33:30 What people don't get is, if the raid goes badly it's still a good stream. It's like how critics say they enjoy bad content just as much as good because either way they have something interesting to talk about. That people are watching your stream and sharing an intense experience with you, is way more important than whether the experience is good or not.
Yea, I think people who hate hate watch stuff enjoy hate watching it cause it give them a purpose..... To hate watch someone and talk with others who also hate watch that person and give them a community. While in other streams if something bad happens it's good content cause then it's not the same ol' content and they can clip it and share it to there fave reddit for karma. And the reason streamers are parasocial just like viewers are cause streamers are just viewer's who stream. They are human like you and me. 🤠 🤠 🥸
I just realized why being a VTuber is so popular nowadays. You don't need to look good on camera, any negative critisism is directed to your character/avatar so you can be yourself without fear. People can build a connection with you without it being actually you, and they can't stalk you because what they like doesn't really exist. Totally safe, simple genius
The "be yourself without fear" part is the sole reason I've occasionally felt some draw toward it myself. Then I remember that literally nobody is going to watch or listen to me if I am myself.
I'm mixed on it, because it does afford some kind of safety to streamers, but also doesn't hold them accountable when they do unethical and immoral things. I'm sure you could think of at least a few scenarios. Another thing I don't care for is that many of the vtubers are using sexually provocative avatars and it manipulates viewers. I also have an issue when they are using avatars that make them look very young and it's sexually provocative. I don't think there's not just boundaries for the para-social viewers, but also the vtubers, and I'm seeing them cross it often with no accountability and their mods just ban people criticizing, and it seems that no one cares to criticize vtubers. I don't think it's worth my time personally to watch streamers in general that are just fake, they just make up whole situations for content. If I wanted to see people who are fake I would just talk to more people in real life. I'm actually very social irl, but I prefer to get my news through the internet then these 24/7 "news" channels. I also enjoy the comedy. That's what I like about Asmon, he doesn't wear sexually provocative clothes, he's real even when he's an idiot, and he has no need to hide behind an avatar, so he's personally accountable for what he says and does. I also like that asmon responds to criticism, and doesn't ban genuine critics.
@@Arbaaltheundefeated unless you are complete trash that's hard to imagine. But it can also be a message of what works and doesn't work. Sometimes we have to deliberately change ourselves, grow some. Still likely find a niche audience and sometimes that's okay too
Asmon is a good reactor. He's good at it and knows how to react even with an awkward and unruly hairline. No doubt he's good at reacting with a good hairline. His takes and verbiage are on point. I bet he is one of the few popular twitch streamers with good reacting form. Imagine Ludwig, xQc, Hassan or Destiny reacting with such a hairline. They'd all be awkward and goofy whereas Asmon actually knows how.
It's not just internet - look at things like the local TV weatherman. People see him every day and feel like they know him. When they see him in person at the mall or some event, it's like he's their uncle or something, but of course he has never even see these people. The internet has extended that to regular folks and even larger reach than local TV celebrities.
At least not the VTuber company employed ones. The companies care a lot about public image and if word got out that one of the VTubers were 30, they would lose a ton of fans. But the individual VTubers might as well be 30, yeah.
Yeah and thats cool, right? Like, if I was a mid 30s woman I would love to have an option to just make myself more beautiful without surgery or anything like that.
@@Omnis.satanica.potestas_omnis several are in the thirties just from the stuff they talk about. Vtuber companies aren't these idol agencies that need to employ talents from 16 to 20-something, one of the huge appeals to become a virtual streamer/singer is the fact that IRL age stops being relevant.
For me, living with a life long depression, sleep depravation and spectrum diagnoses, there are a lot of content creators i enjoy following, because i am not judged by how messed up my life is. I know it's not " friendship " as irl, and that line is clear for me... but sort of accepted in an open and welcoming community, while fully knowing i am a viewer. I rarely respond, i use twitch every third ice age unless it's a Thursday.. and i don' t stream myself. Nontheless, the truth however is, that many CC's are a big part of me still being alive, and i doubt i can never express my gratitude for this or repay that. I can only keep watching and supporting in what ways i can, and sending my warmest wishes for CC's like Asmon etc to have years and years ahead with more content and shared experiences. Thank's all for being there in hard times, even tho you may not have known it. Take care folks.
This is totally correct human social function to feel an emotional connection to these streamers. They only call it parasocial when you ask something of them, not when theyre spilling their personal life publicly for support or taking your "donations"
Some of the earliest examples of parasocial relationships I can think of would be with newscasters. Newscasters are some of the most stalked people on the planet. When you think about it, they are essentially react streamers with a very strict schedule.
This reminds me of a time when I was a cashier and the lady from my area's health works segment of the news came through my lane. At first I didnt recognize her, but felt she was familiar.. and she enjoyed that I treated her like a regular person--i could see just how uncomfortable she was when my boss came up to her and was like OMG ITS YOU, OH I LOVE YOUR SEGMENT.. I've had other "celebrities" I've had the pleasure of serving, and they all appreciate being treated like a "nobody".
I watch TH-cam in the same way people listen to podcasts tbh. I like longer form videos on topics I like, but I also like the structure and focus videos have as opposed to the loose, casual conversation of podcasts. I probably treat discord almost like a podcast that I can contribute to when I feel like it. Sometimes I'm leading the conversation, sometimes I'm watching my friends stream and listening to them talk about whatever game they're playing
Parasocial stuff is fine to a degree, but you need someone around you irl to be able to pull you back a bit if you can't do it yourself when depression, disaster, or tragedy strikes and that link is all you have. It can suck to have no one, and a streamer can make that pain go away for a bit, but eventually it has to be balanced with something in real life, or with friends you are around either irl or discord, just to blunt the effects of your mind warping.
Yeah, I think that true. A degree of parasolcialism is totally fine, as long as you have actual life friends that you are very close to. But of the parasocial relationship is the only/The closest one you have its really unhealthy and bad for you.
@@EcnalKcin What you describe is extreme parasocialism. What she means is that its fine to feel some sort of a emotional connection to s streamer. Of course, if this is the only connection you have or starts to be a very strong connection its very unhealthy for you. But as long as it stays within reason its fine, even normal. Thats what she said and I personally think its a very important and good point to make.
@@EcnalKcin No she does absolutely understand it... Because while you would not call them a friend, you will form an emotional connection to them (Like you would with a friend). We all feel some form of connection to our favourite contend creators and thats normal and fine (And per design) as long as that connection stays within reason, as long as this connection doesn't grow to personal or that connection deosn't become our strongest/only connection. This is what she meant and in that sense she understood it extremely well.
I don't necessarily think having a parasocial relationship with content creators you like is a bad thing, but there are definitely people who can take things way too far and just be overbearing or creepy. I think caring about someone who makes content you genuinely enjoy and it being a mood lifter or the highlight of your day that day or something like that isn't unreasonable. But to sit there and DM the anime girl Vtuber that they should date you for x, y, and z is too much.
@@handlerone5172 Meanwhile all titty streamers:.... My friend being parasocial ain't bad, it doesn't mean ''pretend bf/gf'', everything is fucking parasocial nowadays, why do you think react content is so popular?
@handlerone5172 And what you are talking about, is not what me or that other person was talking about. I read what you wrote. You're not going to write a comment, and then do the "not what I mean" game. You typed what you meant.
@handlerone5172 I'm speaking clear English. You are saying that these relationships are dangerous. Outside of the very very few cases that aren't sexual, what do you mean dangerous? You're splitting hairs and arguing for the sake of arguing. You are trying to gaslight me, by telling me that I'm not making any sense. You started a rant about how dangerous parasocial relationships were, and directed it at multiple people. My entire point, was that you can respect and sometimes even admire a person, without wanting to bang them. I'm sorry that prospect upsets you sooooo much, that you are now jumping my shit. Swing and a miss. That's 3 strikes bud, you're out.
McDonald's isn't inherently bad for you, but eating 12 Big Macs and 4 liters of soda a day is. The same applies to ANY relationship, you can become more attach or involved than is healthy.
An overlooked buff vtubers have is that their avatars can act as a sort of shield to protect their identities. Makes it much less likely to spot or stalk them out in the wild if you don't know what they even look like. Assuming they even go outside in the first place. :3
The thing that asmon said about people thinking that they know more about you than YOU is something I faced a good bit in real life and I ain't no streamer. That's shit gets on my nerves because it's usually people who literally don't know you that well at ALL.
