Well that might work for a minute, but once the property reverts to the original developer, and they hold enough votes, they would just reinstate it I do wonder about the possibility of current property owners refusing to rejoin?
It'll probably all get sorted out on paper but I'd be willing to bet that they find a way to charge the buyer property tax for all 87 properties at the end of the year because she "owned" them
The title records may contain 2 permanent entries that cancel out, but the county knew from the start there was a problem. That makes it very unlikely that they would record the sale before getting it sorted out
@@suedenim9208it's the government. They are going to find any and every way they can to get tax dollars out of every person they can for that same property. I guarantee they will eventually be a follow-up to this story about the victim of the mix-up having to pay property tax on all 87 properties
There may be other taxes/fees involved as well. I presume they won't be on the hook for sales tax on the 86 properties, but I wouldn't be surprised if some other fees, taxes, or audits haunt them for years since there's no "undo" button at title transfer. I can imagine them having to explain to the IRS why it looks like they bought 87 lots for $594k total, then disposed of 86 of them for nothing even though the value of those 86 properties is in the millions. Hopefully the title company will do a good job sorting out everything.
@@confabulouscruisers Right! I had a problem with the DMV - they messed up the paper work. Their preferred solution was that I sell my car to myself... with sales tax of course.
@@IcyTorment I'd want more than a small compensation. I'd be billing them at my typical consulting rate for time and hassle, past, present, and future and include steep penalties for any future screw-ups. The first thing I'd do and sign in this situation is a contract regarding my fee schedule for my participation. LOL, imagine the potential tax liabilities and hassles clearing that up. Plus, you better believe I'd want to use their money if I had to put a lien on their properties to ironically both complicate things but also guarantee it gets fixed.
Since this was done by a title company, the title company is responsible. The buyer shouldn't really have to get a lawyer, the title company will have to make it right. That's the whole point of going through a title company and getting title insurance.
@@confabulouscruisers I thought about the possibility that it would screw up taxes, but it sounds like the county is on the ball and the individual tax parcels won't show a change of ownership for tax purposes. Assuming Steve is right about the *title records* there will be two entries showing the transfers to the wrong buyer and back to the rightful/original owner, but the title records are independent of the tax process. The county know there's an error and presumably isn't going to enter any change of ownership for the 86 properties that didn't change owners.
Your ad was the first I haven't skipped. The fact you made it feel like a friend suggesting an item while also making sure we understood that you are being sponsored was a very nice change of pace.
That would be good for everyone involved but they do not actually own the lots. Trying to implement such a change would be equivalent to deliberately spending money that was mistakenly parked in your account. The court will not look favorably on that action. However, since the ACTUAL property owners might not object to dissolving the HOA, they might not only get the HOA dissolved, but would actually be hailed as a hero by all of those with standing to sue anyway.
I remember when a friend of mine was taking a real estate course and they looked at a condemnation and "taking" for the purpose of widening an intersection. He looked it up and discovered a survey error that resulted in the wrong corner of the lot being taken.
Steve; I worked in the Affordable Housing Industry for over 25 years. One of things I did in the early years was to attend the Michigan Real Estate Sales when they happened in our Community. I would look through the listings for any properties within our Service Area. A part of our Area included a Municipally owned Stadium. I happened to also serve on the Mayor’s Committee for that Stadium. This particular year there were several properties adjacent to the Stadium that the Stadium Committee had in their plan to acquire. I called the City Real Estate Dept. and let the Director know that these properties were in the upcoming State Sale. They thanked me and I assumed that they would call the State and withdraw them from the sale. The City never made the call. I then contacted the State Real Estate Office and told the Woman who ran the sale what was happening. The sale came and I bid on a couple of properties for myself personally. When I eventually received the Deeds from the State to record them at the County Clerk’s Office. Included in my package were the Deeds to the Properties that the City should have withdrawn. So now I was the legal owner of these Stadium adjacent properties!! Wow!! Huge Windfall!! Well I immediately called the City’s Real Estate Director and reminded him that I had called him about these properties but apparently he didn’t follow-up. I said to him that all of the properties in question had sold at the Sale….and that I, personally, now owned them. You can imagine the mixed emotions running through the Dir.’s mind at about this time!! I, of course, deeded them to the City via a Quit Claim Deed (as that is how they came to me), immediately and at no cost. What a fiasco!!
An adjacent property to ours had an access easement (crossing theirs to our 10 landlocked acres) listed and was also referenced in our deed. During tax season we were reviewing our property online at the county clerks site and found a change to our neighbors land when they sold it a few months prior. This document removed the easement and was filed with the clerk. It only took one phone call to fix it but like you said- there's extra documents that look confusing with one removing the easement and one putting it back. Just shows you that everyone should keep an eye on transactions that are adjacent to your property...not just yours.
If I were the person who "got" all the property's I'd charge the people who screwed up to pay double my hourly wage for any time I spend helping them fix the problem.
LOL I had the same thing happen to me. I had bought 6 acres from this gentleman. However the Title Insurance Company accidentally included all of his 42 acres into the sale. They were happy when it took me less than 5 seconds to say lets fix it 😆
I haven’t bought a home yet, but I have heard the paperwork and closing can be a pain and take a bit of time to go through signing and initialing all the paperwork associated with the sale. From how it sounds, even if the buyer cooperates to right the error, this is going to take a bit of their time and be a pain to them, and they’ll probably want their own attorney to review the documents to make sure there are no other errors. Hope the buyer gets compensated for any legal expenses and their time for the inconvenience of having to go through this.
That's what I'm thinking. Sounds like the owner has all the leverage they're ever going to get right now, hopefully they got the title company to promise to take care of any taxes/fees/etc that result from their mistake as part of helping them reverse it.
I appreciate an honest endorsement, being a car and computer guy, and having seen garbage before. I looked at their site and due to my size, I fear that I cannot find a shoe/boot in my size that I can get, but I really wanted to use them based on your great review. Thank you for your continued honesty on your channel. I appreciate your review and I wish that I could find something that fit me. I am currently wearing a 15 EEEE (that's 4 Es), so my options are really limited due to the size AND width of my feet.
I used to work in a Major D1 Athletic Department. One of the football players wore size 20+ shoes. Tours would invariably have people taking pictures of their foot next to his shoes.
As a 5'2" female, everyone in the Navy acted like I was a freak for having size 8 EE. My feet are even wider now, having had a child! Glad I'm not alone.
