[32:14] I've never laughed so much. Andy managed to create a new anti-hate language. It's impossible to hate his opinions with his sense of humor and excellent explanations. If all TH-camrs learned to communicate like Andy, there would be no more haters on the internet. You can express your opinion without hurting anyone, I really love this channel.
Its his opinion of the drummers he has heard , Nightwish drummer that got insomniac and cant tour Jukka "Animal" Nevalainen , good drummer , replacement drummer Kai Hahto has played drums since he was 3, teaches drumming and its ergonomics, learner one famous band set in less that a day , he got call when their original drummer had accident , he wrote the band set drum sections to note form , as he put it lot of people can drum, but cant read drum notes . Thats also why his work is easy to play if you can read notes, he did drum part to WinterSun, Sons of Winter and Stars, Jari Mäenpää did all the rest .
@@desistindo1 Nah mate . Andy’s just a bitter whiny Pom who’s got us sucked in to his click bate rubbish . I hate this guy more than he hates ., and this is very very sad for me .
That's an overrated skill and has become the default position for every musician. I can't think of any musician who doesn't fit the song on which they play... honestly. I feel like it's the equivalent of a participation award in music.
Ginger was one of the few and first drummers with the bravery to share a bandstand with top jazz drummers. Mitchell copied Baker post-Hendrix, recorded, but what widely known. (He was tremendous with Keith Emerson, btw.)
@@Matt__BWhat you think about what I do is pretty irrelevant to the conversation, don't you think? The first skill I ever heard my drummer friends develop was keeping time; the second was playing to the song. It's a basic skill, used by critics to elevate competent drummers to stars. Sorry for prolonging this...I think we got into this before with someone and I don't want to prolong anyone's agony over this. Let's just say we disagree.
Mark King once said of himself “I’m not the greatest bass player but I am a popular bass player” (if I remember right), which shows a refreshing degree of self-awareness
That's just another that has his own greatest list. It means he's really a fan of someone else before him. I call it honesty. Everyone has their own list, true fans will never be that great. Those are the lists to take note of. They're straight up honest. My first time here with Mr. Edwards, this is honest. Making it a list I stuck around for.
I am glad Stewart Copeland didn't make your list. He's my favourite drummer. So creative. And, in turn, Copeland's favourite drummer Mitch Mitchell was also correctly absent from your list.
@@ruffryder13 Nah, come on. His work on those Hendrix albums was brilliant and very influential. He's very respected among lots of drummers. Though I can admit he didn't do anyhing of note outside of the Hendrix stuff. From what I hear he had a quite severe alcohol problem.
@@linuswang6572 He was occasionally good playing behind one of the best if not the best guitarist of all time. I've found that the *only* people that are into him are drummers, and they seem to ultimately enjoy him only because he played on a couple of great albums that were 99% Hendrix. They seem to be unable to imagine what is clearly true which is that 1000 other drummers would have also occasionally sounded good behind Hendrix.
@@ruffryder13 Maybe...But to me Mitchell FIT Hendrix exactly right style wise, and kept the feel very open. Whereas to me, even most really great drummers would have made the feel too tight. I don't know if Mitchells playing style would have worked well with anyone else to tell you the truth...down at a corner jazz bar probably.
@@wotireckonPalmer is one of if not the greatest drummer in the world. Any of you doubters should have seen him play from 1970 to 1975😮 just because your boyfriend don't like him😅
@@dugganclhallrentals2089 he’s talented af and has ton of chops. Solid innovative and creative. Solos are outstanding but….never heard the guy play a funky syncopated groove. Could he play a song with tons of space between notes and relax? Maybe? Good drummers know often times it’s what you DON’T play for the music that makes it cool.
I'll admit that as a lifelong RUSH fan seeing Neil's name at the top of your list hurt a little bit. But after hearing you out I think you're spot on. Neil was the perfect drummer for RUSH and that's what he wanted to do musically. He freely admitted that he was out of his depth with the Burnin' for Buddy thing. He struggled and was ultimately unhappy with his result. I think one of the things that made Neil so great was his humility, I don't think he let the accolades go to his head and he kept learning and trying to get better. There's no way Neil would have ever put himself at the top of any great drummer list. I also think you're spot on about John Bonham and Ian Pace.
@@Meteotrancenow achieving the HFT intro drummers can do but the original on the 1984 album was done with Roland drums in the beginning. You can tell when the real drums come in by the sound of the snare,cymbals. I knew that from the first listen,not saying Alex wasn’t a good drummer quite the opposite,he is way underrated.
@@jamieflowers1493 You really must have been born last week to think that about Ian Paice because Deep Purple were constantly all over the UK rock press in the 70's. As was also his tenure in PAL, Whitesnake and Gary Moore Band and again with Purple's reformation. You could not fail to have known his name. And any major dude bona fide rock drummer will tell you that he very much is a top drummer.
@@apollomemories7399 Keep in mind....Deep Purple were MUCH bigger in Britain and Europe than they were in the US. They are certainly well known in the US ...but they are not on as many people's radar here as they are across the pond.
This channel is not representative of music fans in the broader sense. An internal poll might even reveal that jazz musicians rank higher in every category. It's also true that UK/Euro fans will be more familiar with Paice than the US listening audience. I'm Canadian, and remember being confused by the "new category" of speed metal .. eight years after the song Fireball.
@@shannonhenson609 Nobody in UK gives a tinker's cuss about the US. US rock absolutely sucked. That's why Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, The Rolling Stones and The Who were such continuous successful touring bands in the US. The US had nothing that came close.
Love this!! For what it's worth I'd like to add Keith moon, even Pete townsend said he only had one fill in his repertoire, no hi hat, the way he held his sticks, nope. Alex VH. When he went to electric drums for 1984 it broke my heart. Lars Ulrich? You'd think a man who makes millions would get better, he's only got worse.
I'm a huge Rush (and hence Neil Peart) fan, but I must agree with your assessment. I consider it to be fair. As Neil famously admitted, "I wasn't talented, but I was relentless". Neil was a genius at what he did. When we went to concerts, we wanted to hear those complex and fascinating drum parts, exactly as we'd learned them (whether in the air or on an actual kit); and he delivered every time. We also waited, in anticipation, for his innovative drum solo, and he always delivered that, too. I know lots of drummers that can readily play Neil's parts, but he came up with them. As I often say, I've seen 5-year olds play Mozart piano pieces. This does nothing to diminish the genius of the man. So it is, for me, with Neil Peart.
Well said. Neil didn’t ask for all the attention he got over the years, the attention came to him. I couldn’t take my eyes off him when he was playing.
The thing is Neil was complex and the music he played was the same time after time but it was what Neil wanted it to be. He wanted his song to be beat for beat the same on cd and concert. I believe he could have changed it up but perfection was big for him imo. But with that said I see your point and I'm not saying he's the best but his style is what I like.
Neil wrote probably half of rush great songs. To say Neil is anything but great is enough to not respect this dudes opinion. Just like his criticism of Charlie watts
@@chevy4x466 - "Half"? Surely, more than that!? Anyway, your point illustrates what a great man Neil was, but this video was focused solely on drumming. Personally, I consider him the greatest; but that's because I admire and adore the parts he created. Similarly, I adore Mozart's music, which he no doubt played perfectly; but could I honestly say Mozart was the greatest pianist? Whilst I'm not qualified to judge, I very much doubt that's the truth. I imagine the same goes for Neil. Either way, nothing will diminish my rating of him. Neither for his drumming, or his lyrics, which had a profound influence on my life.
@@AnthonyKellett ya that is cool. From what I have learned Neil is a man one could admire, and the real version of himself as a person would not disappoint. I understand Neil was the main songwriter, which is rare for a drummer. 🥁. I read a book clockwork angels which an author worked with Neil for the book. It was really cool. I am not a musician. But I do not think there is a best when it comes to music. Neil was a great drummer though. We know this cuz of the interesting music he wrote. Tomsawyer was brilliant and written in 7/4 time.
I’ve not heard of you before, but this video is exquisite. I love how articulate you are in saying that the drummers on this list are still great drummers, but they’re over-rated. You are really fascinating about the drums, your knowledge is vast and deep, thank you! Also you’re very funny, you’ve said many things that I’ve long believed, at some level, but had never heard expressed so clearly.
@@dogmatronic Yes! Mushroom and Halleluwah are my two favourite Can tracks. About 15 years ago I listened to Tago Mago every day for over a year and never got tired of it, because of that Groove 😄
Neil Peart has moved my musical cosmos that much that it doesn't matter what he could do or could not - and I am not the slightest bit offended - but I simply resist any logic. Neil Peart can not be overrated :) And truly, great show here, I enjoyed it a lot :)
Your assessment of Peart is accurate. Peart is overrated by non musicians. In an old interview, the interviewer asks Neil if he was influenced by Tony Williams, Neil had no response. Neil is heavy handed, lacks subtlety, and has no concept of groove. He actually lacks rhythmic sophistication. Most musicians want time and taste from the drummer. Neil was lacking in both. That's why he's only heard on Rush records.
Louie Bellson seemed like a very warm and humble man and it showed in his playing. I always got a "I can do what Buddy does, but I am going to play this tasty lick instead." kind of vibe from him.
He also brought the drum set out of the background, and created it as a valid solo instrument. Something, years later, Ginger Baker did in the rock genre.
Some drummers were the best fit for their band, such as Ringo Starr. Some drummers are pure musicians, who love to be tested constantly. Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham and Gavin Harrison are three of my favourites. Special mention to Phil Collins for his breathtaking drumming on " Unorthodox Behaviour" by Brand X. Check out the track Nuclear Burn
The most underrated and overlooked aspect of Neil Peart was his synergy with Geddy Lee. Not only locking in during grooves but there are some jaw-dropping fills and accents, e.g. on Farewell to Kings, with them playing together in rhe most amazing way. He was also a great composer and lyricist.
Amen. Buddy Rich was the polar opposite of that, he played what was needed to make him the center of attention, not serve the song. Feel is so much more important than flashy technique. A good example of an underrated drummer would be Al Davis Jr. of Booker T. and the M.G.'s, who played on all the great Stax records of the '60s and '70's. I was in a rock band with a loud, flashy drummer. When he left people thought we wouldn't be able to replace him. Our next drummer was less flashy, so less impressive to the uninformed, but he has great feel and knows what to play to serve the song. He made us a better band right away. Drummers like Buddy Rich the way guitarists like wankers like Yngwie Malmsteen.
@@mr.jazzbo2669 Well said, another thing is rhythm, some Drummers just aint got it, and I would put Peart and alex van Halen in that category, they may have had the chops, but give me Al JACKSON Jr, Charlie Watts or even Phil Rudd anyday if I want something to make me move..
Listening to Andy talking about female Drummers reminded me of when i was a young man a female Drummer called Honey Lantree was well known from the area i lived. As one of my friends played Drums in bands such as YaYa, we followed Drummers and Honey was thought of as a bit of a female icon in the 60s.
Neil Pearts fans EXPECTED him to play the same chops every time. He's the only one in history where the front row played air drums along with him live. Name me another drummer in any group that that took place...........Every gig.........Trying to play jazz improv drums to Rock standards does not fit. Listen to Bill Bruford on a 76 Genesis bootleg. It just doesn't sound right. Why do you think only the Cinema Show from 76 was included on Seconds Out. His adlibbing wasn't the done thing on a Rock Live performance, whereas Chester stuck to what the group wanted more (constricting, knowing his background) Jazz drummers play all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order.
Clapton fans expected him to play the same way every time. He started the same time as Jeff Beck. While Beck had evolved in a myriad ways, Clapton is still playing like he did in the 70s.
