So happy I found this! I just started doing MAF training and never even worried about my heart rate before. When my heart rate would shoot up from 133 to 163, I thought maybe I was about to die or doing something seriously wrong...was such a relief to find your videos. Thanks!
Great video Justin! I’m really enjoying the content you are putting out as well as the quality in which you are presenting it making it very easy to understand. I look forward to your next video.
I'm in Florida! I'm started doing HR training about 8 weeks ago using HRR. I've seen some amazing changes and learning quite a bit. I found this video to be very helpful! Thank you so much!
Fantastic content! Keep it up, Justin! Great use of a subscription :) Looking forward to all of your future content. I'm a runner and a decent one at that, but I'm just getting more focused on heart rate training and not having my body think every run is a tempo run.
Really useful video - complete newbie to running. Unlike in my weightlifting hobby that I started in 2003 I can actually get into the right knowledge/form/injury prevention early on - your videos have been great to understand what I'm experiencing as I don't know any other runners!
Researching this topic was on my agenda for today! I've suddenly been hearing about cardiac drift, but wasn't sure exactly what it was/ why it happens. Thanks!
I just wanted to make sure I'm doing my runs correct. My MAF heart rate is 134. I run at a slow pace until It hit 134. Then I will walk until It drop my HR down to 124 and then I start running again. Am I doing it right? Also, does pace matter as long as I'm staying in that 124-134 zone? In other words, does it matter if I'm running a 9min/mile pace and just take more walk breaks or should I run a 13min/mile and take.less walk breaks? Thanks!
I just discovered your page, thanks for the great info. I'm interested in the MAF method. In your opinion can this method be successfully practiced without spending hundreds of dollars on the course offered on their website?
I think most endurance runners notice a cardiac drift somewhere after glycogen depletion at somewhere between 1.75 to 2.25 hours into a run. It is a big factor in "hitting the wall" for marathoners.
I don't doubt it. I have just never run more than 1 hour 35 minutes while measuring my heart rate. Of course there are different mechanisms involved in "hitting the wall" than just cardiac muscle fatigue and dehydration. As you mentioned, glycogen depletion as well as electrolyte depletion can both be significant factors.
Great topic. I am 54 and 6 weeks into MAF (distance runner for 20 years). Finding it challenging to stay under such a low MAF Zone. I make some progress then I am back to more frustrating walk breaks. I also live in southern FL with dew points above 73. So I am hoping to have some breakthroughs when temps go down. I have a max heart rate of 204 so I sometimes wonder if I might be the exception to the MAF formula for my age. Regarding cardiac drift, is there any way to increase stroke volume or is that a constant that does not change?
Stroke volume is what you are primarily improving when you are improving cardiac performance. It's actually the max heart rate that is pretty much invariable and can't be improved. 204 is a very high max heart rate for a 54 year old. Did you get that in an actual lab test? Was it taken with a chest strap in temperate weather? Taking a heart rate during high heat/humidity isn't really a legitimate measure evidently because of blood pooling near the skin surface especially when using just a watch. I can get readings of 210 running in the desert but my real max HR is about 183. As Justin points out this is partly because of dehydration as well, but an artificially high heart rate isn't something you want to use to compare against other athletes or use to set heart rate training zones for example. It's part of why they always specify the temperature and even the fact that a fan is blowing in lab heart rate tests. If that is your actual heart rate then I would be curious what kind of VO2max/stroke volume you would be able to get by moving to a high altitude where your body would have to adapt to less oxygen availability.
I second what Frank said. With aerobic training, you are training the heart muscle to pump a larger volume of blood with each beat. This is why the heart rate goes down as you become more fit. You just don't require as many beats in a minute to produce the same amount of cardiac output. The size of the left ventricle will also grow to allow it to fill with a greater volume. I will do a video at some point about the size of the heart and how it affects things as well. Interesting thoughts on that subject.
@@franklehouillier8865 Thank you for those insights. I have always been a bit embarrassed at my high heart rate when I compared with others in our running group. So much so that I avoided wearing the heart rate monitor for years due to discouragement. I have visited that 204 Max rate a few times over the last couple of years. Intervals, Mile time trial and most recently I bonked and was up at about 196+ at mile 22 of a marathon even though I was doing a marathon shuffle. It just stayed up high all the way to the finish line! But all these readings have been with a wrist monitor. I now have a chest strap for a few weeks and will run some tests to see what type of Max I can produce with hopefully accurate readings. My take away from MAF so far is that I have a completely unused aerobic engine. it has never been taken out of the garage for the last 5 years at least! But I am determined to see this training through.
