The serious golfer will test every club in the store before he buys. I ended up with the Wilson Staff d350 irons, 4 thru wedge, with their graffite shaft. Very forgiving, very long, and a great feel. The price was good, too. The clubs allowed me to hit a nice, predictable draw almost every time, and the ball contact was soft, like butter.
I tested the Mizuno 919 forged and the Srixon 585’s yesterday. Actually preferred the Srixon’s. Are they as well made as the Mizuno’s (who have a great quality reputation)?
Michael Pittana: Both sets are lovely. We were really impressed with the Srixon's too (head shaping, feel and performance data), in our opinion choosing between them comes down to subjective's. Probably worth us pointing out the Mizuno JPX919 Forged and Srixon Z785 are one piece forged. The Srixon Z585 have forged bodies with spring steel faces. Hope that helps.
Excellent and comprehensive test. It will certainly help me narrow down which irons to look closer at next. Strange lack of Titleist clubs. Did they not want to participate???
Adrian Dutton Thanks for taking the time to say so Adrian, glad we can help. Titleist insist we only test clubs that have been fitted to our tester, which would mean we would only have included one set in the test (most probably the AP2). We really wanted to show the difference between categories, it seemed easier, and to avoid confusion to leave them out of this one. Adrian Dutton
Brilliant test. this forged test has to be done every spring and fall. Is The hogan ft. Worth black realy in 1 though they would be in 2-2.5, they looks more forgivening than a pure blade mb.
Thanks for taking the time to say so Anders. Understand your point and absolutely forgiveness is open to debate (it wouldn't need to be if each brand published MOI data for their models). The reason we ranked the Hogan FT Worth black within the category 1 irons, is down to the size. The blade although beautifully shaped is tiny, which obviously affects forgiveness.
Pretty much tells me that really all the clubs listed (plus a few others you did not mention) are good enough for me, a beginner, and it doesn’t matter which ones I buy unless I am concerned about forgiveness which at this point I am not. Once I become, say a 30 handicapper, then I can start to think about “game improvement irons” or decide to punish myself with blades. As long as I take lessons and don’t give up I will do fine with whatever I get.
Joseph Veltri: Thanks for taking the time to say so. This test was just looking at forged irons and showing the differences, unfortunately the Ping i210 is a cast head. There will be other future tests which the i210 will feature within.
Hi gentlemen I am just about to go out And by my new forged clubs could you please tell me did Mizuno have good shaft options shaft options I play off 16 ??? And have never been fitted before ?. Thanks
Hi Dave, thanks for the question. Yes Mizuno have a fantastic selection of shafts, all of which come for the same cost, which means there's no up-charge. Hope that helps.
Which club had the most forgiveness but a smaller head size (smaller than game improvement larger than blades)? I cant stand chunky clubs but I'm still a 17, although trending down now that I play more often, so obviously I still need the forgiveness.
Hi Andrew, this video is almost couple of years old, the data we created this year for current models might be more helpful. Link to our website below, it also gives drop off's (difference between on and off centre hits) which is a good indicator of forgiveness. bit.ly/3cIyjFe Hope that helps.
I was glad to find this review. I have always played solid game improvement / high forgiveness irons (Ping G400, Ping g10). I have improved my handicap from 19 to 15 or so. I was recently fit into the Mazuno 919 Forged irons. They feel fantastic but I was very concerned that these "mid handicap" irons would not offer the amount of forgiveness I need. I was glad to see them fall at the higher end of the forgiveness scale. It helped relieve some of my anxiety so thanks!
Cobra say they're for up to about a 14 handicap golfer, but to be honest it's much more about your ball striking than your handicap. Have you tried them?
This is probably most pointless review I've ever watched .... You told us nothing you claim in the tag Forged irons ranked by forgiveness. Then you put up a chart that no one can read .... Absolutely useless....
Rodney Greenwell Thanks for the feedback. Not quite sure I'd agree. 26 sets split down into forgiveness categories is actually quite useful for a lot of golfers. Throw in data including seven iron loft, shot height and descent angle along with all the usual data expected in a comparison and it starts to become "quite" useful for golfers potentially looking at a new set of forged irons. Oh and we offer to answer as many questions as golfers can through at us. Agree you only get the full data at the end of the video.
I was expecting more in depth discussion about the clubs Not an average ratings of the different groups IE sin rates , carry distance, peak hight , decent angles of each club Then when you put the groups up the writing was far to small to read properly when you do a comparison we the viewer want to see the data for all th r clubs not an average.
Rodney Greenwell Understand your point, but we've reviewed quite a few of these irons before. For this test we really wanted to show how much difference there is between each of the categories. And then show the tables with averages for each of the irons involved at the end. Basically helping golfers establish which category of iron might help them, and then see how each model in that category compares. An interesting finding also for us, was how just because an iron has a strong loft it didn't mean low flying shots, with low spin and hitting the green at a shallow descent angle. Which is why that was covered off in the wrap up.
Thanks for this. It gives me some information I can add to my analysis for forged clubs for we mortals. I miss my titlest blades. But I’m to old to hit them well now. I too am awaiting the holy grail. I hit those forgiving irons far but I’ve problems with accuracy. They are no better than my hybrids.
