus on the clones has become overbearing, and should have remained on the Jedi, with the clones in support roles. The Bad Batch is a perfect example; they're a more generic version of Delta Squad from Republic Commando, and a show set in the aftermath of Order 66 shouldn't be about the clones, it should be about Jedi being hunted down and trying to survive. That's exceptionally more interesting, and most of the older material did just that. The Dark Times and Purge comics, along with several novels, follow Vader hunting down various Jedi, along with those and other Jedi coming to terms with the downfall of the Order and the Republic. Just adapting those stories would have been better than certain people waning to make their mark on things, effectively watering down what made Star Wars appealing in the first place.
This video was nailing every single point... right until the end.
No, you DON'T need to take the Clones' free will away. The entire point of them having that free will, and still choosing to follow the orders- except for the swath of examples of Clones who disobeyed, many of which weren't even brought up in this video- was to show the power of indoctrination. It was a parallel- like so many other aspects in Star Wars- to Nazi Germany in WWII. The Clones were 'just following orders'.
They didn't get time to think about whether or not it was right to kill the Jedi. They were trained to do it if ordered, and for most Clones, they were in some sort of active battlefield, and through the power of their indoctrination, simply followed the order when it was given.
That was the entire point, and the fact that more content got to flesh out some of the Clones as likeable should have been- and for a while was being- used to double down on making that point. It makes it even more tragic a tale to tell, and would have kept people coming back for more. That was the point.
Then these stupid inhibiter chips flushed that all down the toilet.
I like the idea of more indepndent clones choosing to disobey order 66 (or just question a bit in general like Cut or Slick) but at the same time the friendship that is formed in the CW makes it feel like most clones would disobey if there wasn't something overriding their loyalty...
its sad to see their autonomy stripped away, but it feels like both can't exist at the same time...
@@Marrianne415 The only difference is that the chips introduce a technology that would fundamentally change the Star Wars galaxy and make the OT as we know it impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet And the clones and droids in the original prequel canon don't?
Like you're telling me that you could have an army of millions of mass produced soldiers, bred for combat effectiveness and loyalty, and Sidious doesn't fucking use them after the clone wars?
Same garbage with the battle droids. Even the standard b1's being shown to be decently effective fighters throughout the prequels, yet they entirely disappeared. Droideka's had portable energy shields while also having the power to still use have heavy fire power. Yet despite having the shield technology capable of shielding the entire second death star, they never think to use those shields for in ground combat.
I could go on, because so much of the empire's military, with the a few exceptions, is a strict downgrade from the republic and separatists. It was like that when the prequels released, and in a lot of ways it still is.
The prequels committed the original sin by introducing all this technology that was far more advanced than the OT. This franchise has pretty much always had this issue of continually retconning itself in this way. At this point, you need to just roll with it.
@@angrypepe7615 don’t forget the fact that the at-te got scrapped, the arc-170 was replaced with a flimsy fighter with no shields, and capital ships evolved backwards from the venator(which was essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an aircraft carrier) to the ISD, which has a far smaller hangar and is designed for capital ship-capital ship combat, and is so ridiculously vulnerable to starfighter bombing runs (looking at the 2 golf balls shield generators sticking out the top of the bridge )
@@largiegorgle If you think about it logically tho, they are trying to police the entire galaxy. Id imagine spending the resources on better technology was seen as useless given the scale. Not to mention the Empire was corrupt and between the funding of both death stars and other people skimming money off the top, the Empire didn't really have the money to have this better tech. You also want to create divide amongst people. People pro empire vs anti empire. You are not gonna get that when you police everyone with a droid. Because at that point, the only pro-empire personnel you have are droids and leadership lol
@@Lobsterwithinternet the tech that only works if someone is born with it and was destroyed with the kaminoans ? An event that happens in both legends and canon ?
The film's explanation for the Jedi not being able to sense the clones thoughts was that it was Palpatine's shroud of the dark side that diminished the Jedi's thoughts. You think the Jedi would sense the clones thoughts. Having the chips made it so they couldn't sense those betraying thoughts and were then caught by surprise.
I always interpreted it quite simply:
The clones were taught/ trained/ programmed order 66 as a possibility, not a certainty. They were taught that should the jedi ever need to be taken down, an order was ready to do so.
I dont think most of them knew it would happen, but only considered it a possibility.
