Good morning Drach, I have a kind of borderline question for you. I guess you're familiar with the Advanced Large Artillery Ship concept, or at least have an idea about what it is (basically a modern battleship); I've been wondering how feasible this concept would actually be. I know you tend to steer clear of modern warships and politics (and rightfully so), but do you think the concept would work in the modern war environment?To me the concept of the modern battleship is more about survivability in a war zone, as opposed to dish out punishment on enemy vessels, as modern weapons can reach tens of times further than a gun could, that's why it 'only' has three triple 12in turrets. Such a ship, in my opinion, would have modern electronics and radars, as well as ASW weapons such as the 3K95 Kinzhal (SA-N-9) and RBU-1000 mortars, since torpedoes pose the most significant threat, and no amount of anti-torpedo protection would effectively protect a vessel. Do you think a ship could be reasonably protected (with armour) against such weapons, missiles and shells on one hand, and torpedoes on the other? One more question on a side note: do you know of the series of 'incidents' that befell USN and Soviet submarines in the 1970s, when they got chewed up by Cookie-Cutter sharks? Apparently said fish considers neoprene rubber to be a fine delicacy. If you haven't, I suggest you to check out Trey the Explainer's video on the incident, it is quite amusing and informative.
I recently rewatched your video on the second pacific squadron. In it you mentioned that Rozhestvensky had wanted the tsar to acquire more modern cruisers from Chile/Argentina. How might the outcome of Tsushima changed if these were sent either in place of or in addition to the Third Pacific squadron?
If the washington naval conference failed and resulted in an armsrace between the anglo-Japanede and the USA, who would have won if war broke out in 1936 ?
Well, Drach _did_ try to explain it... th-cam.com/video/eQ5Ru7Zu_1I/w-d-xo.html Although the theory that it was possessed by the ghost of the Kamchatka is alsio attractive...
it's a prime lesson in the dangers of bureaucratic overreach, sadly lost on current government organisations and large corporate departments (Boeing, cough, cough) worldwide.
@@nebufabu It's definetly not unreasonable to suspect that, upon further investigating the cause for the egregious mismanagement at the Bureau of Ordnance, the trail of incompetence will lead back all the way to the Tsushima Strait, possibly in the form of binoculars scattered across the ocean floor.
"A remarkable display of accuracy. And a minor display of overkill." "liberating two further ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy." "produced with the usual helpful sabotage of the US torpedo building establishment."
6:43 "firing torpedoes in all directions' I'm sorry, am I the only who imagined a sub spinning wildly on all its axes a la The Last Starfighter's Death Blossom?
A little story, when I was about 14 (1980 IIRC), my family took a vacation to Maine. In a little bookstore on the water, I found Dick O'Kane's book "Clear the Bridge". I had become enamored with "Run Silent, Run Deep" and the follow on "Dust on the Sea" and immediately fixated on O'Kane's book. The woman who owned the store came over and spoke with me about it. She told me her brother was the navigation officer on the Tang when she went down and he never made it back. That was my awakening that life was not all wine and roses and that men died to keep us free. "Clear the Bridge" has always had a special place in my library ever since and every few years I bring it out and read it again. Thank you for this video on one of the special ones.
@@mrpagrant Yes, I have! The one about nuclear submarines under the ice. I've also read his account of the Triton's journey around the world submerged.
Have you read Clay Blair's _Silent Victory_ ? It's very heavy on the statistics, but an essential guide to the submarine campaign against Japan in WW2.
@@mrpagrant My favorite book by Ned Beach is "Submarine!". Admittedly dramatic in its combat descriptions, it is nonetheless a rare intimate view of life aboard in WWII.
American submarines are truly one of the most underdressed aspects of WW2. The American sub fleet was superb, and it accomplished what the Germans did not: bringing a powerful island nation to its knees through commerce warfare.
Arguably the Allied Powers had far more investment in convoy escorts and developing a convoy system than the japanese did, so it was probably an easier job to do.
Not comparable. Germans were the avant garde and after 42 face vastly superior enemy than the Japanese. Benign in a sub in the Atlantic after 43 was basically suicide
Actually, O'Kane had enjoyed mostly good luck with Mk 14's during his time as first officer on USS Wahoo. They completed a number of successful patrols and had suffered few dud torpedoes. It seems that his skipper, Cdr. "Mush" Morton, had a habit of firing his torpedoes once the Japanese ships were a bit past 90 degrees angle-on-bow, causing them to strike the target at an angle. Coincidentally, that just happened to be the angle at which the Mk 14 was least likely to fail. So, he personally probably wasn't as jaundiced about the Mk 14 as some other skippers were. The successful patrols of USS Wahoo and a few other submarines was one of the things which hindered the navy in identifying that the Mk 14 had a problem for so long. Some skippers would return from patrol reporting dud torpedoes, while guys like Morton came back reporting that they seem to be working fine and handing in the sinking claims to prove it. This led the navy to conclude that the torpedo failures were most likely due to either bad aim or poor torpedo maintenance during the patrol. Eventually, and after O'Kane had moved on to his own command, even Morton started having trouble with the Mk 14's. That combined with the continuing reports of failure from other skippers is what finally prompted the navy to start testing more rigorously and discovering the Mk 14's flaws. By the time O'Kane sailed in command of USS Tang, the problems the Mk 14 had were resolved, at least to the extent that they ever were. Of course, I'm sure he took his hatred of the Mk 18 torpedo to his grave.
@@silentotto5099 Thats called a constant bearing attack, periscoped at 10° off the bow bearing, must know targets speed. You shoot when the target crosses the scope. No matter the range of the shot is almost a garanteed hit.
Random thought/request: Early steam turbines and Charles Parsons. I mean it's a real-life sci-fi story that unfortunately isn't widely known, and would be perfect for Drachinifel treatment...
@@czarfore Yes. That's the best-known part. But then there's also the whole sinking of the HMS Cobra affair (My favourite factoid about it is that after that RN never named ships after snakes, just to be sure) and before either of those, the matter of him spending years not actually having rights to build his own turbines and trying all kinds of workarounds (he finally managed to buy the patent back) and of course, all the engineering that went into making the turbines actually work on a ship.