Neil was the perfect drummer for Rush. As a 59 year old drummer myself, I recognize there are hundreds of drummers with more technical skills. So fucking what. Neil wrote amazing drum parts for one of the greatest prog rock bands ever. Watch black guys react to Rush songs, and they comment on how smooth his playing was, seamless transitions, in and out of time signatures without the average radio listener even knowing it was happening. Credit to Alex and Geddy as well. I see where you might say he is overrated, in that there are Rush fans who aren't musicians and can't fathom that there are drummers out there with more skill....and for the record, there is no greatest drummer of all time
@@peterheckel7149 Funny, as a 66-year old life-long prog lover, I've never quite understood how Rush gets included under the prog umbrella, so hearing a statement like, "one of the prog rock bands ever" makes me recoil a bit. I've always appreciated Rush--especially for 2112 and "Subdivisions"--and for their instrumental skills--but never been won over by their music. Can't really explain it, either. It's just taste. Melody. Persona.
Thing about Charlie, he played basically the same stuff, night after night for about 60 years. That’s actually pretty amazing when you think about it, not easy to play so mind numbingly simple, exactly the same way for eternity. The fact the guy seemed to be pretty emotionally based also is no easy feat. I’m really living the fact I discovered your channel though man you are great!
I hate the internet haters that trash with all of their negativity because they are shielded behind a keyboard. That being said, even though I don't agree with your list, I can appreciate that you include a thoughtful, explaination that is non-aggressive. Thank you for not talking shit, just to talk shit. Now, I'd like to see your list of underated drummers. Rock on!🤙
Ian Paice stated ( at a drum clinic held in a Newcastle upon Tyne working men's club just before Deep Purple reformed ) that he preferred his solo from the later Made In Europe album because it was shorter and said everything he wanted to say .
I've been alarmingly fond of Paice since '68. (Here in Canada we often turned onto UK acts a little ahead of the US.) Yes, Made In Japan was an old-school showcasing set, great as it was. But the best bit about Ian Paice is that he attended a drum clinic at a Newcastle working men's club, what, 15 years into a career that average rock stars only dream of.
Made in Europe is one of my faves of DP along with Machine Head, In Rock and Burn. That is it for my in a nutshell. Ian Paice is a big influence on me along with Cobham, Curt Cress and Steve Upton (Wishbone Ash)
@@jublaim Yes, Steve Upton is a brilliant player. Miles Copeland was Wishbone's manager, and they practiced at the family home. His little brother learned drums from Steve Upton, and started his own band called The Police. Stewart Copeland's crisp style comes from Wishbone. Small world. Both are great players. I love that crisp toppy drum sound, ridding the bell/crips closed hi hat work, just like Ian Paice. It cuts through the PA and loud guitars. Bill Bruford of YES also. Cheers Mate!
Love your vids. I'm not even a drummer, but that was so interesting and funny too! I admire how you are brave enough to make these highly controversial lists, but back it up your claims with thoughtful, well-argued, constructive criticism that clearly comes from an obviously deep knowledge of drummers and drumming. I also love the way that when you go into your 'rants' you sound just like Stewart Lee!
Great job, there is something to say about celebrity or playing on an iconic song that changed the direction of music that raises one to a different level. Kind of like there are plenty of nobody's out there that sang better than Sinatra, but that doesn't make him overrated.
Dear Andy, in the Bundesliga - yes, I am talking about football - there is the club SC Freiburg and this club had the same manager for 14 years . This manager, Christian Streich, achieved extraordinary success, given the limited financial possibilities of this club. This manager was awarded Manager of the Year and he is without a doubt a fantastic manager. But he only managed this one club, which he had helped to become the club it is today. Some years ago Bayern München wanted to have him, but he was smart enough to say no. I think we can compare Christian Streich with Neil Peart as they blossomed only in one environment.
I am wondering why nobody ever talks about my absolute hero Jon Hiseman. Timekeeper, Storyteller on the drums, first class session drummer, leader of Colosseum and Tempest. Is he forgotten already? He influenced me a lot and I even got the chances to talk to him several times, what a great guy!
Not only. She was sitting on his lap after a concert answering my questions. But: colosseum and also Tempest were extraordenary groups fusioning Rock and Jazz in a very sophisticated way. They even influenced Bans like Chicago (Jon told me himself). Colosseum nevertheless one of the best bands ever!
With Ginger, it would be funny to see how he is ranked by those who never heard him speak versus those who have heard him be so self-congratulatory that you can't escape the urge to humble him.
I hope this takes into account inventiveness, how closely playing fits the song/music, groove ability and the creation of a unique style/sound that is identifiable. Drumming is so much more than pure technical skills.
very glad to not see Stewart copeland`s name on this list. As a non-connoisseur of the drumming intricacies and a non-musician, I have always been impressed by what he brought to the songs: The Hi-hat work, the syncopation, the fills, all the different influences from different musical genres, etc...all that blended in his own unique style. I love it.
As a fan of (real) music, and hence metal (both classic, modern, and extreme) I love your take and agree with it regarding the "cheating metal drummers" segment. I am a diehard death metal (thrash and a bit less on black metal) fan and other extreme subgenres of metal but I despise what has been done to the drums in modern metal. I DO understand that most of these bands (by comparison to more pop or rock-oriented artists) are broke as a joke so affording good equipment is an issue. Regardless, it's egregious what drums sound like on most modern extreme metal albums. The bass (kick) drums sound like someone beating typewriter keys that have some bass pushed onto them. And half the time, you don't know if the drummer in said band on said recording ACTUALLY played the part as it sounds ON the recording because of how fast and extremely precise it is. Quantizing (or lining things up on a grid) is another nasty problem. When did rock or metal need to be so metronomically exact as to sound machine-like instead, oh I don't know -like a REAL human who practiced! There is a death metal band, Dysmorphic Demiurge that I absolutely dig the hell out of. There are three guys: a vocalist who also plays some of the bass and two guitarists who play bass as well and split the drum programming duties. I defy anyone to listen to their three albums (of which, I own the first two) and say the drumming doesn't sound like a modern metal drummer as opposed to a program. I love the band so I'm not criticizing them for programming the drums. The problem I raise is you cannot tell the difference anymore between solid drum programming and a real drummer on modern extreme metal albums. And triggers, while being a great invention have destroyed extreme metal. Everyone sounds the SAME because of a huge library of sounds! Guys like Vinnie Colaiuta, Jeff Porcaro (RIP), and Bernard Purdie (amongst absolutely countless others) didn't get to the level they are (or were) at by relying on studio gimmicks and production! They can (could) ALL play! I own Vinnie's first solo album and I admit when I got it in the 90's, I thought it was gonna be him ripping solo after chops-filled solo. But no, he played with finesse and restraint. He showed a level of dexterity and musicality that is unmatched. Dave Weckl who is another PHENOMENAL player and isn't merely a drummer but a true musician practiced his butt off to get to the level he is at today! Even going through the issues he did in the 90s with his grip and getting Freddy Gruber to help him. Gavin Harrison, Billy Cobham, Jack DeJohnette, the late and still great Tony Williams, Sean Reinert, Gene Hoglan -I mean I could just list a ton more drummers but you get the point. ALL these guys got somewhere playing their asses off. Yeah, maybe some like Hoglan and the mighty George Kollias use triggers on their kicks (which I don't like) but regardless, they are massively talented (on Kollias' solo album, he plays most of the other rhythmic instruments, and has guests for solos and such). Point is, triggering (especially in metal) is just a massive problem. You no longer hear well-tuned and well-recorded drums, you just hear some library catalog sound from a module or computer that some other drummer played on an egregiously overly quantized and gridded song. Let the drums be heard and tweak them in post but let them breathe. Let's hear the drummer, not the triggered sounds. And stop over-quantizing and matching everything up to a grid. Let some mistakes be heard. Or do 20 or 30 takes until you get it right (Master of Puppets/Black album, anyone?). If anyone wants to hear a fantastic, chops filled but tasteful rock song, listen to Cozy Powell's "Killer" th-cam.com/video/oNeG9wcfcf0/w-d-xo.html. Just pure musicianship (from all parties) with some well tuned drums and a monster (and sadly lost) drummer. While I may not agree with all points to the rest of your list, it is, after all, your opinion and this was a great video. Good post.
Fell in love with Barriemore Barlow when I was 10 1/2 years old seeing Jethro Tull in March 1975 at the Nassau Coliseum My top 3 drummers are 1. Tony Williams 2. John Bonham 3. Barriemore Barlow
I don’t see many drummers beside myself that hate drum solos. I’ve played semi professional for nearly 30 years and I’ve only played one. I got called out by the father of the groom, and I had to do what I had to do, but I hated it. I don’t even solo at home by myself. I always play with music. Even as a lifetime Neil Peart fan I don’t mind what you said about him. It is true that he’s the best Neil Peart. I think his strength was in his composition. His performances were amazing but the way he created drum parts instead of just playing the drums is what made him a legend.
I'm an old Drummer that also hates drum solos, self indulgent, wastes of time. Never did did them when I was young and playing in bands, if I wanted to impress anyone or amuse myself I would just add military rolls (my 1st drum teacher made me learn them!) on the snare, while keeping a beat going to spice it up.
@@edljnehan2811 He took what Ringo Starr did with Pop drumming and flipped it on its head, gave it a couple kicks and stuck it on his 20 Tom Toms to bash away at. He also pioneered melodic drumming so
It's interesting about Peart. All you say is absolutely correct, and I think many drummers confuse their favourite drummer with the best drummer. The things about Peart's playing that makes him my favourite drummer is one of the aspects you mention - it's that he was a compositional drummer. How he thought about the drum parts that he put into Rush songs is an art all in itself, and he speaks to so many drummers for that reason alone. Certainly his playing was the touchstone for mine, but I would also say that improvisation is not my strong suit. I would be interested to hear your take on Jon Hiseman - a very similar drummer to Peart, but with stronger chops...
Bonham and Peart are not overrated…their accolades are deserved. These two drummers had the largest catalog of iconic fills and parts in Rock history. They are on the Mount Rushmore of Rock drummers, and hence cannot be overrated.
@@charlesbritt842oh shit, silly me. I thought these were actors and as im not a silver screen critic i just couldnt put a face to the name, which i didnt know. Duh- dum- crash!!
Even as a Rush fan, I have to agree with your point about Neil Peart never really drumming outside of Rush. Neil Peart did recognise his limitations. That's why he took drum tutoring from Freddie Gruber and later from Steve Erskine. His drum solos did change from night to night. I have a few bootlegs and it is apparent on shows about a month apart. It would be nice if Rush released more of their live shows. But again your point about not improvising is valid. When he incorporated changes he would add or remove sections whilst rehearsing before the show. He mentions that in the 'Rush in Rio' DVD. I'm glad that someone else doesn't rate "Toad" or "Moby Dick".
I don't know of many serious Rush fans that think Neil was technically the best drummer in the world. A lot of casual ones will say such things, but similar people will tell you Eddie Van Halen is the best guitarist ever. Even Neil admitted he realized his own limitations by being a rock-only drummer. I do know a lot of Rush fans consider him one of the best drum composers in rock. There are lots of nuances to his drum parts which often go overlooked. As for technical chops, it's a bit of a muddy water. No matter who you name there will always be some guy who will name some session player or some jazz-funk-disco-punk-fusion player the general public has never heard of (or Ringo Starr) who will presumably blow away whomever you named. One of the things you come to realize about music is it's all just notes. Most any talented musician can play anything by any other talented musician given enough practice. The genius is how the notes are put together and phrased. Certainly Neil was one of the most influential rock drummers. Certainly he inspired many drummers. Certainly he was appreciated by his peers. For those reasons alone, it's hard to imagine him not being on a list of "greatest rock drummers" whether he was technically at the top or not. And of course he had an ace-in-the-hole: he was undeniably the greatest lyricist drummer to walk the face of the Earth.