This is actually a “fortunate” mistake in that it was big enough to be obvious and recognized immediately. I’ll bet there are a lot of small cut-and-paste errors that don’t get noticed until much later after someone has been taxed for property taxes they don’t really own or builds a garage that overlaps a neighbor’s property, or a loan and sale is held up because the error is found during title search
I've been trying to get this video play all day. Other videos, even from Steve Lehto, have no problem playing. I'll try again tomorrow. Thank's for all you do.
You know, this is exactly WHY title insurance exists !! Since my was in a HOA subdivision like she bought I got the Eagle version which does not require a lawyer to decode. I recommend it to anyone. No Lehto required, it protects against all mistakes and accidental violations.
$100 bandana on the low flying owl. I checked out Rock Rooster as I need a new pair of work boots. They do have some nice boots but did not order as they don't have much of a selection in black. BTW Steve you owe alot of money for the beer you drank! Need a pencil? lol
I think land law and property disputes are some of the most acrimonious and drawn out of all of the things that men get cross ways with each other. I "own" my land in Waco and I am in possession of it and I have an AR-15 that says it's mine.
I've been using the internet for 25 years, and watching TH-cam since 2005, and Steve is probably the only "internet personality" who I would trust 100% in recommending products to me that I know he would benefit from my purchasing of.
Naw. He did something that his client didn't like, but was in his own best interests, since concealing the contents of that phone might have put himself at risk. This title mess-up wasn't in a lawyer's own best interests.
In my Forest Mensuration class we went over the various land survey systems in our country. Some go back to the older English (metes and bounds), Napoleonic (Louisiana), Spanish land grants and the National Land Survey (what you have - the most common). It is amazing how different and complicated it gets from the other archaic methods.
@@michaeltelson9798 Thought that was the case! I remember back in the 90's, MS Word wanted to change the Speaker of the House to Newt Jingoist, even though I had spelled it correctly.
for the commercial part, this is probably the only commercial where I saw it start to finish. I've never had anyone say "here there's a commercial coming if you want to skip it." so i had to see what the heck it was about. If I was in the market for a pair I would buy some. Definitely will keep in mind.
It's going to take the woman a lot of time to help them fix their mistake. Can she insist on fees for her to.e, as we're often charged when signing paperwork? Everyone at the sale, wants their piece from either the seller or buyer. She should be paid for helping them not have to go to court.
Seriously Steve these ads are killing me but my feet no longer are. Let me clarify, I went over to check out the shoes. Before purchasing I stepped away and my computer reset. Later that day while checking my email I had an email from PayPal which told me I could get a discount on the shoes at Rock Rooster even though I wasn't logged into PayPal on that computer. I'm trying to figure out how they tracked that visit as no purchase was made, I wasn't logged in on that computer and was just checking out the website on my work computer where I wouldn't log into any banking account or do anything besides research because they track activity. I almost didn't make a purchase because of the PayPal ad but your previous ad convinced me to purchase this transportation site unseen and it isn't a lemon 😜
The Michigan E-W baseline goes through Baseline Lake in Livingston County where the University of Michigan Sailing Club has facilities. You may have heard of our law school, which I did not attend, being a physics and engineering major. Keep up the good work!
Hey, Steve, did your property law professor have you try to draw out any of the pre survey descriptions? The ones that refer to things like "The rock at the southwest corner of the Smith farm, known as Smith's Rock, to the bend in Smith's Creek..."?
No but I do know that many of the earliest descriptions of the Michigan Territory referenced the "White Rock" which was so well-known that it was simply described as that. There was even a town called White Rock, not far from the rock itself (which was out in Lake Huron, a few hundred feet from shore.)
@@stevelehto in my county in Florida there are several deeds that reference a wagon wheel leaning on a tree. Now both the tree and the wheel are gone but several deed still refer to it.
@@kevinlaird2969 That reminds me of the old joke of getting driving directions outside a rural town near me. "Turn right about a mile before the old tree stump ..."
@@stevelehto I put my wife through medical school while working full time and remodeling my first house, with an agreement that she would pay for mine when she graduated. Bought our second house while I was attending college full time, planning to live off her single income. Closing at Title Company: Because she was the only one working, she had to pay off the loan. As my money was going toward the down payment, and I was a F.T. student, at signing I received full title/ deed to live in the property with ZERO obligation to pay on the loan. Within a few months a letter mailed from a supposed attorney stated there was a mistake at closing please add your signature here to correct it. It looked like it might be fake, someone trying to do a quick claim date to steal the property, so I ignored it. The next letter was the same with a check of $100 that if signed & cashed would legally be an agreement to title modifications. Additionally it promised that if I didn't sign as liable for the loan repayment and take the money, they would just go to court and would get what they want anyway and I would get no cash. During the housing mess of 2008- '09 I believe they may have tried to pushed papers in front of a retired judge for a signature to fix their mistake. I heard of foreclosures by banks that didn't even own properties, theyd had been refinanced with other Banks or paid off entirely years prior being robo signed by retired judges. 🤔 I'm curious if I could, in theory, LEGALLY stay in the house and never pay the bank loan off?
@@arinerm1331 I know somebody that once got directions that included "drive 3 miles and turn left at the bar" After driving about 6 miles to the next tow, then 6 back to the first town without finding a turn at a bar he called the homeowner. They said the bar had burned down a few years previously, but they'd been giving people the same directions for 15 years.
I remember going to the land registry office for my Province . I was a dazed at the size of the registers, with wooden covers bound in leather or some kinds of materials . I could see every buyer of land entered in the register by hand in ink . Even crown land was in these 30 pound registered that could have pages added by unscrewing the bolts at the spine and adding a page . The land registry office huge snd tons big tables . But you have to be polite to the staff or they will just leave you on your own . They every square inch of the city block square office and where different information could be found. Nothing changes in the register , except for new information . Then there are copies of the deeds and maps . So yes it can be a nightmare if someone messes up ..
I've had copy-paste errors happen. I like to type the message out first in a document program, spell-check it and then do a copy-paste to where I want to post it. Several times I was surprised to see a previous message show up instead. Possibly an overflow happening somewhere in computer memory but it pays to read it again before hitting enter.
Thanks for saving the promo for the end. It always irks me when youtubers lead with advertisement. I'm about ready for a new pair of boots so I ordered a pair.
