Piano Tuning - How to Tune A Piano Part 3 - Electronic Tuning Devices I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- 👉 Find a FREE STUDY GUIDE for this series here: www.howardpianoindustries.com...
Piano Tuning - How to Tune A Piano Part 3 - Electronic Tuning Devices I HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
The modern electronic tuning devices that are available these days are much more accurate than the ones in past years. As part of our free "How to Tune A Piano" video series, we show here how to use an electronic tuning device.
To see the complete video series on "How to Tune A Piano" visit the page we have for this on our website: howardpianoindustries.com/how-...
The website for TuneLab which is the app used in our video demonstration is: www.tunelab-world.com/
The entire 8 part video series is now available on DVD for those who would prefer to watch it that way: www.howardpianoindustries.com/...
Howard Piano Industries offers a wide selection of quality piano tuning tools as well as a complete line of piano parts, tools, and accessories.
👍 An easy way to find past videos along with products and tools tested: www.howardpianoindustries.com...
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🎥 Video Chapters
-----------------------------------
00:00 - Intro
00:57 - TuneLab Shareware Version
02:43 - Stretch
05:05 - Pitch Raise
06:57 - Cents
09:48 - TuneLab
10:06 - Vera Tuner
10:16 - Reyburn Cyber Tuner
10:21 - Accu-Tuner
11:18 - iPad Version of TuneLab
12:51 - Custom Stretch/ Custom Tuning
⏩ Links and Resources:
-----------------------------------
✔️ Professional Extension Piano Tuning Hammer with Nylon Handle
www.howardpianoindustries.com...
✔️ Piano Rubber Mutes
www.howardpianoindustries.com...
✔️ Piano Tuning Wool Felt Temperament Strip
www.howardpianoindustries.com...
✔️ Professional Piano Tuning Kit
www.howardpianoindustries.com...
✔️ How To Tune A Piano Series on DVD
www.howardpianoindustries.com/...
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Thank you for this! Your videos are helping me tune my piano pretty well, even on the first try. Excellent content!
Thanks for the great videos --- made my decision to try and tune the free on from Facebook myself a pretty easy one. Ordered the kit from your website as it was the least I could do. Cheers!
Very helpfull and thanks for the links
After all these years still a very useful tutorial. Thanks!
We're glad to hear it is helpful! You're welcome!
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for. Very useful infromation.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for teaching
Thank you for your videos!
Glad you like them!
Yes, Tunelab is available for Android devices.
Just found your Video Website and thank you for all your work. I use Tunelab with the Average tuning setting. I start with C6 and then tune C5, C4, and C3 by ear and with Tunlab to Unison. Then I work my way up the scale chromatically and repeat the same process tuning all four octaves of each note. By the time I get to C7, Tunelab takes its 2 minute break and so do I. Then I tune the last octave C7-C8 and then work my way down the bass strings Aurally using Tunelab where I need it in the lower register to measure the tuning on bass strings that are hard to hear for whatever reasons. If I have a pitch raise (which unfortunately are most of my tunings), I will do the original tuning going above the correct pitch by an amount based on how flat the piano was and the condition of the strings (it takes a little experience to know how much to "stretch" each piano) by the time I am done and ready for the second pass most of the strings are actually right on the money or need a minor adjustment. Using this method I have gotten my pitch raises down to 2 hours and under. Tunelab is awesome, just seems a little expensive at $300 but I don't mind the 2 minute break and if I am really in a hurry I can close the program and re-open it in under a minute.
Thanks for sharing your experience Steve. I'm glad to hear it's working out well for you.
thank you for your kindness
It's wonderful that u are helping people & enabling them to tune their own piano. Over 15 years ago I was quoted $800 (& I'm talking about Australian dollars, which would be just short of double the value in US dollars, whichwould be about $1500 US, mind you) to have my piano tuned plus replace a string but I couldn't pay that sort of money so I struggled playing a very out of tune piano till eventually it was too off-putting for me to continue sounding bad & the poor old piano has sat in the corner not being played for over 10 years now.
Who knows, I might be able to buy the hammer & 2 mute rubbers & do it myself.. As for replacing a string, I am not sure if I need to replace 3 strings or one.... This is something I will inquire about when I purchase the tuning apparatus. Thanks again for your instructions & Il lookup your webpage to make the order.
