I mean, if you deal with videos that are gonna be viewed by a variety of people, showing them respect no matter what their viewpoint is on a subject, they tend to be more cordial in turn
This video is so humbling. I escaped a cult and sometimes dealing with my family and old community leaves me wanting to move to another country. Thanks for reminding us that people are people, even when they’re lost and finding hope in the wrong places.
I remember when my dad thought the moon was hollow and that it was a base for alien observation and it had a computer inside it that was actually running the matrix and we are living inside it. Fun times.
I can get behind having sympathy for conspiracy theorists up until they are theorizing about tragedies being false flags and/or harassing victims’ loved ones. Like my fiancé’s brother was at the finish line of the Boston marathon and had (luckily) just started to walk off to find a friend when the bombs went off, one of his friends had to have a limb amputated. My fiancé and I were supposed to go with him but my fiancé was on leave and unexpectedly had to go back to his base early the day before. So I can’t even imagine what people like the parents of the Sandy Hook victims went through after being harassed and told their grief was acting. I don’t know, I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’m all about being compassionate and understanding especially to people who are clearly finding something in conspiracy theories that aren’t being fulfilled elsewhere in their life. I just think there’s a line being crossed in _some_ instances that deserve more condemnation than compassion as a response.
@wolf masque That's an example of what I like to call "internet phrenology", where people take tiny fragments of information and try to use it to fabricate whole worlds of information that have nothing to do with what they actually saw, and of course it all comes from motivated reasoning. It also reminds me of high school when I was telling my youth group about a guy at my school that died. One person pointed out that I was "smiling," when I said it, so of course I had to mask up, clamp down all my reactions to what was really going on and calmly explain to them that it wasn't a smile, it was a grimace because my emotions were all over the place. Like, come on, people, you don't know what's happening inside someone's head.
@@excrubulent And also, people need to remember that people have different reactions to grief or shock. I am the person that ends up laughing when I am socked or in grief and that has something to do with me. As in, while I am extremely empathetic to others in the same situation, if it’s happening to me, my coping mechanism is to laugh (of course, it’s not always, but it’s still a coping mechanism). And I laugh in relief, too. Similarly, there are people who cry, sing, etc. when they’re in a difficult situation. And as you, some people might be grimacing and that may come off as a smile. Human emotions are a wonder and what may be a coping mechanism to one may be a mockery to another. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to show proper emotions at proper time, just that we should keep in mind that it might not be what we think it is.
Like I can forgive a wayward person who’s like “We never went to the moon!!!” “The earth is FLAAAAT” “The Illuminati is real.” Because believing in that stuff doesn’t hurt a single person, but it’s the ones that involve specific people or groups, particularly to harm them. That’s where my “ohhh okay! That’s an interesting concept” ends
Yeah man sorry about your fiancé’s brother. I’m ok with folks believing whatever they want. I’m not ok with people getting harassed in that context at all. Like those assholes that we’re harassing veterans funerals because there’s gay people and that’s why God had to kill them or some really batshit crazy nonsense. It stopped when biker gangs started providing security at the funerals.
“I once said, does it ever occur to you that someone is just trolling you, making you look dumb by creating conspiracies?” And then he stopped believing in them…
@@ididsomeunspeakablethingsa4899that the people in power actually know exactly what they're doing to the point that none of us ever will until it's too late
I appreciate that you mentioned that conspiracy theorists are often *very* intellectually curious. They're not stupid, but they do have incomplete information a lot of the time, and the conclusions they draw are often fueled by an extremely justified suspicion of people in power. My brother, for example, did poorly in school and never really achieved a basic level of reading comprehension. He became a conspiracy theorist for a while, and the reason was because he *was* curious about the world. He would have been perfectly capable of understanding the more mainstream answers to his questions, but he didn't have access to those sources most of the time, and even worse, he didn't have the tools to understand them well. I managed to convince him the earth is round, but it took a long, long time, and unraveling a bunch of other ideas first. What ended up happening was when he brought me an argument I would meet with it on it's merits, like soft-core debunking. He eventually learned how to critique these arguments on his own. The problem here was not my brother on his own, it was the myriad ways the education system failed him, and the fact that we actually do live in a dystopian hellscape.
Please join a socialist or communist party, one that focuses on revolution instead of reforming the democrats. A better world is possible, but it isn’t a capitalist world.
Are you not sick of corporations buying our government and pushing through trade agreements that pits US workers against people who work for pennies a day? Or do you like homelessness, poverty; and needless suffering?
@@justinwatson1510 listen i get what you're trying to do and I respect it but context is important when you are a political advocate. This context isn't appropriate and that means it only comes off as annoying to those who don't agree with you, and bizarre to those who are neutral or do agree with you.
Most people who believe in conspiracy theories can see that stuff is seriously wrong in society. They have people on the right blaming black people and immigrants for their problems, and liberals telling them nothing is wrong wrong with the system, just a few bad apples that need to be thrown out. You can’t argue with them from a liberal position and have honest conversations about the problems that led those people to embrace conspiracy theories, but a Marxist framework would do nicely. I feel like that makes it relevant.
I was hoping that this would help me with dealing with my mother, who believes mostly harmless conspiracy theories except for the ones around Covid and vaccines. Sadly, as I went through this I realized that I've tried all this. Same with my older brother. And as I thought about it more and more, I realized the issue for me personally is less about the conspiracy itself and more on my mother's stubbornness. Some people are just too prideful to admit when they're wrong.
Help your mother look at those who most use the anti-vax to give them political power. In every case their actions will be to protect themselves even as they put others at risk. In almost every case they will have the shot, usual,y secretly, and stand alone high on the podium while their follow their every word crowded below.
Flat-earther- 'Send me photos of space things, that I may claim them to be photo-shopped!' I describe Eratosthenes's experiment, I take into account your distrust of secondhand evidence and spell out how you can repeat this experiment and various other ways to get firsthand evidence of reality. Flat-earther- 'I ignore everything you say, I repeat my demand that you send me photos of space things, that I may claim them to be photo-shopped!' The problem with many conspiracy theorists is that they are intellectually dishonest, they expect and want you to treat them with ridicule so they can re-affirm their rightness and other's unworthiness. If you don't play into this they may try to force you into hostility by lying to you and ridiculing you and various similar sophistry games. I have spoken with an earnest conspiracy-believer before, who was receptive to polite conversation and willing to alter their positions upon receiving new information or insight that they lacked, but I warn against assuming that a conspiracy-theorist operates on good faith.
I also love how sometimes FE people will quote written accounts to counter other evidence. As if photos can be faked, but a written account cannot be incorrect or faked. I do think the Street Epistemology approach is the most effective approach to conspiracy theorists. But it has significant limitations, as it is effective in a personal, one-on-one conversation, it takes practice, and the other person can't already be defensive towards you. So it is useless on social media, in group settings, or with people you have argued with before, especially on the topic.
I agree that many people operate on bad faith generally. Still, it is dangerous to assume that someone operates on bad faith before you know it to be true, and it is especially dangerous to assume that an entire group operates this way. While it will never be possible to change everyone's minds, or possibly not even a majority (for reasons including the one you're referring to here), I think the best way to change as many as possible is to approach people as though they were acting in good faith and make earnest attempts to persuade them. Even if they are not converted, you may plant seeds of doubt or make it harder for them to make their claims as confidently. If nothing else, you will learn more about the issue at hand by having to research and present it. There are questions about your own time and energy too, of course. All of this to say that I think you're right, but I hope people don't assume this from the outset, as it stops us from having important conversations if we don't give people the opportunity to act in good faith in the first place.
@@Schoritzobandit It should go without saying that you should operate on good faith until the other person gives reason for you to think they are acting in bad faith. I don't know how you can 'know' a person is acting on bad faith, as you can't know what is going on inside their head. But if the way they act is indistinguishable from acting in bad faith, then it is safe to assume they are acting on bad faith. Generally, this should be pointed out to them, as it might give them pause to think about how they are engaging in the topic.
It's important to notice that it's not your duty to change their minds, nor their duty to engage in such attemps. If someone doesn't change their mind, that's just normal. No need to claim they're stubborn. And to remember that most people believe the earth is round by accepting what they've been thaught, and would fail to explain what makes them so sure it is round.
@@maurorodrigoatenciobaragon5651 "It's important to notice that it's not your duty to change their minds" True. Or maybe not. The consequences can be as severe as it gets for conspiracy theories. These consequences can be as trivial as time, but can also include being exploited for money, death of the individual, and even the deaths of innocent bystanders. Take the JQ or climate change denial as examples. Tens of millions died as a result from the first, and the second could cost hundreds of millions of lives. It is also worth pointing out that believing in one conspiracy theory makes you more vulnerable to believing in others. So the first one may not be so severe, but the 2nd one, or the nth one could cost people their lives. If you could potentially save the lives of other people, especially those who are just innocent bystanders, do you have a responsibility? "...nor their duty to engage in such attemps. If someone doesn't change their mind, that's just normal. No need to claim they're stubborn." It is an emotionally based refusal to accept what is most likely true. Call it what you will. "And to remember that most people believe the earth is round by accepting what they've been thaught, and would fail to explain what makes them so sure it is round." Sure, that's why societies need experts, and for the average person, they need to trust the consensus of experts, not any quack who makes an emotional appeal. To even approach the ability for everyone to understand everything, it would require an endless education, and by the time you died of old age, you still wouldn't understand everything. Maybe you don't care if you live in a dumpster fire of human misery, death, and exploitation, but I'd like to work towards a better world.
A bit of a correction on the events of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study: It's not that the black men involved were forcibly given syphilis, but that they had already been infected with syphilis through their own lives and were deceived into believing they were going to receive medical care for it
Commenting to bump, and also to add that in many cases the men didn't even know they had syphilis. The researchers didn't inform them of this or the fact that they had an illness they could pass to others. Not only did they not provide treatment and lie about it, but they actively took steps to prevent the participants from getting treatment elsewhere.
There was also treatment for syphilis available at the time, but the people in the study never got it because they were told they were already being treated and since the study was extended to 40 years many did die because of a treatable illness. I thought I'd add that because although no one was given syphilis, some did die as a result of the study.
Also bump for this important correction. I'd also add that the treatments available when they started the study were limited. Even after a decade when penicillin became the treatment of choice since it was much more effective they still didn't give it to the victims. Three decades after that they stopped the study, by then 28 participants had died of the disease, 100 more from related complications, at least 40 spouses had been diagnosed with it, and the scientists let the disease pass to 19 children
You wanna know why people start with compassion and end up angry at conspiracy theorists? Because it burns them out. Imagine hearing your friends/family talk about these things everyday, trying to convince them otherwise while resulting in little progress, and in the end, giving up because it is being taxing on you... It is difficult to convince a smart person that they are wrong, but almost impossible to convince an ignorant one
In many cases when it comes to personal relationships it's also because it hurts you. It's not hard to take it as some sort of betrayal. Poor communication is a core environmental issue for this situation to arise.
Yes its emotionally taxing, especially when the only thing you're trying to do is bring some balance to the equasion, like stating it isnt necessarily a conspiracy that oil can only be produced in a lab in a couple days under ideal circumstances that dont exist in nature. They only hear "lab" and something that qualifies as an exclusion to an arbitrary rule. I actually had a similar discussion recently about how having doubts of the availability of a certain type of information where its demonstrable that counter info is actively suppressed, should look suspicious. Their position is that there are no counter arguments because those are false, and nothing is being suppressed. The argument was wether or not information was being suppressed, but they wouldn't entertain the fact that deleting posts and having a policy against posting what they called misinformation was a form of supression. The problem is that ppl have opinions of what an objective fact is, that is clearly in opposition to the fact of its actual definition. Whats worse is when ppl dont understand what a fact is and what qualifies as a fact.
You also can't win with it. I had two friends who were conspiracy theorists. I was kind to them and just allowed them to talk where I would neither argue nor agree. And just me not actively agreeing with them would lead to them becoming infuriated. It's draining to try and appease that attitude and arguing results in an even worse reaction.
I was a conspiracy theorists, back when I smoked ridiculous amounts of marijuana. I gave it up when I realized that the powers that be are neither coordinated, nor competent enough to pull any of it off.
I think it's worth looking at where the rich and powerful fracture in their unity and why. Epstein didn't kill himself and trump wished maxwell well as she remained silent and was released from prison.
I'm still not sure. It looks like this country is being sabotaged. I can't prove or disprove it, but it sure looks like a lot of "accidents" have happened in a row. It's really weird that some very bright minds can't figure out that printing more money = more "transitory" (sarcasm) inflation. It looks as though they want to destroy this currency and introduce "fed coin", a controllable currency that they can put expiration dates on and delete when you say "wrong think" things. It's really weird that we've had multiple very aggressive assaults against small business. First was in 2007. Second was in 2020 with the shut downs. Third was the riots, which were sponsored by Soros and the like. That's not conspiracy, that is actually a proven paper trail. Anyway, it's really weird that large businesses got to operate, while small businesses were permanently removed. It's like they're trying to push us into a new era of plutocracy, not seen since the 1800s. Oh yeah, and now they want to bring back child labor. Again, total coincidence. Yep.
Minor correction: The Tuskegee Study didn't infect the subjects with syphilis. They selected 600 poor black farmers in Alabama, of whom 399 had syphilis. They were never informed of their syphilis diagnosis and were not provided with treatment over the 40 years of the study, even though effective treatments had become available within 15 years. By the end of the study, 128 subjects had died from syphilis or its complications, and 60 or more family members and partners had been infected.
Yeah I was pretty sure that nobody was inoculated by the government, but giving ineffective treatment is almost, if not just, as bad. It’s a confusing error because it’s such a famous case, but hopefully the rest of the video doesn’t have many errors
I really like step 4: give them time. We all need time to think things through, especially when we're presented with conflicting information. Also, thank you for putting so much thought and effort into this video. It shows. You've done very well.
Giving them time is good, but it honestly can do more harm than good if they stay in their echo-chambers of flat-earth groups and such. Alot of them call themselves critical thinkers, but refuse to look critically at their own beliefs and acknowledge the flaws with them. This just causes them to not question what the conspiracy groups say and just makes them double down on their belief without actually doing research beyond what they immediately see in front of them. Funny story, I had a guy tell me that the earth doesn't spin because the other planets don't spin. He probably saw the moon through a telescope, noticed it "didn't spin" because its tidally locked with the earth, then applied that logic to everything in the solar system. The fact he acknowledged that there were other planets and a solar system, but refused to look a little deeper into the topic, heck even looked through a telescope, he would realize that the other planets do spin and maybe he would have realized the earth also spins. At the end of the day, he probably chose to do none of that, and logged into a flat-earth chat somewhere. Fun fact: On the note of spinning planets, all the planets in our solar system rotate counter clockwise, except for Venus and Uranus which have been theorized to have had their rotations changed due to massive collisions
I find this really interesting, as some one who had an undiagnosed personality disorder for the majority of their life. One where I could be considered delusional on a regular basis. Truly believing that people were out to get me. But, like a conspiracy theorist, the delusion is really just how I incorrectly adapted to specific stressors. Uncertainty, feeling like I wasn't being listened to, etc. Someone just telling me that I was wrong and that I needed to snap out of it only made the situation worse. It made me feel that my feelings were wrong and that I was bad for having them. It made me more distrustful of people and I doubled down my maladaptive behaviors. Finally having someone validate my emotions and thoughts in the form of Dialectic Behavior Therapy was life changing. And honestly, very similar to what you are recommending here. DBT is about acknowledging that the feeling is valid and real - and working on ways to manage them more effectively. Here, you are acknowledging that their belief is valid and (secretly) guiding them to more effective beliefs (science). I am in no way comparing conspiracy theorists to those with personality disorders. I just wanted to highlight how validation and compassion are better ways to help people than simply telling them that they are wrong.
People don't need to have a mental illness to have bad mental health. I think some people think if they don't have a mental illness then they're mentally healthy. Having bad mental health is usually what preceeds developing a mental illness (and even then there are varying types, degrees, and co-morbidities). I feel like much could be changed if our education system put more emphasis on psychotherapy (and government). DBT changed my life as well. I wish I could have had the resources when I was growing up. Why did we have to wait to learn these things until after we were damaged?
hey i just want to say, i am also someone with a personality disorder and i *really* like the connections you drew between this and dbt! it's such a great comparison/parallel, it shows that in so many situations, the most effective way to change is through compassion, validation, and non-judgement, rather than dismissal and trivialization. sending best wishes to you!
31:51 I think this is why lizard aliens end up looking so reasonable, only non-humans could possibly coordinate well enough for most of those conspiracies to work.
This channel is a gem. Glad I stumbled upon it. I feel almost offended that such a well produced video has only 5000 views. Anyways, this video really helped me realise that I’m a bit of a jerk. I do struggle with being condescending towards people I disagree with. I assume that my position is the most rational and have a hard time understanding other people’s views. It’s really hard to get rid of this habit. I’ll try my best in the future to be more understanding and compassionate
Your video is kind, and there are conspiracy theories that are not a threat. I don't care if someone believes the world is flat. But I do care about "Jewish space lasers" because that type of theory leads to solutions I don't care for. You know, the Final kind of solutions. As leftists, I'd like to see us pick our battles carefully so we can focus on theory groups that can actually cause damage.
Responses need to be flexible. If there's some redemption story for the antisemite, I don't want to keep them from writing it - but I'd be cheerful about paying that price if that's part of keeping them from harming someone meanwhile.
Its difficult because even flat earth can have spurious implications. For example, in my part of the world, flat earth can be a mask for more dangerous forms of Christian fundamentalism. Like all things, its case by case.
