Minimalism, The Aesthetics Of Wealth, & The Limits Of Buying Less
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Chelsea speaks with @TheMinimalists about minimalism, consumerism, and how not everyone can actually benefit from buying less.
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Oh boy, this is a wild contrast to TFD's normal content. Good on TFD and Chelsea give yourself a little treat for putting up with this boss bro hustle culture libertarian disaster.
Hahahaha "boss bro hustle culture libertarian disaster" is exactly what they are!
Lol
When he said “economically speaking, money is he reward for creating value.” THEN THE WORKERS SHOULD HAVE IT ALL
Right?! Like ooooh you almost got the point. ALMOST.
This. Absolutely this. Like when he said that I was like are you kidding me? Like you really are putting the blinders on to see how fucked it is.
EXACTLY!!! They were so frustrating to listen to. I hung in there, but ultimately they didn't say anything other than what's already in their books, and didn't seem to be answering the questions in a genuine way.
Well, I did mention that our current market is exploitative in that it artificially hinders the poor and allows certain people to game the system via unfair policies. This comment was about the first step in teaching students how to understand what gets you paid in an entrepreneurial and employment context. It’s not a denial of systemic issues. We have to acknowledge both things, not one thing at the expense of everything else. There are real economic principles at work and we can leverage them to improve our lives. Also, there are real unfair policies at work that compromise our full potential for economic flourishing. I acknowledged both elements here.
But the workers wouldn’t create one penny of value without the capital that whoever hired them put into the business…
They were ducking and dodging Chelsea’s questions like George Bush dodging shoes. It’s giving corny and out of touch.
Also, that diversity “joke” was uncomfortable…
But kudos to Chelsea for sticking on them even when it was clear that they weren’t going to give any real answers, lol
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Super uncomfortable lol! I cringed so hard
Also they interrupted her and talked sooo much.
Yeah thiiiis
Seriously....they said a lot of words that barely made sense. Except for that awkward joke. It landed...horribly lol
Have you ever regretted getting rid of something? - "Just-in-case"-blah-di-blah. Did you or didn't you? Personal experience? Geez. Having regrets but no doubts? Wow, that's quite a dangerous mindset I'd say. But that was an example worth telling!
OMG. It was like, oh here a fun low hanging fruit question. And the answer was ANOTHER sermon! How was Chelsea not concussed after bashing her head against a table for that!
I'm so glad the manosphere never got to me deep. Unrelated this this, of course ;)
Same, real talk. Like it was good for like the type of guys that are about to “check out“ of life, and it gives them an opportunity to internalize and think more thoroughly. Are there than that is just echo chambers and a lot of brown nosing.
Like what good is “pick up artistry” when I’m already settled in with my young wife, and my two babies, making good bank, and being successful in my circles . All I see is just a bunch of grown men screeching into a microphone, and even though I am pretty confident in my position, just disagreeing with them or make them call me “beta Simp”
Are these guys politicians? Because they don't directly answer a single question. And when they do kind of answer a question, it's such a strangely vague response with no back bone that doesn't ever touch on systemic issues! Thank you for asking such interesting questions though! I hope you save them for someone willing to have an actual conversation.
Thanks for watching, send a Dm to the number above let's talk on WhatsApp .
Endeavour to reach out! 📩👆.
If you haven't had Shelbizzlee on, she would be great because she talks about minimalism from an eco-perspective. Less spiritual and individual, and more about the greater impacts of sustainability :)
Yes! I love her :)
Second this request!!!!
yessssss
yes, this would be great!
yes, Shelbizzlee!
I'm barely halfway, and I honestly can't finish. The questions aren't being answered directly, they're being used as starting off points to regurgitate older concepts and quotes we've already heard a thousand times. I can't listen to JFM blow smoke up his own arse anymore. His speech is so rehearsed, and just the way he gazes at the camera and pauses part way through his sentences to really "hit home" what he feels are such meaningful words...it just makes me cringe too much. I was really hoping this would be a casual, down to earth conversation, where they would directly respond to your questions Chelsea, lol. It's the same old same old, in my opinion. Thanks for trying, we appreciate you and TFD!
Edit - After thinking a bit more about some of the things said here, I have to say this episode had so many cringe worthy moments coming from TM, the diversity comment being most ridiculous imo. But the whole thing really just clarifies how out of touch they are when held up against the backdrop of current social issues. It's glaring.
The way TFD doesn't shy away from anything is so refreshing, and I really value your content.
Agreed
💯
This! It is all so rehearsed and repetitive…they have been sharing the exact same story for years. This was such a weird episode 😮
@@hunniebun6240 I agree with you! I'm also really tired of the lack of intersectionality in their content. That weird defensive comment "clarifying" that having TK with them isn't tokenism?!.....*cringe*
Yikes on the school choice comment. We need higher quality curriculum in our public schools, and to make working in our public schools a better experience for teachers and staff. There's no reason why schools in lower-income communities should be worse off than schools in higher-income neighborhoods. It is that way because of how the US funds schools with property taxes, instead of prioritizing schools in government budgets.
Totally agree! School choice is so often weaponized, we need to prioritize all public schools having the funding they need rather than allowing for parents to choose the sets of facts they believe in.
Personally, I subscribe to the Thomas Sowell view of culture defining school outcomes and culture. If you have a bunch of rich folks who don't expect and demand excellence from their educators and children, you will get bad schools.
I'm torn between not reading these comments until I'm done or preparing myself for the guest's cringe takes lol
exactlyyyy
@@michaelkovalsky4907 this has nothing to do with school funding
So often I find it hard to identify with men who preach extreme minimalism lifestyles because society holds them to such a different standard than women, in almost every way. There are so many women with minimalism TH-cam channels that also talk about navigating minimalism as women and/or with families. They would have been been a better fit.
1000000% this
I hate this so much. You divide sexes like all men are the same and are treated the same from "society". It's such a redundant mute point. You do know society is made of 4 billion women also? So who holds who to a standard? You think women aren't mean, strategic, or hold standards? Stop dividing sexes. It's so insulting and reductive. Who cares if the financial diet has men or women on? I say this and i can't stand these guys...but it's not because they have a penis...it's because of their repetitive cult like perspectives
For real, if a woman showed up with hair that looked as neglected as the brown haired man, she would not be taken seriously. TBH, same goes for Bernie Sanders. The female equivalent of him could be a professor, not get elected to public office at that level.
I agree! This conversation would be interesting with woc specifically! WOC can’t just show up looking any which way in business spaces, the micro and macro aggressions are real.
You sound like Jennifer Lawrence. Women are not victims.
