His voice was alright: audiences of that day were dissatisfied that his voice didn’t match the imaginary voice they had created for themselves while watching his silent films.
Seems it was high pitched, but as his singing voice was fine it couldn't have been that bad. But doesn't it show what damage silent films did to peoples' expectations and what it did to actors. A time when they couldn't marry openly if they were matinee idols and glamorous beauties, because the Studio expected fans to be kept hoping that one day, some day, he/she would be theirs!! Lives ruined.
Re Voice … (Drawn’s Comment) That’s a cool comment. An Interesting analysis. It says a lot about the societal effect of that generation of movie goers. We don’t really understand those people, even if we think we do. Re Peter’s Comment. I think, more than what you said, that bit about Louie B saying he was going to destroy him, seems easily true. It did not take much to dead end a career when you have complete control over his exposure. LBM probably gave him directors that would be awful just to torment him. Think about it; what a power trip. The mean jokes must have gone on for years between he and friends, just watching Gilbert die on the vine.
I remember Gilbert having a decent voice, a fairly deep baritone. But with Mayer as his deadly enemy, career over, buddy. Clara Bow went through a similar thing at Paramount.
Jesus, I didn't know Gilbert had actually assaulted Mayer. A woman actor of the time only had to say, "can I think about it?" to have her contract terminated by a studio head. So, in Gilbert's case, his fate was hardly surprising.
The old boy actually had a good dose of it coming to him. He destroyed so many people in that dreadful industry and all consumers saw was the magic. I hope he got a good punch to the snout, frankly, for all of them!
Louis B. Mayer was true to his word, but John Gilbert needed to take bull by the horns. Start working on acting techniques to make full use of new technology or get the hell away from MGM. I think if he had moved on to another studio, he would have become quite successful.
An early Technicolor MGM short subject shows Gilbert being sabotaged by Mayer. Turner Classic Movies has run this on cable. Gilbert later did some talkies, including an impressive double role as the hero and his memesis. Alcoholism took him in the end, I think.
The arrival of talking films was a crisis that studio heads did not allow to go to waste. I think you'll find that many a "problem" employee was shown the door with the excuse that they could not fit into the new era. Some of this jettisoning was justified and many were not.
🤫🤔If Hollywood every destroyed any actor, it was sadly John Gilbert. The poor man 👨 was truly broken when he died ,so young. My personal favorite Gilbert movie 🎥, Queen 👸 Christina 1933. He and Garbo are both wonderful in it.......
For what it's worth, I just read a 2015 list of 100 top silents, and three of Gilbert's films were included: He Who Gets Slapped, The Big Parade, and Flesh and The Devil. He appeared in a fourth listed, Ben-Hur: A Tale of The Christ, but he was an uncredited extra in that.
I have visited Gilbert's resting place. A very kind young man at Forest Lawn gave me precise directions or I wouldn't have found it. I knew about Gilbert's drinking, but not about his abandonment of his first wife and child. I also didn't know that The Artist was inspired by him. I love that movie! But I saw it before I got into historical silent films. Has anyone noticed how Gilbert Roland is often misidentified as JG?
John Gilbert Ramon Novarro William Haines Conrad Nagel and Richard Barthelmess and Charles Farrell I think there careers were pretty much over which was unfair because they were the guys who started the movie business they opened the doors for Gary Cooper Clark Gable Douglas Fairbanks Jr Cary Grant Robert Montgomery Errol Flynn Robert Taylor and Tyrone Power Jr
Here today, gone Tomarrow. Its tragic but true, when it came to some young actors. Rudy Valentino was only in his late 20's, when he died, and the women went crazy, mourning for him. In John's case, I think too much, wine, women, and song, was a big part of his life, and it eventually did him in. Thanks for this vid!!
I didn't like the last part of this summary because I don't think there is a more romantic scene ever played out than with Garbo and Gilbert in "Queen Christina". There's a story that as Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. made love to Dietrich he had to look at the photo of Gilbert on her night stand.
The video was well done, well spoken but one thing prevents me from subscribing ... the hard sell every few minutes with that red subscribe button slap bang in the middle of the screen and constant reminders. If your work is good, we will subscribe anyway ... the hard sell though is simply offputting.
Very interesting and well done. I knew the name but didn't know very much about him, except that he was linked to Greta Garbo. I still wonder, though: whatever happened to the first wife? Did she just conveniently stay out of his life, even after he became famous and wealthy? Surely he must have had to settle with her somehow and unentangle legally.
Popular today. Being escorted off the studio property tomorrow. That's the Hollywood studio star system of yesteryear. What he should have done(after his initial disastrous cross over in 1929-1930)was to have his contract renegotiated with a smaller but financially justifiable salary per movie. Also moving into somewhat smaller character roles would most certainly have helped to keep his career on the right track too. 10-23-2022
Joan Crawford made millions for MGM. But when her career started going downhill she was called into Louis B. Mayer's office and he fired her. When she asked, "Well L.B, would you at least escort me to my car?", he replied, "Oh, Joan, I couldn't do that!" He was a terrible person.
Imagine the top actor in Hollywood starting a fight because he didn’t like something somebody said and ruining his whole career. Good thing that today’s stars are much smarter!
Paul the Audacious...well, perhaps today's actors are smarter in some ways, but I beg to differ on others. Every generation has its own set of smarties, pros and cons. John Gilbert did not do a very satisfactory job of taking the Bull by the horns when the odds were turning against him.
Dear precious one, please repeat after me with your whole heart, "Father God, I'm a sinner and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe in the Good News that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that You resurrected Him from the dead in order to restore my relationship with You. Through my belief and faith in Jesus death, burial and resurrection, I am saved. I want to trust Jesus as my Savior and follow Him as my Lord from this day forward. Please guide my life and help me do Your will, Your way through the Holy Spirit. This I pray in the powerful, loving and glorious name of Your Son, Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. Amen!" 🙏 Dear friend, may Father God our Creator, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior and The Holy Spirit bless you, lead you, guide you and keep you in His abundantly loving care now and for all eternity! Amen!!! ❤️🙏
John Gilbert had a great speaking voice, there’s no doubt about it. Better than most. I did hear the rumour that all MGM theatres were ordered by Louis B Mayor to sabotage him by running the movie at 1 and 1/3 speed to make his voice sound funny to audiences, to essentially kill his career as they had a bitter fued, since Gilbert’s aborted wedding to Garbo, where Mayor had punched him.