I will attempt an explanation: Because of the way the mass of the club head attaches to the shaft at the heel the distribution of that mass heel-to-toe will affect how the momentum of the swing tries to twist the club head, shaft and hands. One of the problems with the old thin hickory clubs was that the toe forces twisted the shafts differently club-to-club because the shaft had so little resistance to torque and wood isn’t a uniform material. The switch to metal shafts in the 1930s largely eliminated the torque problem and also allowed the shafts to be bent at the top of the swing by dropping the hands down to a lower plane for the downswing, something Byron Nelson is credited as being the originator of that swing style most use today. The introduction of carbon fiber shafts for longer clubs eliminated the torque problem for them and allowed the amount of bend in the shaft and where it occurred to be ‘tuned’ to the speed of golfer’s swing. The reason for that history lesson is to understand that now because torque isn’t being absorbed by the shafts it gets transmitted to the hands and tries to twist the toe back and face skyward in takeaway move and will in the hands of a beginner who doesn’t apply a grip to the club which prevents it and CONTROLS THE ORIENTATION OF THE TOE. Why is orientation of the toe in the takeaway important? Because the momentum of the club head mass tends to pull the club in the direction the toe points. When the beginner lets the force acting on the toe mass pronate the lead hand and turns the toe backwards in the takeaway the result is a swing plane which which is too low and too much inside requiring a them to lift the club with muscles. What Karsten Solheim, founder of PING, discovered in the late 1950s, first with putters, was that if the mass in the club head was redistributed and balanced between heel and toe the tendency for the toe to get pulled open in the backswing and then pulled closed in the downstroke would be minimized. The realized that the ideal situation was when the balance of mass in the club head kept the face square TO THE GOLFER’S NATURAL SWING ARC very much like how today’s self-driving cars use cameras to keep a car between the lines on the road automatically. A benefit of that heel-to-toe balancing of mass to keep the face automatically square to the swing arc is that ‘toe bias’ no longer tries to twist the club in the hands which makes them more ‘forgiving’ in the sense that a golfer with a poor grip will be better able to control the angle of face and toe in the takeaway which will result in the toe pointing ideally when the force cocks the wrists and pulls arms up and shoulders around hips. But in the hands of an advanced golfer accustomed to feeling the toe bias trying to twist the club in the hands (but being able to control it) provides constant feed back as to where the toe and face are pointing at key points in the swing. This feedback via the hands becomes even more important when a golfer gets to the level of being able to visualize and shape shots which requires opening the face and stance for fades and closing them for draws. Using MB blades the difference between straight, fade and draw toe alignment can be felt during the swing in the hands of an advanced player with a light but controlled grip on the handle. There is similar feedback provided by heel-toe balanced ‘game improvement’ irons when face and toe are adjusted for fades and draws but it is more subtle. The other aspect of ‘forgiveness’ which marketing focuses on which is a result of better heel-to-balance is the tendency for the face of the club to deflect when the ball does not hit the ideal point of impact on the club face. The greater the distribution of mass between heel and toe the less the club face will deflect open when impact is too far towards the toe or closed if struck too close to the heel. The result is straighter shots with poorly struck balls. While the newer technology will improve scores by keeping more balls on the short grass it does nothing to allow the golfer with the inconsistent poor ball striking to understand why it is happening and improve it. It is like shooting yourself in the foot and putting a bandage over the wound without removing the bullet. Personally I started playing recreationally in the early 1980s with a set of blades and switched to a set of carbon shafted, cavity back ‘improvement’ clubs in the late 90’s. It wasn’t until I retired in 2007 and took a job as a starter at a course (to get free golf) I got serious about improving my swing and the way I did it was by purchasing and re-gripping a set of blade irons from the late 1970s found at a thrift for $2 each and following the advice of Hogan in his ‘Five Lessons… ‘ book. In the book he suggests starting with just a mid-iron (e.g. 7 iron) and perfecting hitting straight shots with 1/4 swings (from takeaway extension to finish extension) before doing anything else then once that is mastered increase swing arc to 1/2, 3/4 then full continuing to focus on hitting straight. That practice drill is brilliant because it eliminates so many variables making it easier to identify swing faults. What I discovered was my grip was allowing my lead hand to pronate and swing the club too far inside in the takeaway and was also pulling the club away from body, target line and ball as the club force turned them over. By gradually increasing the swing arc I discovered at address I had too much weight forward on my feet due to a squatting posture (knees too far over toes) and for that reason as the swing radius and force increased my entire body and swing plane got tilted forward, something I had not ever noticed before until the finish. It was the feedback of poor shot results with those ‘unforgiving’ blades which allowed me to identify and fix my swing faults. I don’t suggest recreational players compete with blade irons but think that buying an old blade 7 iron from a thrift for $2 and spending another $5 to put a new grip on it will be the best investment one can make to improve their swing. 😀
So I read in the link that you have removed mishits from the data but isn't that exactly the point of forgiveness? To punish you less on mishits? If anything, should you not only be testing on mishits i.e. shots from the heel and toe of the club to see what performs best on bad shots
Eoghan Russell Thanks for the comment. Don't think for a minute the pro only hits shots from the centre of the face. Mishits we typically remove are pulls to the left which fly further, they would skew the data dramatically if we left them in. We only want to offer the best comparison we can, and never want to mislead consumers by showing data that's down to human error rather than performance of the golf club. Hope that explains.
Good review. I think it would have been much easier to visually show the data , maybe on GC2 rather than skytrak. So for instance if you were looking for the most forgiving forged iron then simply showing the front to back dispersion would be a far better way of conveying it to the viewer. Assuming you hits dozens of shots with each iron, the data sample would have been big enough to to take account of centre and off centre strikes.
At 32 seconds in to the video you can see marker dots on the club faces. Are these not for the GC2 to find the club face angle or can the skytrak use these dots also?
Kenneth Pinkston: Thanks for the question. It would be pretty misleading of us to show swing weight information as lots of the irons were fitted to our test pro, so wouldn't be the spec golfers might buy off the rack. Sorry.
@@todaysgolfer Thank You for your reply. I'm 66 yrs old with a nine handicap and have been in the market for new clubs. I currently have Taylor Made burners and have them loaded up with "Lead Tape" to a swing weight of D-5. I had lost yardage over the years and the added swing weight has helped significantly to regain lost yardage. What are YOUR results in swing weight changes ?
Most clubs bought off the rack are D-2's ....I am curious as to the swing weight of the clubs the test pro uses. Since I discovered that Brooks Henderson uses clubs with a swing weight of D-8 and Dustin Johnson uses a swing weight of D-5-6 I have been curious about the significance of the lighter weighted clubs compared to heavier clubs and the swing speed correlation. I found, with the heavier club the swing speed may go down but the extra weight makes up for the distance.
@@kennethpinkston6664 Completely understand your interest Kenneth. Instead of us putting out specs and data from this test which would be misleading can you bear with us? We'll look into doing a separate test (in the new year) using a single iron model at different swing weights to give an accurate comparison.
I was looking for the Ping G400 and G700 irons in this review but they weren't there. Am I missing something? Surely they both deserve a place in the Game Improvement categories?
Mike McLellan Thanks for the question. This test was for forged irons only, it seemed fair to include those that had forged faces too. Ping G400 and G700 are cast not forged. But if you want to know where both sets fit in on our forgiveness rating you can see them here www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/features/equipment-features/2018/april/best-irons-2018-ranked-by-forgiveness/
The only thing I’ve taken from this post is that The Belfry must be having to watch the pennies if it’s using SkyTrack as opposed to GC Quad or Trackman .
