What's Wrong With The Engineer?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- This video is a simple look at the things that make the Engineer a weaker class, as well as what sometimes makes the Engineer a bit... too good of a class. If game balance rants are your thing, you'll probably enjoy this one.
My discord, socials, TF2 servers, merch, information about my in-game settings, and video credits (such as the music used in my videos) can be found on my website at uncledane.com
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I'd say I agree with literally every single thing you said in this video. Though then again I'm a spy main so I'm sure my opinion isn't wanted here.
I'll say this. If you make the engineer a stronger support character than his teammates are more likley to care about his existence in more casual settings. I see so many hardcore engineer players ranting and raving when their team ignores them and their buildings and they get harassed to death.
Sure, everyone understands that a sentry is good when it's the same color as the shirt on your back, but it's not something that's going to stand out to your teammates in most situations. It seems to me that people treat it like scenery most of the time, which is a shame but it is what it is.
Meanwhile, dispensers and teleporters are super engaging for your teammates and they make them love you. Sure, in a lot of situations a gun will get more done than that portable refill station, but if you have that portable team pick me up in the right spot it becomes very clear which one is more valuable in your teams minds.
So if you make the engie a better support then you can expect to see teams taking more care in protecting their engineers and their buildings, which in turn will actually go a long way to mitigate any nerfs you see that are intended to make the engineer less of a stonewall character and more of a back wall character.
Though again, filthy spy main, nothing I say can be trusted.
"I'll say this. If you make the engineer a stronger support character than his teammates are more likley to care about his existence in more casual settings. I see so many hardcore engineer players ranting and raving when their team ignores them and their buildings and they get harassed to death."
Honestly most teams don't really care much for their medics either
Pinning this not just because you agree with me, but more because you bring up an interesting point that I didn't consider: clear-cut support classes get supported more. A lot of Engineer players are complaining that it's tough enough to survive in pubs already because no one helps you. Well if you start keeping people alive more often... then maybe they'll start actually Spy-checking for you! At a higher level of play this isn't as much of a problem because of the increased amount of teamwork, and the importance of the Engineer is more realized - but as it stands in lower-skilled environments like Casual Mode, Engineers are looked at to be defensive tanks who are expected to take the brunt force of everything that is thrown at them.
And to be clear, not to you, but to anyone reading this who is thinking that I want to "nerf the Engineer". What I wanted to make clear in this video is that while I want to nerf only two very specific aspects of the Engineer's role, and two specific weapons that aid those elements too effectively - I also want to BUFF the Engineer in the ways that he is currently too weak (such as healing and supporting). So it's a trade-off. A tit-for-tat kind of thing. A "balance", as some would call it. Not a pointless nerf in one direction.
Tbh making him more support- like in terms of heals probably isn't a good thing - Engineer supports in a different way which makes him unique - Although making him more of like medic may make him valued a bit more in terms of 6v6 or comp, I doubt it will have any lasting effect in pubs\ casual since many don't support the medic begin with
i build them a Dispenser lvl 3 that everyone hogs and no one cares to defend, i place a Teleporter in a good spot that no one is willing to use, but if i place a lvl2 Sentry because no one is helping me spycheck, bounce explosives or somehow deal with an Ubered Heavy, i get vote kicked
I know that feel man
feels bad
Dane had an ambassador to his head when he said "remove cooperative engineering"
Maybe it’s Mr. paladin Holding the ambassador
@spinosarus yep definitely mr. paladin
Knowing the stereotype for it, it would still miss even when it’s touching his head
Ha ha, just like when I say somthing about the CCP
@@da2fortheavy342 or maybe stabby stabby
It's funny, At first I thought "oh this is from 3 years ago it's outdated" then I remembered the last time we had an update. *Sigh*
It kind of is outdated. Jungle Inferno was AFTER this video, and so was Blue Moon
Lol
Hey hey
*Guess what*
@@Nyxael5845 YEEEEEEEEEES !!!!!
"Remove cooperative engineering"
Someone get a Pyro main to check if Mrpaladin is impersonating Uncle Dane again.
I'm a semi pyro main, do I count
@@mahbubmaleksyed5301 u got a flamethrower so thats good
Ugh this is the 5 time this month...where is my flare...
Backburner is the perfect karma for Spy mains
I had to check the date of this video after they said that
Uncle Dane: "I'm suggesting the removal of Cooperative Engineering."
Me who learned from Engineering 101: "Years of academy training wasted!"
Yes
mooooood
*Insert engineer A U H sound effect*
(Engi mains know what I’m talking about)
@@flinguine6049 I get the feeling it’s the auh that comes directly before, “how did you know?” In the heavy is dead. That’s just the memory of that noise that sticks with me the most.
Same partner
I should have known....uncledane was a spy main the whole time
He played the long game
"Medic should be dethroned from his role as the one and only healer"
Banana dispensers:
“Medic is the only healing class”
Ever heard of a sandvich heavy?
All classes have weapons that can let them heal others or themselves in one way or another, scout has candy and milk, soldier has conch and blackbox, pyro can airblast burning teammates, demo has the zatoichi, heavy has lunch, engineer has dispencer, medic is medic, sniper has camper and spy has kunai
@@josep754 neeerd
he meant hps aka healing per sec
my hoovy nanas r most effective
Or a DISPENSER
I feel like I just gotta miss this video. If the first two main points you have are "Remove the ability to interact with friendly buildings" and "Make the engineer a healer on par with the medic" then it's just a no from me.
Right, it was mind boggling to me too. Lets make engi have sentries, shotguns and heal people on par with medic..... Its like he didnt remember how powerful a thing a lvl 3 dispenser is, which other than having uber and being mobile is nearly as critical as the medic is already and I'm an engi main.. Oh yeah and he has a teleporter which brings ppl back from the dead basically if anything engi is near critical in any larger format game mode. You know what else dispensers excel at? Unbiased mass healing, they don't give two turtle fucks about your hats and heals everyone while a somewhat experienced medic is gonna prioritize the fanciest of hat mans. Not saying all medics but the norm for mid of the road casual medics is to aim at hats.
@burtenplays A REALLY good Medic will try and heal everyone up to a good level of overheal. (Technically not to full in 6s to maintain more Uber charge rate.)
And... as for a pocket... it's a combination of score, and the situation. If there's an extremely annoying Pyro gimping your ubers. Uber a Heavy. There's no sentry, amd you have a GODTIER Scout? He will probably clean house. Sentries but their Pyro is dead? Demoman or Direct Hit Soldier.
@@DataDrain02 if you're talking about a situation in the video then I have no idea what you're talking about because it's been 4 years since my comment
AND I didn't read who was in the @ god do I love my situational stupidity, carry on
Damn, that's a good-ass spy. His Uncle Dane voice is almost perfect
2 years late here, but I don't see any flaws with it; are there any lines in particular he stumbled on?