It seems as though the man got exactly what he deserved. No moral compass. Most of his women also got what they deserved too as his reputation was the talk of the town. I don't suffer fools.
He was, more or less, Garbo's "fiance" but He was much much better into silent movies... Thanks God, it wasn't the same with The Divine Garbo.Her voice in Anna Christie took Hollywood by surprise // Indeed, every time I ask for a Whisky I try to imitate her cavernous and manly tone... Without any success so far!! 🥃🥃🥃
Many actor actresses have had extensive voice training to adjust their voices to movies….Melanie Griffith worked hard to lower hers. She didn’t quite succeed. She is a beautiful and a great actress, but she wasn’t one of the top mega stars. Poor thing sounded like a squeaky little mouse.
So the whole thing with this guy is that supposedly his voice ruined his career, and you do this whole video without giving a sample of it. Thumbs down..
Gilbert is OK, but I cannot get over his looks, which I find almost comical. And his nose always looks like Cyrano’s to me. He is very good with Garbo, but I think that has more to do with Garbo. My favorite G&G film is “Flesh & the Devil”.
Sheriff 34...exactly...many of those who are commenting on this documentary are not listening to the factors involved with Gilbert's demise. Mayer used casting as his number one weapon to destroy Gilbert.
That part of LBM messing with the sound machine?. Sounds outlandish but what a concept. This could be a scene in a comedic play. Lucy and Ethel sneak into the studio and find Louie B disguised as Greek fisherman? Precious material. Handle with care.
I recently purchased a DVD of Midnight In Paris and found John Gilbert as charming, commanding, and as good in his acting and voice as any number of actors of the period. Ronald Coleman and Robert Donat come to mind. It was a very enjoyable film, if not particularly unusual, but good. He definitely had what it takes as a leading man. Our loss.
Can it be a kind of national mindset if you know what mean? Twenties and Thirties leading men in the US were deep voiced and "manly" (grossly so sometimes)... In the UK at that time they were more likely to have the golden voices of Donat or Coleman. Even a few others come to mind.
I've been studying and following his work of Gilbert thanks to TCM for showing his body of work. I highly recommend reading Dark Star by his daughter Leatrice Joy Gilbert Fountain. It is written with much love and respect for her late father. While he was primarily absent, he didn't forget about her. Unfortunately, his second daughter knew nothing of him thanks to her mother hiding the identity of her father. Mayer was frugal. I think Gilbert's high paycheck, contract, and stock market crash of 1929 made Mayer rethink the value of Gilbert to MGM. The rumors swirling about the double wedding and fight with Mayer have never been substantiated. I wouldn't put it past Mayer to change the sound settings but the dialogue is awful in His Glorious Night. Downstairs is one of my favorites of his which is something missing in the information provided. Gilbert longed to write, not be in front of the camera. He sold the script of Downstairs for $1 to prove himself as a writer to make the move to writing and leave acting. It's a great movie, a good storyline. Sadly, I think Gilbert burned too many bridges with his alcoholism at this point for anyone to take his writing seriously. I will one day pay my respects to his gravesite and visit the area where his home once stood in California.
This profile of Gilbert's life and work is, I think, quite fair, factual and intelligent -- something exgtremely hard to find these days. IT neither white washes nor demonizes. Gilbert was not an angel, but nor was he the devil personified. Just human. Basically, he didn't do anything JFK didn't do and nobody seems to ever cry or complain about that -- unfortunately. Gilbert, in life had a fine, melodic voice, in fact. There are recordings to verify this. All indications point rather to his perhaps not taking enough interest in training that voice for dramatic use i the new medium and to use his voice as a dramatic instrument in storytelling. Not easy. Take Hepburn, for instance. A metallic voice, overlayed with a thick scissor-like Bryn Mawr elocution style of diction. Very "un-Hollywood". And yet, the melody of the way she delivers lines is marvellous, dramatic, calculated, musical, cadenced -- likely the benefit of her training with voice coach Francis Robinson Duff. Ella Fitzgerald, as another example, was born with a high, hollering girly voice, and yet, trained it into a lush, precise, crooning bel canto instrument. An amazing transformation. But not everyone is up to such a transformation. It takes work, deliberate work, which unfortunately Gilbert, occupied with "other things" didn't get around to do. LIke Joan Crawford, it is easy to forget that Gilbert had a pretty rough start in life. Nonetheless, a brilliant star, arguably the handsomest man on the screen and easily the most dashing profile in Hollywood history. Nice documentary. Thank you.
The tragic irony of his rise to fame, being the "Great Lover" on screen and disastrous relationships in real life, the coming of talkies and his early death is heartbreaking. I became a fan watching "The Big Parade" and can watch his movies with Garbo anytime without tiring of them. Great tribute to him without filtering the harsh reality. Thank you from a new subscriber!
Wonderful to read such a well-informed comment. My great-grandad was in silent films and our family was raised on film industry lore. So few people nowadays know about the greatest films (in my opinion, those of the 1930s and 40s.....even though I was a teen in the 80s, these were always my favorites) and even fewer know about the silent age, even though the whole story is tremendously fascinating. As is the story of film production, itself, moving from New York to Hollywoodland. Thank you for such a fun, measured, articulate summation.
@@lisaahmari7199 Hi There, how kind of you. Glad to do it. One sometimes gets the feeling that politicians don't understand what a great country we have and their attempts to "improve it" just ruin it. Similarly, few know what treasures lie in the past. The Gilbert/Garbo pairing was magic. And whatever he may have been in real life, he came across on screen as being so "nice". God bless!
I've seen a couple of his sound films from the early 1930s. Voice, delivery and acting were excellent. Why didn't he just move on to another studio?? We'll never know.
Moving to another studio under the studio system wasn’t that simple of an affair. The studio system was draconian, it ruined careers, and it ruined a lot of potentially great films, and yet at the same time it also gave us many of the classics.
John Gilbert lead a hard life as a child and young man . He was a very handsome man , but he was needy . He wanted what couldn't be his . Always reaching for his mother's love . The alchohol played a huge part in his demise . But Louis B. Mayer was such a child about a punch thrown by a drunk man . It's a shame that Mr. Gilbett died so young , too young . RIP John Gilbert .
