📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴️ 🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🥨 To learn more about bread making click here ⤵️ Principles of Baking bit.ly/principles-of-baking The Steps of Baking bit.ly/steps-of-baking
Your channel is an example of the best of TH-cam. Essential information delivered in a pleasant, informative, and easy-to-access manner. I didn't know I needed to learn this until I viewed it. Now I see that it is nearly indispensable.
Great video. However, I've been baking for a few years and at one point I did a whole lot of experimenting with autolyse. While everything you said is correct in theory, my conclusions where that it didn't make any difference in the final bread, whether or not I made an autolyse without yeast and salt or if I just added everything together at let it sit. I will always suggest people who knead by hand to autolyse in the sense of hydrating and it letting break down and reform gluten all by it self. But the extra steps of adding yeast and salt later I personally leave out. But of course i think everybody should make their own experiments. Ultimately we get better at baking by experience, not by text-books. Again, great video. And merry christmas!
Thank you, Daniel. You got me curious now. I have never actually made a side by side comparison of those two methods. Gonna have to do some experiments and make a video on it. Thanks for the idea. I personally don't add yeast because I figure that I don't want any fermentation before I start kneading the dough. When I make naturally leavened bread I do add the leaven to the autolyse because it will take ages to rise anyway. I totally agree with your last statement and that is what this channel is all about. Thank you so much for the input. Happy Holidays!
Thank you for this helpful video. I always find it hard to knead a high hydration dough because I don't have a mixer and only do it by hand. I'll try the autolyse technic next time 👍👍👍
Chain Baker, I just want to say that I did allow time to hydrate just as I said. My bakes are much easier just as you said, and just as you said the results are much higher quality. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this. I have few questions. When you autolyse, do you use warm water, room temperature water, or cold water? Then after you leave your flour for an hour or so, you mentioned that yeast and salt should be added. How do you do that, just fold them together with the autolysed flour? So much to learn in bread making. Thanks for your time.
I use water that is at an appropriate temperature depending on how warm my kitchen is so as to avoid having a dough that is too warn after mixing. I’d say if your kitchen is around 18-20C then use room temperature water. If it’s cooler then raise the temp and if it’s warmer then lower it accordingly. To add salt and yeast just spread the dough out, wet your hands and rub the yeast in dissolving it at the same time. Add the salt after the yeast in the same way. The main goal is to dissolve any salt crystals and hydrate the yeast. ;)
Ok noted. Is it important to autolyse everytime we bake bread? Just re- watched your bread making video part 3 and seemed like you mixed all flour, water, salt, and yeast altogether. Thanks again for all your tips!
Autolyse is a step for certain breads. If you are making a dough with a larger proportion of water then autolyse will help. You are making a regular loaf of bread then it is not neccessary :)
Very informative! I recently followed a bread recipe and i just feel in love with how it made my whole family smile. So i wanted to start making more! I found you, so forgive me if this is a dumb question but when should i add the yeast and salt after the autolyse? And do i let the yeast, salt and warm water set for 5 minutes before adding? Also is it okay to use milk instead of water? Thank you so much have a blessed day! ✝️🙏
Here's a video about it - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html All about milk: 1) th-cam.com/video/Ku9wAbLbI9A/w-d-xo.html 2) th-cam.com/video/-3zDtd5lYDc/w-d-xo.html
Excellent video Chainbaker, if you don't mind I have two questions for you. I am considering using autolyse to cut down on mixing time and reducing dough temperature rise due to mixing when I make bagels (low hydration, around 57%). I typically make fairly decent size batches of about 4 Kg of dough and use a spiral mixer. How long should I autolyse when using (a) 50/50 mix of high-gluten white flour (14.2%) and whole wheat flour (13.8%); and also (b) when using all whole wheat flour (13.8%)? Thank you for this fabulous video series!
Thank you so much for watching :) knowing the principles is definitely worth more than just knowing a recipe :) Here is a full guide on how to add yeast and salt to autolyse - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html 👍
How do you add the yeast to a dough like that? If you put the yeast powder will it mix in an already formed dough? Like, it would make sense to put the yeast or the activated yeast in the flour at the beginning to properly mix it with the flour but how do you add it to the already made dough?
This method is most suited for high hydration lean dough. If you're making something with milk I'd guess it's an enriched bread which gains no benefit from autolyse imo
Hey I hate to tell you but in the drop-down I tried the " Find all the things I use here " and neither link worked just went to a blank page. FYI. Great video thank you for taking the time to make it for us dummies. Very through.