MizunoIronMan Thanks for the comment. The launch monitor doesn't belong to The Belfry (2 + 2 doesn't equal 5), there's several Trackman's there. JFYI: Our testing has shown SkyTrak to be very good (and comparable to much more expensive launch monitors) for ball data. Obviously it doesn't give club data.
Tell me which irons felt like butter the most. I'll tell you my test too. from 1-10 10 being the best feel for me. Mp18 mmc 8.4 MP18 blades 7 Srixon z585 8.9 srixon blade 7 TM790 5 TM blades 4.9 Ping i200 7.8 so far.
ice Rad: Thanks for the comment. You're asking about subjectives, so everyone will have their own opinion. Our test pro was very keen on the feel of the Srixon Z785s and the Mizuno MP-18 MB (but he's a blade fan).
I'm currently using the Cobra Forged Tec irons and as a mid handicap golfer I want to aspire to play a better player iron, therefore i need to know when I've hit a bad shot. Total forgiveness is not the holy grail for me.
How about putting some tape on faces and hit balls on toe and heel and compare forgiveness. Are any heads larger than others? Sweetq spots on some larger?
Not sure skytrak is measuring the whole ball flight so I don't trust the numbers. (The images captured in the first few inches after impact are used to measure all of the ball flight parameters necessary to feed the ball flight ) Descent angles have to be a calculation. Also I'm not bothered to much with descent angles on 7 iron shots I'd be more concerned with pitching wedges and 9 irons stopping on the green.
Thanks for the comment 40yearoldgolfer. We've had SkyTrak, GC Quad and Trackman all in operation together and the numbers are very similar, but understand your point. Regards descent angle, we included these (and shot height) because of the difference in loft between the seven irons we tested. It allows us to show how closely a strong lofted seven iron can flight shots compared to a standard lofted seven iron (which is often a point of debate).
Patrik Hanson Thanks for the comment Patrik. We are hoping to do some testing with Honma for 2019, especially the new Tour World forged irons....watch this space.
No Jon, it's because dispersion numbers can be very misleading. Dispersion is much more a reflection of how a golfer has hit a club on any particular day, not a good indicator for how accurate any particular model is. We've seen a test pro hit shots into a 5 yard dispersion before, but a week later not be able to hit exactly the same club into a 25 yard dispersion circle. Essentially you end up analysing the golfer not the club. Front to back drop off's are a better indicator.
That will be the iron with the highest forgiveness ranking. Which was the PXG 0311 SGI Gen 2 iron, with a forgiveness rating of 4. Link below to our review if you're interested. www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/golf-clubs/irons/pxg/pxg-0311-sgi-gen-2-irons/
Interesting that all the clubs launch around the same. High to low is only 1.5 degrees difference and most are within 0.5 while the loft ranges from 29-35 for the 7 irons. Peak height increases with the more forgiving clubs as does the distance. I think that carry distance is going to make a big difference to players with a slower swing speed. They aren't going to get the same spin rates as the pro doing the testing but, for their swing speed, they aren't really losing much spin at all with game improvement irons. I think you've done some myth busting there.
Neal Sokay Thanks for the comment Neal. What would you have really liked us to cover? We tried really hard to make sure the video wasn't 30mins long, but still had something for everyone. We were aware we've also done reviews on most of the individual irons too.
Derek Whyle Understand your point Derek. Golfers need somewhere to turn for help and advice, we're all about trying to get across some pretty complex facts in a way average club golfers can understand. Agreed there absolutely is no one right solution for everyone.
Completely understand why you think dispersion should be included Scott. Problem is dispersion really is only a reflection of how well the golfer has hit each club that particular day. We've seen days when a test pro can hit shots into a 5 yard dispersion circle, but come back a week later and not be able to hit the same club into a 25 yard dispersion circle. So you end up analysing golfer performance, not club performance. Dispersion numbers can be really misleading, which is why we don't usually give data for it.
I don't want to sound harsh but you guys need to find another host for these testing videos. It's like watching the adult version of the inbetweeners - extremely awkward and as engaging as a bag or plain crisps.
Make a freakin decision! I’m starting to believe that all online reviews are pointless paid ads. Or is the truth that most clubs are just about the same?
J S: Thanks for the feedback. Were you expecting us to say ONE of the 26 irons we tested was best for everyone? We highlighted our stand out performers. Essentially our aim with this test was to show how much difference there is between the different categories to allow golfers to compare. Sorry say it but there really isn't ONE best performer for everyone.
The whole theory about certain clubs only being suitable for certain handicappers is a load of BS. There are a lot of high handicappers who can strike an iron equal to or better then low handicappers. A lot of high HC struggle with drives, chips and putting so putting a blanket handicap number on irons should be taken with a grain of salt.
natewayna: Couldn't agree more. It's exactly why we don't label any particular category with a handicap range. From our experience more golfers are interested in finding out about the irons that might suit them and how they compare to the others within a particular category.
Just because an iron has 7 stamped on the bottom doesn’t make for a good comparison. The loft greatly impacts the spin, distance, decent angle and forgiveness. This is pretty useless as a comparison video, for this reason and using category averages. Not sure what the discussion table goal was for this video, other than click bait. Kinda disappointed
ChrisHelen McIntosh Thanks for feedback. Understand why you feel comparing seven irons of different lofts isn't a good idea. But what came out of the test is how stronger lofted seven irons can launch shots just as high, with as much spin, and drop shots onto a green at the same descent angle as weaker lofted models. If we tested a strong lofted 8 iron against a 7, shots would be called out for flying too high, with too much spin yet they fly same distance.The whole idea was to show the difference. We put up data tables for all 26 clubs involved at the end of the video, they're also on our website here bit.ly/2QkPRx1 The whole idea was allowing golfers to see how different irons in the category they may buy within compare. By including category averages we also show how much golfers might be putting on the line by choosing a set above their ability.
So you’re saying that stronger lofted improvement more forgiving irons give the same spin rates and greater decent angles as blades. Wow. No one should ever use anything else. Except that we don’t all get to hit off flat perfect mat lies. But seriously if improvement irons give the same spin rates, better decent angles and more distance why don’t pros use them?
