I find this helpful when framing 80-20 “The rule originally comes from famed exercise physiologist Stephen Seiler. When he studied elite athletes, he found that 80% of their sessions were done at low intensity. 20% of their sessions were high intensity. High intensity is anything above the first ventilatory threshold, or the top of Zone 1 in a 3-zone model. Note that the athletes he studied were typically doing more than 10 sessions per week, which maps out to 2-3 high-intensity sessions per week. This is consistent with what other research has found to be optimal. Many people here and elsewhere incorrectly believe that the ratio applies to either time or distance in zone. Instead, it refers to the ratio of hard sessions to easy ones. Any session that includes efforts in zones 2 or 3 (again, in a 3-zone model), is classified as a “hard” session. It is also important to note that this “rule” began as an observation. Seiler observed elite athletes behaving a certain way and wrote it down. The “rule” was not intended to be a prescription. If you run 3 days/wk including 1 hard session, you’re at 67/33. That might work for you. Many people run 5-6 days/wk with 2 hard sessions. That might be 40% hard, but it works well for many people (myself included). There are many differences between us and elite athletes. Don’t mindlessly do what they do without understanding why. So what does this mean for us? At its simplest level, it means mostly run slow, occasionally run hard. Don’t get bogged down in the exact distribution. DEFINITELY don’t spend any time (not one single second) trying to get your time-in-zone to work out to exactly 80/20. That misses the point entirely. It is entirely possible to be in a speed block (focusing on 200m and 400m repeats, for example) and only spend 5% of your time or distance above zone 1. This would be normal and productive.”
I just got injured this week and have been panicking about whether I will be able to train for a half marathon in February (maybe two 😅). You guys reminded me that most of the training I had planned was really just for confidence 😊
I feel like I willed this into existence. I was talking to my wife about Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 book while we ran this weekend so this is great timing!
Thanks for answering my questions. And yes it was quite clear to me that in the end this means a loss in performance. but it was still great to hear about strategies to deal with this.
#gtncoachescorner I have a question: I started seriously jogging in March after 6 years of sporadic training. I went through a c25k to a 15k in October. Even at my slowest, tiniest steps, if I focus on cadence, my heart rate increases into zone 3. Which is more important to focus on as a new jogger, cadence or heart rate zones? Should I focus on neither and work on getting my mileage up to a half since I have that scheduled in February? Thank you for your motivating videos and good advise.
#GTNCoachesCorner - major point of clarification on 80/20... a VO2 Max session is never 100% intensity for the entire session. So are you considering the entire entire session in the 20%, or just the minutes that you're in super-Z2? I don't buy 80/20 and I think James described its limitations well for amateur athletes
I have a question. I’m trying to run a faster half marathon. I can easily run the distance. I’ve been running 3 days. I’ve been doing a zone 2 long run one of those days. If I can recover properly should I be pushing more and running faster instead? I’ve been running slow for my long run because zone 2 is supposed to be all unicorns and rainbows, running slow to run faster.
#gtncoachescorner To what extent should I be weight training during race season? I’m currently in the build-up to Challenge Wanaka (70.3) in February and have been strength training twice a week, upper/lower split using fairly heavy weights with some running specific plyometrics at the end of each. My legs are sore post leg day. Should I be dropping the weights down during race season and focussing on lighter run/bike specific movements in the gym or using that fatigue to my advantage (practicing running on tired legs)? Thanks so much for your advice. These are always invaluable videos.
I recently did a run training session after eating a whole pizza. No problems whatsoever. But I'm used to eating a big breakfast before running, so definitely something that can be trained.
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the "fitness test" seems like a good idea for first timers, going for swim in "comfy pace" and measure how long it takes... then same on bike few days later... and same with run few days later... if you can do all in zone2 then you know you can push and even go for some good time, not just finishing
Interesting you’d recommend removing 2 peak weeks if any have to be removed? Versus shifting things around and cutting out say, two build weeks and still hitting your taper as scheduled, with the benefit of still getting the higher volume in?
I have a question. I'm a pretty good runner. I have run twenty marathons Boston qualifying in eight of them. I have two sub 3 hour marathons. I have started doing triathlons. I have done three triathlons Olympic, 70.3, and 140.6. I want to run well, how do you work doing a triathlon into your marathon training plan. I was injured last year so I volunteered at three triathlons last year. They (TriUtah) have a nice program volunteer one, race one for free.
Here in the USA, the women's champions of both the collegiate D1 cross-country nationals and the high school Nike Cross Nationals were athletes who only run limited miles per week, relying on intense cross-training instead. I'd love some ideas for how to train this way!
