Love 4e, the modules they had were awesome with the maps and tokens. The paragon paths and epic destinies added so much flavor. And all the classes were so sick. My first character in d&d and 4e was an Avenger hybrid classed with a two bladed ranger and I’ve never had a character as awesome in any other edition
Good call. I never liked 4th edition (hardly looked at 5th) but this was a well reasoned decision. Play what you and your friends like. I do recommend looking at some of the other RPG's if only to scavenge things that you like from them.
@Lee-vk1xy my favorites that I like to run are RuneQuest 2nd ed. and MechWarrior (RPG). As a player I love AD&D 1st edition! I do want to try some of the new stuff that is out now.
@@ShaunHall-i7e I only played it a couple of times but like RuneQuest. MechWarrior was never very realistic but I thought all the related games I played were a lot of fun. I am looking forward to Broken Empires. It has a number of interesting concepts so I got in on the kickstarter.
Why not stick with 5e, 2014? I sure plan to, my books are not worn out and I have a pencil and lots of paper. More people are still playing 1st Ed than 4th.
It may have been or may be a good game but to me it just never felt like D&D. I switched to Pathfinder and have been very happy with it. 5th actually looked more like D&D to me than 4th but 3/3.5 or Pathfinder just suited me better. Also preferred the business model to that of Hasbro/WOTC.
I’m gen x too, played every edition. The one big flaw of 4th was that everything had too many hit points and big combats dragged because of this. If I ever ran 4th again (glad I kept all my 4th books - I still own most of what they sold), I’d halve all the pc and monster hp. 4th was definitely the best edition for balanced, interesting tactical, grid combat. As I have thousands of painted miniatures and lots of dwarven forge, I really liked this edition.
Generally I hear the main issues with Encounter length came from: * Poor Encounter design (using higher level enemies instead of more equal level ones; over use of Soldiers and Brutes) * Poor CharOp (high damage is based off stacking static damage bonuses and doing more attack rolls {AOEs and Multi-hits}; Not hitting enough {+2 Weapon proficiency is *massively* worse than +3}; not using their Encounter or Daily powers early in a fight) * And people not utilizing off-turn thinking as much as they could
Fellow X'er and I liked 4e the best too. It had the HP bloat flaw and Skill Challenges were a good idea poorly implemented. My favourite thing about it was that it ended the linear fighter/quadratic wizard issue that plagued the game from the beginning, which also invalidated the rogue class in the bargain. Minions were another great idea. Such a good edition - I started in BECMI. I play ACKS 2 now though.
@Lunarvandross a straight halving is probably a wonky fix, but close to a solution Its probably better to subtract 2 to 4 HP per level on a monster or somthing; but PCs usually have a good amount of health both for risk of getting downed, while not just getting insta-killed from a single Round of bad luck
The DM experience was so much better in 4E than in 3.5 I could never go back. I wish they had kept some of that, like treasure parcels, plug-and-play monsters, and skill challenges (although I never felt like they explained it adequately in the books) because they make the hardest job a bit easier. I also wish we had ever gotten a Baldur's Gate style videogame that translated the gameplay into a tactical videogame and automated all the attacks on different stats and chaining effects to make the very slow combat faster.
My favourite part of the whining about 4e is the people saying it felt like a video game and was made just to sell a video game, but that's the ONLY edition that DIDN'T get a tie in video game, or game using the rulesets. Almost like it's actually all the OTHER editions that feel like video games and made for video games.....
And many of these reasons why I still play GURPS. Rules have been stable for over 20 years and the Steve Jackson company still prints it. Everyone has their favorite:)
@@simonacerton3478 Since the 80's here, right next to BECMI D&D when it was still in print. Occasionally I also pull out the old Rules Cyclopedia and run a game. They were fun then and they are still fun :) Back when I last played AD&D Darksun, there was a genuine feeling of risk whene you went into combat. I don't get that feeling with modern 5th edition D&D, it feels more like superfriends. To bad it is so difficult to get people to try an older edition when starting out. I use 5E to attact players then after a bit, do some one shots with another system to get them to warm up to the idea.
@@ThunderSqueak I got my younger (20's) group to try BX. They liked it better than 5E but it turns out they didn't like D&D very much and the group died after the pandemic. I did learn it can be done
I've been talking my friends (a bunch of 5e heads) into trying the heroic tier. They've been warming up to the idea. I don't blame you one bit. I've been wanting to revisit 4e for some time now. I played 5e and got bored with the combat. 4e hit my strategic mind just right to keep me deeply invested despite the time that combat would sometimes take.
So glad this video showed up in my feed, this is awesome! 4e is my absolute favorite edition, and a year ago I returned to it myself. 💜 Imo the game does so much for DMs (especially when compared with 5e) and helped me become a more confident DM. I'm sad the campaign fell apart because our fighter joined a punk band and our bard had to start taking up bartending shifts. I'm with you that the character roles are amazing, and as a wargamer the combat really clicks with me. I'll be trying Pathfinder 2e Remaster next, but won't be giving up on trying to find something with 4e again! Wildemount from 5e is my favorite ever D&D setting, so I've used it in 4e and had a great time with it.
I ran dnd 4e with one big change: attacks automatically hit against bloodied enemies. I personally think it solves encounter pacing in the game. It highly incentivizes saving big powers to target bloodied enemies since there is no chance to miss. So combats are no longer everyone dumping encounter powers and then using at wills to slowly finish a fight. Instead, the opening is slower and more probing with at wills and then once a target gets bloodied the fireworks start and the encounter ends soon afterwards. Its a much better combat pacing imo
4e is my favorite edition 😊 I’ve been playing (but mostly DMing) since launch and have run multiple games from 1-30 I love how variable the combat feels, how many tactical options you have, how much fun it is to build a character to a specific need and have it be effective Contrary to popular conversation, there where a truly MASSIVE number of options available to players and for character designs, and you could make drastically different characters even with the same class
4e's variability in builds is my absolute favorite aspect of it, hybrid classing was inspired (I'm to the point where I'll gladly take a drop in power for the sake of flavor), and dropping multiclassing on top of it can make some very interesting characters. With just a little homebrew you can have some really powerful builds, too. Had a vampire assassin critting for 400 damage at level 27 in my group.
I loved churning out PCs using 4e. Unlike 5e, you don't have to wait multiple levels to have the Character Concept come online, you can have it all at Lv1!
I liked a lot about 4E- in particular the monster stats/powers, and the streamlined skills as compared to 3E. On the other hand, combat could become a grind very quickly with all the interactive powers you had to keep track of. A 5 minute battle in BECMI can easily be a 30 minute battle in 4E.
there are two main ways to make ttrpg combat good: make it so simplistic that you do not notice any shift from the actual roleplaying, or make the combat actually interesting. i prefer the first option, but more hardcore people may prefer the second.
Ive tried Ironsworn for solo play. Ive enjoyed its "oracle" idea, which I assume predates Ironsworn for "no DM" play. Ive taken that oracle idea into my DMing for players, as a help for improv prompts.
4e was my first DnD experience, and I have a soft spot for it. It doesn’t look like DnD in any traditional sense, but it captures the feeling of epic heroes more so than 5e imo, they made martial classes on par with spell casters. You mentioned using a VTT with 4e, is a great way to experience 4e because it was designed with a computer in mind, the tech wasn’t there yet as it is now. The modules are very cool. I also really love the Ebberon campaign setting. Also it’s the last edition to have Dark Sun as a campaign setting, which I regret not buying at the time. I might run a 4e mini campaign with my group for the nostalgia factor.
Never played 4e, but I don't intend to play 5.5e. I'm currently on a quest to learn as many other systems as I can including Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, Achtung! Cthulhu, Star Trek Adventures, G.I. Joe, W40K Wrath & Glory, Pathfinder, etc... Happy to branch out from D&D, and fortunately, my players are willing to try new things with me.