@@mcfisherclan We haven't said either are better.The test shows how strong and traditional loft irons compare, so golfers are more informed. There's a few reasons why more pro's don't play them right now. ONE: Most don't want to make the trade-off in terms of head size to get extra forgiveness or distance. TWO: Most pro's aren't chasing distance, they're much more concerned about hitting shots to a consistent tight radius of the flag (where a lot of club golfers would give their right arm for an extra 7 -8 yards from a seven iron). THREE: 95% of tour events are won with forged irons, often strong loft irons are cast not forged. For us loft isn't the hottest subject right now... hollow body irons are. An industry insider told us recently how it's the young players that are growing up using hollow irons now, who will be the tour players of tomorrow. And typically hollow irons have stronger lofts than traditional forged blades...so watch this space overt next 3 - 5 years.
Why don’t you have an 18 handicapper hitting the game improvement irons? The pro can hit anything, using a real mid handicapper would be much more realistic as to what WE might expect.
Gecko Brah Thanks for the comment Gecko. Good question, in a perfect world we would. But we've found the issue with using higher handicap golfers for comparative testing is the ability to replicate strike. Giving out data which allows comparison (between models), when we know there's been more "better" strikes with a particular model just feels misleading. Using a higher handicapper for the game improver models also means you don't get comparative data between each category, which we feel for this test is a useful part. It means golfers can see what's put on the line by choosing a forgiveness category 2 iron over those in category 3. Hope that helps, we're not ruling out higher handicap testing, it would just need to be within the right test.
Simon thanks for reply. But the forgiveness factor for strikes that are NOT replicated is one of the most important characteristics for the mid to high hcp golfer. I’m a 13 but I know I don’t hit the same spot all the time just by looking at clubface wear. It’s all over the place, not the dime size Hogan had on his 1 iron. So I think a test emphasizing forgiveness for off center strikes would be most helpful.
Gecko Brah completely understand Gecko, it's that drop off between good and poor shots that's difficult to replicate between models, to give an accurate and not misleading comparison. Would you be interested in drop offs between good and poor shots? If so would you want every shot left within the data, even though some would skew the data hugely?
@@BaBaBooeyWRLD There's new Apex 19 irons that weren't available at the time we shot the video. Would have been odd including two irons that weren't available any longer.
Luke Warmwater We do though show the data comparing them to the other models. If it's it's Callaway, TaylorMade or Mizuno blades you're interested the videostalk about them and show the difference to other models Mizuno: th-cam.com/video/lsK0dfnw7_o/w-d-xo.html Callaway: th-cam.com/video/c0Qa_kL7buA/w-d-xo.html TaylorMade: th-cam.com/video/MIuDfr9gD1Y/w-d-xo.html
Rock Hammer thanks for the feedback. Each iron was ranked by forgiveness. As we say the slides are later in the video, pause the video to see how each iron compares.
Ben Howard: Thanks for taking the time to feedback. Not quite sure we'd agree. 26 sets split down into forgiveness categories is actually quite useful for a lot of golfers. Throw in data including seven iron loft, shot height and descent angle along with all the usual data expected in a comparison test and it starts to become "quite" useful for golfers potentially looking at a new set of forged irons. Oh and we offer to answer as many questions as golfers can through at us. Agree you only get the full data at the end of the video. Titleist insist testers only hit the clubs they've been fitted for, which mean't our pro could only use one of their irons. To avoid confusion as we wanted to show the differences between models, Titleist were not included.
Thanks for the comment Dan. Not sure we quite agree. Forgiveness, essentially is the MOI. Irons just like drivers or any other club have an MOI value, and the higher it is the more forgiving the club. Hence why Ping can claim their Ping G400 MAX driver is the most forgiving driver on the market...as it has the highest MOI. As brands don't generally like giving out MOI values, we wanted our test to show which irons are in comparable categories to help golfers identify which might best help their game.
Great work folks!
I think it would be awesome if you guys made a video on the best 2nd hand clubs and best bang for your buck! USA please
Thanks for the input Nathan, we'll give it some thought, we are though based in the UK.
The serious golfer will test every club in the store before he buys. I ended up with the Wilson Staff d350 irons, 4 thru wedge, with their graffite shaft. Very forgiving, very long, and a great feel. The price was good, too. The clubs allowed me to hit a nice, predictable draw almost every time, and the ball contact was soft, like butter.
matsfreedom: Thanks for taking the time to feedback, good to hear you ended up with a set you love.
I tested the Mizuno 919 forged and the Srixon 585’s yesterday. Actually preferred the Srixon’s. Are they as well made as the Mizuno’s (who have a great quality reputation)?
Michael Pittana: Both sets are lovely. We were really impressed with the Srixon's too (head shaping, feel and performance data), in our opinion choosing between them comes down to subjective's. Probably worth us pointing out the Mizuno JPX919 Forged and Srixon Z785 are one piece forged. The Srixon Z585 have forged bodies with spring steel faces. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the feed back.....
Excellent and comprehensive test. It will certainly help me narrow down which irons to look closer at next. Strange lack of Titleist clubs. Did they not want to participate???
Adrian Dutton Thanks for taking the time to say so Adrian, glad we can help. Titleist insist we only test clubs that have been fitted to our tester, which would mean we would only have included one set in the test (most probably the AP2). We really wanted to show the difference between categories, it seemed easier, and to avoid confusion to leave them out of this one. Adrian Dutton
Well you left out Callaway Apex irons (pro and reg sets) which are two of the best forged sets around.
Thanks for the comment David, very good point well made. There is a reason, which will become clear within a few very short weeks.
@@simondaddow are new ones coming soon?
Kegmeister OK Can't say too much right now, but everything will be revealed within a few weeks.
Brilliant test. this forged test has to be done every spring and fall. Is The hogan ft. Worth black realy in 1 though they would be in 2-2.5, they looks more forgivening than a pure blade mb.
Thanks for taking the time to say so Anders. Understand your point and absolutely forgiveness is open to debate (it wouldn't need to be if each brand published MOI data for their models). The reason we ranked the Hogan FT Worth black within the category 1 irons, is down to the size. The blade although beautifully shaped is tiny, which obviously affects forgiveness.
Pretty much tells me that really all the clubs listed (plus a few others you did not mention) are good enough for me, a beginner, and it doesn’t matter which ones I buy unless I am concerned about forgiveness which at this point I am not. Once I become, say a 30 handicapper, then I can start to think about “game improvement irons” or decide to punish myself with blades. As long as I take lessons and don’t give up I will do fine with whatever I get.
Thanks for the comment.
Great review. Was very useful. Wish you would have included the Ping i210 though.
Joseph Veltri: Thanks for taking the time to say so. This test was just looking at forged irons and showing the differences, unfortunately the Ping i210 is a cast head. There will be other future tests which the i210 will feature within.
