ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2021
- Over the Manchester Ship Canal, you'll find the Hulmes Ferry, the Thelwall Ferry, and the Warburton Toll Bridge. They're all strange in their own way, all under the control of one company, and all dating back to old laws and legal documents from a hundred years ago. I was in the area, so I stopped by, and found that things might be changing soon.
REFERENCES:
Manchester Ship Canal Act (1885)
Rixton and Warburton Bridge Act (1863)
(NOTE: it looks like permission for the toll bridge was set up by the 1863 Act, but that was a different bridge over the River Mersey, and the laws and permissions were transferred over to the Ship Canal when they needed a bigger bridge and it is a complete mess of legal wrangling. As it doesn't affect the final story, I quietly elided that whole section because it was far too dull!)
Other references:
moneyweek.com/414922/11-novem...
hulmesferry.co.uk/
www.manchestereveningnews.co....
www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...
www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...
www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/...
www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/...
www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/...
www.warburtontollbridge.co.uk...
Inflation calculator: www.bankofengland.co.uk/monet...
And thanks in particular to Stuart at the Hulmes Ferry for friendly conversation when I arrived!
🟥 MORE FROM TOM: www.tomscott.com/
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As always, the references I used for the video are in the description! I'm worried that I've messed up some minor point of law - and I did gloss over some nuance, you can see that in the description - but I'm as sure as I can be.
1 week ago?
I love ur content keep it up!
@@TANNAPON it's probably unlisted
@@lucky-ro732 not probably, it WAS unlisted
Hi
I just want to reiterate Tom's message about "use it or lose it" and the log book. If you visit a quirky place that has a guestbook, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sign it. That is often what these tiny organizations will use to justify their continued existence to their investors.
Oh hey thats good to know
Commenting to bump up visibility
wonder what would happen if I sign in using 5 different names :^)
Никогда бы не подумал что это так работает. О_О
Commenting to make it more visible
At the 5p bridge near Oxford I saw a guy hand over £20 note and ask to pay for the next 400 cars. Tollkeeper just said "no change" and charged the next car 5p again 😂
How British, for both of them..
I was just thinking this would be the best job ever. Probably make £200,000 a year just pocketing the extras.
I was wondering if anyone else was going to mention that bridge! (The Swinford Toll Bridge for anyone wondering)
Bruh did him dirty
To be fair, that was probably also so that the tollkeeper wouldn't have to count 399 cars after him before collecting again (as well as the headache of having to explain to that car following the cutoff about why they have to pay when everyone ahead of them was just waved through).
"Water Level to low" code for he's at the pub refilling his water level
If the water level really was too low for THAT boat you could just wade across.
@@tncorgi92 Could be too low at the landing stage but go out a few metres and it is over your head.
*mainly water
The pub is two minutes walk from there :)
haha yes, the water might have a bit of barley in it though ;)
For anyone curious, the "two shillings and a sixpence" original toll amounts to 1/8 of a pound, which is why following decimalisation the toll changed to 12p and has stayed as such since.
You'll probably find the toll was 12 1/2p up until about 1983/4 when the half-penny was removed from circulation. The logical thing to do in such circumstances would be to round according to established mathematical principles (i.e. up) but I suspect the original act is worded in such a way that it would be illegal to charge more than the 2/6 specified.
Technically that's wrong because the original pound was 240 so it should be actually 20p.
@@tomg6589 When decimalisation came in the pound stayed static, not the penny.
I remember crossing it 20+ years ago and thinking 12p seems very cheap. What happens when some gives them 15p or 20p? Do they have to declare that as a tip?
@@matnichol They usually give change, assuming they have it available. I think this may have stopped for a while during COVID but has gone back to the way it was now. I used to cross it for work many years ago and noticed they always had stacks of 2p coins ready and waiting (to the value of 8p) so they could quickly issue change to people who paid with a 20p coin.
Maybe "water levels too low" is code for "ferryman at his day job for money required to live."
Hehe yup probably :,)
beer levels too low
Does make me wonder how much "obscure ferry rower" makes. (Sounds like a job for a summer/college student.)
You'd hope they're getting paid for full time
Just like how "I'll check if we've got it in back" is retail code for "I'm going to take a cursory glance, chat with anybody else in the warehouse and check my phone for a couple minutes because I know full well the item you're looking for is not in back but you'll ask me to check anyway"
Get in quick! These are going to bombarded with Tom Scott tourists soon. I’m sure the rowing one is going to be getting very tired.