@@Greg-me8le There isn't any reason to be embarrassed by a high max HR. It also isn't unusual to be at close to max HR at mile 22 during a marathon even if you've slowed down and aren't bonking. This has to do with glycogen depletion as well as electrolyte loss and dehydration. I think I might look at a pace that put you at somewhere closer to 60% of your heart rate reserve rather than MAF for your training. If your resting heart rate is 60. That would be ((210-60) * 0.6) + 60 = 150, which is quite a bit higher than your MAF.
I need help. I'm 67 so my MAF heart rate is 113. I have been running for 9 years so I added 5 beats to that number making it 118. After 12 weeks of MAF I was maintaining the 118 heart rate very well and was seeing better times over various distances while keeping my average heart rate low. I was one run away from my 12 week MAF test when I caught Flu. I was very sick for 5 days and did not run for 10 days. I've been back at it for 2 weeks and am having a very difficult time keeping my heart rate down. In fact, within 30 seconds from the start of my runs my rate spikes to as high as 170. I'm averaging 155 for the first 1/2 mile while running very slow. I end up stopping my timer and discarding the run. After a short walk, I start again but cannot seem to run at a rate below 125. I'm at a lose as to why this is happening. It has ruined my MAF training to the point that the numbers are so faulty it is not even MAF training. Any idea why this is happening? I was making good progress and looked forward to my runs. I see no point in the method now because of this situation.
Nutrition and supplements is a bit outside of my scope of knowledge. It is something I want to be better about learning though. I don't feel comfortable giving a good answer on this.
Cardiac drift can be down to dehydration, fuelling mid run, stress response and gradually running faster without realising it. Run in the morning fasted, start slow and keep it slow, relax, enjoy the process, stop constantly looking at your HR.
Great video Justin. I have been a runner for 5 years and have done max 50k runs but learnt about mag training only now. Can I start MAF Training now? Would my pace go down after this training?
@@AverageRunningPT For a pace of 5:20/km in a 10k my average HR is 169 (Max 180) whereas for slow runs (10k) with pace of 6:30/km the average is152 (Max 164)
After a hard run my recovery run the next day tends to produce an easier effort in controlling my heart rate. I’m not sure what it means. I find it easier to breathe. Almost like it opens up lungs. As more runs I do after the easy recovery run it gets harder for me to keep my heart rate in zone 1and 2. Is this normal?
I run hard on Fridays. Usually 4 miles average 165 bpm with a max 170bmp, With emphasis on speed . Saturday run was an easy 6 mile effort @6 mph avg 122 bpm. The rest of the runs after that 4 mile @ 6 mph every day until my rest day on Thursday. I struggle to keeping those runs under avg 140 bpm. It’s confusing. Any suggestions?
Hi, I live in South India at 12 deg North of the equator, so Cardiac drift is something that I experience on every run. Typical temperatures are North of 90 with humidity at 80 - 90%!. My question is for a MAF HR of say, 127, is it wise to set the HR alert to 125? When the drift steps in, even if one slows to a walk the HR creeps upto 132 before sliding down again. MAF does say that the red line is the red line! You cannot exceed your MAF HR. What are your thoughts on this?
I agree. Keeping at 125 is probably a good idea to give you a little bit of a buffer. Are you new to MAF? I have found that it gets better to control the longer you do MAF as well.
@@AverageRunningPT Yes, into my 7th week of MAF. It has not been easy, but on the +ve side, have got fitter, no injuries and lots of hours on my feet now. I suppose it will take about a couple of months more to see a noticeable difference. The rainy season will be here shortly so will gradually shift to a gym. Does one have to do anything different when running on a treadmill?
Does taking walk breaks even before the heart starts fatiguing, reduce the or delay the cardiac drift? I am a beginner into my first week of maf training and I have turned out to be ridiculously slow.
Dude keep up the great work! Youre doing it in such a way that is very easy to understand by beginners like me.
Thank you for the feedback! I always strive to make these videos as easy to understand as possible.
Great video, exactly the information I was looking for and very clearly explained.
Thank you i will. Start hydrating better to combat this.
Thanks for this highly informative vid. Sure answers a lot of questions and anxieties.
So happy I found this! I just started doing MAF training and never even worried about my heart rate before. When my heart rate would shoot up from 133 to 163, I thought maybe I was about to die or doing something seriously wrong...was such a relief to find your videos. Thanks!
I'm glad they have been helpful for you.
Ok, I subscribed. Great content!
Thanks for coming on-board!
Nice explanation on the topic, really enjoyed your take on it
Pandani Trail Running thank you! I try to make it easy to understand.
Great video Justin! I’m really enjoying the content you are putting out as well as the quality in which you are presenting it making it very easy to understand. I look forward to your next video.
Thank you so much for being a loyal follower! I am very grateful.