You can live without many things in life, but if you are deprived of real maternal love when you need it most (and that also includes teens). It can cause terrible hurt and a change in psyche, and I know this personally. That seems to be what he was searching for.
@@petertaylor3600: I dealt with a lot people who had either been deprived of maternal love or lost their mothers when they were born . They needed help in relationships and once they were honest about their loss , they got better , a whole lot better .
@@johnmiller8975: No ! Mr. Gilbert was known to drink heavily and Mr. Mayer knew this , but insisted on trying to make sense with a drunk man . There was ample warning that Mr. Gilbett was in not in the best of moods . You don't try to make sense with someone drunk , you stay away when you see they are getting agitated . Mr. Mayer said he was going to destroy Mr. Gilbert , which is over kill for a simple assault . Why didn't Mr. Mayer involve the police ? Instead he set out to destroy a man's career . Totally evil and excessive ! Mr. Mayer goild have asked for a formal apology the next day , and he may have received it , instead he sneakily set out to kill Mr. Gilbert's career . This was a cowardly act . They had a contract and two adults would have dealt with the situation in a mature way . Louis B. Msyer was known to be a dick in Hollywood. He was vendictive and childish .
@@robertdemitro1520 I am going to say this one more time. If I slugged my boss, no matter the provocation I would be terminated without recourse, and charged with assault as well. You remember the Oscars right? Was that OK? there was provocation enough for a response just not assault. Then there is the background on Gilbert -- sexual predator & abandonment of his family.
" The Big Parade" is one of my very favorite films, and it was my intro to John Gilbert. I've seen a few other films of his and he was great, but Big Parade remains on of my top films. I knew virtually nothing about the actor though, it's a shame his life took the turn it did, alcohol is a mean drug for a lot of people, it brings out the worst in them.
----It would have after all this bull shit , they put a sample of his voice in this video! .what a colossal waste of time this was. Never again. I know now to avoid chit like this .
Many stars of the silents were victims of nascent sound technology. It took a good two years before they had somewhat ironed out the kinks with sound editing. By then, 60% of the stars had already been sabotaged. I think it was deliberate.
It was the technology more than anything else. I don't believe that it was deliberate sabotage. Some of those actors were too famous to be thrown away by the studios. But the early sound technology was not that good..
Years ago I wondered what all the brouhaha was about Gilbert's voice being unsuited for sound. When I heard him in his "talkies" I heard nothing out of the ordinary. Didn't hear anything tinny or high-pitched. I know his diction was spot-on. At times he pronounced words just like they're spelled; like cruel. He spoke it: *_Cru-EL_* which I thought was a bit over-the-top, but funny? Naa. He sounded fine to me.
Buster boy...this just was not any man who made the comment. Louis B.Mayer, head of MGM and Gilbert's boss said, "why do you have to marry her? Why don't you just sleep with her?" This evidently enraged Gilbert to strike Mayer. This was the turning point in Gilbert's career, and Mayer was true to his word about destroying Gilbert's career. Casting was the big issue Mayer used to destroy.
"I took the croupier to A picture show I took the croupier to A picture show And though I snuggled close when The lights were low The croupier impressed me As rather slow I said, "I like John Gilbert A lot, don't you?" I said, "I like John Gilbert A lot, don't you?" He didn't answer, but when The show was through I realized that he liked John Gilbert, too" - Cole Porter - "I'm Unlucky At Gambling" " Fifty Million Frenchmen"-1929
bill philips... maybe you do not see, but John Gilbert was very attractive and his profile was exquisite. What many actors from his time wanted to look like...
Gilbert worked with Lon Chaney SR., not Jr. And "He Who Gets Slapped" is a Chaney film. Shearer only has a supporting role. It's a great film, well worth watching.
Based on the John Gilbert talks I've actually seen (thank you, Turner Classic Movies), I'd say that the reason he never made the transition from silent to sound films was that, while there was nothing wrong with his voice per se, he never learned how to act with his voice, how to vary his inflections to convey emotions. A contemporary reviewer of "His Glorious Night" said that Gilbert's voice had all the passion of one assistant director asking another to lunch. I've read elsewhere that Gilbert's' mother was a stage actress named Ada Adaire, who was so free with her affections he had no idea who his biological father was - much like Marilyn Monroe, who also grew up not knowing who her dad was and who became troubled by substance abuse and died young. And I don't believe that Louis B. Mayer deliberately sabotaged Gilbert's career by ordering technicians to record his voice badly; the technology to do that simply didn't exist in 1929. In his book on the silent-to-sound transition, "The Shattered Silents: How the Movies Learned to Talk," Alexander Walker argued that the reason Ronald Colman managed the transition just fine while Gilbert didn't was that Colman was under contract to a boutique producer, Sam Goldwyn, who carefully stage-managed his caree. Goldwyn realized the heavy-breathing romance that had made Colman a silent star wasn't going to work in sound films and gave him a comedy-mystery, "Bulldog Drummond," as his first talkie, while Mayer thrust Gilbert into old-fashioned scripts like "His Glorious Night" and a Tolstoy adaptation called "Redemption" as his first sound films.
Louis B. Mayer was true to his word about destroying Gilbert's career, if not by Sound technology, definitely by casting. John Gilbert, if he realized this, needed to take the bull by the horns. Start working on his acting techniques to make full use of new technology and/or get the hell away from MGM. I think he could have moved on to another studio and become quite successful.
What you have to understand, is the public listened with great anticipation when both the Hollywood Review of 1929 and His Glorious Night-1929 came out. In both pictures Gilbert's highly affected overly dramatic delivery made audiences laugh. (Listen to them yourself) Gilbert quickly adjusted his acting style but the damage was already done. There was also a major falling out between Gilbert and Louis B. Mayer, the head of the studio. Mayer dramatically cut the number of pictures Gilbert made so it became even more difficult for Gilbert to redeem himself with his public, forcing Gilbert to put out a notice in the Hollywood trade papers stating the MGM will neither release him from his contract or give him any films to play in. Sadly Gilbert died of a heart attack just a couple years later a completely broken man.
So many actors then had their careers ended when Talkies started and their own speech wasn't up to reality. But it must have hit him hard, more than some of the others. Rejected by his parents he was rejected later in life by others and learned to be vain and selfish. Not altogether his fault, life teaches people to grow a shell like that. Sorry for the poor guy but it's too late now.