Could you do a video on the submarine HMS Venturer, being the only submarine to have sunk another while both were submerged, would be a great video to here, could even be a special.
The story of the Tang is one of the most interesting in WW2. Dick O'Kane wrote a book about it, "Clear the Bridge", which is well worth reading. So rig for dive and take her down Go down down underneath the ocean Fearless men will find renoun In the deep blue underneath the sea
I had the privilege of meeting Admiral O'Kane at a book signing for his second book about USS Wahoo. I had come to the bookstore just before closing and thought I was too late to get my copy of "Clear The Bridge" signed as well but, luckily of me, Admiral O'Kane was still there, and he spent about 25 minutes chatting with me after I let him know I was a great admirer of submarines in general and him and "Mush" Morton in particular. One subject we talked about was his ability to pick officers that performed so well during his command of the Tang. He said he had two criteria - how well the officer played cribbage and bridge. Playing the candidate a game of cribbage, and having him be his partner in a bridge game gave him immediate feedback on his ability to think tactically, plan strategically, go in for the kill at the right time, and remain pleasant for the whole game. Since I play both games, that struck me as a brilliant employment test, and there were a few times I surprised people applying for management positions in my own firm when I hauled out a cribbage board from my desk drawer!
The US Navy in its infinite wisdom had decided to name its submarines after fish. Thus you get names like Tang and Wahoo. I think it deserves to be mentioned that O'Kane learned his craft at the side of his skipper Mush Morgan on the Wahoo where O'Kane served as the first officer and personally calculated many of the torpedo shots made by that sub. O'Kane's assignment to the Tang was largely due to the training he received from Morton and was fortuitous as shortly after his transfer the Wahoo was lost without a trace.
Not without a trace. She was sunk by Japanese ASW forces in La Perouse Strait exiting the Sea of Japan. Most likely struck mines when she was forced down by aircraft. Witnesses saw two large underwater explosions shortly after she submerged.
Nope, Japanese records disclosed her location and outcome right after the war. 05/06 was first time she was located by sonar, but her general location was already known.
I met Admiral O Kane not long before he passed away. This was at his granddaughter's house. She was married to one of my best friends. He sadly suffered from dementia, although he died from pneumonia and passed not long after I met him. His granddaughter and grandson as well as his wife, daughter and grandchildren went to see the launching of the USS O Kane, a new destroyer, in 1999. He was a true hero.
any time I hear "small targets presenting themselves" in relation to a fleet boat I can't help it: my Silent Hunter 4 instincts kick in and I literally just say "Why use the gun? Just ram them!" (for those who have never played it, ramming sampans in SH4 is more amusing that it really should be). Excellent video as always!
@Yar Nunya if you ever can, find Hualien on Taiwan: It's not named so I don't think it's active correctly: the two guard ships just sit there. I literally charged in firing my deck gun once just to be stupid XD
- So, gentlemen, what new designs you have to reinforce our Subs arsenal? - Not much, sir.... well, unless we count that boomerang torpedo project we made for the lulz. - Sure, whatever, I'll take it.
After being (self) torpedo'ed, the Tang's stern hit bottom, with her bow sticking up above the surface. The remaining crew, then flooded the forward ballast tanks, dropping the bow to the sea floor so she would lay flat, and would make her harder to find by the probing destroyers above. They then rode out a depth charge, and ascended to the surface using the forward escape trunk. CDR O'Kane and the rest of the bridge crew were thrown overboard by the explosion.
"Celebrated Independence Day by liberating two further ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy" Thank you so much for such wonderfully-memorable lines :)
Drachinifel - always in good form; this time in rare form! It occurred to me: The International Union of Concerned Naval Historians should sponsor a *Kamchatka Award.* Presented, say, quadrancentennially, the award recognizes the navy command which has done the most to discredit or undermine its own national military efforts.
"Celebrated independance day by liberating two futher ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy" As an American that has to be the most patriotic sentence I've ever heard o7
Mush Morton, the CO of Wahoo, was unusual in that he let his executive officer man the periscope during an attack while he (Morton) concentrated on the big picture (evaluated what was happening with all the contacts, checked the plots and the torpedo data computer, and maneuvered the boat to get into a firing position). This O’Kane was uniquely experienced when he took command of Tang. One of his fellow POWs was the legendary Pappy Boyington who also received the Medal of Honor.
We have an industrial park called Wahoo Drive nearby. Technically, the area is called Wahoo Drive, but the company built the area so they could build the park. I believe the son of the guy who had it built served on the Wahoo. The Wahoo's screw and one of its torpedoes serve as a monument to the boat at the entrance to the park.
Imagine the stress and chaos that ensued after the errant torpedo came back around and sunk their boat, in a matter of seconds. The initial attitude of the boat was at approximately 60 degrees bow up, with the bow actually clearing the surface. Now, consider this; the remaining crew onboard knew the water depth and had the presence of mind to actually trim the boat by flooding ballast tanks forward to bring the boat to level attitude, resting on the ocean floor. They then deployed the buoy/rope to the surface and organized the possible egress through the escape trunk. BTW All modern subs still use this basic design for the escape trunk. Next, they actually were able to get over a dozen crewmen out of the forward torpedo room via the escape trunk, in small groups, until the remaining crew was probably overcome by noxious fumes from the battery fire. The cool headed bravery, dedication and professionalism of these sub crews is astounding and awe inspiring. Adm. Dick O'Kane's book, 'Clear the Bridge!' is his account of his WW2 service and chronicles his cruises on the 'Wahoo' and 'Tang'. It is must reading for anyone interested in military history.
I'm currently reading through "Clear the Bridge!" for the third time. Excellent read in all respects. If Edward Beach's "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Dust on the Sea" epitomize WWII submarine action, Dick O'Kane underpins them with the cold reality that Beach compiled into his own fictional tale. This clip was an effective summary of the Tang's war patrols, but the essence is in the details, which you have to read the book for.