At 16:00 that shit hit me hard. Because in a weird, total eclipse kind of moment, it came to me to realize what a fast food comodity all of these streamer people are. Sure, at quote on quote real jobs, bricks always need to be moved, and Jim the brick mover will always be needed. But as the wind of change blow and the fates spin their spools of thread, the fleeting e girl and flavor of the month influencer are want to be forgotten in the sands of time. As someone with a well defined reliable career before me, I cannot imagine the anxiety, the sheer fear, of knowning that one bad tweet, one rough stream, one choice to switch to a new game, is the difference between making rent and being forced to get a job at 7-11. You say a few things that are a little too edgy? Banned from twitch. You as a human being are so replaceable in the market place of content that you might as well not exist. It is a war for attention and you have to be on your a game 24 7 or you are as dead as the pop ideals of 2005. A relic of antiquity in just 5 months. What a terrible demonic existance to contend with.
Yep, the pseudo gig economy of content creation is a completely new beast of our contemporary times It’s a tough situation where unless you’re able to intelligently divest your finances & career (Amouranth actually being a good example of) or secured a bag big enough you can live relatively comfortably to retirement (which, let’s be frank, the current economy is geared in a boom-bust cycle for endless growth, making any non-basic commodity investment & asset quite volatile, including saved currency), you’re going to be in that constant fear of losing your income with little decent career alternative It actually makes me a lot more concerned with CCs career health, not because I’m parasocial per se, but I sympathize with people’s general economic wellbeing. Definitely a strange conundrum to face and consider, regardless of where your personal career/industry is (like, imagine, these CCs who we take as “free” advertisements are now largely dependent on us as a collective audience to sustain their income. It’s honestly bizarre and somewhat uncanny/uneasy, for lack of a better word) This is coming from me, who’s a part of the broader film & entertainment industry, and although we share the nature of a “privileged career” as these CCs (in the sense that it’s not necessarily an essential industry to people’s needs per se, more of an additional extra. Everyone may need a plumber, engineer, etc. at some point in their life directly or indirectly, but less so for entertainers), but at least most other entertainment industry like mine have a pretty clear business & career convention & trajectory, including contingency plans Meanwhile you can’t really say the same for CCs
I'm a trained social scientist with a fancy three letter degree: I'm immune to "parasocial" 29:00 this bit about the discrepancy between all the myriad sub-sub-sub cultures of the Internet is poignant and compelling. The revolutionary period we are living through is very probably larger in its grand scale and significance than any previous revolutionary era in human communication and social interaction, whether that be the invention and widespread use of the printing press, or the invention of popular literature or of the first alphabets. It is understandable and inherent that a "lot of weird shit" arises in such revolutionary times.
I can see how caring too much can be an issue, but you can also care normally. Like I got sad when Tecnoblade passed even if I didnt know him, barely even watched his video/streams. Still got sad. I know I can care for the people I like watching content from without it affecting my actual life.
She did make a point that caring for online personalities can be good or even helpful for people, she’s more so talking about Stalkers, Tier 3 twitch subs who throw thousands of dollars each month at someone who will never acknowledge them, and those who act like they actually know the VTuber or Streamer as a friend and act really weird online towards them
One of the worst parts about this is that certain streamers (specifically, Vtubers) use an idealized version of themselves (or some idealized version of what they'd like to present to viewers) with revealing, busty, sexualized avatars which in turn makes the vulnerable parasocial viewers more parasocial, because they are looking at an ideal, sexualized version of a non-human character on screen and not the real thing - the person behind the avatar. Not to say it's the Vtuber's fault - they can do what they like, and they are not entirely responsible for what viewers think and do (and on top of that, some viewers will sexualize even the real person behind the avatar, so it's a losing game). But it does beg the question; if you don't want to have such strong parasocial relationships with your viewers, then why expose yourself - your online self - to other people like that? It's a bit of a double-edged sword IMO.
The streamer is not at all responsible here, not "not entirely". Presenting yourself in a positive light does not make you responsible for people detaching themselves from reality and overinvesting emotion into a person they don't even know. That their responsibility, vulnerable or not. Everyone pretends to be better then they are, everywhere, all the time, not limited to online. It's just easier to project your fantasies onto a cute girl template over a real person, that's pretty much it. Like you're not infatuated with that person you don't actually know, but with your idealised image of a partner that you put on a template it works with.
Safe to say stuff like egirls, anime gamer girls, etc defo won't be going away anytime soon just because I feel like it's all tied to gaming in of itself. Our society is expanding with technology and new games and just digital content in general, that this stuff will always be a thing because it indeed is meta. Generates income for obvious reasons and just in-general fits the theme that is what our society has become.
The funny thing about asmon saying all the girls are men is that in the top like 200 vtubers, there's ironically more women using boy models than men using girl models
i've been watching asmon since i found him for 2 months and got through most of his 2022 videos. yes it's unhealthy to just watch only asmon everyday and i don't care. he's entertaining and i'm going to binge his content like a netflix film because it's FREE.
It's ok to watch and enjoy a streamer on a daily/regular basis, it's another thing when you make your whole life about them. It's not a personal relationship, it's entertainment. Don't spend beyond your means on them, especially on bigger streamers who have more than enough money to live off on for the rest of their lives. It's all fun and games until they do something to break your heart or rub you off the wrong way. Then again, there are fans who are too far gone into their oshi, those streamers KNOW they'll never go anywhere.
One of my students recently asked me about this, they wanted some advice on screen time management and how they are addicted to youtube. I talked some bs and ran away in shame
I do think it's normal to watch the same people everyday. in fact I think it goes back thousands of years. People historically would see the same group of people everyday for their entire life. And watching the same streamer everyday isn't new either, but it used to be called TV. How many people watched Jay Leno everyday, or Steven Colbert, or Friends, or Seinfeld every day.
5:20 Because people tend to act consistently, and deviation from that from a narrative standpoint comes off as poor writing forcing and author to make a character irrational because a rational response isn't what they need at that moment to propel their plotlines, not because people think the character is a real person that did something to personally offend them.
Yup. That's why I find streamers particularly vtubers who "sell" the bf/gf experience hyprocritical whenever they call out their fanbase(simps) for being parasocial. If that is the case, then why are you trying to have an "intimate relationship" with your viewers in your streams?... Oh yeah, it makes you money. 🤣
I think its funny how everyone overestimates the VTuber meta. *NOPE* - it won't dominate. People will adapt to it and then it will be a new norm but it will NOT dominate. 😎 There are a few "VTubers" I watch yeah, but I watch them for THEM just how I watch non-VTubers *FOR THEM.* When I browse Twitch sometimes and see the avatars & names, I know that channel is a VTuber and guess what... I am not clicking in on it. Cause I couldn't give a damn just as usual. 😏👌
A really interesting video. I never knew about the Parasocial thing. I just found VTubers weird, had a lot of negative thoughts, but this video helped me understanding it better. Also Lucy Pyre is quite the good meme creator, really refreshing humor, too.
23:00 The problem with the story you just told is that these viewers were people that were play the game with you. How often do you remember someone who just chats or just comments in your twitch stream not in the game
The whole reason movies and television have all these massive groups of writers is to get you to relate and sympathize with the character on screen. This is the same thing that chip companies do with the blend of flavors down to the crunch of the chip. Its all calculated to make you have a parasocial relationship with this character so they get more viewers and you have an investment of emotions.
I treat streaming like it's a normal routine for a TV Show. I'm not emotionally attached the streamers but, I watch their streams regularly and interact with them. I don't think of them as like my best friend or anything because I barely know them.
Sometimes there's not a single thing in reality that can help someone and by chance a streamer or some media e.g. tv series comes up and hits you in the gut. With nothing else to latch on to, that someone latches on to the celebrity or the streamer or parasocial subject. Some use that parasocial relationship to start a foundation for healing. Others go the opposite way. It's pretty much a duality. And for those that don't have anything or anyone to confide to in reality, it's really tough to push oneself forward.
parasocialism has never been a bad thing, but the term got wiredcrossed, like how people call themselves antisocial, not understanding what actual antisocial behavior is, what people call parasocialism is more akin to mental illnes related to obsession, hololive is the perfect example of how to create a community while keeping a healthy enviroment for the vtubers.
