depends in the situation but for marksmen its crucial to have an extra range and atk+ms in fights it could save you in certain situations on the otherhand yes MR has more penetration but still only applies to tanky heroes which you could let your team handle it, its about team play as well even if you have malefic roar for tanky heroes if your team will not support you it will be less effective. its like have more dmg vs lesser dmg with better mobility and survivability, you cant make dmg if you are dead.
At the same time, if you can't kill the enemies while the enemy kills your teammates, you'd lose. Malefic gun is like an item that'll help your objectives (staying safe and killings tanks) at the same time less likely to guarantee them (rose gold and malefic roar are better for those purposes)
Nah, as this video shows, it really is more complex then just that. You might be right for example Hanabi, Wanwan in a fair amount of cases. Lets take non attack speed dependent marksman as an example tho. Brody for example can‘t really benefit from it. All of its stats are mediocre to him: Aspd: As said, Brody is not Attack speed dependent. All the attack speed Brody needs, is given by Wind of Nature and in late game Demon Hunter Sword. Movement speed: Probably the best stat for him. In my humble opinion, It can be argued that the movement from Agility, Quantum Charge and Hunter Strike is enough. Range Increase: I don‘t see this as something Brody struggles with. His main combo (Flicker - S2 - S1 - BA - Ult) and also his usual gameplay doesn‘t really benefit from a little Ba range compared to the likes of Layla, Miya and Hanabi. What he needs is raw penetration to enhance his high HP-Based damage. And for that, no doubt Malefic Roar is better. Point being - You will have to itemize for every hero individually instead of generalize item choices.
@@IchKenDichI saw some brody using malefic gun with heptaseas, and hunter strike but uses dhs and halberd as a substitute to fight against tanky heroes or is it just because enemy tanks are more base on hp like hylos and the enemy exp is 2 damage item dive type not a full tank setup type like gatot or terizla who have massive physical defense
@@myopiamlbb I think they just want the halberd to boost every damage source since it boost every source of damage by percent when you are squishier and the penetration of heptaseas stacking with malefic gun and hunter strike to finish off tanks who have lower defense but higher hp since the damage of dhs and the boosted dhs damage with halberd is lower with halberd and hunterstrike being the second highest physical attack help in finishing off semi tanks with the increase damage boost of halberd with the high physical damage and slight pen of the hunterstrike, malefic gun and heptaseas with the boosted overall damage of halberd and boosted pen of malefic gun a 2 basic attack ult can finish off hp base defense tanks and semi fighter build without even being close in range
I always build it for Layla and almost never build it for anyone else. It's selling point is attack range, not penetration. Penetration just allows you to skip building malefic roar, saving a slot. Honestly, I care to finish off squishies asap, not tanks. Like, oh no, it takes an extra 3 seconds to kill a tank, that can't burst you anyway.
no, you cant stack them since they have the same unique effect. you will only enjoy ONE of the 30% penetration, but the other unique passives will work.
I think what the devs are trying to achieve with adding malefic gun is to give marksmen a penetration item whilst also boosting their inherent advantage (far range of basic attack) but also not abandoning high damage melee heroes.
@@Jasonnielsen12345 The devs did the right thing if you ask me. The MG excels in range and utility, also due to its kiting efficiency when used on marksmen. But it still cannot beat MR in terms of anti-tank capability and versatility.
@@rustylarry7465 Yeah but whichever of the two malefic items purchased first gets the 30% pen. The malefic gun still gets its range and movement speed, and the malefic roar still gets its increased pen.
If enemy has very High defence go for roar since the passive armour buster is very needed...if they have light armour and regen go for malefic gun..also i used Malefic gun with brody very good since he can attack while moving and the mov speed is very handy.its useless for clint coz Clints passive range doesn't increase.
@mlbbxgamings9231 the basic attack range increases not the passive shot..tried it several times in the Practice mode...even without malefic gun ur passive hit the tower and with malefic gun his basic attack hit the tower but the passive range stays the same..