@@tekayo63 It's a joke about how Uncle Dane is suggestion some stuff that could effectively weaknen the Engineer in its current state, and joking that it is not him, but a Spy
@@prediculous8059 It's also a joke about how Spy perfectly imitates the voice of anyone he's disguised as
@@tekayo63 Evryone back to the base pardner
He stumbled on the intro, the real Dane loves dispensers, but the intro doesn't have one
Please don't hurt cooperative engineering... It's those magical moments where we help a f2p engineer build his stuff and then the f2p decides to help build your stuff as well... And then they get their first highfive... It's the stuff tf2 dreams are made of, I tell ya hwat.
If anything, make it so it takes more swings to add metal to other engineers buildings, like 10 or 15 metal a swing, instead of the 25 on your own buildings.
I was about to propose this idea! Oh well.
how the fuck is that amazing who would think being polite is a rare thing and would be this overhyped
My thoughts exactly, co-operative engineering should get a nerf but not so much as to remove it or discourage players from doing it. some aspects of it should still be unchanged such as two hit sapper removal and dispenser metal collection rates. That wrangler shield around the player idea was also spot on.
Nevermind about what I said, I thought it was engineers in general that should have lower metal consumption
thats a great idea, GonBluV!!! I totally agree!!!
The thing wrong with engineer are the nerfs he gets on his rescue ranger.
Jokes aside, what if we gave the wrangler a charge? Like some sort of battery.
Once it's drained, the shield turns off. You can still controle the sentry if you want. You can only turn it on again once you deal [X] amount of damage with your sentry.
I think a lot of people wouldn't like the shield to be removed completely. Like you said.
mrcomp that's actually a really good suggestion, u should send it in to the tf team 👍
I quite like this. Perhaps just have it on a timed cool down rather than damage dealt, but the idea is a good one. Other suggestions could be it can absorb 500 damage (just an arbitrary number) before having a 15 second (again, arbitrary) cool down.
mrcomp could the battery be a damage limit or a time one
Or just make the shield weaker. Right now its 66% protection i think so changing it to maybe 33% would make it still usable
Hyebri Maybe 50% Protection- Wait 33%? There's threes in there, VALVE HAS BEEN LYINH TO US.
“Engie’s role”
*-shows bread roll*
it was great but i would've put a roll on a teleporter
"removing coop engineering"
haha, no
i love to help my fellow engies
That would be a bad idea.
Maybe lower the efficiency at most
Yeah! thats a part of being a "TEAM" in Team Fortress 2 is the coop engineering! The game don't need any more nerf!
I think all metal consumption should go up so instead of 200 per upgrade it should be around 250. This can be exploited though with building then nest. So the building speed and firing speed will go down a little but not too much.
Mandrake exactly!
_THE ENGINEER UPDATE 2_
Changes:
- Reskinned every class to a varient of the engineer.
- Moved all voice lines to engineer
- Every class can place a mini sentry
- Every class has a dispenser on their back
- Competitive is the only game mode now
- You start with 1 minisentry at a time, but can pay only $9.99 to have more mini sentries at once
For the first time in my life
I am sadden from a c0mment
XD I was thinking the same thing. But I don't think even valve would do that. Sure meet your match was bad but the jungle inferno was ok. Witch Means that the updates are getting better.
We should go back to Robotic Boogaloo Era Ideas and have a community Update again. We need more MvM maps, new Aussies, Botkillers, Strange Robo-Cosmetics and reskins, New weapons that can be found as botkillers! I say we go to Valve, stand in front of the doors, and say:
"Hello, we are a collective of Team Fortress players, would you mind taking a minute or two out of your time to hear about our inquiry into developmental processes for the game? We just wish to ask if we can move forward and have a community themed update, in which, we will release a new Tour, new weapons and Aussie Variants, alongside a set of Robotic Cosmetics and Reskins and a Community Safe which holds interesting new hats, stranges, and unusual effects. Please consider this, as we have no say in the creation of such an update, but we would have say in the production of the update. Thank you for your time."
bleh bleh hello I’d like to buy a hundred mini sentry
@@mikee-WizElf aged like milk
the engineer needs more guns
And secondaries!
Valve give Hardhat Jones a revolver
More wrenches would be nice
You need to bring more gun, son
Use more gun
Removing cooperative enineering ?
You must've lost your mind !
He has indeed lost his mind and his comments in videos like this and other nerfs if put in game will hurt it pretty bad for TF2 has lasted this long without major changes, or as a compromise “instead of changing a weapons stats just make a different weapon~variant that does not change or affect or remove the original one.”
ankle slam isn't a very great center mane
Gary The Snail
Hey Gary
I don't agree with your idea that defending classes shouldn't be stronger at defending than attacking classes are at attacking.
While I understand where you're coming from, that is a VERY 5cp-centric opinion. If you look at competitive Payload or Attack/Defend, for example, the attacking team ALMOST ALWAYS wins even though the defending team has such strong options for defending. This is because in those game modes, the attacking team gets to make several pushes, but only ONE of them has to be successful for the attacking team to gain ground. This is why the defending classes are inherently stronger than attacking classes while defending, and balancing the entirety of TF2 over ONE game mode is a flawed perspective.
hes saying to nerf engie because it can make HL a faster paced game, a fucking sentury gun tanks like 6 of my fucking stickys with the wrngler ,then he jsut rescue rangers it out, dude its not fair, and ofc the offenc team is gonna cap becuase they have faster respawns and the game mode was made so the offence should be capping.
I don't have a problem with Engineer getting nerfs (as long as he gets reasonable buffs to compensate) but the Engineer should still be better at defending than, say, a lone Soldier or Scout is at attacking.
And it's very obvious he wasn't talking about HL. Highlander payload and A/D doesn't have "back and forth", that's a 5cp and KoTH thing. And Engineer isn't the only defensive class, last I checked.
Competitve highlander is not the main competitive gamemode of tf2 and therefore no one gives a shit about it
Haze Stratos 5cp should not be a mode in competitive at all. It is made to be played by more than 6 people on each team and competitive focus on that game type is, frankly, idiotic. And balancing towards 5cp comp is borderline retarded. That game mode should barely be in the game, let alone in comp.
"It is made to be played by more than 6 people on each team"
cite your sources on that one. or is that just a conclusion you came up with based on nothing?
"balancing towards 5cp comp is borderline retarded"
so what is considered the main competitive gamemode (and has objectively the best players in the game playing competitively atm) shouldn't be used as a measurement for balance? Should pubs, where 90% of the players are ridiculously stupid and have no clue about the mechanics of TF2, be used instead? Are these people aware of things players who are better than them aren't?
If you'd say "The majority of players don't play competitive 5cp so it should balance towards what the majority of players play" I'd understand. But then that would mean you'd want TF2 to be balanced around 12v12 ctf because 2fort and Turbine are the 2 most popular maps on Valve servers. And both that gamemode and those maps are terribly designed. Crits on cap, engineer stacking, scout stacking, medic stacking, horribly designed chokepoints and sightlines, etc.
source: imgur.com/a/H3FkP
Since you also brought up the amount of players meant for 5cp:
5cp is the only gamemode that can be played with 6 players or less. Generally the maps are designed around transitions with 1 choke and 2 flanks which allows for a clear distribution of players who fight for positioning.