Hello! Really really well done videos. I’m a pianist tuning regularly my instrument using this program. Not happy 100% with the result. It’s not about unison but about the curve. Can you suggest me please the correct ratio setting for my piano (I have a small Yamaha grand piano GA1). Also, is there a way to make the software learn and save a tuning curve from a professional tuned piano? Thanks a lot
Thank you for this video! hi I have this software too, however I am not sure how to set the pitch to A442 using this software, which some customers might ask.
Can you select this option?
Handy to know! I've enjoyed watching your videos they are very helpful and clearly explained. I'm still very new to tuning having only started my course in September. I seem to have grasped the tempered scale and octaves but I'm having trouble with the very top treble and low bass. Do you have any tips for this?
Hi Chris,
Are you tuning by ear, or are you using an Electronic Tuning Device?
Thanks for responding so quickly to my other posts. TuneLab's manual says that I could just wait until after the pitch raise to do the inharmonicity measurement. But if I do a "rough" pitch raise, would this affect the measurement? I'm not really sure why I need to do it at all, actually.
Generally what I do for a pitch raise is to use the "average" tuning or I might choose one that I have saved which is a similar sized piano in my saved tunings. This will get you close enough for the pitch raise tuning. It is important to do the inharmonicity measurement for each piano to make sure you get the best tuning curve for that piano as it varies some for each piano.
Hi there, what an informative video on tuning! Is it worth connecting an external microphone to the device for better measurement of the frequencies instead of the built in one?
I've never found the need to use an external mic.
Hello Howard, is there a video of yours that explains all that inarmonicity fancy frequencies or a book in your store that'll cover that subject?
The book that we sell "Pianos Inside Out" has a very detailed explanation on the inharmonicity frequencies.
Lots of good info here. What about mics Howard? How good (expensive) of a mic do I need and where is it placed?
In most cases you can just use the built in mic if your computer or device has one. Otherwise just a basic mic will work.
Do I need to create a tuning stretch profile (12:45 in video) after getting the C notes somewhat tuned, and then afterwards use the profile to tune the rest of the piano? Great video as always.
Hi Fred, Yes, once you've taken measurements of the 6 C's, then you can create a custom tuning for the piano and tune the rest of the piano with that custom tuning.
Hi Howard. Thanks for the video. With tunelab, How I can tuning the piano to another frequency? For example, if I don't want to raise the tone and tune to 433Hz.
With the iOS version of TuneLab, you would swipe your finger sideways across the white bar that shows the note name. It will ask if you want to do an offset tuning. You would select yes and then move your finger along that bar to adjust the number of cents you want to tune at either sharp or flat. You would slide to the right to go sharp and to the left to go flat.
In what order should I tune the strings?
Oh my gracious goodness me ! ! What a woffler !
Hey, great video series (watched all of it just last night).
Question regarding the program: Do you know if it's possible to change A4 @ 440Hz to 442Hz for example and have all keys automatically adjust their frequencies?
After a quick look I couldn't find such option in the Tunelab app yet.
Thanks for watching. There is a way to do a pitch offset, or change your standard pitch higher or lower, but it is measured in cents sharp or flat rather than by hertz. Off the top of my head I'm not sure how many cents would equate to 1 hertz at A4, but I know there is a way to calculate it. Which version of Tunelab are you using?
+howardpianoind Thank you for the immediate response. I downloaded the version 2.0 directly from the webpage.
I have figured out how to adjust the Hertz value. Simply swipe left/right in the field where the black squares are moving left and right. It'll allow you to change it in steps of 1/100ths :-)
+w3sp note, one cent is not the same as 0.01hz, cents don't scale linearly with pitch
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/music/cents.html
+foobargorch Yep :) I've since bought a tuning set (hammer, mutes) and tuned my own piano for the first time. It sounds okay, but getting certain large intervals (e.g. 12ths and 17ths) to also sound well is pretty challenging.
that's reassuring, i'm just about to try =)
a tuning hammer was supposed to arrive today, so that I can attempt to molest our new hand me down pianette... but it never came. why like this amazon?! why!!!! ;_;
Thank you for the very informative video series and for your clear engagement with commenters on your videos.
