Ladies and gentlemen, the case is closed... the M2 Pro Mac mini can officially handle "loads and loads and loads of DX7's". And on that note, it's time I go and pick one up now for myself. Thanks as always, Mark!
My issue with adding so many tracks is that you’re not really working the vst. There’s no midi, so it’s not playing/working. The amount of tracks should be less. I did the test with MBP and got up to 150 tracks. Try copying the midi along with the instruments.
That's funny because the TX-802 and the DX7IIE were eight DX7s in one unit, like 30 years ago, and so was the Mac SE-30. Not much of a test if that's the test.
As a signed music producer and professional mastering engineer this video was fantastic. I only stumbled across your channel since I started looking to upgrade my studio computer and your content has been great but this video was exactly what I needed. I'd love to know how much swap memory was being used while stress testing. Thanks Mark, please keep going with this type of content.
hiya - cool video. would have been nice to see the buffer size. also, when you add only instruments without midi data that doesnt add any cpu usage. keep up the good work!
It's more than enough for most people. I bought the 2021 14" 10 core,16gb, 1tb model as I just wanted to be "safe" and make sure it met my music production needs. I now realise it was actually an "overkill" purchase in terms of music production ( for me anyway). What some have been able to squeeze out of the M1 and M2 (non pro models) is pretty amazing. How times have changed!
Same😂 I’m thinking that this is also an investment for the future. Will I also edit video or get balls deep into Blender? Or both simultaneously? Only time will tell.
When the M1 came out Present Day Production ran an even harder stress test than this and couldn't make it fall over. They used the basic 8GB and so I bought one. I bought the 2TB and 16GB version, it never breaks a sweat and never falls over. For years I swore I'd never have a Mac, I built my own PC's, this changed my mind. I'm running Reaper (I was a Cubase man since the Atari days but they took two years to release a silicone version). Mac's had the reputation as 'best computers for music' for two decades and it was never true, it is now.
IMPORTANT: I am fully aware of the issue with two or three plosives (mic pops) in this video. There are many things to think about when making these videos and that slipped through. Lesson learned, but I don’t need reminding about it every third comment 😉 Enjoy the content!
it's nice that you mentioned it cause there's people like me that have DPC Latency issues that causes audio drop outs and glad i've seen your comment before starting looking out for what happened at my pc again 😊
Thanks for this video, you’re the only person that’s tested this machine in the way that I wanted to see. I just ordered one of these m2 pro’s with the upgraded CPU, 32gb RAM + 2tb ssd. You are using similar software to me and I guess I may have over spec’d it. Oh well! Future proofed and all that jazz 🙃🌟
Great video. Not enough people are trying out this kind of thing on videos. My M1 Air does a pretty good job of handling my messing about in Cubase, but I’m thinking about taking things up a notch. The Mini Pro might well be what I go for. Cheers
The M2 Pro is no doubt very impressive in this capacity, I noticed that you didn't duplicate the midi data along with those duplicate tracks? it's one thing to count how many virtual instruments and effects you can load into memory and another thing to actually trigger those virtual instruments all together at the same time, that's when the CPU really get stressed!
Exactly! I’m not sure what the actual test is here. It certainly has no use case in the real world. Sure, it’s still taxing on the machine but this is not how one would produce a track. 😂 Should’ve copied the tracks including midi/audio data and see how for it got then.
Came here to say this , the true test is duplicating instruments running multiple voices, both in a pure Au and also a rompler style Au like omnishpere , this way your testing both the processor and also the ram. If it handles that well, chuck on a convulsion reverb like space designer and see what it can really handle !
Great video! While I REALLY wanted to like the M2 Pro Mini but, I ended up returning it and getting the M1Max Studio instead. There just wasn't enough difference in performance and the heat and fan noise working close to the computer with high track/Plugin counts was way to loud in a working recording studio.
M2Pro was loud ? I hope you don't get one of the "whining" Mac Studio. It sure runs lower, and should use less fan, but the whining high pitch recuring problem is something Apple screwed up big time. I too worried about that to consider the Studio unfortunatly.
@@Journeymanlive The Studio is literally silent. As I understand it, the whining fan thing were the early releases only. Several of our partner mix rooms (20+) have them as well and none have reported that problem in the last year.
@@Featherlightstudio thanks i never heard about a timeline like this. I'd buy second hand anyway, any idea of the point in time where they adressed it ? They might have just done something to the OS, i dont see them changing the whole design. Although I have read many comments of people having the whining appear later in the life of the machine, pretty scary to me as I do want a completly silent computer ! cheers
@@Featherlightstudio here's from another guy at GearSpace: I have a mini pro 12c and had a studio this summer. I find it hard to believe that the mini could be louder than a mac studio. On the studio the fan runs 24/7 even under no load. It is audible if you are in a quiet room and close to the studio. Still much quieter than intel macs, however, and probably not loud enough to be a problem 99% of the time - unless you have the dreaded whine, which mine did. The mini is dead silent even under stress testing. Admittedly, I haven't done gpu stress testing, because it is irrelevant to me, so maybe going full throttle cpu and gpu at the same time kicks the fan on. Working in logic and pro tools I have never heard the fan even with my ear a couple inches away trying to hear it. If it is on, it is at a low rpm and close to inaudible.
@@Journeymanlive I guess if you never use the GPU it probably is quiet, but what's the point on spending all that money and never doing any video related tasks.
Excellent job Mark. I'm in the market for a couple of M2 mini's and being a heavy NI/Massive X user really wanted to see someone push it with multiple channels with said synth and.. you did exactly that! Outstanding.
Exactly what I needed to find out before my 14 day return period is up on my m2 pro mac mini. I was thinking of returning it and ordering one with 32gb ram. But from videos I’ve seen this base unit seems to be optimized saving more ram that an m1 wouldn’t. thanks!!!
