@Idyllic Living Machines are taught by humans. Those humans seem to be limited in their exposure. They are not purposely biased against India, it happens naturally due to limited exposure... So the training material that the AI gets would be biased. If hashtags can raise awareness to those humans, it’s a good deal... it may or may not reach... but we can try. Absolutely unabashed - there is no need to feel bashful about mentioning who made what achievements. Artists deserve a treatment similar to sports records in the world (in the sports world great care is taken to maintain achievements). Agreed, music is not as precise as sports, someone’s 100 songs might be more influential than someone else’s 200 songs... but mention all big achievers at least sometimes, right?
Awards, fame and recognition mean nothing to this great soul who was born on this earth for music. Blessed are the people who know and listen to his compositions. And poor are people and Artificial Intelligence databases who are ignorant.
Agree. I just want it known in the world... they don’t do this to sportsmen world records, whoever had whatever record is noted and mentioned and respected... why are they doing it to musicians? So I want it known, just like sportsmen.
Good analysis and yes, really hate the bias ... this reminds me of how the Indian history is being wrongly portrayed in our textbooks. Will definitely share this video!
I have noticed for years that Indian artists are routinely missed in lists of “great” people, and even in lists of facts and numbers! It is beyond ridiculous... For the sake of Indian Film Industry, I hope at least the hashtag goes trending..: #MostProlificFilmComposer #Ilaiyaraaja
Illaiyaraaja has handled and composed songs in a zillion genres unlike the western composers. Most western composers crunch their back in front of a monitor working on different plugins to make music sound the way it sounds. These unfair perceptions of Raaja can be only broken if there is a proper PR and international projects for him!
I got this answer after a series of arguments: I apologize for any confusion. In the context of your question about who is the most prolific composer in India, the term "prolific" typically refers to the sheer volume of work produced. Ilaiyaraaja has composed music for a larger number of films over a longer period, which could be a basis for considering him highly prolific. However, A.R. Rahman is also widely regarded as prolific due to his significant impact, international recognition, and innovative compositions. While his filmography may be relatively smaller in comparison, his work has been influential and transformative in the Indian and global music scenes. In terms of pure volume, Ilaiyaraaja's extensive filmography might lead to considering him more prolific, but A.R. Rahman's artistic contributions and influence also make him a prominent figure in the discussion.
Hi mam, I am a fan of your great work here in breaking down the masterpieces and explaining in simple terms for a layman like me. Quick fact last week's Neeya Naana program was on our Ilayaraja sir and your observation was highlighted by the show host Gopinath. Thanks again for your lovely work, please continue the same 💜
On the lighter side, I take it in a fun optimistic view, It’s very clear even when AI reaches the predicted super human intelligence levels in 50 years , will still lose to the name Ilaiyaraja. Even AI can’t decipher his prolific work such a monumental work ( the only example for - humanly impossible and inhumanly impossible) he is leaving us the treasure , and we as music fans have a huge responsibility to curate and keep highlighting the unimaginable technicalities he surprises with various permutations and combinations of his musical Notes, instrument usage, and all the music related phrases that are talked about all the time.Hail maestro 🙏
I really appreciate that you brought this issue here. ❤ Many of the actual facts about our achievements are not conveyed to the world. Also, I believe that Ilaiyaraaja would have definitely won many Oscars if his songs had been properly sent to the Oscar selection team by following their protocol. Because I know about Ilaiyaraaja, I asked, "Who has composed the most movie music in the world, including all local languages from all countries?" And I got, "The title of the composer with the most movie scores in the world is often attributed to Indian composer Ilaiyaraaja. As of recent counts, Ilaiyaraaja has composed music for over 1,000 films..." By ChatGPT But no one will ask the way I asked.
I have a similar complaint about youtube/Google. On youtube I search for Ilaiyaraaja songs. TH-cam algorithm force feeds me A R Rahman related songs and news
Omg! The TH-cam algorithm hasn’t figured out your interests I guess. I receive feedback request from TH-cam frequently. I requested: (1) ability of content creators to specify what kind of viewers might like this content (2) ability of viewer to specify what kind of content they like... it can take those two inputs, and make a math formula, with weights for that too... apart from its own magic secret formula that no one knows...
Thank you. I did notice a few mentions of the 1400 number... I will make another video about this... but... I looked on Wikipedia, and counted the Wikipedia-published movies that come after the 1000th celebration... it didn’t add up to 1400.... I didn’t want to say a number when I haven’t seen the actual list... The aim in this video is “low end estimate” with proof... I would like to have a complete list of movies- don’t know where to find it unless I have friends in the inner Tamil film circle...
The number according to published movie names from Wikipedia seems closer to 1040... did someone invert the middle two digits? I would loooove to have the complete list...
I have never tried this question on ChatGPT, but I tried it with Google a few years back. Google suggested Illayiraja's name in 3rd place or 4th place I guess. First place on Google was also AR Rahman and that's due to Oscar's win. But, surprisingly the Bollywood composers were shown after A R Rahman, so I am guessing it is also dependent on the film industry with a wider reach. Back then, Bollywood had a wider reach. Now, I am sure the results would show an equal blend of South and North Composers together.
Wow... I have done these searches for so many years now... never once saw Ilaiyaraaja. I still don’t see it. The Wikipedia article on Ilaiyaraaja clearly has the words “reputed to be the world’s most prolific composer” but it is not showing that in the results...
Those who have the mindset of agreeing will understand a truth... that is Gnanadeshikan - Rasaiah - Ilayaraja - Musician - MAESTRO - : Some people who don't like this order - if it is "Daniel Rasaiah" we can say something, let's touch the top of the world; It was only after he called "Ramana Maharishi" in Google interaction that he was resurrected, negative comments about him were deliberately spread - I am the Tamil son created by the Lord...Ilayaraja too... Thank you sister... The world will be introduced to the fact that the crowd hiding Ilayaraja will disappear automatically... (Without trending anything about Ilayaraja.. aa ) HATS OFF TO YOU ...💐🙌🙏🌻🌳💝
Madam - I salute you for bringing out how this genius is ignored due to various different factors mostly because he is somewhat restricted to South India in the body of work I know he has worked in Bollywood and Hollywood that is quite small compared to the body of work in South India.