@@Joshuaraymalan You're right, of course. The fundamentalists are organized and vote. If we ever get around to reversing Citizens United, I'd also love to see the tax exempt status of any church that pushes politics from the pulpit revoked.
@@Joshuaraymalan Yeah, the flat earth shit crosses the line for me too as it's just a complete rejection of science and the foundations of human understanding of nature. We need science more than ever and we can't have people undermining it. Plus, like you say, these people also tend to be religious fundamentalists and creationists (another wholesale rejection of basic science). It's just toxic stuff...
Really love the positive, empathetic, and compassionate vibes. I see to many leftist TH-cam creators try to appeal to edge lords by mocking and ridiculing. And while I think that may work for some, it really makes it hard to share their videos with family, friends, and neighbors.
Not accusing Zoe at all (this video is rad 🙂) I think there’s a fine line between having compassion for conspiracy theorists, and doing a “fine ppl on both sides” dance. It’s important to distinguish the difference, and I think this video is a great example 👍🏾❤️ iBalls assemble! 👁
Not sure if you meant to reference Trumps speech with "fine people on both sides" But it's another great example of a leftwing political conspiracy theory
I think "conspiracy theory" is a misnomer. None of them are actually theories, due to the lack of a substantial body of supporting evidence. At best they're hypotheses, and at worst, unfalsifiable conjectures.
Unfortunately the term "theory" has a very different meaning for scientists and non-scientists. And I even see some scientists use the word theory when they actually should use hypothesis (I'm a scientist and I used to do that myself).
@@Lfppfs Thank you. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis but a model that embodies facts and has predictive power. Watching people debunk creationism years ago, helped me understand what a scientific theory is.
I really like the term "unfalsifiable conjectures", I'm gonna steal it for future use. :-) From my anecdotal experience with climate change deniers, it really is like that much of the time. They make statements that are just a form of Russell's Teapot and then they start screaming about "no proof". Well, no one can go around debunking your bullshit the whole time, and even if I did you won't care because it doesn't match your pre-established false narrative.
I believe what you’re trying to say is there is a difference between “scientific theory” and the general use of the word “theory”. In general use, theory and hypothesis are synonyms.
A year too late, but my good friend, arguably at one point best friend, has fallen down the rabbit hole to the point where I am contemplating, wether I should stop being friends with them. They are incredibly smart, graduating with a 1,0 Masters degree (it's the best possible mark that one can get in our college system) and did so while juggling multiple jobs at once. I have massive respect for them and they have been at one point my motivation to push further. However, ever since the demic started they have been going nuts. It started with gradual side remarks like being unhappy with the government, but this was a very common occurrence and not really surprising. They did a shoddy job on doing what they are paid for. Suddenly they started with talking about a worldwide conspiracy, that governments are trying to poison us, and everything in between. They shy away (at least right now) from more radical stuff, but I do think that they are susceptive to it as well. They call themselves System critic, have defended Putin and now declare that Aluminum is poising our brains and the government has their hands in as well. I have been understanding for the duration of the demic and so forth, but they have dived to so far into it that they are incapable of talking about any other topic. Even their dating life has turned into a selection process and focuses mostly on who can fit their specific mold of conspiracy. I would have been okay with it, if it wasn't for the unbearable amount of arrogance they are showing nowadays. This includes telling me off for watching art or book related stuff on yt, because I could spend my time on more productive stuff such watching these ridiculous Mind set videos about how to become a tiger or what type of personality they are, only to then try to convince me to provide my paintings to them, so they could turn them either into NFTs or do something with affiliate marketing. Because they need to earn money, so they could escape the oppression caused by the country. We are from a Western European country that could be called over privileged in most aspects. Make it make sense. They have turned from my most important friends into someone I cannot stand. I am sorry for this wall of text, I just had to get it off of my chest and no one really gets what I am talking about or has an idea what to do. Thank you for reading.
Hey this really seems terrible for you who loses an important friend but maybe also for your friend who knows that he might loose you because of their new beliefs. I think you maybe shouldn’t cut all your ties since you might be one of the last connections to “the real world”. Although it might be hard to sympathize because of their ignorance and arrogance maybe let’s not forget that the cause of their new beliefs could be great insecurities about life and managing that the world in some sense seems to fall apart and no one does something against it. So one might seek a way of explaining how things came to be like that. All out of desperation out of need for a feeling of understanding and security. I hope your friend can find a way out of this bubble and you don’t loose them. Also are you maybe from Germany? I experience similar cases in my surroundings.
@@hodelhophopp9386 Of course it is Germany. I am pretty sure that there is no other country as susceptible as Germany. I will try to talk to them first before I cut off anything and try to make a form of communication possible. I know why they react to it, which is the mother of all conspiracy theorists: insecurity. There is barely anyone as insecure as them out there. But I am not sure if they have a shred of respect for me left. The last few meetings have been rather uncomfortable with how disrespectful they have been. But still, I will try to talk to them first and go from there.
I hope you aren't friends with them anymore because, as respectfully as possible, they sound like they went off the deep end. Defending PUTIN?? Literally who does that? And NFTs use up so much energy it's HARMFUL. I know what the video says and all, but I also just believe there's times where you just need to walk away unfortunately. They could honestly be a danger to you, especially if they think objectively bad people like Putin can be defended.
Sorry, I'm sure someone has probably already mentioned this in the comments, but it's my understanding that the government did not give the Tuskegee participants syphilis, but rather did a whole host of (still incredibly unethical and abusive) things like not informing them of their diagnosis and/or lying to them that they were treating their syphilis when they weren't (?)
i think an underestimated issue is misslabeling who was involved. the government wasn't the one doing the experiment, they just let it happen for a long time. It may seem like basically the same thing, but these inconsistencies can mess up a theory or disprove yourself in the long run, plus it can be used as a tool to accuse something (like the government) of doing something that they didn't (even if they allowed it to happen or supported it)
The Tuskegee study is a great example of the vast sliding scale of how understandable it is that people would believe different conspiracy claims. The Tuskegee study was a genuine proven conspiracy for the reasons you described, particularly because they consistently lied to participants about their diagnosis even after effective treatments for syphilis (that is, antibiotics) were invented that should have outweighed any dubious scientific value the study may have had. The idea that they *infected* participants with syphilis, rather than recruiting people who already had it, is a conspiracy theory... but one that doesn't sound like much of a stretch if you have heard *anything else at all* about medical research from before the radical shift in research ethics in the 1970s that led to modern informed consent practices.
it was conducted by the CDC and Public Health Service, two government agencies. "As an incentive for participation in the study, the men were promised free medical care, but were deceived by the PHS, who never informed subjects of their diagnosis, despite the risk of infecting others, and the fact that the disease could lead to blindness, deafness, mental illness, heart disease, bone deterioration, the collapse of the central nervous system, and death." They were just told they had "bad blood" which could mean a lot of different, much less deadly things
Also, the UN has multiple nations with conflicting interests as well as cabals (USA/EU versus Russia/China as well as others) with competing interests, yet people think the UN is gonna be the World Government led by the Antichrist.
I'm the daughter of a life-long employee of the US government, and this is the basic argument my mom always made against government conspiracy theories. Any government conspiracy would require the perfect collusion and coordination of way, way too many people. One tiny slip - like a conspirator commenting to their spouse - and the whole thing collapses. Government workers aren't paid enough to keep their mouths shut.
you think their intention was ever to balance a budget? they are crooks who accumulate power in all forms for the sake of having it. if they "wanted to balance a book" they could, and would. there is no incentive at all to be honest when you have more power than god.
Its always so funny because a lot of time there is a grain of truth in the conspiracy theories but they usually blow right by what is actually happening and come to the most insane conclusions with no evidence
A few years back, I was falling into that rabbit hole and honestly, the thing that yanked me out of there, was shame. Shame, when I saw what ppl say and asking myself if I really want to be part of this group. I had to do the painful work of introspection on my own. Now I have to constantly remind myself that I'm not so different and fight hard to not slip into condescending realms when talking to or about conspiracy theorists. Thank you for this heartwarming video!
Shame is not always something we should avoid employing, it serves an important purpose. Shame was likewise the impetus for changing my political party affiliation in college. When I applied the skills I learned to write research papers (verifying source credibility, media literacy) I realized why Republicans and Libertarians were not taken seriously in academia. It wasn’t just snobbery, something I was prepared to face in college, I was the one who thought I knew everything without doing any of the work it takes to responsibly form political opinions and make decisions like which candidates to vote for. The “facts over feelings” bros were all feelings, no facts. As a woman, I was not oppositional to feminism as a smart subversive-I was detestable “pick me.” I had a lot to learn about misogyny, including my own internalized bigotry. The final straw was a class I took on Civil War Literature, where I learned the truth about the Civil War. I was deeply ashamed for saying things like _”actually,_ it was about states’ rights” so confidently in discussion with people I knew. Shame is productive, sometimes.
As someone who left extreme religion I appreciate that you show compassion to conspiracy theorists and those with extreme beliefs because most likely the reason they have those beliefs is because the were raised that way and emotionally manipulated/shamed to keep believing it.
@@IgnoreMeImWrong what? they are saying that some people are shamed and social pressure is used against them to discourage critical thinking and questioning what they have been told. how does victim shaming come into that at all (other than the fact that you saw the word shaming and ran with it lol)?
I love how you approach every topic with an open mind and a level of compassion that seems to be a breath of fresh air in the climate of social media of today
Couple sort of points: 1) I appreciate the fact you cite sources. Very good on you for that, so many of us can not be bothered. 2) Nice point that so many science education outlets are condescending, too often I need to include myself. If you want to terrify yourself, feel free to check out so many textbooks: the number of factual errors is horrifying - and exhausting to counter. 3) Currently not able to work as adjunct science instructor (intro Chemistry & Environmental Science), so I have run into this far too often. As a nominal scientist - I've got 50+ years of being a magnet for young earth creationists, chemtrail enthusiasts, flat earthers/moon landing denialists insisting that their model is "scientific" and therefor correct. Sorry - I get really tired of facing such or a regular basis when I have a classroom. 4) I wonder if you consider doing a piece on presentations something. One school I enjoyed working at emphasized presentations - which turned into a nightmare many times. Best example was a presentation on Tsunamis, which turned super convincing on a clip from a End Times movie, little child looking out the back car window at a 1km wave front about to drown the family. Sorry - that isn't science, it was not useful information about a tsunami, it was just marketing saying tsunamis are bad (as in Satan bad, not destructive of human affairs bad) Anyway - basically excellent content in a very professional presentation - thankyou
You did a good job of offering helpful advice *without* pretending that somehow this is an easy or simple problem to deal with, especially when so many people are literally dying as a result of conspiracy theories about Covid and geopolitical realities. We want to be compassionate and give people time but there are also lives at stake, so there is a tension between best practices and what seems morally acceptable. Most of the experts who address this issue seem to ignore that.
Can you tell me which conspiracy theories have cost lives regarding covid? I know that there are ridiculous stories like the jab being 'safe and effective', and there are others such as there are no early treatments that work. Do you have any others to add?
I needed this video. We can be so opened minded that we dismiss anyone who isn't "woke". Losing the holier than thou attitude and treating opposing views with respect is another method to try. A good movement requires a variety of tactics.
@@shodan6401 agreed. different interpretations of a given fact are fine and good, but denying that the given fact is even a fact is when I disregard your opinion.
The fact that treating others respectfully within the sphere of debate requires a condescending video manual might be the biggest evidence we need for a conspiracy of clueless communism.
@@maebandy yea respect is a two way street, and it' something that's earned. The kind of people who conspiracy theories do so because they want to feel like they know better than other people, and they do so aggressively while pretending to have intellectual cred they didn't earn. It's very difficult to respect obviously selfish people that you can't emphasize with.
Sometimes when I notice that big amount of people have a worldview opposed to mine and that I found them obviously wrong, I feel very tempted in thinking they were manipulated by a conspiracy that is moving the strings. ... but then I remember they tend to believe something similar about people like myself. It's easy to just make up a conspiracy to invalidate other people's opinions.
There is one valid thing, which is when there is actual evidence of a conspiracy. An example of such is that we know thanks to a whistleblower and leaked emails that right wing institutions have been working together to all spread the same lies about trans people. Their worldview is opposed to mine and they are obviously wrong- existing scientific papers and studies can disprove them in a heartbeat- but there is actually an ongoing conspiracy. We have seen the emails.
@@hangfire5944 they don't wanna hear it, they say flat earther in all these comments cause they don't want to acknowledge all the disclosed and declassified cia ops on the people that would poke holes in their world view
Excellent work! I very much like your thoughtfulness in presentation. Conspiracy Theories are born of a triad of fear, doubt, and curiosity. Fear and doubt are obvious, whereas curiosity is often forgotten as many see theorists as seeking easy answers to complicated or rather chaotic things. Skepticism of any system is fine, it's when you become blind to the possibility that those presenting the common thread may be right that it becomes a problem. The common story is not always right, but assuming it is always wrong is also deeply flawed.
For me, the biggest problem was how much the involvement of parents in conspiracy theories reflected on me. And I can't just stop talking to them. And I can’t stop hearing what they have been forcibly pouring into my ears for several years. Believing in their theories they eventually began to embody them on us, on their children and with the current restrictions they have placed on us, I feel like my life is a bit ruined.
This video deserves a lot more views. This individual level advice is so important as conspiracy ideologies become ever more extreme and damaging to individuals on all sides. Thanks for your work!
Not as damaging as real conspiracy in the same right.... but the real situation is, if you limit thier speech, and deny people the choice to decide what they believe, it creates a funnel of information guided and suppressed toward any ends by the powers that hold them..... this video was not taken down, her speech was not limited, and you're basically saying that its good that your information can be surpressed because you cant make an informed decision, you want someone to do it for you?
A normal person may accept the possibility of a conspiracy because they recognize flaws in the official record of events and acknowledge that there could exist other explanations. The normal person accepts that "they don't know" the true facts and are not definitive about the event. The conspiracy theorist outright rejects the official record of the events and is totally convinced, without factual evidence, that the official record is a lie. They have fully accepted that one of the other possible explanations for the event is true and beyond question. It is the conspiracy theorists insistence that they are right and they have the true answer is what pisses off normal people.
Yes, conspiracy theorists can be infuriating. Absolutely. Unfortunately, blowing up at them may push them farther away. You are not obliged to hold back your frustration, but it is helpful to do so if your goal is to maximize the chance that they will let go of their belief.
You missed a group: those who will not question the official or accepted social narrative even when there are glaring holes in concept or issue being discussed. This is the vast majority of people. Those who believed the invasion of Iraq was needed, those who believed in forced sterilization, those who believed in segregation, those who believed the unvaccinated needed to be exterminated, those who believed in forced lobotomies, those who believed in Indian Residential schools, those who believed in Japanese internment, those who believed in seizing babies from unwed mother's, those who believed in McArthyism, those who believed in prohibition, those who believed in criminalization of marijuana, those who supported the Vietnam War, those who supported shutting down the economy for 2 years, ....well, the list is almost endless, but you get the point. Of note, the term "conspiracy theorist", "far right", "alt right", Trump Supporter", "N@zi", etc. now means "someone who doesn't think exactly like me".
@@ickster23Some people will always have different opinions and apply a different standard of evidence to evaluate information. I am absolutely against the use of faith, since it is a belief based without verifiable, demonstrable and repeatable evidence. Faith should never be admired or rewarded. The discipline of epistemology is rarely or never taught in the education system.
@@ickster23 hindsight is 2020... virtually everyone was pro eugenics before people were shown how grisly the logical conclusion of it was for instance...its great to go against these terrible things in history, but much easier to see they were terrible now that we know better
I was listening to this at work while cleaning bathrooms and got to the end of it and. i got an ad for a miracle cure sound frequency, and i didnt realize it was an ad bc i didn’t pull out my phone. I kept thinking “this is a really good joke to tack onto the end of a video about conspiracies” and then i pulled out my phone and saw it was an actual ad. oh my god
It's crazy to see how quickly the quality of the video production has grown. The content is good, and the videos quickly matched the quality of the content.
Amazing video. I work in construction so there's a lot to try to sift through. I loved your pro-tip. A couple things I have found help in beyond what you've been doing is to always start on anything I can agree with. And I agree that you can't abide stuff that is harmful, but you can agree upfront to disagree. It doesn't shut down discourse but it also doesn't roll over and allow them to have the default notion that they are right. Another thing is to acknowledge that we are being made to be divided intentionally and joke that the last thing 'they' want is for us to have a real conversation.
Respect when having a discussion is always important but also remember to be really careful if the person you are discussing with could be dangerous! I once had a discussion with a person who was against free abortion. Our discussion ended when he tried to stab me
While I do sympathize with conspiracy theorists, it hurts to hear some people think the Boston Marathon Bombing wasn't real. One of my classmates was the cousin of the little boy who died, and I remember watching the family mourn and him being absent from school for the funeral. It was a genuinely formative moment for me, and I also feel so much for my friend who lost a relative.
It is so easy to prove that it was staged. I can tell you how and where to easily get the New Zealand Christ Church mass shoestring 17 minute vid. Once you watch that ridiculously/poorly staged event you will never be able to become unconscious to the truth that these events are staged.
Great video. Really covers a lot of the bases that seem to get missed in "how to combat conspiracism" videos. From personal experience, I'd argue that it's pointless to even entertain the conspiracy arguments until you've built up a rapport. Conspiracy theories are built on a foundation of fear and mistrust. Until the person feels like they can not only trust but rely on you, their shields are up and they will pivot. The insidious part is seeing someone you are close to fall into these things. It makes it very difficult to step back and be somewhat objective. In some respects it's easier to build a rapport with an acquaintance to argue them out of a conspiracy theory than it is with a close loved one. There's less investment and fewer preconceptions about who a person "really is". That said, given that the forces of capital have a vested interest in maintaining the systems which encourage conspiracism, I'm worried that things are only going to get worse for a while.
