Dear Mr. Quest Mandatory After playing for at least 5k experience worth of Sun class I have to disagree with the Weapon of Purity statement. I do want to admit firstly that if you HAVE to tank , you should indeed not go this route. Though I have managed to mostly play with parties consisting of either 1 frontline + Sun Class or 1 healer + Sun Class. Going into level 8, Weapon of Purity is an incredibly strong gameplan. In this build, ofcourse, you don't go Supportive Chant, you choose Illuminate The Target instead. You have Cleansing Force, Mobilizing Axiom, rolling sun modifiers and Wand of Brilliance to consitently get sun every round. Paired with Long Spear, stamina pots and a couple of earrings and you'll be mowing the enemy monsters. At first, I added Beacon of Light. But I quickly realised that at the end of most scnearios, it still had 3-4 charges left on it. Admittedly, it is a little bit harder to pull off since your card management has to be on point. For example: you really can't play Cleansing Force and Mobilizing Axiom in the same turn unless you're resting at the end of the round. But with some experience, I truly believe this to be one of, if not the strongest Sun Class build out there. I want to end this by telling you that I do love your content! Kind Regards Fan
I love protective blessing. If you hit that early with light infused it can win a scenario. If the enemies are hard I spend a few turns blessing as many allies as possible and it can save you a few rounds of work by the end. Excellent for blitz teams if you want to hit hard and fast.
I love the sun class. In my first play through, I went full tank, but I love smacking stuff so respecced. A build that centres around using Weapons of Purity is great fun. Enhanced Defensive stance is a must, and then you need to make sure you infuse light each turn (most often on a bottom action) and blap something with extra damage and advantage.
The Tank build is a great role player, but you don't really need all the tank cards to still be effective, besides if the enemies are dead then there's nothing to tank right? :)
Killing is like healing if anything dies a turn earlier than it would’ve. If still alive and attacks…it negates heal yet you now are closer to fatigue and still have an enemy to deal with. Healing/tanking great and often necessary but gotta have damage to remove enemies who damage you
Just started a new Sun keeper (at lvl 3) after first retirement. Partnered with Spell-weaver (lvl 7) and Mind Thief (lvl 4). Decided to go major Damage - minor Support deck build route rather than prioritising tank. Opting for “kill enemies quicker so less tanking required” tactic. Still planning to add that plus 1 shield to defensive stance though! Enjoyed the vid and long format. Interesting to see just how differently a character can be built..
I played one game with this character, and we did fine, but I felt like I wasn't playing her correctly. Thanks for the guide, as I feel a lot more confident going into the next game we play!
If you can enhance defensive stance and scales of justice, it's a pretty scary combo. 3 retaliates makes alot of enemies pretty irrelevant as long as you can take the beating. Add immobilize to some of your attk cards so archers can get away and laughing all the way to bank. You'd surprise alot of people with how well you top dmg meters.
Recently unlocked Sun class and Saw class, I love the synergy as healer-tanks with decent DPS. Using Sun's Tactical Order to move Saw for Hold Back the Pain or short range heal is very strong.
Just unlocked her in my solo-2p Campaign (Rep 10/Prosperity 3; running Cthulu & Two-Minis currently, only classes I have unlocked minus the starters). I try to lean towards Paladin-types in every game I play, so looking forward to playing the Sun. Not seeing many reasons to put her in just yet. Will be coming back to this once I unlock a better support-type character to go along with
Screen comment at 34:35 - “stun doesn’t trigger retaliate as it isn’t an attack”. Official faq for the board game state that “retaliate triggers after all effects of an attack have been applied”, so even if stun were part of your attack (e.g. Holy Strike) you would take no damage from a [melee] retaliate anyway. Does it work differently in the digital game?
Rolling modifiers are fun. I either hit an enemy and muddle it twice, stun it, immobilize it, +1, +1, and +2 killing it because it only had 2 health in the first place OR I hit it with a +1, -2 and it lives to fight another day.