What was reprehensible was the controlling power producers, of the Louis B.kind had over these people. The industry, with its superficial glamour and style, that hid a hideous underbelly, and which could ruin talented people it decided to destroy. The terrible thing is, they got completely away with it.
Do you know the difference between Lillian Gish, Greta Garbo and Joan Crawford ? With so many phots available, the sound and pictures could be co- ordinated !!
It's never a good idea to get drunk at a party when the boss is present. 10 CC song called Anonymous Alcoholic about that very subject. Dominick Scialo is another great example. He publicly disrespected Carlo Gambino one night when he was drunk. He was dusmissed Mob style, by being tortured and then murdered. And then they killed a couple of his buddies just to emphasize what happens to employees who exhibit lack of decorum in front of the boss.
The problem was not with John Gilberts voice in his first Talkie-----The problem was with the times he lived in-----they expected the ultimate manly image of a voice the public would expect.!
John Gilbert had a fine speaking voice and I don't agree that he did not adapt to the technology of sound movies. "Downstairs" from 1932 is an excellent movie and Gilbert's performance is simply great! John Gilbert's career failed primarily from bad movies, alcoholism and Gilbert's person demons.
Gilbert delivered the best "male lead"-type of role in the history of the Silents with "The Big Parade". I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the story of Mayer sabotaging Gilbert's audio. A decade earlier, director Alan Dwan was settling disputes with Edison's thugs with pistol-shooting contests down on the Mexican border. Southern California was still the Wild West in the early decades of the 20th century. Anything went and often did. Iirc, Gilbert's mother was practically turning tricks to stay off the street - a grim life for a child. He ran away. Got work at a film studio as a teenager. Died at the absurd age of 38 from disappointment, who knows how many cigarettes, and rivers of hard booze. He died in his mansion at Bel Air, surrounded by gold-digging lady ghouls. For those asking, he apparently left his daughter some money.
Gilbert actually continued to make films for MGM through 1933. His last filmed appearance was for Columbia in 1934 for "The Captain Hates The Sea". Even without the bad talkie debut, Gilbert's fate would most likely have been the same because his voice did not match what audiences expected, plus they just wanted new faces after sound came in. Lots of stars lasted from the transition to sound and into the talkie era for a few years, only to have their careers die out. A lucky few who had great voices, like William Powell, actually had their stars rise and go from supporting player to leading actors.
Reginald Owen knew LB Mayer and John Gilbert. Reggie wrote that from the earliest sound features and could control the voice pitch and Mayer sabotaged Gilbert. I knew Reggie and have his memoirs. He says Mayer treated him (Reggie) well but not Gilbert or Von Stroheim.
destroying actors for their voice was the first attempt at cancellation, i dont see why they cancelled Clara Bow who was charming and kept Greta Garbo who has no expression
His voice was alright: audiences of that day were dissatisfied that his voice didn’t match the imaginary voice they had created for themselves while watching his silent films.
Seems it was high pitched, but as his singing voice was fine it couldn't have been that bad. But doesn't it show what damage silent films did to peoples' expectations and what it did to actors. A time when they couldn't marry openly if they were matinee idols and glamorous beauties, because the Studio expected fans to be kept hoping that one day, some day, he/she would be theirs!! Lives ruined.
Re Voice … (Drawn’s Comment) That’s a cool comment. An Interesting analysis. It says a lot about the societal effect of that generation of movie goers. We don’t really understand those people, even if we think we do.
Re Peter’s Comment. I think, more than what you said, that bit about Louie B saying he was going to destroy him, seems easily true. It did not take much to dead end a career when you have complete control over his exposure. LBM probably gave him directors that would be awful just to torment him. Think about it; what a power trip. The mean jokes must have gone on for years between he and friends, just watching Gilbert die on the vine.
This wouldn't be the first. or last, time headcanon made an impact
@@johnmiller8975 I enjoy learning new words. I had to look up headcanon. Thanks.
I am assuming Brad Pitt role was based on Gilbert in Babylon.
You assume correctly.
I remember Gilbert having a decent voice, a fairly deep baritone. But with Mayer as his deadly enemy, career over, buddy. Clara Bow went through a similar thing at Paramount.
Yeah, Mayer had it in for a number of people. Buster Keaton, too.
Jesus, I didn't know Gilbert had actually assaulted Mayer. A woman actor of the time only had to say, "can I think about it?" to have her contract terminated by a studio head. So, in Gilbert's case, his fate was hardly surprising.
The old boy actually had a good dose of it coming to him. He destroyed so many people in that dreadful industry and all consumers saw was the magic. I hope he got a good punch to the snout, frankly, for all of them!
(PS: The Studio Head, who was acting on orders from the top, if the top had its nose punched, for sure.)
Louis B. Mayer was true to his word, but John Gilbert needed to take bull by the horns. Start working on acting techniques to make full use of new technology or get the hell away from MGM. I think if he had moved on to another studio, he would have become quite successful.
An early Technicolor MGM short subject shows Gilbert being sabotaged by Mayer. Turner Classic Movies has run this on cable. Gilbert later did some talkies, including an impressive double role as the hero and his memesis. Alcoholism took him in the end, I think.
The arrival of talking films was a crisis that studio heads did not allow to go to waste. I think you'll find that many a "problem" employee was shown the door with the excuse that they could not fit into the new era. Some of this jettisoning was justified and many were not.
That makes sense. J.G. had a great stage voice But his problem was elsewhere unfortunately
yelloworangered...
Yes, new technologies bring about new crises...hahahahaha what's new???
🤫🤔If Hollywood every destroyed any actor, it was sadly John Gilbert. The poor man 👨 was truly broken when he died ,so young. My personal favorite Gilbert movie 🎥, Queen 👸 Christina 1933. He and Garbo are both wonderful in it.......
"Queen Christina" is their finest film together, I think.
For what it's worth, I just read a 2015 list of 100 top silents, and three of Gilbert's films were included: He Who Gets Slapped, The Big Parade, and Flesh and The Devil. He appeared in a fourth listed, Ben-Hur: A Tale of The Christ, but he was an uncredited extra in that.
I have visited Gilbert's resting place. A very kind young man at Forest Lawn gave me precise directions or I wouldn't have found it.
