Thanks for the analysis and discussion. I think KT '24 is a great game and a better version of KT. Volkus is a ton of fun and is a killzone that will be as well loved by the community as Gallowdark. I think we're stuck with an elite favored meta until Approved Ops 24 rotates out. GW can certainly make some changes with a balance dataslate, but only up to a certain point. I do hope they dial back the big gap that currently exists between the top S Tier teams and the rest of the field though.
Warpcoven fix: Limit to 1 Rubric Marine Warrior Warrior only gets ceasles when not moved at all The Ploy with Decrease AP1 should in case of an AP attack, reduce the armor rating by one Spells can just be castet once per turn (no doubeling with counteract) The equipment with the flexible boon has to go (i love it, but its nuts and a lot mental load)
What if they added a gunner unit to blades of khaine in the form of a single firedragon swooping hawk or warp spider with 2 or 3 aspect techniques instead of 5? Thoughts?
I prefeir nerfs that keep the personalities of the teams that are in line with their lore. For inquisition, the flexability is part of their idear. Just worsen their ploys etc.
The critical part people miss is that you can't over-complicate things or make things suddenly counter-intuitive. Also, we can't just create a vacuum where the next-team-up is now even more abusive because the only check against them was just neutered. Isolate the features that create an imbalance that's also a negative play experience and tone them down. Ignore P1 should turn into Piercing Crits 1. Job done with the Warp Coven and Nurgle ploys. The blanket -1 to hit in melee from Slaanesh is also a problem because it is on from the beginning of the turn, while the -1 to shooting doesn't exist at the start of the Turning Point. You have to expend each model to get the benefit, so it has no benefit if the opponent is preemptively going after your guys. Make THAT ability be the universal and the always-on -1 in melee be the Mark-only benefit. Other than that, reduce the number of uses of Warded Armor and Arcane Robes. Change the "per turning point" on each one to "per game," and that'll help. Also, eliminated the DR against Critical Hits from the Plague Marines and Legionary Anointed. "Nobody prevents / reduces Crit Damage," is really easy to remember.
Totally understand this take, I think the old edition is extremely solid. I think this edition will catch up and surpass the old very quickly. I think that GW has a much better grasp on how to keep things fresh for this edition and i look forward to the future.
I dont think nerfs are the way out, If they want elite teams to be the kill focused teams I cant argue that. But the horde and midrange teams should be buffed to achieve objectives and tricks better in tandem with how stat check-y Astartes models can be. Like how necrons can res and thus compete, let guardsmen be 20 models, pathfinders drones counting as half a unit cost, striking skorpions be 3+ saves, etc I feel like the things that feel good feel great but the problem is they're just straight better than other things, and buffs are the better way out in this case.
Excellent. It's always great to hear what you guys have to say! It's true how uncomfortable is to play with chaos elites and see how the life in the eyes of the opponent just fades.
obscuring negates also crits and AP unless you get close enough to remove obscuring remove my pain token spending limit for Hand of the Archon and I'm ok with fighting elites.
We’re still very much in the equivalent to the, “Kommandos are way better than Vet Guard, WTF?” stage of KT-21. Knee-jerk reactions are only going to work by pure luck.
I think yes and no personally. I think alot of KT opinions is amplified for me because I'm playing at worlds, and the edition just doest feel balanced right now. I 100% think that they will fix the issues at competative play. Its just takes time and data.
For Inquisition, they should lose Kasrkin and prevent them from doubling up on the same Tome. Hierotek should reanimate with 1d3+1 Wounds and their nanomine should go down to 3" radius, and heal to 2d3.
they should've added way more requisitioned factions or units to inquisition though, like sisters of battle, aquilons, ogryns, maybe even deathwatch for a hybrid elite team like the old compendium talons of the emperor could be run.
Its thier ability to spam healing and change thier defense dice. If you dont kill a model in 1 activation they can heal that model really easily. That with thier dice fixing makes the team really dificult to play against in most matchups
It was bad. It had: 1. Non-mutual shooting 2. Stupid obscure rules forced you to spend half of the time on measuring 3. Horde teams dominated elites which is bad for the game generally They fixed it. But yet, they haven’t fixed the main issue - lack of variability
@@hehmda672 Big disagree. It was good since I prefer hordes to elites and think more activations generally create more space for decisions and better gameplay, found obscure to be fine if map layout was set up properly and really it only disadvantaged new players who would need to take some time to learn spacing and cover rules, though agree that overwatch was in need of a fix.