I remember a somewhat similar case in law school where the court applied a "constructive trust" concept to fix the problem (although the homeowner in that case only owned 2 properties and had not been a nice person)
Something like that happened to me. I went to buy a parcel and the county assessor completely messed up and the deed did not match what they say. So I backed out of purchase. They couldn't convey title.
So if it requires the new owner to sign assuming 86 copies to transfer the ownership back to the proper owners, why didnt it required 86 signatures to transfer the proper to that property owner to start with?
I actually skipped the video and watched the endorsement first, because I was excited to see what you liked so much you were willing to endorse! Now I'm going to go back and watch the video 😆
Thank you, nothing wrong with sharing a product you think the audience should be aware of & consider! Recommendations are the root of communicating with friends.
The have been installing landmarks for decades, look at your street. You will find them embedded whenever a subdivision is made. All property lines are referenced from them, even every official mountaintop has one, I have seen several on those. Even the highest point on Camano Island has one, I saw it about 50 years ago. Older properties are always in 5 acre portions. Even when subdivided that always use the system Steve describes, newer homes do not get that luxury. I have several 1+ acre lots in my area and they do not have the same lot descriptions and newer ones.
I was traveling across South Dakota and stopped by Cabellas. Tried on a pair of HIKERS like that. Gowd they were so comfortable. I bought them and only bought that style since. Although I buy Columbias now, That brand looks GREAT,
possible issues is person getting hit with TAXES for those properties, then government going after them for fees. In Alaska an "AS BUILT" map is required, it is survey with all property lines then measurements & distances from property lines of all permanent items on the property structures, driveways, well, septic etc...
I used to proof read legal descriptions. Sometimes I even needed to go back to the surveyors notes. Proof reading these things can be hard so maybe the title company skipped that step.
I’m going to trust your recommendation on the shoes and order my husband a pair! He’s been needing some work boots for a while now. Fingers crossed it goes well!
Proofreading meets and bounds descriptions was how I started understanding real estate. 🤓 Tony Bonacci’s dad taught me how to understand all the minutes and degrees. Eternally grateful to him.
South of Lansing, near Lansing, MI, Meridian road and, what would be Baseline (8-Mile) road intersect in the woods behind a farmer's field. There is a giant metal dome driven into the ground in a clearing. This is the origin point for all surveys in Michigan. You can see it in Google Maps. There is a state park nearby, but I think to get to the marker you have to go through private property, which is discouraged.
Hey Steve, went to Rock Rooster thinking I’d give ‘em a go, since you raved about them. Seems the model you selected, and I was interested in, is sold out in virtually every size, with ZERO indication, if or when more will be available… not any way to sign up for notification when new stock arrives.
I have a funny story about buying my lot, which is a condo. The plat, the title, the closing documents and the city records all had different numbers for my house address. Being there is only 1 house on the street, there was no other way to verify which number was correct. I found 4 numbers in the closet of the new house and decided to arrange the 4 numbers in the order I thought they should be in. Getting all of the legal documents and city records to change the 4 numbers to match was a real headache.
Some years ago I was thinking of buying a lot in New Hampshire. I found a nice area not far from North Conway (less than 10 miles). I was looking at property descriptions online, wrote down a few and took a ride over to look at them, 2 were almost perfect, relatively flat, decent size and price. I went back to the hotel, was starting to look through everything. I am reading, re reading, and reading again. What I think I finally figured out, the same person was selling both of the lots and a third property with an existing house on it. The listing for the 2 lots were for purposes of offers only. The seller wanted offers to determine the fair market value and did intend to the sell the lots, but somehow they were tied to the lot with the house on it. The person who bought the house had some kind of right to buy the lots when they bought the house, so the current owner could not sell the other 2 lots, unless the new buyer did not want them. I couldn't imagine anyone making an offer on either lot considering the conditions. It didn't really matter I checked the listing for the House for 2 years, it was still on the market, the price was dropped a couple of times. It was in the village of eidelweiss, I joined their Facebook group, and after seeing a lo of pictures of the winters there, my New Hampshire desires quickly faded.
What would happen if one of the other owners of the 84 lots was in the process of selling before the buyer of this 1 lot and the title company got everything sorted out? I am guessing that would make the headache even worse? Perhaps a title search on one of those properties would come back with an issue that could prevent financing?
Starting from point of beginning (POB), North 100 rods, thence West 50 rods, thence South 100 rods, thence East 50 to POB. We just went in a rectangle. I miss the job sometimes
I'm an assessor in Michigan, and there is no way this could stand. Those other owners have not signed off on the deeds for transfer of those other 85-86 properties, so they are not valid transfers. On a deed transfer, the owner only needs to sign off. So all these 85 owners would have needed to sign off. If there was only one person that owned all the properties and signed off on the sale, then there could be a problem. This seems like it could be corrected simply with a Scrivners error on the legal description of the deed.
Ah yes. Errors in property surveys and titles. Enough to drive a person to drink. In fact, some original surveys were done from a bar stool. I own a parcel for which the description in the deed was obviously done on the kitchen table with NO on the ground control. The assessor had the parcel drafted wrong on maps in that office. I received a message from the title company that there was a problem with the map. They figured that they were going to have a difficult time explaining it to me. I walked in and explained that I already had discovered the problem and discussed it with the County. Figuring that it would take months to get a corrected map from the county, they were amazed when I walked in with the new map the next day. BTW, the rectangular survey system began in Ohio. Before that, surveys in the east were done with something called Meets and Bounds.
At least someone had the rectangular plat maps figured out. I’ve seen some confusing descriptions that lost me before 1/4 through the description, and I’m pretty good at geography AND geometry!
*metes, just wait until you have to research title and the prior surveys and deeds refer to items like trees, rock mounds, etc. and that the units of measure are in units that were used by Spain. The township and range system definitely has its advantages until you start having to account for the curvature of the earth.
@@paulkurilecz4209 I have state forestry maps that show the range and township grid and you would think those straight lines were drawn by a drunk monkey.
@@paulkurilecz4209 There's a nature preserve in my area that owns a few thousand acres and is always interest in acquiring undeveloped adjoining properties. Some years back they went to court to establish ownership of something like 50 acres that a neighbor thought was part of their (100ish acre?) property based on past interpretation of old deeds that referred to old woods roads, and( IIRC included a description where north and south had been reversed.