Thank you for doing a REALWORLD stress test (lots of different plugins and VI's)! Everyone else just takes one VI track and they multiply it like 100x. Music tracks obviously are not 100 tracks of the exact same thing.
Hey again this kind of testing is just fantastic it’s absolutely helpful, although I’m yet to get into music production. The methodology is extremely helpful, in that testing an absolutely huge number of music tracks etc literally shows what the ultimate capability of this base pro version is. Now taking this video idea to the next stage, video editing. What I’d find unbelievably helpful and valuable and I hedge a guess that thousands of others will also find helpful. Is doing this but with video editing on davinci resolve and Final Cut,just with video timelines. To be specific having a a bunch of very long 4K, 10 422 long gop and or ALLI H.265 that total an hour or hour and a half, add a bunch titles, multi cams, colour grades and cut points and see if you can bring the base m2 pro Mac mini to a grinding stop, see if you can scrub through the timeline in real time etc etc. I respect max tech etc but they all do timelines of like 1minute and go oh export of 50secs but that’s not helpful if your say thinking of making documentaries like I am with timelines of an hour plus!.sorry waffling comment I take ages to get to the point.
Good stuff. I'm about ready to upgrade my old Intel-based iMac... and thought I'd need to drop a ton of cash on a new Mac Studio (for rock/metal music) and am happy to see that I absolutely do NOT. I do run a few Spitfire, 8DIO, and Native Instruments plugins on any given project, but it doesn't seem like that'll be a problem for a Mac Mini.
Cool video. You've added loads of midi tracks but they are empty tracks. So just having the tracks there does put load on the system but there is way more load when they are trying to play something back simultaneously. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive, but I'd like to have seen how it coped with actual playback material on those tracks and playing back simultaneiously. That's the real test.
I ran a similar test on my base MacBook Air M1 running Logic and had a hard time killing it. Believe the hype. For music production any silicon Mac will do
really interesting test and video. i'm going to upgrade my home studio computer, and is it a good idea to buy M2 pro 16gb ( is it really enough? ) instead of 32 gb of RAM M2 pro ,... or waiting for the new Imac with M3 chips ?
Thanks for the great review, Mark - I've been on the fence between this and the Mac Studio for music production. Although every other reviewer is saying the latter is better value if you upgrade the mini from the base model at all, instinctively I feel like the higher single core clock speed of the M2 pro might be more important for music production (and to be fair, most TH-camrs tend to focus on video editing, where the Studio probably does have the edge). On that note: do you ever use large orchestral templates where memory might be an issue, and if so can you offer any insight? While I'd feel a little nervous with anything less than 32gb, I've heard the memory swapping is pretty good so maybe I don't need to be and I can get away without paying through the nose to up the stock 16gb?
The main test after populating with multiple tracks would be to record notes from your midi keyboard or record an external instrument into an audio channel and check its latency to see if it still records on beat. My Mac Pro 14 m1 pro can handle allot of plugins + a few external elecktron boxes in overbridge mode pushing 16+ audio record streams at the same time on beat. only one plugin ruins the whole experience and that's the isotope ozone 10 plugin suite which adds latency timing issues when recording new tracks.
It is a good video, the only thing which is still worries me with the basic Mini M2 Pro is the 16Gb RAM. I would like to know if this would be enough with Orchestral tools like Spitfire plugins and mastering tool like Ozone from Izotope (it uses lot's of RAM) or Reverb like Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Pro. With my current Mac mini 2018 i7 (6 cores) and 32GB it struggles to handle it even with not so many tracks, buffer 128 or 256 and 88.2Khz sample rate
Excellent video and even better the second part. Im going with this compiter as my 2018 mini i7/32gbram is struggling. However budget is tight to go with the 512 ssd and will go with the 256. You think is bad choice since the internet says its slower than 512. Working mostly with audio..
Great video and thank you!!! Everyone is focusing on video creation that we music guys are left out. But In your opinion would you recommend 32GB RAM over 16GB when the Mac Mini memory swap on the SSD HD?
I'm currently using a fully maxed out 2012 27 imac with 500gb SSD and 32gb ram and it's getting a bit old. Would a mac mini m2 pro and my choice of display be a worthy upgrade? I'm not into any graphics intensive video editing but have a home based project studio running Logic, Protools and a stack load of third party plug ins. Is the 512gb SSD and 16gb RAM of the Mac Mini m2 Pro enough for a machine to be used solely for music production that's future proofed for at least a few years? Your advice is much appreciated and keep up the great work.
Came across your channel and your review is exactly the content I was looking for about music production👌, a big additional question is Im also seeking a new curved monitor as im moving away from my 27" iMac, what are using and could you suggest any models. ?
How about playing with sustain all 88 keys from some heavy duty VST synth, with unison maxed out. Then replicate that track as many times as you can . At what point do clicks and stutters start appearing? (Personally I'm interested to see how far you can push Spire (synth) on that machine).
A fellow Massive X user ! I don't use any of the stock or expansion presets .Just like to do do my own . What type of audio interface if any do you use with it ?
May I ask, who makes that monitor, and, do you have one of those multi- TB drives underneath the M2? I just ordered one and I’m waiting for it ( 2TB )! Trying to decide what’s the best monitor for the $. Cheers
Hi Mark. This is brilliant. How powerful is this machine. I’m a photographer not a musician so the apps I use will manage memory differently to Logic. However I have come away from this with confidence that the base M2 Pro will monster editing any high resolution images with pixel enhancement etc.etc. I have some images that are over half a Gb. That is, this is a great practical test and shows the things that specs sheets can’t.
This is the kinda of review I have been waiting for. But should have pushed this guy a little more. Like I want to know what was the Memory usage with all the VSTs and Plugs that were here. Also what was the Bounce time with all of these on without doing a bounce in place and committing the VSTs to an audio file. That would be hugely helpful mate. P.S.- Forgot to ask. Did you close this Logic session and tried opening it again with everything maxed out. How much time did it take to boot up ???