Well, Danaerys's story accelerated too much towards the end, just like everything else in the TV version. But that story line was foreshadowed heavily from the very beginning. I've never been sure how so many people missed such a core part of the entire plot up until then.
I was a big VTuber simp, had a deep ass parasocial relationship with one, spent quite a lot of money, and I can't put into words how fcking glad I am that I got out of that shitty hell hole, all tks to a big reality slap. Definitely a dark page in my life's history book, and a good life lesson at that, God bless.
I knew one before she became a vtuber, helped her in good faith to become one, and the moment she did our relationship went from "we would be dating if we knew eachother irl" to parasocial, weeks and eventually months on end with no contact, shit like that. That was a fun year
Parasocial Relationships in streaming spaces can be interesting to navigate as a channel grows. There's been a few streamers that I followed from a relatively small viewership size, and as a regular viewer that was highly interactive, I was invited to join in on gameplay. But as the channels grew and headcounts of the audiences increased, it seemed like my "voice" got lost in the walls of text on busy days/nights. And then, literally ALL of the streamers tried to make the jump to variety streaming and lost the majority of their viewership, and recently started migrating to kick. Smaller streamers seem more than happy to make friends with regularly present and interactive viewers. I've seen quite a few even form a tight-knit group of friends with regular audience members that have held up for years now, still getting together and posting in discord. The streamer friend's discord groups have lasted longer than most of my wow guilds over the years tbh.
Parasocialism, like much of psychology, exists on a spectrum. It's not a simple binary of either "parasocial" or "not parasocial". If the meaning of parasocial, as the internet community has collectively defined it, rests on feeling that you have a stronger connection of knowledge and shared experience with someone than you actually do, ALL relationships are at least slightly parasocial because of the sheer impossibility of ever completely knowing another person. You might feel like you know everything about your best friend, but that's actually an exaggeration, and thus it could be argued that even that relationship is on the "parasocial" spectrum, also. (Generally, you can't even know everything about yourself, let alone another person. It's actually a good thing; if you truly knew everything about yourself, you would lose all capacity to ever surprise yourself, and I think that would make life pretty boring). Whenever we interact with a person, we aren't actually interacting with the person, in themselves, but rather with our image, our projected conception, of them. There are really extreme examples that illustrate this point, like a couple who've been married for 20 years but, unbeknownst to the wife, the husband secretly has a whole other family and another life on the side. The whole time, the wife doesn't actually know the husband, she just thinks she does, and the thing that she's interacting with isn't the husband, himself, bur rather the carefully crafted and maintained illusion of himself that he has created for her. But even in less extreme cases, the same principle applies. You attend high school with your classmates for 4 years, but how well can you claim to really know most of them? They clearly aren't strangers. You'd have no trouble picking their faces out of a police lineup, and you're probably broadly aware of many of their biographies and backgrounds. You're probably familiar with a lot of their likes and dislikes. But unless you were specifically closer friends with an individual, could you really say that you knew what they were all about? Could you predict, with high confidence, how they might react in any hypothetical situation, or would a lot of it boil down to blind guessing because of the big gaps in your knowledge? By this reckoning, if you eat lunch at their table and call them "friends" in school, without actually being super close to them, this is a partly parasocial relationship. All relationships can be said to be made of a mix of parasocial and non-parasocial characteristics, but because of our overestimation of our own knowledge of others, we never know people as well as we think we do, so the shadow of parasocialism can never be completely shaken off, even in the closest of relationships. And it's not a bad thing; it simply means that even our closest friends will never lose their ability to surprise us.
Parasocial relations , for a streamer,vtuber,youtuber and any kind of content creator in general , its not a bad thing , its just , an occupational hazard and not even the worst kind , for the consumer of the content , its just a simple side effect that can go from bad to worse depending on the individual's level of control , that's really all there is to it , at least as far as i've seen.
What a wise Vtuber bruh! She tackled this topic greatly. Parasocialism is not a bad thing. It's a tool all humans have. Like all tools you have, they can be helpful or harmful depending on how you use them. Use it wisely. Side Note: If you have an online friend you have never met before, this is technically a parasocial relationship so Good Luck trying to avoid that.
Everything in moderation. I believe its perfectly fine to feel a connection or relate to a streamer, after all even if they are using a persona they are a real person too. Where this goes awry is when people believe they know the streamer/ content creator and think they are their friend despite never having actually talked or hung out with this person. Especially when it gets to level of unhealthy obsession.
parasocial relationships arent bad the issue is when people who already cant behave in a way that allows for normal relationships with people they actually know have them
So, regarding screenshotting comments; personally when I screenshot something (I tend to screenshot paragraphs or sentences in novels I read that I find entertaining for example). I'd recommend making a folder for it if you intend to go back to them later. Also, just a bit confused over the Lost Ark game category for this video, curious if that's a mistake or an actual reason? Keep up the great videos Asmon. Can't recall how I found you but I am glad for who'ever did a collab and / or talked about you in their stream / video. Maybe Teccy actually. Not sure though. Anyways I've enjoyed the few videos I've watched so keep it up.
Thank you asmon-chan for watching this video about parasocial relationships and talking about your own parasocial relationships to help people who you share parasocial relationships with realize that parasocial relationships aren’t that weird and fueling my desires for my parasocial relationships to defend parasocial relationships.
My current best friends, I met more than a decade ago when one of them was streaming Dark Souls 1 pvp. Of course they weren't doing it for money but for fun. Back then was also different times, nowadays everyone is just hustling. If you've got experienced eyes you can usually tell who is just a guy vibing and who is in it for the money. I would definitely not try this if a streamer has a lot of viewers though no matter what era it would be, then it's real parasocial hours.
5:20 yes, that is the main argument about her going mad. ^^ You should know anyone having a problem with JUST her going mad is just following the crowd without knowing why.
I never understood the logic that "if you're a vtuber, you must be ugly"? There have been many, many face reveals for vtubers, and they've literally all been attractive. Not only that, but I think people forget how scary it is to put your face out there online. Once people know what you look like, they can find you and hurt you. It's a lot harder to do that if they don't know your real name or what you look like.
The reason people attribute it to Vtubers so much is because a lot of them pander to parasocial viewers. While others have parasocial viewers it's just way more prevalent for Vtubers. It is also a completely different thing to attribute characteristics to someone like daenerys(a movie character we view from 3rd person and get to understand) and to do so for real people for which we don't get god view for to understand their lives and thoughts.
@@Mochachocakon This. Like I hear about crazy shit like this. People just generalize and attribute it to most Vtubers. Not to say there aren't good ones, like the Lucy Pyre in the vid seems fine. But I hear a lot about bad ones and there are a lot of them.
27:39 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO no no dont watch that guy, depressed nousagi he was sellin vtuber´s doxxed info to his viewers then when he admitted it and "apologized" he just started making the same topic vids on an alt account, no remorse
Streaming to focus on something is so true for me. Back when I used to draw, if I wanted to focus on one piece and notnget distracted I would livestream. Even if there were 0 watchers I could work on something for like 13 hours with no breaks. Healthy? Obviously not, but it worked to help me focus.
I would just like to stress that identification is not the same as experiencing a parasocial relation. Meaning that parasocial relationships do very much imply an unhealthy trait. This is me coming back on Lucy's statement that "Sometimes being parasocial is a good thing.". No, you're confusing the sensation of identification. For that same reason her Game of Thrones example featuring Daenerys was a wrongful use. I'm not arguing that nobody had a parasocial relationship as the underlying reason for their hate and despise for the turn of events with character. What I am saying is that humans function on narrative. We praise and tell selective stories and tales, the ones we fundamentally pertain to be something 'good', because we identify with certain characters and choose to animate ourselves to the best of their image. That's a healthy and deeply psychological and biological human function. For that same reason you are not parasocial because a song makes you cry, but instead, you are harmonizing on such a deep level that you're a perfectly in tuned to receive the emotion that is being conveyed and you cherish and celebrate that as a consequence.
The only part of parasociality that concerns me is how people act to get attention from their favorite steamer. I couldn't watch someone like Lucy or Nyanners for example, both their sense of humor and voice are too much my type. These concepts are nothing new to MMO players, it would be more weird to have zero emotional responses around people you've never met for weeks or years at a time, but nice seeing it all verbalized.