The township and range system was promoted during the Jefferson administration and of course Jefferson added more territory to the US than probably any other president. Anyway, to be more specific, the baseline monument from which all other measurements were to be taken is near the point where the Ohio River crosses into Ohio from Pennsylvania.
We've seen other stories where a house was built on the wrong lot, and the homeowner didn't get just a "oops" response. Instead its a nightmare. Since this is basically the same thing but in the person's favor instead of the bank, i dont think i'd cooperate.
The buyer really does have the developer over a barrel. The buyer could get her lot exempted in perpetuity from any HOA; the buyer could dissolve the HOA while owning the parcels. The buyer could offer to sell back the developer's unbuilt parcels at the low low bargain price of $10 million. In the mildest case, the buyer could end up with a free parcel, and depending on the developer's relationship with the builder, a free house.
@@arinerm1331 The buyer doesn't have anything but the chance for a headache. If they don't cooperate any or all of the other owners can sue them (probably for conversion), and there's a pretty good chance they can also be charged with extortion of they attempt to (duh) extort people based on the error.
@@suedenim9208 -- Agree that others might sue her if she doesn't cooperate, but I agree with others that she could dissolve the HOA before handing the property back. Let them reform it without her next time.
Years ago a friend bought a half of a two family on the final sale and inspection it revealed the wasn’t a fire wall in the attic. Joining to two half’s. Giving my friend ownership of both . I never fully understand this .
Lol I pay for TH-cam premium so I stick for the whole video. Great stuff, Steve. I won’t be wearing those shoes, lol not a millennial style really but I’ll check out the site. I’m a realtor so everything you said made sense and I can’t blame the person for copying and pasting either.
I stayed for the commercial… just for the hell of it…lol…might check em out. The land thing. With the FBI and the box’s, it makes me wonder if the guy signs the stuff back cuz he’s a good old boy. Down the road the IRS sees some how this guy sold eighty something properties. Hasn’t shown them on his taxes. It’s easy to explain to the IRS. But they don’t have to believe that. They can start taking your whatever and you gotta try to stop it. I wouldn’t think they would doit. But I wouldn’t have thought the FBI woulda done what they did either. Just a thought.
Whoa, good prices on the work boots! I wear my boots all year long, its hard to find decent pair and I gave up on the timbs they're made so cheap lately the sole just flops off
Mine is 90x200 rectangle and my neighbors is also a clean rectangle. However our properties do not touch. The neighbor on the other side of his house owns a fifteen foot strip that connects to the back of his property from the street.. No it's not an easement.
This opens up all sorts of potential nightmares.... What happens if someone wonders onto one of those properties and injures themselves. They're going to sue the owner of record for that property (i.e. the woman who "bought" those properties)? Now imagine if the buyer had a judgment against her that the title company missed or got filed between now and when this matter gets cleared up. That judgment holder is going to want to foreclose on something, and now has 87 different properties to lay claim to.
Well I guess that temp just lost her assignment at the title company. And just wait until Washoe County government starts coming for property tax. I predict this isn't going to go away that easily.
I had a "Hiccup" on a refinance, where they ended up paying off the NEW LOAN instead of the old one. So I spent some time between being foreclosed on and being free and clear. Interesting times.
Every closing I've undergone in the last 30 years here in Minnesota included a document I was required to sign, which obligated me to cooperate in correcting any errors of this sort should they actually occur. I always thought this requirement should be obligatory of ALL parties rather than just the buyer. One would think that state statutes would stipulate this in the interest of preventing unjust enrichment and/or harm.
I’d be worried about the property taxes first and foremost. I certainly hope that tax office doesn’t get involved, they’re notoriously slow in fixing such things, even when these “hiccups “ get fixed by the title company.
Properties in my jurisdiction are transferred by deed description (metes & bounds). A subdivision in a city 50 years ago had parcels sold by address. Upon sale the deeds indicated that the buyer built on the wrong lot, and technically, didin't own that house.
Can the now-owner dissolve the HOA while they own the property?
🤣🤣🤣🤣LMAO!
BRILLIANT PERFECT AMAZING IDEA HOAs ARE AWFUL!
That’s a brilliant idea and question... might be able to remove their own property from onerous compliance situations. LOL
Well that might work for a minute, but once the property reverts to the original developer, and they hold enough votes, they would just reinstate it I do wonder about the possibility of current property owners refusing to rejoin?
Great 👍 question.🤣😂
When companies/Govt mess up, oh, it was "somebody" made a mistake, when we make a mistake it was us and we are held accountable.
...we are punished severely.
Thats the most unfuriating part
It'll probably all get sorted out on paper but I'd be willing to bet that they find a way to charge the buyer property tax for all 87 properties at the end of the year because she "owned" them
At least a fraction of the taxes.
Exactly and it will take some 5 years to get it sorted.
The title records may contain 2 permanent entries that cancel out, but the county knew from the start there was a problem. That makes it very unlikely that they would record the sale before getting it sorted out
@@suedenim9208it's the government. They are going to find any and every way they can to get tax dollars out of every person they can for that same property. I guarantee they will eventually be a follow-up to this story about the victim of the mix-up having to pay property tax on all 87 properties
There may be other taxes/fees involved as well. I presume they won't be on the hook for sales tax on the 86 properties, but I wouldn't be surprised if some other fees, taxes, or audits haunt them for years since there's no "undo" button at title transfer. I can imagine them having to explain to the IRS why it looks like they bought 87 lots for $594k total, then disposed of 86 of them for nothing even though the value of those 86 properties is in the millions. Hopefully the title company will do a good job sorting out everything.
she needs to hire an attorney and have them pay for the fees associated with this mess. things can go so wrong as it did in the first place.
I agree, tax liability could be one of the problems that pop up in transferring property back and forth for every property owner involved.
@@confabulouscruisers Right! I had a problem with the DMV - they messed up the paper work. Their preferred solution was that I sell my car to myself... with sales tax of course.
@@IcyTorment I'd want more than a small compensation. I'd be billing them at my typical consulting rate for time and hassle, past, present, and future and include steep penalties for any future screw-ups. The first thing I'd do and sign in this situation is a contract regarding my fee schedule for my participation. LOL, imagine the potential tax liabilities and hassles clearing that up. Plus, you better believe I'd want to use their money if I had to put a lien on their properties to ironically both complicate things but also guarantee it gets fixed.