Or keep it simple. According to Steve Magness: “Get out and move. Most should be easy to moderate so you can keep coming back day after day. Some should be moderate/hard. And very occasionally you should "go see god" to remind yourself what going to the well is like.”
#gtncoach’scorner Is it more effective with heavy strength training two sessions per week or many short body weight training sessions per week ? To know what is fact and what is one trend is not easy. I think the trend now is to do heavy strength training with fewer reps . I changed training program this month actually and this new program got a lot of 1 min squats, rest 10 s 1 min lunges etc I can do them but I feel more that they are good for activating muscle for my running. I used to do heavy strength training in the gym, lifting almost my own weight. Try to keep it for around 8 reps even lower. Thank you for very good channel. I check every day for a new video from you.// Marie-Louise (Sweden)
Maybe not for coaches corner, but thought it might be interesting nonetheless. Just saw Conner at GCN with a clipless peddle episode. Made me wonder, would a triathlete benefit more from clipless (stronger leg muscles from running, thus better at those “micro adjustments” and less time swapping shoes in t2)? Or would it impact the running too hard (fatigue)? #gtncoachescorner
Hello #gtncoachescorner. Most bike companies offer two different models of triathlon bikes. Canyon Speedmax CFR / CF SLX, Cervelo P5 / P-series, QR VP-R / XP-R and so on. I understand that aerodynamics and bike performance can vary greatly between individuals, but what is an estimated performance difference between the top and middle tier models of bikes? I know you guys work with Canyon so what would be the best estimated time difference over a 180K bike using a Speedmax CFR with either Shimano Dura Ace or SRAM Red vs a Speedmax CF SLX running either Ultegra or Force? Let's assume same wheelset for both bikes. Thanks!
Hi guys. I’m trying to help my partner find running shoes - she has bunions and the typical running shoes hurt her feet after a run. Any tips on how to find appropriate footwear? Most of the emphasis in ‘fitting’ appears to be on gait analysis.
Isn’t it the minutes so in a eg 30/30 bike session adding up those 30 seconds might only add up to 15 or 20 minutes out of a much longer workout so if your volume is low you can still work out how many minutes to do so a number of minutes at the end of a zone two session for example. ? No..?
#gtncoachescorner Is there a saddle that be used on road bike with aero bars and is comfortable enough whether we are using the aero bars or being aero while holding the hoods?
I'm an open water swimmer, done a few 5k and 10k races, and did my second olimpic triathlon last week, yes in Mexico we have races in December, the first one was on October and the swimming got cancelled because there was a crocodile 🐊 in the beach........ anyway I thought I had the swimming nailed, but as soon as I got in the water r I started to become breathless, the water was 20°c, but yesterday I swam at the same spot and was even colder and didn't had any problems.......I think maybe I didn't train enough on my trisuit.........any advice on this issue?? #gtncoachescorner
#gtncoachescorner Hello! i am a 14 year old from Bangladesh and I have run 3 marathons. I finished all of them at around the 5 hour mark and have now recently quit running the marathon distance and am saving it for when I'm older. I have instead acquired a coach and am training mainly for the 5k and 10k distances with some half marathons here and there. The reason I decided to stop doing marathons is because after speaking to some more experienced runners they all said I should be training for more 5ks and 10ks because those distances are harder to become better at when I'm older. Other than that, they always gave a vague answer of "You're just gonna break your legs" or "Your body isn't ready yet" when i told them I have done a full marathon. Can you explain in finer details for why someone at 14 yrs old shouldn't be running 42k at once and what consequences they can face?
Drop your questions in the comments using #gtncoachescorner 👇
Best explanation and clarification I've heard of the 80/20 method. Wish all the influencers could hear it 👍
These guys do a decent job to be fair 😎
@@ironmantooltime Thanks 🙏
💯 GTN rocks
I find this helpful when framing 80-20
“The rule originally comes from famed exercise physiologist Stephen Seiler. When he studied elite athletes, he found that 80% of their sessions were done at low intensity. 20% of their sessions were high intensity. High intensity is anything above the first ventilatory threshold, or the top of Zone 1 in a 3-zone model. Note that the athletes he studied were typically doing more than 10 sessions per week, which maps out to 2-3 high-intensity sessions per week. This is consistent with what other research has found to be optimal.
Many people here and elsewhere incorrectly believe that the ratio applies to either time or distance in zone. Instead, it refers to the ratio of hard sessions to easy ones. Any session that includes efforts in zones 2 or 3 (again, in a 3-zone model), is classified as a “hard” session.