@@thiswebsitesucksTBH it's not bad by definition, it's having an emotional relationship to someone you don't known irl an they don't know you. Or a emotional connection to a fictional character. Or a fan to a pop star. It's not by definition a negative. It's just an emotional connection to a character or person. You'll have to frame it as a parasocial creep if you want it to be negative
1:47 into the video he paused it at the perfect moment lol. The pic aligns perfectly with the face of someone who knows a dark secret that benefits them at the expense of others.
2:03 she says simps weren’t real before twitch ppl, yet tooshort and other street pimps have been rapping about simps since the 80’s which means it’s way older then that. I’m convinced nothings new, philosophy is the same, humans are the same, addiction to entertainments the same…. I dunno
I've been thinking about this particular question for a long time now, and my conclusion is that the use of the term parasocial as marking a state of pathological exception no longer holds in today's media environment. The term was coined in the heyday of broadcast media like television and radio, where we still have these same kinds of habitual viewing/listening practices, but there is a much smaller pool of celebrity personalities and a much weaker form of engagement. In the current environment of online video and livestreaming, "parasocial" in the sense of forming long-form emotional attachments to screen personalities is our default, and if it is our default it can't also really be "para." Obviously the bad behavior that we want to condemn still exists, it's just not the presence of the screen that defines it as pathology anymore.
It's lovely when i see or i do get involved in a parasocial relationship, i don't think is wrong personally , is nice is like feeling home with friends at a warm fire talking about things enjoying the live talking with the streamer feel like he's part of everything. I know other people would go way ahead than this and i think it's a mental issue. I'm that kinda guy who loves having people around but feels bad when disturbing em in any way or tries not to disturb em in any way. Because there's 2 categories of people, people with who you want to be around, and people who want to be around you, once in a million is a 3th category in the middle. SO, i'm fine with it
i get fatherly feelings with my raid groups and get just as disappointed when i see them not being the best they could be... i feel like as long as im staying self aware about this its fine but man... its rly not :)
As a vtuber myself, I’m kinda scared of the stuff she mentioned in this. And yes, I do think there’s more vtuber girls than real girls streaming nowadays, and even more are on the way 😅
Holy shit man, the cartoon character thing, I came to the same realization recently. Being myself is just too difficult, humans are complex, change all the time. It's way easier to have a pre-made persona, so that I don't have to second guess everything I do and just enjoy and entertain.
Asmon: "I actually read a lot of comments" Well... here's to hoping you read this one. You make my late night shifts / insomnia a lot more tolerable with your vids. Thanks a bunch
TH-cam is more of a side quest, material is just clips from streams, easy money for low work. Nothing wrong in that, i enjoy watching these more condensed areas of his streams from youtube more... Point is, he does actually interact and read comments on twitch, and not just "omg thanks for donation", but actually has conversation with them and takes in note what they say Ive only been following since 2$ steak, so i dont rly know how this works... but i doubt he edits and posts these youtube clips, he has like 5 channels with different types of clips, wow stuff, reaction stuff, some more random vlog type stuff
I like to occasionally watch first time reactions to stuff I like because it's fun to introduce people to cool stuff and things have been pretty slow irl
I'm personally entertaining the idea of a vtuber or pngtuber avatar because I want to remain faceless. The less people know about me, the less I have to worry about harassment IRL. There's also a detachment from an avatar, so as a female creator, if I'm sexualized in any way, it isn't actually me. I don't have to worry about being objectified - "Omg you're so pretty!" or "Oh man, why that haircut? I don't like it on you." It's significantly less personal for somebody to comment on something that isn't real.
For me, I feel like I watch content how I used to watch TV. I don't think I know the producers or the characters, I just enjoy the content or not. It's not like I watch a specific youtuber, person or group of people. That may be why I don't usually watch series or streams, it feels weird for me, spending time watching the "same" thing every day/week/time period. But I understand the appeal or why people like parasocial relationships, on the surface level it sounds nice even. Interesting topic either way
My only argument for the whole there will be more anime girls then real girls is the fact alot of girls have tried being vtubers but much like onlyfans not everyone get popular enough, there's also vtweeters they disappear really easily just for saying something stupid, yeah there's going to be alot but the popular and have lasted the longest are usually the ones who either actually have talent and can make good content (like ironmouse and others), then the ones behind them only survive of of coomers
5:28 Not quite the same. A character in media is not someone you _can_ interact with; you can only ever _observe_ them, b/c they don't really _exist_ in reality. Being upset when a _real person_ (even if they're hiding behind an anime avatar and a fake persona) doesn't interact with you is quite _literally_ the definition of "parasocial." Those two are _not_ the same. I don't know about you, but aside from the odd livestream, I assume the only people who ever read my comments are other commenters, not the poster of the vid themselves. I know _I_ sure wouldn't have the time or mental energy to go through all my comments (if I had this many), so I kinda figure most of them don't, either.
The streamer being parasocial is extremely true, I used to do art streams very often on picarto with friends. Me and the boys would recognize when people stop showing up, leave our communities, etc. These are people who we would shoot the shit with, and it kinda sucks when they disappear.
An online friend, that I converse with almost everyday (moreso than my actual real-life friends), thinks that he is friends with many popular World of Warcraft streamers, including Asmon. Also he is the main reason I have started watching Asmon recently. But I don't truly believe he actually is known enough by any of these people. There's a difference between Online Friends, and Streamers you watch. You might be able to get into a streamers World of Warcraft raid, while he/she is streaming. But it's a different thing to get onto 7 Days to Die with your online friend, when neither of you are streaming, just to play together for about 8-10 hours.
As long as you don't start to delude yourself into thinking that you're anything more than just another faceless viewer to the streamer you're good.
I’m different though
@@sdraulitolito44 me too
@@sdraulitolito44 ikr, she always looks at her 2nd monitor and looks at my name and smiles
I can fix him. (LOL)
not me. I'm a speshul boi
33:30 What people don't get is, if the raid goes badly it's still a good stream. It's like how critics say they enjoy bad content just as much as good because either way they have something interesting to talk about. That people are watching your stream and sharing an intense experience with you, is way more important than whether the experience is good or not.
Basically every PaymoneyWubby stream.
Yea, I think people who hate hate watch stuff enjoy hate watching it cause it give them a purpose..... To hate watch someone and talk with others who also hate watch that person and give them a community. While in other streams if something bad happens it's good content cause then it's not the same ol' content and they can clip it and share it to there fave reddit for karma. And the reason streamers are parasocial just like viewers are cause streamers are just viewer's who stream. They are human like you and me. 🤠 🤠 🥸
I just realized why being a VTuber is so popular nowadays. You don't need to look good on camera, any negative critisism is directed to your character/avatar so you can be yourself without fear. People can build a connection with you without it being actually you, and they can't stalk you because what they like doesn't really exist. Totally safe, simple genius
The "be yourself without fear" part is the sole reason I've occasionally felt some draw toward it myself. Then I remember that literally nobody is going to watch or listen to me if I am myself.
Only way they can stalk u depends on how much history b4 u became a vtuber is online. (or if u keep a 2ndary account of ur irl)
I'm mixed on it, because it does afford some kind of safety to streamers, but also doesn't hold them accountable when they do unethical and immoral things. I'm sure you could think of at least a few scenarios. Another thing I don't care for is that many of the vtubers are using sexually provocative avatars and it manipulates viewers. I also have an issue when they are using avatars that make them look very young and it's sexually provocative.
I don't think there's not just boundaries for the para-social viewers, but also the vtubers, and I'm seeing them cross it often with no accountability and their mods just ban people criticizing, and it seems that no one cares to criticize vtubers. I don't think it's worth my time personally to watch streamers in general that are just fake, they just make up whole situations for content. If I wanted to see people who are fake I would just talk to more people in real life. I'm actually very social irl, but I prefer to get my news through the internet then these 24/7 "news" channels. I also enjoy the comedy.
That's what I like about Asmon, he doesn't wear sexually provocative clothes, he's real even when he's an idiot, and he has no need to hide behind an avatar, so he's personally accountable for what he says and does. I also like that asmon responds to criticism, and doesn't ban genuine critics.