Thank you Bill. I'm glad you're finding this information useful 👍 That is strange. The links should work. I tried them both and they took me to my amazon stores as usual. Perhaps you could try again later. Maybe there was an issue that has since been fixed. Cheers!
Good question. You sure can, but of course your dough will be totally cold so fermentation time will have to be longer. I get it if you want to do it overnight as a convenience or to fit your schedule. But autolysing for so long does not add any benefit to the dough. 2 hours is the most you would ever need 👍🏻🙂
Just wondering: does the autolyse process strengthen or weaken the gluten? At 1:33 you say it “develops” the gluten but in other videos, specifically the overmixing video you use an autolyse when trying to overmix because you say it weakens the gluten. Maybe I am getting confused and strength/weakness is not the same as development.
It develops it in a sense that it helps hydrate the flour and that can shorten the kneading process. If then the dough is kneaded too much it can break down because it has already over developed (I guess that could be a term 😅). Autolyse definitely weakens the gluten a bit. It can make the dough looser and give the final loaf a larger volume since it can rise more easily as it bakes. So, 'weakens' may sound bad, but the weakening is mostly intentional and beneficial. I personally use autolyse to make hand kneading easier and that's about it.
Nice and and well explained video! May you answer what's wrong with 'overmixing' ? Yes, It will rise the temperature of dough but why it's a real problem? What the aftermath it cause?
Over mixing is pretty much impossible by hand. But the temperature can certainly get too high. This will cause the dough to ferment too rapidly and risk over proofing. A controlled fermentation is what we want.
Usually dough spends so much time in the fridge that the flour fully hydrates anyway. I have not noticed anything unusual. It is more extensible because it spends so much time relaxing and may need tighter shaping, but that is about it as far as I can tell.
Hey! Thank you :) When it comes to no knead breads they develop gluten during that long rise. And also because there is no kneading involved then I don’t see a way to incorporate the salt and yeast after the autolysation step. You would end up kneading the no-knead bread and that would make it lose its purpose. 👍🏻
This autolyse is a great process for 70% hydration. If I want to do this for making pizza and then long ferment in the fridge. According to your previous post we have to go for ice water so we can keep the temp down. By letting the flour and water sit for 30 minutes or more, wont this affect the final temp of the dough? If for example we have to go for a final temp dough of 23C and let it rise for at least 30 minutes to start the rising process before putting it in the fridge for an additional 24 hours. What would the process be in this case? I apologize for all the questions but you are the master :) Thank you so much for all the help!
Is there an ideal amount of time I should autolyse for? Also ... can gluten weaken if left too long? I started using this process a few days ago BUT I left the dough in the fridge for close to 24 hours. I am going to leave my next batch of dough overnight out on my table. We do not have a large freezer, yet I want to develop a routine so my family can always enjoy fresh bread, hence trialing this method
There is no need to autlyse for more than a couple of hours. Even an hour will make the flour fully absorb the water. The process itself makes the gluten weaker in a sense since the dough becomes more stretchy afterwards.
I have been struggling with fully incorporating all ingredients into the autolysed dough. My final product ends up with chunks and bits of extra dense gluten throughout, and I'm not certain what I am doing incorrectly. What might be some causes for this?
@@ChainBaker leave to hydrate? I thought preferment and autolyse are going at the same time in separate bowl and once they're finished with their job, continue mixing until windowpane test passed? correct me if I'm wrong though, your channel intrigued me to do some experiments!
Quite often the preferment will contain so much water that there would not be enough left for the autolyse that is why it is more practical to first make the preferment, then let it rise and only when it has risen add the autolyse ingredients to the preferment and leave to hydrate and only then add the remaining yeast, salt, etc.
Do you mean the ratio between flour and water? The dough in this example is 70% hydration. More on baker's percentages here - th-cam.com/video/v9tPXTlbYxM/w-d-xo.html :)
I only use it for higher hydration bread to help me developing gluten thus making the kneading process easier. You can use it for lower hydration dough too. It will reduce mixing time also, but more importantly it will make the dough more extensible helping it puff up more and expand as it is baking and that is once good reason to use it then. But I never use it for anything below 70%.
Good question. Which I should have answered in this video in hindsight 😄 here is a not yet released video answering it - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
Your videos are amazing thank you. I just have some questions. Can the dough develop gluten at ice cold temperatures? When I baked multiple baguette, I have a problem where they would rise as I go and they would be uneven because the first one got a head start in rising. Would working with cold dough correct this problem?