Hi Mark, Thanks for the video. Can I ask your opinion? I have a 2023 Mac mini pro and am experiencing considerable audio bleed. I noticed it when I went to create backing tracks in Logic Pro x, with click and voice-over panned hard left I was hearing it in the right channel. I then tested a system Audio alert, Apple Music, Safari>TH-cam, all with the system audio panned hard L or R, and heard quite a bit of bleed in the opposite channel, via shure e300 in ear headphones and also Sennheiser over ear studio cans, both plugged directly into the audio out on the Mac mini. I've consulted apple and they are denying that the bleed exists. Meanwhile on forums people are saying that this is a known problem and the internal sound cards are subpar. Have you experienced this and do you know of a software or hardware fix for the Mac mini pro? Many thanks.
i am more interested in the latency, with the lowest buffer of 32 samples. I want to be able to play synth plugins with birtually no delay. how low can it go ?
Your videos almost have me convinced to sell my M1 Mac mini and go up to the M2 pro, to make my coding ‘go faster’ - by the end of this video I’ll probably be convinced!
Don’t you need to add Mitty to the tracks to show the stress on the computer? Duplicating blank tracks for the plug-in it’s not drying any power from those plug-ins. They might loading to ram, but there’s nothing being pulled from the CPU against them. I could be wrong, and somebody may have already said something, but great video
Yes, Mark. Same here. Great job and very helpful but having a lot of instrument tracks is only useful when we see what happens when they’re trying to play MIDI. Play some big chords on, say, Omnisphere or Massive X and duplicate that until it breaks. That would give a better real world example. Thanks!
So if the Mini is capable of handling so many tracks I'm really looking forward now to the MacStudio M2 Max I ordered a few days ago. I'm upgrading from a Mac Mini late 2012 i7. The only downside of this is that I might have to get rid of my old Interface now (Firewire only) and get new ones. 😕
i think i have bought the same USB Dock for my brother and noticed that for some reason even if its not used but still connected that it gets pretty hot. does yours get hot too?
One Question - did u add a midi file to all those tracks u added? Because if not, this doesn’t really count as a cpu stresstest… the loaded plugins have to process something to be active…. Otherwise like the video ^^
I pretty regularly put my mid tier M1 iMac through an orchestra’s worth of instruments from East West plus many plugins and it doesn’t break a sweat, so I’m not surprised at all by these findings! You’re right of course, that test is completely unrealistic, but I think worth it to find the ceiling (is there even a real ceiling, in effect?).
@@MarkEllisReviews oh absolutely I just mean that 99+% of users will not find it, which is beyond incredible for a machine of that price. Thanks for making this video and putting that on full display! Keep up the great work.
Logic isnt the best optimised actually I run bitwig and it's noticably snappier under heavy load and that's with a smaller buffer size I've heard reaper is similar so that's something others have noticed.
Excellent Real World test! I have been waiting for something like this. Wonderful demonstration of ITB performance. I would think that OTB audio tracking - multichannel, along with ITB would work well too? Especially with Presonus Studio One Pro, version 5?
Wow, this is very good to see, I just purchased m2 MacBook Pro with 32gb memory and 1tb hd mostly for music production. To be fair it's the 10 core not 12 core, but don't think it will matter At All after seeing this.
@@thatampguy best computer i ever used. I highly recommend. battery life is excellent, never gets hot, it's a perfect laptop for things like music making
This has thrown a spanner in the works i was convinced i was going to go for a Studio now im now so sure lol DDo you run any extra usb hubs from the back of tha Machine, issue i have is i dont think there are enough ports on the mini
Dude my 2013 iMac with 4 core intel i7 with slow 16gb memory could easily run 20 tracks of huge orchestral libraries, this m2 will be based on geek bench at least 5x more capable. Like guys stop thinking you need a super computer, you don't. When I put my plug-ins on a fast external ssd it gave me like 50% better performance. The m2 comes with stupid fast memory bandwidth, and if you upgrade to 1tb and above the read and write speeds on ssd will be fast too for swap memory. If you literally could manage to still cripple the machine, just increase buffer size, and then in preferences set it to use all the cores and close out any background application. You can also use the freeze track option which frees up cpu, or bounce in place.
I'd love to see a similar stress test but in a mastering scenario. Mastering plugins can be extremely CPU intensive - multiple Fabfilter L3 at 32x oversampling, soothe2, Ozone 10, Acustica Audio plugins etc etc. Thanks very much.
I'd be really interested to see how it handles loads of plugins on stacks and busses while mastering on the fly with a long chain of very CPU-heavy plugins with 8x/16x/32x oversampling going on! I have a feeling that your Logic session might have fallen over if all of the instruments were actually outputting audio too. Would love to see these kinds of tests with Logic's CPU meter visible! Thanks for making this video, I'd love to see more of these as I'm currently torn between the M2 Pro Mac mini and Mac Studio for music production, cheers!
Now do the same with large orchestral libraries (Sonuscore, Orchestral Tools, VSL and the likes). To see how well not just the CPU but especially the 16GB RAM cope.
Use virtual string instruments and a 140 piece orchestra playing different instruments that will be a test for it as a media composer that would be invaluable cheers great channel 👍
excellent video! (many ‘plosive boofs from your mic placement-recommend mic’ing from above ) I use my M1 2020 for music production also and it’s been going great but am considering leaping to the M2 Pro👍 Also as a sound post production bod of some 40 years i also use it for mixing tv shows too with Pro Tools Ultimate and a plethora of plugins and VI’s
Thanks for the kind words! As for the plosives - that was indeed a mic placement error on my part, very annoying (although miking from above with an SM7b won’t quite work 😉).