@@mlbbxgamings9231 u do the passive shot from way far with malefic gun but distance is same..most of the time the passive shot with malefic gun will just blast but will not connect...visual satisfaction
At this point my YSS build is 2 core items and then DIY according to situation. Queen's wings, thunder belt, malefic roar, winter crown, immortality, rose gold meteor, malefic gun, berserkers fury , war axe, bruteforce breastplate I use them all according to situation for the last 3 item slots and sometimes 4 item slots after i sell boots .
imo it depends on the situation like you stated in the video. But one thing that malefic gun is good at is countering zoning and no other item can do that (correct me if im wrong) But this item is a must for layla.
@@PHXReborn Argument whether it's good or not aside, it's not a good first item. Windtalker is better for laning, plus it got buffed. I'm seeing people build it early🥲
@@ITLOG-TV Not all basic attackers are long-ranged to warrant a malefic gun. Some basic attackers are melee combatants like Aulus, Zilong, and Argus. And the malefic roar is not limited to skill damage only. It is still used by a wide variety of heroes regardless of role, even with the first release of the malefic gun. Edit: My god I miss playing dota...
@myopiamlbb thats why I used the terms "basic attackers" instead of "marksmans." Malefic roar is still viable to basic attackers but it is the best item for skill+basic atk heroes like Saber, Natalia, Fanny, most assassins. It depends on your priority, most of basic attackers needs Mobility, Positioning and atk spd, like wanwan, moskov, aulus, freya.
@myopiamlbb she also relies on atk spd that's why they use inspire on her sometimes they build goldenstaff. Freya is optional it depends on situations. But for me I oftentimes pick Mgun for her because of her aoe basic atk and her 2nd skill cd is low, mgun passive is everytime you hit a skill you gain ms.
The choice between Malefic Roar and Malefic Gun depends on the specific situation and the hero you're playing. Here's a breakdown to help you decide: Malefic Roar: * Best for: Heroes that deal physical damage and face enemies with high physical defense. * Pros: * Significantly increases damage against enemies with high physical defense. * Provides a good balance of attack speed and physical penetration. * Cons: * Less effective against enemies with low physical defense. * Can be a bit expensive. Malefic Gun: * Best for: Heroes that benefit from increased attack range, especially those with long-range abilities. * Pros: * Increases attack range, allowing you to attack enemies from a safer distance. * Provides a decent amount of physical attack and attack speed. * Cons: * Doesn't directly increase damage against high-defense enemies. * May not be as impactful for heroes that rely on close-range combat. When to choose which: * Malefic Roar: If the enemy team has tanks or fighters with high physical defense, Malefic Roar will significantly increase your damage output. * Malefic Gun: If you need to kite enemies or poke them from a safe distance, Malefic Gun is a good choice. Ultimately, the best choice depends on the specific game situation and your hero's strengths and weaknesses. Consider the enemy team composition, your hero's role, and your playstyle to make the best decision.
The mistake is that, based on the stats, the malefic roar does not give attack speed, but physical attack. Between the two, the malefic gun gives attack speed. Also, the malefic gun costs 2,120 gold, while the malefic roar costs 2,060 gold; so the malefic gun is a bit more expensive.
@@djaluyudhistira3835 I'll give you a similar example: Glowing Wand and Dominance Ice. Whichever is activated first carries the anti-heal. If you hit somebody, the glowing wand activates. If you get hit, the dominance ice activates. The glowing wand still has the burn effects while the dominance ice still reduces the enemy's attack speed, but the anti-heal is only activated depending on your first move, whether you hit somebody or you get hit. For the malefic items, only whichever is purchased first gets the 30% base pen, but other passive effects from both items still apply.
@@myopiamlbb MM- Miya, Hanabi...Ik Malefic gun gives extra vision + attack speed, but hunter strike does the same + extra attack power. It all comes to enemy heros.
@@TarunBtp Against tanks, the hunter strike cannot penetrate their defense by itself in the late game, even with the damage boost from the sea halberd.