Hey! Thanks for watching :) i would not suggest having ice cold dough because then it would take forever to rise. 24-26C is just about right depending on how warm your kitchen is. If you don’t have enough space in your oven for all the baguettes then I would suggest placing the spare ones in the fridge while the other ones are baking. This will slow them down and prevent overfermenting.
@@ChainBaker Thank you for replying. When you have to make mass quantity’s of dough and the goal is to bake it all at once in a commercial oven. How do you keep the finished dough from rising before we finished the rest and let it proof all together at the same rate. Do you use the refrigeration method also where you would leave the finish trays in the refrigerator until all has done and proof it all at once?
In a commerical bakery you’d have more hands on deck to get the shaping done quickly I reckon. The dough can be placed in the fridge right after shaping until the last shapes have been done. And then perhaps take it all out and it should more or less ferment at the same rate. When baking of course not all might fit in the oven in one batch so refrigeration would defnitely help again 👍🏻
Are there any cons to this? I mostly just do basic whead breads, sometimes with little wholegrain mixed. I dont mind 30 mins added, but i usually mix my dry yeast in the water before i add flour.
I would not say that there are any cons to this method. There could only be improper application. It is only really useful for higher hydration dough to help out with gluten development and cut down on mixing time. It is especially useful for no-knead breads. Another effect is has is that it makes the dough more extensible and able to expand more as it is baking. That can be desirable or undesirable depending on what kind of bread is being made. Here is my video explaining why autolyse is practically useless for enriched dough - th-cam.com/video/uK3p4rBpW1g/w-d-xo.html Here is another video explaining how to add salt & yeast to autolyse - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html These may answer some of your questions :)
Would you say that this is a REQUIRED step when using fresh milled wheat? I've been having a HELL of a time getting my fresh ground (Hard White Wheat) formulas to give me an airy well-risen loaf. Using Baker's Percentage, I'm getting a WONDERFUL flavor, but the loaf just doesn't rise enough. I let it rise yesterday for 4 hours...It barely filled the pan. Then I stuck it in the fridge as I didn't want to bake it at 11pm. Woke up, let it rise for 2 more hours and baked it. The loaf was soft...It was REALLY tasty and has a great crust. The ONLY problem is that it was still only about the height of the bread pan. So, back to the drawing board I go and the only two things I can think of. I need to autolyze OR I'm undermixing? I really don't want to go back to store bought flour. Oh and I've seen people that do autolyze but they add an acid like lemon juice, vinegar, and saw one that used Yogurt???
I don't have any practical experience with freshly milled flour, so I can't be certain. Autolyse will help it expand more as it bakes, so that may just fill your pan sufficiently. Give it a try. Acid can help with gluten development, so they might be on to something there.
@@ChainBaker LOL, you should try using fresh ground. Flavor wise and appetite suppression, it's an eye opener. So, I did the Autolyze for 2 hours. The dough seemed to dry out a bit. I added the other ingredients and IT DID rise more than my last formula. When I cooked it...lol. It fell. Guess I got too much air in it. So...back to the drawing board. (Method-wise. The flavor is there.)
I'm a bit late to the party on this one! :) Is it the function of simply letting the water and the flour sit together and mingle for a prolonged period that conveys the benefits? I primarily make pizza (although i make various breads from time to time). My go to methodology is to incorporate all the ingredients, let it sit for 30 mins; then do 3 - 4 rounds of stretch and fold+30mins rest. This is very labour UN-intensive although it does take about 2 hours from start to finish. I've used autolyse (and fermento-lyse) from time to time but is this essentially creating the same effect (gluten networks/strength/extensibility etc...) with one long resting session with just water and flour vs numerous slightly shorter resting sessions with all ingredients. Is it an either/or situation? I've never noticed a difference between the times i've done an autolyse and times i've just done the rounds of stretch and fold...but i've also never done a side by side comparison. Curious to hear your thoughts... :)
Good question. I generally use the quick method with all ingredients mixed at once for lower hydration dough which does not require a long autolyse. Anything that is high hydro takes a bit longer and if it needs longer, then it would be advisable to leave the yeast out since kneading a fermented dough could be detrimental to the end result. But I feel like I should do a side by side experiment just to see the difference. Cheers!
*What did I do rough?* Other loaf same amount of ingredients was fine! I add ALL my flour and all water like you did for autolyse. After 60 min it was soft, window test was good. Add everything; let it rise a second time, one inch above the rim. *Did poke test*. Took it out of the oven and the bread collapsed to a point even with the rim.