@@charleshartley9597 It's alot of fun. You can graba base set for pretty cheap, it's technically 7th edition, though it's easy to spot in the lime green box. The collectible card aspect it had going for mutations and loot isn't a handicap because you can buy the full set of all the cards on Drive Thru RPG print on demand for 20 bucks or so.
I've always heard 4e was perfectly balanced but people hate it and now get your channel suggested, I'm going to deep dive and figure out what's going on. Very interested in your perspective
Every class works on the same "spell" system called Powers, which are like "moves" that you can either use at will, recharge on a short rest, or recharge on a long rest. I've played 4e for like a decade, and while it has a special place in my heart, I think I still prefer 5e; 4e requires a lot of homebrew to make it much more than a dungeon crawling ARPG. Imo they should have made it a whole new system, because frankly it doesn't play much like DnD does, but more like I understand a system like Icon to play.
Played 4e for 130 consecutive weeks and have to say I hated the balance of it. It's why I also don't like Pathfinder 2.x. it really stifles creative processes as player always search their "boxes" for solutions. Nope no utility power, guess I can't help. Uggh So happy it died.
Part of it is that 3.x was so badly balanced that 4e might as well have been perfectly balanced in comparison. The biggest problem it had was more about player expectations than what it was when considered in isolation. I've been playing RPGs for 45 years, and in that time I've found that different games "scratch different itches." Each rules system carries with it an implied setting that not only indicates the world but also the kind of characters it supports. Fourth Edition changed so many things that for many of us it no longer felt like it scratched the same itch as previous editions of D&D. It felt like a different game, but that didn't work for people who just wanted a better version of the previous game.
I was dragged kicking and screaming into 4e back in the time, but fell in love with the mechanics.... I'd love to find a group to play 4e with. also, if anybody knows a legal way to get the complete computer character builder, I'd be most grateful.
My love of 4e is somewhat at a distance I've never played 4e proper but I've spent an immense amount of time on the systems that 4e helped inspire, like Lancer and Icon, so I have a strong appreciation for its design principles
I started with D&D 2e and played all the editions after. I liked 4E as it has some cool mechanics, especially with tanks making ways to punish monsters for not attacking tank. I think this was cause I played with a few DMs who love to ignore fighters or other front liners and rush the casters in back row. Ultimately though after coming from the options of 3.5 it just felt too limiting on characters so while I liked 4E combat it started to feel a bit too much like the click miniatures games. When D&D 5e came out and said it would be a return to that customization, but really 5e feels real restricted as pick subclass for class and pretty much the same for anyone playing that class. I know they have added some optional rules to increase customization but characters still feel the same and ironically I felt more variety in 4E due to powers selection. I didn't play Pathfinder 1 because when 4E came out our group wanted to go with the new D&D. And our group actually liked it though I did understand it's drastic changes not appealing to all. However once again when the new D&D came out in 5E our group wanted to stick with what's new. However due to WoTC actions in recent years with the OGL and many other issue I and several in our group moved over the Pathfinder 2E and love it. Combat rules are nice and tight to the point that you rarely have to worry about pick being sub-optimal as in combat tactics matter more, vast amount of customization to the point two people in the same class can be built so differently they don't even feel like the same class since customization help how mechanically your character plays more than being about stats. Tons of down time and other such rules for that at first might seem overwhelming but in the end are nice to have because you don' t need to know them off hand but if someone ask "Can I do this?" there is probably a rule for that. Which saves the headache of having to think up house rules on the fly then remember them so things are consistent. While it has been years since I played 4E and I did enjoy my time with it I don't think I could go back to it. Nor could I stay with 5E as even before WoTC morally questionable behavior it didn't draw me in like previous editions had. After sinking into PF2e I don't really wanna back to any Edition of D&D. 3.5 was my favorite due to customization but also was very fast and loose with rules to the point you could make insainly broken characters if you know how. 4E had a nice flatten of the power curve but that tightness and other changes felt to confining. Where as 5E feels kinda like 3e if someone removed all the customization and forced you to play base classes. PF2e just checks so many boxes for me that it feels like what D&D should have become as it actually simplifies a lot of things, like 3 action economy vs the multiple action types D&D still ues which let classes with bonus actions feel like they get more per turn. Having customization without it getting all crazy like 3.5 as well as balancing it so not overly worried about bad picks in character creation. And so on. You mention having played PF1 in the video but didn't hear anything about PF2e. No community is as large as D&D 5e currently but I suspect PF2e is probably larger than Dnd4E. And might want to check it out if you haven't already. Unlike WoTC they actually care about fans and complete PF2e rules are available online.
Played Basic and AD&D back in the day. 4 different DM’s, different groups and states. Dabbled as a guest player in other additions over the years. AD&D is absolutely magical if you have the right group of people and a creative expressive DM.
One of the best recommendations that TH-cam made, i back to 3.5 and i happy with my choice (I like de 4e too), for nostalgia 3.5 are my favorite system and i gonna stay with this edition now from on.
Absolutely agree. If people are going to use VTTs , 4e is probably the go to. It’s got to be an amazing experience if you’re a 3d printing fanatic as well.
I have collected DCC and MCC for the last few years. I love everything about it, especially the art. In the last few years I have successfully gotten a few friends to play rhrough one funnel. They loved it and we never played again. lol
4E is definitely on my list to pitch the next time I'm up to run in my group. Not sure if it's going to win out, either among my friends or just as the thing *I* will wind up wanting to run compared to 5.5 or Draw Steel when it's available, but it's definitely on my radar as something I have nostalgia for, perhaps rose-tinted nostalgia, but nostalgia nonetheless.
I grew up playing 2nd edition. I got excited when I read about 5th ed, and not long ago I finally started a campaign with my daughter and niece. I’m enjoying it, but I’m really missing 2nd ed now. I think I’m going to talk with them about switching versions and importing some of the rules and features we enjoyed from 5th.
@ 2e is a bit more video-game-Raquel in the way it handles classes and actions. It doesn’t do this to the extent 4th did, but it’s definitely there. While this is fun, it can make the game feel boxed in, like a very elaborate board game instead of a storytelling sandbox. I also like that 2nd dives into skills in a way that is more storytelling focused. 2nd also fits better for low fantasy games. It’s a lot of little things that add up to something very different.
AD&D 2nd edition was my favorite by far. I agree with Robert in that there are a lot of small differences that add up to a much different feel. I like that classes have different amounts of xp required for level advancement. I like the magic item charge system more. I loved that each class had a Handbook of its own. I could just go on and on.... I like that it was dangerous!!!!
@ yeah, I think 5th added a lot of cool ideas, and I want to back port some of them, but to a large extent I want to go back and dust off my old books. I felt like we were making more interesting stories when I used that system.
I used to DM 3.0 and later tacked on Miniatures Handbook rules for my tactical craving, and 4e definitely worked for my style right out of the box. I played bard and um... spellblade? in 4e. I can say it's the ONLY DnD that I've had where action economy worked for everyone every turn and didn't need clarification and rulings and arguments. I'm for the same reason hoping to play some pathfinder 2e... At least before it gets power crept and house ruled to the huge multidocument messes Pathfinder 1e games I've joined have been.
4e gets a bad reputation that it doesn't deserve. There's a fair bit in 5e rules that is taken from or inspired by 4e; Hit Dice and Healing Surges are essentially the same thing for example. 4e does lack in the support for the roleplaying side of things, not a lot of powers work outside of combat, but it is great for tactical table top combat. For anyone looking to try it out, get your hands on the 4e DMG and the PHB make some first level characters and run the dungeon 'Kobold Hall' in the back of the DMG. It's a great little dungeon.