@@MarkEllisReviews Absolutely! i would suggest aiming it slightly to your left (to cam) and ideally another 10cm away from you with more gain to suit but you will lose that nice bassy proximity effect …:) i have watched a few youtubes on how to convert a shure sm57 into an sm7b 😮🙈 smaller footprint and it seems to work well Thanks again for the video- i am now happy to jump from M1 to M2 Pro👍
So, right now… I’m thinking about waiting for the M3 Mac mini. I have seen some testing on the M3 versus the M3 pro compared to other models in the MacBook. I was thinking about getting an M2 Mac Mini w 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB hard drive. But … I think I’ll wait for the M3 Mac mini to come out and see what the story is. What do you think? Please advise? (Advice is welcome from anyone on here.)
Hi, great video, thanks. I am using Kontakt with an Win 11 i5 13400 processor and 16gb of ram. When run a song in Pre Sonus Studio one with like 20 midi tracks and 12 Kontakt instruments, the Track stutters. I am planing to upgrade to i7 13700 or a Macmini m2 regular (with Logic pro). What do you think will be the best? Thanks
Thank you Mark for the excellent video. Very useful and brilliant presentation. I was in the process of putting together a high end PC spec but this made me think about going down the Apple route. I think the Mac Mini is very good value for money given it starts at £649 and has Thunderbolt ports. That's an ideal solution if you want to have a separate monitor and that there are ways of using external hard drives instead of paying for the Mac Mini internal storage upgrades. My uncertainty is around the amount of RAM available. On the base model the max is 24GB and on the Pro it's 32GB. For large scale sample based projects, is this enough do you think?
@@vincentolufemi8644 Hi Vincent. Thank you for the reply. I don't have an answer to this yet. I'm still in the process of planning my next music system.
I just bought this Mac today. Loaded 50 alchemy tracks with MIDi info and got the system overload. It will crash if you copy the MIDI information to the instrument tracks
Hey mark, amazing video.. Would it be possible to do some stressing videos using some instances of uvi falcon and halion 7 and some Acustica Audio fxs like JAM? Thanks in advance
It looks like he has the shure sm7b microphone, which doesn’t really need a pop filter(the mic itself is targeted towards podcasting/speaking without needing a pop filter).
@@jayg339 Sadly there's a lot of popping occurring anyway. Partly it's down to where the mic is aimed - 'p's shoot directly out the front of the mouth so placing it a bit lower often is enough.
Oh!!!! One more super important thing… I am only interested in music production. I’m trying to put this particular machine together solely for music production.
@@nickszabodrums Get the base model M1 max with 64GB RAM, the base model CPU and GPU because music software mainly relies on single core CPU performance and having extra overhead memory is always a plus for the long term. That system should sort you out for the next few years.
So does 'm2 mac mini base version' = Apple M2 Pro with 10‑core CPU, 16-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine? I ask because there are two options currently on the apple site. Thanks!
See part two of this test here ➡ th-cam.com/video/ChGC9Sq1FEo/w-d-xo.html
Ladies and gentlemen, the case is closed... the M2 Pro Mac mini can officially handle "loads and loads and loads of DX7's". And on that note, it's time I go and pick one up now for myself. Thanks as always, Mark!
It’s the only thing _everyone_ wanted to know.
My issue with adding so many tracks is that you’re not really working the vst. There’s no midi, so it’s not playing/working. The amount of tracks should be less. I did the test with MBP and got up to 150 tracks. Try copying the midi along with the instruments.
That's funny because the TX-802 and the DX7IIE were eight DX7s in one unit, like 30 years ago, and so was the Mac SE-30. Not much of a test if that's the test.
Dx7 are extremely efficient my 2009 4 core Mac can handle hundreds of them.
@@MarkEllisReviewswhat about the actual base 8 gig ram and 10 core gpu with 250 gb? Should it be enough?
As a signed music producer and professional mastering engineer this video was fantastic. I only stumbled across your channel since I started looking to upgrade my studio computer and your content has been great but this video was exactly what I needed. I'd love to know how much swap memory was being used while stress testing. Thanks Mark, please keep going with this type of content.
That’s lovely feedback - thank you!
Memory Pressure is the one to look at interestingly enough rather than the other memory related readouts
yes i'm also curious about the memory pressure when you were maxing out
yeah , if you could tell us how much swap it used with the 16GB of RAM , that would be Awesome ❤️🔥❤️💪🏻😃
@@codenamegrs9278 I'd also be interested to know this and whether it's worth the extra money to upgrade to the 1TB SSD?
hiya - cool video. would have been nice to see the buffer size. also, when you add only instruments without midi data that doesnt add any cpu usage. keep up the good work!
It's more than enough for most people. I bought the 2021 14" 10 core,16gb, 1tb model as I just wanted to be "safe" and make sure it met my music production needs. I now realise it was actually an "overkill" purchase in terms of music production ( for me anyway). What some have been able to squeeze out of the M1 and M2 (non pro models) is pretty amazing.
How times have changed!
Same😂 I’m thinking that this is also an investment for the future. Will I also edit video or get balls deep into Blender? Or both simultaneously? Only time will tell.
When the M1 came out Present Day Production ran an even harder stress test than this and couldn't make it fall over. They used the basic 8GB and so I bought one. I bought the 2TB and 16GB version, it never breaks a sweat and never falls over. For years I swore I'd never have a Mac, I built my own PC's, this changed my mind. I'm running Reaper (I was a Cubase man since the Atari days but they took two years to release a silicone version). Mac's had the reputation as 'best computers for music' for two decades and it was never true, it is now.
To borrow one of your phrases, “I have no idea what any of that means” but I appreciate what is a real world example of stressing the M2. Good video!
Haha - thank you!