This episode really gave me more "motivational speaker" vibes than actual diving deep into the relationship between consumerism, capitalism, and minimalism. Great questions on Chelsea's part, but the conversations had were just not at the analytical caliber I was hoping. A lot of nice-sounding ideologies about how letting go is an "art" poor people need to learn was probably the highlight of this.
These guys always say a lot of nothing lol
That is helpful to know! Gonna save this video for another day!
Was searching for a comment saying this. The questions were fantastic but I sometimes felt they skirted around getting into the meat of the answers and it ended up being a bit like they were repeating the same lines.
For context, I work with students from poorer backgrounds on a regular basis. For many of them, they are struggling with issues like mental health, bullying, peer pressure to engage in criminal activity, illiteracy, etc. And while the system issues are causing a lot of this, many of these students are looking for practical insights from the rare number of mentors they have on how to survive, get through the week, and find a reason to keep their heads up. I’d be willing to sit down for coffee with just about anyone and have a three hour conversation on the deeper issues of sociology, economics, and politics, but when I’m on the ground my students need encouragement, empathy, empowerment, and relationship-based education on how they can cultivate some agency in their troubled lives. So I tried to focus less on abstract political theories and more on what’s actually working in the hood to get more young people to a place where they can even afford to have the kind of higher level discussions about systems.
When it’s 4 of us sharing the conversation, it’s hard to go very deep because you get to make your initial point and it moves on. But I would have no problem coming back for a 1-on-1 to a deeper dive about the systemic issues I was only able to highlight here.
@@t.k.coleman5398 thanks for replying to this comment thread. Totally understand why you focus on those topics when speaking to students in schools etc. Sounds like you’re doing great work. I think viewers of this episode were just keen for you guys to delve into some deeper issues, which Chelsea did raise, but that seemed to be skimmed over a bit. You definitely touched on the systemic issues, which was great, and I wish you’d had a chance to elaborate. Appreciate it’s harder to get deep into things when the conversation isn’t one to one. Hopefully you’ll return to the show and get another chance.
Not sure what it is on how these guys are communicating but it is giving me evangelical vibes.
I was thinking the same thing! Their way of speaking is giving non-denom preacher vibes.
I agree. And, for what it’s worth, I was deeply evangelical when I was also deeply into minimalism, and I think the two really thrive together (though I didn’t see these guys until I was well into it myself, it was a Christian mommy blogger who exposed me to the idea of minimizing in the first place). I don’t know what to do with that knowledge, but it’s interesting to think about.
Totally agree, as soon as they started speaking I was like, hello?? That is the exact cadence and tone of a pastor
I came to the comments to see if anyone noticed this!
Yeh it’s the cadence of Millburn’s more scripted statements and the cool guy pastor vibes
I listened to this podcast on Spotify and I had to come to TH-cam to read the comments immediately. Y’all did NOT disappoint haha. I felt like the whole interview, Chelsea kept asking great questions that were answered with dodgy and vague replies. I think there’s just a lack of systemic oppression and hierarchies being acknowledged by these guys. I know that they are also fans of the Dave Ramsey universe, which can also explain their over emphasis on individualism and the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality. I think they mean well and I feel like if they took more of stance on acknowledging systemic oppression, I would be more willing to get behind their message. Great job on this interview, TFD, regardless of how well the guests answered your questions.
They were even dodging their own success. They got defensive about the t-shirts and really condescending about landing a contract with Netflix. They give the impression of success, but don’t want to claim it. It feels disingenuous.
Literally !! i came to the youtube to see if it was posted here so i could comment 😭
Agree. Chelsea asked great questions and seemed interested in fostering a back and forth but they felt oddly defensive in their responses, although they managed to avoid the tone itself being defensive.
The guy in the middle gave off huge billionaire bootlicker vibes.
Exactly the same. Ran here from listening to the podcast 😂
“To not be poor you need to learn to let go.” No, dude, what I need is the MATERIAL CONDITIONS to not be poor. ie access to healthcare, a sustainable workload, affordable housing, etc. my god
Completely agree, I wish they touched on the larger macro issues in our culture rather than just an individual approach
Yes, learning is good too of course, but how can you start with learning as important and then not questioj the structural processes which increase or undermine your access to an education???
@@JakeMyerz they always blame it on the individual because its easyer to sell things. Ironic
@@JakeMyerz that would require admitting that the system is rigged and these bros ain't about to do that
I rewinded that part because what?!?!
Hearing the way they talk to Chelsea has given me an ick I've never noticed before. It's reminding me too much of how men in the corporate world have talked over me in meetings or just bullshit around a direct question without giving a real answer.
this this this
they addressed everyone by name too much, it was aggressively polite.
long-haired guy's sister: you have a documentary on netflix. are you rich now?
long-haired guy: oh, honey, it does not work like that.
his response tell you all you need to know lol.
NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!
Agree! Intelligent, thought provoking questions that were not directly answered, rather they used catch phrases and repeated the same old stuff they always talk about. I get the same thing in corporate america - sittling in meetings all day long where leadership (i.e., the "experts") dodge questions and rely on jargon and catch phrases.
I feel like they talk about minimalism the way someone writes an essay the night before it’s due.
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Same. Round about answers that don't fully answer the question. Some questions felt unanswered as if they didn't understand it at all.
Also the one guy quoted the book Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn without attribution (“buying stuff we don’t need to impress people we haven’t met”)
I used to follow the minimalists but stopped a few years ago and WOW do I see so much better through their bullshit now that started the minute they started talking. They have zero new perspectives or new stories since they started years ago and the nuance of Chelsea's questions consistently went completely over their head. Every answer sounds like they're just playing back a recording of something that slightly fits the question. Almost impressive how they didn't grow at all in at least 5 years.
I 100% agree Chelsea's questions requiring nuanced discussions on a variety of matters definitely went straight over there heads .I also used to watch them and stopped after a month because I found their content lacked depth or any change.
Agreed. You should watch Drew Gooden's video critique of The Minimalists, it's pretty funny.
@@coffeebean3627 that's gonna be the next on my list. I need a palate cleanse
Ditto. I went hard into minimalism when I first started, now I just stick to shelbizzle and Madeline Olivia. They're a far more realistic type of minimalism. Like a be mindful of what you buy, but have what you want in your life. If you want a 100 books because thats what makes you happy, then have them.
Yeah... Growth is not minimalistic enough for them to engage in.
I had to stop after he essentially said you can work your way out of poverty… sometimes you in fact can’t girlboss your way out of things and my simple pleasures once a week won’t actually make that much more of a difference
All they are offering is a self help type inspiration. They don’t have a product, it’s a lifestyle.