My players in 4e always are using the combat powers outside of combat, you just gotta be willing to adjudicate flexibly. Using cold damage to freeze a liquid solid or using fire damage ti melt something is reasonable. Using blugeoning damage to break down a wall or using a movement ability to parkour through something all seems very reasonable. Given how encounter powers recharge every 5 minutes, and given how many extra effects get tied to various abilities, players are constantly finding ways ti be creative with their combat powers outside of combat and I actually think it creates much better roleplaying and creative problem solving than the tools that dnd 5e gives the players.
They've somewhat realized they need something with the Barbarian's Brutal Strike, Fighters with their Tactical abilities and Weapon Masteries, and Rogue's Cunning Strikes.
The lore I have heard from 4e is pretty good. I don't like some of the rewrites, but really like a lot of the new stuff and the clarifications. May have to give it a look. You have convinced me to give it a shot.
Heck yeah, 4E was really fun and cool. I was so into it, and I loved their take on classes like the Shaman and Warlord. I hope you have a great time with it!
This is interesting to me. I started on 2nd edition AD&D back in the early 90s. I was "AFK" until the 5th edition came out. For me, it's about rules light like Cairn and knave, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning more about stuff I don't know, so I appreciate you sharing this!
Started w basic in 87 and 4E is probably my favorite edition. I was telling friends the other night that if instead of all the stacking conditions that were such a PITA to track, we used advantage/disadvantage from 5E, I bet the game would flow a lot better
I started on 4E, and I was so shocked how much people hated on it. I played 5E but eventually I was pushed more towards narrative games like Blades in the Dark, because I found playing and running 5E combat so boring and it made sense to eliminate it in favor of leaning more into roleplaying. I miss the crunchy tactical combat of 4E with decisions to make each turn. You might also want to check out Lancer if you like mechs, it seems like 4E's combat design ethos but a little more crunchy
I play The Fantasy Trip cause I play solo and it has the appropiate modules both new and old. It also looks and plays like a boardgame (wargame?) and that got a couple folks to play it with me, occasionally my partner joins too. I think D6D 4th might be the next step for me but looks daunting.
Old school d&d is based on probability. What you might call subsystems is just the game trying to simulate your odds at certain types of actions. Example, reaction rolls are on a bell curve to simulate that its ordinary for people to have neutral responses, and unusual for people to have extreme responses. 1d6 search checks are significantly improved by a +1, unlike d20 saves or attacks (16.6% vs 5% per +1). Its literally changes the value of a +1 based on context. I think thats cool.
4th has always been my favorite edition as well. The powers lend themselves to such creative descriptions of how they look and what happens as the rules are clear so fluffy descriptions can flow out. I think it was the tools were clear and worked and it is how you use those tools to tell a great story.
My group recently dropped Pathfinder 2E to go back to DnD 4E and despite some initial hesitancy the whole group is loving it. It's such a breath of fresh air and the tactical combat is IMO second to none
4e is the most comprehensive and internally consistent rule set of any edition of D&D. It’s fun. And the best kobolds of any edition. Monsters do what they do. And, the monster stat blocks have everything you need in one place
So I'll do you one better as far as "contrarian" mindset goes... I love the 4e Essentials line. I think they're some of the best products in the franchise and the smaller form-factor books are just glorious.
Also GenX here, played since AD&D, played 3.x in graduate school, then skipped 4th later in grad school. Question for the 4e hivemind here: I'm intrigued by this version and have moved to PF2 or Advanced 5th Edition (aka "LevelUp"), but I've heard good stuff about 4th that I missed. What resources are available for playing in Foundry? Actually, I should scour the comments here more but wanted to ask specifically. Also, sorry for a bit of necro in the video! Cheers!
Out of all the TTRPGs I hardly play D&D any more and if I do I still only play 2nd Ed. AD&D. Mostly because it is what I grew up on and I have a lot of books and all the PDFs for it. I say play what you love but everyone should branch out and try different TTRPGs.
Cool, man! Play what works for you. I tried 4E as a player, I never tried to DM it. It was OK for me, but not my favorite. But if you get more out of it than I do, wonderful!
Good tip to anyone doing 4e that i have a lot of success with... take a level 20 plus monster but stat them to be your parties level. Thry can do some crazy stuff thats fun as heck. Might not be balanced but have one of these with a couple normal monsters for that level plusna few minions, is fun as heck
I enjoyed 4e. I learned to GM with the system. I do understand the MMO criticisms and the repetitive nature of the various classes after a while. But the skill challenges? Not having to wait ten minutes as people flip through their spells EVERY turn? The ease of CR and encounter building? My god I loved 4e.
I ran 4e from the playtest until a year after 5e came out, and have played since 78 . 4e was a great game. Its not D&D, but it's a great fantasy RPG; based on world of warcraft video game with themes from earlier editions of D&D. It had four innovations of note - "advantage", "character role", "conditions", and "play phase". The main down side of it was the math is broken - and the designers became aware of it, and corrected it starting with the publication of Monster Manual III, and then in the Essentials series. If I were to run it now, I would use the Essentials books for the players, as the math is corrected in them. The other thing that was broken in 4e was the "flat" characters - they are all the same, regardless of what class or race you pick, or power, or spell - strip away the name and trappings - its xd6 damage, etc.. No mechanical diversity.
My entry into dnd was AD&D2E and it and 4e are my 2 favorites. 3.5 got gamed way too hard to the point every single game i played was an arms race to find a way to play the most ridiculously broken stuff you could, at least at my table. 4e came out and the balance side was a huge thing i enjoyed. Sure there were optimal ways to play technically most of them werent significantly better or worse to such a degree you were effectively multiple levels ahead of your fellow players. 4e was a ton of fun and I recommend it to most people
4th edition was incredibly underrated and I am sad that they ruined the whole thing by switching to essentials which was a half measure that satisfied nobody, and then pull the plug on all future projects 5 years in.
4th edition nerfed magic-users, giving them more durability, but taking away their ability to summon 200 minions at level 19. The min-maxers hated getting nerfed, and were especially vocal about their disgust towards the system. As a DM I enjoyed not having to babysit the party for two levels until they became decent heroes.
Big advocate for 4e. Been running it for the last 3-4 years, switching from 5e. Love it. Just made a switch to AD&D 2e. Debating on whether I want to stay with that.
Honestly, 4e had various great ideas. l played it for 2 years and had several players who also enjoyed the game. I did use various aspects from previous additions and gave it my own personal twist. So, I didn't play RAW but still had fun.😊
When my kids are old enough and have enough free time, we're going to play AD&D 2e. Even though I only ever played 3.5 back in the day, there's something earthier and just... lovely about 2e.
Have you taken a look at some of the other DCC settings and spin off games? Umerica is my favorite right now but MCC, x crawl , weird West and so many more are just so good.
I've been playing since 1979, and I was never able to warm up to 4e. Having said that, it sounds like the best version for what you want to do. Have fun with it.
I initially didn’t like 4e. I think it was too different and seemed too gamey. But as the years have passed and I’ve reread many of the books, I do think it was a pretty good system. And as you brought up, having a complete, balanced system is really appealing. The minion rules are great. I carry them into other systems. I would really like to go back and give it a try if I could find a group willing to play it.
If you ever need to run 5e, I updated Keep on the Shadowfell and The Slaying Stone to 5e on the DM's Guild. If you ever need to play 5e as a player, I made Player's Guide to Powers, which is a nearly one-to-one conversion of the 4e Player's Handbook classes to 5e versions and it is also on the DM's Guild.
