I would postulate that a power amplifier with a integrated passive attenuator, all shielded inside, would sound a lot better then separated. You have shorter signal, nearly no interference and can use the money you save by not having two cabinets, two transformers and several plugs for in and out, for better components.
Okay, well said, Paul. However, although you are a couple of years older than me I've noticed that on ebay, for example, there were separate amplifiers, besides turntables before my time; not only the 1960s, even going back before the beginning of the nineteen sixties! There were amplifiers, turntables, and speakers in the nineteen fifties; most certainly the late 1950s. Anyhow, another informative, enlightening lecture.🔉🎵🎶
maybe at lower price points integrated amps is best value for the money, but separate can be more compact if you get a small preamp and put a big poweramp somewhere else.
But in the integrated, you can use a volume pot without any buffer, so no preamp! Just lose the convenient volume control placement and may increase the length of speaker cables if you bring it to the rack.
Seems PS Audio's design/production focus is on separates - they only have 3 budget priced hybrid integrateds - so I am not sure how much value to put to that opinion.
Hi Paul. Love the videos. Would u today still recommend the use of a P300 power plant? I have a Wadia S7i Digital station and a Mark Levinsion 326S preamp. Will I still benefit from a P300 despite it being 20 years old now? Thank you.
*For the price* are they worse. I believe is the question. $1000 integrated vs $1000 combined for both the pre amp and the power amp, and then the interconnects.
@@newmanfertig886 No, he's saying that a $1000 integrated is better than spending a total of $1000 on the pre amp and power amp combined. Essentially, if spending the same amount of money, the integrated is better, or at least I think this is what he's claiming.
Seperate's do sound better there's no doubt in that but..... lots goes into the research to finding the right combination and you easily could spend 3-6 times the money. It's definitely not cheap and there's a reason for it unlike integrated and that's quality of sound in music. You are not going to spend a fortune on something and cheap out on the rest, seperate's don't work like that. If that's what your planning to do stick with integrated instead. Another thing to think about is room. Do you have enough room for it all in or on a cabinet etc?
''Do separates sound better than integrateds?'' Yes. Accept it for granted and do not bother with the explanations... from the '70 to present day is it so... maybe just one explanation: because dedicated separate is dedicated for one or less things and not for all... in a future maybe will be different... I hope it will not... Peace
Dragan Antonijević Do not bother with an explanation. Great, you could not better proof it is not worth dealing with you, who is not able to argue. Typical high end phrases, you lost the fight for truth, you do not care about the truth.
I have a hard time believing that my 3499.99 dollar "Rogue Audio Integrated Tube" is not better then 2 say 1500.00 Separates... Sorry I just don't think that me Neighbourhood high store lied to be Sorry
If price is no object, then sure, separates are better. However, I would argue that, at the same price point, an integrated amp can be just as good, if not better than separates. Technically, yes, sharing a power supply for both small and large signal sections can reduce fidelity, but with a well implemented integrated, you get pre and power sections that are well matched both sonically and electronically as well as shorter signal paths.
terrywho22 it all comes down to money. You would be hard pressed to find 2 mono blocks, preamp, phono stage, and headphone amp that would match my Japanese Marantz for 1200 bucks msrp.
blake makison When I got into HT I started using the front channels to listen to music, the latest a 1300$ Integra, 15 years. It was only after recently buying a preamp, and plugging it into my power amp,that I realized my error. NO contest, the sound is amazing, and I had a really good receiver,but my new Preamp blows it away, as well as the Onkyo I bought a few years ago, you get what you pay for.
Billy Grinstead I think we are saying the same thing. Spend more money, get better stuff. I’m just saying at the entry level price point, the integrated wins. And sometimes in the hifi world, you don’t get what you pay for. You may get ‘better’ but not ‘1000% better’ as an example in some cable prices
My Rogue Sphinx integrated, best $1200 I ever spent. I have had more expensive separates in the past, but this piece of equipment sounds just right to my ears.
I think it really depends on the brand... for example separates made by Sony or even PS Audio are very good, but a Integrated McIntosh such as the MA9000 is better than any separates outside of the McIntosh brands flagship pre-amp and amp separates... the quality of the integrated is more important than it being integrated.
It all comes down to design, i have heard & owned many integrated amps that sound superior to some separates. Its impossible to generalise that the sound will be better just because they are in two separate boxes,
This video and generalization from a company that doesn’t make any integrated amps except the low end sprout system. Just because PS Audio can’t make a good integrated amp doesn’t mean others cannot
Have a ton of Marantz that are incredible including 2270, but I have to say that I took an old Kenwood KA-6000 and it just blew away everything. Now this is a 1969 TOTL amp, but it was just amazing. Sound staging like I never heard before. That set the standard for me. Now I still listen to my integrated receivers, but for pure sound (and more hassle) the separate(s) that I tried, was just amazing.
The paradox here is as Paul states separates better than integrated BUT he acknowledges powered speakers the way to go and PS will when they build a speaker. I think the one benefit of integrated is you dispense with all the cable /interconnect “conundrua” and just get to listening to your music
$ 1.000 Integrated VS $ 1.000 Separates, of course I will choose Integrated in that situation. Separates system are better but it will cost legs and arm to own best separate system.
So a dual high-speed copy cassette with a two-inch tuning dial radio portable boombox all enclosed in a plastic wood simulated case is not a good choice?
I really learn a lot from you. I love good music and of course, I am a massive fan of good pieces of equipment, and learning about them from you is so grateful.
All audio is compromised. Frankly, it has more to do with implementation of said components more than whether it’s a separate or an integrated. But folks will argue one way or the other til they’re blue or red in the face.
I agree that separates sound better, but at a higher cost. You can spend a certain amount of money on a good preamp and power amp, but for that same amount of money you could get a great integrated. I only think that applies to preamp/power amp, other things like a DAC still need to be separate.