5 man teams for troublesome elite teams seems the easiest, cleaniest fix imo Pretty sure it was intended from day 1 with the kill op bottoming out at 5
@@Granite-ny8up I'd be down for this, but they'd have to nerf Inquisition and several Xenos teams (Hierotek, Elves) to compensate for losing a whole model. That pass probably would do a world of good.
Go back to KT21? Fewer things to fix (random initiative and bad Tac Ops balance...and that's it? - and these things aren't even exactly fixed with the new edition either).
For game it’s good and healthy to have elites meta. Because elites vs elites match is much faster, easier, more fun per second. 10+ models with 7-8w and Sv 4-5 are all the same, boring, slow and predictable, aren’t they?
I dont think so. I think many of the teams share key aspects. I like that elietes are strong, i just tink its going to take a few balance dataslates in order to balance the game between all types of teams. Elite vs Elites are super fun and quick
Step one: buff my team.
Step two: nerf everything else, but not too much.
Gotta try to keep things fair.
What's your team ?
@@01eksii chaos cult
Ratman shouting out right back at you! Glad I’ll see you again this year guys!!
Hell yeah brother excited to meet you at worlds
I wish I had a cool nickname like Raman ….
Thanks for the analysis and discussion. I think KT '24 is a great game and a better version of KT. Volkus is a ton of fun and is a killzone that will be as well loved by the community as Gallowdark.
I think we're stuck with an elite favored meta until Approved Ops 24 rotates out. GW can certainly make some changes with a balance dataslate, but only up to a certain point. I do hope they dial back the big gap that currently exists between the top S Tier teams and the rest of the field though.
Couldn't agree more!
Warpcoven fix:
Limit to 1 Rubric Marine Warrior
Warrior only gets ceasles when not moved at all
The Ploy with Decrease AP1 should in case of an AP attack, reduce the armor rating by one
Spells can just be castet once per turn (no doubeling with counteract)
The equipment with the flexible boon has to go (i love it, but its nuts and a lot mental load)
Please don't roll back: Strong attack spells, slow but long living marines
Oh the only intellectual kill team podcast in internet is back again. I need to do my chores to listen to it in a appropriate setting
What if they added a gunner unit to blades of khaine in the form of a single firedragon swooping hawk or warp spider with 2 or 3 aspect techniques instead of 5? Thoughts?
I prefeir nerfs that keep the personalities of the teams that are in line with their lore. For inquisition, the flexability is part of their idear. Just worsen their ploys etc.
The critical part people miss is that you can't over-complicate things or make things suddenly counter-intuitive.
Also, we can't just create a vacuum where the next-team-up is now even more abusive because the only check against them was just neutered.
Isolate the features that create an imbalance that's also a negative play experience and tone them down. Ignore P1 should turn into Piercing Crits 1. Job done with the Warp Coven and Nurgle ploys. The blanket -1 to hit in melee from Slaanesh is also a problem because it is on from the beginning of the turn, while the -1 to shooting doesn't exist at the start of the Turning Point. You have to expend each model to get the benefit, so it has no benefit if the opponent is preemptively going after your guys. Make THAT ability be the universal and the always-on -1 in melee be the Mark-only benefit.
Other than that, reduce the number of uses of Warded Armor and Arcane Robes. Change the "per turning point" on each one to "per game," and that'll help. Also, eliminated the DR against Critical Hits from the Plague Marines and Legionary Anointed. "Nobody prevents / reduces Crit Damage," is really easy to remember.
if they issue an updare to rules on the cards,they should give a downlodable printout that can be cutout and stuck over the changed card to amend it
They have that already, you can download/print off the app and it prints automatically sized to the sold data cards!
Is there any place to check those data aggregated?
With Astarters, start by removing that they can counteract while being concealed. Minor thing, but it forces a choice.
