I'm so glad I found your channel! I have a stable of the z220, z420, z620 and a z440. Your content is great supporting these platforms. Keep 'em coming! I know I'll stay tuned!
Hi, thank you for the comment. I am glad you found benefit from my videos. I filmed like 10 videos worth of footage in August - so I have a backlog to work through, but this Z440 one held up production. Hopefully I can round a few more off now, stay tuned indeed haha.
Love your content, hope you start getting more views! You have been my go-to source for information while working on my Z840 and have provided so many important details that are difficult to find elsewhere. Especially the info about the various unique HP cables/connectors
Thank you for your support! The Z840 has been my stable workhorse and it sounds like yours hasn't missed a beat - absolute trooper of a machine. Mine has been quite happy with daily use for a few years now - and I am somewhat unkind to it with the hardware outside the case. But I have a fix for that also (future video lol). I have some footage ready for dealing with 5.25" bay expansion on the Z840 - but I was really hoping to secure one of those 5.25" Bay NVMe caddies for it - like what is seen on the HP Z8 G5! (Unfortunately they retail for ~$600USD which is a bit prohibitive.) I'll be sure to also lead the charge towards the new generation of HP workstations. You can expect content on the HP Z8 G4 in the near future. I have set the stage for a Z800, Z820, Z840 and Z8 G4 overview - all in one video. Now that should be a good one. Someone send me a Z8 G5 for review so I can do all 5 generations.lol
@@racerrrz I'll be looking forward to this future content. I'm using my Z840 as a Proxmox server with VMs for TrueNAS, ubuntu server, and some VMs that I can connect to with a cheap raspberry Pi to replace my main desktop PC. I added a Tesla P40 w/ fans and squeezed an extra 980Ti into the bottom slot so that I have 30gb of VRAM available. This has allowed me to run Llama 2 13B LLMs locally and I plan to use Frigate with open source ML models to have security cameras with image recognition along with other services in Podman containers on Ubuntu server. It has been a fun project and extremely efficient to have so much coming for 1 machine
Sorry I overlooked your message notification! Your Z840 sounds like it's living up to its full potential. The Tesla P40's 24GB of VRAM will come in handy, and the GTX 980 Ti remains a solid card for its age. I am sure your system would have required some optimization to get that many software packages to all run smoothly from your VMs. It's good to hear the Z840 is handling the AI face/image recognition well. That would be very handy on a security system. In case you haven't done this already, I would recommend a UPS for your system - it's just not that cheap to get one that supports the power your system would be pulling to keep it all running. But I have a UPS for my DVR and it's great to retain cameras even if the power cuts.
I am quite happy with it. I should still measure power draw just to get an idea of what it would cost to run but for now it gives me the chance to clear out some drives on my main machine. I had to partly edit the Z440 video from a HDD, and it really slows things down lol. I need to look more at the Lenovo P520 and related machines also, I am sure you are enjoying your upgrade!
Nice dude! This is the end game for me. 100% ran out of 3.5 inch bays in the Z440's chassis. I've got 6 drives in there lmao, 1x16TB (for parity), and 5x12GB (for the rest) on unRAID.
Nice! The 5x 12GBs will pack a punch! I follow a similar logic - 16TB for scratch drive, 10TBs for storage lol. Once I land a few more 10TBs I'll switch over to RAID 5 in TrueNAS. I have been testing NVMe (Z turbo Drive Quad Pro) and SSD (870 QVOs) for cache - but so far no speed improvements. The Z440's original case is great but it really lacks the storage to fully support the motherboard. I have the same issue with the Z840, there are endless SAS/Sata ports and yet only enough space for ~7 HDDs + a few scattered SSDs. The Z440 case swap is relatively straight forward and you can select any case you could want. The only issue is finding a case with decent HDD storage capacity. I am still tempted to try to find a Fractal Define XL R2 - maybe for a Z840 case swap video.lol. The XL R2 has 8x HDD storage trays and 4x 5.25" Bays - which can be ideal for a NAS. The Define 7XL has worked out well, just a lot more expensive to get going.
Supported RAM configurations may also vary between motherboards, but the Xeons themselves usually should also work with Unbuffered ECC/Non-ECC sticks in smaller capacity. Registered RAM is usually required for higher capacities (like > 64GB) because they offload some burden from CPU memory controller. Generally the best course of action is to just go with Registered ECC in officially supported speeds. You can usually find used server RAM pretty cheap anyway since they can't be repurposed for consumer PCs.