A good workout for sure xD
Well at least locals won't have to worry about losing them through lack of use now will they!
Some people scare me ^^
bro this bot is freaking out
@@bt42_howitzer yes which is why I’m trying to report it when I see it! Help Tom out !
I freaking love the pricing for the Thelwall ferry. Passengers: 1/2p. Dogs: 1/2p. Doesn't give a price for cats or ferrets, oddly.
Foxes, Chickens and Grain 1 shilling, or thruppence if you do your own maths.
It's well known and established in common law that a cat is 1/4 of a dog, and ferrets are 1/3 of a cat. Smaller rodents such as mice do not count unless a half-dozen or more are carried, and then you need special ribbons.
Yea , those could be hidden in a large poachers pocket!!
@@googiegress7459 🤣
“Whenever required…” the ferry services were imposed as alternative to bridges that had to be removed to make way for the canal. Therefore the purpose of the ferries is to provide a way to cross the canal as with the bridges which were useable 24/7. So that would favour the “whenever somebody needs to cross the canal” interpretation and require a 24 hour permanent service. Of course, a corporate lawyer working for a company with an interest to provide the minimal possible service it can get away with might see things differently.
Not at all, as if there is no need for such a ferry due to a trickle of demand, then it woud no longer be required at all, much like a bridge that would have been on the spot instead.
@@KainYusanagi Actually, they should just place a boat there, tie it in with ropes and let people who want to cross it paddle themself..then check everyday if the boat is alright and done.
@@foty8679 You'll need two boats, one to stay on the other side since there's no longer a person rowing the boat from bank to bank. Put two of those paddle boats you operate with your feet!
Weird word to be honest. Both these statements can be simultaneously true:
The ferry is required to cross the river right here.
The ferry is not required to cross the river.
The question being, required for what exactly? I think the fair legal answer would be required to cross the canal, which you can usually do via the bridge.
@@protercool8474 There was always another bridge even when the original bridge existed at that spot. So this interpretation does not hold at all.
Demand does have some ground though.
He's not wrong about Peel group, they own tons of land and property in greater Manchester and beyond too, it's like they are trying to create their own little kingdom in the North West of England
The Canal is probably one of their smallest moneymakers (though with the potential construction of Port Salford that might change). The vast amount of prime city center land and skyscrapers on the other hand...
The UK is also probably one of the most if not THE most intricate old-money financial networks in the world, the most famous being the city of London.
Not surprised they have tons of hidden agreements by various parties that still hang over from centuries ago, that have been divided by their off-spring into smaller factions like the Peel group today.
relevant profile pic i guess
They own most of Liverpool's dockland and Liverpool Airport aswell.
Peel group have all liverpool docks and i was down at sheerness last week, peel own those docks too
So many of those weird idiosyncrasies in British law boil down to "it would take more effort to remove this and also it doesn't bother anyone anyway"
Sad
As a foreigner I find that actually quite interresting.
@@maguy8133 Why sad? If it bothered someone enough to change it and they couldn't, then *that* would be sad ;-)
Market towns are hit by the same issue. An act of Parliament set them up so it would require another one to amend each individual market charter. That's 100s of tiny towns dotted over the country. Also, their company numbers are so old they aren't accepted by the government website and so can't fill out online tax returns.
@@tomblet9359 oof
Now I finally understand what anarchy in the UK is! Abiding by centuries-old laws to slightly inconvenience multi-billion dollar companies.
19th century is hardly centuries. But I get your point. And agree.
@@garethaethwy I don't know, two still makes a plural. Now, one point five, on the other hand, well, that's where chaos lies.
yes. _100%_ true!!
When your so lawful it integer overflows into being anarchist
It's honest work..
4:12 A 67% tip? Ridiculous! It seems Tom is living large...
If it were a tip, then the operator would get to keep it, which I very much doubt. 🙁
Live near the Warburton bridge myself, 12 or 25p for the day. They want to rise it to £1 but people are proper mad about it. Problem is, the 12p only pays for painting and staff as well as other minor repairs, £1 is thought within the next 20 years or so to be able to pay for a brand new bridge. The one currently is said to be structurally sound but is slowly decaying. Its a strange situation. Its an incredibly well used bridge as it connects west manchester to warrington, its quite convenient. Great video, its a terrific local quirk.