Since this was done by a title company, the title company is responsible. The buyer shouldn't really have to get a lawyer, the title company will have to make it right. That's the whole point of going through a title company and getting title insurance.
@@confabulouscruisers I thought about the possibility that it would screw up taxes, but it sounds like the county is on the ball and the individual tax parcels won't show a change of ownership for tax purposes. Assuming Steve is right about the *title records* there will be two entries showing the transfers to the wrong buyer and back to the rightful/original owner, but the title records are independent of the tax process. The county know there's an error and presumably isn't going to enter any change of ownership for the 86 properties that didn't change owners.
Your ad was the first I haven't skipped. The fact you made it feel like a friend suggesting an item while also making sure we understood that you are being sponsored was a very nice change of pace.
Since they own all lots. Dismantle the HOA.. then give back
That would be good for everyone involved but they do not actually own the lots. Trying to implement such a change would be equivalent to deliberately spending money that was mistakenly parked in your account. The court will not look favorably on that action. However, since the ACTUAL property owners might not object to dissolving the HOA, they might not only get the HOA dissolved, but would actually be hailed as a hero by all of those with standing to sue anyway.
I remember when a friend of mine was taking a real estate course and they looked at a condemnation and "taking" for the purpose of widening an intersection. He looked it up and discovered a survey error that resulted in the wrong corner of the lot being taken.
Steve;
I worked in the Affordable Housing Industry for over 25 years. One of things I did in the early years was to attend the Michigan Real Estate Sales when they happened in our Community. I would look through the listings for any properties within our Service Area.
A part of our Area included a Municipally owned Stadium. I happened to also serve on the Mayor’s Committee for that Stadium. This particular year there were several properties adjacent to the Stadium that the Stadium Committee had in their plan to acquire.
I called the City Real Estate Dept. and let the Director know that these properties were in the upcoming State Sale. They thanked me and I assumed that they would call the State and withdraw them from the sale.
The City never made the call. I then contacted the State Real Estate Office and told the Woman who ran the sale what was happening.
The sale came and I bid on a couple of properties for myself personally. When I eventually received the Deeds from the State to record them at the County Clerk’s Office. Included in my package were the Deeds to the Properties that the City should have withdrawn. So now I was the legal owner of these Stadium adjacent properties!! Wow!! Huge Windfall!!
Well I immediately called the City’s Real Estate Director and reminded him that I had called him about these properties but apparently he didn’t follow-up. I said to him that all of the properties in question had sold at the Sale….and that I, personally, now owned them. You can imagine the mixed emotions running through the Dir.’s mind at about this time!!
I, of course, deeded them to the City via a Quit Claim Deed (as that is how they came to me), immediately and at no cost. What a fiasco!!
This comment is a “great compliment” on your commercial!
I appreciate your integrity, honesty, transparency, accountability and investigation!!!
Ben tucked behind the owl plushy.
Same as yesterday.
"Continue watching for low-flying owls."
Good sir, you had my attention. Now you have my subscription for putting the ad at the end and saying so.
Isn’t it interesting how permanent records always stick with citizens, but disappear when they involve the state?
An adjacent property to ours had an access easement (crossing theirs to our 10 landlocked acres) listed and was also referenced in our deed. During tax season we were reviewing our property online at the county clerks site and found a change to our neighbors land when they sold it a few months prior. This document removed the easement and was filed with the clerk. It only took one phone call to fix it but like you said- there's extra documents that look confusing with one removing the easement and one putting it back. Just shows you that everyone should keep an eye on transactions that are adjacent to your property...not just yours.
If I were the person who "got" all the property's I'd charge the people who screwed up to pay double my hourly wage for any time I spend helping them fix the problem.
LOL I had the same thing happen to me. I had bought 6 acres from this gentleman. However the Title Insurance Company accidentally included all of his 42 acres into the sale. They were happy when it took me less than 5 seconds to say lets fix it 😆
Wait til next year, when the same county assessor will send her a property tax bill for all 86 properties !
I haven’t bought a home yet, but I have heard the paperwork and closing can be a pain and take a bit of time to go through signing and initialing all the paperwork associated with the sale. From how it sounds, even if the buyer cooperates to right the error, this is going to take a bit of their time and be a pain to them, and they’ll probably want their own attorney to review the documents to make sure there are no other errors. Hope the buyer gets compensated for any legal expenses and their time for the inconvenience of having to go through this.
This sounds like a tax nightmare at the local, state and federal level waiting to happen.
That's what I'm thinking. Sounds like the owner has all the leverage they're ever going to get right now, hopefully they got the title company to promise to take care of any taxes/fees/etc that result from their mistake as part of helping them reverse it.
I appreciate an honest endorsement, being a car and computer guy, and having seen garbage before. I looked at their site and due to my size, I fear that I cannot find a shoe/boot in my size that I can get, but I really wanted to use them based on your great review. Thank you for your continued honesty on your channel. I appreciate your review and I wish that I could find something that fit me. I am currently wearing a 15 EEEE (that's 4 Es), so my options are really limited due to the size AND width of my feet.
Found the bigfoot! Just kidding, i also have very wide feet, even though i don't wear a size 15.
I used to work in a Major D1 Athletic Department. One of the football players wore size 20+ shoes. Tours would invariably have people taking pictures of their foot next to his shoes.
As a 5'2" female, everyone in the Navy acted like I was a freak for having size 8 EE. My feet are even wider now, having had a child! Glad I'm not alone.
This is actually a “fortunate” mistake in that it was big enough to be obvious and recognized immediately. I’ll bet there are a lot of small cut-and-paste errors that don’t get noticed until much later after someone has been taxed for property taxes they don’t really own or builds a garage that overlaps a neighbor’s property, or a loan and sale is held up because the error is found during title search
I've been trying to get this video play all day. Other videos, even from Steve Lehto, have no problem playing. I'll try again tomorrow. Thank's for all you do.
You know, this is exactly WHY title insurance exists !! Since my was in a HOA subdivision like she bought I got the Eagle version which does not require a lawyer to decode. I recommend it to anyone. No Lehto required, it protects against all mistakes and accidental violations.
$100 bandana on the low flying owl. I checked out Rock Rooster as I need a new pair of work boots. They do have some nice boots but did not order as they don't have much of a selection in black. BTW Steve you owe alot of money for the beer you drank! Need a pencil? lol
I think land law and property disputes are some of the most acrimonious and drawn out of all of the things that men get cross ways with each other.