I don’t believe you can work your work out poverty as if work is some kind of guarantee that promises you wealth no matter what. I talked about work as one of the elements in our locus of control. And I talked about how I work with students to teach them the economic principles that can optimize their ability to work smarter. This is something that can improve everyone’s life, but like I said on the show…that doesn’t mean everything will be easy nor does it mean there are no systemic issues you have to deal with.
I really do think these guys have good intentions, but they just truly don’t seem to understand the lived experience of so many people. Their perspectives felt like a sermon or self help speech to me, not a real conversation about the privilege of minimalism. They way they cut you off multiple times also showed that these were rehearsed answers. This video is such a great example of why I’m so happy TFD exists. This is one of the only channels that speaks bluntly about finances, inequality, and privilege. I get so tired of the toxic positivity of male dominated podcasts and channels like theirs.
I think they used to have good intentions when they started this! But I would argue that at this point they're acting in a manner too aligned with their own self-interest that i kind of doubt that their intentions are good. Wealth can do that to people, but you can only blatantly ignore your privilege when it's clearly pointed out to you so many times.
Agreed. I do think they have good intentions, but it's like they stopped digging into the issues they experienced once they found a good 'conclusion' that worked for them and that people praised (and was lucrative). They've repeated that conclusion so many times, that it 100% reads like a sermon. I don't believe they're malintentioned, and I do think their message is positive for some people at certain moments of their lives. It's just so disappointing that they just stopped short of continuing to dig into things, learn, and listen so long ago.
I absolutely do not think that they have good intentions. I think they have sought out and succeeded in marketing themselves as the faces of (what was at the time) a new movement. They've continued to spout the same aged, not-deeply-considered statements for years now. I'm disappointed to have seen them here on this channel.
I don't think they have good or bad intentions and maybe that's a problem in itself. I think they're just here to make money and a name for themselves, regardless of what jibberish they have to serve. Yeah, it's a problem in itself... Serving empty catch phrases to your audience and suggestions they should live this way...
@Nayeli Perez
"I do think they have good intentions, but it's like they stopped digging into the issues they experienced once they found a good 'conclusion' that worked for them and that people praised (and was lucrative)"
Then it's not good intentions it's just exploitative... Repeating the same empty message because it's lucrative (because people try to follow it even though it's empty) is exploitative. Exploiting the willingness of people to follow an empty message to make money and clout isn't for the benefit of anyone but themselves. And it can actually be detrimental to the "followers" chasing nothingness and blaming themselves for it not working. It's clearly not coming from good intentions. Maybe at the very begining but not now.
I'm a practicing minimalist myself, and man was I disappointed the more I listened. They just danced around the questions repeating the same things. I think you're questions were very interesting, if only someone with more creative thought would have answered them.
I used to love their podcasts 3-4 years ago when I first discovered them but you are absolutely right that they just keep repeating the same things & they have ever since they started their brand… So much actual conversation dipped but repeating the same message over & over, just in different words.
I have followed Josh and Ryan off and on for years now. I am so tired of hearing them rehash the exact same language over and over again in their documentaries, books, lectures, podcast, interviews, etc. The lack of authenticity is astounding; it sounds so rote. I appreciate Chelsea trying to push them, but man, it all just sounds like a marketing machine rather than answers to thoughtful questions.
Yes! I totally agree.
I swear, all the way up in Canada, I heard the collective sigh the ladies let out when the cameras stopped rolling.
LOL
😂
What?
@@Sarah1R1 - Sigh of exasperation (or of relief bc the interview over). These guys are dolts.
Ohh, that’s what that sound was! 🍁
Glad this episode exists despite it being very difficult to watch because it puts The Minimalists on full display. I used to be a fan of the two of them until they kept cycling through the same individualistic points. If the conversation isn't evolving and you are no longer approaching the topic of minimalism from new angles or with nuance, why keep going? It felt as though they tried to come onto the podcast to debunk Chelsea's points, but it seemed as though they were talking to their own audience and had no interest in actual dialogue. What does community driven minimalism or anti consumerism look like? What happens after I get rid of the things that don't make me happy? How can a community of people work together to address this "mental clutter"?
I think many of us have evolved to be more critical of our personal consumption, especially because minimalism had its boom a few years ago. We have passed the point of the personal anecdotes of looking around and noticing all of the stuff making us miserable. The conversation has to evolve from there and these guys just don't seem to have an interest in doing that.
Thanks for watching, send a Dm to the number above let's talk on WhatsApp .
Endeavour to reach out! 📩👆.
For real. I think they are still going bc the money is rolling in.
The Minimalists frustrate me in a lot of ways. As others have said in the comments section, I much prefer Marie Kondo's method, which feels so much more personalized (and actionable!), as well as compassionate and based on joy rather than rules or moral high grounds.
Minimalism is not based on rules or moral high grounds. It's based on finding what is meaningful to you - exactly like Marie Kondo. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean you need to dismiss it.
I do not think Marie Kondo's message is minimalism. She seems like the majority of women who are talking about decluttering, systems, and organizing. She is talking about what sparks joy and not going that deep. I think certain types of people are drawn to her method because they are operating from more feelings-based and not logic and do not want to go into a place of substance internally.
I'm just 25 min in, but man these guys are doing their best to talk about consumerism, debt, etc without taking an actual stance on capitalism or class...
Yeah I actually greatly dislike these guys. They make money talking about minimalism and just say the same thing over and over and their content very much have pitched minimalism as a individual choice.
Idk, their content gives me the sketch/Culty vibes. I’ve seen a decent amount of videos criticizing them too that I agree with.
@@thalmorbiznitch4028 Okay I finished it, I hate them, with passion, wow
It's always important to watch an entire video before coming to a conclusion like this. They talked a lot about how they believe consumerism intersects with capitalism, particularly TK. TK also seemed to align with Chelsea's criticisms of capitalism in that unregulated capitalism benefits the ultra wealthy and exploits the poor. I personally am anti capitalist, I don't believe that capitalism is the optimal way to organize resources and society however I can appreciate the importance of what TK is saying to a greater society. Just being able to question capitalism as a natural given is a very big step for most people particularly in the US.
@@TheMrsarahanne90 You see I don't really agree with that because we've been hearing that notion of capitalism since it's conception "if ony it worked well" whilst the structure is about profit over everything. So when he repeats these points too me it rings disingenuous. He then said he doesn't believe there is an unethical ammount of wealth to own, and equates wealth to value of services/product given, so like which is it? Because if he acknowledges the inequity and the issues with this capitalism, how can he think all wealth produced is "good"? or at least not morally wrong (talking about billionaires).