Over the past six-ish years, I've been watching my family fall deeper and deeper into different conspiracies, and it......**hurts**. My oldest sister has always LOVED thinking about all of that, and i do have to mention that she believed in simulation theory (before it was even called that) like......20+ years ago as a kid, just because she thought like that. She's gone REALLY far down some holes, though, and while she hasn't said anything outright hateful--she's ALWAYS prioritized curiosity over hate *and* understanding that everyone is different--she's..... She's not even butting up against flat-out Nazi shit, she's sitting on it. She's got her hands on the latch. She refuses all vaccines and pulled her kids from school because of mask mandates; she believes in the illuminati; she believes in the whole adrenachrome (sp?) thing; AND she's pulling the rest of my family down into it. They talk about the Mandela effect as if it's a real thing; I've noticed they're WAY faster to believe hateful ideas pushed by conservative platforms (transness is a mental illness and all trans women are predators are two of the worst); they've also just become.....so much less sympathetic to other humans. I understand *how* they got there, though, so I'll spend four to five hours AT A STRETCH arguing to try and make them understand why those beliefs are legitimately dangerous. They nod and say they get it, and then the next week they're saying all the same things again, like we never even talked. And while my oldest sister hasn't, some of the rest of my family has said some unbelievably hateful, dangerous shit--"don't align yourself with the outsider," "AIDS didn't happen," "i want to personally kill every person who tries to get an abortion," "you need to conserve your cultural legacy (talking about mixed couples"..... What..... Where...... Where do you even START. I have to be so fucking careful because if i try to explain how deeply connected all of those are to bigotry, white supremacy, fascism, and genocide, they'll shut down immediately AND get furious that I'm "implying" they want any of those things. I'm not even just wearing kid gloves when i talk to them, I'm touching them through seventeen pairs of oven mitts. The only person i think I've had any kind of luck with WAS my oldest sister. I'll always hear conspiracy theories out--i LOVE learning about wild shit, i always have--but i make it super clear to her that I'm interested in it ***as a story*** and i can't get into it if the people I'm talking to don't also understand it ***as a story***. I was explaining that again, and then because it was obvious I was REALLY frustrated, i said that i think conspiracy theories are modern day fairy tales, and fairy tales are warnings. You're SUPPOSED to listen to them, you're supposed to listen about little red riding hood or the three little pigs, and then go on to make sure no one is left out in the cold in a dangerous situation, or know what warning flags turn someone from good Samaritan to predator. You're not supposed to think there are wolves putting on nightgowns and having grown adults pulled intact and unharmed from their stomachs. When you hear about mole people, you SHOULD start to wonder why a whole group of people would want--or need--to live off the grid, and try to sympathize. When you hear about flat earth, you SHOULD take that as an inlet for regularly interrogating your own beliefs to make sure they're not doing harm and you still align with them. You're not supposed to literally fucking belief in half-human hybrids stealing your food that you need to look out for, or that you could walk off the edge of the planet. And THEN i explained how so many of those misinterpreted fairy tales were weaponized to perpetrate and kill people--how outsiders in society are always transformed into witches stealing your children or monsters eating them--as justification to kill them. Jewish people, Romani people, women, disabled people, people of color around the world, indigenous people... And i get SUPER fucking frustrated because that's not the point. Folktales, fairy tales, old wives' tales, they were passed down to protect and keep safe, in a language people could understand because no one gets something if you tell them outright. I mentioned the war story "Truths" about how sometimes fake stories tell things more honestly than direct retellings, or how Jesus needed to tell parables for people to understand what he was saying, even though he'd been really upfront with everything. And then, THEN, F I N A L L Y-- I said "It's like in The Last Unicorn, with the two horns so people knew that she was real." And my sister said, "They had to put a fake horn on a real unicorn so people knew what they were looking at." And i went YES!!! YES THAT EXACTLY. That's why i get frustrated with conspiracy theories--they're fairy tales meant to help, but because people are getting caught up on taking it literally, they completely miss the point. And she got quiet and the conversation ended. I don't know if it'll have any long-term benefits--she's still super deep in it--but it felt like the first time in an EXTREMELY LONG TIME I've had any kind of breakthrough with any of them. I guess i wanted to mention it in case it would help, or people need hope when they're dealing with this. Watching your loved ones slip out of your fingers right before your eyes is unbelievably fucking painful, and it's hard to cope with if you don't have hope they'll come out of it.
Unfortunately the last few years have brought about a confluence of all the rabbit holes, I'm sure it's now possible to have all manner of combined self radicalised reactionaries. The parallels with religious nuttery are quite astonishing, you've probably been subjected to many a half hour diatribe, unable to interject, as the bullshit and 'evidence' flies by. Belief is little more than a sensation, but can have a tenacious grip on a person, it's the ultimate product though created from nothing more than hot air and salesmanship. Hang in there you're on the right track, study your subject and choose your times, but most of all protect your own brain. Regards from the Highlands of Scotland
This is such an interesting and helpful story you've shared. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out. I need to reread a few times bc there's so much good thoughtfulness in it 🙏🏽
Awww boo hoo. So what happened to diversity, inclusivity, kindness, tolerance, and all those other socialist buzzwords? Perhaps it is you who are doing the hurt with your closed mind and intolerance?
@@martinharris5017 Define Socialism for me. And then go look up *Karl Popper's Paradox of Intolerance.* There is no need to tolerate people like you. We're done being nice to bigots and idiots. Get your shit together or be prepared to be berated. 😘
Thank you for approaching this subject with kindness. It's easy to be condescending to or make fun of conspiracy theorists when they are strangers or acquaintances, it becomes difficult when it becomes a family member or friend that you care for.
I believed in the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory. I had seen The Life of Adam, I was in high school, and I had just not wanted to believe that the event happened. It scared me that someone could just go and do that, and the excuse, that it didn't happen, that it was just a plot by the left to try and push through gun control legislation, that made me able to dismiss my initial fears, and I very much hoped that the conspiracy was true, and for it to succeed, I was and still am in favor of heavily restrictive gun ownership legislation. I didn't go and try to spread the belief, I didn't harass the families into coming out with it, after all, if it came out the plot would be less likely to succeed, and I thought that if the conspiracy was not real, then the harassment was unforgivable. What finally brought me out of it, was when the 2017 Las Vegas shooting happened, and I heard the exact same arguments about this new shooting, and still no gun control legislation was pushed through. The plot just wasn't happening, the cabal of crisis actors, false flag planners, all these people working hard to stage incidents to push through protective legislation, it wasn't real. When I had believed Sandy Hook never happened, I don't think anything someone said could have convinced me otherwise, but now I just look back and think "How was I so stupid and insensitive to believe that was fake?", and it was down to my fear of random death caused by someone just deciding one day that was the day they were going to shoot someone. After I had come out of it, I actually got really interested in looking into conspiracy theories, and trying to understand them, in case someone I cared about fell into one, so I could try and help them escape from it, and from doing that I know how no matter how many facts you give to someone, unless they can prove it for themselves, it won't do anything. It is often said that facts don't care about your feelings, using as a way of dismissing someone without considering their position or even what the facts are, but in the mind of someone who has fallen for a conspiracy theory, their feelings oftentimes don't care about the facts, and that is something most people trying to make debunking efforts don't fully understand, and in this video I think you perfectly captured that aspect. The most important way to try and pull someone out is to go into it with a want to understand them, not to deny them.
Thank you so much for sharing your story! I also want to add that my next two videos (out in March) are going to be about "evidence" and I'm going to take two different (but related) looks at the "Facts don't care about your feelings" schtick. The second video is going to be about how "facts" don't always work when trying to change people's minds, and my current working title is literally "Feelings don't care about your facts". So, we're definitely on the same wavelength, there, friend!
Great points. One nuance I'd like to add though is if we are being intellectually honest, we cannot automatically assume all "conspiracy theories" are bunk. However, starting with a null hypothesis of "all conspiracy theories are bunk" and testing this hypothesis with evidence, we can come to a more accurate view of the world (as most of the conspiracies would fail when examined with evidence).
You should take that up with the CIA. They're the one's that coined the term for " things that have too much evidence " you don't have to take me at face value, do your own research.
Actually the belief that the interests of the bourgeois are in direct contradiction to the interests of the proletariat is neither a conspiracy (since the rich are not conspiring among themselves, there are cliques but overall there are many factions even within their own class) nor a theory (it is literally a material observable fact) so I feel like considering it as such to make the argument is not a good call.
Oh, no, the conspiracy theory is that the 1% are deliberately coordinating to make things shittier for the 99%. In truth they are not, they each act in their own interest, with the same result.
@@Orlandofurioso95 fair enough but no Marxist worth their name would ever believe that the 1% have a secret cabal from which they control everyone. Even Bernie who is not a marxist believes that.
@@Orlandofurioso95 i wouldnt say each of them work in their own interest. there are definitely religious factions that work together to achieve power maintenance through oppression. its not every man for himself in the 1% or there would never be government bailouts/subsidies for big corporations. it is mostly familial and religious/race based factions. but there is definitely not an every man for himself mentality among the 1% when you look at the way they operate in reality..
I have found that people believe in them because: A) It makes them feel like they know something others don't B) It gives them a sense of community with other believers C) It gives them a sense of purpose People are relatively simple creatures. :)
So, are you not sure about the idea that people belief in conspiracy theories because the truth is uncomfortable or unbelievable and they are seeking a more comfortable conclusion so that their experience seems real? I’m asking because you left it out of your reason list. If you don’t believe this is a reason people believe conspiracy theories, please tell me why if you don’t mind.
This is an amazing video because it treats conspiracy theorists like human beings worthy of understanding and respect just like the rest of us, and it shows that we aren’t exactly immune to this kind of thinking!
I really appreciate this video, thank you. This is shameful to admit because I like to think of myself as a pretty smart person but it's so easy to fall into these theories when there's something pulling you in. I've struggled with an eating disorder for most of my life and at its worst, I saw a lot of "breatharian" content online and it caught my interest. To most people, the whole idea would sound absolutely coconuts, but for me, when I watch stories of people who fell prey to that cult, it's "there but for the grace of God" because that honestly could have been me so easily. I'm not saying this to excuse anyone, especially people who push straight-up hateful conspiracy theories and hurt people, but we're all susceptible to conspiracy thinking.
I agree. The ability to reason things well in the hands of a person that really wants to believe in something will end up with emotionally driven choices being framed as rational ones. Which leads to a lot of...complications.
That's where I disagree. We are NOT all susceptible to "conspiracy thinking". If I hear or read something that doesn't sound right, I educate myself. When this whole Obama birth certificate thing blew up, I saw the controversy make front page news and I had no idea what was going on. So, off I went to learn what was the deal. Within five minutes I realized that there was no controversy. I said to myself, "Oh, this is just some straight-up racist bullshit." That's how I approach life and that's how I process new information. It's easy and it doesn't cost a cent. Sites like NPR, PBS and the BBC - all free and utterly trustworthy. There is no rabbit hole for facts. Truth is not arbitrary.
I've found that many people don't really have like hard fast, identity creating relationships to the consipracies they believe. Like I've met people that believe there was a lot of government involvement on 911, but they don't really care that much, so when I try to ask them about it, they admit they don't really know much, but they're always like "I mean, do you REALLY believe this, this and this is just a coincidence?" and I'm like "yeah..." and they look at me like I'm gullible. But they don't really care enough to defend it, they don't have strong opinions about what actually IS there, but about what ISN'T the case. It seems to be more about not accepting the more random and unexplainable aspects of society and considering there HAS to be some kind of malicious intent behind it. That's my experience, at least.
@@ericrenz6074 And then all the reports from established government and nongovernment agencies that say the fire did cause the collapse of WTC7. This is widely accepted and proven to be true.
"Secret knowledge" can lead to a ego-based messianic endorphin rush. This is how fear and anger can become addictive - when "truth" gets you high and makes you feel elite and superior. A compensation for low esteem, feelings of powerlessness, existential terror? Maybe...
I'm coming to the party late, and don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I have seen an extremely effective method called "Street Epistemology," where you respectfully challenge how someone comes to believe what they believe and you don't even address what it is or why, but how reliable their method is of determining what they believe to be true.
@@Kefemu There is an entire TH-cam channel by a guy who spends a lot of his time doing this whose name is Anthony Magnabosco. I don't know of any research on its effectiveness, but it sure can make a difference if people come to the conversation genuinely and honestly.
@@ericrenz6074 Yes. Peter Boghossian wrote a very insightful book about questioning not the conclusions people come to, nor the way they came to them, but the methods that they used and the reliability of those methods of coming to conclusions that are true.
To explain how Conspiracy Theorists are intelligent I would generally compare with Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius Look at everything Wile E. Coyote has ever done. That shit required a LOT of thought to do that stupid stuff--well, sans his awesome Mat Paintings of Tunnels. I'm so glad that more people are able to recognise how great of a skilled painter Wile E. Coyote really is... I mean, not only making a Mat Painting--but a REALLY REALLY good one... and on the side of a cliff Everything Wile E. Coyote has a fatal flaw--but he spends so much time figuring out if he could do something, that he never asked if he "SHOULD do it". To paraphrase Jeff Goldbloom a little bit there It essentially is a form of Intelligence trap, where the person's own intelligence KEEPS them stuck. It is a common method Cults use to get members stuck in them. Rather than having an outside force keep them stuck in... they make it so their own mind is spinning its wheels and doing donuts. Which looks impressive--and damned feels good when you are doing it--but it isn't particularly good for your car... brain... car-brain A good example of the Wile E. Coyote Supergenius effect would be Terry Davis. Dood is super freaking smart--and super capable... but he believes a lot of really dumb stuff. It isn't because he is dumb... it is because he is intelligent enough to justify these dumb ideas. At least to himself. Creating all kinds of weird tales--all of which are to convince himself But... more people need to comprehend the Wile E. Coyote Supergenius effect
To add to this a bit: Another thing about Wile E. Coyote's genius is that it overlooks solutions that don't engage his genius, and he kind of ignores the obvious-but-simple solutions to his problems. If his problem is that he's hungry, if he's smart enough to order and assemble 3 thousand ACME devices to try and fail to catch the Roadrunner, he can also put in an order for a pizza to be delivered, ya know? But he's so laser-focused on catching the Roadrunner that the idea of even just setting his sights on easier prey eludes him. It's part of why I think that getting people to realize they should be wary of straying from their lanes of expertise; I see this happen in the sciences a lot where an admittedly smart person will look at a problem that experts in the field have been trying to solve for a long time, and think they'll do it in a week. Not to say that sometimes a new perspective isn't what's needed to crack a problem, it often is, but at the same time knowing when you're out of your depth is a crucial skill that I think is sometimes overlooked by a lot of people.
@@stevencowan37 its "obvious and simple" not "obvious but simple". Simplicity and obviousness are directly related, so phrasing them as being contrary to each other is incorrect.
Unless you are talking about a different Terry Davis (if so pls disregard), the reason why he believed the wildest and crazy things is that he was a Paranoid Schizophrenic and was deeply mentally disturbed. There was no subtle psychological trap comparable to a character in a kids cartoon. He was legitimately deranged and his perception of reality was fundamentally warped due to his mental illness, not that he was very smart and used his intelligence to justify his beleifs. Like how CIA agents glow in the dark for example or that God was telling him to make an operating system so he could communicate with Terry.
I would honestly contest that a bit. It's not that they're super smart or anything as much as it's that they're gullible with a lot of the Dunning Krueger effect going on. Which is a type of curve where having some knowledge makes you very confident, but the more knowledgeable someone is the less confident they are until they hit the point of being an expert and their confidence goes back up. Like for example, say you know nothing about rocket science. I wouldn't be confident speaking of something I don't know. Now let's say I'm like one of these Flat Earthers that watch rocket videos all day. In this scenario, I wouldn't know a huge load about how rockets work, but because I watch all this footage I'm going to at least think I know how things work and that's where you get claims that astronauts have bubbles coming out of their helmets and stuff because they're in a pool. As I get more well learned on the topic I'd eventually realize that the things in the footage aren't bubbles, but I wouldn't immediately know what they are, necessarily. And then I'd eventually hit a point where I'm familiar enough with space phenomenon to realize that the things people are pointing out are ice crystals breaking off, because moisture attached to the suits freezes in space and just floats away when it's disturbed. With Conspiracy Theorists, they're basically all somewhere in the second or early third stage of this, they know that there are specific phenomena happening in videos that show visual distortion or what seems to be a sun shrinking as it sets, and that knowledge supports a conclusion they have in their minds that these things mean the Earth has to be flat. But because they don't actually understand the full mechanics of refraction or how these things really work, they just settle into an alternate explanation that seems to fit and go from there. And because they're not looking deeper into the reality of the situation, it means that they'll never really progress to the point of actually getting what's happening unless someone else explains it to them or pushes them in the right direction in just the right way. I don't think this idea that theorists are really clever in a different way is really accurate because what you're seeing isn't really the product of any individual person's false assumptions, it's all the false assumptions of a community coming together to form one person's mindset as they pick up and ignore what they feels works and doesn't work about the theory. I mean, again, just look at Flat Earth, right? You'll hear the same debunked arguments time and time again because all of these people are just spreading the same ideas to each other without really considering other possible options or even the broader ramifications of their claims. There's a reason why Flat Earthers keep talking about water sticking to a spinning ball even though the argument is kind-of nonsense. It's because the demonstration of someone spinning a ball really fast to fling water off of it has become a meme in the community, as in an ACTUAL meme, like an idea that spreads across a group as a sort-of mental trope that gets repurposed and recycled as time goes on. It just takes two seconds to realize why this is a bad scale model test for a planet, but because people have seen it and talk about it a lot, that sells people on the idea that this is somehow a super convincing idea even though it's completely illogical as a point.