Rush stands out in the Pantheon because of their compositions as a whole, not because of their solo abilities. Also, because of their curiosity and desire to evolve.
I loved Simon Kirke with Bad Co., before I even knew that Free had come first. He has the HARDEST sounding snare stroke, absolute granite. But not from physical effort, having watched old Free videos, but from what I take (as a non drummer) to be his dead-on timing and pocket feel.
I suppose one could make the case that any musician (with a few possible exceptions) who is highly rated would likely fall into the category of being overrated (would this video be near the top of the most overrated videos about overrating - it's like an Escher sketch!). So, by virtue of that, anybody that's rated at all runs the risk of being overrated as it's all about personal opinion (use of the Superiometer nothwithstanding). I think this is a good effort, Captain Andy - you're giving us a little more personal passion and a little less glibness - if practice makes perfect, your practice is getting better all the time! How about a video on the 10 Most Overrated Overratings? Cheers!
Good video. I think a big reason that Karen Carpenter is overrated today is because her story is so compelling. I see some serious justice in the girl who loved drumming and was told that girls could only be singers being given a bit more than her due as a drummer 40 years after her death. I'm kind of reluctant to take that away from her.
@@regaltip8A Really? I never read that anywhere! I guess if Bernard Purdy played all the drum parts on the later Beatles albums, anything could be true.
Steve Gadd is phenomenal. Two of his greats are "Late In The Evening" and "Fifty Ways To Leave Your Lover" by Paul Simon. Gadd is a metronome and yet plays with incredible feel.
@@stattonz1 Andy commented on it in a video abour overrated bands or albums, I cant remember. The argument was that yea, Aja is great, but Gadd was playing like this on many records. This is what sparked my interest to find more Gadd sessions, cause I was astonished by this drum solo for a long time, but I couldn't move pass it.
A lot of this, as Andy points out, is us stating our preferences in reaction to Andy. I tend to focus on lesser known drummers because they need the publicity (even if they have passed on). For instance, I love Drumbo, Robert Williams, Pip Pyle, Gary Husband (fantastic), Art Tripp, Jon Hiseman, Brian Davison, Robert Wyatt, Mani Neumaier, and Guy Evans, among others, because they are very unique drummers and a bit underrecognized. All the drummers mentioned are experts in their areas.
The amount of shit people write in the comment section on youtube is astounding. Grown adults who cant stand someone they dont even know having a different opinion then them.
Congratulations Andy. This was, by a country mile, the most entertaining top 10 list I've watched. I don't know what made me laugh most - "most over-rated ... by Ginger Baker" or the imagined conversation between the Brummie techies recording Bill Ward's drums. Bonham's tympani discussion was another highlight. In the end it's imagining the evangelical fans of Rush (is there any other type) suffering apoplexy at your heretical conclusion that has me laughing hardest. As for Karen Carpenter? Who cares about her drumming when you hear that voice?
He makes very valid points and I agree with 99% with what he's saying. Especially at 26:29-30:03 about Chad Smith. Chad Smith has very sloppy technique and is incredibly overrated. I've never understood why people go ga-ga over his playing. And also at 30:25-34:15 about Ginger Baker. Incredibly overrated.
Brilliant discussion Andy, you are right on the money. I think seasoned drummers, and musicians in general, know that the typical "greatest drummer" rankings lists are meant for non-musicians and people who haven't truly devoted countless hours to listening to a variety of drummers. You have the pedigree and knowledge to explain why these usual suspects are overrated, and I couldn't agree more with your reasoning.
100% agree with your observations about session drummers vs show-ponies. For that reason, I'll mention the totally unflashy but rock solid Dave Mattacks.
The truth is that these top lists of best drummers (and instrumentalists in general) are massively influenced by the bands and albums that the drummer is involved in. They are iconic bands and albums and the drummer does an excellent job so the tendency is one to say "he's the best drummer in the world!". And the same happens with excellent drummers who weren't involved with such iconic bands or albums, and it's (unfortunately) normal for them to be forgotten from these top lists.
Oh my God, that was amusing! I can't tell you how early on in your video that I knew Neil Peart was going to be number one. How right you are. Neal was probably the most influential drummer I listened to when I was a teenager and he definitely shaped my playing greatly, but when you watch his technique, it's really not very good. Compare him to an Ian Paice, or a Dave Weckl, or a Vinny Colaiuta and it just doesn't even compare. I mean they're not even in the same worlds. He was perfect for the music that he was playing with his band mates, but he didn't exactly have chops in the same way so many other guys have chops. If you listen to interviews with him, he kind of knows it as well and I think he's embarrassed to take the amount of credit that he has been given. I still talk to so many guys about Neil and they think he is the greatest and unfortunately, they just don't really know what technique is and how it shows up in drumming and they can't really appreciate it because they can't really see it. I also agree with you, Ian Paice was the greatest! Your video was a little harsh, but it certainly was entertaining!
The people who put Chad Smith atop best funk drummers lists are likely the same ones who say Flea is the greatest funk bassist and the RHCP are the greatest of funk bands i.e. people who appear to know sweet FA about real funk. When I listened to metal as a teen I was always way more impressed with Ian Paice than Bonzo.. 100% agree re You Tube/Instagram drummers. Same goes for YT bedroom guitar and bass players, who seem to be all about working the algorithim.
I'm with you on Ginger Baker - for all his self-professed expertise, he just didn't hit the drums in an exciting way like Keith Moon (who he dissed in interviews). Totally agree that Bill Ward was underrated too - he could combine heft with finesse, inventiveness and experimentation without being flash. For instance, the unexpected Caribbean-style drum and percussion interlude in the middle of Supernaut - it works well within the arrangement of the song and doesn't overpower it and yet it is still experimental, bringing in a style from another genre. Simon Kirke is a good example of a drummer where his feel really suits the songs - he is technically good but not an attention-seeker. Not sure I agree with Bonham being on the list though but you have explained your reasons well!
I'm from Quebec but some of my favorite drummers are English or Scottish: Mark Brzezicki, Phil Gould and Mel Gaynor. I cannot overstate how good are! I rarely hear them being mentioned by drummers.
Buddy Rich just irritates me. There I’ve said it. Tremendous technique, but also just a show off. Doesn’t appeal to me in anyway. Give me someone like Ed Thigpen or Joe Morello anyday.
I remember seeing him on Johnny Carson and did find him a bit insufferable. But my attitude has softened some since then as that was what they brought the guy on to do. I have heard he could listen to a drum part and play it beat for beat from memory. If that is true then he was truly a freak.
When people say “Buddy is the best of all time” I cringe. Man I love Buddy, but he’s not even top 20 man. He’s the ultimate big band drummer, but aside from being fast he did fuck all for drumming Krupa brought Tom toms to the forefront of drumming and took them from a niche instrument to a drum kit staple, Krupa walked so Buddy could abuse his snare drum and talk about how much he hates rock and country. Krupa always was more humble and progressive
I think of buddy as a showman. He sold tickets with his speed. His music was not my cup of tea though. However, I still enjoy watches his amazing performances. I have a lot of respect for him
The thing about Ginger for me is that he might be overrated for what he did with Cream in the studio couse he did not over play on many tracks couse they did not need it but for the style he developed later he aged like a fine wine doing those african polyrythmn things and people only know his Cream stuff and say this is pretty simple and don't ever look into what he did later and it was mostly live drumsolos. He's under and overrated depending of the perspective you got. People say he overplayed and others say he played too simple :D
Yeah, I think most of his best playing with Cream was live. Disraeli Gears in particular has a real minimalist vibe to it, which is fine in its own way, but you can sort of tell it was recorded in only 2-3 days. He also suffers from the crap typical mid-60s style stereo mixes on his drums for those first two Cream albums compared to the slightly later, better recorded players. The mono original is really the only true way to hear Fresh Cream without it being stripped of power and balance. For guitar led heavy/psych rock I think his best playing in the studio was with the three Baker Gurvitz Army albums and Masters of Reality.
Keith Moon is underrated (for his drumming) in a way. He played differently from all of the other drummers of his era. He wasn't technical or structured, but what he had that no one else had, was that he was hard to imitate. I can play a Bill Ward beat or a John Bonham beat, and I think you'd agree that it basically sounds the same. I don't think I could play a Keith Moon part and make it sound like him, he was just too chaotic and random. So for that, I think he's underrated, not overrated.
@@Cedric_Harris Interesting comment. Chaotic and random are what I didn't like about his playing but ironically, I like a lot of the Who's songs so who am I to say he wasn't a good drummer? He obviously was I just wasn't a fan of his style.
@@tommysonnier9848 I think I'm on the fence about whether I like his style or not. I never thought of him as very remarkable, but I listened to all of Who's Next a couple of weeks ago and was blown away by how great he fit the rest of the band. I definitely think Bonham was overrated though.
The YT video of Greyson Nekrutman playing to Caravan for 13 minutes is pretty amazing. I just recently came across it. Some of the commenters comparing him to Buddy Rich.
I always liked the drummers who did most with least, Simon Kirke (Free Bad Company) Ric Lee (TYA) Bill Ward has to be the Least Overrated on the planet, if you catch my drift
😂I love Gingers solo's. I think they always tell a story. Loved his trio with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden. I could listen to him play 12/8 African style beats all day. I agree that his dismissal of other drummers came from a place of insecurity. Enjoyed the video!
@@victorpearson1418 I was just reading a short excerpt of Bill Frisell describing the first sessions with Ginger. It seemed like one of the moments where Ginger was truly happy musically. Bill Frisell was a massive Cream fan and to him he said Ginger's playing was already in his DNA so I think it was a big thrill for him to play with Ginger and Charlie, who was also one of his heros.
Ive heard some people say Warren Cann of Ultravox is overrated. I completely disagree. He is a great drummer and he also innovative in drum programming and sounds
I remember seeing a TV interview with Charlie Watts from at least 25 years ago. He was asked which Stones songs have his favorite drum playing. He said the ones a studio drummer played on. But, ARRRGH! Not Buddy Rich! Who is the Bruce Lee of drumming! There is always a lot of patter back and forth in the martial arts/MMA world about whether Bruce could actually fight a real opponent. Some movie a couple years even did a fantasy scene where a stunt man beats the shit out of Lee on the movie set. That doesn't matter! Bruce was the most beautiful fighter to watch of all time. Same with Buddy Rich. Watching and listening to him is magical like no one else. (Oh, wait a minute. That's Edwards' point. Buddy was a showman. Still, his tune 'Monster' from 1955 or 56 is breathtaking.) And yet, everything this guy here (Andy) says is spot on and somehow incredibly thoughtful and intelligent.
Blood Sugar Sex Magic was my entryway to funk, but it led me to Meters (and that to Neville Bro’s Mean Willie Green), and then to James Brown. Those drummers were BADASS, and those bands had the stank grooves
Had the pleasure of meeting and having a few pints with him. He watched me play. He knew the singer/ guitarist. We were a two piece at the time. Id be lying if I said it was not nerve racking to play in front of a drumming legend but he made the experience great. He was particularly good at letting me know where my weaknesses where, and what I needed to improve without being obvious or rude. Which wouldn't really matter if he did. I know my limitations and I have an odd setup where I am left handed but play a right handed set up, which he did seem to appreciate. He had a limitless amount of stories but I didn't want him to bombard him with questions. I knew he did just fill in for the Rezillos so we talked about that. And he loved talking about the punk and ska stuff. He said he had great fun with Buster Blood vessel with Bad Manners in particular. Great guy. The last thing he said to me was, shouting my name, and saying "keep f*cking battering them drums" Wish I met him more often. He passed away a year or two later.