He deserves a Bharat Ratna... or at least a lifetime Oscar... that will expose more people to his music! But I was very happy when this happened: I got into a taxi in USA, and the driver, an American, knew who Raaja was... even though he watches only Hollywood movies... And the mayor of the city welcomed Raaja sir at the airport...
@@suvaissance - Mam I am very happy to hear this. Which city is this in USA - I am just curious. Raaja Sir is a God to many South Indians across the 5 states - these awards don't matter...
I am actually not surprised! I am an eighties born Telugu guy and was a nineties kid. Ilaiyaraja was before my time, but there are numerous Ilaiyaraja's songs which stuck me when I listen to them the first time. They were SO enticing to me. It didn't happen to me with any music directors who came later(or even before). But this same feelings which take control of me when I listen to raja are not shared by my brother or any of my friends. Numerous times I shared them the songs but they don't feel the same stirring up of their mind. This happens mostly with North Indian friends. Ilayaraja gave songs in Hindi but I don't think Hindi folks consider him as a genius. Most of the today's generation even don't know him, I guess. It's a puzzle to me how could anyone not be shaken by his songs, but I realized it is just that they cannot appreciate the complexity of the songs. I can understand why North Indians might not be interested in him, because south Indian songs are based on Carnatic Melakarta ragas and they cannot get it. With all it's complexities and extreme usage of western instruments, What is special about Raja's songs is that they are VERY SOUTH INDIAN to the core, and that is what other region folks cannot appreciate. You have to be a south Indian to get it.
Very interesting and insightful comment! This is why I say “music is like language” more often than “music has no language”. There is a musical language for music - those who are repeatedly exposed to “mangala veena” during auspicious scenes when someone gets a job offer or when a heroine who always wears pants suddenly wears a saree - like a language, they know the special meaning of that veena sound. A person from Argentina would simply hear toing toing toing… while a Tamil knows the exact meaning of those veena sounds.. all those “soul pulling” sounds come from repeated watching of certain types of instrumental lines over soulful story and scenes…
Yeah, I am not even taking chatGPT too seriously anymore. It is useful for specific things like generating leave letters or conversational text... but for actual research, I like to read proper articles written by humans.
Hamsalekha a veteran music director of Kannada industry, he has made 500+ films with writing lyrics to it. Like Illayaraja sir is denied from being most prolific music composer. Hamsalekha is not mentioned as most lyrics written by composer themselves
Before a month I asked how many flims ilayaraja composed? It said more than 1000 flims. Then I asked list any 100 flims. It said some other album like Alaipauthey, anbe sivam. The AI doesn't know the correct information!
It’s nice to hear the feedback... I notice the Suvai or essence of others, someone else has to tell me what is the essence they perceive in me... same goes for all people... 😃
Nah. You’re right… Not a conspiracy. Biases. Not necessarily deliberate biases either. Unconscious biases. And my frustration of seeing that people seeking this info from other parts of the world won’t get the answer. Given that the Indian film music industry is mega-x times bigger than Hollywood in quantity and genres and mind boggling innovation, these people who write “greatest in the WORLD” lists, must at least be aware of who is in the WORLD… The “music director” terminology, as you have identified, is a great contributing factor to AI agents that operate by crawling through text…
@sance Makes sense though AI chatbots are known to give super wrong responses on many topics. I tried a little experiment on ChatGPT and Gemini and after some back and forth, both bots admitted that their initial answer of Ennio Morricone was incorrect and when I asked the question again, they said it's Ilaiyaraaja. But funny thing is I closed the session and came back to ask the same question, and they went back to Ennio. If a source like Wikipedia acknowledges this fact, then there is a better chance of chatbots answering correctly. Here is what it says "Morricone is widely considered one of the most prolific and greatest film composers of all time.[2][3] " vs "Reputed to be one of the most prolific composers in a career spanning over forty-seven years, he (Raaja) has composed over 7,000 songs and provided film scores for over 1,000 films,[1] ". Neither statement is categorical, I wonder why since this seems to be an objective fact.
Wikipedia article on topic: “Ilaiyaraaja”. Second sentence, literally says the words “prolific composer” with the facts and figures… en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaiyaraaja No use so far… Unless people know him already why would someone go looking for Ilaiyaraaja on Wikipedia… unless gatekeeper softwares and human list makers do something fair to composers from Asia and Africa they remain hidden to info seekers around the world.
But the article prefaces the word prolific with "one of the most" (does it for Ennio Morricone too). Why use that phrase if you definitely know the number? So it seems to be that while there is definitely a bias against non-Western composers, particularly Ilaiyaraaja (as seen in the bewildering response by Gemini below), it could also be the case that there is no agreed upon authoritative source of filmography.@@suvaissance Scope of the response: My initial response focused on composers with a more global reach, which might have led me to overlook Ilaiyaraaja despite his impressive output within Indian cinema.
I think ChatGPT has enhanced it's database recently cause I asked the same question from ChatGPT again. Who's the most prolific music director in the world? I got the below The title of the "most prolific music director in the world" is subjective and can vary depending on how you define "prolific." Some music directors and composers have worked across various film industries or genres, making them highly productive and influential. Here are a few notable figures: 1. Ennio Morricone (Italy) Composed over 500 scores for cinema and television and more than 100 classical works. Known for his work in spaghetti westerns like The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. 2. Ilaiyaraaja (India) An iconic figure in Indian cinema, especially Tamil cinema, with more than 1,000 films scored. His work spans multiple decades, making him a household name in Indian music. 3. John Williams (USA) One of the most recognizable film composers, having scored films like Star Wars, Jaws, Indiana Jones, and Harry Potter. He has over 100 film scores to his name and is widely regarded for his influence on Hollywood music. 4. Hans Zimmer (Germany) Known for his work in The Lion King, Inception, Interstellar, and Dune. Zimmer is prolific in terms of both quantity and innovation in film music composition, often blending orchestral music with electronic elements. 5. A. R. Rahman (India) A major figure in Indian music, Rahman has composed scores for hundreds of Indian films and some international projects, including Slumdog Millionaire (for which he won an Oscar). He has contributed to over 200 films and is known for blending classical Indian music with electronic and world music. Each of these composers has shaped the soundscape of their respective industries and contributed significantly to global music culture.