@@dracocrusher Knowledge and Intelligence are not the same thing. You can have knowledge and no intelligence... and you can have intelligence without having knowledge So--that long rant you did... is fucking wrong, because you started off an an incorrect axiom that you extrapolated from Also... Logic and Intelligence are NOT the same thing. Logic is a rigorous skill set that you can apply yourself towards. The difference is like the difference between martial arts knowledge and raw brute strength Essentially... you are conflating some things as HAVING to have to be combined... that honestly... no, they don't have to be combined--and generally you won't see them combined often Because of this forced combination of things that are merely inclined to be located in the same room at times... you've created a messed up understanding of the situation present
@@QTwoSixno she convinced her with data and empirical evidence. You fail to see that you are the one who is brainwashed, you have no evidence that the vaccine is unsafe, just claims
Tbh the main reason I fell into conspiracies (back in 2012) was drugs and mental illness lol. I’m not discounting the other reasons at all though, this is a super interesting topic! I like your positive outlook and I strongly believe in respect as well I think conspiracy theories stop being okay when they hurt others or come from hatred/prejudice.
Back when I was 12-13, my history class had to engage in a little bit of conspiracy theory. We were studying the JFK assassination and basically trying to figure out possible explanations that weren’t the official one. Some of them were pretty outlandish too. I enjoyed it too, mostly with the aspect of what was basically creative deduction from information that attempts to push you towards a specific answer.
27:51 *Thank you for this.* Too many times I've had people I know who try to argue with conspiracy theorists with...completely wrong information. To them they thought they "knew" the truth but then they would repeat stuff that's completely untrue or at the very least only half-true and suddenly get surprised when the conspiracy theorist in question calls them out on it. To them, having knowledge was more akin to a sport where some people were just BETTER than others at having information. That would lead them down their own rabbit holes that, while they had more truth to them than "the other side," still falls under the same umbrella as being desperate for answers and not fully understanding or realizing the truth. At least, the closest we can come to a truth.
"...in the age of the internet, good ideas often get drowned out by theatrics. Memes that sound good will always be more convincing than well-reasoned but boring or heavy-handed arguments." Maybe that's why people like DeGrasse Tyson or groups like IFLS act the way they do, employing theatrics and memes to make their points.
She does a good job of making sure that there is no way to be seen as attacking or aggressive. You have to talk to these people like you're trying to calm a skiddish horse
Ugh I so wish this would work on my mom >< she is constantly reading “science” and therefore “knows” more than I do, we have an understanding at this point to not talk about it but she isn’t very good at talking about anything else and has had the conspiracy mindset since before I was born
Same with my mom. She loves to be contrary and isn't really on either side of left or right conspiracies. She's definitely "smarter" than me, but she uses it to reinforce whatever she wants to believe in. She'll overwhelm me with "evidence" that I have no time to go though when I'm just a busy working mom, and she has the advantage of being retired and having all the free time in the world. I think she just wants to feel special, so I'm just trying to give her more attention that has nothing to do with politics.
From what I've seen, most conspiracy theorists suffer from a combination of a victim complex and lack of scientific literacy. If you explain why you believe that, say, vaccines don't cause Autism, and then ask them why they do believe it, you might get somewhere. But also keep in mind that even when explaining your points clearly and respectfully, you might still get treated like a naïve child by the conspiracy theorist. Some of them are like that. Some of them may resort to petty insults (I've seen this from both conspiracy theorists and from the people arguing with them). You've got a 50-50, maybe 60-40 shot of them actually listening to your point of view (assuming that you fairly listened to their point of view). I'm stuck with ones who assume they know better than me just because they're older and don't really listen when I try to explain scientific phenomena that they don't understand. But I think there's hope for other people to see that maybe the Earth is round, and vaccines don't cause Autism, covid is real, and the covid vaccine isn't a mind control device.
@@hazukifujiwara6023 Yeah, definitely some of that too. A lot of times, conspiracy theories come from fear (usually fear of the future or the unknown).
Scientically speaking, Vaccines themselves don't cause Autism. They however can cause a Fever, which can lead to Autism. But the Numbers are so insignificant, that it doesn't even matter.
Why the f*** would you care about contrapoints real name Just call her by a screen name it's a lot easier for people to know It's the name she adopted for her screen persona
@@anarchomando7707 Jesus dude, what if you hadn't known her channel name either? Ya she's a little tiny bit more widely recognizable that way but what if you'd never heard of her at all? You would've still had to look her up. Natalie is her name, we'll call her Natalie if we want to, the world doesn't revolve around you and your preferences.
@@anarchomando7707 I mean, you just open a browser tab, go on Google if it hasn't popped up already, type the name into the search bar, and the rest sort of falls into place. It's just a few seconds and the bodily exertion of moving a few fingers to click a screen and type some letters on a keyboard.
I think calling conspiracy theories conspiracy theories is kind of a misnomer. They don’t meet the bar of standing up to peer scrutiny. I think conspiracy hypotheses is more applicable
You're an asshole, because so many of them do hold the water they claim. But you tell yourself that. Guessing that you already took the shot and will follow the path they give you to the end you are leading yourself to an early grave, then we don't have to listen to you anymore. Nice.
@@im3phirebird81 No, many of them don't hold up to any scrutiny. Most conspiracy theories are conjectures at best. Most conspiracies theories don't have a big enough body of evidence to even be considered a theory. Just a group of people who all believe the same thing, without being able to prove any of it. Sounds like religion.
@@Trve_Kvlt "No, many of them don't hold up to any scrutiny." Whatever you tell yourself to sleep better at night. Do it while you can. It's gonna get ver uncomfy soon. In the last year alone so many conspiracies have come true. But some people just want to keep sleeping until they're hit with a bat for an unpleasant awakening. You do you. Edit: If you really can not see what is actually happening in the current scenario we are in you are either dumb or a ghoul. Both possibilities are gonna end with your demise.
@@im3phirebird81 “your don’t believe me so your going to demise 😭 my conspiracy theory are true the moon is made of cheese and if you don’t believe me your a satan” that’s exactly how you sound and it’s sad.
I've made a habit of talking to conspiracy theorists. I start out just by being receptive and asking questions to try and figure out the weirdest stuff they believe, then once I think I have a good idea I start to speak with total confidence of shit i just made up to try to make their beliefs even more cursed.
I love your presentation style. You are so kind and honest and well, easy to trust. I really hope that TH-cam becomes something that really grows for you. You remind me a lot of PhilosophyTube and My Little Thought Tree. I absolutely adore your content. Also, your acting is fun. Alternate Timeline You was an awesome idea!
I'm so glad you started making videos. You bring this smart and kind perspective that is sorely missing from current TH-cam discourse. Also, your poetry videos are 🔥.
I think the first solution: "Don't try to change their mind" is underrated. Most conspiracy theories are benign and you can clearly respect and interact with people who do believe them. Not all, not saying you should expose your kids to anti-vaxxer parties.
Censorship of dissent is the biggest cause of conspiracy theories. When truth is blocked, people have to choose between accepting establishment lies and creating their own lies. Real info dies and paranoia thrives.
14:38 minor point, but a recent unredacted section of, I think I was his grand jury material, says that Steve Bannon did infact give internal polling data from the trump campaign to a contact for a Russian oligarch. Meaning this is no longer theory, it's just fact. I still take your point. Just wanted to leave this minor note. Mostly to make myself feel better.
Thank you for pointing that out. The real question is whether or not interference had any real or measurable effect on the outcome of the election. If you read the report and following trials, it appears interference was at least attempted. Its good to be balanced, but we should always be careful of the 'both sides' pitfall some of us fall into.
Any kind of corporate collision like a cartel is a conspiracy. So is it when corporate heads and politicians meet and discuss things about public policy. They actually happen a lot, just not nearly as far-reaching as people think.
I have been a physicist for over 50 years, and to be successful, you have to challenge and analyze all your ideas in a serious way. You have all sorts of great ideas, and almost all of them are wrong in one way or another, so you have to keep thinking and correcting your world view to get to a successful model. The critical part of this is that you have to give up unsuccessful ideas quickly and move on. When I see people who get some ideas and stick with it forever in the face of all challenges, I see a sort of mental weakness and dysfunction. One of the most charming things about Nature is that she does not care what you think or believe. It is your job to adjust you world view to conform to reality.
This is so in some cases. IIRC, many years ago the head of the British Flat Earth Society openly admitted he did not believe it. And also said he had also never lost a debate. Also, I've heard it claimed that at one point the readership of The Fortean Times was split amongst people that believed the nonsense and those who treated it as an in joke.
Great clip, Zoe! I believed all conspiracies, mentally and emotionally draining. I stopped watching and reading the news as well as media misinformation. Now I just read headlines devoting time for self development. It does wonders for the soul! 👏👍
in high school i was talking about the electoral college the way it sways power in elections, and that the politicians in control have some power over what's passed and who's chosen for leadership roles and a gym teacher (just happened to be in the room) asked me "do you identify as a conspiracy theorist?" as a jab at a 16 year old trying to have a discussion with him.
Loved the video personally. Kinda new to the channel, the only other one I watched being the Grammarly one, but I love the content. The skit on this one was particularly entertaining to watch. :) But back to the topic at hand. I feel that you hit the nail right on the head. Most conspiracy theorists are not silly or stupid at all. I confess, in my low times, I have been somewhat rude to them (all of this is with respect to the Flat Earth Society), but on second thought, it is true that they do have some of the qualities which make the best scientists, but are unfortunately misguided. Let's just take the Flat Earth (abbreviating it to FE :P) people. How many of us "Round Earthers" actually believe in the roundness on the Earth not because we read it somewhere, but because we actually thought hard about it? FE people, on the other hand actually try to come to another conclusion (albeit a wrong one) based on thought experiments, or trusting their eyes, or so on. If anything, FErs have the ability to be curious, which many of us have taken for granted. And I also have been through the FE forums myself out of curiosity. Turns out, they did go through huge lengths to build their models. It's not jargon; you would notice things amiss if you really scrutinize, but on the surface, it reads like plausible literature if you do not go in with a bias in the first place. Which is exactly why it is more important to engage them than rebuke them. If they went this far to establish their theory, they would (usually) be also willing to listen to criticism. Not, say, NASA images, because they distrust NASA. But other, simpler sources and events, which cannot be affected by NASA or such organizations in general. Like say, water swirling in a different direction in the two hemispheres. Of course there are pricks in the community (all communities have them) who are just there to deny all evidence you provide to them if it does not agree with their ideas. But, if you instead pay your attention to those who ARE willing to listen, these people would then be able to convince the aforementioned 'pricks' because now, they are faced with people who come from a closer community than you do, and have a greater bond of trust. Long story short, a lot of this could be avoided by being engaging in your education. Just telling kids facts, but not following up on them is counterproductive, because then they cannot argue if someone suggests otherwise, and thus remain prone to such conspiracy theories in the first place. Another example of this from a personal experience is about people demonizing the Covid-19 vaccine, citing that most of the people who took the shots later tested positive for the virus. If you tell people that vaccines will help you, but not how they help, this is expected (for people interested, vaccines emulate a non-lethal version of the pathogen, tricking your body into thinking that you have been infected. Thus the body prepares to fight it off, and this gets memorized by your body, so that if you do catch the real deal, the body does not need to go through the whole preparation phase; it will get to work right away as it knows what to do already, so it'll be effective in fighting from the beginning. Does this mean you are invincible? Not really. Vaccines improve the reaction time, but does not make your body a Virus Terminator. Why is this important? Because as vaccines trick your body into thinking you've been infected, they also trick the tests into thinking you have the virus, thus resulting in a false positive) Long comment. But that's characteristic of me, going on an internet rant in the comment section :P. Stay smiling folks!
I'm kinda disappointed with the presentation here implying that all conspiracy theories are equally valid. Some theories have a great deal more evidence than others, they aren’t all the same thing.
@@williamjenkins4913 she literally said that we all are by the actual defitnion and how she had problems with that definition but more with the negative connotations with the term.
This is a great video, but it occurred to me when you said (paraphrasing) "these are curious critical thinkers who run experiments" that none of the conspiracy theorists I know fit that description. None of them are flat earthers, all political, but they all just latch on to memes and regurgitate the rhetoric of others. None of what they say or do was earned through their own research or facts. They seemingly latched onto it because it simply supported their world view. How do you deal with these kinds of conspiracy theorists?
The earth is neither flat nor round; it's obviously lumpy. _*points at a hill_
All hills are holograms. Checkmate, lumpyheads.
Can’t argue with that.
@@excrubulent How can holograms be real if our eyes aren't real?
Ever stood near a mountain? They're blurry and quivering. I heard on the radio that they're fake and I believe it.
@@fruitygarlic3601 bruh nightvaleee
Zoe's comments section is weirdly civil for TH-cam. It's sketching me out.
You got hearted lmao
You are a pee pee poo poo. There you go.
I smell conspiracy... 90% of this comment section are just Zoe from a different timeline!
Yeah I was actually going to make a vulgar joke but I got caught up in the discussions going on
I mean, if you deal with videos that are gonna be viewed by a variety of people, showing them respect no matter what their viewpoint is on a subject, they tend to be more cordial in turn
This video is so humbling. I escaped a cult and sometimes dealing with my family and old community leaves me wanting to move to another country. Thanks for reminding us that people are people, even when they’re lost and finding hope in the wrong places.
if you're fine with detailing, what cult?
@@nwut MOst likely Catholic church
@@berkutmig8319 - No, more likely JW or LDS. Those are groups who black list/excommunicate people who leave.
@@berkutmig8319Racist Asshole. You automatically assume something based on your prejudices while most followers are people of color.
I did just that and wouldn't blame you if you ever do!
I remember when my dad thought the moon was hollow and that it was a base for alien observation and it had a computer inside it that was actually running the matrix and we are living inside it.
Fun times.
has he seen The Truman Show? because that part about the moon being hollow and a secret base is in that and it just reminded me of that
Based dad, moonpilled
LOOOL 😂 Did he sobered up eventually?
Do you think he's wrong? 🤔 🤔🤔
I've never had a solid opinion I just watch the moon, and it's very odd to me.😮
I can get behind having sympathy for conspiracy theorists up until they are theorizing about tragedies being false flags and/or harassing victims’ loved ones. Like my fiancé’s brother was at the finish line of the Boston marathon and had (luckily) just started to walk off to find a friend when the bombs went off, one of his friends had to have a limb amputated. My fiancé and I were supposed to go with him but my fiancé was on leave and unexpectedly had to go back to his base early the day before. So I can’t even imagine what people like the parents of the Sandy Hook victims went through after being harassed and told their grief was acting.
I don’t know, I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’m all about being compassionate and understanding especially to people who are clearly finding something in conspiracy theories that aren’t being fulfilled elsewhere in their life. I just think there’s a line being crossed in _some_ instances that deserve more condemnation than compassion as a response.
I second this 1000 fold.
@wolf masque That's an example of what I like to call "internet phrenology", where people take tiny fragments of information and try to use it to fabricate whole worlds of information that have nothing to do with what they actually saw, and of course it all comes from motivated reasoning.
It also reminds me of high school when I was telling my youth group about a guy at my school that died. One person pointed out that I was "smiling," when I said it, so of course I had to mask up, clamp down all my reactions to what was really going on and calmly explain to them that it wasn't a smile, it was a grimace because my emotions were all over the place. Like, come on, people, you don't know what's happening inside someone's head.
@@excrubulent And also, people need to remember that people have different reactions to grief or shock. I am the person that ends up laughing when I am socked or in grief and that has something to do with me. As in, while I am extremely empathetic to others in the same situation, if it’s happening to me, my coping mechanism is to laugh (of course, it’s not always, but it’s still a coping mechanism). And I laugh in relief, too. Similarly, there are people who cry, sing, etc. when they’re in a difficult situation. And as you, some people might be grimacing and that may come off as a smile. Human emotions are a wonder and what may be a coping mechanism to one may be a mockery to another. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to show proper emotions at proper time, just that we should keep in mind that it might not be what we think it is.
Like I can forgive a wayward person who’s like
“We never went to the moon!!!”
“The earth is FLAAAAT”
“The Illuminati is real.”
Because believing in that stuff doesn’t hurt a single person, but it’s the ones that involve specific people or groups, particularly to harm them. That’s where my “ohhh okay! That’s an interesting concept” ends
Yeah man sorry about your fiancé’s brother. I’m ok with folks believing whatever they want. I’m not ok with people getting harassed in that context at all. Like those assholes that we’re harassing veterans funerals because there’s gay people and that’s why God had to kill them or some really batshit crazy nonsense. It stopped when biker gangs started providing security at the funerals.
“I once said, does it ever occur to you that someone is just trolling you, making you look dumb by creating conspiracies?” And then he stopped believing in them…
So it HAS occurred to YOU that if you have thought it, someone with ill intentions is wayyy tf ahead of you?
@@ericrenz6074 you're asking to much of these people. I gave up on convincing and I'm just waiting on the collapse at this point.
@@ericrenz6074 what do you mean by that
@@ididsomeunspeakablethingsa4899that the people in power actually know exactly what they're doing to the point that none of us ever will until it's too late
@@ericrenz6074Joe Biden is way tf ahead of us
Soda!
I appreciate that you mentioned that conspiracy theorists are often *very* intellectually curious. They're not stupid, but they do have incomplete information a lot of the time, and the conclusions they draw are often fueled by an extremely justified suspicion of people in power.