@@Arbaaltheundefeated unless you are complete trash that's hard to imagine. But it can also be a message of what works and doesn't work. Sometimes we have to deliberately change ourselves, grow some. Still likely find a niche audience and sometimes that's okay too
@Gamerad360 I bet you complain about pixels on Twitter...
Asmon is a good reactor. He's good at it and knows how to react even with an awkward and unruly hairline. No doubt he's good at reacting with a good hairline. His takes and verbiage are on point. I bet he is one of the few popular twitch streamers with good reacting form. Imagine Ludwig, xQc, Hassan or Destiny reacting with such a hairline. They'd all be awkward and goofy whereas Asmon actually knows how.
He put most of his stats into intelligence and charisma without as many into beauty
was the harline really the main thing you had to focus on? 💀
This feels like an AI generated comment
@@JkennGG Did you not watch the video? They're making a pun/joke
@@Kagedamage Did you watch the whole video? XD
TLDR, doing things is ok, doing things too much is not.
Apply this rule to everything in life and you are golden.
It's not just internet - look at things like the local TV weatherman. People see him every day and feel like they know him. When they see him in person at the mall or some event, it's like he's their uncle or something, but of course he has never even see these people. The internet has extended that to regular folks and even larger reach than local TV celebrities.
The real secret about VTUBERS is not that they are men, but 30 - mid 30 yo women role-playing as 18 yo (if not younger)
At least not the VTuber company employed ones. The companies care a lot about public image and if word got out that one of the VTubers were 30, they would lose a ton of fans. But the individual VTubers might as well be 30, yeah.
Yeah and thats cool, right? Like, if I was a mid 30s woman I would love to have an option to just make myself more beautiful without surgery or anything like that.
@@laboriouss no, it’s pathetic.
@@Omnis.satanica.potestas_omnis several are in the thirties just from the stuff they talk about.
Vtuber companies aren't these idol agencies that need to employ talents from 16 to 20-something, one of the huge appeals to become a virtual streamer/singer is the fact that IRL age stops being relevant.
@@elixxon Until you search them up irl, which is surprisingly common among a number of people including me
For me, living with a life long depression, sleep depravation and spectrum diagnoses, there are a lot of content creators i enjoy following, because i am not judged by how messed up my life is. I know it's not " friendship " as irl, and that line is clear for me... but sort of accepted in an open and welcoming community, while fully knowing i am a viewer. I rarely respond, i use twitch every third ice age unless it's a Thursday.. and i don' t stream myself.
Nontheless, the truth however is, that many CC's are a big part of me still being alive, and i doubt i can never express my gratitude for this or repay that. I can only keep watching and supporting in what ways i can, and sending my warmest wishes for CC's like Asmon etc to have years and years ahead with more content and shared experiences.
Thank's all for being there in hard times, even tho you may not have known it.
Take care folks.
You too take care!
Mhmm
Can relate to this, hope you are doing well. 👍🏻
same here
This is totally correct human social function to feel an emotional connection to these streamers. They only call it parasocial when you ask something of them, not when theyre spilling their personal life publicly for support or taking your "donations"
Some of the earliest examples of parasocial relationships I can think of would be with newscasters. Newscasters are some of the most stalked people on the planet. When you think about it, they are essentially react streamers with a very strict schedule.
This reminds me of a time when I was a cashier and the lady from my area's health works segment of the news came through my lane. At first I didnt recognize her, but felt she was familiar.. and she enjoyed that I treated her like a regular person--i could see just how uncomfortable she was when my boss came up to her and was like OMG ITS YOU, OH I LOVE YOUR SEGMENT..
I've had other "celebrities" I've had the pleasure of serving, and they all appreciate being treated like a "nobody".
I watch TH-cam in the same way people listen to podcasts tbh. I like longer form videos on topics I like, but I also like the structure and focus videos have as opposed to the loose, casual conversation of podcasts. I probably treat discord almost like a podcast that I can contribute to when I feel like it. Sometimes I'm leading the conversation, sometimes I'm watching my friends stream and listening to them talk about whatever game they're playing
Parasocial stuff is fine to a degree, but you need someone around you irl to be able to pull you back a bit if you can't do it yourself when depression, disaster, or tragedy strikes and that link is all you have.
It can suck to have no one, and a streamer can make that pain go away for a bit, but eventually it has to be balanced with something in real life, or with friends you are around either irl or discord, just to blunt the effects of your mind warping.
Yeah, I think that true. A degree of parasolcialism is totally fine, as long as you have actual life friends that you are very close to. But of the parasocial relationship is the only/The closest one you have its really unhealthy and bad for you.
@@EcnalKcin What you describe is extreme parasocialism. What she means is that its fine to feel some sort of a emotional connection to s streamer. Of course, if this is the only connection you have or starts to be a very strong connection its very unhealthy for you. But as long as it stays within reason its fine, even normal. Thats what she said and I personally think its a very important and good point to make.
An excess of anything is bad.
@@dendrien wait am I tripin why are your " dots instead bro
@@EcnalKcin No she does absolutely understand it... Because while you would not call them a friend, you will form an emotional connection to them (Like you would with a friend). We all feel some form of connection to our favourite contend creators and thats normal and fine (And per design) as long as that connection stays within reason, as long as this connection doesn't grow to personal or that connection deosn't become our strongest/only connection. This is what she meant and in that sense she understood it extremely well.
I don't necessarily think having a parasocial relationship with content creators you like is a bad thing, but there are definitely people who can take things way too far and just be overbearing or creepy. I think caring about someone who makes content you genuinely enjoy and it being a mood lifter or the highlight of your day that day or something like that isn't unreasonable. But to sit there and DM the anime girl Vtuber that they should date you for x, y, and z is too much.
@@handlerone5172 Meanwhile all titty streamers:....
My friend being parasocial ain't bad, it doesn't mean ''pretend bf/gf'', everything is fucking parasocial nowadays, why do you think react content is so popular?
@@handlerone5172 literally missed the whole point of the video but sure man 😅
@@handlerone5172 Swing and a miss bubba. You can respect someone without wanting to bang them.
@handlerone5172 And what you are talking about, is not what me or that other person was talking about. I read what you wrote. You're not going to write a comment, and then do the "not what I mean" game. You typed what you meant.
@handlerone5172 I'm speaking clear English. You are saying that these relationships are dangerous. Outside of the very very few cases that aren't sexual, what do you mean dangerous? You're splitting hairs and arguing for the sake of arguing. You are trying to gaslight me, by telling me that I'm not making any sense. You started a rant about how dangerous parasocial relationships were, and directed it at multiple people. My entire point, was that you can respect and sometimes even admire a person, without wanting to bang them. I'm sorry that prospect upsets you sooooo much, that you are now jumping my shit. Swing and a miss. That's 3 strikes bud, you're out.
McDonald's isn't inherently bad for you, but eating 12 Big Macs and 4 liters of soda a day is. The same applies to ANY relationship, you can become more attach or involved than is healthy.
An overlooked buff vtubers have is that their avatars can act as a sort of shield to protect their identities. Makes it much less likely to spot or stalk them out in the wild if you don't know what they even look like. Assuming they even go outside in the first place. :3
The thing that asmon said about people thinking that they know more about you than YOU is something I faced a good bit in real life and I ain't no streamer. That's shit gets on my nerves because it's usually people who literally don't know you that well at ALL.