Separates are generally higher priced because, of course, you're getting separate power supplies and chassis for each function as opposed to combining them together as you would in an integrated. It's also true that generally speaking separates are better but not always. It does allow you, however, to make better choices than what you can generally get in a shared piece.
Paul, when making these comparisons you should address price points and budget. Because say you have 3k $ to spend...if you spend that on a power amp AND a preamp most likely you're not gonna get more power or better sound than if you spend the 3k $ on an integrated. HOWEVER, if you can spend 3k PER box, then yes..you'd get better sound AND power with separates.
One big advantage I have realized over the years is separates offer more flexibility when upgrading your system. I purchased my system in 2000. Over the years I have upgraded various parts of that system. When I upgraded my speakers I also upgraded my amplifiers. When I consider an upgrade I look at my system and ask myself where can I get the biggest improvement for my money. My next upgrades are going to be my source equipment (CD/DVD/music streamer) and pre-amp/processor.
For me this is not so simple an answer. While you might be sharing power supply, that is offset to some degree by a much shorter and totally designed in signal path, just picking one large benefit. Anecdotally, the two best sounding amps I ever owned have been integrateds; specifically the Musical Fidelity KW500 and VPI 299D.
For the same cost, some things can be better by integration. Actually one example is a CD player where the master clock can clock PCM data precisely to the DAC with minimum jitter compared to separate units with a DAC running its own out of sync clock trying to keep up using some PLL. Integration in one box needs care about separating power supply rails and isolating against internal EMI.
Sorry, but that's a terrible example. If you think there's any CD player ever made that can compete with a seriously high end transport or streamer, and a high end $30,000 DAC. Please LMK what you're smoking, because I have to try it for laughs.
HH Scott I’m sure if you spend US$30K on a DAC your brain will be convinced it sounds great. But little do you know that the actual DAC component doing all the work cost a few Dollars. Digital audio ideally involves one precise clock master with minimum jitter pushing the PCM data into the DAC rather than multiple out of sync clock masters in separate boxes and a cable with jitter being added.
The more I watch this channel, the more Paul sounds like PT Barnum. This guy pushes the quackery that cables have a "direction". Nowhere other than the audio world does this matter. What does he mean do separates *sound* better? Everyone hears differently. It's completely subjective. It would make more sense if he was talking in terms of price points and flexibility of choice. That would make sense. It would make more sense if he said "separates *measure* better than integrateds" and then show us the squarewaves and sinewaves, where the amp clips, the dynamic range... I mean, isnt he an engineer? All this is subjective opinion and pseudo science quackery.
Couldn't agree with you more. I was thinking the exact same thing. But he's got products to sell, so he tells the story so that he can sell more product. Cable directionality? Insane!
Measurable improvement vs audible improvement are very different. Sure - separates with a 120db SNR may measure better than an integrated with a 115db SNR, but can you hear any difference? Only if your speakers have a 120+ db sensitivity. So I agree that “sound better” is most definitely not the same as measures better.
Separates they may sound better or different to what degree 1% 2% 10% I have a good quality flagship Marantz AVR and thinking of adding high-quality power ramp to the front stage but will it sound better?
dont know what your thd is at all channels running 20Hz-20khz at whatever ohms but i use outlaw 5000 amp (cheap, quality) with my denon av3400h since they likely have high THD at any number of channels above their listed 2 channel specs
I added a monolith 9x to my Yamaha a2080 receiver. The external amp was powering my 5 main speakers. And the receiver powered the 4 atmos. I did notice a jump in sound quality with the amp added. Mainly at high volume and a little bit better channel separation.
What sounds the most different is when the rectifier goes bad in an integrated. You have that decision ""do I get it fixed, or do I buy new" ? That's the little thing that took down my 5.1 from the early 90's. It had front great amp but a weak power section. I don't think it was made for hard labor.
Wow never knew there would be so many salty haters over separates. Illogical comparisons also. If you listen to all the audiophiles who have tried multiple gear over the years many make the same mistakes as always. They thinking spending the most money on speakers is the way to go then they compromise everywhere else. Spend good money on good source equipment first. Don’t compromise here. Go separates. Both my systems I’ve had since the mid/late 90’s. Both have separate preamp and amplifiers. I’m a believer of same brand preamp and amp also. They were built to “match”. There should be no noise interference because many hours of testing went into building the products. I didn’t even start building my systems until I was around 30 and finally purchased my own home first. I then saved and built piece by piece. I never started off with some shit receiver or integrated amp. I saved the money first to buy something that I knew I would be happy with for years. I’ve had the same audio gear for nearly 25 years and everything still works great and sounds great. No point in bringing up if same money was spent. Paul was asked a question and he gave his opinion. I happen to agree.
One of the good Marantz tuner model numbers (you couldn't remember) was the 120. I had one.........and sold it......to an insistent buyer. Should have kept it!
If you spend enough money let say 3000 US and above you get very good integrated amplifiers such as from Hegel or T+A they came a long way and the gap is closing fast .
There are exceptions to every rule . Examples as follows, Audio Note Ongaku is a integrated , Manley Labs Stingray 1st. Gen., Audion SET integrated amps all have fantastic passive preamps , pleanty of transformer to get the job done. Also because they are not very high wattage one large power cord does the trick from one outlet. These are all very dynamic integrateds that can compete with separates musically speaking they are awesome.
What are you talking about “Willis/ Paul”. Me think the question is more about separate Amp! The first Stereo were separate, one Amp for each, Left and Right in one Furniture. Yes, any Separate Amp sounds better because their Power supply are independent of each other, some are even powered by Batteries, to each bank of electronics.
really enjoy you videos been a fan for awhile keep up the great work and the hi fid/quality stereo components I actually love integrated I've had a lot of them but this new old stick Yamaha ax497 has been great ran so many test out it being new in box from 2010 no subwoofer out thank goodness no preouts at all sounds excellent buying a pioneer elite network receiver that has good built in dac it's loaded up and it has a line level outs that you can ad just the level output my run it to my integrated and from integrated to speakers
Bodhi Sattva I own a Vitus SIA-025 integrated amp which waa a serious effort to integrate the essence of the Signature series separates, with as little compromise as possible. Are the separates better? Sure, but the Sia-025 is a peach & with the significant cost savings, I was able to invest in reference level cables & Stillpoints Ultra 6’s, Ultra bases + an Ultra Lpi to optimize the amp. So there are pro’s and com’s either way.