Angelic Ascencion (lvl9) is nuts with Burning fFash (lvl3), especially if you manage to get in a group of 4-5-6 enemies. It only takes one charge of it, and you are delaing 4+3 damage per monster witd Advantage, plus wound. Room cleaning option if set up correctly :)
You're helping me figure out characters so faster that on my home. Who got time for that !? Also, a great use of tactical orders is to allow your target to use his bottom for something else that moving and it can really really shine before an attack
Great build and guide! Only change I would add would be buying item from prosperity 3 that changes your single target attack into 2 hits basically. Her dmg just goes up so well with that and you already tank so well
Yeah a very good choice if you don't need the shield items especially in combination with holy strike too. I usually prefer the shielding though if I'm playing on increased difficulty with maybe the Axe instead if I have 1 free hand.
nice guide!! but you do underestimate scales of justice. this in fact IS a card you should play on your first turn (nearly every scenario). enhance it with +1 retaliate and you make enemies destroy themselfes in a few rounds. you'lll be at least 4-5 turns faster than without
Having two must play top burns is a big stress on your hand size. You would not want to run Scales top without Defensive stance, and you would then lose the insane value bottom of Scales too. That enhancement is also not the cheapest to get being a higher level card. It can be good yes, but it mostly only works against melee attacks (outside of other tricks) and is bad against summoning or other non attack actions. I think its a risky thing to use when the bottom works so well at controlling a difficulty enemy and doesn't tax your hand. I do play on the highest level of difficulty typically too so enemies hit very hard, but on lower difficulty it could be easier to sustain the damage taken increasing its effectiveness. Remember retaliate is still a trade your making (your health and a burn card for damage) and if an enemy is hitting you for 5 but your only doing 2/3 damage back that's a bad trade. That's also not considering it lowers your own attack values too perhaps meaning you leave a must kill enemy on 1HP at some point. Its always better to be active and kill/stun an enemy before it acts then be passive I have found.
@@MandatoryQuest nice hat you join the conversation, very appreciated. in fact i do always run scales without def stance. at first it looks like you have to but you defenetely don't. enemies do also pull bad modifiers/misses. i almost never have any problems and as i stated, you are much quicker through the scenario because enemies kill themselfes especially with rightenous strength or shield cards, armors etc. this taxes your hand and you will end with about 4-6 cards on your hands most of the time. i do also play either on highest difficulty or one below. if you repeat turns (which you often have to) you can be way more effective and you adjust your strategy as you know. on the other hand it is a big factor which party you run, that could change the way a scenario/strategy turns out. but with one healing card it's another thing for sun to keep it up. on your next run with her, give it a try :) you will practically see how easy some scenarios will get even on the highest difficulty. keep up your streams, they are enjoying. have a nice day
Just to clarify, advantage is draw 2 cards and take the better one. When ONE of those cards is a rolling modifier you add both together. When BOTH of those cards are rolling modifiers you keep drawing until you don't draw a rolling modifier and then add all cards drawn together.
Thanks again for another good video. I haven't played the Sun class yet but will definitely take your advice when making my build. For your 1000sub Q&A video, one of my questions would be, what features of Guild Master mode (if any) would you like to see carry over to the campaign as either an optional setting or a standard feature (ex. Restart round, shared gold, etc.). Thanks!
I might be playing the game wrong but when it comes to pure tanking, the brute cam build better builds: very low initiative move + shield and attack+shield, tons of ignore damage. I found this Sun class to be much more a great high HP support/leader than a tank. Also I'm pretty sure you can't positions yourself and play the bottom of Dfensive STance and the top of Cautious Advance
You know defensive stance is permanent right, and when enhanced gives you 2 shield for the rest of the scenario. You don't have to play it again to get the effect. That's the card that really sets her over the top.
Finally, someone who appreciates how powerful Divine Intervention is! Every other "guide" I've seen goes for Angelic Ascension‚, which is a much less powerful card.
I love bottom attacks (especially ranged) too much to cut Glorious Bolt. I often play Sun as a damage dealer, and her having a bunch of move 4s works well with the helm that gives +1 att when you move 4. That said even when playing the damage build I don't pass up move 3 shield 1 or move 3 stun. Pretty powerful class played this way at low-mid levels.. just tons of move 4-5 attack 5-8 turns.. Throw in bottom attacks, stuns, shields, heals, blesses, and other things like card recovery and you have a solid class. That said I think it is one of the least interesting classes in the game played this way... Like a more durable scoundrel but without the multi-target stuff, positioning, invis, and movement.
Would strengthen on the bottom of “righteous strength” be a good enchantment option? I never hear that mentioned and maybe there is a good reason. I previously played a Cragheart and the strengthen on the bottom of “blunt force” was amazing.