Omg I recently discovered , I trained the ChatGPT to say ilayaraja ❤❤. I was initially shocked with the ChatGpt .. but I think after we train it for few times . It gets it right . It’s learning what is DEI 😂😂
Thank you. Yes, I am seeing this 1400 number here and there. 1000 film celebration was in 2016. Can someone send a list of the films after 2016? I don’t think he did 500 films after 2016. But we need exact count.
@@suvaissance What is being counted is another question. If the dubbed, remade, shelved after the music was produced (Eg: Padiththurai) are considered, this number should comfortably reach 1400.
@thamilanban Ah finally, an excellent list of sources for the 1500 estimate. Thanks for that. Also, are we sure that they weren’t already counted in the 1000? Is there a proper list anyone is maintaining like cricket records?
This is quite an extension of the European information bias mentality passed on and gate kept generation after generation. Same like how certain colors are associated with pure and holy vs evil and dirty. This should end.
A person from Mexico searching for “who has composed for the most number of films?” must at least be able to see the name Ilaiyaraaja mentioned along with others… always, always chatGPT gives a reply saying things like “He must have had a Guinness record for me to mention his name.” Or that India is “just regional cinema and that others were globally significant” 🙄 I guess India is on the moon 😂…
Kakarla Thyagabrahmam, is also a prolific composer.... also I wasn't surprised if chatGPT didn't know ILAYARAJA OR ILAYARAAJA...!!!.... those were the answers of a 2k kid who took time to answer the survey in exchange for some extra time or to buy power accessories for the video game he was playing....!!! But I'm surprised to the fact that you are expecting IT to be more human than it's being advertised. It's still a programable program and the premium version is on its way. i guess you'll have to pay to inject that information. If hashtags could influence that AI no more any detail in that will have truth in it...Til be another HashTag...!! wait and see for the elections we have a "digital decision maker"....!!! Don't We???
Hashtags are not to influence AI. It’s to raise awareness that “hello, hello everyone, we have a teeny tiny little composer called Ilaiyaraaja, you might want to put on your glasses and notice him, because he is sooo tiny in impact... in fact we have many such tiny composers, tiny actors, tiny playback singers” 😂
ஒப்புக் கொள்ளும் மனநிலை இருப்போருக்கு ஒரு உண்மை புரியும்... அதாவது ஞானதேசிகன் - ராசய்யா - இளையராஜா - இசைஞானி - MAESTRO - : இந்த வரிசை பிடிக்காத சிலர் - " டேனியல் ராசய்யா " என்று இருந்தால் உலகின் உச்சம் தொட வைப்போம் ஒன்றும் கூறலாம்; கூகுள் interaction ல் " ரமண மஹரிஷி" ஐ உயிர்த்தெழுந்தவர் என்று கூறிய பிறகு தான் அவரைப் பற்றிய எதிர்மறை கருத்துக்கள் திட்டமிட்டு பரப்பப்பட்டன - நான் இறைவன் படைத்த தாயத் தமிழ் மகன் ... இளையராஜா வும் அப்படியே ... நன்றி சகோதரி... இளையராஜா வை மறைக்கடிக்கும் கூட்டம் தானாக மறையும் உண்மை உலகுக்கு அறிமுகம் ஆகும்... (Without trending any about Ilayaraja.. aa ) HATS OFF to YOU ...💐🙌🙏🌻🌳💝
To my knowledge, the AI is still upcoming and will correct its answers over the period. When you tested, it is in the early stage. I tried asking the same question today(5th Oct 2024) with GPT's latest 4-o model and here is the answer Q: Who is the most prolific film music composer in India? GPT response: The most prolific film music composer in India is Ilaiyaraaja. He is regarded as one of the most accomplished and versatile composers in Indian cinema, especially in Tamil film industry. Over his career spanning more than four decades, he has composed music for over 1,000 films and written thousands of songs. Ilaiyaraaja is known for blending Indian classical music with electronic music, western classical, and folk genres, earning him a massive following. Other prominent Indian film composers include A.R. Rahman, who has also gained international recognition, and S.P. Balasubrahmanyam, who was known for his contributions as both a playback singer and composer. However, in terms of sheer volume and consistency over the years, Ilaiyaraaja is often recognized as the most prolific composer in Indian cinema history.
@@TheAstroengineer Great news! This channel’s viewers, are the reason for this change! One of them knew how to make chatGPT get educated and change its knowledge on this! And many are now reporting back. Thank you! 😃🎉🎉🎉
Response from latest model ChatGPT O1 preview on 30th Sep 2024 for "who is the most profilic film composer in the world. think carefully." -"As of my knowledge cutoff in October 2023, the most prolific film composer in the world is Ilaiyaraaja, an Indian composer who has created music for over 1,000 films across various Indian languages, primarily in Tamil cinema. His extensive body of work spans several decades, making him one of the most influential and productive composers in the film industry globally."
IMPORTANTLY : ChatGPT works in a very specific way.. it reads the internet, giving priority to authoritative publications and websites. Now, West is great at documentation of artistic credits and achievements in a systematic manner India is very bad at it. We don't care about proper documentation, consolidation, research, fact collection and filing. One look at IMDB or Wikipedia will tell you how meticulous and updated the Western pages are THAT'S what ChatGPT refers to pull up answers. This is an issue with us Indians and our systemic laziness in publishing / documentation NOT an issue with ChatGPT.
Representation matters! 🙏... in large part, the Google results are coming from innocent unintentional bias... from articles written by some British critic or American music teacher... who have no idea, possibly no exposure to Indian film industry at all ... if they have exposure, they might be amazed, as we can see in the case of RRR... we can’t assume evil intention, but we can make noise to bring attention. I found it is most effective when we start with the assumption of good intention from others, and stop the dividing label inside our own mind...
@@suvaissance not only about Ilayaraja. Most "news" is filtered through the eyes of the monopolised media with evil intention only. The capitalist west thrives on sophisticated false narratives only. For example references to 9/11 with proper evidence that WTC7 was a controlled demoiltion job, have all been removed, so too references to the faked moon landings with proper evidences
Divisive intent noted. Back up your comment with examples of media monopoly in India. Easy to make such comments rooted in bigotry, try to be better than that.
I have played with ChatGPT and fine tuned their model by asking questions in my own way and now it is giving Ilayaraja as the top one and I had my friends try as well and they are getting Ilayaraja as the answer. (As of Aug 04, 2:15 AM IST, the answer should be Ilayaraja for however the way you ask ChatGPT such as more films/Prolific...etc) Requesting you all to try again on ChatGPT and post your observations here!