PL is not made for this. You always want 3x on the cart which would leave you with a 4v6 from an attacker's perspective at any time. This is flawed. If I have to explain to you why playing 4v6 is flawed then I'm clearly wasting my time here.
CTF is not made for 6v6. It's been tested in ETF2L. Nobody enjoyed it, it was just deathmatch and it was very unbalanced. The very early days of TF2 was competitive 2fort. It was really bad.
AD can be played 6v6 but aside from maybe Gorge and Gravelpit (which was played competitively for quite a while btw) all those maps are horribly designed. And even the 6v6 issues arise there with the defending team not being able to defend A on gravelpit and giving it up in 6v6 which makes it become a 2cp map.
Your logic seems to be flawed and not based on actual arguments (or at least you did not provide any of value). Feel free to prove me otherwise with a source for 5cp not being made for 6v6 and counterarguments for the other arguments I made. Before you start calling anything retarded at least think about why you think it is and provide some context.
If they remove the cooperative engineering i quit tf2.
mad cus bad
@@josephg1125 not even related to the comment
@@backflip883 It is. He would quit because hes mad that he wouldnt be able to abuse an OP mechanic
@@josephg1125 youre basing it on perspective, if they remove cooperative engineering, setting up would be slower, its a what if.
@@josephg1125 cooperative engineering is comparable to pocket duos, if they removed cooperative engineering, its comparable removing the ability of medic to heal or uber
Sorry Dane, you have a lot of great views on the meta and how to play effectively as engineer, but you're no game designer. I can't agree with more than a handful of your suggestions.
Reduce the effectiveness of healing/ upgrading on allied buildings? Sure. Remove the mechanic entirely? Noooooooooooo.
Sentries can already be effectively countered by soldiers, demos, medics, spies, and snipers. It won’t take a good team "everything they have" to destroy one sentry.
There is no reason to make the engineer a healer "almost on par with the medic" when we already have the medic.
And those are only points from the first third of the video. I could go on.
+Nameless Dude If the problem is that "the medic is boring" then surely the solution is to "make the medic less boring"? Not "completely gut the engineer's defensive capabilities and remove a gameplay style that's been in the game for 10 years"?
Here's the thing: I LIKE some of Dane's suggestions. A dispenser backpack would be a cool addition to the game. But that's what it should be: an ADDITION. It should be an unlockable, replacing the shotgun or the wrench. We don't have any weapons that replace the PDA, either. This would be a cool new, support-centered way to play engineer.
My problem with this video is that Dane is trying to pitch it as a BALANCE PATCH. But what he's doing, instead of fixing what's broken, is completely going against the original design philosophy for the class. The engineer is meant to stay behind the front lines and defend, as well as support the team in ways besides just healing them (teleporters support mobility, disepensers give ammo, wrench supports other engi buildings, etc).
How would it be fair for the engineer to heal almost as fast as the medic, while also being able to dispense ammo, and build teleporters and sentries?
These are some cool ideas. But it is NOT a balance patch.
+Nameless Dude Seeing as we posted similar sentiments at almost the exact same time, I agree. xD
+Nameless Dude Apparently 100% rofl
Agreed, removing the whole engi heal other engi building thing was fucking crazy and stupid. Rethink that a little dane.
Cooperative engineering is the reason I play TF2. Those moments when the last defending sentry is about to fall and a fellow engi manages to save it is the best thing ever!
if that happens.. i always see my sentry getting sapped and the other engineer doesnt care at all
I agree with all but 2 of your points
#1 Cooperative engineering isn't the problem, the only reason engineer stacking ever works is because of poor map design or poor team composition. You even said so yourself in your do's and don'ts of cooperative engineering that engineer needs proper team composition to work effectively. The only reason 6 sentries on a point is ever effective is because there aren't enough people on the enemy team willing to switch to a more effective team comp to counter it. most team comps I see failing to push against multiple engineers usually lack power classes and medics and instead consist of sentry fodder. That being said, most of the maps that allow engineer stacking to work are usually older, poorly designed maps maps like dustbowl
#2 Giving engineer a dispenser backpack isn't necessary. The problem with the dispenser is simply it's lack of range. if you place your dispenser next to the front lines you are often placing your primary backup of metal in a place where it can be easily destroyed if the enemy team makes a push. If we simply increase the dispensers range, the engineer can put his dispenser in a place that both benefits his team and keeps it out of harms way (aka isn't instantly destroyed the second the frontline is overrun)
...I don't think you know how long the medigun beam is.
The dispencer could be healing halfway to mid in some 3-point maps.
Dispenser ranges that big would entirely invalidate Pyro since his DPS is shit and afterburn would be basically negligible within the “healing zone”. The only good think to come out of this for pyro is that friendly pyros would have literally infinite ammo in a huge area of the map, but the same goes for every class in the game, making the spam unreal.
The removal of cooperative engineering is literally stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.
Carl the number nine
l0l ro4zt3d!!!1!!!!!1 💯 💯
In the words of uncle Dane stop worshipping your fav youtuber
Giant Dad more like Giant BAD amiritemyguys
@@niydfass1060 "ro4zt3d!!!1!!!!!1" Is that your internet password ?
@@liveshroomer1417 Oh yea, like all the competitive scout mechanics in the game... oh wait.
Heals are an incredibly powerful thing in a deathmatch shooter, they DESERVE to be a necessity for any team. The fact that engineer can heal AT ALL is already intruding on the entire class role that is the Medic. If it were up to me i’d keep Engineer in his place and keep Medic as the game’s primary healing class, not only by a small margin but by as large a margin as possible to heavily enforce his role as the game’s healer. It should always be “If you want heals, go medic”.
Heals are powerful, but that doesn't mean a shooter has to have a healing class. Look at og multiplayer fps games such as quake 2/3, just health packs are available. Here's a questuon for you- are medics even needed if engineer sentries didn't exist? Sometimes I think medics ruin the game..insanely powerful ubers, medic plus heavy, medic plus phlog pyro. Engineers might get even more worth then due to their dispensers
5:40....The medic should be de-throned ........ luckily Valve never listens to you Guys!
your timecode is broken
5:37 is correct
Co-op Engineering shouldn't be removed... The only reason why this is as you say "OP" is due to the lack of power classes in the enemy team. With less power and more engie on defense.... You end up with more and more counter, ending with a crumbled defense and a win for the offensive team. These nerds should never happen, and good thing valve knows that they shouldn't.
next time you run into 6 engineers here's a list of thigns you can do
have 3 people go uber medic and 3 people go demoman with the stickybomb launcher and lock-n-load
Have 6 people go spy
Have 2 people go spy and 4 people go direct hit soldier
There are TONS of counters, the only reason you can't get past it is because the rest of your team in casual are unwilling to adapt or are just new to the game.