This is infrastructure that clearly should be for public use, why aren't the government (local or otherwise) doing their job and just funding a new bridge instead of charging locals only to have it paid for after 20 years? We pay exorbitant amounts of taxes and they can't even maintain/build a bridge smh. You bet they're not gonna a reduce or remove the charge once they'd paid for it as well.
@@tenaciousdean6179 It's owned by a private company. They agreed to maintain it when they bought the land which came with it. It's their responsibility not the government. They'll have to fix it up eventually either way because the law says so. So there is no reason for government involvement.
JFI the big bridge is not the toll bridge, the toll bridge is at the booth. Peel own the big one.
@@HomoErectusIsAFunnyName Okay so keep the 12p charge AND improve the bridge then?
@@tenaciousdean6179 Why do you ask me? I am not the CEO of Peel. Tell them to not raise the prices. Or better yet, tell that to the local government officials since the price is written in law so only the government can change it.
But I don't understand why it is incomprehensible for you that a company doesn't want net loss on an investment.
2 shillings and sixpence: a shilling is 1/20 of a pound (in new money that would be 5 pence, 10 for the pair), and a six pence is 0.025 of a pound (new money 2.5 pence) for a total of 12.5 pence. I'm impressed they kept all the relative values intact through decimalisation.
Yes they did same applies to why the toll for the cob in Porthmadog stayed at 5p right up until the Welsh government bought it about 20 years ago. The toll had been capped at a shilling some 200 years earlier and nobody ever got around to pushing for it to be changed.
Decimalisation was also carefully designed to be a smooth transition to help with things like this. So the original 5p coin was exactly the same size and interchangeable with the shilling. There was also a 1/2 p coin originally so 12.5p could be exact.
Interesting that they rounded the price down instead of up, but that's probably legal hell
@@MrHack4never the half of a penny 'loss' is more than made up for by those, like Tom, that overpay
@@MrHack4never I would guess that the actual text of the law provided a maximum value. Thus rounding down would be legal as it is still bellow the cap but rounding up would not be.
Ah yes. You'll have difficulty getting Peel Holdings, for an interview. They own most of the land flanking the Manchester Ship Canal area. And a massive number of homes built within a few miles, over the last 40 years are 'leasehold'. Meaning a huge number of people in the most populated parts of the North West have to pay Peel Holdings, every year, to live in a property that they thought they had bought!
The notion that Peel Holdings / Peel Group, would have so "save up" for a new bridge at Warburton is absurd. The company is owned by a reclusive billionaire, who lives in a tax haven (IOM). The Manchester Ship Canal is in a shocking state of dis-repair. The company only appears to spend money on it, when it absolutely has to. Preferring to just rake in the cash from the surrounding land. They built & owned the Trafford Centre, until a record breaking sale, a couple of years ago. I guess they also earn a few quid, from their Media City development in Salford. Where they now lovingly provide a home for the UK's biggest television / media corporations. What could possibly be in it for them???
The local councils etc aren't able to do anything about any of this though, because Peel own more of the North West, and have more money, than the government do.
Yet they will still ask any motorist. Even someone on a motorbike (unlike any other "toll" system). To stop. Take off gloves etc, and rummage round in pockets, just so they can have another 12 pence in the bank!
pmsl Peel don't have more money than the government. Apple and Google combined don't. Although some of these companies are obscene, I think you are massively overestimating them compared to counties the size of the UK or larger (or even slightly smaller).
@@wyterabitt2149 they dont have more money than the gov but £6.6 billion(as of 2011) is still alotta money for a company that doesn't do jack. Charging 12p is silly enough but upping it to £1 is pure cheek. These guys have way more than enough money to fix it themselves but no, they'd rather us pay for it cause they're a bunch of hoarding bastards. Give it time and they'll end up having more than the gov lmao
An investment group investing to make money and spending as little as possible… I am surprised. Don’t agree with it mind, but not surprised.
@@Galloway5090 Sure like I said the money they have is obscene still relatively speaking. The OP was just very much overestimating these companies, or possibly underestimating governments - one or the other.
I dont know about Britian but I assume its very similar property law to New Zealand. Here Leasehold is very common if not the most common form of holding a title of land, its jsut that in 99.9% of cases you hold the lease for 999 years at 1c a year.
So weird seeing Tom so close to home! Never thought anyone else would take notice of that old 12p Toll road, there’s a bit of confusion around it. Most people believe it collects toll for a bridge a few hundred meters from it, when in fact it actually collects toll for a completely unnoticeable tiny bridge that it sits right next to!
the manchester ship canal should be blown up
@@ms.antithesis How exactly do you blow up a canal?