Hence why some clones became friends with jedi, they probably thought order 66 was extremely unlikely to happen so they grew close to them its also why I thought some clones didn't execute the order, as they knew the jedi too well and refused to act on it.
I think I agree. In a vacuum I like the idea of it being hidden in plain site among 150 contingency orders. And most clones being obedient enough to follow through while some few refused and deserted. But the Clone Wars show doesn't really work with that because of how much it fleshed out the clones and and their bonds with the Jedi.
Good video, Michael. :)
I think I am not so much opposed to the version including the chip but to the breaking of continuity that took place with the Clone Wars series. Separately both versions are fine and provide some really good moments to us. I was really hit by the coverup that costs Fives his life and also am remembering the scene when Rex forces himself to give one last piece of information to Ahsoka, before shooting at her as a moment I was deeply touched. Similarly I felt much awe when I read the Vader novel and followed the few clones rejecting their orders. I find the idea of people being created so fiercely loyal and obedient to a certain thing that almost nothing can stop them from following their orders, even if they have to shoot their comrades for it, quite fascinating.
It's a lot easier to deal with Order 66 when you treat everything after Return of the Jedi as expensive fan fiction
Damn dude. Great discussion of the topic
I like both the inhibitor chips and the other explanation.
Clones were meant to be mirrors to droids in legends, and palpatine tested droids going rouge and having specific orders as a way to test order 66
Not just Legends, Episode 2 makes a lot of shots that mirrors them, showing the moral equivalency of both sides.
Yup. The problem all started when the CGI Clone Wars cartoon decided to give them personalities.
I can still remember going to school early so I could use the library’s internet connected computer and read Episode 3’s script. And it was literally the script, like months before release. It was so cool.
I feel so old now.
Addendum: I feel “spoiler culture” is a relatively new thing. Some might blame JJ Abrams and his mystery boxes. My cynical take is spoilers gaining taboo status was engineered by movie studios to ensure they wouldn’t lose ticket sales from people hearing the plot sucked before they paid to find out for themselves
Eh, I think it's fun to enjoy a movie or story or something if you don't already know what happens. But then again it's also fun to rewatch something you like.
Or... Some people don't like their entertainment experience ruined. The same goes for video games.
I've always liked the idea of all the contingency plans still existing. But the chips being a secret to insure order 66 worked
At least in my head there are no chips or such nonsense. The clones decided to follow order 66 because they were trained to do so just as they would have followed any other of the 150 contingency orders.
Another thing to mention is that many clones were able to somewhat resist order 66 because of their strong feeling towards the Jedi, for example, when captain Rex was able to hesitate to shoot Ahsoka.
I prefer the old timeline because we saw clones disobey, and, also in the Karen Traviss books, we know that most jedi didn't get close to their troops. at most, you'd see them get close to the Clone Commanders, at their side, but not the rank and file troopers. of course there were also several examples of jedi getting close to all their troops, and you even mentioned the romance between Etain and Darman. As such, it was easier to see clones willingly execute a contingency order.
It being an order, that the clones thought was public knowledge to the jedi, (it's been a while since I read the series, but I feel like I half remember a throw away line when certain characters end up at Kyrimorut) I'm fairly certain it was later revealed that the jedi weren't able to see all the contingency orders, or maybe I'm misremembering it being that the jedi that could, were kept too busy to do so.
However, I'm also a huge fan of The Clone Wars tv show, Rebels, The Bad Batch, and The Mandalorian. Most of which wouldn't work without the inhibitor chips. I feel disney accidentally wrote themselves into a corner with how close they made the the Jedi and the Clones. Had they primarily kept an emotional distance between the 2 groups, you could still have the few clones we got to know maybe disobey, but with so many clones revering their jedi generals, you essentially did need to brainwash the clones to not have mass dereliction of orders.
I think I like the 150 orders and always following orders better than the inhibitors chip, but the inhibitors chip was pretty good too
As for how the clones were able to take out the Jedi so easily, it helped greatly that the genetic template for the clones was a Mandalorian. Warriors who specialized in fighting Jedi.