Unfortunately this is pub where communication is practically non-existent.
The True Lord Of Thine Cheese There are plenty of ways to counter 6 Engineers. Über is a powerful tool for taking out basically anything. Combine that with a Direct Hit soldier or a Loch n’ Load demo and you can take down a good chunk of the enemy sentries relatively quickly. Combine this with spies and pyros (to reflect rockets and deal yet more damage to the sentries) and you have a golden team comp for taking down large sentry walls
@@Nightflyermike It's still broken.
The engines just have to whack their sentries. The enemy team has to change their entire team composition, communicate and work together.
i have actually lived with a 5-engie pub that was shut down by 3-ubercharged medics. I saw horror as a engie main.
Classes that can heal: scout, heavy, medic, and dispenser.
Hey dont forget Soldier with the Conch and Pyro can also heal himself by extinguishing teammates
@@theguywithadifferentopinio9060 Soldier cant heal others, sadly
All classes have weapons that can let them heal others or themselves in one way or another, scout has candy and milk, soldier has conch and blackbox, pyro can airblast burning teammates, demo has the zatoichi, heavy has lunch, engineer has dispencer, medic is medic, sniper has camper and spy has kunai
@@remu6841 he can sorta heal by using rage while equipping the concheror
@@cfdeers Wait he can? I thought it only gave a speed boost
"No classes can heal but medic"
Sandvich, banana, chocolate: *Are we a joke to you?*
Aflahul Falihin
Dispenser : Am I a joke to YOU?
@@vincemarenger7122 yes :v
Mad Milk
All classes have weapons that can let them heal others or themselves in one way or another, scout has candy and milk, soldier has conch and blackbox, pyro can airblast burning teammates, demo has the zatoichi, heavy has lunch, engineer has dispencer, medic is medic, sniper has camper and spy has kunai
@@josep754 I think he means the ability to heal teammates, so really only the medic, lunch, dispenser, conch, and madmilk apply.
remove cooperative engineering? I'm very disappointed that you would suggest this. TF2 is a TEAM BASED first person shooter.
but it isnt fair for the other team
yea so its fair they get 5 extra ninuites for every point they cap?
defense is already hard enough when you only get one chance to depend. attackers can get extr time by pushing on through. its not fun to play againest defense as attackers. but its also hard to defend
wrong, it's a war themed hat collector
Jackie Ahem team based WAR THEMED HAT SIMULATOR
the thing that's wrong with engi is that his hat is backwards
Kobolite Owo
Kobolite that's a popular habit of all constriction workers just for fun
Kobolite what's wrong with engi he's not torbjorn
Nope, it's intended to deflect neckstabs.
wearing hardhat is like wearing a cap backwards, so backwards hardhat = upright cap.
Really!? Remove the one form of team coordination in casual? (Engi help engi).
It's poorly balanced in risk/reward. It's too easy to stack engis and basically stop the game. Team coordination should be organizing a push. It shouldn't be just smacking your teammate's buildings for easy game freezing.
Hans Fertrig
If the defending team stacks Engineers, then stack Soldier-Medic combos or Demoman-Medic combos. It's a basic pub strategy, why can't you competitive players figure it out if you're so good at the game?
Hans Fertrig meem + hoovy = engi gun boom boom
Liam yeah that’s ass backwards
Autocorrector Guy,
A bit late on this, but the problem with that is that it's easier said than done. It's easy to switch to engi and help other engis and maybe they help you. Trying to coordinate by telling people to switch classes is far more difficult.
11 players is a lot to carry, especially when there are far too many pick and support classes, and not enough power classes. For some reason, people don't appear to enjoy playing the useful classes (soldier, medic, demoman, heavy) as much as the specialists (spy, sniper, engineer, scout).
In short: Stacking engis is too much easier than stacking demos and soldiers. Just because there is counterplay doesn't make it well designed.
My proposal for the Rescue Ranger is instead of healing fall off, we tip that thing backwards and make healing ramp up, as it stands 99% of the time it's a stupid idea to actually use your wrench for healing if you're using the rescue ranger since you take more risks and spend more metal for less healing, so healing ramp up would force the engies to actually use the wrench when next to their sentry and swapping to the ranger when they're far away, which is the point of both weapons, since as it stands the wrench is basically negated into a sapper remover when paired with the rescue ranger.
Were you drunk while making this or all others tf2 TH-camrs had their gun pointing at you?
I feel like a good middleground between removing Co-operative Engineering, and the deathball of 6 sentries on last point, would be that Engineers can't pick metal out of friendly dispensers.
This would reduce the overall amount of metal in the pockets of the Engies, and make it possible - but a lot harder - to crowdsource a 6-sentry deathball.
never
The last point is near spawn.
Engineers can get metal from their own dispensers as well and will just build those.
Nothing would change.
this is the perfect compromise, it makes it so that cooperative engineering isn't overpowered, but still useful cause other engineers can still repair your buildings with their own metal. it would create an interesting decision-making event where engineers have to decide if they want to use their metal to save someone else's sentry gun, reinforcing defense and protecting better against a push, or save their metal so they can upgrade one of their buildings.
This whole video about engie changes was just to make him comp viable wasn't it?
crituqe. small thing. making engie able to heal along with medic destroys the point of medic just saying that medic is designed around how he is the only reliable source of health. and making him on par with the medic simply makes medic's points of a class built ENTIRELY around healing but engie is both a healer and a sentry builder with this change
Not letting engies help eachother with metal would just result in engies hogging their own dispensers, leaving none on the front for the team.
removing cooperative engineering would take the team out of team fortress 2
there really wasn't a "team" in team fortress 2 except for co-op engie and mvm so why destroy a rare sight dane?
Thats like saying not letting medics help other medics build uber removes the team out of tf2
Engineer should not be the best class
Medic is the best class
Engineer should be on par with the medic.
...What?!
On par with Medic in terms of healing. The most useful ability of the Medic is arguably his uber. Plus, if engie's dispenser was buffed or engie got a dispenser backpack, it'd mean that engie could be a defensive healer (a fall-back option that also provides ammo) and medic could be a more offensive healer (more mobile healing that also allows for pushes every once in a while).
Flash-Flire Yeah, I know. I was just joking around with the wording.
ah, k
@@blunderbus2695 if engineer had a dispenser back pack.
I can tell you, that would not encourage a defensive play style.
He'd become a medic that could charge in with a shot gun, while healing & replenishing ammo for his team mates within a small radius.
Which, doesn't sound very defensive to me
@@catkook543
I don't remember exactly my thought process a year ago and I don't really play TF2 nowadays but I think it was along the lines of Medic being more "offensive" because of his better move speed and Uber, while Engie would be more "defensive" because of the slower healing speed meaning he can't heal in fights as effectively and the ability to make sentries
Removing co-op engineering is not at all a smart idea. Would be like telling medics they can't heal other medics.