My brother, for example, did poorly in school and never really achieved a basic level of reading comprehension. He became a conspiracy theorist for a while, and the reason was because he *was* curious about the world. He would have been perfectly capable of understanding the more mainstream answers to his questions, but he didn't have access to those sources most of the time, and even worse, he didn't have the tools to understand them well.
I managed to convince him the earth is round, but it took a long, long time, and unraveling a bunch of other ideas first. What ended up happening was when he brought me an argument I would meet with it on it's merits, like soft-core debunking. He eventually learned how to critique these arguments on his own. The problem here was not my brother on his own, it was the myriad ways the education system failed him, and the fact that we actually do live in a dystopian hellscape.
Please join a socialist or communist party, one that focuses on revolution instead of reforming the democrats. A better world is possible, but it isn’t a capitalist world.
@@justinwatson1510 wtf
Are you not sick of corporations buying our government and pushing through trade agreements that pits US workers against people who work for pennies a day? Or do you like homelessness, poverty; and needless suffering?
@@justinwatson1510 listen i get what you're trying to do and I respect it but context is important when you are a political advocate. This context isn't appropriate and that means it only comes off as annoying to those who don't agree with you, and bizarre to those who are neutral or do agree with you.
Most people who believe in conspiracy theories can see that stuff is seriously wrong in society. They have people on the right blaming black people and immigrants for their problems, and liberals telling them nothing is wrong wrong with the system, just a few bad apples that need to be thrown out. You can’t argue with them from a liberal position and have honest conversations about the problems that led those people to embrace conspiracy theories, but a Marxist framework would do nicely. I feel like that makes it relevant.
I was hoping that this would help me with dealing with my mother, who believes mostly harmless conspiracy theories except for the ones around Covid and vaccines. Sadly, as I went through this I realized that I've tried all this. Same with my older brother. And as I thought about it more and more, I realized the issue for me personally is less about the conspiracy itself and more on my mother's stubbornness. Some people are just too prideful to admit when they're wrong.
So how is this going for you?
You are wrong.
Bet your mother doesn’t seem so crazy anymore?
Help your mother look at those who most use the anti-vax to give them political power. In every case their actions will be to protect themselves even as they put others at risk. In almost every case they will have the shot, usual,y secretly, and stand alone high on the podium while their follow their every word crowded below.
B--B-BU THE MAN ON TV SAID COVID VACCINE SAFE
Flat-earther- 'Send me photos of space things, that I may claim them to be photo-shopped!'
I describe Eratosthenes's experiment, I take into account your distrust of secondhand evidence and spell out how you can repeat this experiment and various other ways to get firsthand evidence of reality.
Flat-earther- 'I ignore everything you say, I repeat my demand that you send me photos of space things, that I may claim them to be photo-shopped!'
The problem with many conspiracy theorists is that they are intellectually dishonest, they expect and want you to treat them with ridicule so they can re-affirm their rightness and other's unworthiness. If you don't play into this they may try to force you into hostility by lying to you and ridiculing you and various similar sophistry games.
I have spoken with an earnest conspiracy-believer before, who was receptive to polite conversation and willing to alter their positions upon receiving new information or insight that they lacked, but I warn against assuming that a conspiracy-theorist operates on good faith.
I also love how sometimes FE people will quote written accounts to counter other evidence. As if photos can be faked, but a written account cannot be incorrect or faked.
I do think the Street Epistemology approach is the most effective approach to conspiracy theorists. But it has significant limitations, as it is effective in a personal, one-on-one conversation, it takes practice, and the other person can't already be defensive towards you. So it is useless on social media, in group settings, or with people you have argued with before, especially on the topic.
I agree that many people operate on bad faith generally. Still, it is dangerous to assume that someone operates on bad faith before you know it to be true, and it is especially dangerous to assume that an entire group operates this way.
While it will never be possible to change everyone's minds, or possibly not even a majority (for reasons including the one you're referring to here), I think the best way to change as many as possible is to approach people as though they were acting in good faith and make earnest attempts to persuade them. Even if they are not converted, you may plant seeds of doubt or make it harder for them to make their claims as confidently. If nothing else, you will learn more about the issue at hand by having to research and present it. There are questions about your own time and energy too, of course.
All of this to say that I think you're right, but I hope people don't assume this from the outset, as it stops us from having important conversations if we don't give people the opportunity to act in good faith in the first place.
@@Schoritzobandit It should go without saying that you should operate on good faith until the other person gives reason for you to think they are acting in bad faith. I don't know how you can 'know' a person is acting on bad faith, as you can't know what is going on inside their head. But if the way they act is indistinguishable from acting in bad faith, then it is safe to assume they are acting on bad faith. Generally, this should be pointed out to them, as it might give them pause to think about how they are engaging in the topic.
It's important to notice that it's not your duty to change their minds, nor their duty to engage in such attemps. If someone doesn't change their mind, that's just normal. No need to claim they're stubborn.
And to remember that most people believe the earth is round by accepting what they've been thaught, and would fail to explain what makes them so sure it is round.
@@maurorodrigoatenciobaragon5651 "It's important to notice that it's not your duty to change their minds"
True. Or maybe not.
The consequences can be as severe as it gets for conspiracy theories. These consequences can be as trivial as time, but can also include being exploited for money, death of the individual, and even the deaths of innocent bystanders. Take the JQ or climate change denial as examples. Tens of millions died as a result from the first, and the second could cost hundreds of millions of lives.
It is also worth pointing out that believing in one conspiracy theory makes you more vulnerable to believing in others. So the first one may not be so severe, but the 2nd one, or the nth one could cost people their lives.
If you could potentially save the lives of other people, especially those who are just innocent bystanders, do you have a responsibility?
"...nor their duty to engage in such attemps. If someone doesn't change their mind, that's just normal. No need to claim they're stubborn."
It is an emotionally based refusal to accept what is most likely true. Call it what you will.
"And to remember that most people believe the earth is round by accepting what they've been thaught, and would fail to explain what makes them so sure it is round."
Sure, that's why societies need experts, and for the average person, they need to trust the consensus of experts, not any quack who makes an emotional appeal. To even approach the ability for everyone to understand everything, it would require an endless education, and by the time you died of old age, you still wouldn't understand everything.
Maybe you don't care if you live in a dumpster fire of human misery, death, and exploitation, but I'd like to work towards a better world.
A bit of a correction on the events of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study: It's not that the black men involved were forcibly given syphilis, but that they had already been infected with syphilis through their own lives and were deceived into believing they were going to receive medical care for it
Commenting to bump, and also to add that in many cases the men didn't even know they had syphilis. The researchers didn't inform them of this or the fact that they had an illness they could pass to others. Not only did they not provide treatment and lie about it, but they actively took steps to prevent the participants from getting treatment elsewhere.
There was also treatment for syphilis available at the time, but the people in the study never got it because they were told they were already being treated and since the study was extended to 40 years many did die because of a treatable illness. I thought I'd add that because although no one was given syphilis, some did die as a result of the study.
Also bump for this important correction. I'd also add that the treatments available when they started the study were limited. Even after a decade when penicillin became the treatment of choice since it was much more effective they still didn't give it to the victims. Three decades after that they stopped the study, by then 28 participants had died of the disease, 100 more from related complications, at least 40 spouses had been diagnosed with it, and the scientists let the disease pass to 19 children
I was looking for this comment!
Bumping this as well since I don't see a correction in the description!
You wanna know why people start with compassion and end up angry at conspiracy theorists?
Because it burns them out. Imagine hearing your friends/family talk about these things everyday, trying to convince them otherwise while resulting in little progress, and in the end, giving up because it is being taxing on you...
It is difficult to convince a smart person that they are wrong, but almost impossible to convince an ignorant one
In many cases when it comes to personal relationships it's also because it hurts you. It's not hard to take it as some sort of betrayal. Poor communication is a core environmental issue for this situation to arise.
Most people don’t start with compassion you idiot
(For example: See what I just wrote)
Yes its emotionally taxing, especially when the only thing you're trying to do is bring some balance to the equasion, like stating it isnt necessarily a conspiracy that oil can only be produced in a lab in a couple days under ideal circumstances that dont exist in nature. They only hear "lab" and something that qualifies as an exclusion to an arbitrary rule. I actually had a similar discussion recently about how having doubts of the availability of a certain type of information where its demonstrable that counter info is actively suppressed, should look suspicious. Their position is that there are no counter arguments because those are false, and nothing is being suppressed. The argument was wether or not information was being suppressed, but they wouldn't entertain the fact that deleting posts and having a policy against posting what they called misinformation was a form of supression.
The problem is that ppl have opinions of what an objective fact is, that is clearly in opposition to the fact of its actual definition. Whats worse is when ppl dont understand what a fact is and what qualifies as a fact.
You also can't win with it. I had two friends who were conspiracy theorists. I was kind to them and just allowed them to talk where I would neither argue nor agree. And just me not actively agreeing with them would lead to them becoming infuriated. It's draining to try and appease that attitude and arguing results in an even worse reaction.
@@felineforte4167 Well you obviously can’t win if you just passively let them talk. You have to try get them to think about their beliefs
I was a conspiracy theorists, back when I smoked ridiculous amounts of marijuana. I gave it up when I realized that the powers that be are neither coordinated, nor competent enough to pull any of it off.
I think it's worth looking at where the rich and powerful fracture in their unity and why.
Epstein didn't kill himself and trump wished maxwell well as she remained silent and was released from prison.
Caugh caugh Whitney Webb.
Not everyone who smokes believes this stuff, regardless of a few smokes in the evening, or if its non stop
Marijuana-induced psychosis is real
I'm still not sure. It looks like this country is being sabotaged. I can't prove or disprove it, but it sure looks like a lot of "accidents" have happened in a row.
It's really weird that some very bright minds can't figure out that printing more money = more "transitory" (sarcasm) inflation. It looks as though they want to destroy this currency and introduce "fed coin", a controllable currency that they can put expiration dates on and delete when you say "wrong think" things.
It's really weird that we've had multiple very aggressive assaults against small business. First was in 2007. Second was in 2020 with the shut downs. Third was the riots, which were sponsored by Soros and the like. That's not conspiracy, that is actually a proven paper trail. Anyway, it's really weird that large businesses got to operate, while small businesses were permanently removed.
It's like they're trying to push us into a new era of plutocracy, not seen since the 1800s. Oh yeah, and now they want to bring back child labor. Again, total coincidence. Yep.
Minor correction: The Tuskegee Study didn't infect the subjects with syphilis.
They selected 600 poor black farmers in Alabama, of whom 399 had syphilis. They were never informed of their syphilis diagnosis and were not provided with treatment over the 40 years of the study, even though effective treatments had become available within 15 years. By the end of the study, 128 subjects had died from syphilis or its complications, and 60 or more family members and partners had been infected.
Thank you for the clarification.
What was the goal of the study? 🤔
@@aliveslice the stated goal was to understand the late stage progression and complications of syphilis more thoroughly.
Yeah I was pretty sure that nobody was inoculated by the government, but giving ineffective treatment is almost, if not just, as bad. It’s a confusing error because it’s such a famous case, but hopefully the rest of the video doesn’t have many errors
the real conspiracy was zoe's failure to research her essays
I really like step 4: give them time. We all need time to think things through, especially when we're presented with conflicting information. Also, thank you for putting so much thought and effort into this video. It shows. You've done very well.
Giving them time is good, but it honestly can do more harm than good if they stay in their echo-chambers of flat-earth groups and such. Alot of them call themselves critical thinkers, but refuse to look critically at their own beliefs and acknowledge the flaws with them. This just causes them to not question what the conspiracy groups say and just makes them double down on their belief without actually doing research beyond what they immediately see in front of them.
Funny story, I had a guy tell me that the earth doesn't spin because the other planets don't spin. He probably saw the moon through a telescope, noticed it "didn't spin" because its tidally locked with the earth, then applied that logic to everything in the solar system. The fact he acknowledged that there were other planets and a solar system, but refused to look a little deeper into the topic, heck even looked through a telescope, he would realize that the other planets do spin and maybe he would have realized the earth also spins. At the end of the day, he probably chose to do none of that, and logged into a flat-earth chat somewhere.
Fun fact: On the note of spinning planets, all the planets in our solar system rotate counter clockwise, except for Venus and Uranus which have been theorized to have had their rotations changed due to massive collisions
@@brendanbush2174 The double standards are annoying as heck but human psychology is what it is... We're all lazy, hurt and scared creatures.
It must be easy to give them time when the conspiracists don't want people like you dead or believe you are sub-human. Shame on all you enablers.
@@crazydragy4233 Not even close. Maybe you're lazy, scared and hurt.
I sure as shit am not, your baseless generalizations be damned.
I find this really interesting, as some one who had an undiagnosed personality disorder for the majority of their life. One where I could be considered delusional on a regular basis. Truly believing that people were out to get me. But, like a conspiracy theorist, the delusion is really just how I incorrectly adapted to specific stressors. Uncertainty, feeling like I wasn't being listened to, etc.
Someone just telling me that I was wrong and that I needed to snap out of it only made the situation worse. It made me feel that my feelings were wrong and that I was bad for having them. It made me more distrustful of people and I doubled down my maladaptive behaviors.
Finally having someone validate my emotions and thoughts in the form of Dialectic Behavior Therapy was life changing. And honestly, very similar to what you are recommending here. DBT is about acknowledging that the feeling is valid and real - and working on ways to manage them more effectively. Here, you are acknowledging that their belief is valid and (secretly) guiding them to more effective beliefs (science).
I am in no way comparing conspiracy theorists to those with personality disorders. I just wanted to highlight how validation and compassion are better ways to help people than simply telling them that they are wrong.
Therapy can be a life-saver. I'm glad it's working for you!
I remember a guy telling me that he used to think he could manipulate political events with his mind. It's insane how someone could think that!
holsum
People don't need to have a mental illness to have bad mental health. I think some people think if they don't have a mental illness then they're mentally healthy. Having bad mental health is usually what preceeds developing a mental illness (and even then there are varying types, degrees, and co-morbidities). I feel like much could be changed if our education system put more emphasis on psychotherapy (and government).
DBT changed my life as well. I wish I could have had the resources when I was growing up. Why did we have to wait to learn these things until after we were damaged?
hey i just want to say, i am also someone with a personality disorder and i *really* like the connections you drew between this and dbt! it's such a great comparison/parallel, it shows that in so many situations, the most effective way to change is through compassion, validation, and non-judgement, rather than dismissal and trivialization. sending best wishes to you!
31:51 I think this is why lizard aliens end up looking so reasonable, only non-humans could possibly coordinate well enough for most of those conspiracies to work.
Conspiracy: girl pockets on pants aren't as prevalent, to sell more handbags.
Fashion is just a conspiracy to sell more clothes.
This one is real
True... and by this definition every business on earth is a conspiracy? Interesting thought....
Santa Claus is a legit conspiracy if you're 7 years old. And all adults are in on it
According to this video, this concept would be a conspiracy theory. If you believe it, congratulations, you're a conspiracy theorist.
This channel is a gem. Glad I stumbled upon it. I feel almost offended that such a well produced video has only 5000 views.
Anyways, this video really helped me realise that I’m a bit of a jerk. I do struggle with being condescending towards people I disagree with. I assume that my position is the most rational and have a hard time understanding other people’s views. It’s really hard to get rid of this habit. I’ll try my best in the future to be more understanding and compassionate
@James Polk Boy it sure is and we're living it.
@@SuperExplosivegames A nice show of humility there. The Internet is a great place for confirmation bias or enlightenment.
Your video is kind, and there are conspiracy theories that are not a threat. I don't care if someone believes the world is flat. But I do care about "Jewish space lasers" because that type of theory leads to solutions I don't care for. You know, the Final kind of solutions. As leftists, I'd like to see us pick our battles carefully so we can focus on theory groups that can actually cause damage.
Responses need to be flexible. If there's some redemption story for the antisemite, I don't want to keep them from writing it - but I'd be cheerful about paying that price if that's part of keeping them from harming someone meanwhile.
Its difficult because even flat earth can have spurious implications. For example, in my part of the world, flat earth can be a mask for more dangerous forms of Christian fundamentalism. Like all things, its case by case.
@@Joshuaraymalan You're right, of course. The fundamentalists are organized and vote. If we ever get around to reversing Citizens United, I'd also love to see the tax exempt status of any church that pushes politics from the pulpit revoked.
@@Joshuaraymalan Yeah, the flat earth shit crosses the line for me too as it's just a complete rejection of science and the foundations of human understanding of nature. We need science more than ever and we can't have people undermining it. Plus, like you say, these people also tend to be religious fundamentalists and creationists (another wholesale rejection of basic science). It's just toxic stuff...
Flat earth is deeply connected to climate change denial, Christian fundamentalism, and other bad things; I wouldn't call it "not a threat."
"It pays to have an open mind, just not so open your brains fall out." Carl Sagan
Really love the positive, empathetic, and compassionate vibes. I see to many leftist TH-cam creators try to appeal to edge lords by mocking and ridiculing. And while I think that may work for some, it really makes it hard to share their videos with family, friends, and neighbors.
Not accusing Zoe at all (this video is rad 🙂)
I think there’s a fine line between having compassion for conspiracy theorists, and doing a “fine ppl on both sides” dance. It’s important to distinguish the difference, and I think this video is a great example 👍🏾❤️
iBalls assemble! 👁
27:05
Didn't see that speech did you? Jeezus lol
Not sure if you meant to reference Trumps speech with "fine people on both sides"
But it's another great example of a leftwing political conspiracy theory
iBalls? 🐲
I think "conspiracy theory" is a misnomer. None of them are actually theories, due to the lack of a substantial body of supporting evidence. At best they're hypotheses, and at worst, unfalsifiable conjectures.