I knew about Gilbert's drinking, but not about his abandonment of his first wife and child. I also didn't know that The Artist was inspired by him. I love that movie! But I saw it before I got into historical silent films.
Has anyone noticed how Gilbert Roland is often misidentified as JG?
Lesley T...
John Gilbert and Gilbert Roland are confused on account of name and looks.
I just confused him with Ronald Coleman. They look so similar. This must of been “the look” back in that era.
Two dollars a day in the early days was a big deal in itself...!
John Gilbert Ramon Novarro William Haines Conrad Nagel and Richard Barthelmess and Charles Farrell I think there careers were pretty much over which was unfair because they were the guys who started the movie business they opened the doors for Gary Cooper Clark Gable Douglas Fairbanks Jr Cary Grant Robert Montgomery Errol Flynn Robert Taylor and Tyrone Power Jr
Here today, gone Tomarrow. Its tragic but true, when it came to some young actors. Rudy Valentino was only in his late 20's, when he died, and the women went crazy, mourning for him. In John's case, I think too much, wine, women, and song, was a big part of his life, and it eventually did him in. Thanks for this vid!!
Louis B Mayer : You're finished Gilbert I'll destroy you if it costs me a million dollar
I never did dig John Gilbert, but you would have to be made of stone not to be affected by his tragedy. The misery in his eyes after 1929 is awful.
No-one destroyed Gilberts career but Gilbert.
I didn't like the last part of this summary because I don't think there is a more romantic scene ever played out than with Garbo and Gilbert in "Queen Christina". There's a story that as Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. made love to Dietrich he had to look at the photo of Gilbert on her night stand.
Yes, Garbo and Gilbert in "Queen Christina" were superb.
So sad! 😢😢😢😢
The booze.... a friend just got bladder cancer. No kid, but the after dinner two glasses of wine 5 days a week talked back.
The video was well done, well spoken but one thing prevents me from subscribing ... the hard sell every few minutes with that red subscribe button slap bang in the middle of the screen and constant reminders. If your work is good, we will subscribe anyway ... the hard sell though is simply offputting.
Very interesting and well done. I knew the name but didn't know very much about him, except that he was linked to Greta Garbo. I still wonder, though: whatever happened to the first wife? Did she just conveniently stay out of his life, even after he became famous and wealthy? Surely he must have had to settle with her somehow and unentangle legally.
Popular today. Being escorted off the studio property tomorrow. That's the Hollywood studio star system of yesteryear. What he should have done(after his initial disastrous cross over in 1929-1930)was to have his contract renegotiated with a smaller but financially justifiable salary per movie. Also moving into somewhat smaller character roles would most certainly have helped to keep his career on the right track too. 10-23-2022
Joan Crawford made millions for MGM. But when her career started going downhill she was called into Louis B. Mayer's office and he fired her.
When she asked, "Well L.B, would you at least escort me to my car?", he replied, "Oh, Joan, I couldn't do that!" He was a terrible person.
2:53,thats second lead IAN KEITH not gilbert in a scene from QUEEN CHRISTINA 1933
Many actors male and female lost there careers to sound movies
Imagine the top actor in Hollywood starting a fight because he didn’t like something somebody said and ruining his whole career.
Good thing that today’s stars are much smarter!
Absolutely apropos Paul the etc, etc.
Except for the recent drama at the Awards.😄
Paul the Audacious...well, perhaps today's actors are smarter in some ways, but I beg to differ on others. Every generation has its own set of smarties, pros and cons. John Gilbert did not do a very satisfactory job of taking the Bull by the horns when the odds were turning against him.
He back sassed the studio moguls, and drank himself to death. There is a problem with his psychology, not his voice.
Brilliantly worded title!!😁
Was anyone else thinking of Lena Lamont in "Singing in the Rain?"
Correction : Gilbert Played With Lon Chaney SR. ………………NOT JUNIOR !
Dear precious one, please repeat after me with your whole heart, "Father God, I'm a sinner and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe in the Good News that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that You resurrected Him from the dead in order to restore my relationship with You. Through my belief and faith in Jesus death, burial and resurrection, I am saved.
I want to trust Jesus as my Savior and follow Him as my Lord from this day forward. Please guide my life and help me do Your will, Your way through the Holy Spirit. This I pray in the powerful, loving and glorious name of Your Son, Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. Amen!" 🙏
Dear friend, may Father God our Creator, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior and The Holy Spirit bless you, lead you, guide you and keep you in His abundantly loving care now and for all eternity! Amen!!! ❤️🙏
I wanted to hear Gilbert speak🙁
John Gilbert had a great speaking voice, there’s no doubt about it. Better than most. I did hear the rumour that all MGM theatres were ordered by Louis B Mayor to sabotage him by running the movie at 1 and 1/3 speed to make his voice sound funny to audiences, to essentially kill his career as they had a bitter fued, since Gilbert’s aborted wedding to Garbo, where Mayor had punched him.
It seems as though the man got exactly what he deserved. No moral compass. Most of his women also got what they deserved too as his reputation was the talk of the town. I don't suffer fools.
Izzy... you have made a very good point there. Oh what a tangled web we weave!!
Just how was he "destroyed" exactly? He was still a star and his films still did well. His voice was fine.
It's not a great commentary. You researched him, but not in detail. A photo of his gravestone and age of death would end it better.
I believe he was born in 1897 not 1997.
Makes for a good movie
Just like Buster Keaton, if u didnt play by MGM rules, or they had a grudge they killed ur career.
That is NOT true that he never saw his daughter. You should watch HER videos about her father!
He was, more or less, Garbo's "fiance" but He was much much better into silent movies... Thanks God, it wasn't the same with The Divine Garbo.Her voice in Anna Christie took Hollywood by surprise // Indeed, every time I ask for a Whisky I try to imitate her cavernous and manly tone... Without any success so far!! 🥃🥃🥃
Jose Benito - keep drinking the whiskey, it’ll get there. LOL joke ppl, chill.
@@Aztec339 Thanks so much. I'll pursue your wise advice.... And don't be stingy, Baby🥃
Both Garbo and Dietrich had great voices on film.
He was destroyed by Louis b meyer
Born in 1997???!! :-)
I thought he was a good actor.
The big love of greta garbo ?
Not really.