I've never played 4e, looked but never played, and i find so many of these sentiments true for pathfinder 2e. I love the modularity and fairness of it all, it's my goto "game to play with other internet strangers" game
When people said that they hated powers because it made the Fighter and Wizard too similar, I think if how 5e 2014 and 2024 editions both have made spells so OP that playing a martial class is basically not viable. I have never played 4e but this video has made me now want to really play it
I liked 4e for the combat. From memory it wasn't so hot outside of that. There's some good parts you can read through and lift for your games which I would recommend for every edition.
While I totally wouldn't be moving to 4e myself, I totally understand the reasons for doing so and encourage everyone (especially DMs) to look at the game systems we choose to run and if those games are deserving of our time. Personally, I have started to run Pathfinder 2e in place of my D&D 5e games. Though I would love to try out some Fabula Ultima down the line too. :)
DnD 4e is the most well balanced and user friendly (especially as a DM) version that I have played and is still my preferred tabletop RPG. The rules and balance are so good and make sense which allows the rules to actually get out of the way for MORE roleplaying in my experience. and the combat cant be matched.
my group quite like 4th Edition the only thing we found was combat just drag on a bit too much at the higher levels, as though I have been wanting to go back to it to play a isekai campaign
I really enjoyed 4e but couldn't get anyone to play it with me back when it was fresh. On the flip side, I got a good chunk of my friends to play Gamma World 7e that was based on the same 4e framework. Some of my fondest ttrpg memories.
I played 4E pickups at a LGS every week in college (was it called the adventure league?) and enjoyed committing to a 60-90 session with as few strings attached as possible. Then my buddy ran a 4E Gamma World campaign for 2 years where we played every week. I will never give up my 4E collection, even if I never get to play it again. People who rag on it can rarely come up with a reason its "not good" that isnt perfectly paralleled in 3E or 5E. Its just a meme to hate 4E. As a huge fan of Final Fantasy Tactics series, 4E is very satisfying combat for me, but I would rather play it as a video game. That being said, after hundreds of sessions of 4E and 5E, I just think the combat takes up too much time and doesn't keep focus for players. This is why I switched to OSR - Cairn and Old School Essentials specifically. I ran the sessions with solid emphasis on resources, exploration, and problem solving. Combat is quick and resolved usually within 3 rounds or less and it is always tight and brutal. Play what you love and best of luck!
I've been considering this as well, and for the exact same reasons. I even like what we've seen from 5.5 so far. But the "pay forever" model isn't really something I want to deal with. My big challenge is getting the tables I DM at to be interested as well.
Ever since I watched some people play 4e, I've wanted to try it. something about the at wills and war game aspects of it just make sense to me. the only thing I wasn't super keen on from that one game I saw was all the different duration effects you can apply and then have to keep track of. even just a few in 5e always trip me up and I forget to tick them down then lose track, so that's the only big issue I think I'd have with 4e, but I still think it'd be right up my ally otherwise
4e monsters were amazing. I have a lot of great memories of playing a ranger too. It's a lot harder to get into though. So many tables and the magic items were so freaking generic.
I started all the way back, with the three little booklets (and Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, Chainmail). Within a coiuple years, I moved on to Traveller, Melee/Wizards (primordial GURPS), and other games. My group didn't come back to the DnD brand (a little dabbling in 3x, and I ran a great campaign in Star Wars Saga Edition, which had heavy cross-pollination with 4e) until 4e - and it hit us perfectly, most of us are old wargamers, so minis-grid-tactical rocked. None of us are tempted to buy 5e, let alone 5.5/6.0/One/whatever. And omygoodness, the concept and structure or skill challenges is a marvelous tool! Very poorly developed/explained in the official publications, but it's a method I use in nearly every game I run.
@@dac314 you are 100% correct. All 4e did was codify the role that already de facto in existence. The holy trinity existed in rpg's long before MMOs came along.
I'm considering going back to 4E after getting bored and annoyed with 5E (also because WotC was getting obnoxious, but that's another story...). I've had way more fun with 4E than any other edition of the game and had happier memories as a result. How this came about was because I originally considered using the Fantasy Age system for my sword and sorcery rpgs, but although it is a good system, I felt I needed more. Part of me wanted to go back to D&D because I still had a soft spot for it, but no way was I EVER going back to 5E, especially with the new players handbook release. So I thought to myself: "Of all the editions I played, which one would I prefer to DM?". After much thought, I found that 4E was the one. It was important to make this decision because there are too many D&D clones (Dungeon Crawl Classics, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Castles and Crusades, etc). With so many choices, it would be a waste of my time and effort to go through them all just to find the D&D game of my dreams. So it made sense to use the one edition that I have used before, had the most fun with and use it as my personal base system.
I got the chance to play 4e a few months back and while I enjoyed it, I found that the changes that Lancer and Pathfinder 2e have made to streamline the action economy even further into either a 3 action system or one that does 2 actions with a 3rd at a cost have made the gameplay a lot more interesting and tactically flexible. So while I loved 4e, I don't think I'll ever run it for my group because more modern systems improved upon the foundations too much.
Love 4e, the modules they had were awesome with the maps and tokens. The paragon paths and epic destinies added so much flavor. And all the classes were so sick.
My first character in d&d and 4e was an Avenger hybrid classed with a two bladed ranger and I’ve never had a character as awesome in any other edition
ill play 4e with you and weirdos from the net if you are still up for it. Loved 4e for the short time I got to play it
in D&D 4e my favorite player character was an elf avenger of Sehanine, wielding a huge and exotic axe
Started a 4E campaign this year. It works for me for a more Dark Souls inspired setting and the players have been enjoying it.
I started playing back in 79. Play what you love.
Good call. I never liked 4th edition (hardly looked at 5th) but this was a well reasoned decision. Play what you and your friends like. I do recommend looking at some of the other RPG's if only to scavenge things that you like from them.
@Lee-vk1xy my favorites that I like to run are RuneQuest 2nd ed. and MechWarrior (RPG). As a player I love AD&D 1st edition! I do want to try some of the new stuff that is out now.
@@ShaunHall-i7e I only played it a couple of times but like RuneQuest. MechWarrior was never very realistic but I thought all the related games I played were a lot of fun. I am looking forward to Broken Empires. It has a number of interesting concepts so I got in on the kickstarter.
@Lee-vk1xy I'll check out Broken Empires. 😀
Why not stick with 5e, 2014?
I sure plan to, my books are not worn out and I have a pencil and lots of paper.
More people are still playing 1st Ed than 4th.
4e is totally underrated
Compared to 5th, yes.
It may have been or may be a good game but to me it just never felt like D&D. I switched to Pathfinder and have been very happy with it. 5th actually looked more like D&D to me than 4th but 3/3.5 or Pathfinder just suited me better. Also preferred the business model to that of Hasbro/WOTC.
No its not..
Half the stuff people love about Pathfinder 2e came from 4th edition. So its only sin is that it came out 10 years too early.
@@memyhealthandi6470 Haven't really looked at Pathfinder 2e yet. At least closely but what I have seen lacks the features of 4e that I disliked.
I’m gen x too, played every edition. The one big flaw of 4th was that everything had too many hit points and big combats dragged because of this. If I ever ran 4th again (glad I kept all my 4th books - I still own most of what they sold), I’d halve all the pc and monster hp. 4th was definitely the best edition for balanced, interesting tactical, grid combat. As I have thousands of painted miniatures and lots of dwarven forge, I really liked this edition.
From what I’ve heard, PHB3 fixed a lot of the math in that regard. Granted, I haven’t run any paragon/epic monsters yet, so I don’t know.