But this isn’t science they aren’t trying to make it scientific law that the rich are keeping money from the poor
Unfortunately the term "theory" has a very different meaning for scientists and non-scientists. And I even see some scientists use the word theory when they actually should use hypothesis (I'm a scientist and I used to do that myself).
@@Lfppfs Thank you. Scientific theory is not a hypothesis but a model that embodies facts and has predictive power. Watching people debunk creationism years ago, helped me understand what a scientific theory is.
I really like the term "unfalsifiable conjectures", I'm gonna steal it for future use. :-)
From my anecdotal experience with climate change deniers, it really is like that much of the time. They make statements that are just a form of Russell's Teapot and then they start screaming about "no proof". Well, no one can go around debunking your bullshit the whole time, and even if I did you won't care because it doesn't match your pre-established false narrative.
I believe what you’re trying to say is there is a difference between “scientific theory”
and the general use of the word “theory”.
In general use, theory and hypothesis are synonyms.
A year too late, but my good friend, arguably at one point best friend, has fallen down the rabbit hole to the point where I am contemplating, wether I should stop being friends with them. They are incredibly smart, graduating with a 1,0 Masters degree (it's the best possible mark that one can get in our college system) and did so while juggling multiple jobs at once. I have massive respect for them and they have been at one point my motivation to push further. However, ever since the demic started they have been going nuts. It started with gradual side remarks like being unhappy with the government, but this was a very common occurrence and not really surprising. They did a shoddy job on doing what they are paid for.
Suddenly they started with talking about a worldwide conspiracy, that governments are trying to poison us, and everything in between. They shy away (at least right now) from more radical stuff, but I do think that they are susceptive to it as well. They call themselves System critic, have defended Putin and now declare that Aluminum is poising our brains and the government has their hands in as well. I have been understanding for the duration of the demic and so forth, but they have dived to so far into it that they are incapable of talking about any other topic. Even their dating life has turned into a selection process and focuses mostly on who can fit their specific mold of conspiracy. I would have been okay with it, if it wasn't for the unbearable amount of arrogance they are showing nowadays. This includes telling me off for watching art or book related stuff on yt, because I could spend my time on more productive stuff such watching these ridiculous Mind set videos about how to become a tiger or what type of personality they are, only to then try to convince me to provide my paintings to them, so they could turn them either into NFTs or do something with affiliate marketing. Because they need to earn money, so they could escape the oppression caused by the country. We are from a Western European country that could be called over privileged in most aspects. Make it make sense. They have turned from my most important friends into someone I cannot stand.
I am sorry for this wall of text, I just had to get it off of my chest and no one really gets what I am talking about or has an idea what to do.
Thank you for reading.
Hey this really seems terrible for you who loses an important friend but maybe also for your friend who knows that he might loose you because of their new beliefs. I think you maybe shouldn’t cut all your ties since you might be one of the last connections to “the real world”.
Although it might be hard to sympathize because of their ignorance and arrogance maybe let’s not forget that the cause of their new beliefs could be great insecurities about life and managing that the world in some sense seems to fall apart and no one does something against it. So one might seek a way of explaining how things came to be like that. All out of desperation out of need for a feeling of understanding and security.
I hope your friend can find a way out of this bubble and you don’t loose them.
Also are you maybe from Germany? I experience similar cases in my surroundings.
@@hodelhophopp9386 Of course it is Germany. I am pretty sure that there is no other country as susceptible as Germany. I will try to talk to them first before I cut off anything and try to make a form of communication possible. I know why they react to it, which is the mother of all conspiracy theorists: insecurity. There is barely anyone as insecure as them out there. But I am not sure if they have a shred of respect for me left. The last few meetings have been rather uncomfortable with how disrespectful they have been.
But still, I will try to talk to them first and go from there.
@@groooah that’s sad :/
Viel Glück vielleicht schaffst du es ja doch noch irgendwie und wenn nicht dann weißt du zumindest dass du’s versucht hast.
I hope you aren't friends with them anymore because, as respectfully as possible, they sound like they went off the deep end. Defending PUTIN?? Literally who does that? And NFTs use up so much energy it's HARMFUL. I know what the video says and all, but I also just believe there's times where you just need to walk away unfortunately. They could honestly be a danger to you, especially if they think objectively bad people like Putin can be defended.
IT is true
Sorry, I'm sure someone has probably already mentioned this in the comments, but it's my understanding that the government did not give the Tuskegee participants syphilis, but rather did a whole host of (still incredibly unethical and abusive) things like not informing them of their diagnosis and/or lying to them that they were treating their syphilis when they weren't (?)
Correct. They allowed them to suffer and die in the name of research.
i think an underestimated issue is misslabeling who was involved. the government wasn't the one doing the experiment, they just let it happen for a long time. It may seem like basically the same thing, but these inconsistencies can mess up a theory or disprove yourself in the long run, plus it can be used as a tool to accuse something (like the government) of doing something that they didn't (even if they allowed it to happen or supported it)
The Tuskegee study is a great example of the vast sliding scale of how understandable it is that people would believe different conspiracy claims. The Tuskegee study was a genuine proven conspiracy for the reasons you described, particularly because they consistently lied to participants about their diagnosis even after effective treatments for syphilis (that is, antibiotics) were invented that should have outweighed any dubious scientific value the study may have had. The idea that they *infected* participants with syphilis, rather than recruiting people who already had it, is a conspiracy theory... but one that doesn't sound like much of a stretch if you have heard *anything else at all* about medical research from before the radical shift in research ethics in the 1970s that led to modern informed consent practices.
it was conducted by the CDC and Public Health Service, two government agencies.
"As an incentive for participation in the study, the men were promised free medical care, but were deceived by the PHS, who never informed subjects of their diagnosis, despite the risk of infecting others, and the fact that the disease could lead to blindness, deafness, mental illness, heart disease, bone deterioration, the collapse of the central nervous system, and death."
They were just told they had "bad blood" which could mean a lot of different, much less deadly things
I am a peanut butter baby who came here because of Thought Slime. Great channel.
I wanted to "like" your comment, but am lothe to disrupt your 69 babeeee
Slime advocates for this channel?
@@tannerbollon633 It was in the Eyeball Zone a few weeks ago. :)
E Y E B A L L S
Eyeball 👁 GANG GANG 👁 Zone
as my father once said, "these people can't even balance the budget... how could you expect them to pull off some sort of 'grand conspiracy'?"
He’s got a point!
Also, the UN has multiple nations with conflicting interests as well as cabals (USA/EU versus Russia/China as well as others) with competing interests, yet people think the UN is gonna be the World Government led by the Antichrist.
I'm the daughter of a life-long employee of the US government, and this is the basic argument my mom always made against government conspiracy theories. Any government conspiracy would require the perfect collusion and coordination of way, way too many people. One tiny slip - like a conspirator commenting to their spouse - and the whole thing collapses. Government workers aren't paid enough to keep their mouths shut.
....maybe *because* they can't balance the budget...
you think their intention was ever to balance a budget? they are crooks who accumulate power in all forms for the sake of having it. if they "wanted to balance a book" they could, and would. there is no incentive at all to be honest when you have more power than god.
Its always so funny because a lot of time there is a grain of truth in the conspiracy theories but they usually blow right by what is actually happening and come to the most insane conclusions with no evidence
CIA killed JFK < Lizard people
No evidence? Huh? There’s REAMS of evidence.
@@jamespatton7965 👍💖💖
A few years back, I was falling into that rabbit hole and honestly, the thing that yanked me out of there, was shame. Shame, when I saw what ppl say and asking myself if I really want to be part of this group. I had to do the painful work of introspection on my own. Now I have to constantly remind myself that I'm not so different and fight hard to not slip into condescending realms when talking to or about conspiracy theorists. Thank you for this heartwarming video!
Shame is not always something we should avoid employing, it serves an important purpose. Shame was likewise the impetus for changing my political party affiliation in college.
When I applied the skills I learned to write research papers (verifying source credibility, media literacy) I realized why Republicans and Libertarians were not taken seriously in academia. It wasn’t just snobbery, something I was prepared to face in college, I was the one who thought I knew everything without doing any of the work it takes to responsibly form political opinions and make decisions like which candidates to vote for.
The “facts over feelings” bros were all feelings, no facts. As a woman, I was not oppositional to feminism as a smart subversive-I was detestable “pick me.” I had a lot to learn about misogyny, including my own internalized bigotry.
The final straw was a class I took on Civil War Literature, where I learned the truth about the Civil War. I was deeply ashamed for saying things like _”actually,_ it was about states’ rights” so confidently in discussion with people I knew.
Shame is productive, sometimes.
This is criminally under viewed.
"You can't expect people to change their mind right in front of your eyes, especially if they're wrong." ~ Zoe Bee.
As someone who left extreme religion I appreciate that you show compassion to conspiracy theorists and those with extreme beliefs because most likely the reason they have those beliefs is because the were raised that way and emotionally manipulated/shamed to keep believing it.
So, victim shaming works?
@@IgnoreMeImWrong what? they are saying that some people are shamed and social pressure is used against them to discourage critical thinking and questioning what they have been told. how does victim shaming come into that at all (other than the fact that you saw the word shaming and ran with it lol)?
@@whatthehelliot I'll be honest, I can't be bothered reading whatever you posted.
@@IgnoreMeImWrong dont reply then lmao dumbass
@@whatthehelliot It's not my fault you're anti-social.
searched 'conspiracy' on youtube and filtered by new. found this gem, great video!
I love how you approach every topic with an open mind and a level of compassion that seems to be a breath of fresh air in the climate of social media of today
Couple sort of points:
1) I appreciate the fact you cite sources. Very good on you for that, so many of us can not be bothered.
2) Nice point that so many science education outlets are condescending, too often I need to include myself. If you want to terrify yourself, feel free to check out so many textbooks: the number of factual errors is horrifying - and exhausting to counter.
3) Currently not able to work as adjunct science instructor (intro Chemistry & Environmental Science), so I have run into this far too often. As a nominal scientist - I've got 50+ years of being a magnet for young earth creationists, chemtrail enthusiasts, flat earthers/moon landing denialists insisting that their model is "scientific" and therefor correct. Sorry - I get really tired of facing such or a regular basis when I have a classroom.
4) I wonder if you consider doing a piece on presentations something. One school I enjoyed working at emphasized presentations - which turned into a nightmare many times. Best example was a presentation on Tsunamis, which turned super convincing on a clip from a End Times movie, little child looking out the back car window at a 1km wave front about to drown the family. Sorry - that isn't science, it was not useful information about a tsunami, it was just marketing saying tsunamis are bad (as in Satan bad, not destructive of human affairs bad)
Anyway - basically excellent content in a very professional presentation - thankyou
You did a good job of offering helpful advice *without* pretending that somehow this is an easy or simple problem to deal with, especially when so many people are literally dying as a result of conspiracy theories about Covid and geopolitical realities. We want to be compassionate and give people time but there are also lives at stake, so there is a tension between best practices and what seems morally acceptable. Most of the experts who address this issue seem to ignore that.
Can you tell me which conspiracy theories have cost lives regarding covid?
I know that there are ridiculous stories like the jab being 'safe and effective', and there are others such as there are no early treatments that work.
Do you have any others to add?
@@TheRonster1957 in the vaccine, there is nano technology planted by Elon to control your thoughts
Do you mean stuff like that?
Well said
I needed this video. We can be so opened minded that we dismiss anyone who isn't "woke". Losing the holier than thou attitude and treating opposing views with respect is another method to try. A good movement requires a variety of tactics.
There is a difference between opposing views and opposing facts. I can respect the former, I will give no quarter to the latter.
@@shodan6401 agreed. different interpretations of a given fact are fine and good, but denying that the given fact is even a fact is when I disregard your opinion.
The fact that treating others respectfully within the sphere of debate requires a condescending video manual might be the biggest evidence we need for a conspiracy of clueless communism.
@@maebandy Not a fan of the video ?
@@maebandy yea respect is a two way street, and it' something that's earned. The kind of people who conspiracy theories do so because they want to feel like they know better than other people, and they do so aggressively while pretending to have intellectual cred they didn't earn. It's very difficult to respect obviously selfish people that you can't emphasize with.
Sometimes when I notice that big amount of people have a worldview opposed to mine and that I found them obviously wrong, I feel very tempted in thinking they were manipulated by a conspiracy that is moving the strings.
... but then I remember they tend to believe something similar about people like myself.
It's easy to just make up a conspiracy to invalidate other people's opinions.
There is one valid thing, which is when there is actual evidence of a conspiracy. An example of such is that we know thanks to a whistleblower and leaked emails that right wing institutions have been working together to all spread the same lies about trans people.
Their worldview is opposed to mine and they are obviously wrong- existing scientific papers and studies can disprove them in a heartbeat- but there is actually an ongoing conspiracy. We have seen the emails.
No, that's usually a false equivalency.
@@jesusmind1611 MK Ultra did happen
@@hangfire5944 they don't wanna hear it, they say flat earther in all these comments cause they don't want to acknowledge all the disclosed and declassified cia ops on the people that would poke holes in their world view
Excellent work! I very much like your thoughtfulness in presentation.
Conspiracy Theories are born of a triad of fear, doubt, and curiosity. Fear and doubt are obvious, whereas curiosity is often forgotten as many see theorists as seeking easy answers to complicated or rather chaotic things. Skepticism of any system is fine, it's when you become blind to the possibility that those presenting the common thread may be right that it becomes a problem. The common story is not always right, but assuming it is always wrong is also deeply flawed.
For me, the biggest problem was how much the involvement of parents in conspiracy theories reflected on me. And I can't just stop talking to them. And I can’t stop hearing what they have been forcibly pouring into my ears for several years.
Believing in their theories they eventually began to embody them on us, on their children and with the current restrictions they have placed on us, I feel like my life is a bit ruined.
Sounds like you have interesting parents. Lucky you!
@@TheRonster1957 “interesting parents” is a way to put it.
@@sealedtugboat9965 Certainly more interesting than parents who believe whatever the man in the box says.
@@TheRonster1957the man in the box?
@@rooknado the man in the box, eg. the talking heads on TV, or the media in general.
This video deserves a lot more views. This individual level advice is so important as conspiracy ideologies become ever more extreme and damaging to individuals on all sides. Thanks for your work!
Not as damaging as real conspiracy in the same right.... but the real situation is, if you limit thier speech, and deny people the choice to decide what they believe, it creates a funnel of information guided and suppressed toward any ends by the powers that hold them..... this video was not taken down, her speech was not limited, and you're basically saying that its good that your information can be surpressed because you cant make an informed decision, you want someone to do it for you?
A normal person may accept the possibility of a conspiracy because they recognize flaws in the official record of events and acknowledge that there could exist other explanations. The normal person accepts that "they don't know" the true facts and are not definitive about the event. The conspiracy theorist outright rejects the official record of the events and is totally convinced, without factual evidence, that the official record is a lie. They have fully accepted that one of the other possible explanations for the event is true and beyond question. It is the conspiracy theorists insistence that they are right and they have the true answer is what pisses off normal people.
Yes, conspiracy theorists can be infuriating. Absolutely.
Unfortunately, blowing up at them may push them farther away.
You are not obliged to hold back your frustration, but it is helpful to do so if your goal is to maximize the chance that they will let go of their belief.
You missed a group: those who will not question the official or accepted social narrative even when there are glaring holes in concept or issue being discussed. This is the vast majority of people. Those who believed the invasion of Iraq was needed, those who believed in forced sterilization, those who believed in segregation, those who believed the unvaccinated needed to be exterminated, those who believed in forced lobotomies, those who believed in Indian Residential schools, those who believed in Japanese internment, those who believed in seizing babies from unwed mother's, those who believed in McArthyism, those who believed in prohibition, those who believed in criminalization of marijuana, those who supported the Vietnam War, those who supported shutting down the economy for 2 years, ....well, the list is almost endless, but you get the point. Of note, the term "conspiracy theorist", "far right", "alt right", Trump Supporter", "N@zi", etc. now means "someone who doesn't think exactly like me".
@@ickster23Some people will always have different opinions and apply a different standard of evidence to evaluate information. I am absolutely against the use of faith, since it is a belief based without verifiable, demonstrable and repeatable evidence. Faith should never be admired or rewarded. The discipline of epistemology is rarely or never taught in the education system.
@@chrisgraham2904 Well said.
@@ickster23 hindsight is 2020... virtually everyone was pro eugenics before people were shown how grisly the logical conclusion of it was for instance...its great to go against these terrible things in history, but much easier to see they were terrible now that we know better
Your obvious compassion for everyone else makes you one of the best of us I think Zoe.
I was listening to this at work while cleaning bathrooms and got to the end of it and. i got an ad for a miracle cure sound frequency, and i didnt realize it was an ad bc i didn’t pull out my phone. I kept thinking “this is a really good joke to tack onto the end of a video about conspiracies” and then i pulled out my phone and saw it was an actual ad. oh my god
lmao
It's crazy to see how quickly the quality of the video production has grown. The content is good, and the videos quickly matched the quality of the content.
While I wholeheartedly believe in the message of this video, conspiracy leading to domestic terror shifts my perspective greatly
So you are against BLM, I take it?
Amazing video. I work in construction so there's a lot to try to sift through. I loved your pro-tip. A couple things I have found help in beyond what you've been doing is to always start on anything I can agree with. And I agree that you can't abide stuff that is harmful, but you can agree upfront to disagree. It doesn't shut down discourse but it also doesn't roll over and allow them to have the default notion that they are right. Another thing is to acknowledge that we are being made to be divided intentionally and joke that the last thing 'they' want is for us to have a real conversation.