The situation with Neil Peart is the same as with Steve Howe on guitar. When Guthrie Govan filled in on guitar in Asia there were all these old fans that claimed in all seriousness that Steve could outplay Guthrie. You can like Steve’s playing more but to claim Steve Howe has better technique than Guthrie Govan…if you believe that you can believe anything.
#10: Buddy had astonishing tricks. And he swung his ass off. But he embarrassed himself when he tried to go beyond his genre. #9: Internet drummers are like the street drummers in New York. They have a few cool beats yet couldn't play a gig. #8: Karen Carpenter is fine. She actually started those sparse fills with the small single head toms that Hal Blaine inherited. But, come on...she's an amazing singer. #7: Funny thing about Tayor. I originally thought he was too heavy handed, but it was perfect for Queen. He's no genius, but I think he was an integral part of the band. #6: Charlie Watts-- Yeah. people want to praise him because he's a long time member of an iconic band. But, let's face it -- he's quite mediocre. #5: Metal drummers. Tons of chops. That's it. #4 Chad Smith is a great groove player with a great sound but he's basically Don Brewer II. #3: Ginger was an essential element to Cream's sound. His primal sloppiness worked with Bruce's jazzy sloppiness very well. He brought the role of the drummer to the forefront. I'll give him that. #2 John Bonham influenced every drummer who followed. Nobody used the bass drum like him prior to him. He's important. #1: Neil Peart The reason he sucks at jazz is because he's so strict, rigid, solid and very "quantized" sounding. It's ANTI swing. But it's great for RUSH. Very musical. I'd add Louie Bellson as the most overrated. His swing was stiff and his solos were all the same. And he never told a story with his solos. It was just wankery. Nice guy though.
Charlie Watts might be "mediocre" but he has a very distinct and recognizable sound. Can't say that about most drummers. The only time I ever heard unreasonable praise heaped on him was when he passed away. Some people were going way overboard with the praise.
@@johanjotun1647 Not true. Sure, compared to modern day drummers, but listen to Buddy's footwork in his solos. Masterful phrasing. He was miles ahead of guys of his generation.
Chad smith absolutely deserves to be in the top handful of funk drummers. The guy making this list is into chops and special techniques. That's not what i like about drumming and thats not what chad smith contributed to drumming. His drumming makes you want to shake your butt. Too many drummers evaluate everything by technique and completely forget about songwriting. I say that someone can be just 'good' as far as technique, but if they write iconic drum parts that everyone wants to listen to, supports the song and inspires people to play, they can be the drum goat.
Great list, but sorry Peart doesn't deserve to be on this list at all in my opinion. Why is it that he always gets crucified for not swinging more or playing more laid back? Does Omar Hakim or Steve Smith ever get called out for not playing more technical? Another favourite Neil gripe is that he plays the same way for every song. You mentioned that you like improvisation. Ok, so? Neil isn't that kind of a drummer. He gets negative points for that? Peart to me took the best of Keith Moon, Michael Giles, Bill Bruford Phil Collins and Billy Cobham to create his own style. The fact that he played in a band that was incredibly popular meant that he was super influential to a lot of young drummers. John Bonham on the other hand receives accolades for things he didn't create - his right foot not withstanding. You constantly hear about the "Bonham sound", which is laughable because it's really the "Carmine Appice sound". Appice got thrown under the bus long ago for that one. Obviously Zep is bigger than Vanilla Fudge, so... Bonham should definitely be number one. Keith Moon should have been on this list and definitely Lars Ulrich. If you want to talk about someone playing the same way, Chad Smith is the king. I also agree that Ian Paice is a much better drummer than Bonham and is always overlooked.
If Andy put Moon on the list, in addition to Bonham and Peart, he'd have been band from TH-cam and England's thought police would be dragging him from his bed in the middle of the night. Andy is ballsy. He's not stupid. No Moon for you!
Phil Collins needs to be on the Top 10 Underrated Drummers list. The fact that he went on to be a massive Star that sang and wrote all his own music for decades, and in multiple genres from Blockbuster films, to pop-rock, to blue-eyed soul, to the "prog" stuff he did with Genesis, etc...He is an amazing talent and his son, Nick, seems to be eager to carry the mantel forward.
Yep. He's an odd one because he is VERY well known for In the Air Tonight with that iconic gated drum break but most people have NO IDEA that one of their favorite drummers (just because of that part and some other radio-friendly stuff he's done) is ALSO ACTUALLY one of the VERY BEST drummers on Planet Earth, in a technical sense. Many of those people would be hesitant to tell an aficionado that they like Phil Collins' drumming because of that drum part. They would expect you to cringe and admonish them and would be surprised when you tell them that "Phil Collins is one of the best drummers that has ever lived and that is a fact". Hilarious but true.
Rock drummers idolize John Bonham. John Bonham idolized Carmine Appice of Vanilla Fudge (and got the idea for the oversize bass drum from him). Appice idolized Dino Danelli of the Young Rascals (and got the idea for the oversize bass drum from him). To see a master drummer at work, check out the video showing the Rascals playing Good Loving live in their first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show. Danelli was trained in jazz and was picked by Lionel Hampton to be the drummer of his big band when Danelli was in his mid-teens. Appice wasn't alone in his appreciation of Danelli's playing: all the rock drummers in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, etc., tried to play like him. (Look up the single Bad Apple by the Pilgrimage - the drummer clearly had Danelli's sound in mind.)
On your anecdote regarding the Eric Marienthal album Crossroads, with that track you mentioned 'The Sun was in my Eyes' when i first heard it, i personally thought it was Weckl, not Vinnie. The drum sound, the fills, almost positive it was him. And i was surprised,as you were, to see it was Terri Lyne Carrington playing! She's amazing! And you're telling it like it is regarding Neil Peart, 100% agree!
[32:14] I've never laughed so much.
Andy managed to create a new anti-hate language. It's impossible to hate his opinions with his sense of humor and excellent explanations. If all TH-camrs learned to communicate like Andy, there would be no more haters on the internet. You can express your opinion without hurting anyone, I really love this channel.
Its his opinion of the drummers he has heard , Nightwish drummer that got insomniac and cant tour Jukka "Animal" Nevalainen , good drummer , replacement drummer Kai Hahto has played drums since he was 3, teaches drumming and its ergonomics, learner one famous band set in less that a day , he got call when their original drummer had accident , he wrote the band set drum sections to note form , as he put it lot of people can drum, but cant read drum notes .
Thats also why his work is easy to play if you can read notes, he did drum part to WinterSun, Sons of Winter and Stars, Jari Mäenpää did all the rest .
@@desistindo1
Nah mate . Andy’s just a bitter whiny Pom who’s got us sucked in to his click bate rubbish . I hate this guy more than he hates ., and this is very very sad for me .
One thing I'd say for Watts, Taylor and Carpenter is that they all knew how to drum in service of a song. That's never an overrated skill.
That's an overrated skill and has become the default position for every musician. I can't think of any musician who doesn't fit the song on which they play... honestly. I feel like it's the equivalent of a participation award in music.
Ginger was one of the few and first drummers with the bravery to share a bandstand with top jazz drummers. Mitchell copied Baker post-Hendrix, recorded, but what widely known. (He was tremendous with Keith Emerson, btw.)
@@garygomesvedicastrology That's a bit rich coming from an astrologer. Now there's a highly overrated "skill."
@@Matt__BAd hominem attacks usually indicate a lack of a strong argument. I have been a musician for over 50 years.
@@Matt__BWhat you think about what I do is pretty irrelevant to the conversation, don't you think? The first skill I ever heard my drummer friends develop was keeping time; the second was playing to the song. It's a basic skill, used by critics to elevate competent drummers to stars.
Sorry for prolonging this...I think we got into this before with someone and I don't want to prolong anyone's agony over this. Let's just say we disagree.
If you read enough internet comments, you find that everyone on earth is either under-rated or over-rated. It's amusing.
Well, to be fair, how many clicks are you going to get for "10 Most Accurately Rated Drummers"?
@@danaaronmusic Good one lol
@@kevhead1525 Two Categories more make sense:
Most Under-Overrated and most Over-Underrated.
Kevhead, YOU'RE overrated!
I've you're overrated, you've still got to be pretty good to be rated in the first place.
Mark King once said of himself “I’m not the greatest bass player but I am a popular bass player” (if I remember right), which shows a refreshing degree of self-awareness
That's just another that has his own greatest list. It means he's really a fan of someone else before him. I call it honesty. Everyone has their own list, true fans will never be that great. Those are the lists to take note of. They're straight up honest. My first time here with Mr. Edwards, this is honest. Making it a list I stuck around for.
I am glad Stewart Copeland didn't make your list. He's my favourite drummer. So creative. And, in turn, Copeland's favourite drummer Mitch Mitchell was also correctly absent from your list.
oh yeah - Mitch Mitchell is the king of light touch and superfast, melodical fills! my No.1 along with Bonham
I recommend "Bingo" from "The banana splits" for this "honour".
Legend
No way, man - he was stellar, consistent, and always paid the tab when we went out drinkin'..!
@@tommyapocalypse6096 True, the Charlie Watts of the fictional children's world unlike 'Animal".
Omg. Was just talking to my brother about them. He actually bought their 45 through the mail😅
wasn't that Hal Blaine?
So glad Mitch Mitchell is not listed. He was the compliment Jimi needed. Improv and feel
Absolutely overrated.
@@ruffryder13 Nah, come on. His work on those Hendrix albums was brilliant and very influential. He's very respected among lots of drummers. Though I can admit he didn't do anyhing of note outside of the Hendrix stuff. From what I hear he had a quite severe alcohol problem.
@@linuswang6572 He was occasionally good playing behind one of the best if not the best guitarist of all time.
I've found that the *only* people that are into him are drummers, and they seem to ultimately enjoy him only because he played on a couple of great albums that were 99% Hendrix. They seem to be unable to imagine what is clearly true which is that 1000 other drummers would have also occasionally sounded good behind Hendrix.
@@ruffryder13🤡
@@ruffryder13 Maybe...But to me Mitchell FIT Hendrix exactly right style wise, and kept the feel very open. Whereas to me, even most really great drummers would have made the feel too tight. I don't know if Mitchells playing style would have worked well with anyone else to tell you the truth...down at a corner jazz bar probably.
Carl Palmer is relieved
Now he is definitely overrated imo.
Palmer overrated ???? What are you smoking ?
@@wotireckonPalmer is one of if not the greatest drummer in the world. Any of you doubters should have seen him play from 1970 to 1975😮 just because your boyfriend don't like him😅
@@dugganclhallrentals2089 he’s talented af and has ton of chops. Solid innovative and creative. Solos are outstanding but….never heard the guy play a funky syncopated groove. Could he play a song with tons of space between notes and relax? Maybe? Good drummers know often times it’s what you DON’T play for the music that makes it cool.
@@webbvandiver9139 He's more of a Classical drummer and that's his bag and he was bloody good at it in his prime.
I'll admit that as a lifelong RUSH fan seeing Neil's name at the top of your list hurt a little bit. But after hearing you out I think you're spot on. Neil was the perfect drummer for RUSH and that's what he wanted to do musically. He freely admitted that he was out of his depth with the Burnin' for Buddy thing. He struggled and was ultimately unhappy with his result. I think one of the things that made Neil so great was his humility, I don't think he let the accolades go to his head and he kept learning and trying to get better. There's no way Neil would have ever put himself at the top of any great drummer list.
I also think you're spot on about John Bonham and Ian Pace.
He was the most innovative progressive rock drummer ever. And innovation makes you great. Not an amateurish opinion like this fool.
If I saw Animal on here, I would have been rightfully pissed
I don't think Animal could swing.
I heard he died of a long illness of threadbare on his palms and soles.
Animal was the heart and soul of both The Muppets and Dr Teeth and The Electric Mayhem.
@@PeterBrown-mz4nv Animal could swing...... from the rafters.