Where would you place the Titleist 718 CB Irons on this list?
They'd be category 2 Erich, a true players iron with zero face tech and no hollow body.
Hi gentlemen I am just about to go out And by my new forged clubs could you please tell me did Mizuno have good shaft options shaft options I play off 16 ??? And have never been fitted before ?. Thanks
Hi Dave, thanks for the question. Yes Mizuno have a fantastic selection of shafts, all of which come for the same cost, which means there's no up-charge.
Hope that helps.
Mizuno it is then !!! thank you gents .
Nicely done. Wish the list had included Bridgestone Forged irons, but I guess you can’t include everything.
Tom Donnelly Thanks for taking the time to comment Tom. Only reason we did not include them is because Bridgestone aren't available in the UK market.
simondaddow really? Interesting I had no idea
Which club had the most forgiveness but a smaller head size (smaller than game improvement larger than blades)? I cant stand chunky clubs but I'm still a 17, although trending down now that I play more often, so obviously I still need the forgiveness.
Hi Andrew, this video is almost couple of years old, the data we created this year for current models might be more helpful. Link to our website below, it also gives drop off's (difference between on and off centre hits) which is a good indicator of forgiveness.
bit.ly/3cIyjFe
Hope that helps.
@@todaysgolfer I don't have that kind of money for 2020 clubs. Too expensive, looking to pick up a nice set of used clubs from a few years ago.
Don't worry, smaller heads will serve you better in the long term.
I was glad to find this review. I have always played solid game improvement / high forgiveness irons (Ping G400, Ping g10). I have improved my handicap from 19 to 15 or so. I was recently fit into the Mazuno 919 Forged irons. They feel fantastic but I was very concerned that these "mid handicap" irons would not offer the amount of forgiveness I need. I was glad to see them fall at the higher end of the forgiveness scale. It helped relieve some of my anxiety so thanks!
Glad we could help Kevin. If you're interested our break down of Mizuno irons (link below) is useful too.
th-cam.com/video/lsK0dfnw7_o/w-d-xo.html
Can a mid-high handicapper use the cobra forged tec blacks?
Cobra say they're for up to about a 14 handicap golfer, but to be honest it's much more about your ball striking than your handicap.
Have you tried them?
This is probably most pointless review I've ever watched ....
You told us nothing you claim in the tag
Forged irons ranked by forgiveness.
Then you put up a chart that no one can read ....
Absolutely useless....
Rodney Greenwell Thanks for the feedback. Not quite sure I'd agree. 26 sets split down into forgiveness categories is actually quite useful for a lot of golfers. Throw in data including seven iron loft, shot height and descent angle along with all the usual data expected in a comparison and it starts to become "quite" useful for golfers potentially looking at a new set of forged irons. Oh and we offer to answer as many questions as golfers can through at us.
Agree you only get the full data at the end of the video.
I was expecting more in depth discussion about the clubs
Not an average ratings of the different groups
IE sin rates , carry distance, peak hight , decent angles of each club
Then when you put the groups up the writing was far to small to read properly when you do a comparison we the viewer want to see the data for all th r clubs not an average.
Rodney Greenwell Understand your point, but we've reviewed quite a few of these irons before. For this test we really wanted to show how much difference there is between each of the categories. And then show the tables with averages for each of the irons involved at the end.
Basically helping golfers establish which category of iron might help them, and then see how each model in that category compares.
An interesting finding also for us, was how just because an iron has a strong loft it didn't mean low flying shots, with low spin and hitting the green at a shallow descent angle. Which is why that was covered off in the wrap up.
They showed the data for each club at the end and which club was in which group. I thought this was excellent.
Adrian Dutton Thanks for taking the time to say so Adrian.
Thanks for this. It gives me some information I can add to my analysis for forged clubs for we mortals. I miss my titlest blades. But I’m to old to hit them well now. I too am awaiting the holy grail. I hit those forgiving irons far but I’ve problems with accuracy. They are no better than my hybrids.
Thanks so much for the feedback, good luck with your search.
Good job - just what I needed. Many thanks.
Joe Boyle Thanks for taking the time to say so Joe Boyle.
Im curious to know how draws, fades, low, and high shot shaping is effected by the different forgiveness levels. And ideas or opinions?
I will attempt an explanation: Because of the way the mass of the club head attaches to the shaft at the heel the distribution of that mass heel-to-toe will affect how the momentum of the swing tries to twist the club head, shaft and hands. One of the problems with the old thin hickory clubs was that the toe forces twisted the shafts differently club-to-club because the shaft had so little resistance to torque and wood isn’t a uniform material. The switch to metal shafts in the 1930s largely eliminated the torque problem and also allowed the shafts to be bent at the top of the swing by dropping the hands down to a lower plane for the downswing, something Byron Nelson is credited as being the originator of that swing style most use today. The introduction of carbon fiber shafts for longer clubs eliminated the torque problem for them and allowed the amount of bend in the shaft and where it occurred to be ‘tuned’ to the speed of golfer’s swing.
The reason for that history lesson is to understand that now because torque isn’t being absorbed by the shafts it gets transmitted to the hands and tries to twist the toe back and face skyward in takeaway move and will in the hands of a beginner who doesn’t apply a grip to the club which prevents it and CONTROLS THE ORIENTATION OF THE TOE.
Why is orientation of the toe in the takeaway important? Because the momentum of the club head mass tends to pull the club in the direction the toe points. When the beginner lets the force acting on the toe mass pronate the lead hand and turns the toe backwards in the takeaway the result is a swing plane which which is too low and too much inside requiring a them to lift the club with muscles.
What Karsten Solheim, founder of PING, discovered in the late 1950s, first with putters, was that if the mass in the club head was redistributed and balanced between heel and toe the tendency for the toe to get pulled open in the backswing and then pulled closed in the downstroke would be minimized. The realized that the ideal situation was when the balance of mass in the club head kept the face square TO THE GOLFER’S NATURAL SWING ARC very much like how today’s self-driving cars use cameras to keep a car between the lines on the road automatically.
A benefit of that heel-to-toe balancing of mass to keep the face automatically square to the swing arc is that ‘toe bias’ no longer tries to twist the club in the hands which makes them more ‘forgiving’ in the sense that a golfer with a poor grip will be better able to control the angle of face and toe in the takeaway which will result in the toe pointing ideally when the force cocks the wrists and pulls arms up and shoulders around hips.