At 16:00 that shit hit me hard. Because in a weird, total eclipse kind of moment, it came to me to realize what a fast food comodity all of these streamer people are. Sure, at quote on quote real jobs, bricks always need to be moved, and Jim the brick mover will always be needed. But as the wind of change blow and the fates spin their spools of thread, the fleeting e girl and flavor of the month influencer are want to be forgotten in the sands of time. As someone with a well defined reliable career before me, I cannot imagine the anxiety, the sheer fear, of knowning that one bad tweet, one rough stream, one choice to switch to a new game, is the difference between making rent and being forced to get a job at 7-11. You say a few things that are a little too edgy? Banned from twitch. You as a human being are so replaceable in the market place of content that you might as well not exist. It is a war for attention and you have to be on your a game 24 7 or you are as dead as the pop ideals of 2005. A relic of antiquity in just 5 months. What a terrible demonic existance to contend with.
and soon enough A.I. will ultimately just take the job away.
welcome to the information age
Yep, the pseudo gig economy of content creation is a completely new beast of our contemporary times
It’s a tough situation where unless you’re able to intelligently divest your finances & career (Amouranth actually being a good example of) or secured a bag big enough you can live relatively comfortably to retirement (which, let’s be frank, the current economy is geared in a boom-bust cycle for endless growth, making any non-basic commodity investment & asset quite volatile, including saved currency), you’re going to be in that constant fear of losing your income with little decent career alternative
It actually makes me a lot more concerned with CCs career health, not because I’m parasocial per se, but I sympathize with people’s general economic wellbeing. Definitely a strange conundrum to face and consider, regardless of where your personal career/industry is (like, imagine, these CCs who we take as “free” advertisements are now largely dependent on us as a collective audience to sustain their income. It’s honestly bizarre and somewhat uncanny/uneasy, for lack of a better word)
This is coming from me, who’s a part of the broader film & entertainment industry, and although we share the nature of a “privileged career” as these CCs (in the sense that it’s not necessarily an essential industry to people’s needs per se, more of an additional extra. Everyone may need a plumber, engineer, etc. at some point in their life directly or indirectly, but less so for entertainers), but at least most other entertainment industry like mine have a pretty clear business & career convention & trajectory, including contingency plans
Meanwhile you can’t really say the same for CCs
Whenever I see gimmick based influencers I immediately think of the ending of Fifteen Million Merits. It seems like a hellish existence.
I'm a trained social scientist with a fancy three letter degree: I'm immune to "parasocial"
29:00 this bit about the discrepancy between all the myriad sub-sub-sub cultures of the Internet is poignant and compelling. The revolutionary period we are living through is very probably larger in its grand scale and significance than any previous revolutionary era in human communication and social interaction, whether that be the invention and widespread use of the printing press, or the invention of popular literature or of the first alphabets. It is understandable and inherent that a "lot of weird shit" arises in such revolutionary times.
I can see how caring too much can be an issue, but you can also care normally. Like I got sad when Tecnoblade passed even if I didnt know him, barely even watched his video/streams. Still got sad. I know I can care for the people I like watching content from without it affecting my actual life.
She did make a point that caring for online personalities can be good or even helpful for people, she’s more so talking about Stalkers, Tier 3 twitch subs who throw thousands of dollars each month at someone who will never acknowledge them, and those who act like they actually know the VTuber or Streamer as a friend and act really weird online towards them
Asmon roasting his cringe fans will always be hilarious 😂
11:00 The rewind and subtle head nod is what did it for me. Thanks for being a living legend asmon
One of the worst parts about this is that certain streamers (specifically, Vtubers) use an idealized version of themselves (or some idealized version of what they'd like to present to viewers) with revealing, busty, sexualized avatars which in turn makes the vulnerable parasocial viewers more parasocial, because they are looking at an ideal, sexualized version of a non-human character on screen and not the real thing - the person behind the avatar. Not to say it's the Vtuber's fault - they can do what they like, and they are not entirely responsible for what viewers think and do (and on top of that, some viewers will sexualize even the real person behind the avatar, so it's a losing game). But it does beg the question; if you don't want to have such strong parasocial relationships with your viewers, then why expose yourself - your online self - to other people like that? It's a bit of a double-edged sword IMO.
Dude everyone is putting on a fake persona, its obvious as fuck, they deserve all the "parasocial" they get and then some.
The streamer is not at all responsible here, not "not entirely".
Presenting yourself in a positive light does not make you responsible for people detaching themselves from reality and overinvesting emotion into a person they don't even know. That their responsibility, vulnerable or not. Everyone pretends to be better then they are, everywhere, all the time, not limited to online.
It's just easier to project your fantasies onto a cute girl template over a real person, that's pretty much it.
Like you're not infatuated with that person you don't actually know, but with your idealised image of a partner that you put on a template it works with.
I really think using really obviously fake avatars is much better. Makes the "fake" aspect more clear abd assumed.
Safe to say stuff like egirls, anime gamer girls, etc defo won't be going away anytime soon just because I feel like it's all tied to gaming in of itself. Our society is expanding with technology and new games and just digital content in general, that this stuff will always be a thing because it indeed is meta.
Generates income for obvious reasons and just in-general fits the theme that is what our society has become.
The funny thing about asmon saying all the girls are men is that in the top like 200 vtubers, there's ironically more women using boy models than men using girl models
i've been watching asmon since i found him for 2 months and got through most of his 2022 videos. yes it's unhealthy to just watch only asmon everyday and i don't care. he's entertaining and i'm going to binge his content like a netflix film because it's FREE.
It's ok to watch and enjoy a streamer on a daily/regular basis, it's another thing when you make your whole life about them. It's not a personal relationship, it's entertainment. Don't spend beyond your means on them, especially on bigger streamers who have more than enough money to live off on for the rest of their lives.
It's all fun and games until they do something to break your heart or rub you off the wrong way. Then again, there are fans who are too far gone into their oshi, those streamers KNOW they'll never go anywhere.
One of my students recently asked me about this, they wanted some advice on screen time management and how they are addicted to youtube. I talked some bs and ran away in shame
I do think it's normal to watch the same people everyday. in fact I think it goes back thousands of years. People historically would see the same group of people everyday for their entire life. And watching the same streamer everyday isn't new either, but it used to be called TV. How many people watched Jay Leno everyday, or Steven Colbert, or Friends, or Seinfeld every day.
"If someone shoots me, I'll just ban em."
-Asmon
5:20 Because people tend to act consistently, and deviation from that from a narrative standpoint comes off as poor writing forcing and author to make a character irrational because a rational response isn't what they need at that moment to propel their plotlines, not because people think the character is a real person that did something to personally offend them.
Yup. That's why I find streamers particularly vtubers who "sell" the bf/gf experience hyprocritical whenever they call out their fanbase(simps) for being parasocial. If that is the case, then why are you trying to have an "intimate relationship" with your viewers in your streams?... Oh yeah, it makes you money. 🤣
as a nobody, i can say that asmon is a healthy man
Yups.. sounds legit
I think its funny how everyone overestimates the VTuber meta. *NOPE* - it won't dominate. People will adapt to it and then it will be a new norm but it will NOT dominate. 😎
There are a few "VTubers" I watch yeah, but I watch them for THEM just how I watch non-VTubers *FOR THEM.*
When I browse Twitch sometimes and see the avatars & names, I know that channel is a VTuber and guess what... I am not clicking in on it.
Cause I couldn't give a damn just as usual. 😏👌
You aren't a nobody. Be well.
@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly Your pills, take them bud
@@40kuser39
No worries I'm taking my Ginkobil & Acurmin Plus. 😉
A really interesting video. I never knew about the Parasocial thing. I just found VTubers weird, had a lot of negative thoughts, but this video helped me understanding it better. Also Lucy Pyre is quite the good meme creator, really refreshing humor, too.
23:00 The problem with the story you just told is that these viewers were people that were play the game with you.
How often do you remember someone who just chats or just comments in your twitch stream not in the game
The whole reason movies and television have all these massive groups of writers is to get you to relate and sympathize with the character on screen. This is the same thing that chip companies do with the blend of flavors down to the crunch of the chip. Its all calculated to make you have a parasocial relationship with this character so they get more viewers and you have an investment of emotions.
38:37 Loki: "Shall we test that?"
I like this v tuber, very relatable and nice simple straightforward explanation, really feels nice.
I treat streaming like it's a normal routine for a TV Show. I'm not emotionally attached the streamers but, I watch their streams regularly and interact with them. I don't think of them as like my best friend or anything because I barely know them.
Sometimes there's not a single thing in reality that can help someone and by chance a streamer or some media e.g. tv series comes up and hits you in the gut. With nothing else to latch on to, that someone latches on to the celebrity or the streamer or parasocial subject. Some use that parasocial relationship to start a foundation for healing. Others go the opposite way. It's pretty much a duality. And for those that don't have anything or anyone to confide to in reality, it's really tough to push oneself forward.
parasocialism has never been a bad thing, but the term got wiredcrossed, like how people call themselves antisocial, not understanding what actual antisocial behavior is, what people call parasocialism is more akin to mental illnes related to obsession, hololive is the perfect example of how to create a community while keeping a healthy enviroment for the vtubers.