Good one.
Bill Ward is fantastic and criminally underrated. His jazz background shows on complex stuff like “Cornucopia” - just amazing.
Same for Alex Van Hallen criminaly under rated , is high speed Shuffle on ( hot for the teacher) was insane !
🎯
@🏆Meteotrance
@@Meteotrancenow achieving the HFT intro drummers can do but the original on the 1984 album
was done with Roland drums in the beginning.
You can tell when the real drums come in by the sound of the snare,cymbals.
I knew that from the first listen,not saying Alex wasn’t a good drummer quite the opposite,he is way underrated.
Yes yes yes bill ward extremely underrated!!!!!!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤😂😂😂😂
Steve Jansen of Japan and Prairie Prince of the Tubes are superb
I've had the honour of shaking Prairie Prince's hand. 😍 Melt.
Terry Chambers of XTC, Pat Mastelotto too, both he and Prairie played on XTC albums too as did Dave Mattacks.
Yes I know
The Tubes : favorite american band along with Steely dan. Love Prairie Prince !
@@sspbrazil XTC did very well with their drummers
Not overrated:
Nigel Olsson or Ian Paice
@@jamieflowers1493Not so, pretty well all classic rock fans know who Ian is, definitely one of the greats🤘🏻
@@jamieflowers1493 You really must have been born last week to think that about Ian Paice because Deep Purple were constantly all over the UK rock press in the 70's. As was also his tenure in PAL, Whitesnake and Gary Moore Band and again with Purple's reformation. You could not fail to have known his name. And any major dude bona fide rock drummer will tell you that he very much is a top drummer.
@@apollomemories7399 Keep in mind....Deep Purple were MUCH bigger in Britain and Europe than they were in the US. They are certainly well known in the US ...but they are not on as many people's radar here as they are across the pond.
This channel is not representative of music fans in the broader sense. An internal poll might even reveal that jazz musicians rank higher in every category. It's also true that UK/Euro fans will be more familiar with Paice than the US listening audience. I'm Canadian, and remember being confused by the "new category" of speed metal .. eight years after the song Fireball.
@@shannonhenson609 Nobody in UK gives a tinker's cuss about the US. US rock absolutely sucked. That's why Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, The Rolling Stones and The Who were such continuous successful touring bands in the US. The US had nothing that came close.
I love John Bonham but in 1975 San Diego Sports Arena I fell asleep during the drum solo in Moby Dick
Love this!! For what it's worth I'd like to add Keith moon, even Pete townsend said he only had one fill in his repertoire, no hi hat, the way he held his sticks, nope. Alex VH. When he went to electric drums for 1984 it broke my heart. Lars Ulrich? You'd think a man who makes millions would get better, he's only got worse.
Amen.
I'm a huge Rush (and hence Neil Peart) fan, but I must agree with your assessment. I consider it to be fair. As Neil famously admitted, "I wasn't talented, but I was relentless".
Neil was a genius at what he did. When we went to concerts, we wanted to hear those complex and fascinating drum parts, exactly as we'd learned them (whether in the air or on an actual kit); and he delivered every time. We also waited, in anticipation, for his innovative drum solo, and he always delivered that, too.
I know lots of drummers that can readily play Neil's parts, but he came up with them. As I often say, I've seen 5-year olds play Mozart piano pieces. This does nothing to diminish the genius of the man. So it is, for me, with Neil Peart.
Well said. Neil didn’t ask for all the attention he got over the years, the attention came to him. I couldn’t take my eyes off him when he was playing.
The thing is Neil was complex and the music he played was the same time after time but it was what Neil wanted it to be. He wanted his song to be beat for beat the same on cd and concert. I believe he could have changed it up but perfection was big for him imo. But with that said I see your point and I'm not saying he's the best but his style is what I like.
Neil wrote probably half of rush great songs. To say Neil is anything but great is enough to not respect this dudes opinion. Just like his criticism of Charlie watts
@@chevy4x466 - "Half"? Surely, more than that!?
Anyway, your point illustrates what a great man Neil was, but this video was focused solely on drumming. Personally, I consider him the greatest; but that's because I admire and adore the parts he created. Similarly, I adore Mozart's music, which he no doubt played perfectly; but could I honestly say Mozart was the greatest pianist? Whilst I'm not qualified to judge, I very much doubt that's the truth. I imagine the same goes for Neil. Either way, nothing will diminish my rating of him. Neither for his drumming, or his lyrics, which had a profound influence on my life.
@@AnthonyKellett ya that is cool. From what I have learned Neil is a man one could admire, and the real version of himself as a person would not disappoint. I understand Neil was the main songwriter, which is rare for a drummer. 🥁. I read a book clockwork angels which an author worked with Neil for the book. It was really cool. I am not a musician. But I do not think there is a best when it comes to music. Neil was a great drummer though. We know this cuz of the interesting music he wrote. Tomsawyer was brilliant and written in 7/4 time.
I’ve not heard of you before, but this video is exquisite. I love how articulate you are in saying that the drummers on this list are still great drummers, but they’re over-rated. You are really fascinating about the drums, your knowledge is vast and deep, thank you!
Also you’re very funny, you’ve said many things that I’ve long believed, at some level, but had never heard expressed so clearly.
Any love for Jaki Liebezeit on here? I always loved his work with Can.
One man metronome and his name is literally Love-Time. Truly great at coming up with grooves - Mushroom is one of my favourites.
Jake and Tiki Fulwood (Funkadelic) are my absolute favorite drummers.
@@dogmatronic Yes! Mushroom and Halleluwah are my two favourite Can tracks. About 15 years ago I listened to Tago Mago every day for over a year and never got tired of it, because of that Groove 😄
@@CraigHARRELL-se9xm Excellent! I'll check out Tiki 😎
Halleluwah is amazing. But with Jaki the song I always think of is Don't Say No from Saw Delight, and particularly the live versions.
Neil Peart has moved my musical cosmos that much that it doesn't matter what he could do or could not - and I am not the slightest bit offended - but I simply resist any logic. Neil Peart can not be overrated :)
And truly, great show here, I enjoyed it a lot :)
to see Neil live was a treasure
@@PaulFormentos Agreed. And the best bit is, I was there for the Show Of Hands recording, so I can watch him over and over again.
Peart was overrated. But a hell of a great guy.
Your assessment of Peart is accurate. Peart is overrated by non musicians. In an old interview, the interviewer asks Neil if he was influenced by Tony Williams, Neil had no response. Neil is heavy handed, lacks subtlety, and has no concept of groove. He actually lacks rhythmic sophistication. Most musicians want time and taste from the drummer. Neil was lacking in both. That's why he's only heard on Rush records.
Louie Bellson seemed like a very warm and humble man and it showed in his playing. I always got a "I can do what Buddy does, but I am going to play this tasty lick instead." kind of vibe from him.
Buddy could also play tasty :D
Maybe- but he definitely didn't have Buddy's chops.
Really agree. Years ago watched a video that was part performance and part documentary and he seemed like such a good-hearted person.
@@JunkerOnDrums When he played with Dizzy. Coz that Guy knew Rhythm.
He also brought the drum set out of the background, and created it as a valid solo instrument. Something, years later, Ginger Baker did in the rock genre.
Some drummers were the best fit for their band, such as Ringo Starr.
Some drummers are pure musicians, who love to be tested constantly.
Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham and Gavin Harrison are three of my favourites.
Special mention to Phil Collins for his breathtaking drumming on " Unorthodox Behaviour" by Brand X.
Check out the track Nuclear Burn
Nuclear Burn is absolute 🔥
@@webbvandiver9139I second that, Phil is an all round musical genius, and UB is incendiary from start to finish🤘🏻
Gavin Harrison is the bomb geez 🤘🏻
@@Hawkwind77
I take it you're a Hawkwind fan!
Saw them live in '75 with Lemmy.
@bobparr4723 same here I saw them on the warriors on the edge tour
I LOVE your comments on Heavy Metal, not the theme of this video, but with this sideline you hit the spot, so true.
I love that he gave props to both Mick Harris and Danny Herrera of Napalm Death: I did not expect that.
John Bonham could play How Many More Times, Stairway, Achilles, AND Fool in the Rain. So he cannot be overrated.
Bill Ward was a better drummer. 😅😅😅
He has the most memorable drumming opening ever. Just listen to When The Levee Breaks
Children of the grave.
The most underrated and overlooked aspect of Neil Peart was his synergy with Geddy Lee. Not only locking in during grooves but there are some jaw-dropping fills and accents, e.g. on Farewell to Kings, with them playing together in rhe most amazing way. He was also a great composer and lyricist.
Rush is great because they all work together perfectly.
A good drummer is a drummer that plays what's needed for the song.
Thank you. Exactly.
Amen. Buddy Rich was the polar opposite of that, he played what was needed to make him the center of attention, not serve the song. Feel is so much more important than flashy technique. A good example of an underrated drummer would be Al Davis Jr. of Booker T. and the M.G.'s, who played on all the great Stax records of the '60s and '70's. I was in a rock band with a loud, flashy drummer. When he left people thought we wouldn't be able to replace him. Our next drummer was less flashy, so less impressive to the uninformed, but he has great feel and knows what to play to serve the song. He made us a better band right away. Drummers like Buddy Rich the way guitarists like wankers like Yngwie Malmsteen.
Exactly.
@@mr.jazzbo2669
Well said, another thing is rhythm, some Drummers just aint got it, and I would put Peart and alex van Halen in that category, they may have had the chops, but give me Al JACKSON Jr, Charlie Watts or even Phil Rudd anyday if I want something to make me move..
Listening to Andy talking about female Drummers reminded me of when i was a young man a female Drummer called Honey Lantree was well known from the area i lived.
As one of my friends played Drums in bands such as YaYa, we followed Drummers and Honey was thought of as a bit of a female icon in the 60s.
Neil Pearts fans EXPECTED him to play the same chops every time. He's the only one in history where the front row played air drums along with him live. Name me another drummer in any group that that took place...........Every gig.........Trying to play jazz improv drums to Rock standards does not fit. Listen to Bill Bruford on a 76 Genesis bootleg. It just doesn't sound right. Why do you think only the Cinema Show from 76 was included on Seconds Out. His adlibbing wasn't the done thing on a Rock Live performance, whereas Chester stuck to what the group wanted more (constricting, knowing his background) Jazz drummers play all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order.
Chester would also have to stick to what Zappa wanted. Zappa was one of the strictest band leaders.
Clapton fans expected him to play the same way every time.
He started the same time as Jeff Beck. While Beck had evolved in a myriad ways, Clapton is still playing like he did in the 70s.
After you said the words Buddy Rich your video went to shit.
Neil was the perfect drummer for Rush. As a 59 year old drummer myself, I recognize there are hundreds of drummers with more technical skills. So fucking what. Neil wrote amazing drum parts for one of the greatest prog rock bands ever. Watch black guys react to Rush songs, and they comment on how smooth his playing was, seamless transitions, in and out of time signatures without the average radio listener even knowing it was happening. Credit to Alex and Geddy as well.
I see where you might say he is overrated, in that there are Rush fans who aren't musicians and can't fathom that there are drummers out there with more skill....and for the record, there is no greatest drummer of all time
@@peterheckel7149 Funny, as a 66-year old life-long prog lover, I've never quite understood how Rush gets included under the prog umbrella, so hearing a statement like, "one of the prog rock bands ever" makes me recoil a bit. I've always appreciated Rush--especially for 2112 and "Subdivisions"--and for their instrumental skills--but never been won over by their music. Can't really explain it, either. It's just taste. Melody. Persona.
Thing about Charlie, he played basically the same stuff, night after night for about 60 years. That’s actually pretty amazing when you think about it, not easy to play so mind numbingly simple, exactly the same way for eternity. The fact the guy seemed to be pretty emotionally based also is no easy feat. I’m really living the fact I discovered your channel though man you are great!