Generally I hear the main issues with Encounter length came from:
* Poor Encounter design (using higher level enemies instead of more equal level ones; over use of Soldiers and Brutes)
* Poor CharOp (high damage is based off stacking static damage bonuses and doing more attack rolls {AOEs and Multi-hits}; Not hitting enough {+2 Weapon proficiency is *massively* worse than +3}; not using their Encounter or Daily powers early in a fight)
* And people not utilizing off-turn thinking as much as they could
Fellow X'er and I liked 4e the best too. It had the HP bloat flaw and Skill Challenges were a good idea poorly implemented. My favourite thing about it was that it ended the linear fighter/quadratic wizard issue that plagued the game from the beginning, which also invalidated the rogue class in the bargain. Minions were another great idea. Such a good edition - I started in BECMI. I play ACKS 2 now though.
Duuude, did/does 1/2ing the hit points of monsters and pc’s do it?? Let me know!! :O
@Lunarvandross a straight halving is probably a wonky fix, but close to a solution
Its probably better to subtract 2 to 4 HP per level on a monster or somthing; but PCs usually have a good amount of health both for risk of getting downed, while not just getting insta-killed from a single Round of bad luck
The DM experience was so much better in 4E than in 3.5 I could never go back. I wish they had kept some of that, like treasure parcels, plug-and-play monsters, and skill challenges (although I never felt like they explained it adequately in the books) because they make the hardest job a bit easier.
I also wish we had ever gotten a Baldur's Gate style videogame that translated the gameplay into a tactical videogame and automated all the attacks on different stats and chaining effects to make the very slow combat faster.
4e is the edition that is most fun to run.
Pathfinder 2e is a pretty natural successor to 4e and has a lot of those things you're asking for.
My favourite part of the whining about 4e is the people saying it felt like a video game and was made just to sell a video game, but that's the ONLY edition that DIDN'T get a tie in video game, or game using the rulesets. Almost like it's actually all the OTHER editions that feel like video games and made for video games.....
And many of these reasons why I still play GURPS. Rules have been stable for over 20 years and the Steve Jackson company still prints it. Everyone has their favorite:)
Good call. I've played GURPS since it was Man to Man and its still awesome.
@@simonacerton3478 Since the 80's here, right next to BECMI D&D when it was still in print. Occasionally I also pull out the old Rules Cyclopedia and run a game. They were fun then and they are still fun :) Back when I last played AD&D Darksun, there was a genuine feeling of risk whene you went into combat. I don't get that feeling with modern 5th edition D&D, it feels more like superfriends. To bad it is so difficult to get people to try an older edition when starting out. I use 5E to attact players then after a bit, do some one shots with another system to get them to warm up to the idea.
@@ThunderSqueak I got my younger (20's) group to try BX. They liked it better than 5E but it turns out they didn't like D&D very much and the group died after the pandemic. I did learn it can be done
i feel your pain all anyone wants to play is 5e ive been wanting to play cthulhu forever....
CoC was really great for crime based games. We used to use it with the 90s add on to have Payday/Heat style crime stories.
For what it’s worth that was how it was in 3rd and 4th too.
I've been talking my friends (a bunch of 5e heads) into trying the heroic tier. They've been warming up to the idea.
I don't blame you one bit. I've been wanting to revisit 4e for some time now. I played 5e and got bored with the combat. 4e hit my strategic mind just right to keep me deeply invested despite the time that combat would sometimes take.
So glad this video showed up in my feed, this is awesome! 4e is my absolute favorite edition, and a year ago I returned to it myself. 💜 Imo the game does so much for DMs (especially when compared with 5e) and helped me become a more confident DM. I'm sad the campaign fell apart because our fighter joined a punk band and our bard had to start taking up bartending shifts.
I'm with you that the character roles are amazing, and as a wargamer the combat really clicks with me. I'll be trying Pathfinder 2e Remaster next, but won't be giving up on trying to find something with 4e again! Wildemount from 5e is my favorite ever D&D setting, so I've used it in 4e and had a great time with it.
I ran dnd 4e with one big change: attacks automatically hit against bloodied enemies. I personally think it solves encounter pacing in the game. It highly incentivizes saving big powers to target bloodied enemies since there is no chance to miss. So combats are no longer everyone dumping encounter powers and then using at wills to slowly finish a fight. Instead, the opening is slower and more probing with at wills and then once a target gets bloodied the fireworks start and the encounter ends soon afterwards. Its a much better combat pacing imo
That's a really good idea. I'm gonna use that. I get so tired of the grind when you have just a few low level creatures to wipe up.
4e is my favorite edition 😊
I’ve been playing (but mostly DMing) since launch and have run multiple games from 1-30
I love how variable the combat feels, how many tactical options you have, how much fun it is to build a character to a specific need and have it be effective
Contrary to popular conversation, there where a truly MASSIVE number of options available to players and for character designs, and you could make drastically different characters even with the same class
4e's variability in builds is my absolute favorite aspect of it, hybrid classing was inspired (I'm to the point where I'll gladly take a drop in power for the sake of flavor), and dropping multiclassing on top of it can make some very interesting characters. With just a little homebrew you can have some really powerful builds, too. Had a vampire assassin critting for 400 damage at level 27 in my group.
I loved churning out PCs using 4e.
Unlike 5e, you don't have to wait multiple levels to have the Character Concept come online, you can have it all at Lv1!
@@dudeatos gods, I miss that
I liked a lot about 4E- in particular the monster stats/powers, and the streamlined skills as compared to 3E. On the other hand, combat could become a grind very quickly with all the interactive powers you had to keep track of. A 5 minute battle in BECMI can easily be a 30 minute battle in 4E.
there are two main ways to make ttrpg combat good: make it so simplistic that you do not notice any shift from the actual roleplaying, or make the combat actually interesting. i prefer the first option, but more hardcore people may prefer the second.
Yeah I hate the boardgame effect and requiring maps.
I like 4e.
Requires a little thinking but is better than 5.
Has a guy who does solo gaming almost entirely, I found this oddly inspiring to dive deeper into my particular rabbit hole. Thanks for sharing this.
Ive tried Ironsworn for solo play. Ive enjoyed its "oracle" idea, which I assume predates Ironsworn for "no DM" play. Ive taken that oracle idea into my DMing for players, as a help for improv prompts.
@pinesandtraplines iron sworn is a great system!
I loved running 4th edition.
I started playing DCC a few months ago. It's so much fun!
4e was my first DnD experience, and I have a soft spot for it. It doesn’t look like DnD in any traditional sense, but it captures the feeling of epic heroes more so than 5e imo, they made martial classes on par with spell casters. You mentioned using a VTT with 4e, is a great way to experience 4e because it was designed with a computer in mind, the tech wasn’t there yet as it is now.
The modules are very cool. I also really love the Ebberon campaign setting. Also it’s the last edition to have Dark Sun as a campaign setting, which I regret not buying at the time.
I might run a 4e mini campaign with my group for the nostalgia factor.
Never played 4e, but I don't intend to play 5.5e. I'm currently on a quest to learn as many other systems as I can including Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, Achtung! Cthulhu, Star Trek Adventures, G.I. Joe, W40K Wrath & Glory, Pathfinder, etc... Happy to branch out from D&D, and fortunately, my players are willing to try new things with me.
I loved DMing 4e at the gamestore. Very easy to run. The modules were also great with the maps and tokens.
Gamma World based on 4e rules kicks ass. Its pretty much a campaign based adventure series board game.
Man, that sounds awesome! Gamma World was such a blast!
@@charleshartley9597 It's alot of fun. You can graba base set for pretty cheap, it's technically 7th edition, though it's easy to spot in the lime green box.
The collectible card aspect it had going for mutations and loot isn't a handicap because you can buy the full set of all the cards on Drive Thru RPG print on demand for 20 bucks or so.
Hell yeah, brother. Welcome back to the fold.