I "own" my land in Waco and I am in possession of it and I have an AR-15 that says it's mine.
I've been using the internet for 25 years, and watching TH-cam since 2005, and Steve is probably the only "internet personality" who I would trust 100% in recommending products to me that I know he would benefit from my purchasing of.
Alex Jones’ attorney must have prepared the paperwork.
😂
Naw. He did something that his client didn't like, but was in his own best interests, since concealing the contents of that phone might have put himself at risk. This title mess-up wasn't in a lawyer's own best interests.
I know some people will complain about anything. But I appreciate how you did the ad.
They still use stakes to mark properties. I found all four on my weird shaped rectangle of land. I couldn’t put up my fence till i found them
I would still have it surveyed as it could have been done wrong.
Cut and paste is not an error it's pure laziness.
silly
In my Forest Mensuration class we went over the various land survey systems in our country. Some go back to the older English (metes and bounds), Napoleonic (Louisiana), Spanish land grants and the National Land Survey (what you have - the most common). It is amazing how different and complicated it gets from the other archaic methods.
Metes and bounds?
@@workingfolk It looks like I was a victim of Autocorrect
@@michaeltelson9798 Thought that was the case! I remember back in the 90's, MS Word wanted to change the Speaker of the House to Newt Jingoist, even though I had spelled it correctly.
for the commercial part, this is probably the only commercial where I saw it start to finish. I've never had anyone say "here there's a commercial coming if you want to skip it." so i had to see what the heck it was about. If I was in the market for a pair I would buy some. Definitely will keep in mind.
I love it when a plan comes together
I don't pity the fool. Lol
It's going to take the woman a lot of time to help them fix their mistake. Can she insist on fees for her to.e, as we're often charged when signing paperwork? Everyone at the sale, wants their piece from either the seller or buyer. She should be paid for helping them not have to go to court.
I purchased a couple of pair of boots based on your recommendation. The "Pay Now" button did not work on my Chromebook, but did work on my phone.
I ordered a pair of rock rooster boots, got em 14 hours after I placed the order. Good steer Steve.
Great vid, way to go for promoting a product you believe in.
How about the banks who are using these lots as collateral?
Seriously Steve these ads are killing me but my feet no longer are. Let me clarify, I went over to check out the shoes. Before purchasing I stepped away and my computer reset. Later that day while checking my email I had an email from PayPal which told me I could get a discount on the shoes at Rock Rooster even though I wasn't logged into PayPal on that computer. I'm trying to figure out how they tracked that visit as no purchase was made, I wasn't logged in on that computer and was just checking out the website on my work computer where I wouldn't log into any banking account or do anything besides research because they track activity. I almost didn't make a purchase because of the PayPal ad but your previous ad convinced me to purchase this transportation site unseen and it isn't a lemon 😜
The Michigan E-W baseline goes through Baseline Lake in Livingston County where the University of Michigan Sailing Club has facilities. You may have heard of our law school, which I did not attend, being a physics and engineering major. Keep up the good work!
Love your approach to the endorsement ads.
Lehto Slaw - sold in fine grocery stores everywhere? 😁
Let me be clear. I appreciate this ad. I appreciate your heads up.
Hey, Steve, did your property law professor have you try to draw out any of the pre survey descriptions? The ones that refer to things like "The rock at the southwest corner of the Smith farm, known as Smith's Rock, to the bend in Smith's Creek..."?
No but I do know that many of the earliest descriptions of the Michigan Territory referenced the "White Rock" which was so well-known that it was simply described as that. There was even a town called White Rock, not far from the rock itself (which was out in Lake Huron, a few hundred feet from shore.)
@@stevelehto in my county in Florida there are several deeds that reference a wagon wheel leaning on a tree. Now both the tree and the wheel are gone but several deed still refer to it.
@@kevinlaird2969 That reminds me of the old joke of getting driving directions outside a rural town near me. "Turn right about a mile before the old tree stump ..."
@@stevelehto
I put my wife through medical school while working full time and remodeling my first house, with an agreement that she would pay for mine when she graduated.
Bought our second house while I was attending college full time, planning to live off her single income.
Closing at Title Company:
Because she was the only one working, she had to pay off the loan. As my money was going toward the down payment, and I was a F.T. student, at signing I received full title/ deed to live in the property with ZERO obligation to pay on the loan.
Within a few months a letter mailed from a supposed attorney stated there was a mistake at closing please add your signature here to correct it.
It looked like it might be fake, someone trying to do a quick claim date to steal the property, so I ignored it.
The next letter was the same with a check of $100 that if signed & cashed would legally be an agreement to title modifications.
Additionally it promised that if I didn't sign as liable for the loan repayment and take the money, they would just go to court and would get what they want anyway and I would get no cash.
During the housing mess of 2008- '09 I believe they may have tried to pushed papers in front of a retired judge for a signature to fix their mistake.
I heard of foreclosures by banks that didn't even own properties,
theyd had been refinanced with other Banks or paid off entirely years prior being robo signed by retired judges.
🤔
I'm curious if I could, in theory, LEGALLY stay in the house and never pay the bank loan off?
@@arinerm1331 I know somebody that once got directions that included "drive 3 miles and turn left at the bar" After driving about 6 miles to the next tow, then 6 back to the first town without finding a turn at a bar he called the homeowner. They said the bar had burned down a few years previously, but they'd been giving people the same directions for 15 years.
I remember going to the land registry office for my Province . I was a dazed at the size of the registers, with wooden covers bound in leather or some kinds of materials . I could see every buyer of land entered in the register by hand in ink . Even crown land was in these 30 pound registered that could have pages added by unscrewing the bolts at the spine and adding a page . The land registry office huge snd tons big tables . But you have to be polite to the staff or they will just leave you on your own . They every square inch of the city block square office and where different information could be found. Nothing changes in the register , except for new information . Then there are copies of the deeds and maps . So yes it can be a nightmare if someone messes up ..
I've had copy-paste errors happen. I like to type the message out first in a document program, spell-check it and then do a copy-paste to where I want to post it. Several times I was surprised to see a previous message show up instead. Possibly an overflow happening somewhere in computer memory but it pays to read it again before hitting enter.
I'd be worried i would be charged taxes for 87 different properties for the time it was transferred.