But in the hands of an advanced golfer accustomed to feeling the toe bias trying to twist the club in the hands (but being able to control it) provides constant feed back as to where the toe and face are pointing at key points in the swing. This feedback via the hands becomes even more important when a golfer gets to the level of being able to visualize and shape shots which requires opening the face and stance for fades and closing them for draws. Using MB blades the difference between straight, fade and draw toe alignment can be felt during the swing in the hands of an advanced player with a light but controlled grip on the handle. There is similar feedback provided by heel-toe balanced ‘game improvement’ irons when face and toe are adjusted for fades and draws but it is more subtle.
The other aspect of ‘forgiveness’ which marketing focuses on which is a result of better heel-to-balance is the tendency for the face of the club to deflect when the ball does not hit the ideal point of impact on the club face. The greater the distribution of mass between heel and toe the less the club face will deflect open when impact is too far towards the toe or closed if struck too close to the heel. The result is straighter shots with poorly struck balls.
While the newer technology will improve scores by keeping more balls on the short grass it does nothing to allow the golfer with the inconsistent poor ball striking to understand why it is happening and improve it. It is like shooting yourself in the foot and putting a bandage over the wound without removing the bullet.
Personally I started playing recreationally in the early 1980s with a set of blades and switched to a set of carbon shafted, cavity back ‘improvement’ clubs in the late 90’s. It wasn’t until I retired in 2007 and took a job as a starter at a course (to get free golf) I got serious about improving my swing and the way I did it was by purchasing and re-gripping a set of blade irons from the late 1970s found at a thrift for $2 each and following the advice of Hogan in his ‘Five Lessons… ‘ book. In the book he suggests starting with just a mid-iron (e.g. 7 iron) and perfecting hitting straight shots with 1/4 swings (from takeaway extension to finish extension) before doing anything else then once that is mastered increase swing arc to 1/2, 3/4 then full continuing to focus on hitting straight. That practice drill is brilliant because it eliminates so many variables making it easier to identify swing faults. What I discovered was my grip was allowing my lead hand to pronate and swing the club too far inside in the takeaway and was also pulling the club away from body, target line and ball as the club force turned them over. By gradually increasing the swing arc I discovered at address I had too much weight forward on my feet due to a squatting posture (knees too far over toes) and for that reason as the swing radius and force increased my entire body and swing plane got tilted forward, something I had not ever noticed before until the finish.
It was the feedback of poor shot results with those ‘unforgiving’ blades which allowed me to identify and fix my swing faults. I don’t suggest recreational players compete with blade irons but think that buying an old blade 7 iron from a thrift for $2 and spending another $5 to put a new grip on it will be the best investment one can make to improve their swing. 😀
So I read in the link that you have removed mishits from the data but isn't that exactly the point of forgiveness? To punish you less on mishits? If anything, should you not only be testing on mishits i.e. shots from the heel and toe of the club to see what performs best on bad shots
Eoghan Russell Thanks for the comment. Don't think for a minute the pro only hits shots from the centre of the face. Mishits we typically remove are pulls to the left which fly further, they would skew the data dramatically if we left them in.
We only want to offer the best comparison we can, and never want to mislead consumers by showing data that's down to human error rather than performance of the golf club.
Hope that explains.
Good review. I think it would have been much easier to visually show the data , maybe on GC2 rather than skytrak. So for instance if you were looking for the most forgiving forged iron then simply showing the front to back dispersion would be a far better way of conveying it to the viewer. Assuming you hits dozens of shots with each iron, the data sample would have been big enough to to take account of centre and off centre strikes.
THE GRIFF Thanks for the comment. Will have a look at this for next time.
At 32 seconds in to the video you can see marker dots on the club faces. Are these not for the GC2 to find the club face angle or can the skytrak use these dots also?
acowan84 Good spot. The dots were for our Top Gear testing earlier in the year when we used a GC Quad launch monitor. SkyTrak cannot use these dots.
PXG SGI or PXG XF, steel or graphite regular shafts
What is the difference between the PXG XF and the SGI? You had rated the PXG SGI as one of the best clubs. For a 7 iron would you recommend SGI or XF?
What is the difference in...Swing Weight...of each club and how does it affect performance.
Kenneth Pinkston: Thanks for the question. It would be pretty misleading of us to show swing weight information as lots of the irons were fitted to our test pro, so wouldn't be the spec golfers might buy off the rack. Sorry.
@@todaysgolfer Thank You for your reply. I'm 66 yrs old with a nine handicap and have been in the market for new clubs. I currently have Taylor Made burners and have them loaded up with "Lead Tape" to a swing weight of D-5. I had lost yardage over the years and the added swing weight has helped significantly to regain lost yardage. What are YOUR results in swing weight changes ?
Most clubs bought off the rack are D-2's ....I am curious as to the swing weight of the clubs the test pro uses. Since I discovered that Brooks Henderson uses clubs with a swing weight of D-8 and Dustin Johnson uses a swing weight of D-5-6 I have been curious about the significance of the lighter weighted clubs compared to heavier clubs and the swing speed correlation. I found, with the heavier club the swing speed may go down but the extra weight makes up for the distance.
@@kennethpinkston6664 Completely understand your interest Kenneth. Instead of us putting out specs and data from this test which would be misleading can you bear with us? We'll look into doing a separate test (in the new year) using a single iron model at different swing weights to give an accurate comparison.
@@todaysgolfer Great! I'll be watching for the comparison....
Thanks for doing this
Sterling Hein Thanks for taking the time to say so Sterling.
I was looking for the Ping G400 and G700 irons in this review but they weren't there. Am I missing something? Surely they both deserve a place in the Game Improvement categories?
Mike McLellan Thanks for the question. This test was for forged irons only, it seemed fair to include those that had forged faces too. Ping G400 and G700 are cast not forged. But if you want to know where both sets fit in on our forgiveness rating you can see them here
www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/features/equipment-features/2018/april/best-irons-2018-ranked-by-forgiveness/
The only thing I’ve taken from this post is that The Belfry must be having to watch the pennies if it’s using SkyTrack as opposed to GC Quad or Trackman .
MizunoIronMan Thanks for the comment. The launch monitor doesn't belong to The Belfry (2 + 2 doesn't equal 5), there's several Trackman's there.
JFYI: Our testing has shown SkyTrak to be very good (and comparable to much more expensive launch monitors) for ball data. Obviously it doesn't give club data.