Brother was on the TangII one of the US's last diesel boat in the US Navy. While he was stationed in San Diego bought a copy of Dick "Killer" O'Kane's book on the tang. "Clear the Bridge" autographed to me. Great book by the way. Keep up the Great work Drac
Honestly man these videos are brilliant. I like how you throw in sarcastic and witty comments like "quadkill" or my favorite, as referring to the flower class. "Rolling uncontrollably through the morning dew" Keep up the good work man
My Grandfather Charles Brethauer was a submariner on the Tang's sister ship the U.S.S. Bang. He told me many stories (quite scary) about his tour of duty on the high seas though the end of the war. I wish I could relay them all here but it's more than space and time will allow. Thank you for posting this video and keeping the memory of this incredible chapter of history alive. Sadly Charlie is long gone, he died of bone cancer that I am sure was a lasting legacy of his later service in classified (nuclear) programs later in his life. Pouring one in your Honor Charlie, you were a good man.
Not to quibble about your grandfather' death, as I don't know the circumstances. he served long, honorably, and I would call his passing to be "In the line of Duty." However, Rickover was a real stickler (Some said real bastard) about safety on his nuclear boats and demanded that reactor shielding and materials handling procedures meet or exceed those set for civilian use. Regarding downgrading protections for the crews, he is supposed to have said something like this to his Safety Team: "If one of my young sailor's wives gives birth to a two-headed baby, you don't have to explain it, *I do* !
She was such a badass that literally the only ship that could sink her... was herself. What a fascinating story, I wouldn’t mind getting an extended version with more detail on her exploits. *hint hint* 😉
Could you do a guide to the USS Silversides SS-236? She's in my hometown, a long way from the ocean btw, but she's in great shape and she's one of the top scoring WWII US subs preserved.
I'm late to this video but there are three points I'd like to offer. 1) A well regarded WWII submariner stated on the record that, regarding torpedo performance, there were people at BUORD who were CULPABLY negligent in carrying out their duties. 2) O'Kane in his book stated that he conducted his own test depth experiments by "stepping down" submergence depth to 712 feet. The thick hulled boats were built to a test depth of 600 feet but were limited to 400 feet due to noisy and ineffective trim/bilge pumps and shaft seals. 3) Sadly later in life Admiral O'Kane suffered from Alzheimer's disease. His wife would take him for walks along the beach. He would look out over the ocean and mutter "Must get them out - Must get them out" A further note: O'Kane gave his fiancé a ring for Valentines Day 1936. She lost the ring in the surf at Waikiki a year later. Completely by accident, it was found by a person using a metal detector and returned to her and Adm O'Kane in 1985.
There is so much information on German subs during this era. Thanks for covering some US subs. Would really like to see some stories about English/Polish subs also if you feel up for it! Thanks Drach.
drach videos are so terse and to the point. i can't decide if i like this style or not. But i know i hate people who can't get to the point when they talk.
I have a copy of each of Dick O'Kane's books, one about USS Wahoo ("Wahoo") and the other about USS Tang ("Clear The Bridge"). Great reads, highly recommended if you want to learn about USN submarine operations in WW2 on two of the greatest they had, written by surely one of their greatest officers. There are SO many details in them it's impossible to convey just how fascinating it is if you're genuinely interested. Wahoo is really interesting in part because it highlights issues the USN had with its commanding officers who rose during peace times and thus with doctrines and attitudes that didn't at all match what it turned out was necessary for effective use of these weapons. "Mush" Morton, who took command of Wahoo, went on to show what could be done. He also had the highly unusual method of having O'Kane, his exec, do periscope observations on attacks as he felt it left him able to see "the big picture". Also had a different way of using the torpedo data computer (TDC) compared with normal training. Given Drach mentioned the "loss of depth control" and the depth she went to, O'Kane already KNEW that Tang could go safely to about 650ft. He knew this because ONE of the things he did during trials etc was a very careful series of tests intended to see just where she could reach safely. This included having wooden overlapping slats inside the boat so hull compression could be measured. He had her trimmed with an up angle of about 3 degrees, so she would rise without active dive plane inputs. He also wanted the main gun positioned aft of the tower, not forward. I seem to recall he concluded "I won the argument, but the gun stayed where it was" when it comes to that. In fact it's pretty remarkable hearing all the different ways crews could alter things. As I said, if you want to learn REAL details about how these boats operated, and the remarkable exploits of Tang in particular, you absolutely ought to read them.
I'd call this boat an overachiever, but y'know, she was just trying to live up to legacy the USS Johnston left behind. Can't let the tin cans have all the fun.
I live a few minutes away from the old Mare Island dockyard. Some of the old dry-docks are still up but it's mostly abandoned factories and old bunker complexes. My great grandfather and my grandfather used to work on submarines over there decades ago.
That photo of the rescued airmen @4:00 really shows you just how young those guys were. Most look to be in their late teens or early 20s. It's always bugged me that Hollywood shows the servicemen of WW2 to mostly be in their mid 30s; it just deemphasizes how young those men were.
Give the USS Albacore some love. That sub's one of the better known US submarines in Asia, but is relatively unknown in it's own country compared to Tang and Wahoo.
I just love it how japanese were able to construct such advanced submarines as infamous in it's lack of action I-400, BUT at the same time completly ignore 1)all the potential of actually using them; 2)realising said potential in hands of the enemy and taking steps in defending themselves.
The United States military has always understood the importance of denying their opposition supplies. Examples such as The Anaconda and Sherman’s March on Georgia come to mind. The Japanese Navy seem to have been obsessed with big fleet battles. The IJN was waiting to use its units in battles that never happened.
Francesco Nicoletti The Japanese were focused on grinding away at the main American fleet then defeating the remainder quickly, and trying to come to a negotiated peace. They didn’t bother with enemy logistics much, mostly because they knew that was a game they were going to lose immediately: trying to cut off supplies to the USN was going to be literally impossible. Their own logistics, however, were genuinely a case of major incompetence somewhere. As for them saving their battleships for battles that never happened, that only applies to the first few months: later on they didn’t use their battleships because they *couldn’t* use them cost-effectively (for the simple reason that battleships were conceptually obsolete in WWII). The USN used their battleships for supporting roles that battleships were never designed for or cost-effective at, and got away with this because they could afford to waste tens of billions of dollars: had the USN not bothered with building and deploying new battleships in WWII, they would have had an even more crushing advantage over Japan.
The I-400's were put to sea at the end of the war and had interiors made from wood and bunks made of straw. They were rat infested. I was at a submarine convention in the late 90's and talked with a man who brought the I-400 to Hawaii after the surrender. He told me al about it and how miserable it was aboard.