Absolutely yes, and that makes it even more important to check the entire configuration carefully before you buy / assemble your system. Officially, I recall the C612 chipset (on the Z440 anyhow) being limited to registered ECC memory only. The HP Workstations tend to be pedantic due to built-in BIOS configuration checks during startup. Normally the BIOS will trigger an error code for incorrect memory configuration when modules are out of spec (5 beeps in the Z440). I have only ever tested registered ECC in this system when paired with Haswell/Broadwell Xeons. But from posts that I read online it appears that there is more leniency with the Z440 given some unofficial support for Intel i7 processors like the i7-6900K. (e.g. forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/hp-z440-workstation-economically-viable-home-pc.1261856/ forums.tomshardware.com/threads/hp-z440-server-pc-best-cpu.3718926/ ). Pending end use, the Z440 remains good bang for buck for both server and gaming applications.
@@racerrrz Yeah, some boards are super picky with RAM and one should indeed check manufacturer site for list of verified modules for best compatibility. Actually now with DDR5 there's even greater difference between REG/Unbuffered sticks in that they are physically keyed differently so that you literally can't even fit normal sticks in a server, or server sticks in consumer board.
@@ruojautuma1 If anything that is a good thing - it would save some headache if the RAM slots were redesigned to better reflect the optimal configuration for the system. But that would still not help to prevent people from buying the incorrect modules for a given system - hence careful checking being needed. DDR5 seems a while off for these workstations - or at least I am glad I don't need to be hunting for large amounts of DDR5 ECC server RAM given their prices. 64GB DDR4 2400MHz = ~$100 USD, 64GB DDR5 4800MHz = ~$200 USD. Wait, that actually makes the DDR4 memory look expensive.lol.
Work on your Network setup to get 10gb transfer rates. I am using the LSI 9211-8i and LSI 9311-8i HSA which work okay but do get hot so I needed to add a 10mm x 30mm fan on top of the HBA heatsink to keep it cool. its plug-n-play with windows 10 & 11.
Your message got hit by a TH-cam spam filter, I only caught on to it now, sorry (no idea why...)! I did a heap of trial and error tests but I never got much more than 8Gbps on iPerf3. I did end up testing a transfer from RAID 0 (Asus Hyper M.2 V2) on my Z840 to RAID 0 on the Z440 (HP Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro), but it still capped out at 1.9Gbps - likely due to the file transfer - (MPEG video) - and the highest speeds I have seen for file transfers has been ~4.3Gbps. I am certain there are more settings that could speed it up, but for the time being I can load the connection with multiple transfers and still retain solid speeds. I can still work on multiplexing both 10GbE ports - but for the time being I got rid of the annoying 1GbE speed limit which has been enough for me.
The Z840 case swap into the Fractal Define 7XL is basically a right of passage at this point. I have obtained everything that is needed for this case swap - all I need is a solid block of time to film the process (a case swap seems to take 3x longer when filming lol). I can confirm that I have actually powered the Z840 motherboard outside it's case without it's original PSU but I haven't yet committed to the swap: th-cam.com/video/Rsr_zxOg6K8/w-d-xo.html
Great stuff! Again gave me direction to upgrade and build a great budget friendly network of my favs the "old" HP workstations. Out with the HP elite 8000 stuff and in with the new to me 3rd gen Z workstations :) I can upgrade and replace 5 aging machines to newer capable machines and upgrade my network for less then the cost of a new RTX 4090 founders GPU :)
Hi. At the price point for the Z440 they really are hard to beat right now. And compared to the RTX 4090 you could buy a fleet of Z440s for the same $s. The Z240 is also a great performer for slightly less. It just depends on the number of PCIe slots that you require. I have my Z440 fully loaded and yet I may still require more PCIe functionality (I only have 2x empty sata ports on the mobo and I could load another ~8 HDDs and several SSDs if I went overboard - this case is so spacious lol). The other machines that are of good value are the Lenovo workstations - like the P520. I am yet to see them sell for less than $800 USD here in NZ, but they are quite powerful for the price point. HP's equivalent machines would be the Z4 G4 and Z6 G4. Their prices are also gradually coming down.
Yes, the z240 ssf motherboard is really cramped and limited even in a new case, I am going to stick to the z240 tower motherboards as stuff is better placed, z240's will serve me fine for simple gaming/ workstations on the network, the z440 is wayy better for all sorts of stuff. I cannot wait to upgrade mine. This NAS build is fantastic! Keep it up! I am just struggling right now with HP bios settings and stuff, but will figure it out :) @@racerrrz
Sorry I overlooked your reply here. The Z240 is a solid option but my only complain with them is that they can only handle a limited number of PCIe expansion cards. They can do one thing really well, just not everything. My Z440 NAS is still working away well. I am refining the system further by testing NVMe cache, SSD cache, and I just added two more 10TB drives and I am hoping to test a RAID 5 setup for transfer speed improvements. I'll have to do a follow-up video on refinements if I manage to optimize some good adjustments on it. If you had questions on the BIOS feel free to ask. Most of the BIOS settings should be fine by default, unless you wanted specific features etc.