Hi there, I've started baking bread for almost two months. However, after trying a lot times with different recipes, I still can't seem to be able to achieve the perfect windowpane like those in ur videos. I do have a pair of sweaty hands, but I've tried kneading with nitrile gloves also, but it's harder to knead and doesn't work perfectly tho. Does sweaty hands affect the process of kneading? Sometimes I'm wondering could the water content in the dough affect the windowpane, but I've watched ur video about different hydration tho, so water shouldn't be the problem here... Also, if recipes call for water, can I substitute milk interchangeably with 1:1 ratio? Does using milk result in a more tasty bread and what kind of milk is better (full fat, skim, low fat)? Sorry for tons of question here... I've tried kneading longer too but as u said in ur video kneading longer will heat up the dough which lead to more problems ....
I don't think your hands should affect it that much. I personally almost never to the windowpane test. Just knead until the dough becomes nice and cohesive and less sticky. When you pull it should resist. Here is a video about milk - th-cam.com/video/Ku9wAbLbI9A/w-d-xo.html :)
I have a recipe with seeds and flaked oats. Should I add them in for the Autolyse step or wait until after? The recipe also has some honey and oil that I think should be added after, right? Background: I have really enjoyed your content and experimentation style. I got into baking more during COVID but I mostly have been using my bread machine to make the dough. I have been making a batch of "seeded whole wheat breakfast rolls" about once a week for over a year. My last batch was the first I tried fully by hand. The kneading process was messy, long and the dough never really came together like yours does. The resulting rolls tasted fine but were thick and dense. I decided to add in a Autolyse step. I was not sure about the seeds and oats, so I added them in. I could try both ways, but figured I would ask the expert!
There is no benefit to leaving it for more than a couple of hours, but you can leave it for longer. At room temperature it may start developing some strange flavours if left too long though.
📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴️
🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️
www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker
🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️
🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker
🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker
🥨 To learn more about bread making click here ⤵️
Principles of Baking bit.ly/principles-of-baking
The Steps of Baking bit.ly/steps-of-baking
What method would you use to add salt and yeast please
th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
Your channel is an example of the best of TH-cam. Essential information delivered in a pleasant, informative, and easy-to-access manner. I didn't know I needed to learn this until I viewed it. Now I see that it is nearly indispensable.
Amen to that! I've been binging two days so far.
Great video. However, I've been baking for a few years and at one point I did a whole lot of experimenting with autolyse. While everything you said is correct in theory, my conclusions where that it didn't make any difference in the final bread, whether or not I made an autolyse without yeast and salt or if I just added everything together at let it sit. I will always suggest people who knead by hand to autolyse in the sense of hydrating and it letting break down and reform gluten all by it self. But the extra steps of adding yeast and salt later I personally leave out. But of course i think everybody should make their own experiments. Ultimately we get better at baking by experience, not by text-books.
Again, great video. And merry christmas!
Thank you, Daniel. You got me curious now. I have never actually made a side by side comparison of those two methods. Gonna have to do some experiments and make a video on it. Thanks for the idea.
I personally don't add yeast because I figure that I don't want any fermentation before I start kneading the dough. When I make naturally leavened bread I do add the leaven to the autolyse because it will take ages to rise anyway.
I totally agree with your last statement and that is what this channel is all about.
Thank you so much for the input. Happy Holidays!
Amazing! 🤯 my head exploded right now watching this video,,, so many questions answered with issues I’ve been having. Thank you
This is crucial for freshly milled flour, as I have discovered by experience kneading for ages haha.
Thank you for this helpful video. I always find it hard to knead a high hydration dough because I don't have a mixer and only do it by hand. I'll try the autolyse technic next time 👍👍👍
It will definitely make the job a lot easier :) check you my other videos. All of the recipes on my channel are for hand kneaded dough 👍🏻
Thank you...another great one...could you do step by step those perfect doughnuts with white ring, that are super delicious...thanks
Ein Mann der Wissenschaft!!!💯💗
Absolutely amazing, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! 🙏
thank you for this video especially the comparison.
You’re a life changer!
🙏
This is a game changer. Thank you.
Thank you 😊
Thanks! I will definitely allow hydration now. I'm surprised at what a difference it makes.
Chain Baker, I just want to say that I did allow time to hydrate just as I said. My bakes are much easier just as you said, and just as you said the results are much higher quality.