Tell me which irons felt like butter the most. I'll tell you my test too. from 1-10
10 being the best feel for me.
Mp18 mmc 8.4
MP18 blades 7
Srixon z585 8.9
srixon blade 7
TM790 5
TM blades 4.9
Ping i200 7.8
so far.
ice Rad: Thanks for the comment. You're asking about subjectives, so everyone will have their own opinion. Our test pro was very keen on the feel of the Srixon Z785s and the Mizuno MP-18 MB (but he's a blade fan).
Wilson c300 forged. Best value to performance on the market.
Klistern2: Thanks for taking the time to say so. They certainly did really nicely in this test.
Never getting that 10 mins back 😔
daverobertocarlos: Thanks for the feedback
I'm currently using the Cobra Forged Tec irons and as a mid handicap golfer I want to aspire to play a better player iron, therefore i need to know when I've hit a bad shot. Total forgiveness is not the holy grail for me.
How about putting some tape on faces and hit balls on toe and heel and compare forgiveness. Are any heads larger than others? Sweetq spots on some larger?
Not sure skytrak is measuring the whole ball flight so I don't trust the numbers. (The images captured in the first few inches after impact are used to measure all of the ball flight parameters necessary to feed the ball flight )
Descent angles have to be a calculation. Also I'm not bothered to much with descent angles on 7 iron shots I'd be more concerned with pitching wedges and 9 irons stopping on the green.
Thanks for the comment 40yearoldgolfer. We've had SkyTrak, GC Quad and Trackman all in operation together and the numbers are very similar, but understand your point.
Regards descent angle, we included these (and shot height) because of the difference in loft between the seven irons we tested. It allows us to show how closely a strong lofted seven iron can flight shots compared to a standard lofted seven iron (which is often a point of debate).
Pity the Honma Tour World 737 series were not included... Probably would have topped all listed categories...
Patrik Hanson Thanks for the comment Patrik. We are hoping to do some testing with Honma for 2019, especially the new Tour World forged irons....watch this space.
Love this ..
Thanks for taking the time to say so.
No dispersion (forgiveness) numbers?
No Jon, it's because dispersion numbers can be very misleading.
Dispersion is much more a reflection of how a golfer has hit a club on any particular day, not a good indicator for how accurate any particular model is.
We've seen a test pro hit shots into a 5 yard dispersion before, but a week later not be able to hit exactly the same club into a 25 yard dispersion circle.
Essentially you end up analysing the golfer not the club. Front to back drop off's are a better indicator.
callaway Apex? 3 - 3.5?
We have the Apex 19 at 3 and Apex Pro 19 at 2.5 for forgiveness. Does that help?
So what’s the most forgiving forged iron??? Isn’t that the question we’re trying to answer here??
That will be the iron with the highest forgiveness ranking. Which was the PXG 0311 SGI Gen 2 iron, with a forgiveness rating of 4.
Link below to our review if you're interested.
www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/golf-clubs/irons/pxg/pxg-0311-sgi-gen-2-irons/
4:33 best acting ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Interesting that all the clubs launch around the same. High to low is only 1.5 degrees difference and most are within 0.5 while the loft ranges from 29-35 for the 7 irons. Peak height increases with the more forgiving clubs as does the distance. I think that carry distance is going to make a big difference to players with a slower swing speed. They aren't going to get the same spin rates as the pro doing the testing but, for their swing speed, they aren't really losing much spin at all with game improvement irons. I think you've done some myth busting there.
Thanks for taking the time say so Brian, much appreciated.
Nice quest for the holy grail, pity you didn't go into too much detail per segment.
Neal Sokay Thanks for the comment Neal. What would you have really liked us to cover? We tried really hard to make sure the video wasn't 30mins long, but still had something for everyone. We were aware we've also done reviews on most of the individual irons too.
8:57....the PXG was the most forgiving....I just saved you 10 mins.
Today’s Golfer wall of wisdom, now there’s an oxymoron. Only the foolish give simple answers to complex questions.
Derek Whyle Understand your point Derek. Golfers need somewhere to turn for help and advice, we're all about trying to get across some pretty complex facts in a way average club golfers can understand. Agreed there absolutely is no one right solution for everyone.
@@simondaddowThe "average golfer" is a myth. It doesn't exist.
What about dispersion?
Completely understand why you think dispersion should be included Scott. Problem is dispersion really is only a reflection of how well the golfer has hit each club that particular day.
We've seen days when a test pro can hit shots into a 5 yard dispersion circle, but come back a week later and not be able to hit the same club into a 25 yard dispersion circle. So you end up analysing golfer performance, not club performance.
Dispersion numbers can be really misleading, which is why we don't usually give data for it.
What a freaking weirdo intro... clicked away from the vid before even the one minute mark
Robert C: Thanks for the feedback, we wanted to show all the clubs in the intro, but there were too many to hold.
Bats in the Belfry!
Dude don't ever lay down like that again in a video. I won't bother watching
Why would you test blade irons if you are not going to talk about them????
Edu Kim: Thanks for the question. So that we can show in terms of data how blades compare to other forged irons on the market.
P790 are definitely easier to hit than 919 Forged...I know, I traded in my p790’s for the Mizunos and I can’t strike them for shit 😒😂
Thanks for the comment Jesse Bowers
Did you have the same shafts in both sets Jesse?
I don't want to sound harsh but you guys need to find another host for these testing videos. It's like watching the adult version of the inbetweeners - extremely awkward and as engaging as a bag or plain crisps.
Thanks for the feedback Tom.
Make a freakin decision! I’m starting to believe that all online reviews are pointless paid ads. Or is the truth that most clubs are just about the same?
J S: Thanks for the feedback. Were you expecting us to say ONE of the 26 irons we tested was best for everyone? We highlighted our stand out performers. Essentially our aim with this test was to show how much difference there is between the different categories to allow golfers to compare. Sorry say it but there really isn't ONE best performer for everyone.
The truth is that the big brands are overpriced to buggery.
@@Klistern2 Thanks for the comment.
The whole theory about certain clubs only being suitable for certain handicappers is a load of BS. There are a lot of high handicappers who can strike an iron equal to or better then low handicappers. A lot of high HC struggle with drives, chips and putting so putting a blanket handicap number on irons should be taken with a grain of salt.
natewayna: Couldn't agree more. It's exactly why we don't label any particular category with a handicap range. From our experience more golfers are interested in finding out about the irons that might suit them and how they compare to the others within a particular category.