I've always heard 4e was perfectly balanced but people hate it and now get your channel suggested, I'm going to deep dive and figure out what's going on. Very interested in your perspective
It's not "perfectly balanced," but compared to 5e it might as well be. The difference between designers that care and designers that clearly don't.
Every class works on the same "spell" system called Powers, which are like "moves" that you can either use at will, recharge on a short rest, or recharge on a long rest. I've played 4e for like a decade, and while it has a special place in my heart, I think I still prefer 5e; 4e requires a lot of homebrew to make it much more than a dungeon crawling ARPG. Imo they should have made it a whole new system, because frankly it doesn't play much like DnD does, but more like I understand a system like Icon to play.
Played 4e for 130 consecutive weeks and have to say I hated the balance of it. It's why I also don't like Pathfinder 2.x. it really stifles creative processes as player always search their "boxes" for solutions. Nope no utility power, guess I can't help. Uggh
So happy it died.
Part of it is that 3.x was so badly balanced that 4e might as well have been perfectly balanced in comparison. The biggest problem it had was more about player expectations than what it was when considered in isolation. I've been playing RPGs for 45 years, and in that time I've found that different games "scratch different itches." Each rules system carries with it an implied setting that not only indicates the world but also the kind of characters it supports. Fourth Edition changed so many things that for many of us it no longer felt like it scratched the same itch as previous editions of D&D. It felt like a different game, but that didn't work for people who just wanted a better version of the previous game.
@@Lemurion287 If they had called it D&D tactics it would have been a great game. But it deviated so much from previous editions.
I was dragged kicking and screaming into 4e back in the time, but fell in love with the mechanics.... I'd love to find a group to play 4e with. also, if anybody knows a legal way to get the complete computer character builder, I'd be most grateful.
My love of 4e is somewhat at a distance
I've never played 4e proper but I've spent an immense amount of time on the systems that 4e helped inspire, like Lancer and Icon, so I have a strong appreciation for its design principles
I started with D&D 2e and played all the editions after. I liked 4E as it has some cool mechanics, especially with tanks making ways to punish monsters for not attacking tank. I think this was cause I played with a few DMs who love to ignore fighters or other front liners and rush the casters in back row. Ultimately though after coming from the options of 3.5 it just felt too limiting on characters so while I liked 4E combat it started to feel a bit too much like the click miniatures games.
When D&D 5e came out and said it would be a return to that customization, but really 5e feels real restricted as pick subclass for class and pretty much the same for anyone playing that class. I know they have added some optional rules to increase customization but characters still feel the same and ironically I felt more variety in 4E due to powers selection.
I didn't play Pathfinder 1 because when 4E came out our group wanted to go with the new D&D. And our group actually liked it though I did understand it's drastic changes not appealing to all. However once again when the new D&D came out in 5E our group wanted to stick with what's new.
However due to WoTC actions in recent years with the OGL and many other issue I and several in our group moved over the Pathfinder 2E and love it. Combat rules are nice and tight to the point that you rarely have to worry about pick being sub-optimal as in combat tactics matter more, vast amount of customization to the point two people in the same class can be built so differently they don't even feel like the same class since customization help how mechanically your character plays more than being about stats. Tons of down time and other such rules for that at first might seem overwhelming but in the end are nice to have because you don' t need to know them off hand but if someone ask "Can I do this?" there is probably a rule for that. Which saves the headache of having to think up house rules on the fly then remember them so things are consistent.
While it has been years since I played 4E and I did enjoy my time with it I don't think I could go back to it. Nor could I stay with 5E as even before WoTC morally questionable behavior it didn't draw me in like previous editions had. After sinking into PF2e I don't really wanna back to any Edition of D&D. 3.5 was my favorite due to customization but also was very fast and loose with rules to the point you could make insainly broken characters if you know how. 4E had a nice flatten of the power curve but that tightness and other changes felt to confining. Where as 5E feels kinda like 3e if someone removed all the customization and forced you to play base classes.
PF2e just checks so many boxes for me that it feels like what D&D should have become as it actually simplifies a lot of things, like 3 action economy vs the multiple action types D&D still ues which let classes with bonus actions feel like they get more per turn. Having customization without it getting all crazy like 3.5 as well as balancing it so not overly worried about bad picks in character creation. And so on. You mention having played PF1 in the video but didn't hear anything about PF2e. No community is as large as D&D 5e currently but I suspect PF2e is probably larger than Dnd4E. And might want to check it out if you haven't already. Unlike WoTC they actually care about fans and complete PF2e rules are available online.
Played Basic and AD&D back in the day. 4 different DM’s, different groups and states. Dabbled as a guest player in other additions over the years. AD&D is absolutely magical if you have the right group of people and a creative expressive DM.
One of the best recommendations that TH-cam made, i back to 3.5 and i happy with my choice (I like de 4e too), for nostalgia 3.5 are my favorite system and i gonna stay with this edition now from on.
4e has it's flaws, but the crucial thing is that they aren't what people said they were when they were all losing their minds back in 2008.
Holy poop, i thought i was alone in liking 4e!
I've got all the materials including both magazines for 4e (in pdf form)
I like stuff from 4e, not all. But I really do wanna sit down and for real play it to really know
Absolutely agree. If people are going to use VTTs , 4e is probably the go to.
It’s got to be an amazing experience if you’re a 3d printing fanatic as well.
I have collected DCC and MCC for the last few years. I love everything about it, especially the art. In the last few years I have successfully gotten a few friends to play rhrough one funnel. They loved it and we never played again. lol
4E is definitely on my list to pitch the next time I'm up to run in my group. Not sure if it's going to win out, either among my friends or just as the thing *I* will wind up wanting to run compared to 5.5 or Draw Steel when it's available, but it's definitely on my radar as something I have nostalgia for, perhaps rose-tinted nostalgia, but nostalgia nonetheless.
MCDM Systems mentioned 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
I grew up playing 2nd edition. I got excited when I read about 5th ed, and not long ago I finally started a campaign with my daughter and niece. I’m enjoying it, but I’m really missing 2nd ed now. I think I’m going to talk with them about switching versions and importing some of the rules and features we enjoyed from 5th.
What from 2e is better than 5e?
@ 2e is a bit more video-game-Raquel in the way it handles classes and actions. It doesn’t do this to the extent 4th did, but it’s definitely there. While this is fun, it can make the game feel boxed in, like a very elaborate board game instead of a storytelling sandbox.
I also like that 2nd dives into skills in a way that is more storytelling focused. 2nd also fits better for low fantasy games. It’s a lot of little things that add up to something very different.
AD&D 2nd edition was my favorite by far. I agree with Robert in that there are a lot of small differences that add up to a much different feel. I like that classes have different amounts of xp required for level advancement. I like the magic item charge system more. I loved that each class had a Handbook of its own. I could just go on and on.... I like that it was dangerous!!!!
@ yeah, I think 5th added a lot of cool ideas, and I want to back port some of them, but to a large extent I want to go back and dust off my old books. I felt like we were making more interesting stories when I used that system.
I used to DM 3.0 and later tacked on Miniatures Handbook rules for my tactical craving, and 4e definitely worked for my style right out of the box.
I played bard and um... spellblade? in 4e. I can say it's the ONLY DnD that I've had where action economy worked for everyone every turn and didn't need clarification and rulings and arguments. I'm for the same reason hoping to play some pathfinder 2e... At least before it gets power crept and house ruled to the huge multidocument messes Pathfinder 1e games I've joined have been.
4e gets a bad reputation that it doesn't deserve. There's a fair bit in 5e rules that is taken from or inspired by 4e; Hit Dice and Healing Surges are essentially the same thing for example. 4e does lack in the support for the roleplaying side of things, not a lot of powers work outside of combat, but it is great for tactical table top combat.