Apologies if I missed this somewhere, but when you're going through and tuning the individual notes, to what extent does an electronic tuner take into account all of the calibration of octaves stuff you show? For example, an A is supposed to be 440 Hz (or 55, 110, 220, 880, etc). When you're tuning the A, is the tuner telling you how far away (in cents) you are from 440 Hz, or is it targeting some different frequency knowing that the pitch will settle into 440 once you're done tuning the whole instrument? If it's the former, what makes an electronic piano tuner special compared to any device (or app) that accurately measures the frequency of a pitch?
Related to this, do you use any special microphone on your computer or tablet, or is the standard mic sufficiently sensitive?
Tunelab, which is the app that I use, shows how many cents you're off. The main difference with an app that is designed specifically for piano tuning compared to other tuning apps is that they can calculate what is called stretch, which is necessary when tuning a piano. If you tune all of the notes to their exact frequency without taking into account the needed stretch of the octaves, the piano won't sound right when you're done.
@@howardpianoind I need some clarification. My understanding is that when you are doing the calibration it is calculating the ideal stretch for the piano based on the inharmonicity it is picking up(?) Then automatically applies the settings for that piano(?) and then this is further customizable in the tuning curve menu(?). Is this right?
How do you find the right octave type without a great deal of trial and error on many pianos? I have found that an 8:4 lower and 4:2 upper is good on most small grands. The default 6:3/4:1is fine for most uprights and usually how I tune aurally on these anyway. Large grands 7" and up usually like 3:1 12ths to my ear, but 8:4 can also work but give some noise in the double octave. What do you think? And, thanks for the video!
To some degree the octave type is personal preference, though what sounds good on a large grand will be different than what sounds good on a small grand or small upright piano. I think it's just something that you develop and get to know what works well as you tune more.
Hello Howard, I wat to start to tune my own piano. is TLA CTS 7 a good ETD? or can you give your recommendation please
Hi Hamze,
I haven't heard of this ETD before, but since it is a Jahn product I would assume it is decent. I mostly have experience with Tunelab which is an app rather than a standalone tuner. The TLA CTS7 looks similar to the Accutuner.
I have tuned aurally and about 7 years ago used a SAT III. I just got this program for android last year and like it for pitch raises. I have liked it for the most part and feel that when using aural checks and this app I get good tunings, but I'm not always happy with some of the tunings I get with this app. I know what I want to get from most pianos and can get it with this app, but recently did a Steinway L and did the 3:1 12ths and it stretched the double octave way too much. I remeasured and it still came out that way. I couldn't find a tuning I liked with that and did my usual aura tuning for the L. It turned out nice, but I wasted a lot of time with the program.\I'm thinking of getting the Verituner. It sounds like Verituner is a tuner that can keep up with me pretty well. The spectrum view on Tunelab is great though. Would you get Verituner or do you find this to be an equal product from what you have heard?
Thank you Damon for watching and for your comment. I haven't personally used Verituner, but I have heard good things about it. Yes, I agree that Tunelab doesn't always calculate the best tuning curve for every piano and that in some instances adjustments need to be made by ear to account for these occasions. Please remember that this particular video series is for beginners who have little or no experience in tuning. I feel like Tunelab will at least get them close to where they should be and with most pianos will create a very nice sounding tuning. Tunelab is also the most affordable software available on the market that does a decent job that I'm aware of. As time goes on we will be offering videos that go beyond the basics.
When I watch you and other tuners use the tuning hammer its hard to tell if you finish each string with the hammer going cw or ccw. Is it a big plus to finish in the ccw direction?
Generally it is more common that the pitch is being raised when tuning a piano, so you would be turning the hammer in the clockwise direction to pull the pitch up, then to "settle" the pin you would put some pressure on the hammer in the counterclockwise direction to remove the twist in the pin that was created by pulling the pitch up. If you are lowering the pitch it would be the opposite.
Also, about the inarmonicity calculation is it to be done after we tune the piano with the adjustments of the temperament and inarmocity made by ear so that the software will save that configuration for future use or is it to be used after tuning and the software will do the calculations so we can continue tuning the piano further with the software taking the inarmonicity into account?
The inharmonicity calculations can still be done from samples even if the piano isn't completely in tune as it isn't based on the notes being in tune. It is based off of the physical properties of the string.
Ok, thank you!