@@henrywong7607 cut off the water supply and then blow up all the major inferstructure related to it
I live by these crossings. I’ve taken my kids across the hulmes ferry. He’s a very nice bloke. But the toll bridge is always a nightmare. Someone set fire to the toll booth a couple of years ago it is that hated.
It's hated because you're not paying to go over the big Warburton bridge, that's free to cross. You're paying to 12p to cross a small bricked bridge at the booth.
@@paulspyker3749 A small bridge that serves no purpose as the River Mersey that flow under it got filled in, no one realises that bridge exists between Warburton bridge and the paying booth.
For a second I thought you said "I set fire to the toll booth..." and I was only slightly concerned
@@andrewbradley318 Peel Group bought the company, both bridges are toll now.
I never thought I'd be excited to watch a video about river crossings
Lindybeige has a 40 min long essay on the topic titled "The importance of river crossings in the olden days" if that strikes your fancy.
The Monk's ferry at monksferry was run by monks across the Mersey from medieval times as other ferrys had a tenancy to throw you overboard and steal your belongings when dead.
xD Ikr
They could build a Schmid's Peoplemover over the canal though :D
Laughed out loud!
Or a parry people mover?
I realize what I like about Tom. His tones are of an eminent finality. There's closure in the delivery, a tonal testament that gives me a soothing sense of deliberate and sincere appreciation for both the presentation and the content.
"because it isn't worth the effort" is an analogy for the english gov in it's entirety.
And welsh
@@DyslexicMitochondria hey bro I watch your videos. Love your channel
The request and cost of changing that law would fall to the Pell Group.
...there is no English gov, but I get your point...
Including the idea of having an English government, which we don't. Because it's not worth the effort.
You're a preserver of history, in many senses. England, and the world, owe you a debt of gratitude. Thanks for the content, Tom :)
As a daily user of this the toll bridge for commuting, if you cross during rush hour you can be delayed for 30 minutes to an hour. If there is a problem on the M6 Thelwall viaduct it can be even longer.
It costs me about £65 a year to use it at the moment, if they get their way with the increase it will be over £600 a year.
Since you made the video their covid restrictions have been lifted and they are charging both ways and day tickets and change are now available again.
The bridge you have shown is not the toll bridge, the toll bridge went over the river Mersey near to the booth and has now been filled in.
Got dangerously close to the Wirral there.
I understood that reference
Anybody kindly explain?
Nowhere near the Wirral !
@@anch95Tom has stayed in previous videos (i think it was a Park Bench episode) that his least favourite place in the world is The Wirrel.
@@anch95 it's a shithole
I was driving to Dunham Massey from Salford in April during the pandemic but not in a lockdown. Saw the toll bridge sign and started stressing thinking I needed a few pounds but was relieved to see it was only 12p as I had that change. Turns out I didn't need it as the toll booths were closed, and for some strange reason I felt a little cheated.
I'm local and cross it regularly, it always felt a bit weird not paying it.
Where's my troll? I demand to be threatened with being eaten! Oh, my mistake, 12p, then?
They'll have a contactless reader by the end of the year I should imagine
Too tru about the guilt. I wanna pay 25 p
Could they do ETC ?
Warburton Toll Bridge increased the toll from 12p to £1 last week.
Amazing! After purchasing a house in the 50s, my Grandparents were gifted a 3 piece suite from my Grandad's auntie. My grandad managed to get the sofa and 2 arm chairs in a hand cart and used the Hulmes Ferry to cross the canal and take it to their new home.
I'm shocked you didn't visit the swing aqueduct as it's just down the road from the Hulmes ferry; although I feel like you might have covered that already.
Also local rumours tell that the 12p toll is not actually for the warbuton bridge, but a much smaller bridge between it and the toll booth, that crosses a small section of a farmers land.
Tom, I really appreciate your videos on the quirky bits of historic infrastructure we Brits have. They're so often a really rather lovely insight into our collective identity as a nation - this being a perfect example - "it'd be more annoying to change in that continue putting up with it". How brilliantly British.
Totally. It makes me sad inside when people want to phase the quirky little things out.
The idea of “how British” is just pride talking. I’m not sure these quirky things say anything about our collective identity tbh.
We don’t have a collective identity because we’re an increasingly multi-cultural society. Right or wrong. That’s what we are.
National pride has always struck me as weird anyway. Being proud of a patch of earth that you just so happen to be born on, through no participation of your own.