For anyone looking to try it out, get your hands on the 4e DMG and the PHB make some first level characters and run the dungeon 'Kobold Hall' in the back of the DMG. It's a great little dungeon.
My players in 4e always are using the combat powers outside of combat, you just gotta be willing to adjudicate flexibly. Using cold damage to freeze a liquid solid or using fire damage ti melt something is reasonable. Using blugeoning damage to break down a wall or using a movement ability to parkour through something all seems very reasonable. Given how encounter powers recharge every 5 minutes, and given how many extra effects get tied to various abilities, players are constantly finding ways ti be creative with their combat powers outside of combat and I actually think it creates much better roleplaying and creative problem solving than the tools that dnd 5e gives the players.
4e is a great system if your into high fantasy !!! Go for it !
They've somewhat realized they need something with the Barbarian's Brutal Strike, Fighters with their Tactical abilities and Weapon Masteries, and Rogue's Cunning Strikes.
The lore I have heard from 4e is pretty good. I don't like some of the rewrites, but really like a lot of the new stuff and the clarifications. May have to give it a look. You have convinced me to give it a shot.
Im 29 years old, been playing 1st edition for 15 years. Played every edition since except 4th, i might give it a try.
Heck yeah, 4E was really fun and cool. I was so into it, and I loved their take on classes like the Shaman and Warlord. I hope you have a great time with it!
I feel like the Warlord is usually one of the 3 things people miss most about 4e.
This is interesting to me. I started on 2nd edition AD&D back in the early 90s. I was "AFK" until the 5th edition came out. For me, it's about rules light like Cairn and knave, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning more about stuff I don't know, so I appreciate you sharing this!
Started w basic in 87 and 4E is probably my favorite edition. I was telling friends the other night that if instead of all the stacking conditions that were such a PITA to track, we used advantage/disadvantage from 5E, I bet the game would flow a lot better
I started on 4E, and I was so shocked how much people hated on it. I played 5E but eventually I was pushed more towards narrative games like Blades in the Dark, because I found playing and running 5E combat so boring and it made sense to eliminate it in favor of leaning more into roleplaying. I miss the crunchy tactical combat of 4E with decisions to make each turn.
You might also want to check out Lancer if you like mechs, it seems like 4E's combat design ethos but a little more crunchy
I play The Fantasy Trip cause I play solo and it has the appropiate modules both new and old. It also looks and plays like a boardgame (wargame?) and that got a couple folks to play it with me, occasionally my partner joins too. I think D6D 4th might be the next step for me but looks daunting.
Old school d&d is based on probability. What you might call subsystems is just the game trying to simulate your odds at certain types of actions. Example, reaction rolls are on a bell curve to simulate that its ordinary for people to have neutral responses, and unusual for people to have extreme responses. 1d6 search checks are significantly improved by a +1, unlike d20 saves or attacks (16.6% vs 5% per +1). Its literally changes the value of a +1 based on context. I think thats cool.
4th has always been my favorite edition as well. The powers lend themselves to such creative descriptions of how they look and what happens as the rules are clear so fluffy descriptions can flow out. I think it was the tools were clear and worked and it is how you use those tools to tell a great story.
There's a really cool quality to your voice! I'd play 4e with you.
My group recently dropped Pathfinder 2E to go back to DnD 4E and despite some initial hesitancy the whole group is loving it. It's such a breath of fresh air and the tactical combat is IMO second to none
4e is the most comprehensive and internally consistent rule set of any edition of D&D.
It’s fun.
And the best kobolds of any edition. Monsters do what they do. And, the monster stat blocks have everything you need in one place
So I'll do you one better as far as "contrarian" mindset goes... I love the 4e Essentials line. I think they're some of the best products in the franchise and the smaller form-factor books are just glorious.
Have fun your way man. I started with 4e, so cheers. Ive been messing around with Delving Deeper and stuff like that. No subscription service for me.
Also GenX here, played since AD&D, played 3.x in graduate school, then skipped 4th later in grad school. Question for the 4e hivemind here: I'm intrigued by this version and have moved to PF2 or Advanced 5th Edition (aka "LevelUp"), but I've heard good stuff about 4th that I missed. What resources are available for playing in Foundry? Actually, I should scour the comments here more but wanted to ask specifically.
Also, sorry for a bit of necro in the video! Cheers!
Out of all the TTRPGs I hardly play D&D any more and if I do I still only play 2nd Ed. AD&D. Mostly because it is what I grew up on and I have a lot of books and all the PDFs for it. I say play what you love but everyone should branch out and try different TTRPGs.
Edition wars vol 3462, but I am here for it. I've play since '82 and 4E is my favorite too
Some years ago, when I was a teen i played 3.5, loved It. Picked D&D again this year for a huge campaing, and yeah, I think I'll go back to 3.5
Cool, man! Play what works for you. I tried 4E as a player, I never tried to DM it. It was OK for me, but not my favorite. But if you get more out of it than I do, wonderful!
Good tip to anyone doing 4e that i have a lot of success with... take a level 20 plus monster but stat them to be your parties level. Thry can do some crazy stuff thats fun as heck. Might not be balanced but have one of these with a couple normal monsters for that level plusna few minions, is fun as heck
I enjoyed 4e. I learned to GM with the system. I do understand the MMO criticisms and the repetitive nature of the various classes after a while.
But the skill challenges? Not having to wait ten minutes as people flip through their spells EVERY turn? The ease of CR and encounter building? My god I loved 4e.
I ran 4e from the playtest until a year after 5e came out, and have played since 78 . 4e was a great game. Its not D&D, but it's a great fantasy RPG; based on world of warcraft video game with themes from earlier editions of D&D. It had four innovations of note - "advantage", "character role", "conditions", and "play phase". The main down side of it was the math is broken - and the designers became aware of it, and corrected it starting with the publication of Monster Manual III, and then in the Essentials series. If I were to run it now, I would use the Essentials books for the players, as the math is corrected in them. The other thing that was broken in 4e was the "flat" characters - they are all the same, regardless of what class or race you pick, or power, or spell - strip away the name and trappings - its xd6 damage, etc.. No mechanical diversity.
if you need a player, i've been anting to play it again. miss those classes we never to back like Invoker and Warlord
that's great! we're trying to maybe set something up on discord: discord.gg/AyqunJmJUx
My entry into dnd was AD&D2E and it and 4e are my 2 favorites. 3.5 got gamed way too hard to the point every single game i played was an arms race to find a way to play the most ridiculously broken stuff you could, at least at my table. 4e came out and the balance side was a huge thing i enjoyed. Sure there were optimal ways to play technically most of them werent significantly better or worse to such a degree you were effectively multiple levels ahead of your fellow players. 4e was a ton of fun and I recommend it to most people
As a player who doesn't like the flavor of most casters, 4e was the most fun edition and it had so many great additions and fixes for the game.
We can say it now. 4E was ahead of its time.
4th edition was incredibly underrated and I am sad that they ruined the whole thing by switching to essentials which was a half measure that satisfied nobody, and then pull the plug on all future projects 5 years in.
4th edition nerfed magic-users, giving them more durability, but taking away their ability to summon 200 minions at level 19. The min-maxers hated getting nerfed, and were especially vocal about their disgust towards the system. As a DM I enjoyed not having to babysit the party for two levels until they became decent heroes.
Big advocate for 4e. Been running it for the last 3-4 years, switching from 5e. Love it. Just made a switch to AD&D 2e. Debating on whether I want to stay with that.
4E is the only addition I haven't been able to get any copies of. Anyone have any recommendations on how to find all three books of 4e?
Honestly, 4e had various great ideas. l played it for 2 years and had several players who also enjoyed the game.
I did use various aspects from previous additions and gave it my own personal twist.