IMPORTANT: I am fully aware of the issue with two or three plosives (mic pops) in this video. There are many things to think about when making these videos and that slipped through. Lesson learned, but I don’t need reminding about it every third comment 😉 Enjoy the content!
it's nice that you mentioned it cause there's people like me that have DPC Latency issues that causes audio drop outs and glad i've seen your comment before starting looking out for what happened at my pc again 😊
all those pops- should've saved this for fathers' day. 😂
Thanks for this video, you’re the only person that’s tested this machine in the way that I wanted to see. I just ordered one of these m2 pro’s with the upgraded CPU, 32gb RAM + 2tb ssd. You are using similar software to me and I guess I may have over spec’d it. Oh well! Future proofed and all that jazz 🙃🌟
Great to hear!
Great video.
Not enough people are trying out this kind of thing on videos.
My M1 Air does a pretty good job of handling my messing about in Cubase, but I’m thinking about taking things up a notch. The Mini Pro might well be what I go for.
Cheers
The M2 Pro is no doubt very impressive in this capacity, I noticed that you didn't duplicate the midi data along with those duplicate tracks? it's one thing to count how many virtual instruments and effects you can load into memory and another thing to actually trigger those virtual instruments all together at the same time, that's when the CPU really get stressed!
Yeah, thought the same …
Exactly! I’m not sure what the actual test is here. It certainly has no use case in the real world. Sure, it’s still taxing on the machine but this is not how one would produce a track. 😂
Should’ve copied the tracks including midi/audio data and see how for it got then.
Came here to say this , the true test is duplicating instruments running multiple voices, both in a pure Au and also a rompler style Au like omnishpere , this way your testing both the processor and also the ram. If it handles that well, chuck on a convulsion reverb like space designer and see what it can really handle !
Then duplicate ad infinitum till it actually breaks
...which is something I made abundantly clear in the video ;)
Great video! While I REALLY wanted to like the M2 Pro Mini but, I ended up returning it and getting the M1Max Studio instead. There just wasn't enough difference in performance and the heat and fan noise working close to the computer with high track/Plugin counts was way to loud in a working recording studio.
M2Pro was loud ? I hope you don't get one of the "whining" Mac Studio. It sure runs lower, and should use less fan, but the whining high pitch recuring problem is something Apple screwed up big time. I too worried about that to consider the Studio unfortunatly.
@@Journeymanlive The Studio is literally silent. As I understand it, the whining fan thing were the early releases only. Several of our partner mix rooms (20+) have them as well and none have reported that problem in the last year.
@@Featherlightstudio thanks i never heard about a timeline like this. I'd buy second hand anyway, any idea of the point in time where they adressed it ? They might have just done something to the OS, i dont see them changing the whole design. Although I have read many comments of people having the whining appear later in the life of the machine, pretty scary to me as I do want a completly silent computer ! cheers
@@Featherlightstudio here's from another guy at GearSpace: I have a mini pro 12c and had a studio this summer. I find it hard to believe that the mini could be louder than a mac studio. On the studio the fan runs 24/7 even under no load. It is audible if you are in a quiet room and close to the studio. Still much quieter than intel macs, however, and probably not loud enough to be a problem 99% of the time - unless you have the dreaded whine, which mine did. The mini is dead silent even under stress testing. Admittedly, I haven't done gpu stress testing, because it is irrelevant to me, so maybe going full throttle cpu and gpu at the same time kicks the fan on. Working in logic and pro tools I have never heard the fan even with my ear a couple inches away trying to hear it. If it is on, it is at a low rpm and close to inaudible.
@@Journeymanlive I guess if you never use the GPU it probably is quiet, but what's the point on spending all that money and never doing any video related tasks.
Excellent job Mark. I'm in the market for a couple of M2 mini's and being a heavy NI/Massive X user really wanted to see someone push it with multiple channels with said synth and.. you did exactly that! Outstanding.
Awesome! Glad it was helpful - that’s why I do this stuff 😎
Exactly what I needed to find out before my 14 day return period is up on my m2 pro mac mini. I was thinking of returning it and ordering one with 32gb ram. But from videos I’ve seen this base unit seems to be optimized saving more ram that an m1 wouldn’t. thanks!!!
Thank you for doing a REALWORLD stress test (lots of different plugins and VI's)! Everyone else just takes one VI track and they multiply it like 100x. Music tracks obviously are not 100 tracks of the exact same thing.
I've just got the M2 Pro Top Spec Mac Mini with 32GB of RAM...wait til you see some of the Dolby Atmos Mixing session I'll be running on that!
Hey again this kind of testing is just fantastic it’s absolutely helpful, although I’m yet to get into music production. The methodology is extremely helpful, in that testing an absolutely huge number of music tracks etc literally shows what the ultimate capability of this base pro version is.
Now taking this video idea to the next stage, video editing. What I’d find unbelievably helpful and valuable and I hedge a guess that thousands of others will also find helpful. Is doing this but with video editing on davinci resolve and Final Cut,just with video timelines. To be specific having a a bunch of very long 4K, 10 422 long gop and or ALLI H.265 that total an hour or hour and a half, add a bunch titles, multi cams, colour grades and cut points and see if you can bring the base m2 pro Mac mini to a grinding stop, see if you can scrub through the timeline in real time etc etc.
I respect max tech etc but they all do timelines of like 1minute and go oh export of 50secs but that’s not helpful if your say thinking of making documentaries like I am with timelines of an hour plus!.sorry waffling comment I take ages to get to the point.
BRILLIANT ♥♥♥♥ Thank you, Mark! Just for my Mac M2 Pro last night and I am very excited by your results! ♥
good video. would have loved to see stats though (cpu, memory, swap memory)
plus… what was your buffer size during the test?
Good stuff. I'm about ready to upgrade my old Intel-based iMac... and thought I'd need to drop a ton of cash on a new Mac Studio (for rock/metal music) and am happy to see that I absolutely do NOT. I do run a few Spitfire, 8DIO, and Native Instruments plugins on any given project, but it doesn't seem like that'll be a problem for a Mac Mini.
''how do we break it??'' that was so hilarious
Cool video. You've added loads of midi tracks but they are empty tracks. So just having the tracks there does put load on the system but there is way more load when they are trying to play something back simultaneously. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive, but I'd like to have seen how it coped with actual playback material on those tracks and playing back simultaneiously. That's the real test.