Paul did you ever hear a Naim NAT 01 FM tuner? It was a considered to be very good. Very close to my heart as I was doing the setup and test on them around 1990.
ATC SIA2 Integrated uses the same Power amp and Pre amp as the P1 Power and CA2 Pre. It even has the separate psu from the pre. The cost between the two is minimal too.
I have heard power DAC’s that sound great. The DAC power the speakers, so you only have do feed the DAC with files/streaming/usb and you have great music.
Please help. I'm New to audiophile community. I am absolutely hooked and trying to learn more by reading and watching endless videos. My ultimate question is what's the easiest and cheapest way to improve my system? Do I buy an amp or just different speakers? Am I setting up my speakers correctly? I want my system to image live music at both low and high volumes. Right now I have the following setup -Demon AV-987 A/V Receiver (110W - 8 ohm - 20-20000 Hz - THD 0.05%) - Front A channel - Elac UB5 (140W - 4 ohms) - Front B channel - Definitive Tech BP6B (175W - 8 ohms) * not sure if I'm getting best sound from these - Center channel - Definitive Tech CLR2002 (250W - 8 ohms) * do I disconnect? Not sure if I need this? - Subwoofer - Definitive Tech 8" Prosub (300 Watt) * not sure I have crossover set at optimal frequency? Prior to my readings, I thought more speakers would produce larger soundstage. What I'm experiencing is a bit of distortion and it's just not the sound I'm looking for. Also, I am not understanding the association with wattage and volume. Which brings me back to the question, what amp do I need to drive the Elacs and should I remove the other speakers or set them up differently? Thank you for your consideration.
I see there hasn't been any reply so let me try. Firstly I would disconnect everything. For Music listening first connect either the ELACs or the Definitive BP6 and see which one you like the sound of better. Then add the subwoofer, and again compare which is better (ELAC or Definitive). For subwoofer frequency start with 80hz and then adjust from there. Connecting all the speakers at the same time is putting a lot of strain on your amplifier, which might be causing the distortion you mentioned. Because it is having to power all of them at the same time (whereas AV receivers are designed for Home theatre - where most of the sound is from front speakers and occasional sound from surround speakers). I am not familiar with your Receiver, but maybe there is some setting to only play sound from Speaker Front A or B. Especially as the ELACs are 4ohms, they are more 'demanding' from the amplifier. In terms of placement, the basic idea is to ensure you don't place them too close to the wall. Before you go out and buy new components experiment with different configurations of your current equipment and see how it sounds. If you listen to more music than movies get a stereo amplifier (instead of Home Theatre / AV receiver). Or look for a stereo amplifier that has a Home Theatre By pass connection. Which gives you more flexibility. Hope that helps. Good Luck!
"Remember the Radio Tuner?" Of course WE do Paul. Most people I know listen to a radio tuner tuner MOST of the time. Hell of a lot cheaper than paying extra a bunch of overpriced overrated media. I listen to commercial free classical and semi commercial free jazz stations on a quality 5 gang fm tuner, something you "high end" gear people have unfortunately forgotten about.
I miss the good old days when FM was live. There was a DJ in Phoenix, his name was Bill Compton. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things music, and could put together collages of music that were beyond belief, and in real time. Unfortunately those days are gone and we now get downloaded MP3 files packaged to fit a “demographic”. I still listen to my pure analog tuner sometimes, but it’s just not the same when the content sucks.
I decided to use the pre out's of my Rotel rx950ax receiver connected to a Cambridge Audio azur 540r av receiver's "Direct input". My purpose for this was to increase power output from 50 wpc to 100. The Rotel became my preamp and the Cambridge the power amp. Sounds absolutely terrific. So I'd have to agree with Paul's opinion with the separates sounding better even in though in my case both components are 'technically' integrated.
i just thought of a thing, separates are only better if they're are outside the speaker, but if the engineer as you have spoken about gets to build the best speaker its all internal, integrated if you will, powered speakers are the future.
Hi Paul! Love your videos. Just wanted you to know, I still have your Quintessence Power Station feeding and cleaning the power to my Simaudio Moon 650D DAC/CD Transport, and my Simaudio Moon 600i Integrated Amplifier. She still diligently guards my system, and I feel lucky to have PS AUDIO in my system. Take care, Paul!
Venom415 It’s price dependent. If you can spend $3000 on amplification, $1500 on an analog preamp, and $1500 on a DAC, that will sound better than a cheaper, $2500 all-in-one. The only difference is in the quality of each component (your all-in-one may have a poor DAC), they are not inherently better.
BS, Paul. Separates= turntable, CD/DVD/Blu Ray but those big integrated amps like the Yamaha A-S3000 would kick butt on your COTTAGE INDUSTRY Hobbled together separates. AND you'll never have to return it for capacitor upgrades like most of your >10+ year old gear. I think what Paul means is seperates = >$$$$ in his pocket.
I have a question I've been getting a very loud popping cracking noise to my home theater system lose all sound yet all the equipment is still working and on. I have to turn everything off and back on to get sound to come back. Any thoughts as to why this is happening? It is absolutely scaring me to death and I can't seem to figure out what's happening
No seperates don't sound any better than even a cheap reciever that is functioning properly within it's bandwidth , you do not listen to your amplifier you listen to your speakers , your speakers determin the sound along with the room they are played in .
This is perhaps the worse argument I've ever heard. If this logic were true you don't need shock absorbers on a car because you just ride on the tires.