Next up we have the Sun so what's your preferred way to play her Tank or Damage? Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com
If you reach lvl.9 and add all your perks you end up having an attack deck of 29 cards 15 of which are rolling. I play Defensive Stance (enhanced) + Weapon of Purity and we use the updated Frosthaven rules so most of my advantaged attacks are so powerful and useful. If you ever manage to add Bless to the bottom of Righteous Strength and Wound to the top of Holy Strike then you become an ass-kicking paladin!
I think you really underestimate the power of going full retaliate/shield. There is something incredible about going shield 3 retaliate 5 and anhialating a room of vipers / wolves / rending drakes. Sure retaliate doesn't hit ranged but generally you can tank for the rest of the team and throw heals. The bigfest weakness this build has is oozes where you really need to be clearing them out as a priority.
Retaliate can be really fun and often good, but as you said it’s reliant on being attacked firstly, and then being attacked by a melee attack. You also need heals to keep going which takes attack or control actions away from the team. I really like going full retaliate when playing solo and having some fun with it, but ultimately if you want a solid multiplayer campaign build it can cause you some issues in certain scenarios and against certain enemy types. I have alway found better success in general playing to control, kill, and be active over playing passive and inviting attacks hoping for good enemy actions draws. I like to remove as much RnG as possible to allow me to plan. In general though Gloomhaven gives players plenty of choice and opportunity to play how they like and have success, which is i think a good thing. P.s retaliate scales better with player count. More enemies = more chance to retaliate, but it scales worse with difficulty. Harder hitting enemies with more health mean more turns of taking and dealing retaliate damage. Players can exhaust but enemies can’t so sometimes going longer isn’t an option.
@@MandatoryQuest Wow that was a really in depth reply, thanks! I completely agree that certain scenarios, this doesn't work for, especially when there is much range. But most scenarios have a substantial amount of melee, and shield and retaliate will just rip through entire rooms in one go, especially when enemies get two attack actions. Heals are not a problem, you basically use the crappy heals that sunkeeper gets to buffer the damage, and then when you get low just pop a helix ring and its back to normal. This also allows the sunkeeper to do the normal tanking duties even if the enemies are ranged while your damage dealers pile on the grief. I feel like playing retaliate diminishes the random factor a lot as you are effectively only useless if the enemy doesn't attack, much better than relying on drawing the perfect modifier card. With regards to scaling worse vs difficulty, yes and no. Higher level mobs may have higher hp, but shielded enemies also have higher shield, which retaliate ignores. Its all fun, I appreciate you taking the time to reply :-)
PS I would love to see a guide for the oozing grove. As far as I can tell it is the hardest scenario in the game and is highly reliant the oozes not multiplying.
Very nice video! I really like the longer ones personally. BTW, the game sound was WAY too high when you selected the perks. In this video you basically did 2 builds talking about the damage build a lot. I would love to see more of that where you are doing 2 builds at the same time when they are quite different like tank vs. damage for Sun, melee vs ranged for Cragheart. Not really as important for thing like Bolts that has one type of overall build though.
Yeah I noticed after recording the game sound was a bit high, I tried to rebalance where I could across the majority of the video, but perks were hit the worse as it’s rapid fire. The perils of the new setup I’m still getting used to it. Also only 1 Cragheart build exists....
I like the aoe heal cause I like to run with Cthulhu who likes to poison allies and it helps cure them so my support one doesn't have to spam heals to keep everyone up. But all in all it feels sun does a lot well. Not broken but really strong
Just found this, know it's been a while but I wanted to ask: one side benefit of the selection of the cards was the generation of light. But what confuses me is after Defensive Stance is out you really only have two'ish (a 3rd loss) card that takes advantage of the light meaning you have two rounds before a rest action/stamina-potion to again take advantage of light. Is this by design or a side effect of a tank central build?
More of a side effect of the tank build. You focus a lot less on using the elements but if you want to toss in an attack here or there they are much more useful. If you go hardcore tank it can get a bit passive at times so it’s nice to have a few active cards to use.
So I'm sure it would cost way too much gold to ever be actually useable, but could you in theory enhance the Shield on Divine Intervention to give everyone Strengthen?