Thanks, Paul. Lots more on the way in this series 😉
I ran a similar test on my base MacBook Air M1 running Logic and had a hard time killing it. Believe the hype. For music production any silicon Mac will do
Great to see a useful music-based review. Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
really interesting test and video. i'm going to upgrade my home studio computer, and is it a good idea to buy M2 pro 16gb ( is it really enough? ) instead of 32 gb of RAM M2 pro ,... or waiting for the new Imac with M3 chips ?
Incredible! Could you do this with VSt like Symphonic libraries?
Thanks for the great review, Mark - I've been on the fence between this and the Mac Studio for music production. Although every other reviewer is saying the latter is better value if you upgrade the mini from the base model at all, instinctively I feel like the higher single core clock speed of the M2 pro might be more important for music production (and to be fair, most TH-camrs tend to focus on video editing, where the Studio probably does have the edge). On that note: do you ever use large orchestral templates where memory might be an issue, and if so can you offer any insight? While I'd feel a little nervous with anything less than 32gb, I've heard the memory swapping is pretty good so maybe I don't need to be and I can get away without paying through the nose to up the stock 16gb?
A lot of orchestral plugins won’t even load if you don’t have enough RAM, I would say no mater what get 32 MINIMUM
The main test after populating with multiple tracks would be to record notes from your midi keyboard or record an external instrument into an audio channel and check its latency to see if it still records on beat. My Mac Pro 14 m1 pro can handle allot of plugins + a few external elecktron boxes in overbridge mode pushing 16+ audio record streams at the same time on beat. only one plugin ruins the whole experience and that's the isotope ozone 10 plugin suite which adds latency timing issues when recording new tracks.
Ya im wondering if I will be able to record using Gojira Archetype
It is a good video, the only thing which is still worries me with the basic Mini M2 Pro is the 16Gb RAM. I would like to know if this would be enough with Orchestral tools like Spitfire plugins and mastering tool like Ozone from Izotope (it uses lot's of RAM) or Reverb like Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven Pro. With my current Mac mini 2018 i7 (6 cores) and 32GB it struggles to handle it even with not so many tracks, buffer 128 or 256 and 88.2Khz sample rate
Very Impressed, I am surprised that 16g handled that.
I got the M2 with 32gb I got fed up with of ram messages on the M1.
How about the heat of the box? Is it noisy or is there not even a fan inside it? :D great video man!
Good job men .Question :Do You bought the basic model 8gb 256gb or in need the uprgrade version ( Iam Music Producer & do audio recording ?
You need to use a pop filter or use a low cut, or take the flat setting in sm7b. I hear pops over and over.
Please read the comments section.
Most impressive - would love to see you trying out some orchestral templates
Excellent video and even better the second part. Im going with this compiter as my 2018 mini i7/32gbram is struggling. However budget is tight to go with the 512 ssd and will go with the 256. You think is bad choice since the internet says its slower than 512. Working mostly with audio..
Great video just wanted to no are you running omnisphere Arturia through Rosseta?
Great video and thank you!!! Everyone is focusing on video creation that we music guys are left out. But In your opinion would you recommend 32GB RAM over 16GB when the Mac Mini memory swap on the SSD HD?
I'm currently using a fully maxed out 2012 27 imac with 500gb SSD and 32gb ram and it's getting a bit old. Would a mac mini m2 pro and my choice of display be a worthy upgrade? I'm not into any graphics intensive video editing but have a home based project studio running Logic, Protools and a stack load of third party plug ins. Is the 512gb SSD and 16gb RAM of the Mac Mini m2 Pro enough for a machine to be used solely for music production that's future proofed for at least a few years? Your advice is much appreciated and keep up the great work.
Came across your channel and your review is exactly the content I was looking for about music production👌, a big additional question is Im also seeking a new curved monitor as im moving away from my 27" iMac, what are using and could you suggest any models. ?
Love the music specific based review❤
Awesome - thank you!
How about playing with sustain all 88 keys from some heavy duty VST synth, with unison maxed out. Then replicate that track as many times as you can . At what point do clicks and stutters start appearing?
(Personally I'm interested to see how far you can push Spire (synth) on that machine).
A fellow Massive X user ! I don't use any of the stock or expansion presets .Just like to do do my own . What type of audio interface if any do you use with it ?
May I ask, who makes that monitor, and, do you have one of those multi- TB drives underneath the M2?
I just ordered one and I’m waiting for it ( 2TB )!
Trying to decide what’s the best monitor for the $.
Cheers
Thanks for doing audio testing on a new Mac!
Hi Mark.
This is brilliant. How powerful is this machine.
I’m a photographer not a musician so the apps I use will manage memory differently to Logic.
However I have come away from this with confidence that the base M2 Pro will monster editing any high resolution images with pixel enhancement etc.etc. I have some images that are over half a Gb.
That is, this is a great practical test and shows the things that specs sheets can’t.
Holy cow! I'm about ready not trade out my i9 27in iMac for a M2 Ultra but that might be super overkill haha thanks for doing this
This is the kinda of review I have been waiting for. But should have pushed this guy a little more. Like I want to know what was the Memory usage with all the VSTs and Plugs that were here. Also what was the Bounce time with all of these on without doing a bounce in place and committing the VSTs to an audio file. That would be hugely helpful mate.
P.S.- Forgot to ask. Did you close this Logic session and tried opening it again with everything maxed out. How much time did it take to boot up ???
Thanks for the great video! I wonder if a DAW like Cubase would be any harder on the computer than Logic...?
What a cool and informative video. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this.
What a lovely comment - makes it all worth it. Thank you!
@@MarkEllisReviews Anytime. Keep up the great work.