Congratulations. Excellent explanation of cardiac drift.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm in Florida! I'm started doing HR training about 8 weeks ago using HRR. I've seen some amazing changes and learning quite a bit. I found this video to be very helpful! Thank you so much!
That is awesome! Florida gets tough in the summer months for sure.
Fantastic content! Keep it up, Justin! Great use of a subscription :) Looking forward to all of your future content. I'm a runner and a decent one at that, but I'm just getting more focused on heart rate training and not having my body think every run is a tempo run.
Palmer Madson thank you for the kind words!
Thanks for sharing this information.
My pleasure
Really useful video - complete newbie to running. Unlike in my weightlifting hobby that I started in 2003 I can actually get into the right knowledge/form/injury prevention early on - your videos have been great to understand what I'm experiencing as I don't know any other runners!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I am glad you are finding value in the channel!
Researching this topic was on my agenda for today! I've suddenly been hearing about cardiac drift, but wasn't sure exactly what it was/ why it happens. Thanks!
I hope it answered your questions well. Let me know if you have any other questions.
I just wanted to make sure I'm doing my runs correct.
My MAF heart rate is 134. I run at a slow pace until It hit 134. Then I will walk until It drop my HR down to 124 and then I start running again.
Am I doing it right?
Also, does pace matter as long as I'm staying in that 124-134 zone? In other words, does it matter if I'm running a 9min/mile pace and just take more walk breaks or should I run a 13min/mile and take.less walk breaks?
Thanks!
Heat also affects the heart. On hot days expect more cardiac drift. And PRs are more likely in cooler temperatures
I just discovered your page, thanks for the great info. I'm interested in the MAF method. In your opinion can this method be successfully practiced without spending hundreds of dollars on the course offered on their website?
Oh thats why I breathe harder at 4pm compared to 6am run. It's hot as ball lately.
You got it!
I think most endurance runners notice a cardiac drift somewhere after glycogen depletion at somewhere between 1.75 to 2.25 hours into a run. It is a big factor in "hitting the wall" for marathoners.
I don't doubt it. I have just never run more than 1 hour 35 minutes while measuring my heart rate. Of course there are different mechanisms involved in "hitting the wall" than just cardiac muscle fatigue and dehydration. As you mentioned, glycogen depletion as well as electrolyte depletion can both be significant factors.
Great topic. I am 54 and 6 weeks into MAF (distance runner for 20 years). Finding it challenging to stay under such a low MAF Zone. I make some progress then I am back to more frustrating walk breaks. I also live in southern FL with dew points above 73. So I am hoping to have some breakthroughs when temps go down. I have a max heart rate of 204 so I sometimes wonder if I might be the exception to the MAF formula for my age. Regarding cardiac drift, is there any way to increase stroke volume or is that a constant that does not change?
Stroke volume is what you are primarily improving when you are improving cardiac performance. It's actually the max heart rate that is pretty much invariable and can't be improved. 204 is a very high max heart rate for a 54 year old. Did you get that in an actual lab test? Was it taken with a chest strap in temperate weather? Taking a heart rate during high heat/humidity isn't really a legitimate measure evidently because of blood pooling near the skin surface especially when using just a watch. I can get readings of 210 running in the desert but my real max HR is about 183. As Justin points out this is partly because of dehydration as well, but an artificially high heart rate isn't something you want to use to compare against other athletes or use to set heart rate training zones for example. It's part of why they always specify the temperature and even the fact that a fan is blowing in lab heart rate tests.
If that is your actual heart rate then I would be curious what kind of VO2max/stroke volume you would be able to get by moving to a high altitude where your body would have to adapt to less oxygen availability.
I second what Frank said. With aerobic training, you are training the heart muscle to pump a larger volume of blood with each beat. This is why the heart rate goes down as you become more fit. You just don't require as many beats in a minute to produce the same amount of cardiac output. The size of the left ventricle will also grow to allow it to fill with a greater volume. I will do a video at some point about the size of the heart and how it affects things as well. Interesting thoughts on that subject.
@@franklehouillier8865 Thank you for those insights. I have always been a bit embarrassed at my high heart rate when I compared with others in our running group. So much so that I avoided wearing the heart rate monitor for years due to discouragement. I have visited that 204 Max rate a few times over the last couple of years. Intervals, Mile time trial and most recently I bonked and was up at about 196+ at mile 22 of a marathon even though I was doing a marathon shuffle. It just stayed up high all the way to the finish line! But all these readings have been with a wrist monitor. I now have a chest strap for a few weeks and will run some tests to see what type of Max I can produce with hopefully accurate readings. My take away from MAF so far is that I have a completely unused aerobic engine. it has never been taken out of the garage for the last 5 years at least! But I am determined to see this training through.