Suppose you'd enhance Scales of Justice with "Bless" or "Strengthen". Doesn't the "bless" or "strengthen" trigger every time the retaliation trigger? Wouldn't that be a "SLAM DUNK" enhancement, as you would put it? :P @MandatoryQuest
Yes they have great value (especially on turn 1 in many scenarios) and in general you need a mix, but a weighting to early initiative is really important for tanking classes becuase you need to pull the focus, play round long shield/retaliate abilities, and position yourself correctly.
I am curious on your thoughts on why level 9 cards have the ability to gain experience, what is the point in that since there is no level 10 seems like a pointless function to me, am I missing something?
Officially It’s for certain battle goals so that you can continue to earn your check marks and extra perks. Unofficially there are some house rules about level 9+ that some people play.
unlocked him on GuildMaster mode, why i can't play him in new GuildMaster compain with my son from a scratch? And will i be able start compain using him?
Part of the game progression is unlocking the characters. The game is not a typical roguelite style game and each save is separate rather than an account wide unlock. I think if you go to the Steam workshop and look for mods there are some that unlock all characters from the beginning, but its not the recommended experience.
i would like help with one unclear matter. the bootom of the card Defensive Stance. gives 1 sield and movment deduction. when one monster attacks me and damages me 1' will the shield be lost and the card lost too? or is this card a permenant shield for the entire game since you played it. i would really appriciate somone to shed some light
It gives you permeant +1 shield for the rest of the scenario for every attack. The little infinity loop symbol indicates that it is permanent. It does mean that you will always have a -1 move reduction though, however you can choose to discard in from your active area into your lost pile if you want to get rid of it.
I find your engulfing radiance assessment to be too far off. The bottom is very solid depending on what you combo with and definitely more tanky than +1 shield ever could be. Especially if you have curses going out
I will always shy away from recommending RnG dependent ways of damage mitigation such as muddle/disadvantage over shield. I would much rather have the guaranteed shield 1 that does not require having allies dump a load of curses to make it outstanding, or bank on a series of favourable draws if no curses exist. Yes it could prevent more damage in theory, but also it could do nothing in theory. The few general exceptions (cursenado aside) I can see this being better is against enemies with pierce or multitarget attacks, however at high levels ranged enemies can have range greater than 4 too, so it might not even work at all. Its effectiveness also changes with player count/scenario too making it unreliable. Giving disadvantage to say 3 enemies vs 5 is a big swing in usefulness versus a reliable shield 1. The other card at level 4 Righteous Strength has a usable non loss effect on the top, and a reliable damage mitigation bottom with a move too (important for this character) which in my opinion makes it much more useful in most cases. I did say in the video say it was a good usable effect just not my personal preference, and its not a card I'm picking over the other option we get at that level for sure.
To be honest as a pure tank, none. There's a few characters who can put in a solid effort, but if its hardcore all the way tanking you want no-one comes close.
Dear Mr. Quest Mandatory
After playing for at least 5k experience worth of Sun class I have to disagree with the Weapon of Purity statement.
I do want to admit firstly that if you HAVE to tank , you should indeed not go this route.
Though I have managed to mostly play with parties consisting of either 1 frontline + Sun Class or 1 healer + Sun Class.
Going into level 8, Weapon of Purity is an incredibly strong gameplan.
In this build, ofcourse, you don't go Supportive Chant, you choose Illuminate The Target instead.
You have Cleansing Force, Mobilizing Axiom, rolling sun modifiers and Wand of Brilliance to consitently get sun every round.
Paired with Long Spear, stamina pots and a couple of earrings and you'll be mowing the enemy monsters.
At first, I added Beacon of Light. But I quickly realised that at the end of most scnearios, it still had 3-4 charges left on it.
Admittedly, it is a little bit harder to pull off since your card management has to be on point.
For example: you really can't play Cleansing Force and Mobilizing Axiom in the same turn unless you're resting at the end of the round.
But with some experience, I truly believe this to be one of, if not the strongest Sun Class build out there.
I want to end this by telling you that I do love your content!
Kind Regards
Fan
Im playing GH for 4y now and I must say your channel is full of hidden gems.. thanks pal!
I love protective blessing. If you hit that early with light infused it can win a scenario. If the enemies are hard I spend a few turns blessing as many allies as possible and it can save you a few rounds of work by the end. Excellent for blitz teams if you want to hit hard and fast.