I love this ship... they should make a movie about her. XO under Mush Morton... I like how Mush used his XO to look through the periscope when attacking as to stay emotionally detached. O'Kane did the same thing.... They are legends man
"...the Tang and her crew had less than two years of World War II left to run, so they'd have to get 'stuck in' if they wanted to make an impression." 0:59 Now, now Drac, this is a family show.
Ahhh yes the Tang....a wonderfully flavored powdered drink. Oh wait sorry...this is about the fantastic submarine who tried to sink the entire Japanese Navy. As well as create many many new artificial reefs.
Have you considered doing a episode of USS Silversides? Third in tonnage sunk, an appendectomy performed on board and perhaps the only American submarine who attacked dragging a Japanese fishing float waving merrily
Hey Drac! Sub stories remind me of the subs built by the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company in Wisconsin during WWII. I would think they had to hold a record for the naval combat vessels built farthest from salt water. They traveled about 1100 miles to get to the Gulf of Mexico. I understand that was how they got to the sea though I don't know why they could not have traveled the Great Lakes to the Saint Lawrence .
Had to drop in on this video again, since I just finished reading The War Below, the concluding chapters of which covered the sinking of Tang and the survivors' time in Japanese POW camps as "special prisoners." It's quite a harrowing tale to read in detail.
I'd like to see a video about the IJN's development of their very successful ASW program. How did they get such good equipment, trained crews, scientific expertise and manufacturing capabilities? This was another one of your excellent presentations. Thank you.
I read Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the U.S.S. Tang by her captain, Richard O Kane when I was in school. I remember it as a good read - would be good to have a second look and see if it holds up
As Chief of the Watch, operating the Ballast Control Panel I had the privilege of "relieving (my boat) from the shackles of positive buoyancy" several times per watch................................
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Good morning Drach, I have a kind of borderline question for you. I guess you're familiar with the Advanced Large Artillery Ship concept, or at least have an idea about what it is (basically a modern battleship); I've been wondering how feasible this concept would actually be. I know you tend to steer clear of modern warships and politics (and rightfully so), but do you think the concept would work in the modern war environment?To me the concept of the modern battleship is more about survivability in a war zone, as opposed to dish out punishment on enemy vessels, as modern weapons can reach tens of times further than a gun could, that's why it 'only' has three triple 12in turrets. Such a ship, in my opinion, would have modern electronics and radars, as well as ASW weapons such as the 3K95 Kinzhal (SA-N-9) and RBU-1000 mortars, since torpedoes pose the most significant threat, and no amount of anti-torpedo protection would effectively protect a vessel. Do you think a ship could be reasonably protected (with armour) against such weapons, missiles and shells on one hand, and torpedoes on the other?
One more question on a side note: do you know of the series of 'incidents' that befell USN and Soviet submarines in the 1970s, when they got chewed up by Cookie-Cutter sharks? Apparently said fish considers neoprene rubber to be a fine delicacy. If you haven't, I suggest you to check out Trey the Explainer's video on the incident, it is quite amusing and informative.
I recently rewatched your video on the second pacific squadron. In it you mentioned that Rozhestvensky had wanted the tsar to acquire more modern cruisers from Chile/Argentina. How might the outcome of Tsushima changed if these were sent either in place of or in addition to the Third Pacific squadron?
Hi, do the Canadian WW2 warships. Won't take too much time except for HMCS Haida. Unless, you transgress to the merchant marine.
If the washington naval conference failed and resulted in an armsrace between the anglo-Japanede and the USA, who would have won if war broke out in 1936 ?
Do a show on Sir William Stephenson. He crossed the Atlantic 43 times in WW2.
The US Navy's torpedo department in WW2 is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries known to mankind
Well, Drach _did_ try to explain it... th-cam.com/video/eQ5Ru7Zu_1I/w-d-xo.html Although the theory that it was possessed by the ghost of the Kamchatka is alsio attractive...
it's a prime lesson in the dangers of bureaucratic overreach, sadly lost on current government organisations and large corporate departments (Boeing, cough, cough) worldwide.
Never attribute to evil intent, that which can be explained by bureaucratic stupidity.
@@nebufabu It's definetly not unreasonable to suspect that, upon further investigating the cause for the egregious mismanagement at the Bureau of Ordnance, the trail of incompetence will lead back all the way to the Tsushima Strait, possibly in the form of binoculars scattered across the ocean floor.
It is just a demonstration of why militaries must be diligent in removing stupid energetic officers from their ranks.
Celebrated independence day by liberating 2 further ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy
-Drachinifel 2020
Converting surface ships to submarines.
@@thomas316 No. Made into permanent deep-sea observatories. Submarines can (usually) get back to the surface - which isn't the case for those ships.
Loved that
I know. Hilarious! Where does Drach come up this stuff. Comedic gold! I Vote funniest Ep ever!
And this is why Drach rules! It's almost like if World at War and Monty Python had a love child.
Liberating two more ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy?
Honestly Drach, quite droll. Bravo
🤣😂😂😂😂😂
That gave me a hearty guffaw!
Drach and droll, that's how he rolls...
Almost as droll as drowning in burning fuel oil
Sudden existance failure...is still my favourite...but thats a close second
She was so successful that she even wanted the privilege of sunking the USN's most successful submarine.
wonder if they counter her own tonnage in the total
I feel bad for laughing...
Yeah but did the Tang sink a train?
@@dubspool alas, there were no trains in her patrol areas. She did shell a Japanese position though.
@@dubspool You've been watching Operation Petticoat. We sunk a truck! th-cam.com/video/GpEcU0OEzhc/w-d-xo.html
Uss Tang: You get a torpedo, you get a torpedo and you get a torpedo.
Crew: Haha Lol
Uss Tang: And we get a torpedo
Crew: Haha..... Wait.
BOOOOOM!!!1
"A remarkable display of accuracy. And a minor display of overkill."
"liberating two further ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy."
"produced with the usual helpful sabotage of the US torpedo building establishment."
6:43 "firing torpedoes in all directions'
I'm sorry, am I the only who imagined a sub spinning wildly on all its axes a la The Last Starfighter's Death Blossom?
too funny.....made me have a coughing fit.