It’s good that we’re different I suppose. It means there are those willing to learn about this stuff and share it with the rest of us via TH-cam videos
@@CursedWheelieBin A multi-cultural society leads to a mono-culture based on no culture at all.
Tom _peels_ back the curtain on river/canal crossings exposing the minutiae of a large corporations responsibilities involved in getting the people to the other side.
I see what you did there
I shall still get there in good time🍦🥡🥠🥟🍡🍥🍤
Once upon a time there was 😅😄😃🤣😂😁😀
What the heck
This reminds me of my undergraduate degree- the school I attended was legally called “Colorado Seminary” but is known everywhere else as the University of Denver. Why? Well the schools charter predates the state and is incorporated in the Colorado Constitution (despite being a private university) and would require a constitutional amendment to rename it.
The fact that you have quietly converted us into following your full-on journalism - and no one noticed - wow. All glory to the HypnoTom. Standing ovation. Love it.
All glory to Hypno-Tom!
Not really the point of the video, but the lack of free public information on land ownership in the UK is a scandal. The way that corporations like The Peel Group, and massively wealthy families can practically secretly own and acquire vast swathes of land just seems so wrong. And maybe more people would think it was a problem if the information was freely available
Lmao you all sandbagged corbyn, you deserve your serfdom
Would be interesting to have a detailed map of corporate owned land, buildings and other things. If you added estimated sale value and yearly rent income it would be even better.
Who Owns England by Shrubshole does a very comprehensive job on land ownership.
Also, the idea that you would have to pay 1 pound to cross that small bridge is ludacrious. This is what happens when you let private companies take over. It should be paid by taxes.
@@MozTS : If more information like this were freely available, then the public night know better than to sandbag Corbyn.
boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I watch Tom Scott vids on company time
I hope you get fired
that is if you even have a job commie millennial
@@water8970 Lmao
@@water8970 Angry much? When I was doing inhouse software dev I every now and then also watched a vid or two on youtube to get my mind back again. That often helps in productivity. Of course it shouldn't go out of hand..
@@water8970 Imagine being pro exploitation. That's a super-weird stance to take, when you think about it.
The Torpoint ferry is another interesting one as it is two hundred thirty years old.
There are 3 of them and they each have a slipway and at peak times there is one every 10 minutes it takes 10 more minutes to cross the river
40p for a motorbike
£2 for a car below 3.5t £1 with Tamertag
£4.90 for a car over 3.5t £2.45 with Tamertag
This also applies to vans, trucks and buses, buses also get a priority and emergency vehicles in an emergency the ferry will also move faster if this is the case. If I were to guess it probably make £2,000,000-£500,000 a year this includes maintenance. This ferry is 24 hours a day 365 days a year it only stops for maintenance then only 2 operate or in Extreme winds and rain at high tide when they can’t land.
There also the Windermere Ferry (Mallard) on Windermere (a lake for those who don't know). It's a cable ferry.
Is it still the case that no matter whether you use the ferry or the Tamar bridge, it's free to get into Cornwall but you have to pay to get out?
@@jonchambers131 yes that is right
Exactly the kind of content I look forward to every Monday! These old laws, these things that still run/happen/are maintained after so many years, this is all such interesting stuff.
There seem to be so many quirky little things like these in the UK
Dunno what you mean mate. [ushers geese across London Bridge on his way to pay the rent with a horseshoe and six nails]
The us have got a lot of stuff too, along the lines of "world's eighth largest spoon" by the side of the road
That is becuse we have a history
It is a country crushed by its own anachronism.
@@artful1967 Plus no invasions or major upheavals in recent history.
7:25 "The company has noticed it"
It's like talking about a gigantic dragon. Uh oh, he's spotted us...
indeed. utterly right!
My favorite weird crossing in the US is the Kinzua Bridge. It's an old railway tressel over a broad valley. It was once the world longest viaduct. After train traffic along that route decreased significantly, the bridge was permanently closed and started to be restored as a tourist attraction. Unfortunately a few years into the project an F1 tornado rolled through the area (an extremely rare event) and toppled the bridge about a quarter of the way across. It would cost a kingly sum of $45 million dollars to fully restore the bridge to it's former glory, so the state just left it as is.
It has become a tourist attraction in its own right. And you can walk out onto the shortened span and look down the dizzying 300ft to the valley floor below, or you can hike among the twisted and mangled metal that lays on the ground.