Well, Danaerys's story accelerated too much towards the end, just like everything else in the TV version. But that story line was foreshadowed heavily from the very beginning. I've never been sure how so many people missed such a core part of the entire plot up until then.
I was a big VTuber simp, had a deep ass parasocial relationship with one, spent quite a lot of money, and I can't put into words how fcking glad I am that I got out of that shitty hell hole, all tks to a big reality slap.
Definitely a dark page in my life's history book, and a good life lesson at that, God bless.
I knew one before she became a vtuber, helped her in good faith to become one, and the moment she did our relationship went from "we would be dating if we knew eachother irl" to parasocial, weeks and eventually months on end with no contact, shit like that. That was a fun year
Parasocial Relationships in streaming spaces can be interesting to navigate as a channel grows. There's been a few streamers that I followed from a relatively small viewership size, and as a regular viewer that was highly interactive, I was invited to join in on gameplay. But as the channels grew and headcounts of the audiences increased, it seemed like my "voice" got lost in the walls of text on busy days/nights. And then, literally ALL of the streamers tried to make the jump to variety streaming and lost the majority of their viewership, and recently started migrating to kick.
Smaller streamers seem more than happy to make friends with regularly present and interactive viewers. I've seen quite a few even form a tight-knit group of friends with regular audience members that have held up for years now, still getting together and posting in discord. The streamer friend's discord groups have lasted longer than most of my wow guilds over the years tbh.
I'm pretty sure most streamers start out of loneliness and boredom than as a business prospect, which is why they're likely to do that.
Parasocialism, like much of psychology, exists on a spectrum. It's not a simple binary of either "parasocial" or "not parasocial".
If the meaning of parasocial, as the internet community has collectively defined it, rests on feeling that you have a stronger connection of knowledge and shared experience with someone than you actually do, ALL relationships are at least slightly parasocial because of the sheer impossibility of ever completely knowing another person. You might feel like you know everything about your best friend, but that's actually an exaggeration, and thus it could be argued that even that relationship is on the "parasocial" spectrum, also. (Generally, you can't even know everything about yourself, let alone another person. It's actually a good thing; if you truly knew everything about yourself, you would lose all capacity to ever surprise yourself, and I think that would make life pretty boring).
Whenever we interact with a person, we aren't actually interacting with the person, in themselves, but rather with our image, our projected conception, of them. There are really extreme examples that illustrate this point, like a couple who've been married for 20 years but, unbeknownst to the wife, the husband secretly has a whole other family and another life on the side. The whole time, the wife doesn't actually know the husband, she just thinks she does, and the thing that she's interacting with isn't the husband, himself, bur rather the carefully crafted and maintained illusion of himself that he has created for her.
But even in less extreme cases, the same principle applies. You attend high school with your classmates for 4 years, but how well can you claim to really know most of them? They clearly aren't strangers. You'd have no trouble picking their faces out of a police lineup, and you're probably broadly aware of many of their biographies and backgrounds. You're probably familiar with a lot of their likes and dislikes. But unless you were specifically closer friends with an individual, could you really say that you knew what they were all about? Could you predict, with high confidence, how they might react in any hypothetical situation, or would a lot of it boil down to blind guessing because of the big gaps in your knowledge? By this reckoning, if you eat lunch at their table and call them "friends" in school, without actually being super close to them, this is a partly parasocial relationship.
All relationships can be said to be made of a mix of parasocial and non-parasocial characteristics, but because of our overestimation of our own knowledge of others, we never know people as well as we think we do, so the shadow of parasocialism can never be completely shaken off, even in the closest of relationships. And it's not a bad thing; it simply means that even our closest friends will never lose their ability to surprise us.
Parasocial relations , for a streamer,vtuber,youtuber and any kind of content creator in general , its not a bad thing , its just , an occupational hazard and not even the worst kind , for the consumer of the content , its just a simple side effect that can go from bad to worse depending on the individual's level of control , that's really all there is to it , at least as far as i've seen.
What a wise Vtuber bruh!
She tackled this topic greatly. Parasocialism is not a bad thing. It's a tool all humans have. Like all tools you have, they can be helpful or harmful depending on how you use them. Use it wisely.
Side Note:
If you have an online friend you have never met before, this is technically a parasocial relationship so Good Luck trying to avoid that.
Everything in moderation. I believe its perfectly fine to feel a connection or relate to a streamer, after all even if they are using a persona they are a real person too. Where this goes awry is when people believe they know the streamer/ content creator and think they are their friend despite never having actually talked or hung out with this person. Especially when it gets to level of unhealthy obsession.
parasocial relationships arent bad the issue is when people who already cant behave in a way that allows for normal relationships with people they actually know have them
So, regarding screenshotting comments; personally when I screenshot something (I tend to screenshot paragraphs or sentences in novels I read that I find entertaining for example). I'd recommend making a folder for it if you intend to go back to them later. Also, just a bit confused over the Lost Ark game category for this video, curious if that's a mistake or an actual reason?
Keep up the great videos Asmon. Can't recall how I found you but I am glad for who'ever did a collab and / or talked about you in their stream / video. Maybe Teccy actually. Not sure though. Anyways I've enjoyed the few videos I've watched so keep it up.
Thank you asmon-chan for watching this video about parasocial relationships and talking about your own parasocial relationships to help people who you share parasocial relationships with realize that parasocial relationships aren’t that weird and fueling my desires for my parasocial relationships to defend parasocial relationships.
... parasocial relationships
Man if you had used just one more word in the 5th line you could've had it line up 4 times!
A little more adjusting and it could be 5, 6 times even!
Nicely done, sir.
@@Newtination they are real relationships.
@@Cecilia-ky3uwOh are they?
now I’m just thinking about the totally necessary need for all twitch streamers to demonstrate wood-cutting form so they can be properly ranked
Ah yes Asmond, 47 minute reaction for a 13 minute video. Love it :D
That's how you know it's a good one
My current best friends, I met more than a decade ago when one of them was streaming Dark Souls 1 pvp. Of course they weren't doing it for money but for fun. Back then was also different times, nowadays everyone is just hustling. If you've got experienced eyes you can usually tell who is just a guy vibing and who is in it for the money. I would definitely not try this if a streamer has a lot of viewers though no matter what era it would be, then it's real parasocial hours.
5:20 yes, that is the main argument about her going mad. ^^ You should know anyone having a problem with JUST her going mad is just following the crowd without knowing why.
I never understood the logic that "if you're a vtuber, you must be ugly"?
There have been many, many face reveals for vtubers, and they've literally all been attractive.
Not only that, but I think people forget how scary it is to put your face out there online.
Once people know what you look like, they can find you and hurt you.
It's a lot harder to do that if they don't know your real name or what you look like.
The reason people attribute it to Vtubers so much is because a lot of them pander to parasocial viewers. While others have parasocial viewers it's just way more prevalent for Vtubers.
It is also a completely different thing to attribute characteristics to someone like daenerys(a movie character we view from 3rd person and get to understand) and to do so for real people for which we don't get god view for to understand their lives and thoughts.
@@Mochachocakon This. Like I hear about crazy shit like this. People just generalize and attribute it to most Vtubers. Not to say there aren't good ones, like the Lucy Pyre in the vid seems fine. But I hear a lot about bad ones and there are a lot of them.
no you’re all just parasocail but you’re to egotistical to work on yourself or admit you have a problem. damn i’m good i should be a psychologist.
Nah.
Here in 2024, to let yall know yall were wrong bois, but their getting there. 5:53
Base video seems to not separate it's topic from empathy, in regard to feeling something when a character dies.
27:39 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO no no
dont watch that guy, depressed nousagi
he was sellin vtuber´s doxxed info to his viewers
then when he admitted it and "apologized" he just started making the same topic vids
on an alt account, no remorse
Streaming to focus on something is so true for me. Back when I used to draw, if I wanted to focus on one piece and notnget distracted I would livestream. Even if there were 0 watchers I could work on something for like 13 hours with no breaks. Healthy? Obviously not, but it worked to help me focus.
Ever cry when your favorite chatacter dies? Well damn, just going for the throat of empathy and story telling.
15:00 straight up Ludwig's 'news' channel.
29:30 why was this the funniest combination of interests ever LMAO
The problem with parasocial with respect to streamers is that communication is 2-way, meaning there's large incentive to exploit.