Commenting before finishing the video because i wanted to share my unchanged opinion
I really like the head chips influencing the clones. Yes, it takes away palpatine's influence over the governing orders of the republic during the war
But, what this detail gave us was some of the most heart wrenching scenes from the clone wars and other media. Like Rex crying because he had to betray his brothers to save ahsoka at the end of clone wars, or the jedi having absolute trust in them
Its way more believable that the clones were forced to obey over just being told to do it. Especially since the jedi can read minds, they would've picked up on that plan super quickly.
I dunno, I like this retcon. It makes the overall narrative of the prequel era and the clones so much better to me
2:02 WHAT NO WAY, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!!!!
The pinnacle moment for me (which 'The Clone Wars' animated added into the Order 66 canon) was the final moment between Ahsoka and Rex, as he walks off to take a communication, and you know what's coming. Taking into account the conversation they were having moments earlier, it makes the rest of that episode absolutely heartbreaking to endure.
The animation fleshed out Order 66 for the better; taking an already tragic moment, into something deeply emotional and heartbreaking.
The clones were taught about Order 66 and the other commands on Kamino before they were discovered by the Jedi.
Clonewars clones would take one look at each other when order 66 is ordered out of nowhere and go like:
"ok someone hacked our comms"
"thats what _I_ was about to say"
"PEOPLE KEEP CHANGING ORDER 66!"
*Filoni keeps changing Order 66*
Plenty of explanation of how Order 66 worked in Ep. II with the clones' introduction.
that where you are wrong kiddo...filoni keeps trying to order 66 the entire OG fandom.
@@satakrionkryptomortis I like your attitude.
@@satakrionkryptomortisTrying? I'd dare say he succeeded. Well succeeded as much as the current version of Order 66 has succeeded
I'm glad you brought up the Republic Commando novels. That series is my favorite Star Wars book series. Definitely wish that 6th and final book was made, but what we got in the 5 and the gameare perfection
The original order 66 being that every clone follows the order willingly is always going to be my favorite as them needing a mund control chip makes the "obedient army" thing entirely pointless
It really doesn’t, it basically just makes them physically incapable of disobeying extreme orders when legends had way more examples of clones disobeying order 66
I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters when I was 11. I guess I’m the only kid that wasn’t shocked by Order 66 or needed an explanation. I saw it as soldiers following orders. They didn’t work for the Jedi, they were Republic units.
anyone who says the "just following orders" doesnt work has never opened a history book
“GOTTA SHUT DOWN THE BAKING SYSTEM HANG ON!” 🤣
I liked the original reasoning for Order 66. Gives more agency to clones, is more realistic, brutal, and gives commentary on what it means to be a soldier/active agent in democracy
I like your take on this. Good video.
I prefer the timeline without the inhibiter chip. I like the idea of the clones being programmed to do so like a sleeper agent, being shocked in remembering what the orders entail, and having to decide whether to follow them or not. I like the idea of them questioning the orders, with some of them feeling betrayed by the Judi they were about to kill because... Why were they ordered to kill them? How did this person I trust suddenly become a traitor that the Chancellor wanted dead? I like the emotions of anger the clones had towards the Jedi for being traitors, causing them to act rashly and kill them, following orders. I like the emotions of the clones who realize that the real traitor was the one issuing the orders, and they refused to follow them.
I'm not a fan of the chips because they get rid of the clones' decisions. It also gets rid of potential story plots that can be symbolic of real-life soldiers' decisions, where they had justified the atrocious things they had done as simply following orders. The moral quandry disappears because the clones are just straight-up innocent with the chips.
I would like to point out that there were over a hundred of these contingency orders. For all sorts of different scenarios. They were kept "secret" to an extent, but there was a plan in place to explain it all if the Jedi ever discovered them.
Order 66 was just one amongst dozens upon dozens of different orders that could be given. There was even one that would have the clones immediately arrest the supreme chancellor. Palpatines plan was that if the jedi ever asked questions he would just point out that order and use it to convince them that these contingencies were nothing more than last resort plans for worst case scenarios.
21:48 I'd still love to see Karen Travis finish the series with the legends label
Dude I love her and her work on the Gears of War books!
10/10 plug made me subscribe
I prefer the Legends version. We’ve seen time and time again in real life how people who were once close can quickly turn on each other. And those who, even if they disagree with the order, will still follow through.
Case in point, Nazi Germany. It’s well documented that many of the citizens did not agree with what was going on, soldiers as well. Yet they went through with it regardless. In Star Wars it was through undying loyalty trained into the clones, in real life it was so they didn’t get killed themselves.