It is also important to note that this “rule” began as an observation. Seiler observed elite athletes behaving a certain way and wrote it down. The “rule” was not intended to be a prescription. If you run 3 days/wk including 1 hard session, you’re at 67/33. That might work for you. Many people run 5-6 days/wk with 2 hard sessions. That might be 40% hard, but it works well for many people (myself included). There are many differences between us and elite athletes. Don’t mindlessly do what they do without understanding why.
So what does this mean for us? At its simplest level, it means mostly run slow, occasionally run hard. Don’t get bogged down in the exact distribution. DEFINITELY don’t spend any time (not one single second) trying to get your time-in-zone to work out to exactly 80/20. That misses the point entirely.
It is entirely possible to be in a speed block (focusing on 200m and 400m repeats, for example) and only spend 5% of your time or distance above zone 1. This would be normal and productive.”
“How long does it take for you to recover,” is the best rule for all. I can adapt that as I age and if I am injured.
I just got injured this week and have been panicking about whether I will be able to train for a half marathon in February (maybe two 😅). You guys reminded me that most of the training I had planned was really just for confidence 😊
Thank you for clarifying the 80/20 method! I have been very confused about that one but now I know what I have to do in my own training.
I feel like I willed this into existence. I was talking to my wife about Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 book while we ran this weekend so this is great timing!
Happy training - have you got some exciting goals for 2024?
@@gtn 50k trail run!
I enjoyed the discussion & information ℹ️ Thanks guys
Most welcome!
Thanks for answering my questions. And yes it was quite clear to me that in the end this means a loss in performance. but it was still great to hear about strategies to deal with this.
#gtncoachescorner I have a question: I started seriously jogging in March after 6 years of sporadic training. I went through a c25k to a 15k in October. Even at my slowest, tiniest steps, if I focus on cadence, my heart rate increases into zone 3. Which is more important to focus on as a new jogger, cadence or heart rate zones? Should I focus on neither and work on getting my mileage up to a half since I have that scheduled in February? Thank you for your motivating videos and good advise.
#GTNCoachesCorner - major point of clarification on 80/20... a VO2 Max session is never 100% intensity for the entire session. So are you considering the entire entire session in the 20%, or just the minutes that you're in super-Z2? I don't buy 80/20 and I think James described its limitations well for amateur athletes
80/20 endurance book is a great. And a great program to follow.
I have a question. I’m trying to run a faster half marathon. I can easily run the distance. I’ve been running 3 days. I’ve been doing a zone 2 long run one of those days. If I can recover properly should I be pushing more and running faster instead? I’ve been running slow for my long run because zone 2 is supposed to be all unicorns and rainbows, running slow to run faster.
#gtncoachescorner To what extent should I be weight training during race season? I’m currently in the build-up to Challenge Wanaka (70.3) in February and have been strength training twice a week, upper/lower split using fairly heavy weights with some running specific plyometrics at the end of each. My legs are sore post leg day. Should I be dropping the weights down during race season and focussing on lighter run/bike specific movements in the gym or using that fatigue to my advantage (practicing running on tired legs)? Thanks so much for your advice. These are always invaluable videos.
Cheers, excellent advice - I've thrown 80:20 out of the window completely ;o)
I recently did a run training session after eating a whole pizza. No problems whatsoever. But I'm used to eating a big breakfast before running, so definitely something that can be trained.
the "fitness test" seems like a good idea for first timers, going for swim in "comfy pace" and measure how long it takes... then same on bike few days later... and same with run few days later...
if you can do all in zone2 then you know you can push and even go for some good time, not just finishing
Hello, great video again! Off topic, what happens when cranks are too short?
then you buy longer cranks, bike fit is highly recommended before buying them
Interesting you’d recommend removing 2 peak weeks if any have to be removed? Versus shifting things around and cutting out say, two build weeks and still hitting your taper as scheduled, with the benefit of still getting the higher volume in?
I have a question. I'm a pretty good runner. I have run twenty marathons Boston qualifying in eight of them. I have two sub 3 hour marathons. I have started doing triathlons. I have done three triathlons Olympic, 70.3, and 140.6. I want to run well, how do you work doing a triathlon into your marathon training plan. I was injured last year so I volunteered at three triathlons last year. They (TriUtah) have a nice program volunteer one, race one for free.