So, I didn't play RAW but still had fun.😊
Played and supported 4e through the times when it was hated most. still love it
Hey, different strokes for different folks, I hope you and your friends have fun! :)
When my kids are old enough and have enough free time, we're going to play AD&D 2e. Even though I only ever played 3.5 back in the day, there's something earthier and just... lovely about 2e.
Have you taken a look at some of the other DCC settings and spin off games? Umerica is my favorite right now but MCC, x crawl , weird West and so many more are just so good.
Yo, I love this video!!!
Also, can you tell me how you mix your audio? Haha your voice is like smooth butter
I've been playing since 1979, and I was never able to warm up to 4e. Having said that, it sounds like the best version for what you want to do. Have fun with it.
I never played 4e, but i recently bought "Orcus" which is a 4e clone. Have you ever seen it, if so, what are your thoughts.
I haven't. Looks cool and I'll check it out
@@MegaBlizzardman if you grab a copy, please upload about it. Would love to hear a true comparison
I initially didn’t like 4e. I think it was too different and seemed too gamey. But as the years have passed and I’ve reread many of the books, I do think it was a pretty good system. And as you brought up, having a complete, balanced system is really appealing. The minion rules are great. I carry them into other systems. I would really like to go back and give it a try if I could find a group willing to play it.
If you ever need to run 5e, I updated Keep on the Shadowfell and The Slaying Stone to 5e on the DM's Guild. If you ever need to play 5e as a player, I made Player's Guide to Powers, which is a nearly one-to-one conversion of the 4e Player's Handbook classes to 5e versions and it is also on the DM's Guild.
I've never played 4e, looked but never played, and i find so many of these sentiments true for pathfinder 2e. I love the modularity and fairness of it all, it's my goto "game to play with other internet strangers" game
When people said that they hated powers because it made the Fighter and Wizard too similar, I think if how 5e 2014 and 2024 editions both have made spells so OP that playing a martial class is basically not viable.
I have never played 4e but this video has made me now want to really play it
I am curious about 4E for sure. Gotta try it sometime.
Love 4e, and not the Essentials version I mean, good on you for playing what you want to play!
I liked 4e for the combat. From memory it wasn't so hot outside of that.
There's some good parts you can read through and lift for your games which I would recommend for every edition.
While I totally wouldn't be moving to 4e myself, I totally understand the reasons for doing so and encourage everyone (especially DMs) to look at the game systems we choose to run and if those games are deserving of our time. Personally, I have started to run Pathfinder 2e in place of my D&D 5e games. Though I would love to try out some Fabula Ultima down the line too. :)
I love at wills, encounter, and daily abuilities.
Recently picked up a 4e DMG at a thrift store. Might go back also.
DnD 4e is the most well balanced and user friendly (especially as a DM) version that I have played and is still my preferred tabletop RPG. The rules and balance are so good and make sense which allows the rules to actually get out of the way for MORE roleplaying in my experience. and the combat cant be matched.
my group quite like 4th Edition the only thing we found was combat just drag on a bit too much at the higher levels, as though I have been wanting to go back to it to play a isekai campaign
I really enjoyed 4e but couldn't get anyone to play it with me back when it was fresh. On the flip side, I got a good chunk of my friends to play Gamma World 7e that was based on the same 4e framework. Some of my fondest ttrpg memories.
I played 4E pickups at a LGS every week in college (was it called the adventure league?) and enjoyed committing to a 60-90 session with as few strings attached as possible. Then my buddy ran a 4E Gamma World campaign for 2 years where we played every week. I will never give up my 4E collection, even if I never get to play it again. People who rag on it can rarely come up with a reason its "not good" that isnt perfectly paralleled in 3E or 5E. Its just a meme to hate 4E.
As a huge fan of Final Fantasy Tactics series, 4E is very satisfying combat for me, but I would rather play it as a video game.
That being said, after hundreds of sessions of 4E and 5E, I just think the combat takes up too much time and doesn't keep focus for players. This is why I switched to OSR - Cairn and Old School Essentials specifically. I ran the sessions with solid emphasis on resources, exploration, and problem solving. Combat is quick and resolved usually within 3 rounds or less and it is always tight and brutal. Play what you love and best of luck!
I've been considering this as well, and for the exact same reasons.
I even like what we've seen from 5.5 so far. But the "pay forever" model isn't really something I want to deal with.
My big challenge is getting the tables I DM at to be interested as well.
Love it! look for the software installation for 4e! was fantastic
Ever since I watched some people play 4e, I've wanted to try it. something about the at wills and war game aspects of it just make sense to me. the only thing I wasn't super keen on from that one game I saw was all the different duration effects you can apply and then have to keep track of. even just a few in 5e always trip me up and I forget to tick them down then lose track, so that's the only big issue I think I'd have with 4e, but I still think it'd be right up my ally otherwise
It seems like 4e had a huge amount of support (booklets, adventures, rule supplements, settings). I wish I had a group to play it with. :D
4e monsters were amazing. I have a lot of great memories of playing a ranger too. It's a lot harder to get into though. So many tables and the magic items were so freaking generic.
I started all the way back, with the three little booklets (and Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, Chainmail). Within a coiuple years, I moved on to Traveller, Melee/Wizards (primordial GURPS), and other games. My group didn't come back to the DnD brand (a little dabbling in 3x, and I ran a great campaign in Star Wars Saga Edition, which had heavy cross-pollination with 4e) until 4e - and it hit us perfectly, most of us are old wargamers, so minis-grid-tactical rocked. None of us are tempted to buy 5e, let alone 5.5/6.0/One/whatever.
And omygoodness, the concept and structure or skill challenges is a marvelous tool! Very poorly developed/explained in the official publications, but it's a method I use in nearly every game I run.
It’s funny that people say 4e is like a video game when 3e (or any d20 style game) played just like Fallout and other similar RPGs
It even has video games like Neverwinter Night 1 & 2, and Icewind Dale 2 whereas 4e only has Neverwinter Online.
So video games copied a popular system of role playing, and you think that makes the system video game-y, and not the other way around?
@ bro fallout came out years before 3e 😂
@@dac314 you are 100% correct. All 4e did was codify the role that already de facto in existence. The holy trinity existed in rpg's long before MMOs came along.
@@Arasaka the problem is the holy trinity is a bug, not intentional design. A bug that can destroy games or make them not fun.
Hey MegaBlizzardman, would you be interested in checking out a system that I've built and been playtesting before I attempt to market it?
I'm considering going back to 4E after getting bored and annoyed with 5E (also because WotC was getting obnoxious, but that's another story...). I've had way more fun with 4E than any other edition of the game and had happier memories as a result. How this came about was because I originally considered using the Fantasy Age system for my sword and sorcery rpgs, but although it is a good system, I felt I needed more. Part of me wanted to go back to D&D because I still had a soft spot for it, but no way was I EVER going back to 5E, especially with the new players handbook release. So I thought to myself: "Of all the editions I played, which one would I prefer to DM?". After much thought, I found that 4E was the one. It was important to make this decision because there are too many D&D clones (Dungeon Crawl Classics, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Castles and Crusades, etc). With so many choices, it would be a waste of my time and effort to go through them all just to find the D&D game of my dreams. So it made sense to use the one edition that I have used before, had the most fun with and use it as my personal base system.
2nd edition was great, I loved. Becmi was great . Never got a chance to try 4e, and never wanted to try 5e.
I got the chance to play 4e a few months back and while I enjoyed it, I found that the changes that Lancer and Pathfinder 2e have made to streamline the action economy even further into either a 3 action system or one that does 2 actions with a 3rd at a cost have made the gameplay a lot more interesting and tactically flexible. So while I loved 4e, I don't think I'll ever run it for my group because more modern systems improved upon the foundations too much.