@@ZayiksIqariWatch Strongwill's old vids (but chou isn't compatible) For chou malefic roar is to increase damage against tanks but Heptaseas or BladeoD are better for squishies
@@ZayiksIqari This is my own theory, but in order to make malfury works malefic roar needs to have the same/more pen than heptaseas/hunterstrike. Usually when you finish malfury, you and enemies are lvl6-8 which have at least 40+ def which gives you 14+ pen that justify malfury. Or idk actually, I'm just playing around for the memories🥲
Part 2: th-cam.com/video/_5OxiXYjq5s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tf_MCkwSKKB0jMyF
depends in the situation but for marksmen its crucial to have an extra range and atk+ms in fights it could save you in certain situations on the otherhand yes MR has more penetration but still only applies to tanky heroes which you could let your team handle it, its about team play as well even if you have malefic roar for tanky heroes if your team will not support you it will be less effective.
its like have more dmg vs lesser dmg with better mobility and survivability, you cant make dmg if you are dead.
At the same time, if you can't kill the enemies while the enemy kills your teammates, you'd lose.
Malefic gun is like an item that'll help your objectives (staying safe and killings tanks) at the same time less likely to guarantee them (rose gold and malefic roar are better for those purposes)
Why is this change so under rated
@@amanraj-gj1gz What change?
@@myopiamlbb I think than he tried to say: "channel"
@@myopiamlbb incorrect spelling , I was writing channel
@@amanraj-gj1gz Oh... Okay, I appreciate the feedback, thank you.
I would prefer more utility (mspeed, range) than damage, so gun
Nah, as this video shows, it really is more complex then just that.
You might be right for example Hanabi, Wanwan in a fair amount of cases.
Lets take non attack speed dependent marksman as an example tho. Brody for example can‘t really benefit from it. All of its stats are mediocre to him:
Aspd: As said, Brody is not Attack speed dependent. All the attack speed Brody needs, is given by Wind of Nature and in late game Demon Hunter Sword.
Movement speed: Probably the best stat for him. In my humble opinion, It can be argued that the movement from Agility, Quantum Charge and Hunter Strike is enough.
Range Increase: I don‘t see this as something Brody struggles with. His main combo (Flicker - S2 - S1 - BA - Ult) and also his usual gameplay doesn‘t really benefit from a little Ba range compared to the likes of Layla, Miya and Hanabi.
What he needs is raw penetration to enhance his high HP-Based damage. And for that, no doubt Malefic Roar is better.
Point being - You will have to itemize for every hero individually instead of generalize item choices.
@@IchKenDich You have all the exact points correct about Brody.
@@IchKenDichI saw some brody using malefic gun with heptaseas, and hunter strike but uses dhs and halberd as a substitute to fight against tanky heroes or is it just because enemy tanks are more base on hp like hylos and the enemy exp is 2 damage item dive type not a full tank setup type like gatot or terizla who have massive physical defense
@@Feecofinated Hunter strike is recommended for Brody, along with DHS. For halberd, leave the anti-heal to mages and roamers. Heptaseas? Pathetic.
@@myopiamlbb I think they just want the halberd to boost every damage source since it boost every source of damage by percent when you are squishier and the penetration of heptaseas stacking with malefic gun and hunter strike to finish off tanks who have lower defense but higher hp since the damage of dhs and the boosted dhs damage with halberd is lower
with halberd and hunterstrike being the second highest physical attack help in finishing off semi tanks with the increase damage boost of halberd with the high physical damage and slight pen of the hunterstrike, malefic gun and heptaseas with the boosted overall damage of halberd and boosted pen of malefic gun a 2 basic attack ult can finish off hp base defense tanks and semi fighter build without even being close in range
Malefic roar is really effective in this meta because it counters the Thunder belts.
I always build it for Layla and almost never build it for anyone else. It's selling point is attack range, not penetration. Penetration just allows you to skip building malefic roar, saving a slot. Honestly, I care to finish off squishies asap, not tanks. Like, oh no, it takes an extra 3 seconds to kill a tank, that can't burst you anyway.