Here in the USA, the women's champions of both the collegiate D1 cross-country nationals and the high school Nike Cross Nationals were athletes who only run limited miles per week, relying on intense cross-training instead. I'd love some ideas for how to train this way!
Or keep it simple. According to Steve Magness: “Get out and move. Most should be easy to moderate so you can keep coming back day after day. Some should be moderate/hard. And very occasionally you should "go see god" to remind yourself what going to the well is like.”
#gtncoach’scorner
Is it more effective with heavy strength training two sessions per week or many short body weight training sessions per week ?
To know what is fact and what is one trend is not easy. I think the trend now is to do heavy strength training with fewer reps .
I changed training program this month actually and this new program got a lot of 1 min squats, rest 10 s 1 min lunges etc I can do them but I feel more that they are good for activating muscle for my running.
I used to do heavy strength training in the gym, lifting almost my own weight. Try to keep it for around 8 reps even lower.
Thank you for very good channel. I check every day for a new video from you.// Marie-Louise (Sweden)
Maybe not for coaches corner, but thought it might be interesting nonetheless. Just saw Conner at GCN with a clipless peddle episode. Made me wonder, would a triathlete benefit more from clipless (stronger leg muscles from running, thus better at those “micro adjustments” and less time swapping shoes in t2)? Or would it impact the running too hard (fatigue)? #gtncoachescorner
Hello #gtncoachescorner. Most bike companies offer two different models of triathlon bikes. Canyon Speedmax CFR / CF SLX, Cervelo P5 / P-series, QR VP-R / XP-R and so on. I understand that aerodynamics and bike performance can vary greatly between individuals, but what is an estimated performance difference between the top and middle tier models of bikes? I know you guys work with Canyon so what would be the best estimated time difference over a 180K bike using a Speedmax CFR with either Shimano Dura Ace or SRAM Red vs a Speedmax CF SLX running either Ultegra or Force? Let's assume same wheelset for both bikes. Thanks!
Hi guys. I’m trying to help my partner find running shoes - she has bunions and the typical running shoes hurt her feet after a run. Any tips on how to find appropriate footwear? Most of the emphasis in ‘fitting’ appears to be on gait analysis.
Isn’t it the minutes so in a eg 30/30 bike session adding up those 30 seconds might only add up to 15 or 20 minutes out of a much longer workout so if your volume is low you can still work out how many minutes to do so a number of minutes at the end of a zone two session for example.
? No..?
Do you have an email if I wanted to ask a direct question?… I have a suggestion about a future vlog but wanted to ask directly…thanks 👍👍👍
#gtncoachescorner Is there a saddle that be used on road bike with aero bars and is comfortable enough whether we are using the aero bars or being aero while holding the hoods?
I'm an open water swimmer, done a few 5k and 10k races, and did my second olimpic triathlon last week, yes in Mexico we have races in December, the first one was on October and the swimming got cancelled because there was a crocodile 🐊 in the beach........ anyway I thought I had the swimming nailed, but as soon as I got in the water r I started to become breathless, the water was 20°c, but yesterday I swam at the same spot and was even colder and didn't had any problems.......I think maybe I didn't train enough on my trisuit.........any advice on this issue?? #gtncoachescorner
#gtncoachescorner Hello! i am a 14 year old from Bangladesh and I have run 3 marathons. I finished all of them at around the 5 hour mark and have now recently quit running the marathon distance and am saving it for when I'm older. I have instead acquired a coach and am training mainly for the 5k and 10k distances with some half marathons here and there. The reason I decided to stop doing marathons is because after speaking to some more experienced runners they all said I should be training for more 5ks and 10ks because those distances are harder to become better at when I'm older. Other than that, they always gave a vague answer of "You're just gonna break your legs" or "Your body isn't ready yet" when i told them I have done a full marathon. Can you explain in finer details for why someone at 14 yrs old shouldn't be running 42k at once and what consequences they can face?
Is adding a formal Olympic Distance in my training plan a good measure of my fitness half way or so through my plan for a 70.3? #gtncoachescorner
What happened to your hand, James???
8020 only if ur doing over 7hrs a wk 😜
… as a German Biologist
I stopped “Tri Athlon” training
Far too demanding time and Effort
Gaining
no Thing
Gaining nothing?? Surely you got fitter from it ??
@@na-dk9vm NO
@@na-dk9vm
No
Over training
TIME wasted
not worth it
@@raginald7mars408 but what if you cut back on the time/intensity, then you wouldn't over Train??
@@na-dk9vm
impossible
this is a lethal VIRUS
propelling you to over do it
Marathon training alone is already overwhelming