I always liked it as it has this odd charm to it. The idea that a broken bridge is still appealing to us. Plus the area surrounding it is one of Pennsylvania hidden outdoor gems.
I’m an Englishman but I’ve been there, is indeed very cool, even the Amish love to wander around it for a day out!
just looked it up, its fantastic, heart-breaking it got half destroyed. What an incredible bit of engineering
Another brilliant Tom Scott video.
A guiding principle in my life has been "always look for the bigger solution." Don't settle on a quick, cheap, short-term answer when there is a bigger, better long-term answer. But those bridges and ferries? What is the "bigger solution"? Anything "bigger and better" is likely to make it all-but impractical for ramblers and cyclists to cross that canal. Do we still need the Manchester ship canal? Probably yes. But are the users of that canal willing to subsidise ferry and bridge service for cyclists, pedestrians and tourists? Do they have the legal right or political standing to get them out of that obligation?
There aren't easy answers here. We cannot easily reshape the world to suit our every desire. But thanks again for illustrating how complicated - and fascinating - the world we live in is.
It’s pronounced Thel-wall, same as the viaduct, two of the biggest and busiest bridges in England on the M6.
Back 20 years ago when the newest bridge (North bound) was build, they put in the wrong dampeners underneath and they had to shut it for 2 years, there were 2 hour queues for the 12p bridge.
Heaven forbid the government ever spend a penny on infrastructure outside of London, that’s why the peel group own everything and build everything for us.
Haven’t you heard of bojo’s levelling up ?? …… just you wait and see, just don’t hold your breath
spot on. 1000% spot on.
I live near Warburton bridge and the local people got so annoyed with the toll a couple of years ago that they burned the booth down and there was no fee for a while until it was rebuilt. I also work for the company who operates Hulme ferry and have to drive it when the usual driver isn't there.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 Maybe rent a bulldozer.
Oh Tom, did you really have to give that multi-billion dollar company an extra 8p?
About 10 miles north of York, locals can cross the River Ure at Aldwark by car via an old toll bridge, at a cost of 40p per crossing (it went up from 15p in about 2000). The bridge was supposedly originally constructed so that farmers could get animals and produce across the river (I think the limit is now 7 tonnes).
There are not many bridges across the River Ouse north of York, so the toll bridge does save a long drive and having to use the congested York outer ring road (built in 1989 and the nearest crossing over the Ouse, some 7 miles downstream). The River Ure becomes the Ouse just downstream of Aldwark Bridge.
Books of pre-paid tickets can be purchased at a cheaper rate (to avoid the hassle of change, though I believe you can also pay by card now) and it is free to cross between 7.30pm and around 7am the next morning. Many is the time I have driven a bit slower on my way home after 7pm, just for the joy of a free crossing!
Why are Tom Scott’s videos always SO entertaining. Keep up the good work 👍
the house, and thought🧗♀️🤹♀️🤹♂️🤺🤾♀️🤾♂️🤽♀️
go into her room, don’t 🤙🤘🖖🤞✌️👇
The toll bridge is fairly well known but I've lived in Manchester my whole life and never heard of either of these ferries, interesting!
That boat in the thumbnail is the most adorable boat Ive ever seen
As mentioned already the one way fare is 12.5p but when we lost the 1/2 p it was rounded down to 12p. But the return fare is still 25p (twice 12.5p) so its cheaper to buy two singles. Also the toll isn't for the bridge but the road leading up to the bridge.
Amongst their vast portfolio Peel Holdings also owns the Trafford Centre and tons of other land around it. You wouldn't believe the amount of land and property they own all along the length of the Manchester Ship Canal.
I use the Warburton bridge every so often. My Grandad uses it it about 4 times daily. This was an eerie video to watch
This 8 minute Tom Scott video is the definition of "if I had more time, this would have been shorter". Great job though!
Myself and a colleague got lost on a works do and went through this toll. We were both confused by its existence but laughed it off. The guy let us through without paying as we had no change haha! Thanks for covering Tom
Thank's for another great video Tom. I love these olden day system's that were put into place and are still kept by the local people till this day. I believe they should be kept indefinitely for the sake of historical purpose and so that people can still use today.
If it wasn't for the needed repairs (or replacement), that £250,000ish a year must be close to a break-ever number for the bridge.
If it costs 8M to replace the bridge, then it's paid for itself over 32 years of tolls. The bridge has been in use, with said toll, for many more years than that, and those tolls were made when the pound was significantly more expensive, so those funds re-invested would have inflated in value over time, as well. Even if for whatever reason they were just banked... they've more than made the cost to replace the bridge.