You can move 2 inches if you counteract from conceal.Which is not that big of a thing
@@viktorbasara2368or Fight or mission action or shoot (if they have a silent weapon)
Totally understand this take, I think the old edition is extremely solid. I think this edition will catch up and surpass the old very quickly. I think that GW has a much better grasp on how to keep things fresh for this edition and i look forward to the future.
I dont think nerfs are the way out, If they want elite teams to be the kill focused teams I cant argue that. But the horde and midrange teams should be buffed to achieve objectives and tricks better in tandem with how stat check-y Astartes models can be. Like how necrons can res and thus compete, let guardsmen be 20 models, pathfinders drones counting as half a unit cost, striking skorpions be 3+ saves, etc
I feel like the things that feel good feel great but the problem is they're just straight better than other things, and buffs are the better way out in this case.
Excellent. It's always great to hear what you guys have to say!
It's true how uncomfortable is to play with chaos elites and see how the life in the eyes of the opponent just fades.
obscuring negates also crits and AP unless you get close enough to remove obscuring
remove my pain token spending limit for Hand of the Archon and I'm ok with fighting elites.
We’re still very much in the equivalent to the, “Kommandos are way better than Vet Guard, WTF?” stage of KT-21. Knee-jerk reactions are only going to work by pure luck.
I think yes and no personally. I think alot of KT opinions is amplified for me because I'm playing at worlds, and the edition just doest feel balanced right now. I 100% think that they will fix the issues at competative play. Its just takes time and data.
Now I can see!!!
For Inquisition, they should lose Kasrkin and prevent them from doubling up on the same Tome.
Hierotek should reanimate with 1d3+1 Wounds and their nanomine should go down to 3" radius, and heal to 2d3.
they should've added way more requisitioned factions or units to inquisition though, like sisters of battle, aquilons, ogryns, maybe even deathwatch for a hybrid elite team like the old compendium talons of the emperor could be run.
I still cannot comprehend how novitiates are s tier with the nosedive nerfs they got
Its thier ability to spam healing and change thier defense dice. If you dont kill a model in 1 activation they can heal that model really easily. That with thier dice fixing makes the team really dificult to play against in most matchups
it kinda sucks to say... honestly they had things feeling almost perfect last edition. I almost want to say just roll it all back lol.
if there's nothing to fix you make more things to fix for yourself lol
It was bad. It had:
1. Non-mutual shooting
2. Stupid obscure rules forced you to spend half of the time on measuring
3. Horde teams dominated elites which is bad for the game generally
They fixed it. But yet, they haven’t fixed the main issue - lack of variability
@@hehmda672 Big disagree. It was good since I prefer hordes to elites and think more activations generally create more space for decisions and better gameplay, found obscure to be fine if map layout was set up properly and really it only disadvantaged new players who would need to take some time to learn spacing and cover rules, though agree that overwatch was in need of a fix.
5 man teams for troublesome elite teams seems the easiest, cleaniest fix imo
Pretty sure it was intended from day 1 with the kill op bottoming out at 5
@@Granite-ny8up I'd be down for this, but they'd have to nerf Inquisition and several Xenos teams (Hierotek, Elves) to compensate for losing a whole model. That pass probably would do a world of good.
Go back to KT21? Fewer things to fix (random initiative and bad Tac Ops balance...and that's it? - and these things aren't even exactly fixed with the new edition either).
so much this. Previous ed is just much more solid, has compendium teams and with certain changes to tac ops and initiative the game would be perfect
oh god the 3 up save again, he spent most of the last vid complaining. I get it. Unsubbed
I see that your a +4 save kind of guy
You unsubbed … cause he mentioned a buff one of the worst teams in the meta could use? Wow … ok then. I think I’ve seen it all
For game it’s good and healthy to have elites meta. Because elites vs elites match is much faster, easier, more fun per second.
10+ models with 7-8w and Sv 4-5 are all the same, boring, slow and predictable, aren’t they?
I dont think so. I think many of the teams share key aspects. I like that elietes are strong, i just tink its going to take a few balance dataslates in order to balance the game between all types of teams. Elite vs Elites are super fun and quick