@@SymphonyBrahms You're holding back, and so will I. Don't want to get people in a tizzy.
His first film wss REDEMPTION!!!!
Maybe he could not walk the walkie? ill have to watch.
I read somewhere it was his speaking voice , which was high .
If you watch any speaking part of his you realise his voice was a regular voice. Not high pitched at all.
I heard 35 years ago that that was the reason also
In the video, it is told that Louis Meyer dubbed his voice with a high pitched one to get revenge over being assaulted at a party
His voice wasn't high-pitched at all.
Many actor actresses have had extensive voice training to adjust their voices to movies….Melanie Griffith worked hard to lower hers. She didn’t quite succeed. She is a beautiful and a great actress, but she wasn’t one of the top mega stars. Poor thing sounded like a squeaky little mouse.
So the whole thing with this guy is that supposedly his voice ruined his career, and you do this whole video without giving a sample of it. Thumbs down..
sounds like karma got him tbhb
The story of Mayer getting slugged by Gilbert isn't true.
I never believed it for a minute, still don't.
Gilbert is OK, but I cannot get over his looks, which I find almost comical. And his nose always looks like Cyrano’s to me. He is very good with Garbo, but I think that has more to do with Garbo. My favorite G&G film is “Flesh & the Devil”.
another crash and burn vastly overpaid ( compared to depression years average ) alcoholic actor
Voice okay but not very handsome, too much nose.
Gilbert was screwed over by Louis B Mayer.
Sheriff 34...exactly...many of those who are commenting on this documentary are not listening to the factors involved with Gilbert's demise. Mayer used casting as his number one weapon to destroy Gilbert.
There wasn't anything wrong with his voice. I have seen about 3 of his sound films, and he sounded just fine to me.
You're right.
Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
Same here, I liked his voice...and his acting!
There was nothing wrong with his voice or acting. Louis B.Mayer was out to destroy his career on account of occurence between the two in restroom.
That part of LBM messing with the sound machine?. Sounds outlandish but what a concept. This could be a scene in a comedic play. Lucy and Ethel sneak into the studio and find Louie B disguised as Greek fisherman? Precious material. Handle with care.
I recently purchased a DVD of Midnight In Paris and found John Gilbert as charming, commanding, and as good in his acting and voice as any number of actors of the period. Ronald Coleman and Robert Donat come to mind. It was a very enjoyable film, if not particularly unusual, but good. He definitely had what it takes as a leading man. Our loss.
Can it be a kind of national mindset if you know what mean? Twenties and Thirties leading men in the US were deep voiced and "manly" (grossly so sometimes)... In the UK at that time they were more likely to have the golden voices of Donat or Coleman. Even a few others come to mind.
I noticed the similarity between his voice and Ronald Coleman's.
Did you perhaps mean "The Phantom of Paris"?
I've been studying and following his work of Gilbert thanks to TCM for showing his body of work. I highly recommend reading Dark Star by his daughter Leatrice Joy Gilbert Fountain. It is written with much love and respect for her late father. While he was primarily absent, he didn't forget about her. Unfortunately, his second daughter knew nothing of him thanks to her mother hiding the identity of her father. Mayer was frugal. I think Gilbert's high paycheck, contract, and stock market crash of 1929 made Mayer rethink the value of Gilbert to MGM. The rumors swirling about the double wedding and fight with Mayer have never been substantiated. I wouldn't put it past Mayer to change the sound settings but the dialogue is awful in His Glorious Night. Downstairs is one of my favorites of his which is something missing in the information provided. Gilbert longed to write, not be in front of the camera. He sold the script of Downstairs for $1 to prove himself as a writer to make the move to writing and leave acting. It's a great movie, a good storyline. Sadly, I think Gilbert burned too many bridges with his alcoholism at this point for anyone to take his writing seriously. I will one day pay my respects to his gravesite and visit the area where his home once stood in California.
He doesn't sound like a very nice person. Did he ever bother getting divorced from his earlier wives, or did he continue being a bigamist?
This profile of Gilbert's life and work is, I think, quite fair, factual and intelligent -- something exgtremely hard to find these days. IT neither white washes nor demonizes. Gilbert was not an angel, but nor was he the devil personified. Just human. Basically, he didn't do anything JFK didn't do and nobody seems to ever cry or complain about that -- unfortunately. Gilbert, in life had a fine, melodic voice, in fact. There are recordings to verify this. All indications point rather to his perhaps not taking enough interest in training that voice for dramatic use i the new medium and to use his voice as a dramatic instrument in storytelling. Not easy. Take Hepburn, for instance. A metallic voice, overlayed with a thick scissor-like Bryn Mawr elocution style of diction. Very "un-Hollywood". And yet, the melody of the way she delivers lines is marvellous, dramatic, calculated, musical, cadenced -- likely the benefit of her training with voice coach Francis Robinson Duff. Ella Fitzgerald, as another example, was born with a high, hollering girly voice, and yet, trained it into a lush, precise, crooning bel canto instrument. An amazing transformation. But not everyone is up to such a transformation. It takes work, deliberate work, which unfortunately Gilbert, occupied with "other things" didn't get around to do. LIke Joan Crawford, it is easy to forget that Gilbert had a pretty rough start in life. Nonetheless, a brilliant star, arguably the handsomest man on the screen and easily the most dashing profile in Hollywood history. Nice documentary. Thank you.
The tragic irony of his rise to fame, being the "Great Lover" on screen and disastrous relationships in real life, the coming of talkies and his early death is heartbreaking. I became a fan watching "The Big Parade" and can watch his movies with Garbo anytime without tiring of them. Great tribute to him without filtering the harsh reality. Thank you from a new subscriber!
excellent summation.
Wonderful to read such a well-informed comment. My great-grandad was in silent films and our family was raised on film industry lore. So few people nowadays know about the greatest films (in my opinion, those of the 1930s and 40s.....even though I was a teen in the 80s, these were always my favorites) and even fewer know about the silent age, even though the whole story is tremendously fascinating. As is the story of film production, itself, moving from New York to Hollywoodland.
Thank you for such a fun, measured, articulate summation.
@@lisaahmari7199 Hi There, how kind of you. Glad to do it. One sometimes gets the feeling that politicians don't understand what a great country we have and their attempts to "improve it" just ruin it. Similarly, few know what treasures lie in the past. The Gilbert/Garbo pairing was magic. And whatever he may have been in real life, he came across on screen as being so "nice". God bless!