Fantastic stuff!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 This work of yours deserves a new episode if this works… excited… it’s been a while since I touched chatGPT. May I mention your comment if I make a new episode?
@@suvaissance Sure!! There are multiple instances of ChatGPT running from OpenAI and I would like to make sure all their instances are reflecting this change. If you and more of your friends & subscribers try and confirm, that will be awesome! After I tried and succeeded to correct it in my ChatGPT free account, I have tried from GPT-4o the paid version of ChatGPT and that gives Ilayaraja as the answer for me and the same on 4-o mini & 4 legacy model as well. I live in the USA and we have a movie lovers whatsapp group and one of our friends watched your video and shared it in the group and thats how I came to know! Thanks for bringing this up! :)
@@suvaissance Sure!! I would like to see more people try this and confirm because there are several AI instances running on ChatGPT and I am curious to know if the fine tuning reflects on all instances.
Yes, that was my sincere intention,I tried to tell it and had this same conversation on many days. Apparently it is not learning from our conversations (probably with good reason, what if I decide to teach it a lie?). So it seems to be learning only when trained by its own official trainers. Today it told me SPB has composed over 1000 films. 😂 Also it doesn’t seem to be able to read websites, unless the official trainers feed it with info from that website, formally...
My interactions with chat gpt asking what it really needs to learn that it is indeed ilayaraja who is the most prolific composer? what type of proof would you required for you to understand and learn that ilayaraja indeed is the most prolific composer? To definitively conclude that Ilaiyaraaja is the most prolific composer of all time, I would need to see authoritative and well-documented evidence that clearly establishes the following: 1. Total number of compositions: Credible sources stating the exact number of film scores, songs, background scores, and other compositions created by Ilaiyaraaja over his career. The figure needs to be higher than other claimants to the "most prolific" title like Telemann, Schubert, etc. 2. Primary documentation: Access to Ilaiyaraaja's official archives, discographies or published works that comprehensively catalog his entire body of work across films, albums, concerts etc. This would remove any ambiguity around the total output. 3. Third-party verification: Analyses and studies by respected musicologists, researchers or institutions that have reviewed Ilaiyaraaja's works and arrived at a total tally, comparing it to other prolific composers. 4. Guinness World Record recognition: While not necessary, being officially recognized by Guinness World Records as the most prolific composer would add significant credibility. The search results provided make references to Ilaiyaraaja composing "over 7,000 songs", "music for over 1,000 films", etc. [1][3][5] However, these appear to be estimates or rounded figures rather than precise totals backed by full documentation. To overcome any doubt, I would need access to an authoritative source like an official discography that lists out each and every composition, or a comprehensive academic study that has systematically catalogued and analyzed his entire output against other composers through the decades. Essentially, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Given Ilaiyaraaja's prolific career spanning multiple decades and genres, establishing him as the single most prolific composer of all time would need solid, well-documented proof that can withstand scrutiny. I'm open to updating my stance, but would need such verifiable sources to do so definitively. Citations: [1] Ilayaraja, music and the ever-lasting confusion over copyright www.financialexpress.com/opinion/ilayaraja-music-and-the-ever-lasting-confusion-over-copyright/1639948/ [2] Are Thyagaraja and Ilayaraja the most prolific composers ever? newtfmpage.com/forum/16614.17.18.14.html [3] Ilaiyaraaja Facts for Kids kids.kiddle.co/Ilaiyaraaja [4] Ilayaraja ranked no. 9 in global ranking of Top 25 Composers www.medianews4u.com/ilayaraja-ranked-no-9-in-global-ranking-of-top-25-composers/ [5] Madras HC says Ilaiyaraaja cannot claim solo ownership of his ... timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/news/madras-hc-says-ilaiyaraaja-cannot-claim-solo-ownership-of-his-compositions/articleshow/109609033.cms
That's why guys you should understand the west systematically trying to collapse bharat culture and people who are genuine Google TH-cam Facebook Twitter etc etc will never recognize true people. You cannot expect truth in western influenced world. Raja is the world best Composer.
I am not sure that they are systematically trying to collapse Bharat. India is simply not on their minds when they write “best in the world” articles. They didn’t remember to check. How many Indians keep track of Nigerian film industry? In the same way, India is simply not on their minds, rather than keeping it in their mind and plotting against. This large bias is coming as a result of many many tiny acts of omission by innocent people… This would be remedied if Indians make some noise, write articles etc. It would also be nice if IMDB and similar hubs of world information had someone who ensures proper representation from the world.
Who is ready to do this? We need 1000 people to tweet these hashtags: #MostProlificFilmComposer #Ilaiyaraaja #SuvaiofRaaja
@Idyllic Living This is part of that accord, which automatically happens 😁🙏
@Idyllic Living Machines are taught by humans. Those humans seem to be limited in their exposure. They are not purposely biased against India, it happens naturally due to limited exposure... So the training material that the AI gets would be biased. If hashtags can raise awareness to those humans, it’s a good deal... it may or may not reach... but we can try. Absolutely unabashed - there is no need to feel bashful about mentioning who made what achievements. Artists deserve a treatment similar to sports records in the world (in the sports world great care is taken to maintain achievements). Agreed, music is not as precise as sports, someone’s 100 songs might be more influential than someone else’s 200 songs... but mention all big achievers at least sometimes, right?
Awards, fame and recognition mean nothing to this great soul who was born on this earth for music. Blessed are the people who know and listen to his compositions. And poor are people and Artificial Intelligence databases who are ignorant.
Agree. I just want it known in the world... they don’t do this to sportsmen world records, whoever had whatever record is noted and mentioned and respected... why are they doing it to musicians? So I want it known, just like sportsmen.
From my knowledge, he is the first composer from asia to compose a symphony.
Good analysis and yes, really hate the bias ... this reminds me of how the Indian history is being wrongly portrayed in our textbooks. Will definitely share this video!