TRULY, these guys are so avoidant when asked direct questions about policies or capitalism!
I’m only 45 minutes in but the privilege of these men seems to be really blinding them to the realities of class differences and some of the points that Chelsea has made. They seem to be speaking many good points but it misses accepting the realities of poverty.
Just wait for the answer at 52:00 lol
@@TheWillRogers wtf is up with them :O
@@happytofu5 My take is that they're just self-help gurus.
@@TheWillRogers that’s absolutely what they are. Their sole focus and income is…minimalism. It gives “making success from selling courses in how to build success” vibes
@@TheWillRogers who are just selling what ever.
I followed these guys a few years ago and I did learn a few things about intentionality and meaningful living. But in the last couple years, I don't find they provide any value or novelty in their discourse that I didn't already gain years ago. And in fact, I now find them preachy by repeating the same catch phrases and anecdotes and I find I'm gravitating more towards conversations about what and how individual struggles mean on a social level.
I try to not bash things I once gained value from but wow they were robotic and canned and just have a conversation for fuck's sake.
Also, the whole advertisements suck thing, sure ads are annoying but then they put their maximal episodes behind a pay wall and hide that by virtue signaling that they're too good for ads. Stop trying to pretend you're too good for money.
Literally! I haven't followed these guys, but I have used different tools of minimalism over the years, I was really excited for a productive conversation about the intersection of minimalism and financial responsibility on a large scale as well as an individual level. That is NOT what we got. Very disappointing.
100% agree. i watched their documentary when it first came out and a lot of what they said about living with intentionality is what i appreciated. now it just feels largely icky because i've learned that my desire to live intentionally doesn't mean i have to go without.
Totally agree. I had listened to their podcast from the start, and I stopped around the time Josh shared that he takes the labels off his TOMS shoes so folks won't know what brand he's wearing. I remember thinking, "But you'll share the brand with tons of podcast listeners? Like way more people than would see your shoes in Missoula, MT?" Around the same time they started talking really negatively/dismissively about Missoula (a place I love) and I heard from one of their local group coordinators that they had basically just blown him off when they went to the city he lived in while on a speaking tour. They definitely got too big for their britches.
I had the same reaction. I felt they were scripted and working to hard to stick to their brand message and it didn't work for a podcast format. I followed these guys a few years ago and mid-way through watching this was thinking theres something off about this "conversation"
Many times during this interview, I wanted to say to the screen, "just answer the question!"
What an absolute privilege to acquire all the things that people dream of (house with more bathrooms than people, etc) only to have/make the choice the choice to reject them and STILL use that to make money. Absurd.
How can anyone compare rich people hoarding wealth to poor people going without stuff??? 😂😂😂 I can’t.
On the show, I actually said we shouldn’t try to compare those things. I talked about how letting go is only beneficial if you’re letting go of something that’s holding you back. I mentioned that this process has to look different for everyone based on where they are.
“We can’t demonize wealth” - hm, can’t we tho?
Yeah, they got the wrong crowd for that bs lol
im absolutely going to deamonise billionaires
@@lunarose9 💜
@@lunarose9 100%!!!!!!
XD
Just the fact that one of them showed up without bothering to brush his hair demonstrates that they have no idea what Chelsea is talking about when she suggests that people spend money on their clothes, etc to communicate competence. I'd love to see it the other way around, Chelsea in sweatshirt, no makeup and just woke up hair and the three of them in suits. Maybe that would communicate the point. These guys are an irritation.
the 2 white guys have big "guy in your film elective in undergrad" energy which is to say, I hate it
It's definitely giving "privilege of someone given the benefit of the doubt a lot." Poor Ryan. He doesn't/didn't usually look that frizzy in previous videos. I think maybe he took a shower actually but didn't use any conditioner because that's how my (bleached) hair looks after a shower and air dry with no conditioner. 😆
I swear this has to be a cultural thing I don't understand. The need to own expensive clothes, to have an expensive car or expensive watch, I cannot conceptualize in my head a world that would care or acknowledge that what someone owns as the measure of success. From my first job working minimum wage all the way through to my current job, I've never shown up to an interview in more than a polo shirt and slacks. The most expensive or annoying item of clothing I had to buy for work was a dress shirt worth about $40. When I watch videos where people describe the issues with keeping up appearances and outwardly displaying success I honestly feel like I'm through the looking glass, observing a world I do not understand. Maybe someone can help me understand...
If you are white and male yeah you can show up to any interview and any job and be assumed to be competent and be given respect wearing just a polo. Unfortunately women and people of color don’t have the luxury to just show up being “themselves” in a polo shirt. We have to work harder, dress sharper, and show results to actually be given respect and considered competent.
@@Sony4Ever321 Genuinely, this might be the reason, but even this feels alien to me. I've been in charge of interviewing for new positions before and these types of thoughts never cross my mind. This could be a result of the type of jobs I've had and work I've done in the past, but I have had jobs in offices where I was the only guy and this still didn't happen. It's still possible I've been considerably lucky not only with my career but with the women I've worked with, and I know this toxicity exists because people keep talking about it and their experiences, but on a fundamental level, I do not understand the type of thinking that leads to this type of generalized persecution - that people would be judgemental like this, it boggles the mind.
I'm not busy because I've allowed my life to get "out of control." I'm busy because I'm a full-time college student who has to work in a shitty workplace market to pay my rent and scrape by while I claw my way to a better future! Eff off with this victim blaming.
Yeah, I was listening to this while hand-washing dishes (I am a major consumer because I want a dishwasher) before working on a grad paper, so I can potentially make more money so I can get a dishwasher. My busy "out of control" is working towards a better life (with a dishwasher, and a bed instead of a futon).
Who the heck is their audience?? Because the only people who can afford to live like this can afford to make mistakes.
@@hannahm5298 Libertaran young bros
Yeah I’m not busy because I lack control over my life. I’m busy because I’m a single mom with kids in two different schools to meet their learning needs, I work full time in a hybrid job, I have a dog and I keep space in my life for hobbies and relationships. My time is stretched thin not because my life is out of control but because my life is full.
Exactly. Life has changed drastically for most people during the last 5 years but the Minimalists are still living like it's 2015. Really out of touch.
If I had too much stuff from a high paying job, becoming a minimalist by throwing stuff out would be easy, lol. I think this is the wrong audience. They should talk to bored millionaires.
I honestly don't like these guys take on minimalism. Some of their ideas I agree with: learning to redefine what we think is successful and valuable. But I really hate the "entrepreneur" discourse meshed up with minimalism. Entrepreneurship is about "the grind", is about working hard to get ahead of everyone else. It's about the individual. The figure of the hard working entrepreneur it's just another toxic capitalistic idea. It's honestly funny how these guys just avoid talking about the privilege, class and economic inequality.