Respect when having a discussion is always important but also remember to be really careful if the person you are discussing with could be dangerous!
I once had a discussion with a person who was against free abortion. Our discussion ended when he tried to stab me
Free abortion for black women and minorities
RIP alt-dimension Zoe, ate her entire coat, without even cooking it... or emptying the pockets of interdimensional travel gear.
🐐🎱 [edit: I am alt-dimension Zoe - AMA]
@@ericrenz6074 balls
While I do sympathize with conspiracy theorists, it hurts to hear some people think the Boston Marathon Bombing wasn't real. One of my classmates was the cousin of the little boy who died, and I remember watching the family mourn and him being absent from school for the funeral. It was a genuinely formative moment for me, and I also feel so much for my friend who lost a relative.
It is so easy to prove that it was staged. I can tell you how and where to easily get the New Zealand Christ Church mass shoestring 17 minute vid. Once you watch that ridiculously/poorly staged event you will never be able to become unconscious to the truth that these events are staged.
Great video. Really covers a lot of the bases that seem to get missed in "how to combat conspiracism" videos.
From personal experience, I'd argue that it's pointless to even entertain the conspiracy arguments until you've built up a rapport.
Conspiracy theories are built on a foundation of fear and mistrust. Until the person feels like they can not only trust but rely on you, their shields are up and they will pivot.
The insidious part is seeing someone you are close to fall into these things. It makes it very difficult to step back and be somewhat objective. In some respects it's easier to build a rapport with an acquaintance to argue them out of a conspiracy theory than it is with a close loved one. There's less investment and fewer preconceptions about who a person "really is".
That said, given that the forces of capital have a vested interest in maintaining the systems which encourage conspiracism, I'm worried that things are only going to get worse for a while.
Over the past six-ish years, I've been watching my family fall deeper and deeper into different conspiracies, and it......**hurts**.
My oldest sister has always LOVED thinking about all of that, and i do have to mention that she believed in simulation theory (before it was even called that) like......20+ years ago as a kid, just because she thought like that. She's gone REALLY far down some holes, though, and while she hasn't said anything outright hateful--she's ALWAYS prioritized curiosity over hate *and* understanding that everyone is different--she's..... She's not even butting up against flat-out Nazi shit, she's sitting on it. She's got her hands on the latch. She refuses all vaccines and pulled her kids from school because of mask mandates; she believes in the illuminati; she believes in the whole adrenachrome (sp?) thing; AND she's pulling the rest of my family down into it.
They talk about the Mandela effect as if it's a real thing; I've noticed they're WAY faster to believe hateful ideas pushed by conservative platforms (transness is a mental illness and all trans women are predators are two of the worst); they've also just become.....so much less sympathetic to other humans. I understand *how* they got there, though, so I'll spend four to five hours AT A STRETCH arguing to try and make them understand why those beliefs are legitimately dangerous. They nod and say they get it, and then the next week they're saying all the same things again, like we never even talked.
And while my oldest sister hasn't, some of the rest of my family has said some unbelievably hateful, dangerous shit--"don't align yourself with the outsider," "AIDS didn't happen," "i want to personally kill every person who tries to get an abortion," "you need to conserve your cultural legacy (talking about mixed couples"..... What..... Where......
Where do you even START. I have to be so fucking careful because if i try to explain how deeply connected all of those are to bigotry, white supremacy, fascism, and genocide, they'll shut down immediately AND get furious that I'm "implying" they want any of those things. I'm not even just wearing kid gloves when i talk to them, I'm touching them through seventeen pairs of oven mitts.
The only person i think I've had any kind of luck with WAS my oldest sister. I'll always hear conspiracy theories out--i LOVE learning about wild shit, i always have--but i make it super clear to her that I'm interested in it ***as a story*** and i can't get into it if the people I'm talking to don't also understand it ***as a story***. I was explaining that again, and then because it was obvious I was REALLY frustrated, i said that i think conspiracy theories are modern day fairy tales, and fairy tales are warnings.
You're SUPPOSED to listen to them, you're supposed to listen about little red riding hood or the three little pigs, and then go on to make sure no one is left out in the cold in a dangerous situation, or know what warning flags turn someone from good Samaritan to predator. You're not supposed to think there are wolves putting on nightgowns and having grown adults pulled intact and unharmed from their stomachs.
When you hear about mole people, you SHOULD start to wonder why a whole group of people would want--or need--to live off the grid, and try to sympathize. When you hear about flat earth, you SHOULD take that as an inlet for regularly interrogating your own beliefs to make sure they're not doing harm and you still align with them. You're not supposed to literally fucking belief in half-human hybrids stealing your food that you need to look out for, or that you could walk off the edge of the planet.
And THEN i explained how so many of those misinterpreted fairy tales were weaponized to perpetrate and kill people--how outsiders in society are always transformed into witches stealing your children or monsters eating them--as justification to kill them. Jewish people, Romani people, women, disabled people, people of color around the world, indigenous people... And i get SUPER fucking frustrated because that's not the point. Folktales, fairy tales, old wives' tales, they were passed down to protect and keep safe, in a language people could understand because no one gets something if you tell them outright.
I mentioned the war story "Truths" about how sometimes fake stories tell things more honestly than direct retellings, or how Jesus needed to tell parables for people to understand what he was saying, even though he'd been really upfront with everything. And then, THEN, F I N A L L Y--
I said "It's like in The Last Unicorn, with the two horns so people knew that she was real." And my sister said, "They had to put a fake horn on a real unicorn so people knew what they were looking at." And i went YES!!! YES THAT EXACTLY. That's why i get frustrated with conspiracy theories--they're fairy tales meant to help, but because people are getting caught up on taking it literally, they completely miss the point. And she got quiet and the conversation ended.
I don't know if it'll have any long-term benefits--she's still super deep in it--but it felt like the first time in an EXTREMELY LONG TIME I've had any kind of breakthrough with any of them.
I guess i wanted to mention it in case it would help, or people need hope when they're dealing with this. Watching your loved ones slip out of your fingers right before your eyes is unbelievably fucking painful, and it's hard to cope with if you don't have hope they'll come out of it.
Unfortunately the last few years have brought about a confluence of all the rabbit holes, I'm sure it's now possible to have all manner of combined self radicalised reactionaries. The parallels with religious nuttery are quite astonishing, you've probably been subjected to many a half hour diatribe, unable to interject, as the bullshit and 'evidence' flies by. Belief is little more than a sensation, but can have a tenacious grip on a person, it's the ultimate product though created from nothing more than hot air and salesmanship. Hang in there you're on the right track, study your subject and choose your times, but most of all protect your own brain. Regards from the Highlands of Scotland
i really must congratulate you for putting up with such a front ! you've done some really great work, and i hope u succeed again :]
This is such an interesting and helpful story you've shared. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it out. I need to reread a few times bc there's so much good thoughtfulness in it 🙏🏽
Awww boo hoo. So what happened to diversity, inclusivity, kindness, tolerance, and all those other socialist buzzwords?
Perhaps it is you who are doing the hurt with your closed mind and intolerance?
@@martinharris5017 Define Socialism for me.
And then go look up *Karl Popper's Paradox of Intolerance.*
There is no need to tolerate people like you. We're done being nice to bigots and idiots.
Get your shit together or be prepared to be berated. 😘
Thank you for approaching this subject with kindness. It's easy to be condescending to or make fun of conspiracy theorists when they are strangers or acquaintances, it becomes difficult when it becomes a family member or friend that you care for.
I believed in the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory. I had seen The Life of Adam, I was in high school, and I had just not wanted to believe that the event happened. It scared me that someone could just go and do that, and the excuse, that it didn't happen, that it was just a plot by the left to try and push through gun control legislation, that made me able to dismiss my initial fears, and I very much hoped that the conspiracy was true, and for it to succeed, I was and still am in favor of heavily restrictive gun ownership legislation. I didn't go and try to spread the belief, I didn't harass the families into coming out with it, after all, if it came out the plot would be less likely to succeed, and I thought that if the conspiracy was not real, then the harassment was unforgivable.
What finally brought me out of it, was when the 2017 Las Vegas shooting happened, and I heard the exact same arguments about this new shooting, and still no gun control legislation was pushed through. The plot just wasn't happening, the cabal of crisis actors, false flag planners, all these people working hard to stage incidents to push through protective legislation, it wasn't real. When I had believed Sandy Hook never happened, I don't think anything someone said could have convinced me otherwise, but now I just look back and think "How was I so stupid and insensitive to believe that was fake?", and it was down to my fear of random death caused by someone just deciding one day that was the day they were going to shoot someone.
After I had come out of it, I actually got really interested in looking into conspiracy theories, and trying to understand them, in case someone I cared about fell into one, so I could try and help them escape from it, and from doing that I know how no matter how many facts you give to someone, unless they can prove it for themselves, it won't do anything. It is often said that facts don't care about your feelings, using as a way of dismissing someone without considering their position or even what the facts are, but in the mind of someone who has fallen for a conspiracy theory, their feelings oftentimes don't care about the facts, and that is something most people trying to make debunking efforts don't fully understand, and in this video I think you perfectly captured that aspect. The most important way to try and pull someone out is to go into it with a want to understand them, not to deny them.
Thank you so much for sharing your story!
I also want to add that my next two videos (out in March) are going to be about "evidence" and I'm going to take two different (but related) looks at the "Facts don't care about your feelings" schtick.
The second video is going to be about how "facts" don't always work when trying to change people's minds, and my current working title is literally "Feelings don't care about your facts".
So, we're definitely on the same wavelength, there, friend!
This is one great video, I've been trying to get my dad out of the covid-conspiracy swamp for a year now, these are some useful tips
Good luck!
Great points. One nuance I'd like to add though is if we are being intellectually honest, we cannot automatically assume all "conspiracy theories" are bunk. However, starting with a null hypothesis of "all conspiracy theories are bunk" and testing this hypothesis with evidence, we can come to a more accurate view of the world (as most of the conspiracies would fail when examined with evidence).
Keep in mind: conspiracy theories are not theories in a scientific sense, but rather hypotheses
Yeah, and conspiracy hypothecy had a much better ring to it.
@@KozelPraiseGOELRO “Theory” is the right word too, it just isn’t a scientific theory
You should take that up with the CIA. They're the one's that coined the term for " things that have too much evidence " you don't have to take me at face value, do your own research.
They are just "conspiracies."
Actually the belief that the interests of the bourgeois are in direct contradiction to the interests of the proletariat is neither a conspiracy (since the rich are not conspiring among themselves, there are cliques but overall there are many factions even within their own class) nor a theory (it is literally a material observable fact) so I feel like considering it as such to make the argument is not a good call.
Oh, no, the conspiracy theory is that the 1% are deliberately coordinating to make things shittier for the 99%. In truth they are not, they each act in their own interest, with the same result.
@@Orlandofurioso95 fair enough but no Marxist worth their name would ever believe that the 1% have a secret cabal from which they control everyone. Even Bernie who is not a marxist believes that.
@@Kassey194 I agree! No True Scotsman would ever... Wait, what was I talking about? :p
@@Orlandofurioso95 I said "Worth their name" lel
I am pretty sure people like that exist
@@Orlandofurioso95 i wouldnt say each of them work in their own interest. there are definitely religious factions that work together to achieve power maintenance through oppression. its not every man for himself in the 1% or there would never be government bailouts/subsidies for big corporations. it is mostly familial and religious/race based factions. but there is definitely not an every man for himself mentality among the 1% when you look at the way they operate in reality..
I have found that people believe in them because:
A) It makes them feel like they know something others don't
B) It gives them a sense of community with other believers
C) It gives them a sense of purpose
People are relatively simple creatures. :)
Excellent comment. Spot on; especially the “it makes them feel special” part.
So, are you not sure about the idea that people belief in conspiracy theories because the truth is uncomfortable or unbelievable and they are seeking a more comfortable conclusion so that their experience seems real? I’m asking because you left it out of your reason list. If you don’t believe this is a reason people believe conspiracy theories, please tell me why if you don’t mind.
This is an amazing video because it treats conspiracy theorists like human beings worthy of understanding and respect just like the rest of us, and it shows that we aren’t exactly immune to this kind of thinking!
Fighting hate means not falling to hate those who hate you. This applies here too :3
@@crazydragy4233 exactly!
The emphasis on respect here is refreshing!! Good for the soul.
I really appreciate this video, thank you. This is shameful to admit because I like to think of myself as a pretty smart person but it's so easy to fall into these theories when there's something pulling you in. I've struggled with an eating disorder for most of my life and at its worst, I saw a lot of "breatharian" content online and it caught my interest. To most people, the whole idea would sound absolutely coconuts, but for me, when I watch stories of people who fell prey to that cult, it's "there but for the grace of God" because that honestly could have been me so easily.
I'm not saying this to excuse anyone, especially people who push straight-up hateful conspiracy theories and hurt people, but we're all susceptible to conspiracy thinking.
I agree. The ability to reason things well in the hands of a person that really wants to believe in something will end up with emotionally driven choices being framed as rational ones. Which leads to a lot of...complications.
That's where I disagree. We are NOT all susceptible to "conspiracy thinking". If I hear or read something that doesn't sound right, I educate myself. When this whole Obama birth certificate thing blew up, I saw the controversy make front page news and I had no idea what was going on. So, off I went to learn what was the deal. Within five minutes I realized that there was no controversy. I said to myself, "Oh, this is just some straight-up racist bullshit." That's how I approach life and that's how I process new information. It's easy and it doesn't cost a cent. Sites like NPR, PBS and the BBC - all free and utterly trustworthy. There is no rabbit hole for facts. Truth is not arbitrary.
@@shodan6401 Congratulations, good for you.
@@shodan6401 everyone is susceptible to manipulation
I've found that many people don't really have like hard fast, identity creating relationships to the consipracies they believe. Like I've met people that believe there was a lot of government involvement on 911, but they don't really care that much, so when I try to ask them about it, they admit they don't really know much, but they're always like "I mean, do you REALLY believe this, this and this is just a coincidence?" and I'm like "yeah..." and they look at me like I'm gullible. But they don't really care enough to defend it, they don't have strong opinions about what actually IS there, but about what ISN'T the case. It seems to be more about not accepting the more random and unexplainable aspects of society and considering there HAS to be some kind of malicious intent behind it.
That's my experience, at least.
Uss liberty
(March 25, 2020) University of Alaska Fairbanks, "fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11"
@@ericrenz6074 And then all the reports from established government and nongovernment agencies that say the fire did cause the collapse of WTC7. This is widely accepted and proven to be true.
@@Trve_Kvlt I wouldnt bet my silver on it..
"Secret knowledge" can lead to a ego-based messianic endorphin rush. This is how fear and anger can become addictive - when "truth" gets you high and makes you feel elite and superior. A compensation for low esteem, feelings of powerlessness, existential terror? Maybe...
I love when one groups conspiracy theories overlap an enemy groups conspiracy theory.
You just described every religious conflict in the history of man
I'm coming to the party late, and don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I have seen an extremely effective method called "Street Epistemology," where you respectfully challenge how someone comes to believe what they believe and you don't even address what it is or why, but how reliable their method is of determining what they believe to be true.
Have you found any information on this method? I'm wondering if there's been any research on its effectiveness.
@@Kefemu There is an entire TH-cam channel by a guy who spends a lot of his time doing this whose name is Anthony Magnabosco. I don't know of any research on its effectiveness, but it sure can make a difference if people come to the conversation genuinely and honestly.
from "A Manuel for Creating Atheists" ? 👀
@@ericrenz6074 Yes. Peter Boghossian wrote a very insightful book about questioning not the conclusions people come to, nor the way they came to them, but the methods that they used and the reliability of those methods of coming to conclusions that are true.
@@themandalor38501 dated roughly, what 2013?
To explain how Conspiracy Theorists are intelligent I would generally compare with Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius
Look at everything Wile E. Coyote has ever done. That shit required a LOT of thought to do that stupid stuff--well, sans his awesome Mat Paintings of Tunnels. I'm so glad that more people are able to recognise how great of a skilled painter Wile E. Coyote really is... I mean, not only making a Mat Painting--but a REALLY REALLY good one... and on the side of a cliff
Everything Wile E. Coyote has a fatal flaw--but he spends so much time figuring out if he could do something, that he never asked if he "SHOULD do it". To paraphrase Jeff Goldbloom a little bit there
It essentially is a form of Intelligence trap, where the person's own intelligence KEEPS them stuck. It is a common method Cults use to get members stuck in them. Rather than having an outside force keep them stuck in... they make it so their own mind is spinning its wheels and doing donuts. Which looks impressive--and damned feels good when you are doing it--but it isn't particularly good for your car... brain... car-brain
A good example of the Wile E. Coyote Supergenius effect would be Terry Davis. Dood is super freaking smart--and super capable... but he believes a lot of really dumb stuff. It isn't because he is dumb... it is because he is intelligent enough to justify these dumb ideas. At least to himself. Creating all kinds of weird tales--all of which are to convince himself
But... more people need to comprehend the Wile E. Coyote Supergenius effect
To add to this a bit: Another thing about Wile E. Coyote's genius is that it overlooks solutions that don't engage his genius, and he kind of ignores the obvious-but-simple solutions to his problems. If his problem is that he's hungry, if he's smart enough to order and assemble 3 thousand ACME devices to try and fail to catch the Roadrunner, he can also put in an order for a pizza to be delivered, ya know? But he's so laser-focused on catching the Roadrunner that the idea of even just setting his sights on easier prey eludes him.
It's part of why I think that getting people to realize they should be wary of straying from their lanes of expertise; I see this happen in the sciences a lot where an admittedly smart person will look at a problem that experts in the field have been trying to solve for a long time, and think they'll do it in a week. Not to say that sometimes a new perspective isn't what's needed to crack a problem, it often is, but at the same time knowing when you're out of your depth is a crucial skill that I think is sometimes overlooked by a lot of people.