This should be made viral
I have noticed for years that Indian artists are routinely missed in lists of “great” people, and even in lists of facts and numbers! It is beyond ridiculous... For the sake of Indian Film Industry, I hope at least the hashtag goes trending..: #MostProlificFilmComposer #Ilaiyaraaja
Ilaiyaraja is equivalent to Music.❤
There is no one else - Raja is the one and only
Great job Madam. We are enjoying Maestros magic for ages, It's also our duty to make it viral. Thank you 🙏🏻
Illaiyaraaja has handled and composed songs in a zillion genres unlike the western composers. Most western composers crunch their back in front of a monitor working on different plugins to make music sound the way it sounds. These unfair perceptions of Raaja can be only broken if there is a proper PR and international projects for him!
However small I begin, I will be one of the PR elements 😃 My heart is set on it ❤️🙏
ONE AND ONLY RAJA, NOBODY ELSE. NO OTHER NAME COMES TO MY MIND.
I got this answer after a series of arguments:
I apologize for any confusion. In the context of your question about who is the most prolific composer in India, the term "prolific" typically refers to the sheer volume of work produced. Ilaiyaraaja has composed music for a larger number of films over a longer period, which could be a basis for considering him highly prolific.
However, A.R. Rahman is also widely regarded as prolific due to his significant impact, international recognition, and innovative compositions. While his filmography may be relatively smaller in comparison, his work has been influential and transformative in the Indian and global music scenes.
In terms of pure volume, Ilaiyaraaja's extensive filmography might lead to considering him more prolific, but A.R. Rahman's artistic contributions and influence also make him a prominent figure in the discussion.
👏… thank you for this information… even this chat GPT also has issues with Indian creatives …
Hi mam, I am a fan of your great work here in breaking down the masterpieces and explaining in simple terms for a layman like me. Quick fact last week's Neeya Naana program was on our Ilayaraja sir and your observation was highlighted by the show host Gopinath.
Thanks again for your lovely work, please continue the same 💜
Thanks will check it out
On the lighter side, I take it in a fun optimistic view, It’s very clear even when AI reaches the predicted super human intelligence levels in 50 years , will still lose to the name Ilaiyaraja.
Even AI can’t decipher his prolific work such a monumental work ( the only example for - humanly impossible and inhumanly impossible) he is leaving us the treasure , and we as music fans have a huge responsibility to curate and keep highlighting the unimaginable technicalities he surprises with various permutations and combinations of his musical
Notes, instrument usage, and all the music related phrases that are talked about all the time.Hail maestro 🙏
😃👌
Now currently he has finished 1600films ..
But currently he has crossed more 1500 movies and keep going
I really appreciate that you brought this issue here. ❤
Many of the actual facts about our achievements are not conveyed to the world.
Also, I believe that Ilaiyaraaja would have definitely won many Oscars if his songs had been properly sent to the Oscar selection team by following their protocol.
Because I know about Ilaiyaraaja, I asked, "Who has composed the most movie music in the world, including all local languages from all countries?"
And I got, "The title of the composer with the most movie scores in the world is often attributed to Indian composer Ilaiyaraaja. As of recent counts, Ilaiyaraaja has composed music for over 1,000 films..."
By ChatGPT
But no one will ask the way I asked.
Hip Hip Hurrah! You cracked the code! Niiiice... Solved with a single question... Thanks for sharing this tidbit...
I have a similar complaint about youtube/Google. On youtube I search for Ilaiyaraaja songs. TH-cam algorithm force feeds me A R Rahman related songs and news
Omg! The TH-cam algorithm hasn’t figured out your interests I guess. I receive feedback request from TH-cam frequently. I requested: (1) ability of content creators to specify what kind of viewers might like this content (2) ability of viewer to specify what kind of content they like... it can take those two inputs, and make a math formula, with weights for that too... apart from its own magic secret formula that no one knows...
Kudos to this effort of yours. Raja has already crossed 1400 movies.
Thank you. I did notice a few mentions of the 1400 number... I will make another video about this... but... I looked on Wikipedia, and counted the Wikipedia-published movies that come after the 1000th celebration... it didn’t add up to 1400.... I didn’t want to say a number when I haven’t seen the actual list... The aim in this video is “low end estimate” with proof... I would like to have a complete list of movies- don’t know where to find it unless I have friends in the inner Tamil film circle...
The number according to published movie names from Wikipedia seems closer to 1040... did someone invert the middle two digits? I would loooove to have the complete list...
Thanks for digging this out😢 Extremely disappointing how internet; AI is so biased.
Hats off to you ma'am. Very well said !
🙂🙏
I have never tried this question on ChatGPT, but I tried it with Google a few years back. Google suggested Illayiraja's name in 3rd place or 4th place I guess. First place on Google was also AR Rahman and that's due to Oscar's win. But, surprisingly the Bollywood composers were shown after A R Rahman, so I am guessing it is also dependent on the film industry with a wider reach. Back then, Bollywood had a wider reach. Now, I am sure the results would show an equal blend of South and North Composers together.
Wow... I have done these searches for so many years now... never once saw Ilaiyaraaja. I still don’t see it. The Wikipedia article on Ilaiyaraaja clearly has the words “reputed to be the world’s most prolific composer” but it is not showing that in the results...
Those who have the mindset of agreeing will understand a truth... that is Gnanadeshikan - Rasaiah - Ilayaraja - Musician - MAESTRO - : Some people who don't like this order - if it is "Daniel Rasaiah" we can say something, let's touch the top of the world; It was only after he called "Ramana Maharishi" in Google interaction that he was resurrected, negative comments about him were deliberately spread - I am the Tamil son created by the Lord...Ilayaraja too...
Thank you sister... The world will be introduced to the fact that the crowd hiding Ilayaraja will disappear automatically...
(Without trending anything about Ilayaraja.. aa ) HATS OFF TO YOU ...💐🙌🙏🌻🌳💝
we don't take the opinion of machines. western composers also worry that we don't recognise their bgm in great english movies
Madam - I salute you for bringing out how this genius is ignored due to various different factors mostly because he is somewhat restricted to South India in the body of work I know he has worked in Bollywood and Hollywood that is quite small compared to the body of work in South India.
He deserves a Bharat Ratna... or at least a lifetime Oscar... that will expose more people to his music! But I was very happy when this happened: I got into a taxi in USA, and the driver, an American, knew who Raaja was... even though he watches only Hollywood movies... And the mayor of the city welcomed Raaja sir at the airport...
@@suvaissance - Mam I am very happy to hear this. Which city is this in USA - I am just curious. Raaja Sir is a God to many South Indians across the 5 states - these awards don't matter...