I love the sun class. In my first play through, I went full tank, but I love smacking stuff so respecced. A build that centres around using Weapons of Purity is great fun. Enhanced Defensive stance is a must, and then you need to make sure you infuse light each turn (most often on a bottom action) and blap something with extra damage and advantage.
The Tank build is a great role player, but you don't really need all the tank cards to still be effective, besides if the enemies are dead then there's nothing to tank right? :)
Killing is like healing if anything dies a turn earlier than it would’ve. If still alive and attacks…it negates heal yet you now are closer to fatigue and still have an enemy to deal with. Healing/tanking great and often necessary but gotta have damage to remove enemies who damage you
Just started a new Sun keeper (at lvl 3) after first retirement. Partnered with Spell-weaver (lvl 7) and Mind Thief (lvl 4). Decided to go major Damage - minor Support deck build route rather than prioritising tank. Opting for “kill enemies quicker so less tanking required” tactic. Still planning to add that plus 1 shield to defensive stance though! Enjoyed the vid and long format. Interesting to see just how differently a character can be built..
I played one game with this character, and we did fine, but I felt like I wasn't playing her correctly. Thanks for the guide, as I feel a lot more confident going into the next game we play!
Nice glad it helped, she is quite strong once you get used to her.
If you can enhance defensive stance and scales of justice, it's a pretty scary combo. 3 retaliates makes alot of enemies pretty irrelevant as long as you can take the beating. Add immobilize to some of your attk cards so archers can get away and laughing all the way to bank. You'd surprise alot of people with how well you top dmg meters.
That's a lot of gold, but if you can pull it off that would be excellent.
I like the extra vid length deep dive
Recently unlocked Sun class and Saw class, I love the synergy as healer-tanks with decent DPS. Using Sun's Tactical Order to move Saw for Hold Back the Pain or short range heal is very strong.
Sun is a great target for booster shot bottom too
We just unlocked the Sun class in our campaign from the reputation and I'm really looking forward to playing as her.
She’s great you’ll have a lot of fun
Just unlocked her in my solo-2p Campaign (Rep 10/Prosperity 3; running Cthulu & Two-Minis currently, only classes I have unlocked minus the starters). I try to lean towards Paladin-types in every game I play, so looking forward to playing the Sun. Not seeing many reasons to put her in just yet. Will be coming back to this once I unlock a better support-type character to go along with
Screen comment at 34:35 - “stun doesn’t trigger retaliate as it isn’t an attack”. Official faq for the board game state that “retaliate triggers after all effects of an attack have been applied”, so even if stun were part of your attack (e.g. Holy Strike) you would take no damage from a [melee] retaliate anyway. Does it work differently in the digital game?
Rolling modifiers are fun. I either hit an enemy and muddle it twice, stun it, immobilize it, +1, +1, and +2 killing it because it only had 2 health in the first place OR I hit it with a +1, -2 and it lives to fight another day.
Angelic Ascencion (lvl9) is nuts with Burning fFash (lvl3), especially if you manage to get in a group of 4-5-6 enemies. It only takes one charge of it, and you are delaing 4+3 damage per monster witd Advantage, plus wound. Room cleaning option if set up correctly :)
You're helping me figure out characters so faster that on my home. Who got time for that !?
Also, a great use of tactical orders is to allow your target to use his bottom for something else that moving and it can really really shine before an attack
Great build and guide! Only change I would add would be buying item from prosperity 3 that changes your single target attack into 2 hits basically. Her dmg just goes up so well with that and you already tank so well
Yeah a very good choice if you don't need the shield items especially in combination with holy strike too. I usually prefer the shielding though if I'm playing on increased difficulty with maybe the Axe instead if I have 1 free hand.
@@MandatoryQuest since you usually do +4 difficulty, it makes sense to take the shields. I dont play on more than a +2 so maybe that is the difference
nice guide!!
but you do underestimate scales of justice. this in fact IS a card you should play on your first turn (nearly every scenario). enhance it with +1 retaliate and you make enemies destroy themselfes in a few rounds. you'lll be at least 4-5 turns faster than without
Having two must play top burns is a big stress on your hand size. You would not want to run Scales top without Defensive stance, and you would then lose the insane value bottom of Scales too. That enhancement is also not the cheapest to get being a higher level card. It can be good yes, but it mostly only works against melee attacks (outside of other tricks) and is bad against summoning or other non attack actions. I think its a risky thing to use when the bottom works so well at controlling a difficulty enemy and doesn't tax your hand. I do play on the highest level of difficulty typically too so enemies hit very hard, but on lower difficulty it could be easier to sustain the damage taken increasing its effectiveness.