@@newmanfertig886 Any honest electrical engineer will tell you that an amplifier does one thing only , it amplifies , it does not or should not add it's own signature sound , I can't understand why some people get so hung up about pre amps , amplifiers CD players ect , these devices are designed to be neutral , if you want better sound focus on good recordings , speakers and room acoustics .
Venom415 It is in my opinion very difficult and expensive to compare equipment. In no order I try to use some rules. A) The performance of any component must succeed in your room and not in any other room. Whatever you hear in the studio of the retailer will unavoidably sound different in you room. B) Different doesn't mean worse or better.C)The most relevant improvement in my room was experimenting with the speaker position ( look for sumiko master protocol). D) cheap method to reduce standing waves: curtains.E) Before you try to look for a new cartridge, cable, speaker etc. try to make absolutely clear, which property of the old component is bad or insufficient or not acceptable. If you can't name the fault, you are doomed. F) How loud can you listen, how loud do you want to listen. Don't listen with more volume, when you are at the retailer. G) Turn the volume from zero to louder, the earlier the music starts to sound lively, the better. The later it sounds to be annoying, the better. H) Never underestimate convenience and longevity. Buy established products from established brands. I) Try to listen in the nearfield and change listening position to learn how soundstage appears and disappears. J) Helpful for speaker positioning is a mono recording. K) There has been provided overwhelming evidence, that all electronics are tenfold or more superior to mechano-electrical converters (cartridges) resp. electro-mechanical converters (speakers). Don't waste money on amplifiers, spend it for speakers. L) Even if it's hard to find a store that cooperate, try not to listen in a sighted test. Give a budget, listen without knowing which brand, which price. If you find a dealer who levels loudness with a voltmeter you're save. M) Close your eyes during listening, it enhances your imagination by synaesthesia. Nobody is lamenting about bad sound while enjoying a clip or whole concert on a good bluray disc. N) The quality differences between recordings are far greater than between components in my opinion. If there's a single recording you really appreciate and enjoy on your home system, than it can't be bad. O) No piece of gear will make you happy. Never. P) Buy at least one outstanding recording from an artist or genre you love and compare it with a highly compressed modern music with much electronic content. Small scale acoustic music can be reproduced with high fidelity in a home system. Opera and symphonic can't. Q) Listen to live music. R) If your musical taste is more or less Venom-like, I can't give you sound advice how to listen properly to this kind of music. I was raised on Black Sabbath. S) Never rely on a single source of advice. T) Don't listen and test in a store and buy afterwards online.
hi paul ....great videos.......i have a question i have 2 360 WATTS RMS 720 PEAK EACH 4 OHM SUBWOOFERS.....CAN I USE AN AMP THAT PUTS OUT 1100 WATTS IN BRIDGE MODE...?....IT WILL BE IN MY THEATER ROOM....THANK YOU
YES IT WILL PROBABLY BE FINE..............YOU ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE PEAK POWER WHEN SIZING AN AMPLIFIER TO SPEAKERS AND SUBWOOFERS,........AND YOU HAVE TO APPLY POWER FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE BLOWING THE DRIVER.
I would postulate that a power amplifier with a integrated passive attenuator, all shielded inside, would sound a lot better then separated.
You have shorter signal, nearly no interference and can use the money you save by not having two cabinets, two transformers and several plugs for in and out, for better components.
Okay, well said, Paul. However, although you are a couple of years older than me I've noticed that on ebay, for example, there were separate amplifiers, besides turntables before my time; not only the 1960s, even going back before the beginning of the nineteen sixties! There were amplifiers, turntables, and speakers in the nineteen fifties; most certainly the late 1950s. Anyhow, another informative, enlightening lecture.🔉🎵🎶
maybe at lower price points integrated amps is best value for the money, but separate can be more compact if you get a small preamp and put a big poweramp somewhere else.
But in the integrated, you can use a volume pot without any buffer, so no preamp! Just lose the convenient volume control placement and may increase the length of speaker cables if you bring it to the rack.
Seems PS Audio's design/production focus is on separates - they only have 3 budget priced hybrid integrateds - so I am not sure how much value to put to that opinion.
Hi Paul. Love the videos. Would u today still recommend the use of a P300 power plant? I have a Wadia S7i Digital station and a Mark Levinsion 326S preamp. Will I still benefit from a P300 despite it being 20 years old now? Thank you.
*For the price* are they worse. I believe is the question. $1000 integrated vs $1000 combined for both the pre amp and the power amp, and then the interconnects.
For the price which is worse? The integrated is worse I think you mean. And if so, I agree.
@@newmanfertig886 No, he's saying that a $1000 integrated is better than spending a total of $1000 on the pre amp and power amp combined. Essentially, if spending the same amount of money, the integrated is better, or at least I think this is what he's claiming.
What about plugging multiple components into a power conditioner? Isn’t that sharing a power source?
👍👍👍
Seperate's do sound better there's no doubt in that but..... lots goes into the research to finding the right combination and you easily could spend 3-6 times the money. It's definitely not cheap and there's a reason for it unlike integrated and that's quality of sound in music. You are not going to spend a fortune on something and cheap out on the rest, seperate's don't work like that. If that's what your planning to do stick with integrated instead. Another thing to think about is room. Do you have enough room for it all in or on a cabinet etc?
What gadget can I use to make my home stereo pre amplifier to be bluetooth
Bluetooth receiver
They can.
Separates all the way for me.
''Do separates sound better than integrateds?'' Yes. Accept it for granted and do not bother with the explanations... from the '70 to present day is it so... maybe just one explanation: because dedicated separate is dedicated for one or less things and not for all... in a future maybe will be different... I hope it will not... Peace
Dragan Antonijević If we're supposed to accept it without explanation, why follow up with an explanation?
Maybe... because it's not strictly technical? And can also applies to other things other than audio stuff?