I downloaded tunelab but when I strike the key it does not change .. any idea ? Thank u
What about the tuning apps for iPad? Any recommendations?
The app I'm using in the demo is TuneLab for iPad. I haven't personally used any of the other tuning apps for iPad.
Do those C's need to be tuned (or somewhat tuned) before the measurement takes place? What if the piano is way out of tune?
Yes, they should be at least close to pitch before taking the stretch measurements. I would recommend that the piano be within 5 to 10 cents of being on pitch. If you need to do a pitch raise it would be best to do that first.
Hello, Howard. Have you tried Entropy Piano Tuner? It is a fairly new software that is actually free and opensource, made by some theoretical physicist from a German university. If you already tried it, what do you think of it? know that it takes much more time because you have to measure all keys, but what do you think of the quality of the result?
Hi Juca. I haven't heard of this software until now. It sounds interesting. I'll have to try it out sometime soon.
I have looked at the Entropy videos. An interesting concept because it seems to be able to do interactive temperament tuning, but it is still in the research phase.
I’m just getting started on piano tuning. Starting with my piano and family and friends’. I have been using “Cleartune” which is a chromatic tuner that I had previously just used for bass and guitar. Would this app work or am I missing something?
I'm not familiar with that program, but most of the software and apps for tuning guitar aren't sufficient for a piano as they don't calculate the octave stretch which you need for tuning a piano compared to these other instruments.
howardpianoind Thanks for the advice! I downloaded TuneLab ($300, wow) and it did a much better job. I just tuned my 3rd piano. I am hoping by number 10 I’ll be confident enough to start charging. Your videos are very helpful.
I’m glad to hear you found TuneLab to work well for you. It does take quite a bit of practice to get to where you will be confident enough to charge for your services. I generally recommend experience of at least 50 tunings before you start charging for your work.
I use an app called Pitch for iPhone. It can be set specifically for Concert C piano or other instruments. And it has both sound detection and playing the tone modes. I dunno how it compares to Tunelab but it seems to be enough for free, I’m about three chords in and I think I managed to get middle C back in unison though the piano was out of tune for a decade so it probably took a hit and no telling how long the tuning will hold. But thanks for your video! I finally got brave enough to open the Wurlitzer up!
The app in the ipad wil work with every single string? Counting from A0, or do I need an external mic?
Yes, you should be able to tune the whole piano without an external mic.
Can you direct me to a source of information on what those intervals mean? ( 4:1, 6:3, etc.)
Hi Jonathan, that is a good question. I'm going to be making a video which explains this in more detail soon.
Do you need to measure up to C5 or C6?
Also, what is best tuning curve for a vertical studio piano? Should i go with the default 6:3/4:1 or 8:4/4:1?
I typically use the 6:3 for the bass and 4:1 for the treble.
@@howardpianoind Thanks!
I tuned my church piano both ways and I like how it sounds best with 8:4 bass for the bass. (:
Hi, your video is useful, thanks. However, it seems to me that you don't really show how to tune a piano. You show how to input C1 to C7 of a piano that is already in tune into Tunelab, after which you can then used Tunelab to retune that piano. What I want to know is actual tuning of the piano. In other words, how were C1 to C7 originally properly tuned?
C1 to C7 don't necessarily need to be in tune to take the inharmonicity measurements. They need to be somewhat close to pitch though. If the piano is far from pitch you'll want to do a pitchraise before fine tuning. As far as doing the actual tuning you'll want to watch the other videos in this series. You can see all 8 videos in this series on our website: howardpianoindustries.com/how-to-tune-a-piano/
A question if I may. I have used TuneLab a little. I have a Mason & Hamlin CC grand. Would you use the preset for the Mason & Hamlin A, or would the size of the piano make it too different to use that preset? Would it be better to just use the standard setting. I have used the 'A' setting but would still request your opinion. Thanks.
I never use the presets for tuning. I always create a custom tuning for every piano that I tune because every individual piano will be different. I'll always save the tuning under the name of the owner.
Thank you for your response. It is appreciated. D
What about Peterson strobe tuners that have stretch tuning?
I haven’t ever tried a Peterson tuner.
By ear at the moment
I’m wondering where exactely you put the the mute? There are so many strings. Somtimes three for one note. For each note, Do you tune each strings separately and mute the others?
Thank you in advance.