They're Capitalism apology proves that minimalism is only a rebrand of surviving austerity.
I don’t really care about the labels. Saying “I hate capitalism” or “I love capitalism” isn’t what’s going to change the world. I care about the ideas, intentions, and incentives behind the labels. I was clear with Chelsea that I agreed with the criticisms of capitalism she made. I simply differed on my semantics (ie cronyism, corporatism). But we can use whatever label people wish. The point I made on the show, however, was that capitalism as she understood it was “rightly demonized.” I don’t recall defending evil and exploitation, but I do recall pointing out how our current economy unfairly disadvantages people through policies that have been gamified by many big players.
I totally get why TFD had these guys on and I do think it demonstrated ~a point~ about this flavor of minimalism being tone deaf to class consciousness, but I would love to see a "minimalist" guest whose political & economic ideologies are more aligned with TFD. I saw Shelbizleee or the AfroMinimalist suggested in some comments, I think that would make an interesting contrast to this episode.
she has a great youtube
*tone deaf, and yes I absolutely agree. They're completely out-of-touch. You can tell that they're too focused on sticking to the script (which they constantly repeat in every interview). This is why they dodged so many of Chelsea's questions, bc they don't have a prepared response, so we're being fed one big word salad of hollow platitudes instead.
Shelbizleee would be amazing (been watching her since her "dumpster diving" days!), but how completely even more amazing would be the AfroMinimalist because she doesn't already have a YT platform like Shelbizlee!
I think there is a major gender difference here. Male CEO can show up in a hoodie. Female CEO cannot.
These guys talk like life coaches and scammy gurus. I thank my dog because she pressed the remote as she knew I wasn't enjoying this ep. Hope the next guests talk like normal human beings like most of the guests do.
Thanks for watching, send a msg to the number above for insight and guidance. 👆
smart dogo!
I would love to hear Chelsea’s take on life coaches. That would just make my day.
Loving The Minimalists slander in the comments 😂These guys couldn't answer a single question Chelsea threw at them. And if I have to hear Josh and Ryan tell that goddamn origin story one more time, I'm going to throw my phone at the wall 😒
😂😂😂 same here!
The LAST response I expected to the softball question "What policy do you advocate for, which would help make strides decreasing consumerism?" is SCHOOL CHOICE? So out of left field.
Not sure if they're aware they sound like the embodiment of the problems Chelsea has with these minimalist influencers...
(I'm only 30 minutes in, but I highly doubt they'll suddenly discover class consciousness in the last half)
The guy quoted MILTON FRIEDMAN lol.
THIS
School choice the empty echo of all radical Chicago suburban parents. Yes the schools are bad but CHOICE ain't the answer for sure
To your last point: it almost makes it seem like this episode was secretly an exposé (and I'm about it) 😂
@@ashleythompson4436 This had to be a secret exposé! I honestly admire Chelsea's ability to stay composed through some of these answers she got.
I’m about to opt out of this interview but I want to continue for Chelsea. Excellent job Chelsea. I wish your guest actually answered you questions
6 days ago, there was an episode about Imposter Syndrome. It isn't an understatement that men typically don't feel Imposter Syndrome; and these guys are a reflection of that. There are a lot of Men who don't apologize for making a large amount of money to the extent that it comes off unattached to systemic societal failings.
Geezus, I cringed at the majority of their responses. They were definitely not ready to have a deeper conversation about minimalism intersecting with capitalism at the level Chelsea expected. They just focused on their feelings as post poor then rich corporate dudes. Who I'm sure after selling homes and belongings while "becoming minimalists"; were able to get a good return on those items.
This is also why after following a few people in the Finance space; I always count on and stick with Chelsea's or rather The TFD approach. Which is actually nuanced, honest and realistic.
Edit. Just wanted to add that I am a Male subscriber, as my username doesn't easily suggest my gender.
I'm only 30 minutes in and so super proud of our community. Just based on these comments almost everyone saw through their BS immediately, lol!
I got almost to the end without reading the comments; I am SO GLAD to see what people have commented!
I think that one of things you overlook is that yes, more wealthy people are wearing simpler clothing with smaller jewelry. However, someone who is high income in tech or finance might be wearing $500 jeans or a woman wearing a simple gold necklace with small stones that costs thousands of dollars even though it is very subtle. Look at clothes from the row or other similar brands. They are still spending, and still signaling to one another, it's just not as flashy.
I wear pretty much only plain tee shirts and don't own many of them coz 'minimalism' but I get holes in them in a couple months and have to replace. I feel like this is something don't talk about but when you own less things you wear them out faster. There is a cost involved one way or another. It's hard to feel glamorous in holey tee shirts, shoes that are worn through and threadbare knickers haha
They've done a video about this exact thing.
@@GeorgiaWilson99 have you ever repaired them? one of my smaller anti consumerist rebellions is darning. I even mended a hole in some jeans last night. its not as hard as it looks :)
@@GeorgiaWilson99 I own about ten T-shirts because of minimalism, and a large part of keep a minimal wardrobe is making sure you've got stuff that's going to last: Buy It For Life overlaps quite nicely with minimalism. In this case, American Apparel or Uniqlo make some excellent plain T-shirts that have lasted me for the last six years.
@@zenspeed404 I still wear some Petit Bateau t-shirts which I bought over 20 years ago, only line dried and also my grand-mother’s nightgowns which date at least 80 years back. All my bed and table linen is antique French linen, indestructible. And my Barbour jacket faithfully rewaxed each summer and patched if needed is 30 years old.
"it's crony capitalism and corporatism, not capitalism" as soon as I hear someone say anything resembling that phrase I feel comfortable disregarding anything they have to say about economics - it quickly shows me that their understanding of economics is only made up of baseless catchphrases. No one with a thorough understanding of economics could honestly say our economic problems are anything other than a natural outgrowth of the core principles of free market ideology.
Thank you so much for this comment. These guys are absolutely libertarians but that political ideology has so much baggage they won't commit to the label. Everything he said about 'crony capitalism' and 'school choice'. It's literally taking me back to arguing with libertarians on tumblr.
That struck me too.