Class limits need to be a thing for certain game modes at certain times. You know how everyone goes engineer or heavy at the end of a payload match because they realize they suck? Class limits would stop that. No more Co-op engineering wouldn't. Class limits need to be fair though, for example, if everyone wants to be engineer in the beginning, go ahead. But once that second to last point is capped the limit should be enabled and should be based on team size. In the beginning, just ask players if they'd like to switch, similar to the auto balance thing.
Well, I don't know you but as a Medic main, I can tell there is a REASON it's limited to a single Medic in competitive. Not just because of the double Ubercharges, but because you get overhealed Medics. Also, Uberchains are pretty unfun to play against.
And this would just make it so they go Engineer faster and build an impenetrable nest somewhere else. For example, AT THE START OF THE ROUND using the setup time, like a chunk of griefers did in Upward yesterday.
"Would be like telling medics they can't heal other medics." Horrible comparison. That ones more on par with "Its like telling engineers they cant take other engineers dispenser metal.
A more fair comparison would be "Its like telling medics they cant help other medics build uber" Which as you know medics helping other medics build uber would be so OP like co op engineering is.
I agree to everything but the coopertive engineering thing, TF2 is a TEAMBASED objective war themed hat FPS so i think help people on your team is critical to gameplay.
so you agree that the medic should become pretty much useless in the face of an engineer that can heal as much as he can and build sentries and teleporters?
The Brutal Bros imagine if that was the way it worked IRL. Picture ww2 army engineers carrying more medical equipment than the army medics. Doesn't that sound dumb?
I dont like the whole class limit thing, I really like playing along side 10 engis on 2 fort
>short circuit in Above Average and not Underpowered
what
TF2's networking is so poor that it's borderline unusable
How the fuck
I've had countless fights with soldiers and demos who couldn't do shit against me because I had 200 metal and could click M2 over and over.
Of course, more skilled players would try to counter this, like soldiers who pull out the shotty, but you can still easily fight then with your shotgun after they switch (relatively speaking)
I wouldn't call it above average, but it's definitely not useless
Removing co-operative engineering won't remove the sentry nests. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that it would solve the problem. Not to mention this is a huge part of fun while playing the Engineer (being able to help your fellow Engineers).
The thing about the rescue ranger taking metal that I don't like is that I always saw the rescue ranger as the alternative to using metal to fix buildings, I would use it so that I could heal one building while constructing or upgrading another, and while this change wouldn't make much of a difference (15 metal isn't a whole lot in the long run) it's an inconvenience, and I think that the rescue ranger is there to make healing buildings more convenient. Also it's not like you get the ranger healing for free, you expend ammo that you could be using to defend yourself if you don't have a sentry or a teammate near by. I think a better change would be to 1. reduce the amount of healing per bolt, maybe to 50 like you said and 2. reduce your reserved ammo, that way you have to watch your ammo count and try and manage it like you have to manage metal, or another similar idea is instead of lowering reserved ammo, lower clip size to one and increase the reload speed slightly, that way the rescue ranger becomes a sort of crusaders crossbow for buildings.
Also on the topic of the wrangler, I think that the shield could be changed without removing it or moving it at all. I have a few ideas that I think could work. My first idea would be instead of reducing damage the shield could absorb all or most incoming damage, but have a health bar that can be depleted which will remove the shield, the shield will then have to recharge while the wrangler is away, if you take the wrangler out before the shield is fully recharged the wrangler could either not have a shield or have a shield with less health. Another idea would be that the shield works as it does now with reduced damage but the shield is only up for only 2 or 3 seconds. Both of theses ideas keep the wranglers shield but makes it so the enemy team has to plan around it, they either have to coordinate an attack against the one with health, or they have to time their pushes against the one with the time limit.
Edit: Also I have a problem with two of your points.
1.) Removing cooperative engineering: Just, just no. Why would anyone ever try and remove a type of team work from a game like TEAM Fortress 2, that kind of team work is what makes the game what it is. All that will do is increase the selfishness of the players. This poses a few problems. most of which I'm not going to get into so as to keep this extremely long post from getting longer, one is that people will fight over metal sources more because they know that if another engi takes the metal then there is no way their getting it back because even if an engi with all level 3's accidentally takes the metal from an engi with level 1's than there is nothing to be done, whereas right now the level 3 engi could just help upgrade the level 1's.
2.) Making the engi's healing on par with the medic: I'm sorry Dane I really like you and your content and I respect your right to your opinions, but this idea is ridiculous and it's so simple to see why. The medic heals, that's pretty much all he does, which is why his healing is really good. The engi in addition to healing can heal multiple people at once, give ammo to all those heal targets all at once, build area denial aimbot sentries, and create teleporters, all while also shooting people. Because of this his healing is not as good. So if you made him heal as much as the medic that would be terrible for game balance. This is because when yo go to choose a healer you can either choose the healer that can heal an infinite number of people passively, while also being able to build teleporters and high powered aim bots all while shooting a shot gun, or a healer who can heal one person at time, has to do it actively, that can also uber charge for a few seconds after healing that one person awhile, but the uber charge is droped if/when die. Also the engi's dispenser can still heal while he's dead while the medic can not.
I've got to agree with your disagreement on those two points. I got into TF2 when it went free-to-play and learned to play Engineer by observing other people, mimicking their building placements, helping them upgrade their buildings, and getting mine upgraded in turn. The coöperative, team aspect of TF2 is the reason it's the only multiplayer game I play. Engineer's ability to interact with other Engineers' buildings is a completely unique feature in TF2 that really emphasizes the team aspect, and I think it should be kept. It is possible it could use some sort of balancing, perhaps similar to how two Medics healing the same person both build über slower; maybe Engineers only provide _x_% of the benefit (repairing/upgrading/build speed boosting) to others' buildings that they do to their own. (Where currently _x_ is 100, your proposal is 0, and mine would be somewhere in the middle determined by playtesting. Maybe it could even be variable depending on the number of Engineers on a team, so two Engineers can heal each other's buildings at 90% efficiency but six Engineers only get 45% efficiency or something.)
And speaking as a Medic main, the Engineer is already a very powerful healer. He can heel any number of people simultaneously, while giving them ammo, passively, even while he himself is dead. The only things Medics have on him is mobility, overheal, and übercharge. They're both powerful healers, they just fill different roles: Engineer can keep an entire team healed (and supplied, something Medics cannot) while holding a point (and providing teleport services, a sentry gun, and his own damage output besides) while Medics can move with a team, overheal them, and every so often provide a few seconds of potentially game-changing superpowers to a lucky person or two. I think they're both pretty balanced for what they do already.
A thought-provoking video, for sure! (And I do agree that the Rescue Ranger really probably should consume some metal for its healing.)
Philadelphus why should it consume metal for its healing? the rescue rangers doesn't heal that much. adding that to the rescue ranger would make it an unusable weapon.