@@racerrrz I have found out if I stick with the z240 tower version and not sff , I can add an extra PCIe x1 slot with hp adapter 696971-001 to the bottom of the motherboard. Seems to work good for something like a Wifi adapter. Its not a x16 slot but better then nothing :) I am keeping an eye on z840's prices also. I hope you can keep the channel going, I know stuff is not cheap , I am crossing fingers we can get into a position to support you more ... Thank you again for your content :)
@@JordanGospelMinistryInc-go8qp Nice! I didn't discover that feature - or rather I didn't read into it. I noticed the data port on the lower right of the tower z240 board but I never read into it. The PCI riser board is available and it's cheap, and it would add a full length PCI mechanical slot with x1 electrical connectivity. So it would run an older PCI card like a Wifi card or serial adapter. If only it could handle more lanes! I presume the M.2 NVMe slot will be using the chipset's bandwidth (being x4 electrically connected). The Z840 prices have started to drop, but I feel like they have hit a plateau. Keep an eye out for the newer architecture. The HP Z4 G4 and Z6 G4 are often cheaper than the Z840 and they deliver better performance given the newer CPU architecture and faster RAM, minus the Z840's PSU and PCIe grunt. And yes, inflation is really doing on number on everyone. Spare cash covers those interest rates! Thank you for the support! In the TH-cam world likes and comments are the currency that's needed, so you are adding value! Thanks. I need to get some videos out on the Z8 G4 - CPU fitment guide and CPU buying guide would be a great place to start. I also want to do a Z800 vs Z820, vs Z840 vs Z8 G4 video! But the older workstations are getting rare now. If only I had a Z8 G5 for review - I would be able to make a really clickbait thumbnail lol.
12:15 - Will the system refuse to boot if you don't have the power LED and HDD LED front panel wires hooked up? I just swapped my HP Z440 motherboard and stuff into a Fractal Design Pop XL, and it will start up, fans will spin, it will be on for like 5-7 seconds, and then it just shuts off and refuses to start again if the power switch is pressed. I have to flip the switch on the PSU off and back to on to get it to start again, spin up fans, be on for like 5-7 seconds, wash, rinse, repeat. I have all 8 memory modules populated and I have the pins jumped using jumpers so it will work even without the fan shroud.
Hi. From what you are describing there could be a number of things that cause this issue. I had the same thing with my Z8 G4 initially and you need to go back to bare bones to figure out what is causing the issue. HP workstations run a hardware check before launching the BIOS - and it sounds like your machine is unhappy with the hardware configuration and it's terminating the boot operation before reaching the BIOS. Ideally you need to return to 1 RAM module and a basic GPU - something like a Quadro K420 connected with a DVI cable to a DVI capable monitor (I have found that HDMI or DP ports tend to not work when the system is in this boot state). If the system manages to boot, you can now add in more RAM - but first go for 4 modules. If it starts doing it's boot loop again you will be able to isolate where the problem is (bad memory module?). At a best guess, it's not the lack of a HDD light or Power light but rather the memory jumper and 8 RAM modules that is causing the error. I am working on a DIY fix for the memory boot error for the Z440. From what I have read the memory jumper does remove the error message but it does not provide the correct signals to the motherboard which can cause boot issues (likely not all motherboards have the same configuration because for some it works and for others there are issues - you'll notice that in the comments for the memory jumper TH-cam video).
@racerrrz So update, I was a dummy and forgot to make space for the reset button on the motherboard's rear I/O so my makeshift I/O shield was holding the reset button down everytime I tried to power up causing the system to refuse to boot. Once I made space for it, so it was no longer be pressed, my system boots and posts! IT'S ALIVE!!!! MUHahahahhahahahaha!
@@theexile4694 That's awesome! Haha don't you love it when it's something simple like that! That's not something I would have predicted, well done for figuring that out! The rear I/O plate is tricky to sort but you can get them on Amazon etc. - I added mine in after assembly - there were none on Amazon/Ebay/AliExpress when I build the system but shortly after they popped up on market places. Enjoy your Z440 in it's new home!
@racerrrz I am big sad because I wanted to play Helldiver 2 on it and the system just can't handle the CPU demands. For Helldivers 2 and some of the other modern titles you need a Skylake generation Xeon part and this system just doesn't support. It only supports Haswell and Broadwell Xeons. Big sad.😥 OH well. It can still play plenty of other titles and works great. Thanks for the replies and video, especially the wiring part for the front panel stuff.
The original PSU would work relatively well given the power efficiency that comes with it. I opted for a ATX PSU so that I could sell the Z440 again. I quickly checked fitment, the Z440 PSU has non-standard mounting screw locations which by my eye would only allow 1 screw to be fitted. The PSU is also quite bulky and as an example I can't fit it into the Cooler Master MB500 mid tower case (there is a narrow PSU fitment slot). I suspect the PSU may fit in the Define 7XL due to the open front fitment design, but again with the issue of screw fitment. Creating a custom mounting plate from sheet metal or plastic could solve that.