If you think that capitalism means markets free of regulation then you have been misinformed by right wing ideology.
i swear i’ve heard the same minimalism origin story from these guys about twenty times… my eyes rolled so far back into my head 🙄 all they say seems to be a script and once again, minimalism without politics and the material conditions to even THINK about getting rid of things is such an empty priviledged concept! i went through a minimalism phase when i was about twenty and consumed a lot of their content. flash forward 7 years and their message remains exactly the same? lmao
right? I def see value in the Marie Kondo style of only owning what sparks joy but these guys feel like total grifters. Why do they speak with the cadence of a TED Talk when they’re supposed to be having a conversation? Why have they made multiple documentaries with the same purpose and reused anecdotes?
Their talking points are really rehearsed!
Oh no, they have politics because one of them voted for trump. I would say a non-minimalist action, but hey they don't judge right?
@@mellomallowy oh God. which one?
Omg I had the same experience when I "discovered" their content in my early 20s, so funny to see your comment! Agree with everything you said.
These corny dudes say the exact same thing over and over.
we only had to wait till 4:50 for the usual JFM origin story that everyone on the internet heard like 10 times already
@@erikasinkovics this. like "wahhh I looked at my 2000 sq ft home in burbs with two SUVs in the driveway and $200k in equity and I knew something was *wrong* 😩" lmao
I'm glad I read the comments before listening. Was doing some mending and found myself thinking.... Did he actual say something? And gee... That was a lot of the same word🙈🤣
"We are not a brand, we are just some human beings that come together with a common cause". That is the equivalent of "we are not a business, we are a family". Also, the AUDACITY to say that given the very heavy marketing these guys wrap themselves into, is just beyond me.
How big must your ego be to speak the words “we’re not a brand” into a literal branded microphone. I’m speechless 🫠
"we're not a brand" reminded me of the King of the Hill "we're not a cult, it's an organization that promotes love and-" bit.
THIS THIS
@@shirin-- 😂😁 You're spot on!
I don't feel great about the Dave Ramsey association, feels like a real cash grab.
Wow It's like they don't even HEAR the questions but go ahead and use the key words to repeat some memorized discourse, they were not here to debate or have a conversation, but to preach. Super annoying and counterproductive because I think the questions were really good and insightful!
This is the main thing that's bothered me over the last couple years with them, all answers seemed canned and rehearsed. Just talk man.
Yes! They keep talking in these long winded stories and I forgot what her questions originally were. I think that’s the test to how focused the response is to her actually questions
If you live in a state that experiences all four seasons, then your journey to minimalism is a bit more complicated because you need a wardrobe that’s warm enough for -2° windchill and cool enough for 98° heat.
YES! I have lost a lot of weight and the money I’m spending to replace my wardrobe is real. I need a coat for -5 degrees and work clothes for commuting in 90 degrees. Those of us that live in extreme climates NEED more clothes.
Add having a working farm AND full time off the farm jobs. 😁 I still try to only have what we need and *truly* want. May the people who think less of us because we don't have the latest and greatest be damned.
Yes! I was thinking of something similar. I live in Texas now but spent most of my life in the Northeast and needed a variety of types of clothes, as well as both dress clothes and casual clothes because I work in a field where I need to dress at least business casual.
Their scripted-ness makes me cringe so hard. They say the same exact things every single time they speak anywhere. It’s like they’re on a constant TED Talk loop.
I 'aint heard this much preaching since last I set foot in a church.
Makes my skin crawl. This feels so much like a worldview for sale.
45 minutes in and despite excellent pointed questions from Chelsea, these guys have yet to say... Anything.
"Consumption won't fill the void" yeah but even non-minimalists know that, at least philosophically.
But sometimes "the void" was created by a $300,000 hospital bill. Will not buying knick knacks and saving $300/year fill that void?
Sometimes the knick knacks are the only things keeping people from jumping into the void those hospital bills left behind. It feels like they refuse to even consider that.
6 min in and idk one more question not answered and I'm out.
Consumption could easily cause the relatively modest cost of health insurance seem out of reach, leading to a 300,000 liability.
How is "consume what you need, and not be tied to what you want, and you'll probably have enough" so controversial?
Every time Chelsea asked a question I was like ”uu this is so good, I want to hear an answer or at least a discussion around this”… but nope, these guys managed to use their memorized lines and completely avoid answering any questiosn.
These guys have the same stories and anecdotes for a decade, I used to listen to them years ago, and I hoped they will bring something new to the table by now. But nope, same divorce and mom died story. Very disappointed with the conversation. Kudos to Chelsea to trying to get something out of it until the last minute.
I’ve listened to these guys a bunch over the past decade or so and they never say anything new; It’s just their TED talk rehashed, often using the exact same words and phrases. I could have told several of the anecdotes myself.
They have talking points and don’t bother to deviate from them to address the actual questions asked.
"The only handcuffs we know today are the golden handcuffs, the guy making 250k and they're like 'i'm swimming in money I have too many things how do i deal with having so much stuff and not knowing what to do with all my bank' ."
I don't think I've ever heard golden handcuffs described this way. Every time I've heard of golden handcuffs it's for people who make decent money for their locale, are miserable at their well-paying jobs, but have children, medical debt, student loans, and a predatory mortgage loan, that removes the option for them to quit their job.
Same. If they "didn't know what to do with their money" they would more than likely just quit after investing a few years. But they usually have bills and familial obligations so they know exactly what to do with the cash lol. Honestly it seems like a projection from them 🤷🏾♀️
I think they defined it that way because they're wealthy and can't relate to most of society in that way. It almost sounds like they think they're the victims of a golden parachute, which is backwards 😅
Correct. Golden handcuffs was explained to me years ago as making just enough money that you're comfortable at a job you hate or don't find challenging and taking a pay cut to change jobs would alter your state of stability.
Golden handcuffs is definitely used in this way in Silicon Valley, where I live. Many tech employees here are promised hefty stock, but get it in allotments over a few years, hence the “golden handcuffs” that keep them on the job that is stressful.
Perhaps there are several meaning but that is the predominant one here so clearly there is variation.
I've been so busy (not by choice) that I literally haven't had the opportunity to mourn my own mother's death. My husband works two jobs and I can't get the childcare I need to have space so I'm exhausted. That's what non physical clutter looks like.
Lol And you haven't just gotten rid of all that non physical clutter?! Why ever not? Don't you know it's keeping you in the position you're in financially?
Obviously I'm being sarcastic. These guys are so full of shit.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you get the time you need, somehow. Systemic change and support structures like subsidised childcare/ family leave are lacking. These 'minimalists' have really minimised the real unpaid labour and support women like you contribute to society. The individualist mindset they promote is so short sighted and they bring zero insight to TFD viewers
I’m really sorry you’re having a rough time at the moment. I hope you can get some help from family or friends to give you some breathing room.