Hi Mark, Thanks for the video. Can I ask your opinion? I have a 2023 Mac mini pro and am experiencing considerable audio bleed. I noticed it when I went to create backing tracks in Logic Pro x, with click and voice-over panned hard left I was hearing it in the right channel. I then tested a system Audio alert, Apple Music, Safari>TH-cam, all with the system audio panned hard L or R, and heard quite a bit of bleed in the opposite channel, via shure e300 in ear headphones and also Sennheiser over ear studio cans, both plugged directly into the audio out on the Mac mini. I've consulted apple and they are denying that the bleed exists. Meanwhile on forums people are saying that this is a known problem and the internal sound cards are subpar. Have you experienced this and do you know of a software or hardware fix for the Mac mini pro? Many thanks.
Wow, that's pretty freaking impressive.
i am more interested in the latency, with the lowest buffer of 32 samples. I want to be able to play synth plugins with birtually no delay. how low can it go ?
Your videos almost have me convinced to sell my M1 Mac mini and go up to the M2 pro, to make my coding ‘go faster’ - by the end of this video I’ll probably be convinced!
Haha - what was the verdict?
@@MarkEllisReviews you have a winner! And the resale on the M1 mini is pretty good too for the 16gb 512gb model ;)
Love the review mate, really helpful.
Awesome!
Brilliant! Thank you Mark but please use a popfilter/popstopper or a different angle of your Shure SM7b.
Glad you enjoyed it. And trust me, no one is more aware of that slight issue on this one than me 😉
Don’t you need to add Mitty to the tracks to show the stress on the computer? Duplicating blank tracks for the plug-in it’s not drying any power from those plug-ins. They might loading to ram, but there’s nothing being pulled from the CPU against them. I could be wrong, and somebody may have already said something, but great video
There’s lots more I could have done here. It’s a good start, though 😉 Thanks for the kind words!
Yes, Mark. Same here. Great job and very helpful but having a lot of instrument tracks is only useful when we see what happens when they’re trying to play MIDI. Play some big chords on, say, Omnisphere or Massive X and duplicate that until it breaks. That would give a better real world example. Thanks!
So if the Mini is capable of handling so many tracks I'm really looking forward now to the MacStudio M2 Max I ordered a few days ago. I'm upgrading from a Mac Mini late 2012 i7. The only downside of this is that I might have to get rid of my old Interface now (Firewire only) and get new ones. 😕
i think i have bought the same USB Dock for my brother and noticed that for some reason even if its not used but still connected that it gets pretty hot. does yours get hot too?
One Question - did u add a midi file to all those tracks u added? Because if not, this doesn’t really count as a cpu stresstest… the loaded plugins have to process something to be active…. Otherwise like the video ^^
I pretty regularly put my mid tier M1 iMac through an orchestra’s worth of instruments from East West plus many plugins and it doesn’t break a sweat, so I’m not surprised at all by these findings!
You’re right of course, that test is completely unrealistic, but I think worth it to find the ceiling (is there even a real ceiling, in effect?).
There's some very smart memory management going on, I think, although there must be a ceiling somewhere!
@@MarkEllisReviews oh absolutely I just mean that 99+% of users will not find it, which is beyond incredible for a machine of that price. Thanks for making this video and putting that on full display! Keep up the great work.
Logic isnt the best optimised actually I run bitwig and it's noticably snappier under heavy load and that's with a smaller buffer size I've heard reaper is similar so that's something others have noticed.
Excellent Real World test! I have been waiting for something like this. Wonderful demonstration of ITB performance. I would think that OTB audio tracking - multichannel, along with ITB would work well too? Especially with Presonus Studio One Pro, version 5?
Is the Thunderbolt connection necessary for minimal MIDI latency? Are you using the usb-c for midi?
Wow, this is very good to see, I just purchased m2 MacBook Pro with 32gb memory and 1tb hd mostly for music production. To be fair it's the 10 core not 12 core, but don't think it will matter At All after seeing this.
Hey how’s your experience so far?
@@thatampguy best computer i ever used. I highly recommend. battery life is excellent, never gets hot, it's a perfect laptop for things like music making
This has thrown a spanner in the works i was convinced i was going to go for a Studio now im now so sure lol DDo you run any extra usb hubs from the back of tha Machine, issue i have is i dont think there are enough ports on the mini
Would have been interesting to see the pressure on the system with iStat menus or similar. Fun experiment!
That’s a fair shout!
The vidéo, I was waiting for !!!
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
You just convinced me that i don’t need more than the base m2pro🎉
Enjoy!
@@MarkEllisReviews thank you:)
You need to load multiple instances of Kontakt. Then load large libraries into each. That's what I'm wanting to test.
Dude my 2013 iMac with 4 core intel i7 with slow 16gb memory could easily run 20 tracks of huge orchestral libraries, this m2 will be based on geek bench at least 5x more capable. Like guys stop thinking you need a super computer, you don't. When I put my plug-ins on a fast external ssd it gave me like 50% better performance. The m2 comes with stupid fast memory bandwidth, and if you upgrade to 1tb and above the read and write speeds on ssd will be fast too for swap memory.
If you literally could manage to still cripple the machine, just increase buffer size, and then in preferences set it to use all the cores and close out any background application. You can also use the freeze track option which frees up cpu, or bounce in place.
which dock are u using? great video thanks
Thanks! It’s a Satechi.
Good video. Why not show the CPU meter while you do it?
What do you want me to do next with this music production series?
I'd love to see a similar stress test but in a mastering scenario. Mastering plugins can be extremely CPU intensive - multiple Fabfilter L3 at 32x oversampling, soothe2, Ozone 10, Acustica Audio plugins etc etc. Thanks very much.
I'd be really interested to see how it handles loads of plugins on stacks and busses while mastering on the fly with a long chain of very CPU-heavy plugins with 8x/16x/32x oversampling going on! I have a feeling that your Logic session might have fallen over if all of the instruments were actually outputting audio too. Would love to see these kinds of tests with Logic's CPU meter visible! Thanks for making this video, I'd love to see more of these as I'm currently torn between the M2 Pro Mac mini and Mac Studio for music production, cheers!