Thank you.
Thank you for the tip. I’ll definitely try it out on my next bake
Thank you
Thank you for sharing this. I have few questions. When you autolyse, do you use warm water, room temperature water, or cold water? Then after you leave your flour for an hour or so, you mentioned that yeast and salt should be added. How do you do that, just fold them together with the autolysed flour? So much to learn in bread making. Thanks for your time.
I use water that is at an appropriate temperature depending on how warm my kitchen is so as to avoid having a dough that is too warn after mixing. I’d say if your kitchen is around 18-20C then use room temperature water. If it’s cooler then raise the temp and if it’s warmer then lower it accordingly. To add salt and yeast just spread the dough out, wet your hands and rub the yeast in dissolving it at the same time. Add the salt after the yeast in the same way. The main goal is to dissolve any salt crystals and hydrate the yeast. ;)
You could also leave a bit of water behind and dissolve the salt separetely and then add it to the autolysed dough.
Same goes for the yeast of course. Just don’t mix them as the salt will kill the yeast.
Ok noted. Is it important to autolyse everytime we bake bread? Just re- watched your bread making video part 3 and seemed like you mixed all flour, water, salt, and yeast altogether. Thanks again for all your tips!
Autolyse is a step for certain breads. If you are making a dough with a larger proportion of water then autolyse will help. You are making a regular loaf of bread then it is not neccessary :)
That's such useful info
Do you have a book on the market that covers a lot of what you teach on TH-cam? Thank you
This channel is my book 👍
I love it all. Thank you!!!@@ChainBaker
Very informative! I recently followed a bread recipe and i just feel in love with how it made my whole family smile. So i wanted to start making more! I found you, so forgive me if this is a dumb question but when should i add the yeast and salt after the autolyse? And do i let the yeast, salt and warm water set for 5 minutes before adding? Also is it okay to use milk instead of water?
Thank you so much have a blessed day! ✝️🙏
Here's a video about it - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
All about milk:
1) th-cam.com/video/Ku9wAbLbI9A/w-d-xo.html
2) th-cam.com/video/-3zDtd5lYDc/w-d-xo.html
Great video, I only wish you talked about the weights of the flour and water you were using
The amounts don't really matter. It's all about percentages. Here is a video about it - th-cam.com/video/v9tPXTlbYxM/w-d-xo.html
@@ChainBaker dear sir, it appears in your video that you are weighing the flour and water.
Excellent video Chainbaker, if you don't mind I have two questions for you. I am considering using autolyse to cut down on mixing time and reducing dough temperature rise due to mixing when I make bagels (low hydration, around 57%). I typically make fairly decent size batches of about 4 Kg of dough and use a spiral mixer. How long should I autolyse when using (a) 50/50 mix of high-gluten white flour (14.2%) and whole wheat flour (13.8%); and also (b) when using all whole wheat flour (13.8%)? Thank you for this fabulous video series!
Autolyse does not have to be very long. 30 - 60 minutes is more than enough. The more whole wheat the longer I'd say.
Thank you😊❤️❤️
Thank you for putting time to create this basic baking series. well done. By the way, can one include the yeast in the water for autolyse?
Thank you so much for watching :) knowing the principles is definitely worth more than just knowing a recipe :)
Here is a full guide on how to add yeast and salt to autolyse - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html 👍
Thank you.
Anytime!
very interesting
How do you add the yeast to a dough like that? If you put the yeast powder will it mix in an already formed dough? Like, it would make sense to put the yeast or the activated yeast in the flour at the beginning to properly mix it with the flour but how do you add it to the already made dough?
Leave some water behind and mix the yeast with it before adding.
Question if I may, how do you know the measurement for your Autolyse?
What do you mean? The autolyse contains all the flour of the recipe and most of the water. Just leave enough for dissolving the yeast and salt.
@@ChainBaker oh that clears it up, cheers... at first watch, I thought the autolyse was a recipe on it own.
hello! Is it possible to use milk instead of water for autolysation? Will it gives the same result? thank you!
This method is most suited for high hydration lean dough. If you're making something with milk I'd guess it's an enriched bread which gains no benefit from autolyse imo
Hey I hate to tell you but in the drop-down I tried the " Find all the things I use here " and neither link worked just went to a blank page. FYI. Great video thank you for taking the time to make it for us dummies. Very through.