The Rescue Ranger heals 60 HP per shot, compared to 105 per hit with the stock wrench, so a little more than half when you factor in firing rate (as it also fires slightly faster than melee swing speed). Don't get me wrong, I personally like it not having a metal cost, but it's just a bit too powerful as it is now. Of course, it doesn't *need* to have a metal cost added to make it more balanced (decreasing the amount it heals slightly, or giving it a smaller clip would probably work as well) but this change will hardly make it unusable-if you're using it now, you _already_ need to periodically pick up ammo somehow in order to keep firing it. At 15 metal per bolt (assuming you heal the full 60 HP each hit), starting from 200 metal you could fire it for repairing 12 times before needing more metal, and the Rescue Ranger can only fire 20 shots in total normally anyway (4 in the gun + 16 in reserve), so this will mostly just mean needing to pick up ammo kits slightly more often. I wouldn't mind seeing the ratio upped from 4-to-1 (15 metal for 60 HP) to 5-to-1 (12 metal for 60 HP), though (which would allow 16 repair shots before needing to restock metal).
I hope dane realizes the harder they nerf engineer the less all his engi cosmetics and aussie wrench will be worth
don't think Dane's too shortsighted to put his cosmetics over the game.
When you lose against a ton of engineers:
Extremely disagreeing with your "Taking the med off his throne" part. In my eyes medic is mostly healing,and if you take that from him he has very little. Engie,on the other hand,is securing a zone and empowering the classes in that zone. If you really want to buff Engie's healing increase the dispenser's range and/or healing/second
Medic has the power of infinite crits on his melee weapons tho
You're not wrong
I hope valve doesn't see this
too late boy
StiKyou14
if they do they are still to lazy to change the stuff
They genuinely dont have enough staff memberes to do any updates.
D4nk same
The Engineers need a new hat
i mean helmet
Yes.
I agree. A lot of head-based cosmetics for Engineer have primarily been hats or head-modifications. A good item that I'd consider to be a helmet, or a variation of the Engineer's, would be the Industrial Festivizer. Very nice cosmetic, in my opinion.
I have some concerns.
While I do agree that the Engineer should be less of a defensive character in a meta where we balance around not making the game go at a snail's pace and that the Engineer paired with the Wrangler and Rescue Ranger is the most disgusting thing ever, I don't agree that he should be ANYWHERE near as good of a healer as the Medic.
Why? Because that's the Medic's job. While almost every class has a way of healing themselves, and sometimes others, the Engineer is ALREADY the only one besides the Medic that can consistently heal people. Sure nowhere near as good as the Medic and he doesn't build Uber, but that's fine because:
The Medic heals people.
The Engineer, makes buildings.
And that's how I believe it should go. Every class is very different and giving a class another's role would be kind of... dumb? It'd be intruding on their role in the game.
What I DO think is that he should have a Mini Dispenser though... it'd be cute.
HE AINT SUPPORT HE IS DEFENSE NOT A GOSH DARN HEALER
I have a good idea for something like your dispenser back pack, make something like the mini sentry but a mini dispenser, it’s just a faster placed and not upgradable lvl 1 dispenser with less health that costs the same amount as a tele, it would make a much more effective push style because it would be something you can throw up in the middle of battle, it pops up fast heals your team a little if not all the way and it would break stale mates instead of creating them
I don't think engi stacking is a real issue. I'm a medic main and my friend mains demo and heavy, on most maps all sentries in a chokepoint are reachable within one uber. On some maps, engineers are able to put sentries in very seperate yet equally effective spots. On maps like these, a team is usually forced to run atleast two medics (or get lucky with the ubersaw) to counter the sentries. Honestly, most of the difficulty and pain that comes from pushing sentries (for me atleast) is the fact that they can be in so many different places not the number of them or healrate on them. And I don't think restricting sentry placement is a good idea at all. Part of the fun in engineer (for me) is putting level 1s or 2s in stupid spots to catch flankers off guard. Honestly, when I think of problems with engineer, I usually think about all the other classes.(this is true for most classes) Changing the world around a character is probably the most effective way to fit them in. Now, I'm not talking about major things, just ways to encourage play with or against the engineer. I think the loch and load is a good example, it's a weapon specifically designed to deal with the engineer. However, it's greatly outshined by the stickerbomb launcher. Another flop is the batallion's backup. The resistance to sentries is a good idea, but it doesn't work in actual play (my experience). A good anti-engi weapon I think is the cow mangler. The mangler allows you to stun a sentry for 6(?) seconds and then your team can go in and attack the sentry. The bonk is another good example, while the bonk has many purposes, one I see used rarely is the ability to draw sentry fire and allow your team to push in. I think in order to make playing against large engi groups less grueling, TF2 needs more weapons that encourage teamplay to overcome obstacles.
(2:05) Stacking multiple buildings - What about sapper that would multiply his damage depends on how many buildings are near (has to be sapped too) ?
Brilliant!
This is absolutely the best idea that would completely fix the whole power in numbers thing.
I dont mind :D
Uncle Dane probably shed a tear at the Rescue Ranger nerf
StickMaster500 I see you pissing around
For the short circuit;
Primary fire shouldn't use ammo, but should be clip based. Alt fire should have a clip of maybe three, reload one at a time, and have maybe a 1-2 second interval between shots (like cow Mangler or pomson clip)
Edit: I mean the primary should reload all at once and also maybe have a damage nerd if it doesn't cost metal.
To be honest Dane, I feel like you mostly feel this because you play in valve servers a lot of the time, which, are bound to have bad players in them, bad players incapable of dealing with an engineer or multiple engineers easily~
Yes. A Wrangler and rescue ranger combination with a pyro can be strong but it's not invincible.
That sentry might be able to tank shots, but the engineer can't.
With that being said, I still wouldn't mind a *slight* wrangler nerf, but otherwise I think engineer's pretty ok for now~
Additionally, you're thinking WAY too hard competitively for some of these changes, hell some of the things you're suggesting (speed pad for example, I know someone else came up with it but still) would change the class too much in my opinion.
Additionally, speed pads would become useless the moment a whip soldier is on your team~
Overall, you're suggesting way too many things in a single video, it'd change far too much at once and engineer mains would need to start learning most things over from the ground up~
I'm in an odd state of not agreeing with most of what Dane says in this video but at the same time I'm not against it.