@@KainYusanagi you are forgetting repairs, wages, insurance, accounting fees etc.
In the past it probably was making money but 250k is not much these days. So it loses money
@@dreed100 Hah, you think any money made was going to maintenance? Nah, just sit and collect. Once the bridge is in such bad condition it has to be replaced you force everyone to pay for it
@@gregor00005 bridges need regular maintenance or they will rust very easily. This bridge gets a car every 30 seconds so damage to it, to the road, is constant.
Hence yes. It needs maintenance, certifications, inspections etc. Which happens as from the video the bridge does not look bad.
Maybe the owner is indeed not paying for it, there is some requirement for third party to bear the costs.
But based on toms video it does not seem the case
Edit
Judging from street view tough, not enough is indeed spent.
@@gregor00005 I can taste the salt
With so many videos on infrastructure, how hasn't Tom done a video on the Eddystone Lighthouse yet?? It's an amazing story, check it out.
or how the canal got finished with help of rate payers of manchester corporation
I really appreciate the subtitles you always add. I know it adds effort / cost to the video, but it really helps!
Thanks for this video, Tom. I don't live far from the ship canal and in my 57 years I'd never heard of the ferries until now. Our family will be using them in the next week or two, just for fun...
This has a real parliamentary train vibe about it. Random ferries and things running because it's less effort than killing them off!
My mum worked on the Thelwall Viaduct for a time as an engineer, many many years ago. It's pronounced as it's spelled: Thelwall. Thankfully, that 'h' decided to be nice this time instead of trying to be a silent ninja and annoying everyone in the process.
Thank you for your ten years! Your videos opened my interest in so many fields and eased me through my hardest times!
Park bench, citation needed and two of these people are lying helped me a lot, too!
Thank you so much! and hope to see you again!
Seems like a cool place
Oh good lord. Tom Scott in my neighbourhood. Hulmes Ferry was stopped for a year, because the old ferrymaster retired, so Peel had to find a new one, and train them up. Took time.
ah Peel Group, who are happily allowing the bridges across the canal to rot away
There's a bridge in Eynsham in Oxfordshire, that's 5p a crossing, it sold recently (2009) for £1,080,000 the owners get the income from it untaxed! It's a very busy bridge!
This is one of the best yet, Tom. Thank you.
The updated two shilling and sixpence toll was rounded down from 12 1/2 pence, when our halfpenny (said as HAYpnee) was scrapped in 1984. There were 12 pennies in a shilling.
Literally 1984
Don't know why they just didn't do away with the toll altogether, ie round it down to 0 pence!
@@m53goldsmith did you... not actually *watch* the video?
Just in case anyone is confused old pre-decimal money had 12 pennies to a shilling which became 5 pennies to the shilling after decimalisation. A sixpence coin was equivalent to two and half pennies but didn't survive the UK's switch to decimalisation
@@bakerloobadboy The only coins to be kept were the bob and two-bob bits. That's how one- and two-shilling coins were nicknamed and where the saying 'Not short of a Bob or two' came from. I used the saying in a job where we had three of our four engineers called Bob.
It's not often corporate indifference creates something nice.
I like the videos for their uniqueness and quirky ness, but what I love about your videos are the way you interweave the great wisdom into them...hats off to you
📲✚④④⑦⑤②③⑥⑨⑨④③⑦wh𝔞𝔱s𝔞p✅&
Thanks for commenting/
Brilliant video. I've used all these crossings at some point and i love how they're maintained due to laws created such a long time ago.
I saw this title in my subscription tab and wondered what it was, then thought, Monday, Tom time.
His videos feel mildly educational so I don't feel guilty about watching them... haha
Even a 100% educational videos don't give us an excuse. Since we can't apply it for job/career purposes (most of the time)
@@maguy8133 why feel guilty for enjoying yourself?
@@maguy8133 I don't have an excuse to watch educational videos because they don't directly apply to making money? That should apply to college, not ALL OF life and ALL the content you watch ever. What kind of a boring life would that leave you with? I enjoy learning all sorts of things even if they won't make me money. It's called wonder and curiosity. You might need a little more of that 😂
I really enjoy the improvised videos you make!
I work on the Manchester Ship Canal. It's brilliant to see a slice of my life on TH-cam.