I hate the internet haters that trash with all of their negativity because they are shielded behind a keyboard. That being said, even though I don't agree with your list, I can appreciate that you include a thoughtful, explaination that is non-aggressive. Thank you for not talking shit, just to talk shit. Now, I'd like to see your list of underated drummers. Rock on!🤙
Ian Paice stated ( at a drum clinic held in a Newcastle upon Tyne working men's club just before Deep Purple reformed ) that he preferred his solo from the later Made In Europe album because it was shorter and said everything he wanted to say .
I've been alarmingly fond of Paice since '68. (Here in Canada we often turned onto UK acts a little ahead of the US.) Yes, Made In Japan was an old-school showcasing set, great as it was. But the best bit about Ian Paice is that he attended a drum clinic at a Newcastle working men's club, what, 15 years into a career that average rock stars only dream of.
Made in Europe is one of my faves of DP along with Machine Head, In Rock and Burn. That is it for my in a nutshell.
Ian Paice is a big influence on me along with Cobham, Curt Cress and Steve Upton (Wishbone Ash)
@@SPY1964-LL Nice you mention Steve Upton!
@@jublaim Yes, Steve Upton is a brilliant player. Miles Copeland was Wishbone's manager, and they practiced at the family home. His little brother learned drums from Steve Upton, and started his own band called The Police. Stewart Copeland's crisp style comes from Wishbone. Small world. Both are great players. I love that crisp toppy drum sound, ridding the bell/crips closed hi hat work, just like Ian Paice. It cuts through the PA and loud guitars. Bill Bruford of YES also. Cheers Mate!
Love your vids. I'm not even a drummer, but that was so interesting and funny too! I admire how you are brave enough to make these highly controversial lists, but back it up your claims with thoughtful, well-argued, constructive criticism that clearly comes from an obviously deep knowledge of drummers and drumming. I also love the way that when you go into your 'rants' you sound just like Stewart Lee!
Jon Hiseman, you said his Name!!! What a fantastic Drummer.
And Barrie Barlow, The were the best
Great job, there is something to say about celebrity or playing on an iconic song that changed the direction of music that raises one to a different level. Kind of like there are plenty of nobody's out there that sang better than Sinatra, but that doesn't make him overrated.
@@stephendegges Either you have never listened to Frank Sinatra sing or you don't know what your talking about or both
Bonham once said his friend, Barriemore Barlowe was the best!
How about John Marshall , Keef Hartley as two of the best .
Dear Andy, in the Bundesliga - yes, I am talking about football - there is the club SC Freiburg and this club had the same manager for 14 years . This manager, Christian Streich, achieved extraordinary success, given the limited financial possibilities of this club. This manager was awarded Manager of the Year and he is without a doubt a fantastic manager. But he only managed this one club, which he had helped to become the club it is today. Some years ago Bayern München wanted to have him, but he was smart enough to say no. I think we can compare Christian Streich with Neil Peart as they blossomed only in one environment.
I am wondering why nobody ever talks about my absolute hero Jon Hiseman. Timekeeper, Storyteller on the drums, first class session drummer, leader of Colosseum and Tempest. Is he forgotten already? He influenced me a lot and I even got the chances to talk to him several times, what a great guy!
Fabulous drummer. His stuff with Barbara Thomson was fantastic.
Not only. She was sitting on his lap after a concert answering my questions. But: colosseum and also Tempest were extraordenary groups fusioning Rock and Jazz in a very sophisticated way. They even influenced Bans like Chicago (Jon told me himself). Colosseum nevertheless one of the best bands ever!
With Ginger, it would be funny to see how he is ranked by those who never heard him speak versus those who have heard him be so self-congratulatory that you can't escape the urge to humble him.
He was a lot more humble on old 60s/70s interviews i've read. Probably always an asshole, but at some point later on he completely lost the plot.
Ringo Starr failed miserably on "Revolution 9". Gave the song no foundation or direction.
Not to mention his dismal performance on 'She's Leaving Home'; almost like he couldn't work out how to even hold his sticks...
I see what you did there :)
turn me on dead man
That’s because of the blisters on his fingers after playing Helter Skelter
And I didnt like his drumming on Eleanor Rigby too.
I hope this takes into account inventiveness, how closely playing fits the song/music, groove ability and the creation of a unique style/sound that is identifiable. Drumming is so much more than pure technical skills.
it'll be a load of clickbait shite.
very glad to not see Stewart copeland`s name on this list. As a non-connoisseur of the drumming intricacies and a non-musician, I have always been impressed by what he brought to the songs: The Hi-hat work, the syncopation, the fills, all the different influences from different musical genres, etc...all that blended in his own unique style. I love it.
As a fan of (real) music, and hence metal (both classic, modern, and extreme) I love your take and agree with it regarding the "cheating metal drummers" segment. I am a diehard death metal (thrash and a bit less on black metal) fan and other extreme subgenres of metal but I despise what has been done to the drums in modern metal.
I DO understand that most of these bands (by comparison to more pop or rock-oriented artists) are broke as a joke so affording good equipment is an issue. Regardless, it's egregious what drums sound like on most modern extreme metal albums. The bass (kick) drums sound like someone beating typewriter keys that have some bass pushed onto them. And half the time, you don't know if the drummer in said band on said recording ACTUALLY played the part as it sounds ON the recording because of how fast and extremely precise it is. Quantizing (or lining things up on a grid) is another nasty problem. When did rock or metal need to be so metronomically exact as to sound machine-like instead, oh I don't know -like a REAL human who practiced!
There is a death metal band, Dysmorphic Demiurge that I absolutely dig the hell out of. There are three guys: a vocalist who also plays some of the bass and two guitarists who play bass as well and split the drum programming duties. I defy anyone to listen to their three albums (of which, I own the first two) and say the drumming doesn't sound like a modern metal drummer as opposed to a program. I love the band so I'm not criticizing them for programming the drums. The problem I raise is you cannot tell the difference anymore between solid drum programming and a real drummer on modern extreme metal albums. And triggers, while being a great invention have destroyed extreme metal. Everyone sounds the SAME because of a huge library of sounds!
Guys like Vinnie Colaiuta, Jeff Porcaro (RIP), and Bernard Purdie (amongst absolutely countless others) didn't get to the level they are (or were) at by relying on studio gimmicks and production! They can (could) ALL play! I own Vinnie's first solo album and I admit when I got it in the 90's, I thought it was gonna be him ripping solo after chops-filled solo. But no, he played with finesse and restraint. He showed a level of dexterity and musicality that is unmatched. Dave Weckl who is another PHENOMENAL player and isn't merely a drummer but a true musician practiced his butt off to get to the level he is at today! Even going through the issues he did in the 90s with his grip and getting Freddy Gruber to help him. Gavin Harrison, Billy Cobham, Jack DeJohnette, the late and still great Tony Williams, Sean Reinert, Gene Hoglan -I mean I could just list a ton more drummers but you get the point. ALL these guys got somewhere playing their asses off. Yeah, maybe some like Hoglan and the mighty George Kollias use triggers on their kicks (which I don't like) but regardless, they are massively talented (on Kollias' solo album, he plays most of the other rhythmic instruments, and has guests for solos and such).
Point is, triggering (especially in metal) is just a massive problem. You no longer hear well-tuned and well-recorded drums, you just hear some library catalog sound from a module or computer that some other drummer played on an egregiously overly quantized and gridded song. Let the drums be heard and tweak them in post but let them breathe. Let's hear the drummer, not the triggered sounds. And stop over-quantizing and matching everything up to a grid. Let some mistakes be heard. Or do 20 or 30 takes until you get it right (Master of Puppets/Black album, anyone?).
If anyone wants to hear a fantastic, chops filled but tasteful rock song, listen to Cozy Powell's "Killer" th-cam.com/video/oNeG9wcfcf0/w-d-xo.html. Just pure musicianship (from all parties) with some well tuned drums and a monster (and sadly lost) drummer.
While I may not agree with all points to the rest of your list, it is, after all, your opinion and this was a great video. Good post.
I think the best drum solo is Conundrum. Barriemore Barlow. Bursting out. Jethro Tull live 1978
He's my favourite drummer along with Terry Bozzio. Barlow's work on A Passion Play is on another level.
@@shaynewest8757 Did you get to see them live same night? same show circa1978 with U.K.
Fell in love with Barriemore Barlow when I was 10 1/2 years old seeing Jethro Tull in March 1975 at the Nassau Coliseum
My top 3 drummers are
1. Tony Williams
2. John Bonham
3. Barriemore Barlow
@@beboprichie Good stuff man!
Yes, lousy recording but one of my favorites ones as well!
I don’t see many drummers beside myself that hate drum solos. I’ve played semi professional for nearly 30 years and I’ve only played one. I got called out by the father of the groom, and I had to do what I had to do, but I hated it. I don’t even solo at home by myself. I always play with music. Even as a lifetime Neil Peart fan I don’t mind what you said about him. It is true that he’s the best Neil Peart. I think his strength was in his composition. His performances were amazing but the way he created drum parts instead of just playing the drums is what made him a legend.
I'm an old Drummer that also hates drum solos, self indulgent, wastes of time.
Never did did them when I was young and playing in bands, if I wanted to impress anyone or amuse myself I would just add military rolls (my 1st drum teacher made me learn them!) on the snare, while keeping a beat going to spice it up.
I'm really surprised Keith Moon isn't on this list! I don't think he's overrated, but everybody else does, lol.
Trust me he is he is he is😅
Very creative drummer. I love imagination over precision. Also Moon was an immediately recognizeable player, which is really tough to accomplish.
I agree.
@@garygomesvedicastrology Yeah, I think he and John were the best rhythm section in rock.
@@edljnehan2811
He took what Ringo Starr did with Pop drumming and flipped it on its head, gave it a couple kicks and stuck it on his 20 Tom Toms to bash away at. He also pioneered melodic drumming so
It's interesting about Peart. All you say is absolutely correct, and I think many drummers confuse their favourite drummer with the best drummer. The things about Peart's playing that makes him my favourite drummer is one of the aspects you mention - it's that he was a compositional drummer. How he thought about the drum parts that he put into Rush songs is an art all in itself, and he speaks to so many drummers for that reason alone. Certainly his playing was the touchstone for mine, but I would also say that improvisation is not my strong suit. I would be interested to hear your take on Jon Hiseman - a very similar drummer to Peart, but with stronger chops...
Bonham and Peart are not overrated…their accolades are deserved. These two drummers had the largest catalog of iconic fills and parts in Rock history. They are on the Mount Rushmore of Rock drummers, and hence cannot be overrated.
They're overrated.
do you even play drums?
@@charlesbritt842oh shit, silly me. I thought these were actors and as im not a silver screen critic i just couldnt put a face to the name, which i didnt know.
Duh- dum- crash!!
Even as a Rush fan, I have to agree with your point about Neil Peart never really drumming outside of Rush. Neil Peart did recognise his limitations. That's why he took drum tutoring from Freddie Gruber and later from Steve Erskine.
His drum solos did change from night to night. I have a few bootlegs and it is apparent on shows about a month apart. It would be nice if Rush released more of their live shows. But again your point about not improvising is valid. When he incorporated changes he would add or remove sections whilst rehearsing before the show. He mentions that in the 'Rush in Rio' DVD.
I'm glad that someone else doesn't rate "Toad" or "Moby Dick".
Vertical Horizon and Jeff Berlin are places you can find Neil, not doing Rush. The Jeff Berlin stuff is ... real lame though.
Peter Erskine (Weather Report). Yes, Neil wanted to grow and had good taste. I discovered Rush in 1976..wow...
Back in the '70's, the obligatory 20 minute drum solo usually coincided with lining up to have a pee.