Thanks for saving the promo for the end. It always irks me when youtubers lead with advertisement. I'm about ready for a new pair of boots so I ordered a pair.
Wait until the buyer gets his property tax bill next year. I hope the county is as understanding.
I remember a somewhat similar case in law school where the court applied a "constructive trust" concept to fix the problem (although the homeowner in that case only owned 2 properties and had not been a nice person)
Something like that happened to me. I went to buy a parcel and the county assessor completely messed up and the deed did not match what they say. So I backed out of purchase. They couldn't convey title.
"Assessor, why is your name on the deed?"
Assessor: "Oh, that's just a typo, HAHA..."
So if it requires the new owner to sign assuming 86 copies to transfer the ownership back to the proper owners, why didnt it required 86 signatures to transfer the proper to that property owner to start with?
Let me tell you about when I was a property tycoon and I lost it all lol
I actually skipped the video and watched the endorsement first, because I was excited to see what you liked so much you were willing to endorse! Now I'm going to go back and watch the video 😆
Thank you, nothing wrong with sharing a product you think the audience should be aware of & consider! Recommendations are the root of communicating with friends.
The have been installing landmarks for decades, look at your street. You will find them embedded whenever a subdivision is made. All property lines are referenced from them, even every official mountaintop has one, I have seen several on those. Even the highest point on Camano Island has one, I saw it about 50 years ago. Older properties are always in 5 acre portions. Even when subdivided that always use the system Steve describes, newer homes do not get that luxury. I have several 1+ acre lots in my area and they do not have the same lot descriptions and newer ones.
I was traveling across South Dakota and stopped by Cabellas. Tried on a pair of HIKERS like that. Gowd they were so comfortable. I bought them and only bought that style since. Although I buy Columbias now, That brand looks GREAT,
possible issues is person getting hit with TAXES for those properties, then government going after them for fees.
In Alaska an "AS BUILT" map is required, it is survey with all property lines then measurements & distances from property lines of all permanent items on the property structures, driveways, well, septic etc...
I used to proof read legal descriptions. Sometimes I even needed to go back to the surveyors notes. Proof reading these things can be hard so maybe the title company skipped that step.
I’m going to trust your recommendation on the shoes and order my husband a pair! He’s been needing some work boots for a while now. Fingers crossed it goes well!
Proofreading meets and bounds descriptions was how I started understanding real estate. 🤓 Tony Bonacci’s dad taught me how to understand all the minutes and degrees. Eternally grateful to him.
7:40 | There is a Baseline and Meridian in Apache Junction, AZ also.
South of Lansing, near Lansing, MI, Meridian road and, what would be Baseline (8-Mile) road intersect in the woods behind a farmer's field. There is a giant metal dome driven into the ground in a clearing. This is the origin point for all surveys in Michigan. You can see it in Google Maps. There is a state park nearby, but I think to get to the marker you have to go through private property, which is discouraged.
Maybe no litigation, but whoever messed up is going to pay her a few bucks
I'm curious to know if IRS (or any govt. agency) will come back saying that everyone owes extra taxes on this debacle.
Hey Steve, went to Rock Rooster thinking I’d give ‘em a go, since you raved about them. Seems the model you selected, and I was interested in, is sold out in virtually every size, with ZERO indication, if or when more will be available… not any way to sign up for notification when new stock arrives.
I have a funny story about buying my lot, which is a condo. The plat, the title, the closing documents and the city records all had different numbers for my house address. Being there is only 1 house on the street, there was no other way to verify which number was correct. I found 4 numbers in the closet of the new house and decided to arrange the 4 numbers in the order I thought they should be in. Getting all of the legal documents and city records to change the 4 numbers to match was a real headache.
Muscle memory, I left during the wind-down, but came back for the promotion since you mentioned it.
In Los Angeles counts, the error buyer would also get a tax bill, and a transfer fee for the period of time they "owned" the land.
Some years ago I was thinking of buying a lot in New Hampshire. I found a nice area not far from North Conway (less than 10 miles). I was looking at property descriptions online, wrote down a few and took a ride over to look at them, 2 were almost perfect, relatively flat, decent size and price. I went back to the hotel, was starting to look through everything. I am reading, re reading, and reading again.
What I think I finally figured out, the same person was selling both of the lots and a third property with an existing house on it. The listing for the 2 lots were for purposes of offers only. The seller wanted offers to determine the fair market value and did intend to the sell the lots, but somehow they were tied to the lot with the house on it. The person who bought the house had some kind of right to buy the lots when they bought the house, so the current owner could not sell the other 2 lots, unless the new buyer did not want them.
I couldn't imagine anyone making an offer on either lot considering the conditions. It didn't really matter I checked the listing for the House for 2 years, it was still on the market, the price was dropped a couple of times. It was in the village of eidelweiss, I joined their Facebook group, and after seeing a lo of pictures of the winters there, my New Hampshire desires quickly faded.
What would happen if one of the other owners of the 84 lots was in the process of selling before the buyer of this 1 lot and the title company got everything sorted out? I am guessing that would make the headache even worse? Perhaps a title search on one of those properties would come back with an issue that could prevent financing?
Rock rooster boots are awesome! Iv got heel spurs and they are the only reason I'm able to work a 10-hour shift
Ah, remember the days when half a mil could have actually bought you 87 properties?
It still can, depends on the location.
All those properties would be mine. Id contact every high class lawyer i could find and offer them half the properties if they win the case.
Starting from point of beginning (POB), North 100 rods, thence West 50 rods, thence South 100 rods, thence East 50 to POB. We just went in a rectangle. I miss the job sometimes
I'm an assessor in Michigan, and there is no way this could stand. Those other owners have not signed off on the deeds for transfer of those other 85-86 properties, so they are not valid transfers. On a deed transfer, the owner only needs to sign off. So all these 85 owners would have needed to sign off. If there was only one person that owned all the properties and signed off on the sale, then there could be a problem. This seems like it could be corrected simply with a Scrivners error on the legal description of the deed.
Ah yes. Errors in property surveys and titles. Enough to drive a person to drink. In fact, some original surveys were done from a bar stool. I own a parcel for which the description in the deed was obviously done on the kitchen table with NO on the ground control. The assessor had the parcel drafted wrong on maps in that office. I received a message from the title company that there was a problem with the map. They figured that they were going to have a difficult time explaining it to me. I walked in and explained that I already had discovered the problem and discussed it with the County. Figuring that it would take months to get a corrected map from the county, they were amazed when I walked in with the new map the next day. BTW, the rectangular survey system began in Ohio. Before that, surveys in the east were done with something called Meets and Bounds.