But for one, Dane keeps saying Engineer is a support class when in actuality he's a defensive class
Scout, Soldier and Pyro are offensive classes
Demoman, Heavy and Engineer are defensive classes
Medic, Sniper and Spy are support classes
True, with certain weapons these classes roles can switch but overall this is what each class is intended to do. Engineer is supposed to be defensive, only really changing things up with weapons like the Widowmaker or Gunslinger.
well... Yes and no. Valve has mentioned that the classes do not completely fit the category they are put in. I would absolutely put the sniper in the defence category instead of the engi and put the engi in support. But that isnt really accurate eather. And the heavy is problably the best class to push the cart on pl maps because of his tankyness but yet he is put in defence (I know you can argue that he is defending the payload but I like to think he is attacking)
However the demoman and heavy see a lot more frontline use than the engineer. Does this mean the engineer is supposed to be on the frontlines? No. The three categories are more suggestive of what the classes are good at rather than chiseled in stone.
actually demo is both equally depending on situation, he is the best class at instantly going into a strong offensive or defensive class, the soldier can do this as well but not as effectively. Soldier is more of a versatile (meaning he is both offensive and defensive at the same time. and the demo is like a switch where he goes offensive or defensive depending on what your team needs at the current situation
depends on level on comp play and preference man. If you go into high level most people will say scout is the strongest/easiest then demo due to how powerful the class is at a high level, but either way it depends on individual player and team play style.
LMAO? Shotgun pocket is not used much anymore and instead use gunboats so that people can rely on on their scouts to do more work. The only times shotgun pocket is used is if your pocket can push with ubers or if your scouts are not doing to well and you can use your shotgun to clean up/ deal more damage. and you're straight up dumb if you believe soldier is better than demo in every way. Demo has abilities that surpass the soldier in many situations please, the class has a restriction of one for a reason
As a Medic main, suggesting that Engie should be as near effective as a healer and medic should be dethroned of his role as the only healer is very bad. The more you make other classes do a thing another class specializes in that thing makes that specialized class obsolete.
And if people are going to say "But Medic has Uber" you do know that Medic's main purpose isn't uber but healing people effectively, right? Being able to uber is just a bonus to that. And say supposedly that engies can heal about 20hp/s in an area and assume that its the dispenser backpack suggested but can't overheal. That's much better than Medic since you can heal multiple targets at once, something Medic can't do with his mediguns. People don't know hard it is to top off health for about 6 allies under fire with the stock.
If engie is going to be nearly as effective as medic in healing, might as well call tf2 overwatch since healers in that game has that same problem where some healers are better than others.
I believe the engineers role is that he is supposed to build defensively, and claiming that he should be a second best healer would kind of undermine the medics one and only purpose, to heal. If this is about balancing the engineer to fit a more competitive role then I can see your point but your way of playing him is different to the area lockdown most engineers like, and I prefer the engineer to stay as he his. Though I do like the video and I agree with your statement that the wrangler is a bit overpowered.
I agree with mostly everything u said but i still dnt entirely have ur opinionon cooperative engineering. U see uncle, an engie nest isn’t impenetrable, it simply requires an equally cooperative team to destroy. Im an engie main and lemme tell u this uncle, there will always be oblivious engie players who will turtle instead of support. Its part of the learning curve of tf2. I also think that making so many rules in regards to the essentials of the engie would make him too confusing for new players to play with. But anyways luv ur vids man
I honestly really like the boost pad concept, that's something I'd use regularly. My concept of it, is that it'd be directional, so placement is still a major factor, rather than just putting it right outside of Spawn. Ideally, it'd also affect enemy players, so it could be used for traps as well, launching enemies several feet forward.
I don't know why, but this video reminds me communism
cool and good
"calm down guy, this is not like "OMG UNCLE DANE SAYED THAT WE NEED TO NERF SOME SHITS, LETS DO IT OR WE WILL DIE AAAAAA"
I had a similar feeling, mostly because heavy change is associated with socialism. Which I thought was kind of funny, too.
Cause its crappy and oppresive?
+Cheesle2
Im not saying that this video is opressive like communism and something like that, i just saying that this reminds me communism for some reason(i don't know why)
I’m sorry for this but in this you mention that engineer shouldn’t be S tier but then the next segment you mention how the engineer should be S tier taking down the Medic but the medics up there for the Uber charge and the healing
"the medic class is the only class able to heal" RIP sandvich and dispenser
The tier list you've used is for 5cp tf2. Scout is only too powerful when there is no engineer and spy is only too weak when there is no engineer aswell. Heavy is as powerful as the soldier in a gamemode where theres a defensive side and same goes for engineer.
What are you on about? Theres nothing wrong with 6s its just that the gamemode that they community is currently playing is fast paced which makes it fun but also makes 5 out of the 9 classes nearly unplayable which also fucks with the balance like making scout extremely powerful and making spy nearly useless. Its not competitive 6v6 tf2 that you should be hating but rather the community's attraction to a gamemode so flawed that it's closer to quake than it is to the tf2 we know and love.
It wont kill the game but if they stick with it competitive tf2 will never grow simply because people main classes other than the 4 most mobile. And changing the other classes to become more mobile would remove what makes them unique and just turn the game into quake.
ZeRo5 well not increasing the playerbase is the same as killing it. Since no one can play the game forever....
The game wont die because we're stuck with 5cp in competitive but it we will never make it an esport
Heavy is stronger than soldier. Much stronger. But Heavy is very boring to play.
I feel a dispenser back pack wouldn't rally fit the game, especially since engie has backpack cosmetics. To make him a better healer I'd prefer the workshop submission of the mini dispenser you can place 2 of. Maybe even give the mini dispensers more healing but no ammo.
Also I feel a good rr nef that would fix the reason it got re-banned in 6's (the burst heal and abandon strat to waste uber) would not be to give it cost or drop off, but to slow it's fire rate so if there is concentrated fire on it you can't out burst heal it without putting yourself in danger with the wrench.
Who cares about cosmetics when it comes to weapons? I can't equip silly shoes on my soldier because I am wearing the gunboats. So, that is already a thing.
I like your idea about the slower firing speed on the rescue ranger though.
Well let's look at it the other way around, have you seen any backpack cosmetics added for soldier? Also being able to diffrentiate gunboats from cosmetics in the heat of battle isn't as important as identifying a major healing ability from a sewwed together dispenser backpack cosmetic. Also, wearable buildings doesn't really fit the concept of engie, the builder and upgrader.
END films Oh, silly me. I totally forgot that the engineer was not usually wearing a backpack and that the dispenser is actually one of those cosmetics. I am sorry. But you could just turn the cosmetic into the actual weapon. I also don't think recognizing which weapon the engi is using is very important in this case. Seeing how powerful this backpack would be, i think it should be a replacement for the shotgun and remove the dispenser from the PDA. So you just assume that the engi has a shotgun anyway, and it can only benefit you if he doesn't have one.
But maybe another solution would be to make the backpack noticeably bigger than other cosmetics or make it distinguishable in another way.
Edit for the builder and upgrader part: He can already carry them around, and i actually think adding the opportunity for the engi to be more of a support and less of a damage dealer would be very nice. I feel like this is more about "taste". Sorry i am lacking a word here, English is not my first language. Pyro was supposed to be an ambush class given his original design, he also changed. This might as well happen to the engi.
i totally disagree with your points about making the engineer able to heal people more directly and about removing the ability to upgrade other engineers’ buildings.