I don't know of many serious Rush fans that think Neil was technically the best drummer in the world. A lot of casual ones will say such things, but similar people will tell you Eddie Van Halen is the best guitarist ever. Even Neil admitted he realized his own limitations by being a rock-only drummer. I do know a lot of Rush fans consider him one of the best drum composers in rock. There are lots of nuances to his drum parts which often go overlooked.
As for technical chops, it's a bit of a muddy water. No matter who you name there will always be some guy who will name some session player or some jazz-funk-disco-punk-fusion player the general public has never heard of (or Ringo Starr) who will presumably blow away whomever you named.
One of the things you come to realize about music is it's all just notes. Most any talented musician can play anything by any other talented musician given enough practice. The genius is how the notes are put together and phrased.
Certainly Neil was one of the most influential rock drummers. Certainly he inspired many drummers. Certainly he was appreciated by his peers. For those reasons alone, it's hard to imagine him not being on a list of "greatest rock drummers" whether he was technically at the top or not.
And of course he had an ace-in-the-hole: he was undeniably the greatest lyricist drummer to walk the face of the Earth.
Christian Vander
Rush stands out in the Pantheon because of their compositions as a whole, not because of their solo abilities. Also, because of their curiosity and desire to evolve.
I loved Simon Kirke with Bad Co., before I even knew that Free had come first. He has the HARDEST sounding snare stroke, absolute granite. But not from physical effort, having watched old Free videos, but from what I take (as a non drummer) to be his dead-on timing and pocket feel.
Great use of his wrist and rim shots.
Will you make a vid about Keith Moon? Interested to hear your take
I suppose one could make the case that any musician (with a few possible exceptions) who is highly rated would likely fall into the category of being overrated (would this video be near the top of the most overrated videos about overrating - it's like an Escher sketch!). So, by virtue of that, anybody that's rated at all runs the risk of being overrated as it's all about personal opinion (use of the Superiometer nothwithstanding). I think this is a good effort, Captain Andy - you're giving us a little more personal passion and a little less glibness - if practice makes perfect, your practice is getting better all the time! How about a video on the 10 Most Overrated Overratings? Cheers!
Bach is correctly rated, as is Shakespeare, Michelangelo and any of the stellar greats.
are
Good video. I think a big reason that Karen Carpenter is overrated today is because her story is so compelling. I see some serious justice in the girl who loved drumming and was told that girls could only be singers being given a bit more than her due as a drummer 40 years after her death. I'm kind of reluctant to take that away from her.
Mmmm Karen Carpenter.....that's why Hal Blaine played on all the Carpenter drum tracks. There's a reason for that.
Thing is i don't think she ever aspired to be a top 10 drummer and i don't think she considered herself amazing. She liked playing .
@@regaltip8A He didn't need multiple takes, time was expensive. Same thing when he did the Beach Boys records. Great studio guy.
@@regaltip8A Really? I never read that anywhere! I guess if Bernard Purdy played all the drum parts on the later Beatles albums, anything could be true.
Beautiful voice
Man, I would love to hear more about Steve Gadd an exploration on his sessions and what he played
Steve Gadd is phenomenal. Two of his greats are "Late In The Evening" and "Fifty Ways To Leave Your Lover" by Paul Simon. Gadd is a metronome and yet plays with incredible feel.
Also Aja by Steely Dan - one of the great drumming tracks ever, in my humble.
@@stattonz1 Andy commented on it in a video abour overrated bands or albums, I cant remember. The argument was that yea, Aja is great, but Gadd was playing like this on many records. This is what sparked my interest to find more Gadd sessions, cause I was astonished by this drum solo for a long time, but I couldn't move pass it.
A lot of this, as Andy points out, is us stating our preferences in reaction to Andy. I tend to focus on lesser known drummers because they need the publicity (even if they have passed on). For instance, I love Drumbo, Robert Williams, Pip Pyle, Gary Husband (fantastic), Art Tripp, Jon Hiseman, Brian Davison, Robert Wyatt, Mani Neumaier, and Guy Evans, among others, because they are very unique drummers and a bit underrecognized.
All the drummers mentioned are experts in their areas.
The amount of shit people write in the comment section on youtube is astounding. Grown adults who cant stand someone they dont even know having a different opinion then them.
He says what he thinks, we can say what we think. It’s all good.
Typical comment section.
Brilliant stuff Andy, entertaining, actually pretty spot on, but always remaining respectful!!
Congratulations Andy. This was, by a country mile, the most entertaining top 10 list I've watched.
I don't know what made me laugh most - "most over-rated ... by Ginger Baker" or the imagined conversation between the Brummie techies recording Bill Ward's drums. Bonham's tympani discussion was another highlight. In the end it's imagining the evangelical fans of Rush (is there any other type) suffering apoplexy at your heretical conclusion that has me laughing hardest.
As for Karen Carpenter? Who cares about her drumming when you hear that voice?
Saw Cindy Blackmon (Santana) twice; very impressive!
th-cam.com/video/B_SmweY-X08/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LDr_rzKg5DbZGI6h
If Cindy in the modern Tony Williams, Senri Kawaguchi is the modern Billy Cobham. Both are fantastic players.
Check out Cindy live with Jean-Paul Bourelly.
Terry Lynn Carrington is better no contest
She's not a modern Tony Williams, certainly.
He makes very valid points and I agree with 99% with what he's saying. Especially at 26:29-30:03 about Chad Smith. Chad Smith has very sloppy technique and is incredibly overrated. I've never understood why people go ga-ga over his playing. And also at 30:25-34:15 about Ginger Baker. Incredibly overrated.
YES! Bill Ward could swing like Art Blakey!
Yooo im glad you mentioned Narada Michael Walden. His work on Visions of the emerald beyond is insaneeeeee.
absolutely insane...only him could fill Billy´s drums in MO
Brilliant discussion Andy, you are right on the money. I think seasoned drummers, and musicians in general, know that the typical "greatest drummer" rankings lists are meant for non-musicians and people who haven't truly devoted countless hours to listening to a variety of drummers. You have the pedigree and knowledge to explain why these usual suspects are overrated, and I couldn't agree more with your reasoning.
Yeah you have destroyed 50 years of drummers magazines polls😂😂
100% agree with your observations about session drummers vs show-ponies. For that reason, I'll mention the totally unflashy but rock solid Dave Mattacks.
The truth is that these top lists of best drummers (and instrumentalists in general) are massively influenced by the bands and albums that the drummer is involved in. They are iconic bands and albums and the drummer does an excellent job so the tendency is one to say "he's the best drummer in the world!". And the same happens with excellent drummers who weren't involved with such iconic bands or albums, and it's (unfortunately) normal for them to be forgotten from these top lists.
Oh my God, that was
amusing! I can't tell you how early on in your video that I knew Neil Peart was going to be number one. How right you are. Neal was probably the most influential drummer I listened to when I was a teenager and he definitely shaped my playing greatly, but when you watch his technique, it's really not very good. Compare him to an Ian Paice, or a Dave Weckl, or a Vinny Colaiuta and it just doesn't even compare. I mean they're not even in the same worlds. He was perfect for the music that he was playing with his band mates, but he didn't exactly have chops in the same way so many other guys have chops. If you listen to interviews with him, he kind of knows it as well and I think he's embarrassed to take the amount of credit that he has been given. I still talk to so many guys about Neil and they think he is the greatest and unfortunately, they just don't really know what technique is and how it shows up in drumming and they can't really appreciate it because they can't really see it. I also agree with you, Ian Paice was the greatest! Your video was a little harsh, but it certainly was entertaining!
The people who put Chad Smith atop best funk drummers lists are likely the same ones who say Flea is the greatest funk bassist and the RHCP are the greatest of funk bands i.e. people who appear to know sweet FA about real funk. When I listened to metal as a teen I was always way more impressed with Ian Paice than Bonzo.. 100% agree re You Tube/Instagram drummers. Same goes for YT bedroom guitar and bass players, who seem to be all about working the algorithim.
Agreed....Paice was always far more impressive than Bonham.
IAN PAICE is the greatest one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@joaoluisbufaical994 Absolutely! Without a doubt, the best!
I'm with you on Ginger Baker - for all his self-professed expertise, he just didn't hit the drums in an exciting way like Keith Moon (who he dissed in interviews). Totally agree that Bill Ward was underrated too - he could combine heft with finesse, inventiveness and experimentation without being flash. For instance, the unexpected Caribbean-style drum and percussion interlude in the middle of Supernaut - it works well within the arrangement of the song and doesn't overpower it and yet it is still experimental, bringing in a style from another genre. Simon Kirke is a good example of a drummer where his feel really suits the songs - he is technically good but not an attention-seeker. Not sure I agree with Bonham being on the list though but you have explained your reasons well!
"Get Off Of My Cloud" has one of the grooviest drum parts of all time.
And "Paint it Black."
Street Fighting Man's swagger !
I recently heard Charlie didn’t play on that…
We love you.
His drumming on Some Girls record is badass
Saw Physical Graffiti tour at MSG. Bonham’s drum solo with coordinated light show still remember it was awesome
I'm from Quebec but some of my favorite drummers are English or Scottish: Mark Brzezicki, Phil Gould and Mel Gaynor. I cannot overstate how good are! I rarely hear them being mentioned by drummers.
Buddy Rich just irritates me. There I’ve said it. Tremendous technique, but also just a show off. Doesn’t appeal to me in anyway. Give me someone like Ed Thigpen or Joe Morello anyday.
I remember seeing him on Johnny Carson and did find him a bit insufferable. But my attitude has softened some since then as that was what they brought the guy on to do. I have heard he could listen to a drum part and play it beat for beat from memory. If that is true then he was truly a freak.
Joe Morello👌🏻
When people say “Buddy is the best of all time” I cringe. Man I love Buddy, but he’s not even top 20 man. He’s the ultimate big band drummer, but aside from being fast he did fuck all for drumming
Krupa brought Tom toms to the forefront of drumming and took them from a niche instrument to a drum kit staple, Krupa walked so Buddy could abuse his snare drum and talk about how much he hates rock and country. Krupa always was more humble and progressive
Tony Williams os Miles ahead of in terms of vision and inovation. For me this is what turns a musician legendary, not virtuous solos and showmanship.
I think of buddy as a showman. He sold tickets with his speed. His music was not my cup of tea though. However, I still enjoy watches his amazing performances. I have a lot of respect for him
The thing about Ginger for me is that he might be overrated for what he did with Cream in the studio couse he did not over play on many tracks couse they did not need it but for the style he developed later he aged like a fine wine doing those african polyrythmn things and people only know his Cream stuff and say this is pretty simple and don't ever look into what he did later and it was mostly live drumsolos. He's under and overrated depending of the perspective you got. People say he overplayed and others say he played too simple :D
Yeah, I think most of his best playing with Cream was live. Disraeli Gears in particular has a real minimalist vibe to it, which is fine in its own way, but you can sort of tell it was recorded in only 2-3 days.
He also suffers from the crap typical mid-60s style stereo mixes on his drums for those first two Cream albums compared to the slightly later, better recorded players. The mono original is really the only true way to hear Fresh Cream without it being stripped of power and balance.
For guitar led heavy/psych rock I think his best playing in the studio was with the three Baker Gurvitz Army albums and Masters of Reality.
Neil Peart is #1, but Keith Moon appears nowhere on your list? Come on, man.
I never saw anything special with Keith Moon's drumming.
Keith Moon is underrated (for his drumming) in a way. He played differently from all of the other drummers of his era. He wasn't technical or structured, but what he had that no one else had, was that he was hard to imitate. I can play a Bill Ward beat or a John Bonham beat, and I think you'd agree that it basically sounds the same. I don't think I could play a Keith Moon part and make it sound like him, he was just too chaotic and random. So for that, I think he's underrated, not overrated.