Remember retaliate is still a trade your making (your health and a burn card for damage) and if an enemy is hitting you for 5 but your only doing 2/3 damage back that's a bad trade. That's also not considering it lowers your own attack values too perhaps meaning you leave a must kill enemy on 1HP at some point. Its always better to be active and kill/stun an enemy before it acts then be passive I have found.
@@MandatoryQuest nice hat you join the conversation, very appreciated.
in fact i do always run scales without def stance. at first it looks like you have to but you defenetely don't. enemies do also pull bad modifiers/misses. i almost never have any problems and as i stated, you are much quicker through the scenario because enemies kill themselfes especially with rightenous strength or shield cards, armors etc. this taxes your hand and you will end with about 4-6 cards on your hands most of the time.
i do also play either on highest difficulty or one below. if you repeat turns (which you often have to) you can be way more effective and you adjust your strategy as you know.
on the other hand it is a big factor which party you run, that could change the way a scenario/strategy turns out. but with one healing card it's another thing for sun to keep it up.
on your next run with her, give it a try :) you will practically see how easy some scenarios will get even on the highest difficulty.
keep up your streams, they are enjoying.
have a nice day
thanks so much for your time and expertise
thank you for your guide. i like the sunkeeper. shield for the win.
She is awesome definitely the best tank!
Just to clarify, advantage is draw 2 cards and take the better one. When ONE of those cards is a rolling modifier you add both together. When BOTH of those cards are rolling modifiers you keep drawing until you don't draw a rolling modifier and then add all cards drawn together.
Sorry I thought this was actually a comment on a different video entirely. I’ve removed my previous comment.
@@MandatoryQuest Fair enough MQ, fair enough. Removed my reply as well :)
YT dashboard on mobile is confusing 😅
Keep it up! Love your videos
Thanks glad you enjoy them! 😊
Awesome guide, thanks! I love the SUN class!
We are running a combo of lay on hands with the berserker setting her max hp to 26 iirc - it is doing well atm
Thanks again for another good video. I haven't played the Sun class yet but will definitely take your advice when making my build. For your 1000sub Q&A video, one of my questions would be, what features of Guild Master mode (if any) would you like to see carry over to the campaign as either an optional setting or a standard feature (ex. Restart round, shared gold, etc.). Thanks!
Good question! I'll add it to the list
Praise The Sun!
I might be playing the game wrong but when it comes to pure tanking, the brute cam build better builds: very low initiative move + shield and attack+shield, tons of ignore damage. I found this Sun class to be much more a great high HP support/leader than a tank. Also I'm pretty sure you can't positions yourself and play the bottom of Dfensive STance and the top of Cautious Advance
You know defensive stance is permanent right, and when enhanced gives you 2 shield for the rest of the scenario. You don't have to play it again to get the effect. That's the card that really sets her over the top.
Finally, someone who appreciates how powerful Divine Intervention is!
Every other "guide" I've seen goes for Angelic Ascension‚, which is a much less powerful card.
Angelic Ascension is powerful no doubt but Divine Intervention flat out breaks the balance of the game like all good level 9's should ;)
I love bottom attacks (especially ranged) too much to cut Glorious Bolt. I often play Sun as a damage dealer, and her having a bunch of move 4s works well with the helm that gives +1 att when you move 4. That said even when playing the damage build I don't pass up move 3 shield 1 or move 3 stun.
Pretty powerful class played this way at low-mid levels.. just tons of move 4-5 attack 5-8 turns.. Throw in bottom attacks, stuns, shields, heals, blesses, and other things like card recovery and you have a solid class. That said I think it is one of the least interesting classes in the game played this way... Like a more durable scoundrel but without the multi-target stuff, positioning, invis, and movement.
Would strengthen on the bottom of “righteous strength” be a good enchantment option? I never hear that mentioned and maybe there is a good reason.
I previously played a Cragheart and the strengthen on the bottom of “blunt force” was amazing.
Keeping an attack 2 stun for so long is madness when you have permanent shield 2 to mitigate enemy attacks.
Next up we have the Sun so what's your preferred way to play her Tank or Damage?