@@jimmywhite3922 Same for me!
I've seen a couple of his sound films from the early 1930s. Voice, delivery and acting were excellent. Why didn't he just move on to another studio?? We'll never know.
Because he had a 5 year contract, with 3-4 years left on it, when 'talkies'
came in & he was very well paid to essentially, just wait it out!
Moving to another studio under the studio system wasn’t that simple of an affair. The studio system was draconian, it ruined careers, and it ruined a lot of potentially great films, and yet at the same time it also gave us many of the classics.
John Gilbert lead a hard life as a child and young man . He was a very handsome man , but he was needy . He wanted what couldn't be his . Always reaching for his mother's love . The alchohol played a huge part in his demise . But Louis B. Mayer was such a child about a punch thrown by a drunk man . It's a shame that Mr. Gilbett died so young , too young . RIP John Gilbert .
You can live without many things in life, but if you are deprived of real maternal love when you need it most (and that also includes teens). It can cause terrible hurt and a change in psyche, and I know this personally. That seems to be what he was searching for.
@@petertaylor3600: I dealt with a lot people who had either been deprived of maternal love or lost their mothers when they were born . They needed help in relationships and once they were honest about their loss , they got better , a whole lot better .
So what would your boss do if you physically assaulted them? Brush it off? I suspect you would be fired, and charged. Drunk is no excuse for
@@johnmiller8975: No ! Mr. Gilbert was known to drink heavily and Mr. Mayer knew this , but insisted on trying to make sense with a drunk man . There was ample warning that Mr. Gilbett was in not in the best of moods . You don't try to make sense with someone drunk , you stay away when you see they are getting agitated . Mr. Mayer said he was going to destroy Mr. Gilbert , which is over kill for a simple assault . Why didn't Mr. Mayer involve the police ? Instead he set out to destroy a man's career . Totally evil and excessive ! Mr. Mayer goild have asked for a formal apology the next day , and he may have received it , instead he sneakily set out to kill Mr. Gilbert's career . This was a cowardly act . They had a contract and two adults would have dealt with the situation in a mature way . Louis B. Msyer was known to be a dick in Hollywood. He was vendictive and childish .
@@robertdemitro1520 I am going to say this one more time. If I slugged my boss, no matter the provocation I would be terminated without recourse, and charged with assault as well. You remember the Oscars right? Was that OK? there was provocation enough for a response just not assault. Then there is the background on Gilbert -- sexual predator & abandonment of his family.
" The Big Parade" is one of my very favorite films, and it was my intro to John Gilbert. I've seen a few other films of his and he was great, but Big Parade remains on of my top films. I knew virtually nothing about the actor though, it's a shame his life took the turn it did, alcohol is a mean drug for a lot of people, it brings out the worst in them.
Gilbert was a charming emotional narcissist who longed for what he could never have.
AHH yes HOLLYWOOD 🤩
well put
----It would have after all this bull shit , they put a sample of his voice in this video! .what a colossal waste of time this was. Never again. I know now to avoid chit like this .
The city is pronounced Spoke-can.
Many stars of the silents were victims of nascent sound technology. It took a good two years before they had somewhat ironed out the kinks with sound editing. By then, 60% of the stars had already been sabotaged. I think it was deliberate.
It was the technology more than anything else. I don't believe that it was deliberate sabotage. Some of those actors were too famous to be thrown away by the studios. But the early sound technology was not that good..
Years ago I wondered what all the brouhaha was about Gilbert's voice being unsuited for sound. When I heard him in his "talkies" I heard nothing out of the ordinary. Didn't hear anything tinny or high-pitched. I know his diction was spot-on. At times he pronounced words just like they're spelled; like cruel. He spoke it: *_Cru-EL_* which I thought was a bit over-the-top, but funny? Naa. He sounded fine to me.
It wasn't his voice but his acting that was the problem. It was artificial and stilted.
00:31 - _..."Beautiful bombshells, bad bosses, and booze"_ (could have been _bountiful booze_ ) is a delightful bit of onomatopoeia.
Would be nice if you included his voice in this video
John Gilbert went down hill after hitting a man who made a comment about his woman, Will smith be were.
Buster boy...this just was not any man who made the comment. Louis B.Mayer, head of MGM and Gilbert's boss said, "why do you have to marry her? Why don't you just sleep with her?" This evidently enraged Gilbert to strike Mayer. This was the turning point in Gilbert's career, and Mayer was true to his word about destroying Gilbert's career. Casting was the big issue Mayer used to destroy.
John Gilbert made me think of Gilbert Roland with that little moustache.
gilbert roland changed his name when he went into movies using GILBERT from john gilbert and ROLAND from ruth roland his two favorite movie stars
I am surprised there hasn’t been a movie of his life story recently.
"I took the croupier to
A picture show
I took the croupier to
A picture show
And though I snuggled close when
The lights were low
The croupier impressed me
As rather slow
I said, "I like John Gilbert
A lot, don't you?"
I said, "I like John Gilbert
A lot, don't you?"
He didn't answer, but when
The show was through
I realized that he liked
John Gilbert, too" - Cole Porter - "I'm Unlucky At Gambling"
" Fifty Million Frenchmen"-1929
I thought I was the only one who knew that song!
im sorry, i just don't see the handsome part. what are they talking about?
bill philips... maybe you do not see, but John Gilbert was very attractive and his profile was exquisite. What many actors from his time wanted to look like...
It was handsome for that era. Tastes change, and his looks aren't considered handsome anymore.
Gilbert worked with Lon Chaney SR., not Jr. And "He Who Gets Slapped" is a Chaney film. Shearer only has a supporting role. It's a great film, well worth watching.
Not an actor I was familiar with but always find them interesting to see how they navigated their craft back then. Thanks again Brenton 🇦🇺 🇦🇺🇦🇺
It sounds like he brought about his own destruction with drinking too heavily. I was shocked to learn he was a bigamist.