@@Greg-me8le There isn't any reason to be embarrassed by a high max HR. It also isn't unusual to be at close to max HR at mile 22 during a marathon even if you've slowed down and aren't bonking. This has to do with glycogen depletion as well as electrolyte loss and dehydration. I think I might look at a pace that put you at somewhere closer to 60% of your heart rate reserve rather than MAF for your training. If your resting heart rate is 60. That would be ((210-60) * 0.6) + 60 = 150, which is quite a bit higher than your MAF.
On the recovery run the next day after my long run, my HR is much higher and very hard to keep it low.
You and me both!
I do the same thing drinking ~20-24 oz of my electrolyte drink before running up here in TN.
Just makes the run more enjoyable!
I need help. I'm 67 so my MAF heart rate is 113. I have been running for 9 years so I added 5 beats to that number making it 118. After 12 weeks of MAF I was maintaining the 118 heart rate very well and was seeing better times over various distances while keeping my average heart rate low. I was one run away from my 12 week MAF test when I caught Flu. I was very sick for 5 days and did not run for 10 days. I've been back at it for 2 weeks and am having a very difficult time keeping my heart rate down. In fact, within 30 seconds from the start of my runs my rate spikes to as high as 170. I'm averaging 155 for the first 1/2 mile while running very slow. I end up stopping my timer and discarding the run. After a short walk, I start again but cannot seem to run at a rate below 125. I'm at a lose as to why this is happening. It has ruined my MAF training to the point that the numbers are so faulty it is not even MAF training. Any idea why this is happening? I was making good progress and looked forward to my runs. I see no point in the method now because of this situation.
Beautifully explained. Apart from hyderation, is creatine supplement is helpful in controlling cardiac drift.
Nutrition and supplements is a bit outside of my scope of knowledge. It is something I want to be better about learning though. I don't feel comfortable giving a good answer on this.
Long video without addressing the obvious question: should I slow down to stay at target heart rate when heart rate starts drifting
Yeah I call this my “under fitness”
Cardiac drift can be down to dehydration, fuelling mid run, stress response and gradually running faster without realising it. Run in the morning fasted, start slow and keep it slow, relax, enjoy the process, stop constantly looking at your HR.
Great point!
Great video Justin. I have been a runner for 5 years and have done max 50k runs but learnt about mag training only now. Can I start MAF Training now? Would my pace go down after this training?
I don't know. What heart rate are you generally running at now? You might already be doing MAF and not even know it.
@@AverageRunningPT For a pace of 5:20/km in a 10k my average HR is 169 (Max 180) whereas for slow runs (10k) with pace of 6:30/km the average is152 (Max 164)
On 11 mile run right now and experiencing as I type 😂
After a hard run my recovery run the next day tends to produce an easier effort in controlling my heart rate. I’m not sure what it means. I find it easier to breathe. Almost like it opens up lungs. As more runs I do after the easy recovery run it gets harder for me to keep my heart rate in zone 1and 2. Is this normal?
I run hard on Fridays. Usually 4 miles average 165 bpm with a max 170bmp, With emphasis on speed . Saturday run was an easy 6 mile effort @6 mph avg 122 bpm. The rest of the runs after that 4 mile @ 6 mph every day until my rest day on Thursday. I struggle to keeping those runs under avg 140 bpm. It’s confusing. Any suggestions?
I have noticed this too and I have not been able to figure out the physiology behind why
Hi, I live in South India at 12 deg North of the equator, so Cardiac drift is something that I experience on every run. Typical temperatures are North of 90 with humidity at 80 - 90%!. My question is for a MAF HR of say, 127, is it wise to set the HR alert to 125? When the drift steps in, even if one slows to a walk the HR creeps upto 132 before sliding down again. MAF does say that the red line is the red line! You cannot exceed your MAF HR. What are your thoughts on this?
I agree. Keeping at 125 is probably a good idea to give you a little bit of a buffer. Are you new to MAF? I have found that it gets better to control the longer you do MAF as well.
@@AverageRunningPT Yes, into my 7th week of MAF. It has not been easy, but on the +ve side, have got fitter, no injuries and lots of hours on my feet now. I suppose it will take about a couple of months more to see a noticeable difference. The rainy season will be here shortly so will gradually shift to a gym. Does one have to do anything different when running on a treadmill?
Does taking walk breaks even before the heart starts fatiguing, reduce the or delay the cardiac drift?
I am a beginner into my first week of maf training and I have turned out to be ridiculously slow.
SsK any time you walk will delay the increased heart rate.
hold on is 10min/mile not pace and increase in heart rate not increase in intensity
thanks