Dragan Antonijević Do not bother with an explanation. Great, you could not better proof it is not worth dealing with you, who is not able to argue. Typical high end phrases, you lost the fight for truth, you do not care about the truth.
Dragan is correct. They sound better.
for the same price integrated would be better
I have a hard time believing that my 3499.99 dollar "Rogue Audio Integrated Tube" is not better then 2 say 1500.00 Separates... Sorry I just don't think that me Neighbourhood high store lied to be Sorry
Self-justification is a powerful tool..."lied to be Sorry"? Nice sentence structure - what does it mean?
Buckhorn Cortez if you can't figure it out it shows your lack of intelligence ...
Price has nothing to do with sound. Numbers are important but dollar amounts are not part of the equation.
I mean that I don't think they lied to me.. Sorry I wasn't clear..
TJ Roelsma You're right on. I believe the one paying money for the system has the right to decide what sounds good to them.
quality isn't about being separated or integrated, it's about the circuits inside.
If price is no object, then sure, separates are better. However, I would argue that, at the same price point, an integrated amp can be just as good, if not better than separates. Technically, yes, sharing a power supply for both small and large signal sections can reduce fidelity, but with a well implemented integrated, you get pre and power sections that are well matched both sonically and electronically as well as shorter signal paths.
terrywho22 it all comes down to money. You would be hard pressed to find 2 mono blocks, preamp, phono stage, and headphone amp that would match my Japanese Marantz for 1200 bucks msrp.
blake makison When I got into HT I started using the front channels to listen to music, the latest a 1300$ Integra, 15 years. It was only after recently buying a preamp, and plugging it into my power amp,that I realized my error. NO contest, the sound is amazing, and I had a really good receiver,but my new Preamp blows it away, as well as the Onkyo I bought a few years ago, you get what you pay for.
Billy Grinstead I think we are saying the same thing. Spend more money, get better stuff. I’m just saying at the entry level price point, the integrated wins. And sometimes in the hifi world, you don’t get what you pay for. You may get ‘better’ but not ‘1000% better’ as an example in some cable prices
My Rogue Sphinx integrated, best $1200 I ever spent. I have had more expensive separates in the past, but this piece of equipment sounds just right to my ears.
Depends on the integrated amp and separates you are comparing. I had separates and just recently moved to a Luxman integrated and haven't looked back!
Jason Simmons exactly
I had a Luxman a few year back. I was a wonderful unit.!!!
But if you were to compare your Luxman integrated with similar Luxman separates you would probably find the separates better.
@@sylviarienzo6955 probably true. I best not ever try them :-)
Separates are way better if you spend the extra money for them
I think it really depends on the brand... for example separates made by Sony or even PS Audio are very good, but a Integrated McIntosh such as the MA9000 is better than any separates outside of the McIntosh brands flagship pre-amp and amp separates... the quality of the integrated is more important than it being integrated.
It all comes down to design, i have heard & owned many integrated amps that sound superior to some separates.
Its impossible to generalise that the sound will be better just because they are in two separate boxes,
I like your comfy chair, Paul !
This video and generalization from a company that doesn’t make any integrated amps except the low end sprout system. Just because PS Audio can’t make a good integrated amp doesn’t mean others cannot
We may need a stricter definition for separates. Some think, amp, preamp. But if you are hard core separates means mono blocks.
60zeller you hit it, some gear have separate powersupplys too....
Couldn't agree with you more.
Mono Block is just Power Amp.
It really means if Stereo, two separate preamp/power supply / separate power plugs.
Wht the mean preamp
Is it a amp too?
Have a ton of Marantz that are incredible including 2270, but I have to say that I took an old Kenwood KA-6000 and it just blew away everything. Now this is a 1969 TOTL amp, but it was just amazing. Sound staging like I never heard before. That set the standard for me. Now I still listen to my integrated receivers, but for pure sound (and more hassle) the separate(s) that I tried, was just amazing.
The paradox here is as Paul states separates better than integrated BUT he acknowledges powered speakers the way to go and PS will when they build a speaker. I think the one benefit of integrated is you dispense with all the cable /interconnect “conundrua” and just get to listening to your music
I've owned both. I'll stick with my Esoteric RZ-1 integrated over separates.
$ 1.000 Integrated VS $ 1.000 Separates, of course I will choose Integrated in that situation. Separates system are better but it will cost legs and arm to own best separate system.
So a dual high-speed copy cassette with a two-inch tuning dial radio portable boombox all enclosed in a plastic wood simulated case is not a good choice?
I really learn a lot from you. I love good music and of course, I am a massive fan of good pieces of equipment, and learning about them from you is so grateful.
i've watched about a dozen of his vids and man, this guy is entirely predictable--100% industry schtick all the way down the line
He hasn’t heard Anthem MRX 1140
There is the cost factor as well. Separates can cost twice the price of an integrated plus the cost of interconnects and power cables.
Yep, an additional high-end power cord and high-end interconnects add up to a substantial amount of money.
Noooooo no way
Separates are with the extra cost
If you spend the same amount of money on one integrated amplifier as on two monoblocks the integrated is probably better.
So subjective any answer is wrong without context. Ultimately the recording dictates your outcome and you have zero control of that.
All audio is compromised. Frankly, it has more to do with implementation of said components more than whether it’s a separate or an integrated.
But folks will argue one way or the other til they’re blue or red in the face.
I agree that separates sound better, but at a higher cost. You can spend a certain amount of money on a good preamp and power amp, but for that same amount of money you could get a great integrated. I only think that applies to preamp/power amp, other things like a DAC still need to be separate.
Separates are generally higher priced because, of course, you're getting separate power supplies and chassis for each function as opposed to combining them together as you would in an integrated. It's also true that generally speaking separates are better but not always. It does allow you, however, to make better choices than what you can generally get in a shared piece.
Paul, when making these comparisons you should address price points and budget.
Because say you have 3k $ to spend...if you spend that on a power amp AND a preamp most likely you're not gonna get more power or better sound than if you spend the 3k $ on an integrated.