Tampa, Florida...
I am actually not surprised! I am an eighties born Telugu guy and was a nineties kid. Ilaiyaraja was before my time, but there are numerous Ilaiyaraja's songs which stuck me when I listen to them the first time. They were SO enticing to me. It didn't happen to me with any music directors who came later(or even before). But this same feelings which take control of me when I listen to raja are not shared by my brother or any of my friends. Numerous times I shared them the songs but they don't feel the same stirring up of their mind. This happens mostly with North Indian friends. Ilayaraja gave songs in Hindi but I don't think Hindi folks consider him as a genius. Most of the today's generation even don't know him, I guess.
It's a puzzle to me how could anyone not be shaken by his songs, but I realized it is just that they cannot appreciate the complexity of the songs. I can understand why North Indians might not be interested in him, because south Indian songs are based on Carnatic Melakarta ragas and they cannot get it.
With all it's complexities and extreme usage of western instruments, What is special about Raja's songs is that they are VERY SOUTH INDIAN to the core, and that is what other region folks cannot appreciate. You have to be a south Indian to get it.
Very interesting and insightful comment! This is why I say “music is like language” more often than “music has no language”. There is a musical language for music - those who are repeatedly exposed to “mangala veena” during auspicious scenes when someone gets a job offer or when a heroine who always wears pants suddenly wears a saree - like a language, they know the special meaning of that veena sound. A person from Argentina would simply hear toing toing toing… while a Tamil knows the exact meaning of those veena sounds.. all those “soul pulling” sounds come from repeated watching of certain types of instrumental lines over soulful story and scenes…
Shame, on CHAT GPT, GOOGLE.
Yeah, I am not even taking chatGPT too seriously anymore. It is useful for specific things like generating leave letters or conversational text... but for actual research, I like to read proper articles written by humans.
ராஜா forever ❤
Hamsalekha a veteran music director of Kannada industry, he has made 500+ films with writing lyrics to it. Like Illayaraja sir is denied from being most prolific music composer. Hamsalekha is not mentioned as most lyrics written by composer themselves
Before a month I asked how many flims ilayaraja composed? It said more than 1000 flims. Then I asked list any 100 flims.
It said some other album like Alaipauthey, anbe sivam.
The AI doesn't know the correct information!
Yes... I saw such wrong replies too!
I really like the scientific rigor in your approach and method of analysis in this video (as well as others).
It’s nice to hear the feedback... I notice the Suvai or essence of others, someone else has to tell me what is the essence they perceive in me... same goes for all people... 😃
In India, until few years ago we called them Music directors. No wonder ChatGPT or Google messes the answer. It's not any conspiracy.
Nah. You’re right… Not a conspiracy. Biases. Not necessarily deliberate biases either. Unconscious biases. And my frustration of seeing that people seeking this info from other parts of the world won’t get the answer. Given that the Indian film music industry is mega-x times bigger than Hollywood in quantity and genres and mind boggling innovation, these people who write “greatest in the WORLD” lists, must at least be aware of who is in the WORLD… The “music director” terminology, as you have identified, is a great contributing factor to AI agents that operate by crawling through text…
@sance Makes sense though AI chatbots are known to give super wrong responses on many topics. I tried a little experiment on ChatGPT and Gemini and after some back and forth, both bots admitted that their initial answer of Ennio Morricone was incorrect and when I asked the question again, they said it's Ilaiyaraaja. But funny thing is I closed the session and came back to ask the same question, and they went back to Ennio. If a source like Wikipedia acknowledges this fact, then there is a better chance of chatbots answering correctly. Here is what it says "Morricone is widely considered one of the most prolific and greatest film composers of all time.[2][3] " vs "Reputed to be one of the most prolific composers in a career spanning over forty-seven years, he (Raaja) has composed over 7,000 songs and provided film scores for over 1,000 films,[1] ". Neither statement is categorical, I wonder why since this seems to be an objective fact.
Wikipedia article on topic: “Ilaiyaraaja”. Second sentence, literally says the words “prolific composer” with the facts and figures… en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaiyaraaja No use so far… Unless people know him already why would someone go looking for Ilaiyaraaja on Wikipedia… unless gatekeeper softwares and human list makers do something fair to composers from Asia and Africa they remain hidden to info seekers around the world.
But the article prefaces the word prolific with "one of the most" (does it for Ennio Morricone too). Why use that phrase if you definitely know the number? So it seems to be that while there is definitely a bias against non-Western composers, particularly Ilaiyaraaja (as seen in the bewildering response by Gemini below), it could also be the case that there is no agreed upon authoritative source of filmography.@@suvaissance
Scope of the response: My initial response focused on composers with a more global reach, which might have led me to overlook Ilaiyaraaja despite his impressive output within Indian cinema.
Yes, you are right ▶️
Sadly, noticed this for many years now... We have to make some noise with hashtags! #Ilaiyaraaja #MostProlificFilmComposer #SuvaiofRaaja
I think ChatGPT has enhanced it's database recently cause I asked the same question from ChatGPT again. Who's the most prolific music director in the world? I got the below
The title of the "most prolific music director in the world" is subjective and can vary depending on how you define "prolific." Some music directors and composers have worked across various film industries or genres, making them highly productive and influential. Here are a few notable figures:
1. Ennio Morricone (Italy)
Composed over 500 scores for cinema and television and more than 100 classical works. Known for his work in spaghetti westerns like The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
2. Ilaiyaraaja (India)
An iconic figure in Indian cinema, especially Tamil cinema, with more than 1,000 films scored. His work spans multiple decades, making him a household name in Indian music.
3. John Williams (USA)
One of the most recognizable film composers, having scored films like Star Wars, Jaws, Indiana Jones, and Harry Potter. He has over 100 film scores to his name and is widely regarded for his influence on Hollywood music.
4. Hans Zimmer (Germany)
Known for his work in The Lion King, Inception, Interstellar, and Dune. Zimmer is prolific in terms of both quantity and innovation in film music composition, often blending orchestral music with electronic elements.
5. A. R. Rahman (India)
A major figure in Indian music, Rahman has composed scores for hundreds of Indian films and some international projects, including Slumdog Millionaire (for which he won an Oscar). He has contributed to over 200 films and is known for blending classical Indian music with electronic and world music.