Yes, you will mute two strings at a time for each note and tune one string at a time. Let's take a note with three strings for example. If you are tuning the middle string of a note, you will use a temperament strip to mute off the strings on the right and left. Then to tune one of the outside strings, you can just remove the temperament strip on the side you're going to tune. You can see this in practice in these videos:
th-cam.com/video/UU7mFotAlYM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
th-cam.com/video/bx222GGSOY8/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
3:52 - minor correction that's not a spectrum, that's a virtual strobe tuner, the spectrum display is actually what you discuss just before with the peaks
Thanks for the correction on this.
My piano is down in pitch by 50 cents how can you set Tune lab so that the piano can be tuned within itself . To pitch raise may take a number of tunings and not sure whether the piano will cope with the strain without breaking strings in the process
If you are using the ios version of Tunelab you would swipe across the spectrum portion of the screen and it will ask if you want to do an offset. You would say yes and then move your finger across the spectrum to set the pitch up or down so many cents.
What about tuning by ear? I am currently doing a degree in tuning maintenance and repair. Electronic devices are banned from use and we have to train our ears to tune the piano
Tuning by ear is a good skill to have and is important for any professional tuner to have, but 90% of piano technicians use an Electronic Tuning Device to some degree in their work.
Man... I’d love to work through this tutorial, but I don’t have a Windows computer to run the free version of TuneLab on. Is anyone aware of any suitable alternatives?
I haven’t ever tried it, but I have had people tell me that the app Entropy works well.
@@howardpianoind Thanks for the tip and for taking the time to reply! I look forward to giving it a try!
Probably a stupid question but at 19.43 you say the unisons can't be tuned electronically and have to be tuned by ear. Why is that?
It's difficult to get the unisons tuned accurately enough doing it electronically. If you tried it, you would see what I mean.
0checkavailability0 A few hertz of difference will not be detected accurately by any software, but will by your ears, like beating or dissonances in more severe cases.
This was posted 7 years ago, and tunelab has since made their ios app $300 (!!!), which is more than I want to pay for something that I’m just tuning my home piano with. Is there another iOS app that you’re aware of that does well?
I haven't used it before, but some have told me that Entropy Piano Tuner does a good job and it is free and available on ios.
@@howardpianoind thanks! I downloaded like 7 of them yesterday and I was planning on trying them one at a time. Entropy was one of them, so it looks like I’ll start with that one! I appreciate the recommendation!
How can you tune a piano that is tuned a 100 semitones??
Like the C key on the piano is tuned at Cb, then the C# key is tuned at C???
Ps. My piano has never been tuned
I have tuned many pianos that are at least 100 cents flat. You would need to do a pitch raise first to get the pitch close to where it should be so the final tuning is stable though.
Thanks, but do i need to change any settings in the tuning app for the pitch raise?
We have a different video which shows what to do when doing a pitchraise with Tunelab: th-cam.com/video/Fa7gEoFU4xw/w-d-xo.html
Is Tune Lab on Android?
yes
As an fyi, tunelab is charging $300 to register. Somewhat pricey I think given what it is...
Tunelab is actually the lowest price tuning software available that does a decent job. Most of the other professional level piano tuning software or devices are more than double the cost. The main reason for the high cost is that there is a limited market so the developers have to charge enough to cover their costs and make a small profit.
Right, I understand, I only commented because in the video, you stated it was something like $20-$30 so I merely wanted to clarify that this would not be a purchase youd make lightly.
The shareware version that I show in the first part of the video is $34 if you choose to register it.
littlewierdo That's about the cost of two tunings if you hire a professional - so if the program works for you (and, given some practice and patience, it should), it will pay for itself very quickly.
what is 6-3 or 4-1 ? I am already confused
It can be a bit confusing. It has to do with partials. A 6:3 octave means the 6th partial of the lower note of the octave would tune beatless with the 3rd partial of the upper note of the octave.
This app is now $300!!!
The Tunelab mobile app has always been $300. The only way to use the shareware version of the program is on a Windows computer. This version is available on the Tunelab website under "Downloads".
I think I discovered a way around the breaks, if you are hit by the 2min lock down, simply close and open the app again. It resets the app getting rid of the break almost as good as no breaks
can you stop coughing in videos? videos are slow and boring, and they are not clear
Go away angry boy.