HOWEVER, if you can spend 3k PER box, then yes..you'd get better sound AND power with separates.
One big advantage I have realized over the years is separates offer more flexibility when upgrading your system. I purchased my system in 2000. Over the years I have upgraded various parts of that system. When I upgraded my speakers I also upgraded my amplifiers. When I consider an upgrade I look at my system and ask myself where can I get the biggest improvement for my money. My next upgrades are going to be my source equipment (CD/DVD/music streamer) and pre-amp/processor.
let us not ignore the "toys for boys" factor. To some, a lot of cool components adds appeal over a single box.
It’s important to address measurable difference via audible difference.
Based on the previous comments, integrated wins.
I think Paul was referring to the Marantz Model 10b tuner
For me this is not so simple an answer. While you might be sharing power supply, that is offset to some degree by a much shorter and totally designed in signal path, just picking one large benefit. Anecdotally, the two best sounding amps I ever owned have been integrateds; specifically the Musical Fidelity KW500 and VPI 299D.
i still use an fm tuner; digital radio is pants ;i have a cyrus integrated with a separate pwr supply for pre- and power
me too its better
For the same cost, some things can be better by integration. Actually one example is a CD player where the master clock can clock PCM data precisely to the DAC with minimum jitter compared to separate units with a DAC running its own out of sync clock trying to keep up using some PLL. Integration in one box needs care about separating power supply rails and isolating against internal EMI.
Sorry, but that's a terrible example. If you think there's any CD player ever made that can compete with a seriously high end transport or streamer, and a high end $30,000 DAC. Please LMK what you're smoking, because I have to try it for laughs.
HH Scott I’m sure if you spend US$30K on a DAC your brain will be convinced it sounds great. But little do you know that the actual DAC component doing all the work cost a few Dollars. Digital audio ideally involves one precise clock master with minimum jitter pushing the PCM data into the DAC rather than multiple out of sync clock masters in separate boxes and a cable with jitter being added.
I still love my Pioneer SX-1080. I completely restored it a while back and to me it sounds awesome for an integrated unit .
I love the flexibility of seperate's .....
Wish I could find a headphone Amplifier that was pre/amp power amp
Why yamaha rx v357 can't use speaker B
Separates are better if you spend the extra money for them
The more I watch this channel, the more Paul sounds like PT Barnum.
This guy pushes the quackery that cables have a "direction". Nowhere other than the audio world does this matter.
What does he mean do separates *sound* better?
Everyone hears differently. It's completely subjective.
It would make more sense if he was talking in terms of price points and flexibility of choice. That would make sense.
It would make more sense if he said "separates *measure* better than integrateds" and then show us the squarewaves and sinewaves, where the amp clips, the dynamic range... I mean, isnt he an engineer?
All this is subjective opinion and pseudo science quackery.
Couldn't agree with you more. I was thinking the exact same thing. But he's got products to sell, so he tells the story so that he can sell more product. Cable directionality? Insane!
Actually, electrons will meander around unless pushed by voltage giving them a 'direction'.
Measurable improvement vs audible improvement are very different. Sure - separates with a 120db SNR may measure better than an integrated with a 115db SNR, but can you hear any difference? Only if your speakers have a 120+ db sensitivity. So I agree that “sound better” is most definitely not the same as measures better.
Maranta model 10B is the tuner
Separates they may sound better or different to what degree 1% 2% 10% I have a good quality flagship Marantz AVR and thinking of adding high-quality power ramp to the front stage but will it sound better?
dont know what your thd is at all channels running 20Hz-20khz at whatever ohms but i use outlaw 5000 amp (cheap, quality) with my denon av3400h since they likely have high THD at any number of channels above their listed 2 channel specs
I added a monolith 9x to my Yamaha a2080 receiver. The external amp was powering my 5 main speakers. And the receiver powered the 4 atmos. I did notice a jump in sound quality with the amp added. Mainly at high volume and a little bit better channel separation.
What sounds the most different is when the rectifier goes bad in an integrated. You have that decision ""do I get it fixed, or do I buy new" ? That's the little thing that took down my 5.1 from the early 90's. It had front great amp but a weak power section. I don't think it was made for hard labor.
Wow never knew there would be so many salty haters over separates.
Illogical comparisons also. If you listen to all the audiophiles who have tried multiple gear over the years many make the same mistakes as always. They thinking spending the most money on speakers is the way to go then they compromise everywhere else.
Spend good money on good source equipment first. Don’t compromise here. Go separates. Both my systems I’ve had since the mid/late 90’s. Both have separate preamp and amplifiers. I’m a believer of same brand preamp and amp also. They were built to “match”. There should be no noise interference because many hours of testing went into building the products.
I didn’t even start building my systems until I was around 30 and finally purchased my own home first. I then saved and built piece by piece. I never started off with some shit receiver or integrated amp. I saved the money first to buy something that I knew I would be happy with for years.
I’ve had the same audio gear for nearly 25 years and everything still works great and sounds great.
No point in bringing up if same money was spent. Paul was asked a question and he gave his opinion. I happen to agree.
Honest question here, if your average listening volume is 80-90 db, what's the point of 110-130 db dynamic range? Won't much of the signal be lost?
james robinson, db is a relative scale, not absolute.
volleyballschlaeger I think I understand your reply, thanks. ..
One of the good Marantz tuner model numbers (you couldn't remember) was the 120.
I had one.........and sold it......to an insistent buyer. Should have kept it!
If you spend enough money let say 3000 US and above you get very good integrated amplifiers such as from Hegel or T+A they came a long way and the gap is closing fast .
MY view about integrated is you don't know where the manufacturer has put his money. What's the quality of the phono stage, the DAC, the amp itself?
Course seperates sound better, you can get the best of everything!
There are exceptions to every rule .
Examples as follows, Audio Note Ongaku is a integrated , Manley Labs Stingray 1st. Gen., Audion SET integrated amps all have fantastic passive preamps , pleanty of transformer to get the job done.