@@DisconnectedAudio Right on Matt! Yet to see any videos doing this kind of testing!
24 bit / 96 kHz and 24 bit /192 kHz stress test
Now do the same with large orchestral libraries (Sonuscore, Orchestral Tools, VSL and the likes). To see how well not just the CPU but especially the 16GB RAM cope.
Use virtual string instruments and a 140 piece orchestra playing different instruments that will be a test for it as a media composer that would be invaluable cheers great channel 👍
excellent video!
(many ‘plosive boofs from your mic placement-recommend mic’ing from above )
I use my M1 2020 for music production also and it’s been going great
but am considering leaping to the M2 Pro👍 Also as a sound post production bod of some 40 years i also use it for mixing tv shows too with Pro Tools Ultimate and a plethora of plugins and VI’s
Thanks for the kind words! As for the plosives - that was indeed a mic placement error on my part, very annoying (although miking from above with an SM7b won’t quite work 😉).
@@MarkEllisReviews Absolutely! i would suggest aiming it slightly to your left (to cam) and ideally another 10cm away from you with more gain to suit but you will lose that nice bassy proximity effect …:) i have watched a few youtubes on how to convert a shure sm57 into an sm7b 😮🙈 smaller footprint and it seems to work well
Thanks again for the video- i am now happy to jump from M1 to M2 Pro👍
So, right now… I’m thinking about waiting for the M3 Mac mini.
I have seen some testing on the M3 versus the M3 pro compared to other models in the MacBook.
I was thinking about getting an M2 Mac Mini w 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB hard drive.
But … I think I’ll wait for the M3 Mac mini to come out and see what the story is.
What do you think? Please advise?
(Advice is welcome from anyone on here.)
That is insane head room. M2 pro Mac mini 🤯
What is the latency time when u use 32 sample buffer ? Does it work ?
Am intrigued on how this Mac handles recording audio, latency, how many audio tracks before it stutters etc.
Do you think the 8gb RAM M2 would be okay for playing guitar with plugins?
Are there a lot of trouble with M2, or should I settle with M1 Max?
Please get a pop shield . Or using a compress with a hi pass filter built into it
You're late to the party, mate - we've been through this.
You need to load and play the tracks 251 tracks playing at the same time. Not just loading plug ins and not playing all of them together
Hi, great video, thanks. I am using Kontakt with an Win 11 i5 13400 processor and 16gb of ram. When run a song in Pre Sonus Studio one with like 20 midi tracks and 12 Kontakt instruments, the Track stutters. I am planing to upgrade to i7 13700 or a Macmini m2 regular (with Logic pro). What do you think will be the best? Thanks
I make music in logic, and use a m1 mini 16 ram with out any issue. I think i may wait a few more years to upgrade.
A streaming large samples test should work to break it, given that the SSD in the M2 is half the speed of the M1 haha.
Thank you Mark for the excellent video. Very useful and brilliant presentation. I was in the process of putting together a high end PC spec but this made me think about going down the Apple route. I think the Mac Mini is very good value for money given it starts at £649 and has Thunderbolt ports. That's an ideal solution if you want to have a separate monitor and that there are ways of using external hard drives instead of paying for the Mac Mini internal storage upgrades. My uncertainty is around the amount of RAM available. On the base model the max is 24GB and on the Pro it's 32GB. For large scale sample based projects, is this enough do you think?
you have an answer? was thinking the same
@@vincentolufemi8644 Hi Vincent. Thank you for the reply. I don't have an answer to this yet. I'm still in the process of planning my next music system.
Nice! Would have been good to see the CPU meter while the tracks play....
I just bought this Mac today. Loaded 50 alchemy tracks with MIDi info and got the system overload. It will crash if you copy the MIDI information to the instrument tracks
That’s a lot of random layering. Have fun with the new setup. 😊
Hey mark, amazing video.. Would it be possible to do some stressing videos using some instances of uvi falcon and halion 7 and some Acustica Audio fxs like JAM? Thanks in advance
Hi Mark, may I suggest you get yourself a pop filter for your mic. 😘
It looks like he has the shure sm7b microphone, which doesn’t really need a pop filter(the mic itself is targeted towards podcasting/speaking without needing a pop filter).
Yes completely agree
@@jayg339 Sadly there's a lot of popping occurring anyway. Partly it's down to where the mic is aimed - 'p's shoot directly out the front of the mouth so placing it a bit lower often is enough.
Oh!!!! One more super important thing… I am only interested in music production. I’m trying to put this particular machine together solely for music production.
I wonder how it would do with kontakt instruments ? like big spitfire libraries !
Please someone reply. I need an answer too!
@@nickszabodrums Get the base model M1 max with 64GB RAM, the base model CPU and GPU because music software mainly relies on single core CPU performance and having extra overhead memory is always a plus for the long term. That system should sort you out for the next few years.
So does 'm2 mac mini base version' = Apple M2 Pro with 10‑core CPU, 16-core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine? I ask because there are two options currently on the apple site. Thanks!
Really cool Video! Very informative... But please, get a few inches farther away from the Sm7b, the Plosives are killing me... 🙂
Check the other comments, dude - no one was more aware of this than me after the fact 😉 Thank you for the very kind words, though!
This is the move I need to update badly!!! I’m still on 2012
Curious how the 8gb ram m2 macs fair.
I got a OG 2012 16gb i7 mac mini for my studio daw that may need an upgrade, althoughh runs fine tbh
What's the memory like for sample based vsts like a huge orchestral scores.
What is the space on the SSD Mark after Apple OS and full Logic Pro and Arturia stuff installed etc?
Dear god…your voice! I’d listen to you reading food nutrition labels
uuuugh i wish you had couple of acustica plugins in there tooo! good review nonetheless