Thank you Bill. I'm glad you're finding this information useful 👍
That is strange. The links should work. I tried them both and they took me to my amazon stores as usual. Perhaps you could try again later. Maybe there was an issue that has since been fixed. Cheers!
hi charlie, can i make this overnight and store it in the fridge? tq in advance!
Good question. You sure can, but of course your dough will be totally cold so fermentation time will have to be longer. I get it if you want to do it overnight as a convenience or to fit your schedule. But autolysing for so long does not add any benefit to the dough. 2 hours is the most you would ever need 👍🏻🙂
@@ChainBaker tq guru(you are my bread guru now for sure)😁
Just wondering: does the autolyse process strengthen or weaken the gluten? At 1:33 you say it “develops” the gluten but in other videos, specifically the overmixing video you use an autolyse when trying to overmix because you say it weakens the gluten. Maybe I am getting confused and strength/weakness is not the same as development.
It develops it in a sense that it helps hydrate the flour and that can shorten the kneading process. If then the dough is kneaded too much it can break down because it has already over developed (I guess that could be a term 😅).
Autolyse definitely weakens the gluten a bit. It can make the dough looser and give the final loaf a larger volume since it can rise more easily as it bakes. So, 'weakens' may sound bad, but the weakening is mostly intentional and beneficial.
I personally use autolyse to make hand kneading easier and that's about it.
Nice and and well explained video! May you answer what's wrong with 'overmixing' ? Yes, It will rise the temperature of dough but why it's a real problem? What the aftermath it cause?
Over mixing is pretty much impossible by hand. But the temperature can certainly get too high. This will cause the dough to ferment too rapidly and risk over proofing. A controlled fermentation is what we want.
@@ChainBaker I see, thank you.
Can you Tangzhong high hydration flour like freshly milled whole wheat?
I don't see why not.
@@ChainBaker Thank you!
Fascinating step, why not let chemistry do the work?
Question: If I wanted to make a honey bread, would I add the honey with the water and flour or would I add the honey after the dough has autolysed?
I would add it afterwards. If your bread contains fat, then you should watch this - th-cam.com/video/uK3p4rBpW1g/w-d-xo.html
Does refrigeration affect the rate of autolyzation?
Usually dough spends so much time in the fridge that the flour fully hydrates anyway. I have not noticed anything unusual. It is more extensible because it spends so much time relaxing and may need tighter shaping, but that is about it as far as I can tell.
Great channel - thank you! Is there any benefit to autolyse a no-knead recipe, where there is a long rise anyway?
Hey! Thank you :)
When it comes to no knead breads they develop gluten during that long rise. And also because there is no kneading involved then I don’t see a way to incorporate the salt and yeast after the autolysation step. You would end up kneading the no-knead bread and that would make it lose its purpose. 👍🏻
This autolyse is a great process for 70% hydration. If I want to do this for making pizza and then long ferment in the fridge. According to your previous post we have to go for ice water so we can keep the temp down. By letting the flour and water sit for 30 minutes or more, wont this affect the final temp of the dough? If for example we have to go for a final temp dough of 23C and let it rise for at least 30 minutes to start the rising process before putting it in the fridge for an additional 24 hours. What would the process be in this case? I apologize for all the questions but you are the master :) Thank you so much for all the help!
You can cool down the flour too to control final dough temp
Is there an ideal amount of time I should autolyse for? Also ... can gluten weaken if left too long? I started using this process a few days ago BUT I left the dough in the fridge for close to 24 hours. I am going to leave my next batch of dough overnight out on my table. We do not have a large freezer, yet I want to develop a routine so my family can always enjoy fresh bread, hence trialing this method
There is no need to autlyse for more than a couple of hours. Even an hour will make the flour fully absorb the water. The process itself makes the gluten weaker in a sense since the dough becomes more stretchy afterwards.
I have been struggling with fully incorporating all ingredients into the autolysed dough. My final product ends up with chunks and bits of extra dense gluten throughout, and I'm not certain what I am doing incorrectly. What might be some causes for this?
1) th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
2) th-cam.com/video/uK3p4rBpW1g/w-d-xo.html
can you incorporate autolyse and preferment? so we make autolyse and preferment at different bowl in one recipe
Make your preferment, let it rise and then add the autolyse ingredients to the preferment and leave to hydrate and continue as normal.
@@ChainBaker leave to hydrate? I thought preferment and autolyse are going at the same time in separate bowl and once they're finished with their job, continue mixing until windowpane test passed? correct me if I'm wrong though, your channel intrigued me to do some experiments!