I was thinking the same thing my friend! lol
I was more thinking like Willem Dafoe in Boondock Saints... "THERE WAS A FIREFIIIIIIIGGGGHHHTT!!!!"
Death Blossom - A rather Fittingly Japanese-esk Name...
no, u wernt
"Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right B, A, Start."
-*Captain of the Tang*
A little story, when I was about 14 (1980 IIRC), my family took a vacation to Maine. In a little bookstore on the water, I found Dick O'Kane's book "Clear the Bridge". I had become enamored with "Run Silent, Run Deep" and the follow on "Dust on the Sea" and immediately fixated on O'Kane's book. The woman who owned the store came over and spoke with me about it. She told me her brother was the navigation officer on the Tang when she went down and he never made it back. That was my awakening that life was not all wine and roses and that men died to keep us free. "Clear the Bridge" has always had a special place in my library ever since and every few years I bring it out and read it again. Thank you for this video on one of the special ones.
If you read the first 2 books in Captain Beach's trilogy, (Run Silent, Run Deep & Dust on the Sea), did you ever read the third, "Cold is the Sea"?
@@mrpagrant Yes, I have! The one about nuclear submarines under the ice. I've also read his account of the Triton's journey around the world submerged.
Have you read Clay Blair's _Silent Victory_ ? It's very heavy on the statistics, but an essential guide to the submarine campaign against Japan in WW2.
@@condorboss3339 I've read about 1/3 of it, I need to go back to it. Maybe with all this "social distancing"...
@@mrpagrant My favorite book by Ned Beach is "Submarine!". Admittedly dramatic in its combat descriptions, it is nonetheless a rare intimate view of life aboard in WWII.
American submarines are truly one of the most underdressed aspects of WW2. The American sub fleet was superb, and it accomplished what the Germans did not: bringing a powerful island nation to its knees through commerce warfare.
Arguably the Allied Powers had far more investment in convoy escorts and developing a convoy system than the japanese did, so it was probably an easier job to do.
To be fair, the IJN didn't have near the ASW capabilities of the US and Britain.
Not comparable. Germans were the avant garde and after 42 face vastly superior enemy than the Japanese. Benign in a sub in the Atlantic after 43 was basically suicide
@2:17 overkill is underrated.
Considering what the US crews went through before with Mk 14's I guess they still didn't fully trust them
Actually, O'Kane had enjoyed mostly good luck with Mk 14's during his time as first officer on USS Wahoo. They completed a number of successful patrols and had suffered few dud torpedoes. It seems that his skipper, Cdr. "Mush" Morton, had a habit of firing his torpedoes once the Japanese ships were a bit past 90 degrees angle-on-bow, causing them to strike the target at an angle. Coincidentally, that just happened to be the angle at which the Mk 14 was least likely to fail. So, he personally probably wasn't as jaundiced about the Mk 14 as some other skippers were.
The successful patrols of USS Wahoo and a few other submarines was one of the things which hindered the navy in identifying that the Mk 14 had a problem for so long. Some skippers would return from patrol reporting dud torpedoes, while guys like Morton came back reporting that they seem to be working fine and handing in the sinking claims to prove it. This led the navy to conclude that the torpedo failures were most likely due to either bad aim or poor torpedo maintenance during the patrol. Eventually, and after O'Kane had moved on to his own command, even Morton started having trouble with the Mk 14's. That combined with the continuing reports of failure from other skippers is what finally prompted the navy to start testing more rigorously and discovering the Mk 14's flaws. By the time O'Kane sailed in command of USS Tang, the problems the Mk 14 had were resolved, at least to the extent that they ever were.
Of course, I'm sure he took his hatred of the Mk 18 torpedo to his grave.
@@silentotto5099 Thats called a constant bearing attack, periscoped at 10° off the bow bearing, must know targets speed. You shoot when the target crosses the scope. No matter the range of the shot is almost a garanteed hit.
“The Shackles of Positive Buoyancy”
I really needed a laugh this morning Drach, so thank you.
I'm just imagining a submarine singing:
"Under the sea
Darling it's better
Down where it's wetter!"
and convincing a surface ship to join them.
she rolled a nat 20 on seduction
Random thought/request: Early steam turbines and Charles Parsons. I mean it's a real-life sci-fi story that unfortunately isn't widely known, and would be perfect for Drachinifel treatment...
If you join Drach's Patreon you can nominate this to be voted on by other patrons.
That sounds very interesting. 👍
Didn't Parsons disrupt a RN review with an experimental boat called the Turbinia?
@@czarfore Yes. That's the best-known part. But then there's also the whole sinking of the HMS Cobra affair (My favourite factoid about it is that after that RN never named ships after snakes, just to be sure) and before either of those, the matter of him spending years not actually having rights to build his own turbines and trying all kinds of workarounds (he finally managed to buy the patent back) and of course, all the engineering that went into making the turbines actually work on a ship.
"New area with a higher difficulty setting" - lol.
Could you do a video on the submarine HMS Venturer, being the only submarine to have sunk another while both were submerged, would be a great video to here, could even be a special.
The Tang did sunk a submerged submarine you know.
@@Eanki_ no it didn't
@@Alex-cw3rz Tang wasn't submerged when her torpedo came back around to hit her?
@@Eanki_ aha, Good point she did sink herself
There was a US Navy submarine sink 3 Japanese submarines in 72 hours. Do not recall the name though
The story of the Tang is one of the most interesting in WW2. Dick O'Kane wrote a book about it, "Clear the Bridge", which is well worth reading.
So rig for dive and take her down
Go down down underneath the ocean
Fearless men will find renoun
In the deep blue underneath the sea
I have O'Kane's other book "Wahoo" on my book shelf.
I have this book, excellent!
I've now read both of Dick O'Kane's books: excellent.
Submariners are an amazing breed. And people questioned my sanity for "jumping out of a perfectly good airplane" I salute these brave men.
Quadrakill Drach your great
That sudden voice scared the shit out of me.
And Mrs. Drach too.