I would just like to stress that identification is not the same as experiencing a parasocial relation. Meaning that parasocial relationships do very much imply an unhealthy trait. This is me coming back on Lucy's statement that "Sometimes being parasocial is a good thing.". No, you're confusing the sensation of identification. For that same reason her Game of Thrones example featuring Daenerys was a wrongful use. I'm not arguing that nobody had a parasocial relationship as the underlying reason for their hate and despise for the turn of events with character. What I am saying is that humans function on narrative. We praise and tell selective stories and tales, the ones we fundamentally pertain to be something 'good', because we identify with certain characters and choose to animate ourselves to the best of their image. That's a healthy and deeply psychological and biological human function. For that same reason you are not parasocial because a song makes you cry, but instead, you are harmonizing on such a deep level that you're a perfectly in tuned to receive the emotion that is being conveyed and you cherish and celebrate that as a consequence.
the more popular a vtuber gets, the bigger the cup size.
The only part of parasociality that concerns me is how people act to get attention from their favorite steamer. I couldn't watch someone like Lucy or Nyanners for example, both their sense of humor and voice are too much my type. These concepts are nothing new to MMO players, it would be more weird to have zero emotional responses around people you've never met for weeks or years at a time, but nice seeing it all verbalized.
Honestly, same
parasocial = emotionally invested into an media personality/person = most people and a natural effect of human social interactions, the good an bad
no, thats empathy. this thot is chatting so much shit its insane parasocial relationships is something far, FAR worse than that
@@thiswebsitesucksTBH it's not bad by definition, it's having an emotional relationship to someone you don't known irl an they don't know you. Or a emotional connection to a fictional character. Or a fan to a pop star. It's not by definition a negative. It's just an emotional connection to a character or person. You'll have to frame it as a parasocial creep if you want it to be negative
I hadn't seen any trace of v-tubers for like two years until I saw this video, and honestly thought the craze had died out.
The algorithm works.
1:47 into the video he paused it at the perfect moment lol. The pic aligns perfectly with the face of someone who knows a dark secret that benefits them at the expense of others.
2:03 she says simps weren’t real before twitch ppl, yet tooshort and other street pimps have been rapping about simps since the 80’s which means it’s way older then that. I’m convinced nothings new, philosophy is the same, humans are the same, addiction to entertainments the same…. I dunno
Nothing crazy about admiring a mans wood chopping form. An art as old as time itself.
I've been thinking about this particular question for a long time now, and my conclusion is that the use of the term parasocial as marking a state of pathological exception no longer holds in today's media environment. The term was coined in the heyday of broadcast media like television and radio, where we still have these same kinds of habitual viewing/listening practices, but there is a much smaller pool of celebrity personalities and a much weaker form of engagement. In the current environment of online video and livestreaming, "parasocial" in the sense of forming long-form emotional attachments to screen personalities is our default, and if it is our default it can't also really be "para." Obviously the bad behavior that we want to condemn still exists, it's just not the presence of the screen that defines it as pathology anymore.
It's lovely when i see or i do get involved in a parasocial relationship, i don't think is wrong personally , is nice is like feeling home with friends at a warm fire talking about things enjoying the live talking with the streamer feel like he's part of everything. I know other people would go way ahead than this and i think it's a mental issue. I'm that kinda guy who loves having people around but feels bad when disturbing em in any way or tries not to disturb em in any way. Because there's 2 categories of people, people with who you want to be around, and people who want to be around you, once in a million is a 3th category in the middle. SO, i'm fine with it
9:34 This a Dragon Maid character? She got the whole dairy isle in those things.
i get fatherly feelings with my raid groups and get just as disappointed when i see them not being the best they could be... i feel like as long as im staying self aware about this its fine but man... its rly not :)
33:35 Shout out to the person that said “SUMMER ANT” that was gold.
As a vtuber myself, I’m kinda scared of the stuff she mentioned in this. And yes, I do think there’s more vtuber girls than real girls streaming nowadays, and even more are on the way 😅
Holy shit man, the cartoon character thing, I came to the same realization recently. Being myself is just too difficult, humans are complex, change all the time. It's way easier to have a pre-made persona, so that I don't have to second guess everything I do and just enjoy and entertain.
Asmon: "I actually read a lot of comments"
Well... here's to hoping you read this one. You make my late night shifts / insomnia a lot more tolerable with your vids. Thanks a bunch
TH-cam is more of a side quest, material is just clips from streams, easy money for low work. Nothing wrong in that, i enjoy watching these more condensed areas of his streams from youtube more... Point is, he does actually interact and read comments on twitch, and not just "omg thanks for donation", but actually has conversation with them and takes in note what they say
Ive only been following since 2$ steak, so i dont rly know how this works... but i doubt he edits and posts these youtube clips, he has like 5 channels with different types of clips, wow stuff, reaction stuff, some more random vlog type stuff
7:17 Man's brain stops upon thinking of 4Chan
She's deep under-cover for Flat is Justice...
Right?
I like to occasionally watch first time reactions to stuff I like because it's fun to introduce people to cool stuff and things have been pretty slow irl
I'm personally entertaining the idea of a vtuber or pngtuber avatar because I want to remain faceless. The less people know about me, the less I have to worry about harassment IRL. There's also a detachment from an avatar, so as a female creator, if I'm sexualized in any way, it isn't actually me. I don't have to worry about being objectified - "Omg you're so pretty!" or "Oh man, why that haircut? I don't like it on you." It's significantly less personal for somebody to comment on something that isn't real.
I'd love to see a group stream of both Lucy and asmond
Good commentary. You're ability to break things down to fair, lamens terms: thanks homie.
For me, I feel like I watch content how I used to watch TV. I don't think I know the producers or the characters, I just enjoy the content or not. It's not like I watch a specific youtuber, person or group of people. That may be why I don't usually watch series or streams, it feels weird for me, spending time watching the "same" thing every day/week/time period. But I understand the appeal or why people like parasocial relationships, on the surface level it sounds nice even. Interesting topic either way
It’s funny as hell a vtuber saying about anime girls being problematic. Pot meet kettle
I LOVE Lucy videos.
people on the internet are weird af. i think the world is just surprised that this many creeps actually exist.
oh god, if Obsidianant stops talking i will freak. its his voice, soothing AF. i can listen to him for days.
1:04 ... That was a VERY specific reference.. 😂
My only argument for the whole there will be more anime girls then real girls is the fact alot of girls have tried being vtubers but much like onlyfans not everyone get popular enough, there's also vtweeters they disappear really easily just for saying something stupid, yeah there's going to be alot but the popular and have lasted the longest are usually the ones who either actually have talent and can make good content (like ironmouse and others), then the ones behind them only survive of of coomers
5:28 Not quite the same. A character in media is not someone you _can_ interact with; you can only ever _observe_ them, b/c they don't really _exist_ in reality. Being upset when a _real person_ (even if they're hiding behind an anime avatar and a fake persona) doesn't interact with you is quite _literally_ the definition of "parasocial." Those two are _not_ the same.
I don't know about you, but aside from the odd livestream, I assume the only people who ever read my comments are other commenters, not the poster of the vid themselves. I know _I_ sure wouldn't have the time or mental energy to go through all my comments (if I had this many), so I kinda figure most of them don't, either.
I love you reacting to other streamers that are not in your demographic.
The streamer being parasocial is extremely true, I used to do art streams very often on picarto with friends. Me and the boys would recognize when people stop showing up, leave our communities, etc. These are people who we would shoot the shit with, and it kinda sucks when they disappear.
15:15 It struck me hard after I realized who he is referencing to...
6:44 nah she's at least 18 in 2022, I believe, and that "Leave Britney alone" video came out in 2007, so.
im addicted to Asmon react videos. im a parasocial viewer. pepehands
An online friend, that I converse with almost everyday (moreso than my actual real-life friends), thinks that he is friends with many popular World of Warcraft streamers, including Asmon. Also he is the main reason I have started watching Asmon recently. But I don't truly believe he actually is known enough by any of these people.
There's a difference between Online Friends, and Streamers you watch. You might be able to get into a streamers World of Warcraft raid, while he/she is streaming. But it's a different thing to get onto 7 Days to Die with your online friend, when neither of you are streaming, just to play together for about 8-10 hours.
"If life was a video-tame, this would get nerfed!"
I'm totally using this for every circumstance in reality I dislike. :D