Based on the John Gilbert talks I've actually seen (thank you, Turner Classic Movies), I'd say that the reason he never made the transition from silent to sound films was that, while there was nothing wrong with his voice per se, he never learned how to act with his voice, how to vary his inflections to convey emotions. A contemporary reviewer of "His Glorious Night" said that Gilbert's voice had all the passion of one assistant director asking another to lunch. I've read elsewhere that Gilbert's' mother was a stage actress named Ada Adaire, who was so free with her affections he had no idea who his biological father was - much like Marilyn Monroe, who also grew up not knowing who her dad was and who became troubled by substance abuse and died young. And I don't believe that Louis B. Mayer deliberately sabotaged Gilbert's career by ordering technicians to record his voice badly; the technology to do that simply didn't exist in 1929. In his book on the silent-to-sound transition, "The Shattered Silents: How the Movies Learned to Talk," Alexander Walker argued that the reason Ronald Colman managed the transition just fine while Gilbert didn't was that Colman was under contract to a boutique producer, Sam Goldwyn, who carefully stage-managed his caree. Goldwyn realized the heavy-breathing romance that had made Colman a silent star wasn't going to work in sound films and gave him a comedy-mystery, "Bulldog Drummond," as his first talkie, while Mayer thrust Gilbert into old-fashioned scripts like "His Glorious Night" and a Tolstoy adaptation called "Redemption" as his first sound films.
Louis B. Mayer was true to his word about destroying Gilbert's career, if not by Sound technology, definitely by casting. John Gilbert, if he realized this, needed to take the bull by the horns. Start working on his acting techniques to make full use of new technology and/or get the hell away from MGM. I think he could have moved on to another studio and become quite successful.
What you have to understand, is the public listened with great anticipation when both the Hollywood Review of 1929 and His Glorious Night-1929 came out. In both pictures Gilbert's highly affected overly dramatic delivery made audiences laugh. (Listen to them yourself) Gilbert quickly adjusted his acting style but the damage was already done. There was also a major falling out between Gilbert and Louis B. Mayer, the head of the studio. Mayer dramatically cut the number of pictures Gilbert made so it became even more difficult for Gilbert to redeem himself with his public, forcing Gilbert to put out a notice in the Hollywood trade papers stating the MGM will neither release him from his contract or give him any films to play in. Sadly Gilbert died of a heart attack just a couple years later a completely broken man.
I feel his performance in Queen Christina was sometimes overwrought as well.
So many actors then had their careers ended when Talkies started and their own speech wasn't up to reality. But it must have hit him hard, more than some of the others. Rejected by his parents he was rejected later in life by others and learned to be vain and selfish. Not altogether his fault, life teaches people to grow a shell like that. Sorry for the poor guy but it's too late now.
"Highly AFFECTED" (not effected..
please)
@@phaworth8520 Bad manners to correct anybody's spelling here unless requested. Even though your correction was right.
What was reprehensible was the controlling power producers, of the Louis B.kind had over these people. The industry, with its superficial glamour and style, that hid a hideous underbelly, and which could ruin talented people it decided to destroy. The terrible thing is, they got completely away with it.
You don't know what you are talking about
Google him, his voice sounds fine.
Do you know the difference between Lillian Gish, Greta Garbo and Joan Crawford ?
With so many phots available, the sound and pictures could be co- ordinated !!
I totally agree with that. The lack of coordination between the photos and narration made this video extremely frustrating to watch.
I would like more information as to what became of his first wife and child.
It's never a good idea to get drunk at a party when the boss is present.
10 CC song called Anonymous Alcoholic about that very subject.
Dominick Scialo is another great example. He publicly disrespected Carlo Gambino one night when he was drunk.
He was dusmissed Mob style, by being tortured and then murdered. And then they killed a couple of his buddies just to emphasize what happens to employees who exhibit lack of decorum in front of the boss.
Terrific Profile of a barely known actor these days.
Why does everybody seem to have a British accent like this
That accent was popular back then.
2:53,thats IAN KEITH not john gilbert,both were in QUEEN CHRISTINA 1933
The problem was not with John Gilberts voice in his first Talkie-----The problem was with the times he lived in-----they expected the ultimate manly image of a voice the public would expect.!
It wasn't his voice. It was his stilted acting style that destroyed his career.
John Gilbert had a fine speaking voice and I don't agree that he did not adapt to the technology of sound movies. "Downstairs" from 1932 is an excellent movie and Gilbert's performance is simply great! John Gilbert's career failed primarily from bad movies, alcoholism and Gilbert's person demons.
Gilbert delivered the best "male lead"-type of role in the history of the Silents with "The Big Parade". I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the story of Mayer sabotaging Gilbert's audio. A decade earlier, director Alan Dwan was settling disputes with Edison's thugs with pistol-shooting contests down on the Mexican border. Southern California was still the Wild West in the early decades of the 20th century. Anything went and often did. Iirc, Gilbert's mother was practically turning tricks to stay off the street - a grim life for a child. He ran away. Got work at a film studio as a teenager. Died at the absurd age of 38 from disappointment, who knows how many cigarettes, and rivers of hard booze. He died in his mansion at Bel Air, surrounded by gold-digging lady ghouls. For those asking, he apparently left his daughter some money.
Gilbert actually continued to make films for MGM through 1933. His last filmed appearance was for Columbia in 1934 for "The Captain Hates The Sea". Even without the bad talkie debut, Gilbert's fate would most likely have been the same because his voice did not match what audiences expected, plus they just wanted new faces after sound came in. Lots of stars lasted from the transition to sound and into the talkie era for a few years, only to have their careers die out. A lucky few who had great voices, like William Powell, actually had their stars rise and go from supporting player to leading actors.
Nice and interesting but I'm disappointed that you didn't have a clip of his voice.
Reginald Owen knew LB Mayer and John Gilbert. Reggie wrote that from the earliest sound features and could control the voice pitch and Mayer sabotaged Gilbert. I knew Reggie and have his memoirs. He says Mayer treated him (Reggie) well but not Gilbert or Von Stroheim.
"He seemed to age rapidly"
John Gilbert's eyelashes were gorgeous.
he was a dishonorable cad who set himself up for failure - he would fit right into today's world.
Anything containing "cad"... I'm in!
A talentless churl exposed by the advent of sound film. I love happy endings.
destroying actors for their voice was the first attempt at cancellation, i dont see why they cancelled Clara Bow who was charming and kept Greta Garbo who has no expression
I Heard A " Disagreement "with Louis B
"Devastatingly handsome"
Thats NOT entirely true about his daughter!