Also because they are not very high wattage one large power cord does the trick from one outlet. These are all very dynamic integrateds that can compete with separates musically speaking they are awesome.
Are Intergrated speakers any good Mate or do they only work with certain Amplifiers !
What are you talking about “Willis/ Paul”.
Me think the question is more about separate Amp!
The first Stereo were separate, one Amp for each, Left and Right in one Furniture.
Yes, any Separate Amp sounds better because their Power supply are independent of each other, some are even powered by Batteries, to each bank of electronics.
really enjoy you videos been a fan for awhile keep up the great work and the hi fid/quality stereo components I actually love integrated I've had a lot of them but this new old stick Yamaha ax497 has been great ran so many test out it being new in box from 2010 no subwoofer out thank goodness no preouts at all sounds excellent buying a pioneer elite network receiver that has good built in dac it's loaded up and it has a line level outs that you can ad just the level output my run it to my integrated and from integrated to speakers
Bodhi Sattva
I own a Vitus SIA-025 integrated amp which waa a serious effort to integrate the essence of the Signature series separates, with as little compromise as possible. Are the separates better? Sure, but the Sia-025 is a peach & with the significant cost savings, I was able to invest in reference level cables & Stillpoints Ultra 6’s, Ultra bases + an Ultra Lpi to optimize the amp. So there are pro’s and com’s either way.
Yes separate will always sound better because you can mix and match
Paul did you ever hear a Naim NAT 01 FM tuner? It was a considered to be very good. Very close to my heart as I was doing the setup and test on them around 1990.
ATC SIA2 Integrated uses the same Power amp and Pre amp as the P1 Power and CA2 Pre. It even has the separate psu from the pre. The cost between the two is minimal too.
Because of the power supply? Kid me not.
I want to add more tranzistors final with my amp ,increase power too him or not what happend. Help me please
Love my 90s Sony ES system
I have heard power DAC’s that sound great. The DAC power the speakers, so you only have do feed the DAC with files/streaming/usb and you have great music.
What about separates for quadraphonic!
bwahahahaha!
Please help. I'm New to audiophile community. I am absolutely hooked and trying to learn more by reading and watching endless videos.
My ultimate question is what's the easiest and cheapest way to improve my system?
Do I buy an amp or just different speakers? Am I setting up my speakers correctly?
I want my system to image live music at both low and high volumes.
Right now I have the following setup
-Demon AV-987 A/V Receiver (110W - 8 ohm - 20-20000 Hz - THD 0.05%)
- Front A channel - Elac UB5 (140W - 4 ohms)
- Front B channel - Definitive Tech BP6B (175W - 8 ohms) * not sure if I'm getting best sound from these
- Center channel - Definitive Tech CLR2002 (250W - 8 ohms) * do I disconnect? Not sure if I need this?
- Subwoofer - Definitive Tech 8" Prosub (300 Watt) * not sure I have crossover set at optimal frequency?
Prior to my readings, I thought more speakers would produce larger soundstage. What I'm experiencing is a bit of distortion and it's just not the sound I'm looking for. Also, I am not understanding the association with wattage and volume. Which brings me back to the question, what amp do I need to drive the Elacs and should I remove the other speakers or set them up differently?
Thank you for your consideration.
I see there hasn't been any reply so let me try. Firstly I would disconnect everything. For Music listening first connect either the ELACs or the Definitive BP6 and see which one you like the sound of better. Then add the subwoofer, and again compare which is better (ELAC or Definitive). For subwoofer frequency start with 80hz and then adjust from there. Connecting all the speakers at the same time is putting a lot of strain on your amplifier, which might be causing the distortion you mentioned. Because it is having to power all of them at the same time (whereas AV receivers are designed for Home theatre - where most of the sound is from front speakers and occasional sound from surround speakers). I am not familiar with your Receiver, but maybe there is some setting to only play sound from Speaker Front A or B. Especially as the ELACs are 4ohms, they are more 'demanding' from the amplifier. In terms of placement, the basic idea is to ensure you don't place them too close to the wall. Before you go out and buy new components experiment with different configurations of your current equipment and see how it sounds. If you listen to more music than movies get a stereo amplifier (instead of Home Theatre / AV receiver). Or look for a stereo amplifier that has a Home Theatre By pass connection. Which gives you more flexibility. Hope that helps. Good Luck!
FM tuner and quality audio are incompatible things.
"Remember the Radio Tuner?" Of course WE do Paul. Most people I know listen to a radio tuner tuner MOST of the time. Hell of a lot cheaper than paying extra a bunch of overpriced overrated media. I listen to commercial free classical and semi commercial free jazz stations on a quality 5 gang fm tuner, something you "high end" gear people have unfortunately forgotten about.
I miss the good old days when FM was live. There was a DJ in Phoenix, his name was Bill Compton. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of all things music, and could put together collages of music that were beyond belief, and in real time. Unfortunately those days are gone and we now get downloaded MP3 files packaged to fit a “demographic”. I still listen to my pure analog tuner sometimes, but it’s just not the same when the content sucks.
The extension being that monoblock amps can have advantages over a stereo amp.
he ment the marantz 10B tube FM-tuner. i love the sequerra FM-1.
You guys need any software engineers for anything? I'd love to work for PS Audio lol
I decided to use the pre out's of my Rotel rx950ax receiver connected to a Cambridge Audio azur 540r av receiver's "Direct input". My purpose for this was to increase power output from 50 wpc to 100. The Rotel became my preamp and the Cambridge the power amp. Sounds absolutely terrific. So I'd have to agree with Paul's opinion with the separates sounding better even in though in my case both components are 'technically' integrated.
Azur 540r doesnt have real preamp input
I'm employing the azur 540r as a power amp now using the 6.1 Direct inputs normally used for DVD-A or SACD. Works great.
i just thought of a thing, separates are only better if they're are outside the speaker, but if the engineer as you have spoken about gets to build the best speaker its all internal, integrated if you will, powered speakers are the future.