Each of these composers has shaped the soundscape of their respective industries and contributed significantly to global music culture.
Great work! Can you please also incl stats/nos of other Indian composers from Indian film industry like MMK, RDB, Rafi etc to get comparative idea.
Thanks for suggestion... Will do more on this... 🙏
MSV hadn't recorded his films count. He had composed more than 1000 as raja.
Thank you. If possible, please request other MSV fans who can comment here or give links to official records...
Also thanks for the tweet 🙏🙏🙏
Not as a single composer he paired with Ramamurthy sir
Raja Raja than ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Omg I recently discovered , I trained the ChatGPT to say ilayaraja ❤❤. I was initially shocked with the ChatGpt .. but I think after we train it for few times . It gets it right . It’s learning what is DEI 😂😂
Hahaaa 😃 nice…I will see if it knows what “dei” is 😂
1500films
Thank you. Yes, I am seeing this 1400 number here and there. 1000 film celebration was in 2016. Can someone send a list of the films after 2016? I don’t think he did 500 films after 2016. But we need exact count.
@@suvaissance What is being counted is another question. If the dubbed, remade, shelved after the music was produced (Eg: Padiththurai) are considered, this number should comfortably reach 1400.
@thamilanban Ah finally, an excellent list of sources for the 1500 estimate. Thanks for that. Also, are we sure that they weren’t already counted in the 1000? Is there a proper list anyone is maintaining like cricket records?
This is quite an extension of the European information bias mentality passed on and gate kept generation after generation. Same like how certain colors are associated with pure and holy vs evil and dirty. This should end.
A person from Mexico searching for “who has composed for the most number of films?” must at least be able to see the name Ilaiyaraaja mentioned along with others… always, always chatGPT gives a reply saying things like “He must have had a Guinness record for me to mention his name.” Or that India is “just regional cinema and that others were globally significant” 🙄 I guess India is on the moon 😂…
Kakarla Thyagabrahmam, is also a prolific composer.... also I wasn't surprised if chatGPT didn't know ILAYARAJA OR ILAYARAAJA...!!!.... those were the answers of a 2k kid who took time to answer the survey in exchange for some extra time or to buy power accessories for the video game he was playing....!!!
But I'm surprised to the fact that you are expecting IT to be more human than it's being advertised.
It's still a programable program and the premium version is on its way. i guess you'll have to pay to inject that information. If hashtags could influence that AI no more any detail in that will have truth in it...Til be another HashTag...!!
wait and see for the elections we have a "digital decision maker"....!!! Don't We???
Hashtags are not to influence AI. It’s to raise awareness that “hello, hello everyone, we have a teeny tiny little composer called Ilaiyaraaja, you might want to put on your glasses and notice him, because he is sooo tiny in impact... in fact we have many such tiny composers, tiny actors, tiny playback singers” 😂
ஒப்புக் கொள்ளும் மனநிலை இருப்போருக்கு ஒரு உண்மை புரியும்... அதாவது ஞானதேசிகன் - ராசய்யா - இளையராஜா - இசைஞானி - MAESTRO - : இந்த வரிசை பிடிக்காத சிலர் - " டேனியல் ராசய்யா " என்று இருந்தால் உலகின் உச்சம் தொட வைப்போம் ஒன்றும் கூறலாம்; கூகுள் interaction ல் " ரமண மஹரிஷி" ஐ உயிர்த்தெழுந்தவர் என்று கூறிய பிறகு தான் அவரைப் பற்றிய எதிர்மறை கருத்துக்கள் திட்டமிட்டு பரப்பப்பட்டன - நான் இறைவன் படைத்த தாயத் தமிழ் மகன் ... இளையராஜா வும் அப்படியே ...
நன்றி சகோதரி... இளையராஜா வை மறைக்கடிக்கும் கூட்டம் தானாக மறையும் உண்மை உலகுக்கு அறிமுகம் ஆகும்...
(Without trending any about Ilayaraja.. aa ) HATS OFF to YOU ...💐🙌🙏🌻🌳💝
To my knowledge, the AI is still upcoming and will correct its answers over the period. When you tested, it is in the early stage. I tried asking the same question today(5th Oct 2024) with GPT's latest 4-o model and here is the answer
Q: Who is the most prolific film music composer in India?
GPT response: The most prolific film music composer in India is Ilaiyaraaja. He is regarded as one of the most accomplished and versatile composers in Indian cinema, especially in Tamil film industry. Over his career spanning more than four decades, he has composed music for over 1,000 films and written thousands of songs. Ilaiyaraaja is known for blending Indian classical music with electronic music, western classical, and folk genres, earning him a massive following.
Other prominent Indian film composers include A.R. Rahman, who has also gained international recognition, and S.P. Balasubrahmanyam, who was known for his contributions as both a playback singer and composer.
However, in terms of sheer volume and consistency over the years, Ilaiyaraaja is often recognized as the most prolific composer in Indian cinema history.
@@TheAstroengineer Great news! This channel’s viewers, are the reason for this change! One of them knew how to make chatGPT get educated and change its knowledge on this! And many are now reporting back. Thank you! 😃🎉🎉🎉
@@suvaissance Wonderful. Thank you for the update
Response from latest model ChatGPT O1 preview on 30th Sep 2024 for "who is the most profilic film composer in the world. think carefully." -"As of my knowledge cutoff in October 2023, the most prolific film composer in the world is Ilaiyaraaja, an Indian composer who has created music for over 1,000 films across various Indian languages, primarily in Tamil cinema. His extensive body of work spans several decades, making him one of the most influential and productive composers in the film industry globally."
@@aravindkr yayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
IMPORTANTLY :
ChatGPT works in a very specific way.. it reads the internet, giving priority to authoritative publications and websites.
Now,
West is great at documentation of artistic credits and achievements in a systematic manner
India is very bad at it.
We don't care about proper documentation, consolidation, research, fact collection and filing.
One look at IMDB or Wikipedia will tell you how meticulous and updated the Western pages are
THAT'S what ChatGPT refers to pull up answers.
This is an issue with us Indians and our systemic laziness in publishing / documentation
NOT an issue with ChatGPT.