I’m sorry you’re having a rough time as well. I don’t believe that people like you are suffering because you’re choosing to suffer. I believe people like you need support, encouragement, and help from real people who genuinely care. I don’t think you should allow anyone to make you feel condemned for your struggles.
51:00 T.K lost me when he said that wealth is a reward for creating value and that there's not a morally wrong amount of money to make because he didn't address why they might be making that billion. He missed the opportunity to address companies evading taxes and their poor excuses for doing so.
When I said “there’s not a morally wrong amount of money to make,” that’s not the same thing as saying “there’s no such thing as an immoral strategy for making money.” I don’t endorse being a paid assassin or a fraudulent hedge fund manager for instance. I was simply saying that you can’t accuse a person of being good or bad solely based on the amount of money they make. It wasn’t a denial of the fact that some people make wealth through illegal and immoral means.
@@t.k.coleman5398 thanks T.K. I may have been wrong in understanding what you meant. I appreciate you responding and clarifying.
They feel like politicians rather than human beings. "Great question" *proceeds to not answer it and go over the same talking points again*
God this was painful to listen to. Why go on a podcast and not answer the questions and just go off on sermon-like tangents and having 0 self-consciousness when it comes to their privileges as people and in their business. And the advertising question at the end OMG like you have a hugely successful brand and obviously need money so please stop proselytizing about being too good for advertising (especially after the whole time he went off topic to brag about being a good person and charity). I detest these men. And although I saw some of their content years ago, I find the fact that they added TK interesting because he in theory challenges their ideals and offers new prospective but the more I listen to TK the more I get the same vibe as women who use toxic masculinity like behaviours to succeed and then put women down. Like he talks about poverty and working with these inner city kids but also sounds soooo capitalist and has so many individualist republican vibe comments on wealth inequality and it’s giving big bootstrapping vibes. I’m glad TFD and Chelsea brought them on to get a different view (I know this interview must have been a weird vibe ) but also I struggled to listen to it all because I can’t stand the preachy individualist BS they spew. Big eye rolls overhere whenever they go off on a tangent (which is always??)
They are cringe
I don't follow the minimalists anymore. I view my life in a more Marie kondo way instead. Keep what I love and I absolutely need and discard the rest.
Thanks for watching, send a msg to the number above for insight and guidance. 👆
And that's essentially what minimalism is supposed to be -- making sure that the things you keep are the few things you can be sure let you live your best. But minimalism has fallen prey to lifestyle marketing. It's why I avoid minimalist influencers and practice alone.
@@fruitygarlic3601 Couldn't agree more!
These guys have effectively put me off minimalism. Is there someone talking about minimalism from a class conscious perspective? That would be a great guest
A lot of people are, these guys are just not good examples tbh
Thanks for watching! Write me on the number above let's talk. 📩👆
Shelbizzlee - eco-minimalism, class conscious, just all around incredible human and content creator.
Camille Collazo on TH-cam has changed her approach recently to acknowledge systemic inequality.
The guys don’t seem to be a good representation of people who talk about minimalism online tbh
as someone who grew up in the 90s in Eastern Europe, had to pack about 100 pounds of anything (clothes, electronics, shoes, cosmetics, etc) to move to another country, and who has been extremely broke for some time in the past (to a point of not eating every day), I can say with confidence I - I am not a minimalist. A new shirt does make me happy, a new house device does make me happy, a new perfume does make me feel nice. A new shop with affordable fashion does make me like my life more. I'm not letting anyone shame me for loving things money can buy.
Can I get some Ranch with this word salad 🥗. A minimal amount though
I'm so sorry this wasn't a good back and forth. It felt more like 3 vs 1 and it irks me how privilaged they sound. I liked minimalism one time in my life but not anymore.
I disagree, it felt like she knew what she was walking into. She also did not do many follow up questions even when they ignored the question. I thought she did a great job of asking a great pointed question then letting each of say ... nothing for a few minutes. Then she would ask a different pointed question.
I’d be happy to do a 1-on-1 with Chelsea and I’d be happy to take all the hard questions. She mentioned that she never did an interview with 3 people before, so it was a new experience for all of us. It’s kind of hard to go deep into follow-ups and objections when three people are being interviewed. But I would be more than willing to tackle whatever tough questions and follow-ups people feel like we were running away from. I think these conversations are important and I wouldn’t want anyone feeling like we dodged their questions.
I love TFD, but this is right up with the Gretchen Rubin interview as far as the guests' complete refusal to live in reality or to operate with any emotional intelligence whatsoever. Yikes
The guests dissapointed but the comments delivered!!!!
I’d love to recommend shelbizzlee for talking about environmentalism and how she switched from over consumption to a more conscious life
She would have been a much better guest! Could have had an actual conversation rather than being talked at by 3 out of touch dudes
Yep she's awesome. Granted a lot of her content can be repetitive (what's this year's most eco friendly water bottle and such) but she does dive into things, while also trying to meet ppl where they're at with some basic introductory ideas. There's also much less philosophizing. She also reaches across the board- I found her from Minimalish Erica Lucas' channel, who's a conservative homeschooling military wife.
This was painful to watch. Chelsea did great, but these guys are out of touch. Minimalism can be a great message, but it’s nothing more than another thing to consume when you make it a brand and market it to sell.
Oh Chelsea. My facepalm hurts. The Bootstrap Bros don't even realize how out of their league you are. You were amazing and offered so many thoughtful, nuanced questions and they responded with nothing but vague platitudes.
I haven't listened to The Minimalists in a few years now. When did they add a third minimalist? Not very minimalist of them..
best answer xD
😂
Actually snorted at this 😂💀
Not only did I learn nothing, but they gave some frustrating answers 🤷♂
For minimalists, they sure have a lot of excess - three uninteresting guys instead of one, super wordy without saying much that's meaningful, lot of bragging. Definitely my least favorite guests on TFC. Spent most of the time wishing I heard more from Chelsea and less from these three.
I’m glad it’s not just me. These guys don’t seem like ones I’d want to talk to
Yeah they are very repetitive and makes it worse that the have been doing for such a long time
These guys really beat around the bush while pretending they’re not. They are not directly answering the more challenging questions, and it seems like they are being defensive, veiled in vague inspirational language and cool-guy personas. Their statements betray them - they say they don’t think they’re better than others, but go on to disparage the foods that most people people eat with judgmental language and paint themselves the saviors who brought veggies to the food dessert. It has a real “fun-guy pastor does mission trip” vibe. Some years back I learned about and began using minimalism as a tool to make my life more manageable. The Minimalists were blowing up back then, and I did find them helpful. But after a while they just started to sound so hallow and weird.