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Full on tank!
Sat on the fence my first time! But if I run her again I'm keeping every last thing that says "Shield" or "Retaliate" all the way to L9. XD
@@d.t.5670 Hey no harm going 50/50 if you have others in your party who can share the damage around and you can have some fun hitting things too :)
Both
If you reach lvl.9 and add all your perks you end up having an attack deck of 29 cards 15 of which are rolling. I play Defensive Stance (enhanced) + Weapon of Purity and we use the updated Frosthaven rules so most of my advantaged attacks are so powerful and useful. If you ever manage to add Bless to the bottom of Righteous Strength and Wound to the top of Holy Strike then you become an ass-kicking paladin!
Yeah you have some great damage output potential with her for sure.
I think you really underestimate the power of going full retaliate/shield. There is something incredible about going shield 3 retaliate 5 and anhialating a room of vipers / wolves / rending drakes. Sure retaliate doesn't hit ranged but generally you can tank for the rest of the team and throw heals. The bigfest weakness this build has is oozes where you really need to be clearing them out as a priority.
Retaliate can be really fun and often good, but as you said it’s reliant on being attacked firstly, and then being attacked by a melee attack. You also need heals to keep going which takes attack or control actions away from the team. I really like going full retaliate when playing solo and having some fun with it, but ultimately if you want a solid multiplayer campaign build it can cause you some issues in certain scenarios and against certain enemy types. I have alway found better success in general playing to control, kill, and be active over playing passive and inviting attacks hoping for good enemy actions draws. I like to remove as much RnG as possible to allow me to plan. In general though Gloomhaven gives players plenty of choice and opportunity to play how they like and have success, which is i think a good thing.
P.s retaliate scales better with player count. More enemies = more chance to retaliate, but it scales worse with difficulty. Harder hitting enemies with more health mean more turns of taking and dealing retaliate damage. Players can exhaust but enemies can’t so sometimes going longer isn’t an option.
@@MandatoryQuest Wow that was a really in depth reply, thanks!
I completely agree that certain scenarios, this doesn't work for, especially when there is much range. But most scenarios have a substantial amount of melee, and shield and retaliate will just rip through entire rooms in one go, especially when enemies get two attack actions. Heals are not a problem, you basically use the crappy heals that sunkeeper gets to buffer the damage, and then when you get low just pop a helix ring and its back to normal. This also allows the sunkeeper to do the normal tanking duties even if the enemies are ranged while your damage dealers pile on the grief. I feel like playing retaliate diminishes the random factor a lot as you are effectively only useless if the enemy doesn't attack, much better than relying on drawing the perfect modifier card.
With regards to scaling worse vs difficulty, yes and no. Higher level mobs may have higher hp, but shielded enemies also have higher shield, which retaliate ignores.
Its all fun, I appreciate you taking the time to reply :-)
PS I would love to see a guide for the oozing grove. As far as I can tell it is the hardest scenario in the game and is highly reliant the oozes not multiplying.
Very nice video! I really like the longer ones personally. BTW, the game sound was WAY too high when you selected the perks.
In this video you basically did 2 builds talking about the damage build a lot. I would love to see more of that where you are doing 2 builds at the same time when they are quite different like tank vs. damage for Sun, melee vs ranged for Cragheart. Not really as important for thing like Bolts that has one type of overall build though.
Yeah I noticed after recording the game sound was a bit high, I tried to rebalance where I could across the majority of the video, but perks were hit the worse as it’s rapid fire. The perils of the new setup I’m still getting used to it.
Also only 1 Cragheart build exists....
I like the aoe heal cause I like to run with Cthulhu who likes to poison allies and it helps cure them so my support one doesn't have to spam heals to keep everyone up. But all in all it feels sun does a lot well. Not broken but really strong
Yeah definitely a stronger class overall (and S tier tank) but cannot do it all on her own like some of the more broken OP classes.
Just found this, know it's been a while but I wanted to ask: one side benefit of the selection of the cards was the generation of light. But what confuses me is after Defensive Stance is out you really only have two'ish (a 3rd loss) card that takes advantage of the light meaning you have two rounds before a rest action/stamina-potion to again take advantage of light. Is this by design or a side effect of a tank central build?