The North West has a good few other tolls as well:
Runcorn Bridge x 2
Mersey Tunnels x 2
Amazing , I like how in depth you went
This proves that legal laws are no rigid fixtures, and just negotiations between some parties of people, saved such in some documentation.
Their significance lies so long as the agreement between the concerned parties, that changes with time.
Amazing to see a story of my home village. I grew up in Thelwall (soft Th like theatre) and moved to Canada 40 years ago. The Pickering Arms pub has writing on it saying “In the year 923 King Edward the Elder founded a cyty here and called it Thelwall”. Thelwall means Wall of Trees (or thels)
I like this. A lot. My audit I did today, is measley and tight by comparison. Thank you for your work and time Tom.
I drive over a little toll bridge near Bath every day which costs only 5p each way.
The main toll bridge costs £1, and there are insanely long queues for it. It's really annoying to drive in and out of Bath, there's barely any way over the river Avon.
an 11p rowing trip over a canal that has existed for 120 years has a very specific charme that is difficult to find outside the british isles
I really love your videos, they're super informative and fun 👌
I used to use that bridge every week and during rush hours there could be over an hour wait to cross. A couple of years ago someone petrol bombed the kiosk, obviously they'd had enough
I love that Tom Scott has a thing for river crossings in the same way that Sam from We dover loves logistics and planes
Tom, it is a pity that you had to do your research at short notice because there is another interesting quirk about the Warburton toll bridge. The original toll bridge was over the River Mersey and predates the construction of the canal by some 20 years. When the canal was constructed and the new bridge was built, the toll was applied to it. You still cross the old bridge just after leaving the toll booth, You can see the original stone parapets and below it the original course of the Mersey, now dry and turned into farm land.
Gosh I love how subtitles are on all Tom's videos. And I've watched so many now that I can still perfectly hear his inflection and voice.
These bits are works of poetry and art. Thank you very much!
He's an excellent speaker. I wish I could borrow his voice for my interview this week. I'd get the job for sure!
You've just written yourself off Peel's Christmas card list by publicising those ferry crossings.
Hey, they had their chance to provide input.
If you're in the area again, you might be interested in the Barton Swing Aqueduct, which carries the Bridgewater Canal across the Manchester Ship Canal. The aqueduct seals off at both ends, and the whole thing - still full of water - swings 90 degrees horizontally around its midpoint so ships can pass on either side. Still completely operational, along with the road swing bridge beside it.
This is a fantastic video, I feel like one of your best!!! Thank you!!
Local here:
1. you pronounced Thelwall right
2. the warburton toll bridge is going to have a price hike to £1
As a local, can confirm the pronunciation of Thelwall is “fell-wall”
Another idiosyncrasy for the video ("th" => "f") 😆
My mother is a former resident and has never pronounced it 'f'. Nor did my great uncle who was the ferryman for many years, or any of my relatives who still live in the area.
I've heard it pronounced fell-wall, but only by people who also pronounce the fourth day of the week fursday
Thelwall is in Warrington and it's pronounced Thelwall
That's just people who never had the F beaten out of them
Low water level translates to “bro I’m hungover just go around” in ferry driver language.
That is so cool! Keeping old quirky stuff keeps history alive :)
Wonderful little videos like this are why I have notifications turned on for Tom Scott. I wish there was a "Tom Scott" for different regions of the United States, to tell us about delightful little interesting places here. Probably 1 person for the west coast, 2 people for the east coast, and 3 people for the Midwest to mountain time zone would be equivalent to what Tom covers. I just get chills learning about all these wonderful little places with history I wouldn't ever have imagined.
This is brilliant. Keep it up Tom
I love all your vids, they are eye openers and brill. Keep going as long as you can please.
Always love your videos, Tom.
For my American friends:
A pence is plural for Penny Sterling in the UK.
1 penny = 1/100 Pound Sterling.
1 Pound Sterling = $1.38 USD
11 pence = $0.15 USD.
The Swinford Toll Bridge, in Eynsham, Oxfordshire charges (pre-Covid anyway) 5p for cars to go over it crossing the river Thames. On bank holidays they allow charities to collect there instead of the toll collectors
And they close at 9pm so some folks would pull-up at a siding at 8:55 and wait so they could go over it for free!
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
Love your videos Tom. Informative and entertaining. When you mentioned the Manchester Ship Canal, I was so hoping you'd include the Barton Swing Aqueduct in the video. What a feat of Victorian engineering, taking the Bridgewater Canal over the Manchester Ship Canal!