It also allows for the Clones to regret their actions on a more personal level. They weren’t forced to kill the Jedi, they chose to. The betrayal cuts even deeper, and it also means those who watched the Empire grow and turn into something they hated would feel even more remorse.
While I do like the Inhibitor chips, they remove a lot of agency from the Clones.
Agreed.
I think the inhibitor chips (or the idea of them) were cooler than the clones just obeying without question on their own
I like that the clone wars gave the clones personalities and individuallity, without an external factor a large portion if not a majority would choose to not execute it or AT LEAST hesitate before killing their best friend.
The fact that the clones' hard earned free will was ripped away from them is narratively amazing and heartbreaking.
Although i think the physical inhibitor chip was a little too on the nose. I would have prefered that they were like sleeper agents and when specifically Order 66 was given their subconscious conditioning would kick in winter soldier style.
I understand what you mean and while I don’t personally agree with your preference, I understand your reasoning.
if only the newer tv shows and movies cared this much about the lore. and making everything make since.
I think it makes more sense for Cody to have a friendship with Obi-Wan since, under his leadership, the 212th had the least casualties.
Order Sixty six is one of the saddest moments in Star Wars. A whole culture that had been surviving for thousands of years wiped out in 1 day (the newest movies aren’t canon) so many died and that was the moment that would cause pain and suffering not just then but for decades afterwords
The nightmares.. are finally over
For the longest time I hated the inhibitor-chip-zombie-good-soldiers-follow-orders angle, it removed the betrayal aspect from this Space Opera...However, there are some creative fan videos on YT suggesting the Clone's perspective during Order 66 and they actually made me appreciate the now Canonical excuse.
Loacher Films implied the inhibitor caused the Clones to mis-member how the Jedi were and made them villinous.
Dudu Films also managed to show how Legends & Canon can go hand in hand, including how they handled Order 66
Both are Worth a watch!
I too liked the idea of that, and remember that particular video.
Anakin actually said that Tup was missing before the Ringovinda campaign. Plus....Tup was the one who stunned Krell too....
I personally really enjoy the pre-chip lore.
I think it adds a lot more depth to the event with the clones each having to make that choice.
I think it also adds a lot more interesting lore and stories for the few clones that resisted that order and the moral conflict it brings.
I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to believe that a clone army, based around a Jedi Killer and bred and trained for absolute loyalty to the command structure, would carry out the order especially when that was the plan behind their entire creation.
I think it’s a bit over the top that every clone knew before hand so I personally like it being a surprise for the Jedi and the clones.
Beyond that, the chip literally just turns them into mindless droids which is incredibly dull comparatively.
Man I feel old now. I remember watching Revenge of the Sith when I was five in the theater. It was my first experience of a Star Wars movie on the big screen.
The idea that the clones had inhibitor chips was always there George always wanted the clones and Jedi to have close ties which can seen in the scenes with Cody in ep 3 and in the 2D clone wars show which was released in between ep 2 and 3 and the 3D clone wars show was able to expand on the Jedi and clone relationship and the inhibitor chips since most of the major storylines were George’s ideas and he worked with the show’s team to fully develop the scripts and storyboards. George was very involved in the clone wars shows he was consulted on all storylines and changed things that didn’t line up with his vision and came up with many storylines for the shows.
Then explain Mortis and the Force Gods which contradict George’s explanation of the Force and Balance?
@@Lobsterwithinternet but we aren't talking about the Mortis thing that is mostly forgotten, are we ? We are talking about the clones and order 66
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 And my comment was regarding his claim that everything in the show had George’s emphatic approval.
@@Lobsterwithinternet the force was something that Lucas never could decide on what it was
But the clones he absolutely could
He even ordered an show that he paid with his own money to show clones being the complete opposite from the EU
It was called The Clone Wars
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 George was always straightforward about what the Force was and what the dark and light sides as well as balance meant. The Light was Balance while the Dark side was a corruption of that balance. No Force Gods. No balance between light and dark. It's that simple.
Except that it also contradicts the films. If he wanted to retcon the films, why is TCW T-Canon rather than G-Canon?
Honestly the chips only make sense for those like Plo or Obi Wan, but their had been jedi who are more like Krell or just terrible commanders in general that clones would execute without any problem at all if ordered. But all you still have a few clones who did actually disobey the order.