@@stevencowan37 its "obvious and simple" not "obvious but simple". Simplicity and obviousness are directly related, so phrasing them as being contrary to each other is incorrect.
Unless you are talking about a different Terry Davis (if so pls disregard), the reason why he believed the wildest and crazy things is that he was a Paranoid Schizophrenic and was deeply mentally disturbed. There was no subtle psychological trap comparable to a character in a kids cartoon. He was legitimately deranged and his perception of reality was fundamentally warped due to his mental illness, not that he was very smart and used his intelligence to justify his beleifs. Like how CIA agents glow in the dark for example or that God was telling him to make an operating system so he could communicate with Terry.
I would honestly contest that a bit. It's not that they're super smart or anything as much as it's that they're gullible with a lot of the Dunning Krueger effect going on. Which is a type of curve where having some knowledge makes you very confident, but the more knowledgeable someone is the less confident they are until they hit the point of being an expert and their confidence goes back up.
Like for example, say you know nothing about rocket science. I wouldn't be confident speaking of something I don't know.
Now let's say I'm like one of these Flat Earthers that watch rocket videos all day. In this scenario, I wouldn't know a huge load about how rockets work, but because I watch all this footage I'm going to at least think I know how things work and that's where you get claims that astronauts have bubbles coming out of their helmets and stuff because they're in a pool.
As I get more well learned on the topic I'd eventually realize that the things in the footage aren't bubbles, but I wouldn't immediately know what they are, necessarily.
And then I'd eventually hit a point where I'm familiar enough with space phenomenon to realize that the things people are pointing out are ice crystals breaking off, because moisture attached to the suits freezes in space and just floats away when it's disturbed.
With Conspiracy Theorists, they're basically all somewhere in the second or early third stage of this, they know that there are specific phenomena happening in videos that show visual distortion or what seems to be a sun shrinking as it sets, and that knowledge supports a conclusion they have in their minds that these things mean the Earth has to be flat. But because they don't actually understand the full mechanics of refraction or how these things really work, they just settle into an alternate explanation that seems to fit and go from there. And because they're not looking deeper into the reality of the situation, it means that they'll never really progress to the point of actually getting what's happening unless someone else explains it to them or pushes them in the right direction in just the right way.
I don't think this idea that theorists are really clever in a different way is really accurate because what you're seeing isn't really the product of any individual person's false assumptions, it's all the false assumptions of a community coming together to form one person's mindset as they pick up and ignore what they feels works and doesn't work about the theory. I mean, again, just look at Flat Earth, right? You'll hear the same debunked arguments time and time again because all of these people are just spreading the same ideas to each other without really considering other possible options or even the broader ramifications of their claims. There's a reason why Flat Earthers keep talking about water sticking to a spinning ball even though the argument is kind-of nonsense. It's because the demonstration of someone spinning a ball really fast to fling water off of it has become a meme in the community, as in an ACTUAL meme, like an idea that spreads across a group as a sort-of mental trope that gets repurposed and recycled as time goes on. It just takes two seconds to realize why this is a bad scale model test for a planet, but because people have seen it and talk about it a lot, that sells people on the idea that this is somehow a super convincing idea even though it's completely illogical as a point.
@@dracocrusher Knowledge and Intelligence are not the same thing. You can have knowledge and no intelligence... and you can have intelligence without having knowledge
So--that long rant you did... is fucking wrong, because you started off an an incorrect axiom that you extrapolated from
Also... Logic and Intelligence are NOT the same thing. Logic is a rigorous skill set that you can apply yourself towards. The difference is like the difference between martial arts knowledge and raw brute strength
Essentially... you are conflating some things as HAVING to have to be combined... that honestly... no, they don't have to be combined--and generally you won't see them combined often
Because of this forced combination of things that are merely inclined to be located in the same room at times... you've created a messed up understanding of the situation present
You gotta out-crazy them so far that you make a full loop and start making sense again
After months of arguing about the vaccine with my mother, this has been more helpful than just showing her the data.
And hows that working out for ya?
@@hime273 she got vaccinated :)
@@HaveanIcedaymx damn alright you managed to make her do a U-turn
@@HaveanIcedaymx so you brainwashed her into taking the jab
@@QTwoSixno she convinced her with data and empirical evidence. You fail to see that you are the one who is brainwashed, you have no evidence that the vaccine is unsafe, just claims
Cognitive-disonance is the efect that makes it so hard for people to quit. NO one wants to admit they are wrong
Actually people who love to learn like myself often feel great admitting we are wrong. It provides opportunity to learn something new!
Tbh the main reason I fell into conspiracies (back in 2012) was drugs and mental illness lol. I’m not discounting the other reasons at all though, this is a super interesting topic! I like your positive outlook and I strongly believe in respect as well
I think conspiracy theories stop being okay when they hurt others or come from hatred/prejudice.
Back when I was 12-13, my history class had to engage in a little bit of conspiracy theory. We were studying the JFK assassination and basically trying to figure out possible explanations that weren’t the official one. Some of them were pretty outlandish too. I enjoyed it too, mostly with the aspect of what was basically creative deduction from information that attempts to push you towards a specific answer.
I do still think his whole assassination could've 100% been avoided. Whether the CIA meant it or not, they definitely lead to him dying
The only thing about jfk is it was conspiracy. Warren report was a failure.
CIA killed him
27:51 *Thank you for this.* Too many times I've had people I know who try to argue with conspiracy theorists with...completely wrong information. To them they thought they "knew" the truth but then they would repeat stuff that's completely untrue or at the very least only half-true and suddenly get surprised when the conspiracy theorist in question calls them out on it. To them, having knowledge was more akin to a sport where some people were just BETTER than others at having information. That would lead them down their own rabbit holes that, while they had more truth to them than "the other side," still falls under the same umbrella as being desperate for answers and not fully understanding or realizing the truth. At least, the closest we can come to a truth.
Can you give any examples?
"...in the age of the internet, good ideas often get drowned out by theatrics. Memes that sound good will always be more convincing than well-reasoned but boring or heavy-handed arguments."
Maybe that's why people like DeGrasse Tyson or groups like IFLS act the way they do, employing theatrics and memes to make their points.
What a world we would live in if people chose compassion over combat.
As the great MiniMinuteMan said;
"You don't have to make up a shadow government to be mad at, you can just be mad at the government."
Thank you for your work around intellectual classism.
She does a good job of making sure that there is no way to be seen as attacking or aggressive. You have to talk to these people like you're trying to calm a skiddish horse
Ugh I so wish this would work on my mom >< she is constantly reading “science” and therefore “knows” more than I do, we have an understanding at this point to not talk about it but she isn’t very good at talking about anything else and has had the conspiracy mindset since before I was born
Same with my mom. She loves to be contrary and isn't really on either side of left or right conspiracies. She's definitely "smarter" than me, but she uses it to reinforce whatever she wants to believe in. She'll overwhelm me with "evidence" that I have no time to go though when I'm just a busy working mom, and she has the advantage of being retired and having all the free time in the world.
I think she just wants to feel special, so I'm just trying to give her more attention that has nothing to do with politics.
Pros
-Very down to earth, good points, not talking down to the viewer
Cons
-Has Nostalgia Critic inspired evil alter ego
I was thinking it was like Knowing Better
From what I've seen, most conspiracy theorists suffer from a combination of a victim complex and lack of scientific literacy. If you explain why you believe that, say, vaccines don't cause Autism, and then ask them why they do believe it, you might get somewhere. But also keep in mind that even when explaining your points clearly and respectfully, you might still get treated like a naïve child by the conspiracy theorist. Some of them are like that. Some of them may resort to petty insults (I've seen this from both conspiracy theorists and from the people arguing with them). You've got a 50-50, maybe 60-40 shot of them actually listening to your point of view (assuming that you fairly listened to their point of view). I'm stuck with ones who assume they know better than me just because they're older and don't really listen when I try to explain scientific phenomena that they don't understand. But I think there's hope for other people to see that maybe the Earth is round, and vaccines don't cause Autism, covid is real, and the covid vaccine isn't a mind control device.
yeah, I think there's a fear factor in here though
@@hazukifujiwara6023 Yeah, definitely some of that too. A lot of times, conspiracy theories come from fear (usually fear of the future or the unknown).
Scientically speaking, Vaccines themselves don't cause Autism. They however can cause a Fever, which can lead to Autism. But the Numbers are so insignificant, that it doesn't even matter.
I love the art direction of this. Some serious Natalie Wynn energy with a splash of Abigail Thorn. ⚡⚡
This means so much to me! Thank you!
Why the f*** would you care about contrapoints real name
Just call her by a screen name it's a lot easier for people to know
It's the name she adopted for her screen persona
@@andersanders47 no, more like I'm annoyed that I had to go to the effort I'm looking up
They use that screen handles for a reason
@@anarchomando7707 Jesus dude, what if you hadn't known her channel name either? Ya she's a little tiny bit more widely recognizable that way but what if you'd never heard of her at all? You would've still had to look her up. Natalie is her name, we'll call her Natalie if we want to, the world doesn't revolve around you and your preferences.
@@anarchomando7707
I mean, you just open a browser tab, go on Google if it hasn't popped up already, type the name into the search bar, and the rest sort of falls into place. It's just a few seconds and the bodily exertion of moving a few fingers to click a screen and type some letters on a keyboard.
I think calling conspiracy theories conspiracy theories is kind of a misnomer. They don’t meet the bar of standing up to peer scrutiny. I think conspiracy hypotheses is more applicable
You're an asshole, because so many of them do hold the water they claim. But you tell yourself that. Guessing that you already took the shot and will follow the path they give you to the end you are leading yourself to an early grave, then we don't have to listen to you anymore. Nice.
@@im3phirebird81 No, many of them don't hold up to any scrutiny. Most conspiracy theories are conjectures at best. Most conspiracies theories don't have a big enough body of evidence to even be considered a theory. Just a group of people who all believe the same thing, without being able to prove any of it. Sounds like religion.
@@Trve_Kvlt "No, many of them don't hold up to any scrutiny."
Whatever you tell yourself to sleep better at night. Do it while you can. It's gonna get ver uncomfy soon.
In the last year alone so many conspiracies have come true. But some people just want to keep sleeping until they're hit with a bat for an unpleasant awakening. You do you.
Edit: If you really can not see what is actually happening in the current scenario we are in you are either dumb or a ghoul. Both possibilities are gonna end with your demise.
@@im3phirebird81 You're so sensitive. Cope harder
@@im3phirebird81 “your don’t believe me so your going to demise 😭 my conspiracy theory are true the moon is made of cheese and if you don’t believe me your a satan” that’s exactly how you sound and it’s sad.
I've made a habit of talking to conspiracy theorists. I start out just by being receptive and asking questions to try and figure out the weirdest stuff they believe, then once I think I have a good idea I start to speak with total confidence of shit i just made up to try to make their beliefs even more cursed.
I doubt that you do that.
@@TheRonster1957 You're right I actually don't talk at all I'm actually mute.
I love your presentation style.
You are so kind and honest and well, easy to trust. I really hope that TH-cam becomes something that really grows for you. You remind me a lot of PhilosophyTube and My Little Thought Tree. I absolutely adore your content.
Also, your acting is fun. Alternate Timeline You was an awesome idea!
I'm so glad you started making videos. You bring this smart and kind perspective that is sorely missing from current TH-cam discourse.
Also, your poetry videos are 🔥.
I think the first solution: "Don't try to change their mind" is underrated. Most conspiracy theories are benign and you can clearly respect and interact with people who do believe them. Not all, not saying you should expose your kids to anti-vaxxer parties.
Censorship of dissent is the biggest cause of conspiracy theories. When truth is blocked, people have to choose between accepting establishment lies and creating their own lies. Real info dies and paranoia thrives.
14:38 minor point, but a recent unredacted section of, I think I was his grand jury material, says that Steve Bannon did infact give internal polling data from the trump campaign to a contact for a Russian oligarch. Meaning this is no longer theory, it's just fact.
I still take your point. Just wanted to leave this minor note. Mostly to make myself feel better.
Thank you for pointing that out. The real question is whether or not interference had any real or measurable effect on the outcome of the election. If you read the report and following trials, it appears interference was at least attempted. Its good to be balanced, but we should always be careful of the 'both sides' pitfall some of us fall into.
Contempt for the conmen, compassion for the conned.
Any kind of corporate collision like a cartel is a conspiracy.
So is it when corporate heads and politicians meet and discuss things about public policy.
They actually happen a lot, just not nearly as far-reaching as people think.
I have been a physicist for over 50 years, and to be successful, you have to challenge and analyze all your ideas in a serious way. You have all sorts of great ideas, and almost all of them are wrong in one way or another, so you have to keep thinking and correcting your world view to get to a successful model. The critical part of this is that you have to give up unsuccessful ideas quickly and move on. When I see people who get some ideas and stick with it forever in the face of all challenges, I see a sort of mental weakness and dysfunction. One of the most charming things about Nature is that she does not care what you think or believe. It is your job to adjust you world view to conform to reality.
Are we absolutely certain that "flat Earthers" aren't just trolling us with what amounts to an elaborate work of art?
I: Now this is a conspiracy I could get behind xD
ok this is a cool conspiracy theory
This is so in some cases. IIRC, many years ago the head of the British Flat Earth Society openly admitted he did not believe it. And also said he had also never lost a debate. Also, I've heard it claimed that at one point the readership of The Fortean Times was split amongst people that believed the nonsense and those who treated it as an in joke.
Great clip, Zoe! I believed all conspiracies, mentally and emotionally draining. I stopped watching and reading the news as well as media misinformation. Now I just read headlines devoting time for self development. It does wonders for the soul! 👏👍
Binge watching you, Zoe, and my ADHD brain loves you❤
in high school i was talking about the electoral college the way it sways power in elections, and that the politicians in control have some power over what's passed and who's chosen for leadership roles and a gym teacher (just happened to be in the room) asked me "do you identify as a conspiracy theorist?" as a jab at a 16 year old trying to have a discussion with him.
Loved the video personally. Kinda new to the channel, the only other one I watched being the Grammarly one, but I love the content. The skit on this one was particularly entertaining to watch. :)
But back to the topic at hand. I feel that you hit the nail right on the head. Most conspiracy theorists are not silly or stupid at all. I confess, in my low times, I have been somewhat rude to them (all of this is with respect to the Flat Earth Society), but on second thought, it is true that they do have some of the qualities which make the best scientists, but are unfortunately misguided.
Let's just take the Flat Earth (abbreviating it to FE :P) people. How many of us "Round Earthers" actually believe in the roundness on the Earth not because we read it somewhere, but because we actually thought hard about it? FE people, on the other hand actually try to come to another conclusion (albeit a wrong one) based on thought experiments, or trusting their eyes, or so on. If anything, FErs have the ability to be curious, which many of us have taken for granted.
And I also have been through the FE forums myself out of curiosity. Turns out, they did go through huge lengths to build their models. It's not jargon; you would notice things amiss if you really scrutinize, but on the surface, it reads like plausible literature if you do not go in with a bias in the first place.
Which is exactly why it is more important to engage them than rebuke them. If they went this far to establish their theory, they would (usually) be also willing to listen to criticism. Not, say, NASA images, because they distrust NASA. But other, simpler sources and events, which cannot be affected by NASA or such organizations in general. Like say, water swirling in a different direction in the two hemispheres.
Of course there are pricks in the community (all communities have them) who are just there to deny all evidence you provide to them if it does not agree with their ideas. But, if you instead pay your attention to those who ARE willing to listen, these people would then be able to convince the aforementioned 'pricks' because now, they are faced with people who come from a closer community than you do, and have a greater bond of trust.
Long story short, a lot of this could be avoided by being engaging in your education. Just telling kids facts, but not following up on them is counterproductive, because then they cannot argue if someone suggests otherwise, and thus remain prone to such conspiracy theories in the first place. Another example of this from a personal experience is about people demonizing the Covid-19 vaccine, citing that most of the people who took the shots later tested positive for the virus. If you tell people that vaccines will help you, but not how they help, this is expected (for people interested, vaccines emulate a non-lethal version of the pathogen, tricking your body into thinking that you have been infected. Thus the body prepares to fight it off, and this gets memorized by your body, so that if you do catch the real deal, the body does not need to go through the whole preparation phase; it will get to work right away as it knows what to do already, so it'll be effective in fighting from the beginning. Does this mean you are invincible? Not really. Vaccines improve the reaction time, but does not make your body a Virus Terminator. Why is this important? Because as vaccines trick your body into thinking you've been infected, they also trick the tests into thinking you have the virus, thus resulting in a false positive)
Long comment. But that's characteristic of me, going on an internet rant in the comment section :P. Stay smiling folks!
I'm kinda disappointed with the presentation here implying that all conspiracy theories are equally valid. Some theories have a great deal more evidence than others, they aren’t all the same thing.
27:05
Yes. By her definition we are almost all conspiricy theorists. She started the video by watering down the subject so much as to be pointless.
@@williamjenkins4913 she literally said that we all are by the actual defitnion and how she had problems with that definition but more with the negative connotations with the term.
This is a great video, but it occurred to me when you said (paraphrasing) "these are curious critical thinkers who run experiments" that none of the conspiracy theorists I know fit that description. None of them are flat earthers, all political, but they all just latch on to memes and regurgitate the rhetoric of others. None of what they say or do was earned through their own research or facts. They seemingly latched onto it because it simply supported their world view. How do you deal with these kinds of conspiracy theorists?
choosing your older self coming from a place of pain as the opponent - that was smart. and endearing. thank you.