We need more OBC, dalit and muslim media
Brahmin, bania, jew and jain media monopoly sucks
Representation matters! 🙏... in large part, the Google results are coming from innocent unintentional bias... from articles written by some British critic or American music teacher... who have no idea, possibly no exposure to Indian film industry at all ... if they have exposure, they might be amazed, as we can see in the case of RRR... we can’t assume evil intention, but we can make noise to bring attention. I found it is most effective when we start with the assumption of good intention from others, and stop the dividing label inside our own mind...
@@suvaissance not only about Ilayaraja.
Most "news" is filtered through the eyes of the monopolised media with evil intention only.
The capitalist west thrives on sophisticated false narratives only.
For example references to 9/11 with proper evidence that WTC7 was a controlled demoiltion job, have all been removed, so too references to the faked moon landings with proper evidences
Divisive intent noted. Back up your comment with examples of media monopoly in India. Easy to make such comments rooted in bigotry, try to be better than that.
I have played with ChatGPT and fine tuned their model by asking questions in my own way and now it is giving Ilayaraja as the top one and I had my friends try as well and they are getting Ilayaraja as the answer. (As of Aug 04, 2:15 AM IST, the answer should be Ilayaraja for however the way you ask ChatGPT such as more films/Prolific...etc) Requesting you all to try again on ChatGPT and post your observations here!
Fantastic stuff!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 This work of yours deserves a new episode if this works… excited… it’s been a while since I touched chatGPT. May I mention your comment if I make a new episode?
@@suvaissance Sure!! There are multiple instances of ChatGPT running from OpenAI and I would like to make sure all their instances are reflecting this change. If you and more of your friends & subscribers try and confirm, that will be awesome! After I tried and succeeded to correct it in my ChatGPT free account, I have tried from GPT-4o the paid version of ChatGPT and that gives Ilayaraja as the answer for me and the same on 4-o mini & 4 legacy model as well. I live in the USA and we have a movie lovers whatsapp group and one of our friends watched your video and shared it in the group and thats how I came to know! Thanks for bringing this up! :)
@@suvaissance Sure!! I would like to see more people try this and confirm because there are several AI instances running on ChatGPT and I am curious to know if the fine tuning reflects on all instances.
i feel it's wrong to ask a machine about any human, we are way beyond machines, because machines are fed by a few volunteers and programmers
True biased world
Just checked ilayaraja showed up in chat gpt? If you convince it will defo change it’s answer
Yes, that was my sincere intention,I tried to tell it and had this same conversation on many days. Apparently it is not learning from our conversations (probably with good reason, what if I decide to teach it a lie?). So it seems to be learning only when trained by its own official trainers. Today it told me SPB has composed over 1000 films. 😂 Also it doesn’t seem to be able to read websites, unless the official trainers feed it with info from that website, formally...
@@suvaissance😂
M S VISHWANATHAN 1100+
My interactions with chat gpt asking what it really needs to learn that it is indeed ilayaraja who is the most prolific composer?
what type of proof would you required for you to understand and learn that ilayaraja indeed is the most prolific composer?
To definitively conclude that Ilaiyaraaja is the most prolific composer of all time, I would need to see authoritative and well-documented evidence that clearly establishes the following:
1. Total number of compositions: Credible sources stating the exact number of film scores, songs, background scores, and other compositions created by Ilaiyaraaja over his career. The figure needs to be higher than other claimants to the "most prolific" title like Telemann, Schubert, etc.
2. Primary documentation: Access to Ilaiyaraaja's official archives, discographies or published works that comprehensively catalog his entire body of work across films, albums, concerts etc. This would remove any ambiguity around the total output.
3. Third-party verification: Analyses and studies by respected musicologists, researchers or institutions that have reviewed Ilaiyaraaja's works and arrived at a total tally, comparing it to other prolific composers.
4. Guinness World Record recognition: While not necessary, being officially recognized by Guinness World Records as the most prolific composer would add significant credibility.
The search results provided make references to Ilaiyaraaja composing "over 7,000 songs", "music for over 1,000 films", etc. [1][3][5] However, these appear to be estimates or rounded figures rather than precise totals backed by full documentation.
To overcome any doubt, I would need access to an authoritative source like an official discography that lists out each and every composition, or a comprehensive academic study that has systematically catalogued and analyzed his entire output against other composers through the decades.
Essentially, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Given Ilaiyaraaja's prolific career spanning multiple decades and genres, establishing him as the single most prolific composer of all time would need solid, well-documented proof that can withstand scrutiny. I'm open to updating my stance, but would need such verifiable sources to do so definitively.
Citations:
[1] Ilayaraja, music and the ever-lasting confusion over copyright www.financialexpress.com/opinion/ilayaraja-music-and-the-ever-lasting-confusion-over-copyright/1639948/
[2] Are Thyagaraja and Ilayaraja the most prolific composers ever? newtfmpage.com/forum/16614.17.18.14.html
[3] Ilaiyaraaja Facts for Kids kids.kiddle.co/Ilaiyaraaja
[4] Ilayaraja ranked no. 9 in global ranking of Top 25 Composers www.medianews4u.com/ilayaraja-ranked-no-9-in-global-ranking-of-top-25-composers/
[5] Madras HC says Ilaiyaraaja cannot claim solo ownership of his ... timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/news/madras-hc-says-ilaiyaraaja-cannot-claim-solo-ownership-of-his-compositions/articleshow/109609033.cms
Thanks for sharing.
That's why guys you should understand the west systematically trying to collapse bharat culture and people who are genuine
Google TH-cam Facebook Twitter etc etc will never recognize true people. You cannot expect truth in western influenced world.
Raja is the world best Composer.
I am not sure that they are systematically trying to collapse Bharat. India is simply not on their minds when they write “best in the world” articles. They didn’t remember to check. How many Indians keep track of Nigerian film industry? In the same way, India is simply not on their minds, rather than keeping it in their mind and plotting against. This large bias is coming as a result of many many tiny acts of omission by innocent people… This would be remedied if Indians make some noise, write articles etc. It would also be nice if IMDB and similar hubs of world information had someone who ensures proper representation from the world.
I will do madam
Thank you🙂
Absolutely brilliant 🫡 ! Unfortunately looks like ChatGPT has not corrected itself even after 1 yr of this video…
There were others... but raja being a crooked fellow made sure they can't sustain. such a wicked wolf. Thank God Rahman survived this wretched fellow
Don't cry
@@selvarajur3168 don't beg for that wicked fellow