I kinda don't mind when there wasn't any chip, for like the 501st, when they marched to the temple, they have no attachment to any Jedi besides Anakin, and maybe few others like Obi Wan. But for most part they don't mind killing
idk why people are so pissed about the genetic chips, I thought that was the more deep dive explanation for the line "they are bred to follow any order"
it was never said "trained to follow any order" they specifically said bred, genetically tailored to be totally loyal
only reason people got this idea was because battlefront 2's campaign was so beloved by a whole generation. It's very good but honestly the clone wars writing just makes more sense and better written then a random one off game
also explains why clones weren't around anymore in the empire
Also doesn't make sense if the clones knew they were gonna betray the Jedi and harbored this hatred and indoctrination the Jedi would have sensed that, it's apart their basic abilities to sense those things even in their weakened stripped down state they were in as an order
The line is: "They are totally obedient, taking any order without question." There is nothing here that can suggest they have a chip in their skulls.
Look up child soldiers.
A clone is of the same age.
If they arecbred to be obedient, hiding the cancer chip won't be necessary.
Plus, it was a easy plot clutch for writers to just make clones evil instead of the complex of the clones being indoctrinate to follow orders while clones being of Jango Fett who hate jedi.
The Jedi Council sat in the same room as the dark lord of the Sith for over a decade without noticing...and you think they were going to just notice the big betrayal plan...by said Sith...while fighting spread out across the galaxy. Yeah, no. There's a reason only Yoda reacted in time.
@@TheKiltedGermanBecause he was in the Original Trilogy.
11:03 that is terrific
I like the EU/old version better, the chip thing was completely unneeded. The Order 66 thing was clearly based on history(realize that Lucas drew a lot from both history and mythology and other things for SW), an example when Constantius the 2nd decided to purge the Roman Imperial Family, which many were within the Roman military and so....those who supported Constantius...killed them.
Or one could look at it as the purge of the Knights Templar, where their Order was pretty much wiped out by King Philip.
So on and so forth.
The chip thing...was completely unnecessary.
I don’t think it was about, but Palpatine isn’t stupid. He known that certain clones would end up with better Jedis than others.
Honestly, I don’t believe any clone’s loyalty would side with Sidious over a Jedi like Aayla Secura for example.
Like, sure, some would probably side with him, but is it really that believable that Sidious wouldn’t put in a failsafe to make sure EVERY Jedi actually die?
@BarneyisJehova Attack of the Clones literally set up Order 66 by having the leader of Kaminoans say that "The clones have been genetically modified to be more obedient". Clone commanders, Arc Troopers, and Clone Commandos were not as heavily modified for obedience as standard Clone Troopers giving them more independence and free will.
@@26th_Primarch What clone is stupid enough to side with the corrupt politician that started a proxy war to make his brothers and friends die in mass, over the Jedi, who constantly fought with them?
@@BarneyisJehova because the clones were basically intended to be organic parallels to the Separatists droid army.
@@BarneyisJehova by how Star Wars canon is actually tiered Filoni's Clone Wars literally aren't canon because the inhibitor chips actually violate the canon established in the prequel films.
I kinda like new explanation with chips
I think it’s ridiculous to have the “need” for the chip. It’s so stupid. The whole point of the clones were to be perfect soldiers. Perfect soldiers obey orders. Love it or hate it, perfect soldiers will obey orders as commanded. To me that’s what made order 66 so impactful was the fact that even if some of them didn’t want to, it’s not their job to reason why, it’s only their job to do or die.
One version is realistic and written by adults,
The other is from a kids show where character development is a joke punchline.
"the clones knew they would soon turn on the jedi"
Only in the half-cocked, rushed og battlefront 2 campaign. Its totally absurd that the clones were actively aware and planning to kill their generals, and that contradicts the rest of the EU
I always understood it that the Clones had a subconscious message that was triggered by telling them to execute Order 66. When I watched Episode 3 back in 2005, it never felt like the clones would betray the Jedi.
@@beyondlimitationsvideo Honestly this does make sense, as Fives(?) literally says as he's dying about how the nightmares and "the mission" is finally over, seemingly with all the other Clones implicitly understanding what this mission was even if they didn't openly state it.