@@Cedric_Harris Interesting comment. Chaotic and random are what I didn't like about his playing but ironically, I like a lot of the Who's songs so who am I to say he wasn't a good drummer? He obviously was I just wasn't a fan of his style.
@@tommysonnier9848 I think I'm on the fence about whether I like his style or not. I never thought of him as very remarkable, but I listened to all of Who's Next a couple of weeks ago and was blown away by how great he fit the rest of the band. I definitely think Bonham was overrated though.
@@Cedric_Harris Yes. I said the same thing. His solos were chaotic but the Who's songs were really good.
The YT video of Greyson Nekrutman playing to Caravan for 13 minutes is pretty amazing. I just recently came across it. Some of the commenters comparing him to Buddy Rich.
Thank you for Buddy Rich on the list !
This isn't an "overrated" review, it's you personal opinion on what drummers should or shouldn't do.
So what you’re saying is… this is HIS list of overrated drummers. Got it 😜
@@Bartolucci711 he's complaining about what some drummers do that he doesn't like. There's no discussion of talent.
@@lobserve1 mostly just trolling you ;)
@@lobserve1 It's all absurd anyway. Get a grip.
@@Frip36 Would that be a traditional or a match grip?
I just saw the first one. Oh Andy.
I gasped!
I always liked the drummers who did most with least, Simon Kirke (Free Bad Company) Ric Lee (TYA) Bill Ward has to be the Least Overrated on the planet, if you catch my drift
Yes sir! Ric Lee “Cricklewood Green” TYA
Your comment makes me think of the late great Mr Charlie Watts❤ I always said he did so much with so little😂
Hey, do you play LPs much? Hope you have a nice system and good turntable.
When you do your underrated jazz drummers I hope Joe Morello makes the list
Joe Chambers as well
I nominate Andy Edwards
Word
@@thomasrichmond2413 How highly rated is he?
@@progperljungman8218 ask him
Here here!
Seriously. This guy's a hack.
😂I love Gingers solo's. I think they always tell a story. Loved his trio with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden. I could listen to him play 12/8 African style beats all day.
I agree that his dismissal of other drummers came from a place of insecurity.
Enjoyed the video!
Ginger rated Bill and Charlie and Bill thought he swung for what its worth .
@@victorpearson1418 I was just reading a short excerpt of Bill Frisell describing the first sessions with Ginger. It seemed like one of the moments where Ginger was truly happy musically. Bill Frisell was a massive Cream fan and to him he said Ginger's playing was already in his DNA so I think it was a big thrill for him to play with Ginger and Charlie, who was also one of his heros.
Ive heard some people say Warren Cann of Ultravox is overrated. I completely disagree. He is a great drummer and he also innovative in drum programming and sounds
So great they sacked him.
Hi Warren!
Warren was a shed builder at best
I remember seeing a TV interview with Charlie Watts from at least 25 years ago. He was asked which Stones songs have his favorite drum playing. He said the ones a studio drummer played on. But, ARRRGH! Not Buddy Rich! Who is the Bruce Lee of drumming!
There is always a lot of patter back and forth in the martial arts/MMA world about whether Bruce could actually fight a real opponent. Some movie a couple years even did a fantasy scene where a stunt man beats the shit out of Lee on the movie set. That doesn't matter! Bruce was the most beautiful fighter to watch of all time. Same with Buddy Rich. Watching and listening to him is magical like no one else. (Oh, wait a minute. That's Edwards' point. Buddy was a showman. Still, his tune 'Monster' from 1955 or 56 is breathtaking.)
And yet, everything this guy here (Andy) says is spot on and somehow incredibly thoughtful and intelligent.
Buddy Rich could have been rated #1. His superpower was taking the most amazing chops and making me lose all interest.
You make good arguments, sir. For example, all of Frank Zappa's drummers are better than those guys.
Jimmy Carl Black as well? ;-)
@@robertvetter1011 he was the indian of the group.
The usual blinkered comments of a Zappa fan.
When Zappa's worse drummer was Zappa himself, it leaves the door open. Maybe JCB was worse than Frank.
Blood Sugar Sex Magic was my entryway to funk, but it led me to Meters (and that to Neville Bro’s Mean Willie Green), and then to James Brown. Those drummers were BADASS, and those bands had the stank grooves
Ted McKenna! Amazing sound, underrated.
Had the pleasure of meeting and having a few pints with him. He watched me play. He knew the singer/ guitarist. We were a two piece at the time. Id be lying if I said it was not nerve racking to play in front of a drumming legend but he made the experience great. He was particularly good at letting me know where my weaknesses where, and what I needed to improve without being obvious or rude. Which wouldn't really matter if he did. I know my limitations and I have an odd setup where I am left handed but play a right handed set up, which he did seem to appreciate. He had a limitless amount of stories but I didn't want him to bombard him with questions. I knew he did just fill in for the Rezillos so we talked about that. And he loved talking about the punk and ska stuff. He said he had great fun with Buster Blood vessel with Bad Manners in particular. Great guy. The last thing he said to me was, shouting my name, and saying "keep f*cking battering them drums" Wish I met him more often. He passed away a year or two later.
What's your opinion on Don Brewer of GFR ?
Please ...
I think the thing with with Bohnam is not only his early death but rather how often "When the Levee Breaks" was and is sampled.
The situation with Neil Peart is the same as with Steve Howe on guitar. When Guthrie Govan filled in on guitar in Asia there were all these old fans that claimed in all seriousness that Steve could outplay Guthrie. You can like Steve’s playing more but to claim Steve Howe has better technique than Guthrie Govan…if you believe that you can believe anything.
#10: Buddy had astonishing tricks. And he swung his ass off. But he embarrassed himself when he tried to go beyond his genre. #9: Internet drummers are like the street drummers in New York. They have a few cool beats yet couldn't play a gig. #8: Karen Carpenter is fine. She actually started those sparse fills with the small single head toms that Hal Blaine inherited. But, come on...she's an amazing singer. #7: Funny thing about Tayor. I originally thought he was too heavy handed, but it was perfect for Queen. He's no genius, but I think he was an integral part of the band. #6: Charlie Watts-- Yeah. people want to praise him because he's a long time member of an iconic band. But, let's face it -- he's quite mediocre. #5: Metal drummers. Tons of chops. That's it. #4 Chad Smith is a great groove player with a great sound but he's basically Don Brewer II. #3: Ginger was an essential element to Cream's sound. His primal sloppiness worked with Bruce's jazzy sloppiness very well. He brought the role of the drummer to the forefront. I'll give him that. #2 John Bonham influenced every drummer who followed. Nobody used the bass drum like him prior to him. He's important. #1: Neil Peart The reason he sucks at jazz is because he's so strict, rigid, solid and very "quantized" sounding. It's ANTI swing. But it's great for RUSH. Very musical. I'd add Louie Bellson as the most overrated. His swing was stiff and his solos were all the same. And he never told a story with his solos. It was just wankery. Nice guy though.
Buddy had weak feet.
Charlie Watts might be "mediocre" but he has a very distinct and recognizable sound. Can't say that about most drummers. The only time I ever heard unreasonable praise heaped on him was when he passed away. Some people were going way overboard with the praise.
@@johanjotun1647 absolute rubbish- you really don't know what you're talking about
@@johanjotun1647 Not true. Sure, compared to modern day drummers, but listen to Buddy's footwork in his solos. Masterful phrasing. He was miles ahead of guys of his generation.
What the hell's wrong with Don Brewer?!
Chad smith absolutely deserves to be in the top handful of funk drummers.
The guy making this list is into chops and special techniques. That's not what i like about drumming and thats not what chad smith contributed to drumming. His drumming makes you want to shake your butt.
Too many drummers evaluate everything by technique and completely forget about songwriting. I say that someone can be just 'good' as far as technique, but if they write iconic drum parts that everyone wants to listen to, supports the song and inspires people to play, they can be the drum goat.
What do you think of JD Beck
10 underated drummer Rat Scabies...David Ruffy..Topper headon...Jet black...paul cook...Ringo...Charlie watts ,,,,Karen carpenter...Dru stix
Great list, but sorry Peart doesn't deserve to be on this list at all in my opinion. Why is it that he always gets crucified for not swinging more or playing more laid back? Does Omar Hakim or Steve Smith ever get called out for not playing more technical? Another favourite Neil gripe is that he plays the same way for every song. You mentioned that you like improvisation. Ok, so? Neil isn't that kind of a drummer. He gets negative points for that?
Peart to me took the best of Keith Moon, Michael Giles, Bill Bruford Phil Collins and Billy Cobham to create his own style. The fact that he played in a band that was incredibly popular meant that he was super influential to a lot of young drummers.
John Bonham on the other hand receives accolades for things he didn't create - his right foot not withstanding. You constantly hear about the "Bonham sound", which is laughable because it's really the "Carmine Appice sound". Appice got thrown under the bus long ago for that one. Obviously Zep is bigger than Vanilla Fudge, so...
Bonham should definitely be number one.
Keith Moon should have been on this list and definitely Lars Ulrich. If you want to talk about someone playing the same way, Chad Smith is the king.
I also agree that Ian Paice is a much better drummer than Bonham and is always overlooked.
If Andy put Moon on the list, in addition to Bonham and Peart, he'd have been band from TH-cam and England's thought police would be dragging him from his bed in the middle of the night. Andy is ballsy. He's not stupid. No Moon for you!
Phil Collins needs to be on the Top 10 Underrated Drummers list. The fact that he went on to be a massive Star that sang and wrote all his own music for decades, and in multiple genres from Blockbuster films, to pop-rock, to blue-eyed soul, to the "prog" stuff he did with Genesis, etc...He is an amazing talent and his son, Nick, seems to be eager to carry the mantel forward.
Check out his work in Brand X !!
Yep. He's an odd one because he is VERY well known for In the Air Tonight with that iconic gated drum break but most people have NO IDEA that one of their favorite drummers (just because of that part and some other radio-friendly stuff he's done) is ALSO ACTUALLY one of the VERY BEST drummers on Planet Earth, in a technical sense. Many of those people would be hesitant to tell an aficionado that they like Phil Collins' drumming because of that drum part. They would expect you to cringe and admonish them and would be surprised when you tell them that "Phil Collins is one of the best drummers that has ever lived and that is a fact". Hilarious but true.
He’s not underrated though. Everyone understands he’s one of the GOATs.
Rock drummers idolize John Bonham. John Bonham idolized Carmine Appice of Vanilla Fudge (and got the idea for the oversize bass drum from him). Appice idolized Dino Danelli of the Young Rascals (and got the idea for the oversize bass drum from him). To see a master drummer at work, check out the video showing the Rascals playing Good Loving live in their first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show.
Danelli was trained in jazz and was picked by Lionel Hampton to be the drummer of his big band when Danelli was in his mid-teens. Appice wasn't alone in his appreciation of Danelli's playing: all the rock drummers in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, etc., tried to play like him. (Look up the single Bad Apple by the Pilgrimage - the drummer clearly had Danelli's sound in mind.)
@@jotcarey Apparently John thought Barrie Barlow was the best rock drummer.
Dino was top notch .
Yes Dino was a really good influence 👏
I always love Appice and Bonham but my all time favorite was the late great Jim Gordon. Thanks for sharing
How about single stroke technicians like Thomas Lang and Mike Mangini?
On your anecdote regarding the Eric Marienthal album Crossroads, with that track you mentioned 'The Sun was in my Eyes' when i first heard it, i personally thought it was Weckl, not Vinnie. The drum sound, the fills, almost positive it was him. And i was surprised,as you were, to see it was Terri Lyne Carrington playing! She's amazing! And you're telling it like it is regarding Neil Peart, 100% agree!