I had the privilege of meeting Admiral O'Kane at a book signing for his second book about USS Wahoo. I had come to the bookstore just before closing and thought I was too late to get my copy of "Clear The Bridge" signed as well but, luckily of me, Admiral O'Kane was still there, and he spent about 25 minutes chatting with me after I let him know I was a great admirer of submarines in general and him and "Mush" Morton in particular. One subject we talked about was his ability to pick officers that performed so well during his command of the Tang. He said he had two criteria - how well the officer played cribbage and bridge. Playing the candidate a game of cribbage, and having him be his partner in a bridge game gave him immediate feedback on his ability to think tactically, plan strategically, go in for the kill at the right time, and remain pleasant for the whole game. Since I play both games, that struck me as a brilliant employment test, and there were a few times I surprised people applying for management positions in my own firm when I hauled out a cribbage board from my desk drawer!
While Kane was playing Cribbage and Bridge in the wardroom, the enlisted guys were playing Acey-Ducey back aft on the tables in the crew's mess.
She sunk the most successful submarine in the US navy
By Herself
No other ships would've been worthy of sinking USS Tang.
Does USS Tang run exclusively on powdered orange juice?
Or... did the person who invented that beverage descend from one who served upon her?
By the Emperor! 🤦♂️👍
Oh man! Tang has disappeared from my local shops about 5 years ago and I miss it.
@@vaclav_fejt I know. It made for a great dishwasher cleaner.
@@BatteryH1862 I used to snort that stuff as a kid. My nose wanted that vitamin C too.
Mango was the best one.
The US Navy in its infinite wisdom had decided to name its submarines after fish. Thus you get names like Tang and Wahoo. I think it deserves to be mentioned that O'Kane learned his craft at the side of his skipper Mush Morgan on the Wahoo where O'Kane served as the first officer and personally calculated many of the torpedo shots made by that sub. O'Kane's assignment to the Tang was largely due to the training he received from Morton and was fortuitous as shortly after his transfer the Wahoo was lost without a trace.
Not without a trace. She was sunk by Japanese ASW forces in La Perouse Strait exiting the Sea of Japan. Most likely struck mines when she was forced down by aircraft. Witnesses saw two large underwater explosions shortly after she submerged.
@@patrickmccrann991 According to the infallible wikipedia, the wreck of the _Wahoo_ was found in 2005 and identified in 2006.
Nope, Japanese records disclosed her location and outcome right after the war. 05/06 was first time she was located by sonar, but her general location was already known.
@@patrickmccrann991 Sorry. Misread your earlier comment as implying the _Wahoo_ had not been located.
I met Admiral O Kane not long before he passed away. This was at his granddaughter's house. She was married to one of my best friends. He sadly suffered from dementia, although he died from pneumonia and passed not long after I met him. His granddaughter and grandson as well as his wife, daughter and grandchildren went to see the launching of the USS O Kane, a new destroyer, in 1999. He was a true hero.
The men of USS Tang, hero's all. "Fair Winds and Following Seas" to the survivors and to those still on patrol.
any time I hear "small targets presenting themselves" in relation to a fleet boat I can't help it: my Silent Hunter 4 instincts kick in and I literally just say "Why use the gun? Just ram them!"
(for those who have never played it, ramming sampans in SH4 is more amusing that it really should be). Excellent video as always!
@Yar Nunya if you ever can, find Hualien on Taiwan: It's not named so I don't think it's active correctly: the two guard ships just sit there. I literally charged in firing my deck gun once just to be stupid XD
- So, gentlemen, what new designs you have to reinforce our Subs arsenal?
- Not much, sir.... well, unless we count that boomerang torpedo project we made for the lulz.
- Sure, whatever, I'll take it.
After being (self) torpedo'ed, the Tang's stern hit bottom, with her bow sticking up above the surface. The remaining crew, then flooded the forward ballast tanks, dropping the bow to the sea floor so she would lay flat, and would make her harder to find by the probing destroyers above. They then rode out a depth charge, and ascended to the surface using the forward escape trunk. CDR O'Kane and the rest of the bridge crew were thrown overboard by the explosion.
I love how he accepted that japanese sailor beating like a champ.
"Celebrated Independence Day by liberating two further ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy"
Thank you so much for such wonderfully-memorable lines :)
My Father served on subs during WW2, I heard about Wahoo and Tang when a young boy, also Sam Dealey who commanded Harder.
Amazing ship. O'Kane learned a lot from Morton, a very aggressive, if not controversial sub captain.
Did the tonnage include herself?
Drachinifel - always in good form; this time in rare form!
It occurred to me: The International Union of Concerned Naval Historians should sponsor a *Kamchatka Award.*
Presented, say, quadrancentennially, the award recognizes the navy command which has done the most to discredit or undermine its own national military efforts.
"Tang" in danish means "Seaweed"
Too bad for the Japanese that Round-Up doesn't work on submarines.
Asbjörn, Tang Its in German , Seaweed
That explains why it was so successful then... the Japanese thought it was coming to help them turn Rice into onigiri or other foods.
@@Sturminfantrist Germanic language tree languages have a lot of similarities. :)
Round up works on people unfortunately
Dudum Dis
"Celebrated independance day by liberating two futher ships from the shackles of positive buoyancy" As an American that has to be the most patriotic sentence I've ever heard o7
They had Manhattan clam chowder for dinner that night
Mush Morton, the CO of Wahoo, was unusual in that he let his executive officer man the periscope during an attack while he (Morton) concentrated on the big picture (evaluated what was happening with all the contacts, checked the plots and the torpedo data computer, and maneuvered the boat to get into a firing position). This O’Kane was uniquely experienced when he took command of Tang. One of his fellow POWs was the legendary Pappy Boyington who also received the Medal of Honor.
We have an industrial park called Wahoo Drive nearby. Technically, the area is called Wahoo Drive, but the company built the area so they could build the park. I believe the son of the guy who had it built served on the Wahoo. The Wahoo's screw and one of its torpedoes serve as a monument to the boat at the entrance to the park.