Before I start, I just want to apologize if I'm saying bs or if my english isn't really that good as it's not my first language, all I wanted to do was to write my opinion on it (also always remember that I respect you as a content creator and as an Engi main and I don't deny the fact that you are really expert when it comes to balancing the game):
I know it's an old video and that it doesn't necessarily reflect your opinion 100% (or maybe it still does) today but making Engi heal in pair with medic would completely make Medic outated in a way because no matter what, even if medic itself has the advantage of healing with precision with a crossbow and can still move around and support the team in the frontline, the change would make the Engi a much picked class and medic in pubs in general would become less picked than he already is, Medic itself has tons of counters while engi only really has three, four if we also count the uber push I guess...
Medic itself has the Uber ability which then again you could say that it's really good and that it would be the only reason on why Medic would still be picked in pubs, but Engi already does a good job at area denial and it also helps the team with passive heals and infinite ammos, removing the ability of cooperative engineering would just lower the skillcap of Engi and also make it boring in a way, not really a good trade to balance it tbh, if the problem is that he's way too stong on last points, give his counters stronger weapons to deal with them, one that I saw suggested a lot was the "Explosive sapper" and so on...
I still think that Engi shouldn't be that strong in healing as he is already a good hybrid and a Jack of all trades, and making him stronger in healing makes him definitely STRONGER, I don't think that any of those changes should be applied, but then again who am I to even speak about it, I'm just a mr. nobody, what I'm trying to say is that medic already has a shitty life at dealing with the fact that you can't defend yourself in a proper way and all the enemy team wants you dead and you rely on your teammates, while Engi has a shotgun, can instant build sentries and in general has a bigger arsenal that changes his playstyle completely and makes him hard to play against when he knows what he's doing, maybe it's just me being newbie but I consider myself good enough at the game, maybe it's because I'm a medic main or maybe because in general I think that Medic should be the one that needs changes a lot, both buffs and nerfs and not engi who's already in a good spot and really necessary in a team (unless we talk competitively, in that scenario I think he should absolutely need some buffs I guess but not in healing as it would screw the balance of the game and as Valve said, "We don't want to make a class do something better than another, we want them to have specifics roles" and they already almost broke that thing by making pretty much spy and sniper the only pick classes stratefically speaking that can kill you offguard...
I feel like the pomson would be cool as a hitscan laser, without the Uber/cloak stuff, that did good damage at medium-far range. It would be cool to have a literal laser and would mesh well with engi’s theme
Ye
Attacking team; *gets to last point*
Red Team: _Texans Together strong_
I know this is an old video but the fact you suggested that engi become on par with medic in healing is TERRIBLE.
It makes medic look like a joke and because how reliant medic is to his teamates engi becoming on par with medic will just mean that people will stop playing medic and go for engi because he can do healing and more.
"Removal of cooperative engineering"
Did the spy mains took you hostage Uncle Dane?
buff the destruction P.D.A it is too weak
First time I've watched a vid just after upload
Wow likes on a comment "i" wrote
I'm not new just usually late to vids
One thing about nerfing the wrangler shield to make the damage get dealt to you is that a medic could be healing you and make the wrangler shield infinite.
"The ability to penetrate players"
;)
i do think you're right about some of the cooperative engineer parts, and i agree with how they should nerf it EXCEPT for healing other engies buildings. for one, i think there should still be a little bit of co-op engie teamwork without making it too powerful. secondly, healing other engies buildings can be important as the original engineer isn't always there to fix it, while upgrading and gathering metal from others' buildings makes it too easy for groups of engies to build level three buildings extremely quickly. in short, allow them fix eachother's stuff but not help each other otherwise.
I have put hundreds of hours into this game and have never once heard of the six engines all turtle together tactic
dont worry dane,
THE ENGINEER IS ENGIE-HERE
13:51 Bap
2:40 that's bullshit
Aww geez Rick
if the wrangler's shield is moved on to the engineer that promoting engineers to shield their sentries when it's low
Was this video released on april first?
Random thought, just noticed that the wrangler looks like an old atari 2600 controller without the dish and handle on it.
I agree with most of this. What i really do not like is your idea on removing engineer co-operation. It's satisfying to help friends!
See, removing coop engineering both A: would never happen, and B: be a massive detriment to players. The game is TEAM fortress, and we try to support our team. If the enemy team stacks engi, stack his counters. Bunch of demomen and direct hits with medics out the ass. Engi CAN be strong in herds but like, you will just get countered by everyone grabbing the like, 9 different weapons specifically designed to ruin engineers shit. Stacking a class means stacking a counter, and erasing the entirety of cooperative engineering would punish those who just like to assist engineers.
Wrangler counters all of the things you mentioned
@@josephg1125 Doesn't counter sappers or knives to the gooch. Also, the wrangler is just op in general.
@@lordsickomode It does. Kill the spy with the wrangler before he can sap/stab
@@josephg1125 I mean by the same coin use your shotgun. And whatcha gonna do when the laser pointer is useless and the spy slaps a sapper on and now you have to switch weapons? You would be left vulnerable for a sec.
@@lordsickomode You can easily kill a spy before he can sap unless you place your sentry right around a corner which only a small brain is gonna do
I think that the Rescue Ranger needs to be worse at healing. Whether it be through a lower metal-to-health ratio, or less health per shot.
It sounds like you just want every engine to play like you do which is battle engie well I don’t like to play battle engie and if you nerfed the defense ability I would greatly less enjoy playing engineer because I play him to be a defensive play style and I feel like there are a lot of players with that mentality
I know that its already past Jungle Inferno, but what if the Rescue Ranger had reversed healing fall-off (heals more the farther away you are)
I know that this is an old video but the "healing falloff" is interesting. I think that it should work in the reverse, more healing the further you are, less healing up close. Kinda like Crusader's Crossbow
I had to check if this wasn't uploaded on april 1st
I agree the changes of rescue ranger and the pomson but...removing cooperative engineer and change the teleporter to speed boost!Ik i'm a scout main but xD
CasenC *scunt
DeadFromInsideMan Oh ._.
uncle dane: meDicS aRe THe ONlY claSs thAt Can hEal
hoovys with there sanviches and spamable bananas: sad pootis noise
If they get rid of the shield while using the wrangler there’s no clear indication of if a sentry is being wrangled also I feel like some people would just put a mini at spawn and run at people with the wrangler
“No other class has the ability to heal”
Heavies lunchbox items that can be dropped for teammates or eaten normally:
In my opinion, as each engineer is added after 2 you should make his buildings weaker and weaker so it is easier to take them all out
the short circuit is honestly just really anoying to fight against. the engineer can basicaly just turn of your ability to aim by just right clicking and theres no way to counter it. and while yes the engineer can fire only 3 orbs before he runs out but even then its anoying because your basicaly forced to sit there and wait for the engineer to finish wasting his metal until you can actualy fire and even then he can just refill his metal at a dispenser and continue to fire
0:42 no stupid, everyone knows the engineer would bring cornbread to the table.
Well good thing this was three years ago