If I buy both the items, would I have 40 penetration and extra attack range? I want to know what passives am getting with both items equipped
no, you cant stack them since they have the same unique effect. you will only enjoy ONE of the 30% penetration, but the other unique passives will work.
@@Nick-Dragrus Exactly the point.
I think what the devs are trying to achieve with adding malefic gun is to give marksmen a penetration item whilst also boosting their inherent advantage (far range of basic attack) but also not abandoning high damage melee heroes.
@@Jasonnielsen12345 The devs did the right thing if you ask me. The MG excels in range and utility, also due to its kiting efficiency when used on marksmen. But it still cannot beat MR in terms of anti-tank capability and versatility.
Shouldn't be a VS video but a +. Use em both
@@booch2912 They both don't stack my guy.
@@myopiamlbbpretty sure the second passive of malefic roar still works even if you have malefic gun, the up to 30% pen one.
@@rustylarry7465 Yeah but whichever of the two malefic items purchased first gets the 30% pen. The malefic gun still gets its range and movement speed, and the malefic roar still gets its increased pen.
I was using Malefic Gun on Karrie for the extra attack range
I forgot that she doesn't even need penetration stats, and she'll be squishier than ever
No shit, that's why Karrie have a tank meta for quite some time
If enemy has very High defence go for roar since the passive armour buster is very needed...if they have light armour and regen go for malefic gun..also i used Malefic gun with brody very good since he can attack while moving and the mov speed is very handy.its useless for clint coz Clints passive range doesn't increase.
It increase.. Bro see properly in custom mode..it increase upto 8.5
@mlbbxgamings9231 the basic attack range increases not the passive shot..tried it several times in the Practice mode...even without malefic gun ur passive hit the tower and with malefic gun his basic attack hit the tower but the passive range stays the same..
@@mlbbxgamings9231 u do the passive shot from way far with malefic gun but distance is same..most of the time the passive shot with malefic gun will just blast but will not connect...visual satisfaction
At this point my YSS build is 2 core items and then DIY according to situation.
Queen's wings, thunder belt, malefic roar, winter crown, immortality, rose gold meteor, malefic gun, berserkers fury , war axe, bruteforce breastplate
I use them all according to situation for the last 3 item slots and sometimes 4 item slots after i sell boots .
@@Asahi_991 I'm confused. What actually is your standard YSS core build?
The better Malefic for squishies are Blade of Depair or Rose gold😁
imo it depends on the situation like you stated in the video. But one thing that malefic gun is good at is countering zoning and no other item can do that (correct me if im wrong)
But this item is a must for layla.
@@PHXReborn Argument whether it's good or not aside, it's not a good first item. Windtalker is better for laning, plus it got buffed.
I'm seeing people build it early🥲
Malefic roar for skill based damage,
Malefic gun for basic attackers.
@@ITLOG-TV
Not all basic attackers are long-ranged to warrant a malefic gun. Some basic attackers are melee combatants like Aulus, Zilong, and Argus.
And the malefic roar is not limited to skill damage only. It is still used by a wide variety of heroes regardless of role, even with the first release of the malefic gun.
Edit: My god I miss playing dota...
@myopiamlbb thats why I used the terms "basic attackers" instead of "marksmans."
Malefic roar is still viable to basic attackers but it is the best item for skill+basic atk heroes like Saber, Natalia, Fanny, most assassins. It depends on your priority, most of basic attackers needs Mobility, Positioning and atk spd, like wanwan, moskov, aulus, freya.
@@ITLOG-TV Freya is also a "skill + basic atk" hero if you ask me.
@myopiamlbb she also relies on atk spd that's why they use inspire on her sometimes they build goldenstaff. Freya is optional it depends on situations. But for me I oftentimes pick Mgun for her because of her aoe basic atk and her 2nd skill cd is low, mgun passive is everytime you hit a skill you gain ms.
The choice between Malefic Roar and Malefic Gun depends on the specific situation and the hero you're playing. Here's a breakdown to help you decide:
Malefic Roar:
* Best for: Heroes that deal physical damage and face enemies with high physical defense.