Imagine the stress and chaos that ensued after the errant torpedo came back around and sunk their boat, in a matter of seconds. The initial attitude of the boat was at approximately 60 degrees bow up, with the bow actually clearing the surface. Now, consider this; the remaining crew onboard knew the water depth and had the presence of mind to actually trim the boat by flooding ballast tanks forward to bring the boat to level attitude, resting on the ocean floor. They then deployed the buoy/rope to the surface and organized the possible egress through the escape trunk. BTW All modern subs still use this basic design for the escape trunk. Next, they actually were able to get over a dozen crewmen out of the forward torpedo room via the escape trunk, in small groups, until the remaining crew was probably overcome by noxious fumes from the battery fire. The cool headed bravery, dedication and professionalism of these sub crews is astounding and awe inspiring. Adm. Dick O'Kane's book, 'Clear the Bridge!' is his account of his WW2 service and chronicles his cruises on the 'Wahoo' and 'Tang'. It is must reading for anyone interested in military history.
I'm currently reading through "Clear the Bridge!" for the third time. Excellent read in all respects. If Edward Beach's "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Dust on the Sea" epitomize WWII submarine action, Dick O'Kane underpins them with the cold reality that Beach compiled into his own fictional tale. This clip was an effective summary of the Tang's war patrols, but the essence is in the details, which you have to read the book for.
Brother was on the TangII one of the US's last diesel boat in the US Navy. While he was stationed in San Diego bought a copy of Dick "Killer" O'Kane's book on the tang. "Clear the Bridge" autographed to me. Great book by the way. Keep up the Great work Drac
USS Tang: I'm teaching them a lesson about spacing.
Is that a womble reference, I spy?
Honestly man these videos are brilliant. I like how you throw in sarcastic and witty comments like "quadkill" or my favorite, as referring to the flower class. "Rolling uncontrollably through the morning dew"
Keep up the good work man
My Grandfather Charles Brethauer was a submariner on the Tang's sister ship the U.S.S. Bang. He told me many stories (quite scary) about his tour of duty on the high seas though the end of the war. I wish I could relay them all here but it's more than space and time will allow. Thank you for posting this video and keeping the memory of this incredible chapter of history alive. Sadly Charlie is long gone, he died of bone cancer that I am sure was a lasting legacy of his later service in classified (nuclear) programs later in his life. Pouring one in your Honor Charlie, you were a good man.
Not to quibble about your grandfather' death, as I don't know the circumstances. he served long, honorably, and I would call his passing to be "In the line of Duty." However, Rickover was a real stickler (Some said real bastard) about safety on his nuclear boats and demanded that reactor shielding and materials handling procedures meet or exceed those set for civilian use. Regarding downgrading protections for the crews, he is supposed to have said something like this to his Safety Team: "If one of my young sailor's wives gives birth to a two-headed baby, you don't have to explain it, *I do* !
She was such a badass that literally the only ship that could sink her... was herself.
What a fascinating story, I wouldn’t mind getting an extended version with more detail on her exploits. *hint hint* 😉
Could you do a guide to the USS Silversides SS-236? She's in my hometown, a long way from the ocean btw, but she's in great shape and she's one of the top scoring WWII US subs preserved.
I'm late to this video but there are three points I'd like to offer.
1) A well regarded WWII submariner stated on the record that, regarding torpedo performance, there were people at BUORD who were CULPABLY negligent in carrying out their duties.
2) O'Kane in his book stated that he conducted his own test depth experiments by "stepping down" submergence depth to 712 feet. The thick hulled boats were built to a test depth of 600 feet but were limited to 400 feet due to noisy and ineffective trim/bilge pumps and shaft seals.
3) Sadly later in life Admiral O'Kane suffered from Alzheimer's disease. His wife would take him for walks along the beach. He would look out over the ocean and mutter "Must get them out - Must get them out"
A further note: O'Kane gave his fiancé a ring for Valentines Day 1936. She lost the ring in the surf at Waikiki a year later. Completely by accident, it was found by a person using a metal detector and returned to her and Adm O'Kane in 1985.
There is so much information on German subs during this era. Thanks for covering some US subs. Would really like to see some stories about English/Polish subs also if you feel up for it! Thanks Drach.
drach videos are so terse and to the point. i can't decide if i like this style or not. But i know i hate people who can't get to the point when they talk.
I have a copy of each of Dick O'Kane's books, one about USS Wahoo ("Wahoo") and the other about USS Tang ("Clear The Bridge").
Great reads, highly recommended if you want to learn about USN submarine operations in WW2 on two of the greatest they had, written by surely one of their greatest officers.
There are SO many details in them it's impossible to convey just how fascinating it is if you're genuinely interested.
Wahoo is really interesting in part because it highlights issues the USN had with its commanding officers who rose during peace times and thus with doctrines and attitudes that didn't at all match what it turned out was necessary for effective use of these weapons. "Mush" Morton, who took command of Wahoo, went on to show what could be done. He also had the highly unusual method of having O'Kane, his exec, do periscope observations on attacks as he felt it left him able to see "the big picture". Also had a different way of using the torpedo data computer (TDC) compared with normal training.
Given Drach mentioned the "loss of depth control" and the depth she went to, O'Kane already KNEW that Tang could go safely to about 650ft. He knew this because ONE of the things he did during trials etc was a very careful series of tests intended to see just where she could reach safely. This included having wooden overlapping slats inside the boat so hull compression could be measured. He had her trimmed with an up angle of about 3 degrees, so she would rise without active dive plane inputs.
He also wanted the main gun positioned aft of the tower, not forward. I seem to recall he concluded "I won the argument, but the gun stayed where it was" when it comes to that.
In fact it's pretty remarkable hearing all the different ways crews could alter things.
As I said, if you want to learn REAL details about how these boats operated, and the remarkable exploits of Tang in particular, you absolutely ought to read them.
I'd call this boat an overachiever, but y'know, she was just trying to live up to legacy the USS Johnston left behind. Can't let the tin cans have all the fun.
Rich McGee
I’d argue she way exceeded that destroyer in that regard.
She sank on the same day as the _Johnston._
Coincidence? I think not...
Drach, your dry humor and your turns of phrase make my day.
I work with William Leibold in the 1976 great guy one of the lucky ones that made it out!! Thank You great Video
I would love to see you do an episode on the USS Wahoo if you haven't. Great work, as always.
@Drachinifel Your humor is absolutely spot on, I take off my hat to you.
Excellent presentation. Liberated from the clutches of flotation...
Oddly enough, I always liked your text to voice video's. It was a hoot listening to the pronunciations. As always, very informative. THanks.