Quite often the preferment will contain so much water that there would not be enough left for the autolyse that is why it is more practical to first make the preferment, then let it rise and only when it has risen add the autolyse ingredients to the preferment and leave to hydrate and only then add the remaining yeast, salt, etc.
Can you autolyse with milk? If you can, do you need to keep it refrigerated?
Definitely. I've found that there is no benefit to leaving it for more than 2 hours, so you don't need to worry about refrigerating.
... when and how do you mix the yeasr and salt?
th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
So intersting videos i found
What is the ratio?
Do you mean the ratio between flour and water? The dough in this example is 70% hydration. More on baker's percentages here - th-cam.com/video/v9tPXTlbYxM/w-d-xo.html
:)
Are there certain breads that don't benefit from autolyse or is this something that is always recommended to do?
I only use it for higher hydration bread to help me developing gluten thus making the kneading process easier. You can use it for lower hydration dough too. It will reduce mixing time also, but more importantly it will make the dough more extensible helping it puff up more and expand as it is baking and that is once good reason to use it then. But I never use it for anything below 70%.
A question, how would you add dry yeast after autolysing the dough?
Good question. Which I should have answered in this video in hindsight 😄 here is a not yet released video answering it - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
@@ChainBaker Thanks a lot for the swift response and great content.
Thank you for watching :)
Your videos are amazing thank you. I just have some questions. Can the dough develop gluten at ice cold temperatures? When I baked multiple baguette, I have a problem where they would rise as I go and they would be uneven because the first one got a head start in rising. Would working with cold dough correct this problem?
Hey! Thanks for watching :) i would not suggest having ice cold dough because then it would take forever to rise. 24-26C is just about right depending on how warm your kitchen is. If you don’t have enough space in your oven for all the baguettes then I would suggest placing the spare ones in the fridge while the other ones are baking. This will slow them down and prevent overfermenting.
@@ChainBaker Thank you for replying. When you have to make mass quantity’s of dough and the goal is to bake it all at once in a commercial oven. How do you keep the finished dough from rising before we finished the rest and let it proof all together at the same rate. Do you use the refrigeration method also where you would leave the finish trays in the refrigerator until all has done and proof it all at once?
In a commerical bakery you’d have more hands on deck to get the shaping done quickly I reckon. The dough can be placed in the fridge right after shaping until the last shapes have been done. And then perhaps take it all out and it should more or less ferment at the same rate. When baking of course not all might fit in the oven in one batch so refrigeration would defnitely help again 👍🏻
Are there any cons to this? I mostly just do basic whead breads, sometimes with little wholegrain mixed.
I dont mind 30 mins added, but i usually mix my dry yeast in the water before i add flour.
I would not say that there are any cons to this method. There could only be improper application. It is only really useful for higher hydration dough to help out with gluten development and cut down on mixing time. It is especially useful for no-knead breads. Another effect is has is that it makes the dough more extensible and able to expand more as it is baking. That can be desirable or undesirable depending on what kind of bread is being made.
Here is my video explaining why autolyse is practically useless for enriched dough - th-cam.com/video/uK3p4rBpW1g/w-d-xo.html
Here is another video explaining how to add salt & yeast to autolyse - th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html
These may answer some of your questions :)
Thank you! Currently watching your whole series, so ill probably comment even more
Would you say that this is a REQUIRED step when using fresh milled wheat? I've been having a HELL of a time getting my fresh ground (Hard White Wheat) formulas to give me an airy well-risen loaf. Using Baker's Percentage, I'm getting a WONDERFUL flavor, but the loaf just doesn't rise enough. I let it rise yesterday for 4 hours...It barely filled the pan. Then I stuck it in the fridge as I didn't want to bake it at 11pm. Woke up, let it rise for 2 more hours and baked it. The loaf was soft...It was REALLY tasty and has a great crust. The ONLY problem is that it was still only about the height of the bread pan.
So, back to the drawing board I go and the only two things I can think of. I need to autolyze OR I'm undermixing? I really don't want to go back to store bought flour.
Oh and I've seen people that do autolyze but they add an acid like lemon juice, vinegar, and saw one that used Yogurt???
I don't have any practical experience with freshly milled flour, so I can't be certain. Autolyse will help it expand more as it bakes, so that may just fill your pan sufficiently. Give it a try. Acid can help with gluten development, so they might be on to something there.