Just because an iron has 7 stamped on the bottom doesn’t make for a good comparison. The loft greatly impacts the spin, distance, decent angle and forgiveness. This is pretty useless as a comparison video, for this reason and using category averages. Not sure what the discussion table goal was for this video, other than click bait. Kinda disappointed
ChrisHelen McIntosh Thanks for feedback.
Understand why you feel comparing seven irons of different lofts isn't a good idea. But what came out of the test is how stronger lofted seven irons can launch shots just as high, with as much spin, and drop shots onto a green at the same descent angle as weaker lofted models. If we tested a strong lofted 8 iron against a 7, shots would be called out for flying too high, with too much spin yet they fly same distance.The whole idea was to show the difference.
We put up data tables for all 26 clubs involved at the end of the video, they're also on our website here bit.ly/2QkPRx1 The whole idea was allowing golfers to see how different irons in the category they may buy within compare.
By including category averages we also show how much golfers might be putting on the line by choosing a set above their ability.
So you’re saying that stronger lofted improvement more forgiving irons give the same spin rates and greater decent angles as blades. Wow. No one should ever use anything else. Except that we don’t all get to hit off flat perfect mat lies. But seriously if improvement irons give the same spin rates, better decent angles and more distance why don’t pros use them?
@@mcfisherclan We haven't said either are better.The test shows how strong and traditional loft irons compare, so golfers are more informed.
There's a few reasons why more pro's don't play them right now. ONE: Most don't want to make the trade-off in terms of head size to get extra forgiveness or distance. TWO: Most pro's aren't chasing distance, they're much more concerned about hitting shots to a consistent tight radius of the flag (where a lot of club golfers would give their right arm for an extra 7 -8 yards from a seven iron). THREE: 95% of tour events are won with forged irons, often strong loft irons are cast not forged.
For us loft isn't the hottest subject right now... hollow body irons are. An industry insider told us recently how it's the young players that are growing up using hollow irons now, who will be the tour players of tomorrow. And typically hollow irons have stronger lofts than traditional forged blades...so watch this space overt next 3 - 5 years.
Why don’t you have an 18 handicapper hitting the game improvement irons? The pro can hit anything, using a real mid handicapper would be much more realistic as to what WE might expect.
Gecko Brah Thanks for the comment Gecko. Good question, in a perfect world we would. But we've found the issue with using higher handicap golfers for comparative testing is the ability to replicate strike. Giving out data which allows comparison (between models), when we know there's been more "better" strikes with a particular model just feels misleading.
Using a higher handicapper for the game improver models also means you don't get comparative data between each category, which we feel for this test is a useful part. It means golfers can see what's put on the line by choosing a forgiveness category 2 iron over those in category 3.
Hope that helps, we're not ruling out higher handicap testing, it would just need to be within the right test.
Simon thanks for reply. But the forgiveness factor for strikes that are NOT replicated is one of the most important characteristics for the mid to high hcp golfer. I’m a 13 but I know I don’t hit the same spot all the time just by looking at clubface wear. It’s all over the place, not the dime size Hogan had on his 1 iron. So I think a test emphasizing forgiveness for off center strikes would be most helpful.
Gecko Brah completely understand Gecko, it's that drop off between good and poor shots that's difficult to replicate between models, to give an accurate and not misleading comparison. Would you be interested in drop offs between good and poor shots? If so would you want every shot left within the data, even though some would skew the data hugely?
Where is callaway lol
Billbo Beaney: Thanks for the comment, there's a very good reason why we only included the Callaway Apex MB. You'll find out in a few weeks.
Today's Golfer and that is?
@@BaBaBooeyWRLD There's new Apex 19 irons that weren't available at the time we shot the video. Would have been odd including two irons that weren't available any longer.
Just wasted 5 mins so that you could tell me you were not going to show blades. Won't make the same mistake twice by ever watching your channel again!
Luke Warmwater We do though show the data comparing them to the other models.
If it's it's Callaway, TaylorMade or Mizuno blades you're interested the videostalk about them and show the difference to other models
Mizuno: th-cam.com/video/lsK0dfnw7_o/w-d-xo.html
Callaway: th-cam.com/video/c0Qa_kL7buA/w-d-xo.html
TaylorMade: th-cam.com/video/MIuDfr9gD1Y/w-d-xo.html
Waited 10 minutes for a ranking Did not get any. Waste of time. Waited for a result and got manufacters are working on it
Rock Hammer thanks for the feedback.
Each iron was ranked by forgiveness. As we say the slides are later in the video, pause the video to see how each iron compares.
No Ping 410
It's not forged Michael.
i love the sexy intro
Hahaha....it wasn't meant to be sexy, we just couldn't hold all the irons together.
I am not sure I learned anything from that.
Eric Herring: Thanks for the feedback. Did you not see the data charts allowing comparison between 26 different models?
Did you not test anything from Titleist? I think you accomplished virtually nothing.
Ben Howard: Thanks for taking the time to feedback.
Not quite sure we'd agree. 26 sets split down into forgiveness categories is actually quite useful for a lot of golfers. Throw in data including seven iron loft, shot height and descent angle along with all the usual data expected in a comparison test and it starts to become "quite" useful for golfers potentially looking at a new set of forged irons. Oh and we offer to answer as many questions as golfers can through at us.
Agree you only get the full data at the end of the video.
Titleist insist testers only hit the clubs they've been fitted for, which mean't our pro could only use one of their irons. To avoid confusion as we wanted to show the differences between models, Titleist were not included.
Forgiveness is not a measurable factor. There is no formula to figure. Only subjective opinion.
Thanks for the comment Dan. Not sure we quite agree. Forgiveness, essentially is the MOI. Irons just like drivers or any other club have an MOI value, and the higher it is the more forgiving the club. Hence why Ping can claim their Ping G400 MAX driver is the most forgiving driver on the market...as it has the highest MOI.
As brands don't generally like giving out MOI values, we wanted our test to show which irons are in comparable categories to help golfers identify which might best help their game.
What's with the porno intro?
James D Hehehehe, it's because we couldn't hold all the irons in two hands. Only idea we could come up with at the time was to lay them down.
Terrible - how not to inform
david groom: Thanks for the feedback, what didn't you like in particular?
That opening shot is just...🤦🏻♂️
Kyle Jeffery: Haha...we wanted to include all 20 odd clubs in the opener, but it was too many to hold.