To me it was always that the clones saw the Jedi as gods. The. They began to notice tactical faults in their gods. Same goes for the Secura stuff. They weren’t ashamed they knew about order 66. They had been misleading the Jedi. That’s what they were ashamed of. It was pretty clear on Mygeeto that they were ordered to mislead Mundi.
In the old canon it was a cat and mouse game between Order 65 and 66.
Palp was a huge gambler in anything.
This is another case of the intresting and good ideas of the prequels that were sometimes not so well executed being executed better (or fixed) in other SW media
Drinking game: one shot of whiskey every time he says “order”
The Inhibitor Chips were such a stupid concept and Dave Filoni is such a hack writer.
Order 66 went -so- much harder when the clones carried out Order 66 on their own full volition.
in the old EU, the Jedi were just such awful generals that got so many clones killed that by the time of Order 66 the surviving clones were frothing at the mouth to kill some Jedi in the same way soldiers would mutiny against corrupt officers.
Honestly, I call bullshit on "The Jedi being terrible" was the reason for the justification of Order 66. Like, Palpatine was INSANELY corrupt. Literally, why would any Clone side with him?
And barely any Jedi were explicitly said to be terrible leaders. For example: Aayla Secura. I don’t remember any clone or material talking about the Jedi being terrible leaders.
@@BarneyisJehova People proudly fought for Hitler. Rethink the logic of your question.
@@TheKiltedGerman Do you really think that if the choice was between 1943 Hitler and someone like Lincoln, that Hitler would still be as popular? No, ofcourse not.
@@BarneyisJehova You clearly haven't read anywhere enough history.
Also, Lincoln wasn't on the ballot.
Also, the clones had zero participation in politics.
@@BarneyisJehova Again. You're wrong
Personally, I really prefer the chip reason rather than simply the clones following orders. It was reported that some clones refused to obey in the old cannon, but you would’ve thought it would be a higher percentage than that. This way it could be so seamless with the chip implanted, which let’s face it is something Palpatine would have wanted to do anyway.
It’s reasoned now that the real reason why Tups Chip malfunctioned was because he had already carried out or 66 technically when he executed Pon krell. Because the chip had not been activated, but he had already done the order, it created a sort of feedback loop.
Tup didn’t kill Krell. Also it wouldn’t make sense for a higher percentage to disobey the order as there was almost a perfect set of conditions that would have to be met that would make disobeying the order even much of a considerable option for the clones.
@ that’s just it, clones fighting for 3 to 4 years under these Jedi generals would have gained a deep royalty to them. They were bred not to have any opinions but to follow orders but let’s be honest that’s not possible, if you want to have organic living troops and they will learn and gain opinions for themselves. A seamless execution like in Star Wars revenge of the Sith, was almost too perfect for an organic army.
A control chip actually made it far more elegant and realistic.
In episode 2 the kaminoians say that they changed the clones genetics to make them follow any order without question, there was never any need to change anything because they're not normal people. That's the whole tragedy, because they follow any order without question, when they got order 66 they thought it was the right thing because their brains had been changed to be literally unable to question orders. In the original canon I guess they werent forced to do it so much as they just didn't question if it was right or wrong. The whole inhibitor chip thing is so stupid and takes away a lot of the tragedy to me, as well as the decisions to turn all of our favourite clone characters against the empire eventually - it feels like the writers are just so unable to make their characters be the bad guys.
@@hollohullu9448 Filoni is unable to give up his previous OCs.
He literally created time travel/dimension-hopping just to save Ahsoka from dying.
@@Lobsterwithinternet You're right. I don't dislike Filoni as much as lots of people do but he loves a happy ending too much, always tries to soften any blow.
@@hollohullu9448"he loves happy ending too much" about a guy who gave us 2 animated series with tragic endings
i like the idea of there being a ton of orders, and i do think that since there is at least 66, that's probably still the case. i think the chip is probably just to change their view on the Jedi, and kind of reboot their brain in that area so they get mind controlled. it is kind of crazy thinking about they are just quietly waiting for their time to strike, but i enjoy the clones in the show so much that I'm glad they do it without a choice vs turning on their family
36:36 The main reason Wrecker’s activated was because it was already supposed to but his modifications slowed the process down, Tup was literally one in a million
What hurts the most is not the fact that the clones turned on the Jedis but Anakin turning on the light side.