Wrong
yes.
Kudos!
Yes
I am really looking forward to a US made PS Audio integrated.
OzoneEditions they have the Sprout. I believe the new model just came out with double the power.
Alex Knight I believe the Sprout is made in the PRC.
a BHK integrated would be awesome.
Hi Paul! Love your videos. Just wanted you to know, I still have your Quintessence Power Station feeding and cleaning the power to my Simaudio Moon 650D DAC/CD Transport, and my Simaudio Moon 600i Integrated Amplifier. She still diligently guards my system, and I feel lucky to have PS AUDIO in my system. Take care, Paul!
What would be the difference between seperatw and all in one, would audio quality be changed in a noticeable way?
Venom415 It’s price dependent. If you can spend $3000 on amplification, $1500 on an analog preamp, and $1500 on a DAC, that will sound better than a cheaper, $2500 all-in-one.
The only difference is in the quality of each component (your all-in-one may have a poor DAC), they are not inherently better.
Paul, unless you are willing to use XLR or AES/EBU connectors separates do NOT offer significant advantage over integrates.
You should always ask an expert? Never ask the salesman.
I've made many a stereo that where way better but integrated are just fine for a small rooms with good speakers
BS, Paul. Separates= turntable, CD/DVD/Blu Ray but those big integrated amps like the Yamaha A-S3000 would kick butt on your COTTAGE INDUSTRY Hobbled together separates. AND you'll never have to return it for capacitor upgrades like most of your >10+ year old gear. I think what Paul means is seperates = >$$$$ in his pocket.
5-16-18 Hollies - Medley 2013 11:24 (fritz5132) Music from your generation ! God Bless !
I have a question I've been getting a very loud popping cracking noise to my home theater system lose all sound yet all the equipment is still working and on. I have to turn everything off and back on to get sound to come back. Any thoughts as to why this is happening? It is absolutely scaring me to death and I can't seem to figure out what's happening
No seperates don't sound any better than even a cheap reciever that is functioning properly within it's bandwidth , you do not listen to your amplifier you
listen to your speakers , your speakers determin the sound along with the room they are played in .
This is perhaps the worse argument I've ever heard. If this logic were true you don't need shock absorbers on a car because you just ride on the tires.
@@newmanfertig886 Any honest electrical engineer will tell you that an amplifier does one thing only , it amplifies , it does not
or should not add it's own signature sound , I can't understand why some people get so hung up about pre amps , amplifiers
CD players ect , these devices are designed to be neutral , if you want better sound focus on good recordings , speakers and
room acoustics .
Separates are way better than any receiver
gobbledegook
When you position separates side by side, you can hear the sound deteriorate?
Astra Oovier I want to know the same thing, starting to learn about audio equipment and I would love to hear examples of how things differ in sound
Venom415 It is in my opinion very difficult and expensive to compare equipment. In no order I try to use some rules. A) The performance of any component must succeed in your room and not in any other room. Whatever you hear in the studio of the retailer will unavoidably sound different in you room. B) Different doesn't mean worse or better.C)The most relevant improvement in my room was experimenting with the speaker position ( look for sumiko master protocol). D) cheap method to reduce standing waves: curtains.E) Before you try to look for a new cartridge, cable, speaker etc. try to make absolutely clear, which property of the old component is bad or insufficient or not acceptable. If you can't name the fault, you are doomed. F) How loud can you listen, how loud do you want to listen. Don't listen with more volume, when you are at the retailer. G) Turn the volume from zero to louder, the earlier the music starts to sound lively, the better. The later it sounds to be annoying, the better. H) Never underestimate convenience and longevity. Buy established products from established brands. I) Try to listen in the nearfield and change listening position to learn how soundstage appears and disappears. J) Helpful for speaker positioning is a mono recording. K) There has been provided overwhelming evidence, that all electronics are tenfold or more superior to mechano-electrical converters (cartridges) resp. electro-mechanical converters (speakers). Don't waste money on amplifiers, spend it for speakers. L) Even if it's hard to find a store that cooperate, try not to listen in a sighted test. Give a budget, listen without knowing which brand, which price. If you find a dealer who levels loudness with a voltmeter you're save. M) Close your eyes during listening, it enhances your imagination by synaesthesia. Nobody is lamenting about bad sound while enjoying a clip or whole concert on a good bluray disc. N) The quality differences between recordings are far greater than between components in my opinion. If there's a single recording you really appreciate and enjoy on your home system, than it can't be bad. O) No piece of gear will make you happy. Never. P) Buy at least one outstanding recording from an artist or genre you love and compare it with a highly compressed modern music with much electronic content. Small scale acoustic music can be reproduced with high fidelity in a home system. Opera and symphonic can't. Q) Listen to live music. R) If your musical taste is more or less Venom-like, I can't give you sound advice how to listen properly to this kind of music. I was raised on Black Sabbath. S) Never rely on a single source of advice. T) Don't listen and test in a store and buy afterwards online.
hi paul ....great videos.......i have a question i have 2 360 WATTS RMS 720 PEAK EACH 4 OHM SUBWOOFERS.....CAN I USE AN AMP THAT PUTS OUT 1100 WATTS IN BRIDGE MODE...?....IT WILL BE IN MY THEATER ROOM....THANK YOU
YES IT WILL PROBABLY BE FINE..............YOU ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE PEAK POWER WHEN SIZING AN AMPLIFIER TO SPEAKERS AND SUBWOOFERS,........AND YOU HAVE TO APPLY POWER FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE BLOWING THE DRIVER.
YOU WILL BE FINE, JUST DO NOT TURN THEN VOLUME WAAAAY UP. WITH YOUR MESSAGE STYLE THAT MAY BE AGAINST YOUR NATURE THOUGH.
So that's why my ""integrated stereo speakers" idea never took off! :/