I live a few minutes away from the old Mare Island dockyard. Some of the old dry-docks are still up but it's mostly abandoned factories and old bunker complexes. My great grandfather and my grandfather used to work on submarines over there decades ago.
That photo of the rescued airmen @4:00 really shows you just how young those guys were. Most look to be in their late teens or early 20s. It's always bugged me that Hollywood shows the servicemen of WW2 to mostly be in their mid 30s; it just deemphasizes how young those men were.
Love these submarine videos! It's about time you fleshed out that playlist
Give the USS Albacore some love. That sub's one of the better known US submarines in Asia, but is relatively unknown in it's own country compared to Tang and Wahoo.
I just love it how japanese were able to construct such advanced submarines as infamous in it's lack of action I-400, BUT at the same time completly ignore 1)all the potential of actually using them; 2)realising said potential in hands of the enemy and taking steps in defending themselves.
TheArklyte
The worst oversight of the IJN by a large margin.
@@bkjeong4302 55% if I recall right;)
The United States military has always understood the importance of denying their opposition supplies. Examples such as The Anaconda and Sherman’s March on Georgia come to mind. The Japanese Navy seem to have been obsessed with big fleet battles. The IJN was waiting to use its units in battles that never happened.
Francesco Nicoletti
The Japanese were focused on grinding away at the main American fleet then defeating the remainder quickly, and trying to come to a negotiated peace. They didn’t bother with enemy logistics much, mostly because they knew that was a game they were going to lose immediately: trying to cut off supplies to the USN was going to be literally impossible.
Their own logistics, however, were genuinely a case of major incompetence somewhere.
As for them saving their battleships for battles that never happened, that only applies to the first few months: later on they didn’t use their battleships because they *couldn’t* use them cost-effectively (for the simple reason that battleships were conceptually obsolete in WWII). The USN used their battleships for supporting roles that battleships were never designed for or cost-effective at, and got away with this because they could afford to waste tens of billions of dollars: had the USN not bothered with building and deploying new battleships in WWII, they would have had an even more crushing advantage over Japan.
The I-400's were put to sea at the end of the war and had interiors made from wood and bunks made of straw. They were rat infested. I was at a submarine convention in the late 90's and talked with a man who brought the I-400 to Hawaii after the surrender. He told me al about it and how miserable it was aboard.
I love this ship... they should make a movie about her. XO under Mush Morton... I like how Mush used his XO to look through the periscope when attacking as to stay emotionally detached. O'Kane did the same thing.... They are legends man
4:05 - simply the best US Navy uniform ever. I'm still confused to why they went away from it and haven't revisited tan.
"...the Tang and her crew had less than two years of World War II left to run, so they'd have to get 'stuck in' if they wanted to make an impression." 0:59 Now, now Drac, this is a family show.
Ahhh yes the Tang....a wonderfully flavored powdered drink.
Oh wait sorry...this is about the fantastic submarine who tried to sink the entire Japanese Navy.
As well as create many many new artificial reefs.
Tang and O’Kane. Legends of submarine warfare.
"... from the shackles of positive buoyancy"
You're killing me, Uncle Drach! 😅🤣🙃😂
Thank you for doing the submarines, more please!!
I'm attracted to these videos by the excellent intro.
8:22 Link to torpedo damage drawing. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Tang_(SS-306)#/media/File%3AUSS_Tang_wdr58062.jpg
Incredible.
Quadrakill! Well played, Drach, well played.
..the intro is awesome... makes you want to join in the Navy
O'Kane's book about his time on the Tang is a wonderful read
Have you considered doing a episode of USS Silversides? Third in tonnage sunk, an appendectomy performed on board and perhaps the only American submarine who attacked dragging a Japanese fishing float waving merrily
Well done.
Still eagerly waiting for the Type VII U-boat. U-96 maybe? U-47? U-552? The Type IX would also be awesome, U-505 maybe?
Brilliant as usual. Keep up the good work mate. Please!
Find 'em, Chase 'em, Sink'em......😐 Mad respect to the USS Tang and 51 sisters still on Eternal Patrol.
Hey Drac! Sub stories remind me of the subs built by the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company in Wisconsin during WWII. I would think they had to hold a record for the naval combat vessels built farthest from salt water. They traveled about 1100 miles to get to the Gulf of Mexico. I understand that was how they got to the sea though I don't know why they could not have traveled the Great Lakes to the Saint Lawrence .
The St Lawrence Seaway wasn't built until the '50s.
Some smaller vessels used the Erie/ Barge Canal from Buffalo to the Hudson River.
Had to drop in on this video again, since I just finished reading The War Below, the concluding chapters of which covered the sinking of Tang and the survivors' time in Japanese POW camps as "special prisoners." It's quite a harrowing tale to read in detail.
Legendary. Sad that most of her crew didn’t make it home...
Very cool. I cannot imagine the horror of being on a submarine at war. Even if it is the most successful one of the bunch
Good morning Drach!🌅
If i didnt love ships, i would view your videos just for the humor.
I'd like to see a video about the IJN's development of their very successful ASW program. How did they get such good equipment, trained crews, scientific expertise and manufacturing capabilities? This was another one of your excellent presentations. Thank you.
1.2k likes and 0 dislikes. Dammit, Drach! You're gonna break the TH-cam!
I read Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the U.S.S. Tang by her captain, Richard O Kane when I was in school. I remember it as a good read - would be good to have a second look and see if it holds up
Awesome video of an awesome sub.
Drach.
You need to have a tee shirt made with the caption
Submarines
Freeing surface ships from the shackles of positive Buoyancy
How about a piece on Dutch submariners?
You should do a vid on the Becuna
Finally, U.S. seamen that deserve all respect they could ever be given.
thank you
i remember reading 'Clear the Bridge' as a child by Rick O'Kane.
a ship on the bottom every 11 days, 22 rescued Naval Aviators off Truk, 2 PUCs and the only survivors from a sunken submarine. pretty special crew.
Plus one POW.
As Chief of the Watch, operating the Ballast Control Panel I had the privilege of "relieving (my boat) from the shackles of positive buoyancy" several times per watch................................
Says you posted this an hour ago and already had 4k plus views.
Nice!
I can't imagine her final mission without her captain cackling at all the explosions.