@@ChainBaker LOL, you should try using fresh ground. Flavor wise and appetite suppression, it's an eye opener. So, I did the Autolyze for 2 hours. The dough seemed to dry out a bit. I added the other ingredients and IT DID rise more than my last formula. When I cooked it...lol. It fell. Guess I got too much air in it. So...back to the drawing board. (Method-wise. The flavor is there.)
I'm a bit late to the party on this one! :) Is it the function of simply letting the water and the flour sit together and mingle for a prolonged period that conveys the benefits?
I primarily make pizza (although i make various breads from time to time). My go to methodology is to incorporate all the ingredients, let it sit for 30 mins; then do 3 - 4 rounds of stretch and fold+30mins rest. This is very labour UN-intensive although it does take about 2 hours from start to finish.
I've used autolyse (and fermento-lyse) from time to time but is this essentially creating the same effect (gluten networks/strength/extensibility etc...) with one long resting session with just water and flour vs numerous slightly shorter resting sessions with all ingredients. Is it an either/or situation?
I've never noticed a difference between the times i've done an autolyse and times i've just done the rounds of stretch and fold...but i've also never done a side by side comparison. Curious to hear your thoughts... :)
Good question. I generally use the quick method with all ingredients mixed at once for lower hydration dough which does not require a long autolyse. Anything that is high hydro takes a bit longer and if it needs longer, then it would be advisable to leave the yeast out since kneading a fermented dough could be detrimental to the end result. But I feel like I should do a side by side experiment just to see the difference. Cheers!
can i replace water with milk?
Yes 👍
*What did I do rough?* Other loaf same amount of ingredients was fine! I add ALL my flour and all water like you did for autolyse. After 60 min it was soft, window test was good. Add everything; let it rise a second time, one inch above the rim. *Did poke test*. Took it out of the oven and the bread collapsed to a point even with the rim.
Sounds like it may have over fermented. So instead of rising more, it collapsed back.
Maybe the oven temp was uneven and one got more heat than the other? Idk
Hi there, I've started baking bread for almost two months. However, after trying a lot times with different recipes, I still can't seem to be able to achieve the perfect windowpane like those in ur videos. I do have a pair of sweaty hands, but I've tried kneading with nitrile gloves also, but it's harder to knead and doesn't work perfectly tho. Does sweaty hands affect the process of kneading? Sometimes I'm wondering could the water content in the dough affect the windowpane, but I've watched ur video about different hydration tho, so water shouldn't be the problem here...
Also, if recipes call for water, can I substitute milk interchangeably with 1:1 ratio? Does using milk result in a more tasty bread and what kind of milk is better (full fat, skim, low fat)?
Sorry for tons of question here... I've tried kneading longer too but as u said in ur video kneading longer will heat up the dough which lead to more problems ....
I don't think your hands should affect it that much. I personally almost never to the windowpane test. Just knead until the dough becomes nice and cohesive and less sticky. When you pull it should resist. Here is a video about milk - th-cam.com/video/Ku9wAbLbI9A/w-d-xo.html :)
@@ChainBaker thanks for replying, will definitely try again and also the video.
Dammit! You’re amazing
🤩
I have a recipe with seeds and flaked oats. Should I add them in for the Autolyse step or wait until after? The recipe also has some honey and oil that I think should be added after, right?
Background: I have really enjoyed your content and experimentation style. I got into baking more during COVID but I mostly have been using my bread machine to make the dough. I have been making a batch of "seeded whole wheat breakfast rolls" about once a week for over a year.
My last batch was the first I tried fully by hand. The kneading process was messy, long and the dough never really came together like yours does. The resulting rolls tasted fine but were thick and dense. I decided to add in a Autolyse step. I was not sure about the seeds and oats, so I added them in. I could try both ways, but figured I would ask the expert!
It depends on the recipe. This video should answer some questions - th-cam.com/video/eH-JauKo0zo/w-d-xo.html 😉
@@ChainBaker Thanks a lot! I should be able to adapt the process for the recipe from that video to mine.
How much water how much flour
That is up to you and the requirements of the recipe
love
But how to add yeast and salt?
th-cam.com/video/rVEYaPMuDhk/w-d-xo.html 👍
well that answered that question.
Can you autolyse for too long?
There is no benefit to leaving it for more than a couple of hours, but you can leave it for longer. At room temperature it may start developing some strange flavours if left too long though.
@@ChainBaker I have now made super high hydration deep pan pizza which was left fermenting for 5 days in the fridge :)
🎉❤🎉
Auto Lease?? I want to bake bread, not buy a car!!
😄