More of a side effect of the tank build. You focus a lot less on using the elements but if you want to toss in an attack here or there they are much more useful. If you go hardcore tank it can get a bit passive at times so it’s nice to have a few active cards to use.
Great Video! How or when do you get shield enhancement in Gloomhaven Guild Master?
You unlock the basic +1 enhancement as soon as you unlock the enchantress I believe, which is after 4/5 travel missions.
So I'm sure it would cost way too much gold to ever be actually useable, but could you in theory enhance the Shield on Divine Intervention to give everyone Strengthen?
Suppose you'd enhance Scales of Justice with "Bless" or "Strengthen". Doesn't the "bless" or "strengthen" trigger every time the retaliation trigger? Wouldn't that be a "SLAM DUNK" enhancement, as you would put it? :P @MandatoryQuest
Unfortunately you can only put a +1 there, but it you could do that then yes that would be a slam dunk ;)
@@MandatoryQuest Ow. Maybe it is my installed mod that allows me to do so 😀 Hmm I'll come back with my reports on this slam dunk situation
Why, oh, why isn't Practical Plans initiative 55?!!! OCD is strong with this one.
I think you underestimate the really slow initiatives. Going early is generally better but it's also extremely valuable to be able to go late.
Yes they have great value (especially on turn 1 in many scenarios) and in general you need a mix, but a weighting to early initiative is really important for tanking classes becuase you need to pull the focus, play round long shield/retaliate abilities, and position yourself correctly.
Nightshroud next?
Maybe ;)
Finally got sun to 8 and i’ve watched this like 10 times lol
Not long till level 10!
@@MandatoryQuest haha, thought 9 was the top!
I am curious on your thoughts on why level 9 cards have the ability to gain experience, what is the point in that since there is no level 10 seems like a pointless function to me, am I missing something?
Officially It’s for certain battle goals so that you can continue to earn your check marks and extra perks. Unofficially there are some house rules about level 9+ that some people play.
unlocked him on GuildMaster mode, why i can't play him in new GuildMaster compain with my son from a scratch? And will i be able start compain using him?
Part of the game progression is unlocking the characters. The game is not a typical roguelite style game and each save is separate rather than an account wide unlock. I think if you go to the Steam workshop and look for mods there are some that unlock all characters from the beginning, but its not the recommended experience.
Tywm :) so this is the thing! I will stick to original digital 😁
i would like help with one unclear matter. the bootom of the card Defensive Stance. gives 1 sield and movment deduction. when one monster attacks me and damages me 1' will the shield be lost and the card lost too?
or is this card a permenant shield for the entire game since you played it.
i would really appriciate somone to shed some light
It gives you permeant +1 shield for the rest of the scenario for every attack. The little infinity loop symbol indicates that it is permanent. It does mean that you will always have a -1 move reduction though, however you can choose to discard in from your active area into your lost pile if you want to get rid of it.
I find your engulfing radiance assessment to be too far off. The bottom is very solid depending on what you combo with and definitely more tanky than +1 shield ever could be. Especially if you have curses going out
I will always shy away from recommending RnG dependent ways of damage mitigation such as muddle/disadvantage over shield. I would much rather have the guaranteed shield 1 that does not require having allies dump a load of curses to make it outstanding, or bank on a series of favourable draws if no curses exist. Yes it could prevent more damage in theory, but also it could do nothing in theory. The few general exceptions (cursenado aside) I can see this being better is against enemies with pierce or multitarget attacks, however at high levels ranged enemies can have range greater than 4 too, so it might not even work at all. Its effectiveness also changes with player count/scenario too making it unreliable. Giving disadvantage to say 3 enemies vs 5 is a big swing in usefulness versus a reliable shield 1. The other card at level 4 Righteous Strength has a usable non loss effect on the top, and a reliable damage mitigation bottom with a move too (important for this character) which in my opinion makes it much more useful in most cases. I did say in the video say it was a good usable effect just not my personal preference, and its not a card I'm picking over the other option we get at that level for sure.
What class if any can tank as good as sun?
To be honest as a pure tank, none. There's a few characters who can put in a solid effort, but if its hardcore all the way tanking you want no-one comes close.
@@MandatoryQuest that’s what i thought! Thank you
Divine Intervention + ACDC Blood Pact = GGEZ
Dude... how did you get ALL THIS MONEY? This is a mod? I mean... HOW???
I've played for probably 500+ hours on that save 😉
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