There’s a difference between finding spiritual benefits in owning less things, than trying to not-buy your way out of poverty. Yes it can help you financially to not buy so much, but there are also deeper and more complex issues when it comes to poverty, especially when it is generational. And there’s a difference between people who study poverty, the effects of it and how to leave it, and people who advocate minimalism.
Spot on👍
27:26 they got asked about like what do you think about stuff like maternity leave (supporting women) that the state can do… and the answer was that what they think is really important is school choice?! Tf
That wasn’t the actual question. She asked about what areas of advocacy we support for creating change. She gave some examples (ie. Maternity leave) of her own, but she asked us to name our own. She also listed economics, transportation, housing, and infrastructural issues as examples.
And I didn’t just parrot the label “school choice” and leave it at that. I said I advocate for parents to have more choice and I gave a specific example of how poorer families are marginalized by their geography when it comes to where they can send their children. It’s a discriminatory system based on problems with how schools are funded. That was an honest and specific question to what she actually asked.
"letting others emergency become our urgency" being the cause of calendar clutter and that being something we can and should aspire to control feels like the sort of thing only a single, well to do, childless, man could ever believe. A single parent working several hourly jobs doesn't get to just curate their obligations to the people around them. I feel like their rhetoric supports the individual actions form of problem solving while ignoring any systemic problems. They make minimalism look bad.
YES! How weird to hear that from them. How does a stressed working mom escape these constant “emergencies”?! She doesn’t have a choice!
People talk about minimalism like it's a groundbreaking new idea, but in fact most people throughout the history (and possibly today) have been more minimalist than Matt D'Avella. Buying or making a small number of items and using them as long as possible has always been the norm.
Yes! Yes! Yes! How is this a new concept??
yep, and older things were built to last longer too.
Yeah… I live in China and their savings rate is incredibly high. They often wear the same 3-4 items of clothing over and over. Apart from the flashy new rich, the vast majority of the 1.4 billion plus people here use and reuse things forever and need very little. Even my wealthy private school students wore the same clothes every few days, nearly every Chinese person I’ve met has a reusable water bottle they bought for $5-10 years ago, and they simply don’t need very much.
It’s a sharp contrast to two aspects of the culture (the cheap mass-market products they send back to the States & the largesse displayed in buffets) more often mentioned.
Although it looks like the majority of us felt like they didn’t really answer the questions and almost seemed scripted. I give them credit for participating in this and hopefully this will push them to analyze their stance on important topics like inequalities within our systems.
I’m definitely trying to learn more from this perception. I totally get people not liking or agreeing with an answer, but I thought I addressed everything she asked. The challenge with interviewing 3 people, however, is that there isn’t as much time to do the usual follow-ups, counterpoints, or requests for clarification on each answer like we see in 1-on-1 interviews. I enjoyed the questions and wished we could have dived in deeper.
I have about 23 minutes left and pretty sure I’m not going to finish it. If I go any further I’m sure I’ll hear a Patrick Bateman monologue at some point. I listen to the podcast and like some of the others I had to come on here to read the comments. These guys sound overly-rehearsed to the point where they’re not engaging directly with most of Chelsea’s well thought out, fair questions. Proof that the squeaky clean vibe does start to feel slimy at some point. I’m going back to the Drew Gooden minimalism video for some catharsis
They sound like they have their elevator speech down pat, and it’s old and trite.
I watched their doc and enjoy their pov, but the “I wuz unhappy making six figures” rings hollow.
Like TFD, I grew up poor and worked for college and any savings, I save a lot and don’t have debt (after being a banker and making a living basically selling debt it turned me off debt), but these guys CHOSE minimalism, they don’t NEED it in the way my mom did when picking out Christmas presents etc.
I guess I find them disingenuous. Blaming consumers for a deregulated banking world, low wages, and corporate greed.
They are basically the corporate version of themselves. Yawn.
ngl. these guys sound like cult leaders
bring on Marie Kondo ‼️ let’s get someone w some SENSE on the line 😭
Great questions asked, it’s a shame they weren’t answered.
These guys sound so rehearsed. Like I'm being pitched an empty timeshare
Hi Chelsea!
I have follow this channel for years, even tho i am from Argentina and some of the content doesn´t apply here, i really love learning about the topics in your videos. I have notice something for a few years and i want to tell you, you are so incredible talented. the way you express your ideas and the amazing energy you put into the interviews is really special. Thank you and your team for giving us such amazing content! ♥
“I don’t think there’s a morally wrong amount of money to make” Well, if you make it exploiting people’s labor and a finite amount of natural resources, yes, there is. And I would argue that no obscene amount of wealth can be made without doing at least one of the two. Since the dude is so into education, he should probably read some more on the history of labor under capitalism.
This episode helped me to appreciate all of the amazing elevated conversations Chelsea has had on previous episodes with amazing women and men who are more down to earth 😁
The problem I have with minimalism isn't what it preaches, but what it ignores. It individualizes problems that are pretty systemic. Consumerism is a cultural and systemic issue not just an individual issue and while you do have agency, it isn't that can be fixed with just individual choices and it's a part of a larger problem. This interview is very indicative of that, every time Chelsea asked poignant questions they kept deflecting to individual choices.
i consider myself a minimqlist and i 100% agree with this! mininalism has helped me to personally unlearn some consumerist mi dsets i had but the problem of consumersim is so much larger than personal choices. the system itself incentivises unhealthy company practices and conseumerism. The system needs to change!
I'm pretty disappointed in how scripted these guys are... a lot of pinterest quotes and less substance
Thanks, I hate it.
I’m not too far in but so far Josh & Ryan’s answers are the same old answers they’ve been trotting out for years. It sounds like evangelical Christian preaching. I agree this may have been a secret expose!
Hated just about every minute of this episode. I have heard these guys multiple times over since they began. Have to give them kudos that their story hasn't changed BUT that is the problem too, their story hasn't grown, embraced or recognized the larger issues. Ugh.
Chelsea is in her new urbanism era and I’m here for it
If it involves continuing to lend her platform to the likes of these guys and Virgie Tovar, I don't want to be here for it.
@@lmshanyfelt what’s wrong with Virgie Tovar?
They're saying a whole lot of nothing without recognizing their massive male privilege
They are so coach-like...
This episode felt like 90s seminar or real estate agent tapes instead of a conversation
The amount of time these guys spent defending their shirts instead of saying anything substantive... yikes.
They have fallen way too deeply into the motivational speaker character type
Please bring on the AfroMinimalist instead.
Yes!!
What a great example of how not to have original responses even when answering questions. Pretty sure I just watched their entire catalog of content in this one video.
"Wealth isn't bad. People are bad." 🙄