At least someone had the rectangular plat maps figured out.
I’ve seen some confusing descriptions that lost me before 1/4 through the description, and I’m pretty good at geography AND geometry!
*metes, just wait until you have to research title and the prior surveys and deeds refer to items like trees, rock mounds, etc. and that the units of measure are in units that were used by Spain. The township and range system definitely has its advantages until you start having to account for the curvature of the earth.
@@paulkurilecz4209 I have state forestry maps that show the range and township grid and you would think those straight lines were drawn by a drunk monkey.
@@paulkurilecz4209 There's a nature preserve in my area that owns a few thousand acres and is always interest in acquiring undeveloped adjoining properties. Some years back they went to court to establish ownership of something like 50 acres that a neighbor thought was part of their (100ish acre?) property based on past interpretation of old deeds that referred to old woods roads, and( IIRC included a description where north and south had been reversed.
The township and range system was promoted during the Jefferson administration and of course Jefferson added more territory to the US than probably any other president. Anyway, to be more specific, the baseline monument from which all other measurements were to be taken is near the point where the Ohio River crosses into Ohio from Pennsylvania.
6 months from now the head line reads "land buyer thrown in federal prison for tax evasion for the purchase and sale of 86 properties"
So is the buyer now going to be harassed about sales taxes, property taxes, closing costs, etc?
We've seen other stories where a house was built on the wrong lot, and the homeowner didn't get just a "oops" response. Instead its a nightmare.
Since this is basically the same thing but in the person's favor instead of the bank, i dont think i'd cooperate.
The buyer really does have the developer over a barrel. The buyer could get her lot exempted in perpetuity from any HOA; the buyer could dissolve the HOA while owning the parcels. The buyer could offer to sell back the developer's unbuilt parcels at the low low bargain price of $10 million. In the mildest case, the buyer could end up with a free parcel, and depending on the developer's relationship with the builder, a free house.
@@arinerm1331 The buyer doesn't have anything but the chance for a headache. If they don't cooperate any or all of the other owners can sue them (probably for conversion), and there's a pretty good chance they can also be charged with extortion of they attempt to (duh) extort people based on the error.
They might be able to get a bigger loan then they normaly would be able to do...
@@suedenim9208 -- Agree that others might sue her if she doesn't cooperate, but I agree with others that she could dissolve the HOA before handing the property back. Let them reform it without her next time.
@@TheRealScooterGuy What part of only owning one property is so confusing that people can't understand it?
Wait until next year when the tax bills come out and they bill the “temporary owners” for all the lots.
I am curious about that myself.
Years ago a friend bought a half of a two family on the final sale and inspection it revealed the wasn’t a fire wall in the attic. Joining to two half’s. Giving my friend ownership of both .
I never fully understand this .
Just wait until the tax bill for those 86 extra lots shows up next year.
Lol I pay for TH-cam premium so I stick for the whole video. Great stuff, Steve. I won’t be wearing those shoes, lol not a millennial style really but I’ll check out the site. I’m a realtor so everything you said made sense and I can’t blame the person for copying and pasting either.
I stayed for the commercial… just for the hell of it…lol…might check em out. The land thing. With the FBI and the box’s, it makes me wonder if the guy signs the stuff back cuz he’s a good old boy. Down the road the IRS sees some how this guy sold eighty something properties. Hasn’t shown them on his taxes. It’s easy to explain to the IRS. But they don’t have to believe that. They can start taking your whatever and you gotta try to stop it. I wouldn’t think they would doit. But I wouldn’t have thought the FBI woulda done what they did either. Just a thought.
Whoa, good prices on the work boots! I wear my boots all year long, its hard to find decent pair and I gave up on the timbs they're made so cheap lately the sole just flops off
Mine is 90x200 rectangle and my neighbors is also a clean rectangle.
However our properties do not touch.
The neighbor on the other side of his house owns a fifteen foot strip that connects to the back of his property from the street..
No it's not an easement.
This opens up all sorts of potential nightmares....
What happens if someone wonders onto one of those properties and injures themselves. They're going to sue the owner of record for that property (i.e. the woman who "bought" those properties)?
Now imagine if the buyer had a judgment against her that the title company missed or got filed between now and when this matter gets cleared up. That judgment holder is going to want to foreclose on something, and now has 87 different properties to lay claim to.
Someone needs to get the property taxes from her.
Raw land taxes are low. Goes up a lot when you finally build on it. She should sell those lot as is and pay off her total mortgage
There's a township in Michigan that's said to have sections 10 feet off because the original surveyor was a drunk.
This is the attorney no realtor will want but every buyer demand!
Waiting till the next year to hear how the same person is expected to pay taxes for purchasing and reselling 87 lots.
Well I guess that temp just lost her assignment at the title company. And just wait until Washoe County government starts coming for property tax. I predict this isn't going to go away that easily.
I had a "Hiccup" on a refinance, where they ended up paying off the NEW LOAN instead of the old one. So I spent some time between being foreclosed on and being free and clear. Interesting times.
The buyer will probably get a very large tax bill that will take years to straighten out.
Every closing I've undergone in the last 30 years here in Minnesota included a document I was required to sign, which obligated me to cooperate in correcting any errors of this sort should they actually occur. I always thought this requirement should be obligatory of ALL parties rather than just the buyer. One would think that state statutes would stipulate this in the interest of preventing unjust enrichment and/or harm.
I’d be worried about the property taxes first and foremost. I certainly hope that tax office doesn’t get involved, they’re notoriously slow in fixing such things, even when these “hiccups “ get fixed by the title company.
Properties in my jurisdiction are transferred by deed description (metes & bounds). A subdivision in a city 50 years ago had parcels sold by address. Upon sale the deeds indicated that the buyer built on the wrong lot, and technically, didin't own that house.
In Idaho we have a lone giant rock that is the basis for the meridian. There is a town that is due north of that giant rock and it is called Meridian.
Lots of side questions..... What happens when old survey (non GPS) dont fit with new survey?
Even if they legally get 86 extra properties, the new owner would not want the liability of all those taxes every year.