* Pros:
* Significantly increases damage against enemies with high physical defense.
* Provides a good balance of attack speed and physical penetration.
* Cons:
* Less effective against enemies with low physical defense.
* Can be a bit expensive.
Malefic Gun:
* Best for: Heroes that benefit from increased attack range, especially those with long-range abilities.
* Pros:
* Increases attack range, allowing you to attack enemies from a safer distance.
* Provides a decent amount of physical attack and attack speed.
* Cons:
* Doesn't directly increase damage against high-defense enemies.
* May not be as impactful for heroes that rely on close-range combat.
When to choose which:
* Malefic Roar: If the enemy team has tanks or fighters with high physical defense, Malefic Roar will significantly increase your damage output.
* Malefic Gun: If you need to kite enemies or poke them from a safe distance, Malefic Gun is a good choice.
Ultimately, the best choice depends on the specific game situation and your hero's strengths and weaknesses. Consider the enemy team composition, your hero's role, and your playstyle to make the best decision.
The mistake is that, based on the stats, the malefic roar does not give attack speed, but physical attack. Between the two, the malefic gun gives attack speed. Also, the malefic gun costs 2,120 gold, while the malefic roar costs 2,060 gold; so the malefic gun is a bit more expensive.
@myopiamlbb oh thanks for the correction, appreciated. Just wanted to break it down for people that tend to be lazy watching. 😂
Use both period
@@abduljakul8621 The 30% penetration is not stackable.
@@myopiamlbb but we can use mov speed passive from gun and high damage from roar
@@djaluyudhistira3835 True but the 30% base pen will only be used by whichever between the two malefic items is purchased first.
@@djaluyudhistira3835 I'll give you a similar example: Glowing Wand and Dominance Ice. Whichever is activated first carries the anti-heal. If you hit somebody, the glowing wand activates. If you get hit, the dominance ice activates. The glowing wand still has the burn effects while the dominance ice still reduces the enemy's attack speed, but the anti-heal is only activated depending on your first move, whether you hit somebody or you get hit.
For the malefic items, only whichever is purchased first gets the 30% base pen, but other passive effects from both items still apply.
@@myopiamlbb see? You said it in the end that *other passive* will be applied
Are malefics stackable?
@@bookmakie8607 They are NOT stackable.
The unique passives that they both have will not stack.
I use neither. I go for Hunter strike + great dragon sphere / Sea Halberd instead of Malefic roar & gun.
@@TarunBtp What hero are you using?
@@myopiamlbb MM- Miya, Hanabi...Ik Malefic gun gives extra vision + attack speed, but hunter strike does the same + extra attack power. It all comes to enemy heros.
@@TarunBtp Against tanks, the hunter strike cannot penetrate their defense by itself in the late game, even with the damage boost from the sea halberd.
@@myopiamlbb i see.... if u r using miya and ur opponents r Belerik, Fredrin, ghatotkacha, eudora & wanWan, what build & emblem set would you use ?
@@TarunBtp
Haas' claw
Windtalker
Berserker
Wind of nature
Malefic roar
DHS
RGM/Athena/immortal
You can replace malefic roar with malefic gun.
So is malfury viable agian ?
@@ZayiksIqari Still viable in my opinion.
@myopiamlbb the thing is who can use it ?
@@ZayiksIqariWatch Strongwill's old vids (but chou isn't compatible)
For chou malefic roar is to increase damage against tanks but Heptaseas or BladeoD are better for squishies
@@zackzoom8779 I'm an old viewer of strongwill he used to recommend malfury on yz but idk about now
@@ZayiksIqari This is my own theory, but in order to make malfury works malefic roar needs to have the same/more pen than heptaseas/hunterstrike. Usually when you finish malfury, you and enemies are lvl6-8 which have at least 40+ def which gives you 14+ pen that justify malfury.
Or idk actually, I'm just playing around for the memories🥲
a
nahh tf is this kind of editing bru
Malefik gUn no evek on Turet, With male roar istan Damage on turet but Male roar just like wintalker on turet...