How did you have the storage configured in TrueNAS btw? That transfer rate looks like no striping. Feeling motivated to try ZFS and have super fast storage pool, I just pulled the trigger on 4 x 2TB NVMe drives. I was doing some reading and it seems like my options would be to either configure them as single vdev in raidz1 which would give me parity but no striping, or each as their own vdev within one pool which would give me striping but no redundancy. I'm thinking I might go with performance and just have external backups of important data in case one of the NVMe ever happens to fail. Could be couple of weeks before all parts arrive and I have time to set things up, but I'm eagerly expecting that I should be able to saturate my 10GbE link between workstation and server.
So far it's just individual drives connected through the H240 HBA but without a RAID configuration in TrueNAS Core. I need to transfer data across to larger drives to clean up the accumulation of data across several smaller drives (mostly 2TBs and 4TBs). It gets messy when you try to manage on small drives for a long time. If you can go with RAIDZ1 that would be ideal - but it's really only worth it if you need the redundancy for critical data. If you can go with external backups that's likely the ideal. I prefer to not keep my drives running 24/7 - unless it's a lower power draw system that's intended to be a server. This Z440 is more like external backup in my case. Now is a good time to buy with Black Friday sales, although it was rather lackluster here in NZ for me. Nothing well priced. 4x 2TB NVMes in RAID 0 is great. I do all my editing from my RAID 0 pool and it never misses a beat (this being my Win 10 software RAID). Speeds are quite variable though. My highest speed to date is 12000MB/s read, 10000MB/s write - but on average it's closer to 8000/6000MB/s. With a couple more 10TBs I'll set up a RAID 5 for critical data. I do need to test the effect of parity on transfer speeds since I have tested NVMe and SSD cache without speed improvement over my 10GbE network. I also tested a RAID 0 NVMe pool (2x 1TB 980s) but also didn't seem to net higher speeds - but I was transferring from a 16TB Iron Wolf within my Z840. I'll eventuality test NVMe RAID 0 to NVMe RAID 0 over the 10GbE connection. That better give me at least 6Gpbs lol.
@@racerrrz I would expect you should be able to exceed 6Gbps speeds. If not by default, then at least by tuning Samba configs. I noticed some improvement at least in writes over network after setting things like write cache size, socket buffer size, aio etc in smb configs. Anyway it's unlikely you'll ever reach 100% network saturation with just single connection, but I think you should be able to get pretty close with some tuning. The same phenomenon can be seen when benchmarking connection with iperf2 (supports multiple connections) vs iperf3 (single connection) where it's much harder to reach same speeds with iperf3 without tuning.
@@ruojautuma1 I have tried nearly everything I could think of, but as soon as a HDD is involved in the transfer I seem to not see transfer speeds greater than that HDD's write limit. Activating jumbo packets helped a little, mostly in improving iPerf3 speeds (~6Gbps was my average). I need to spend more time to improve those speeds because transferring a few TB still takes way too long. I need to test a RAID 0 NVMe pool to a RAID 0 NVMe pool via 10GbE. If that fails to give decent speeds there has to be some serious settings to tweak to get rid of what ever my speed limiter is. I'll see if I can get more speed from your suggestions also (testing write cache size, socket buffer size, aio etc in smb configs).
@@racerrrz Here's what I appended under global in /etc/samba/smb.conf in my Debian server: socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=65536 SO_SNDBUF=65536 write cache size = 262144 getwd cache = yes use sendfile = yes min receivefile size = 16384 aio read size = 16384 aio write size = 16384 aio write behind = true Out of curiosity: what do you get if you do: iperf3 -w 4M -l 1M I was getting up to 9.91Gbps fairly consistently.
Sorry I am super slow here, I missed this message! I just checked on my system (Z8 G4 as client in Win 10, Z440 as TrueNAS server, with your buffer size and length settings - so [-w 4M -l 1M]): 8.35 GBytes 7.17 Gbits/sec . With more refinement of the transfer settings the speeds may climb up closer to 10 Gbps. At least it was a little bit faster than the default iperf3 speeds (5.93 GBytes 5.09 Gbits/sec), but still not as fast as your system's 9.91Gbps! I will add, my hardware is now in the Z8 G4 with a new Win 10 OS, which means my speeds are not being set by the client hardware at least lol. I figured my Z840 might just be a little slow but no change with the same hardware loaded into a Z8 G4 (well same 10GbE card at least - new system).
Hi there. Is this issue on your Z440 after a case swap? I presume you are in Windows 10. What device are you plugging into the USB 2.0 ports? Normally the option to safely remove a drive is only present for flash media (i.e. a USB flash drive) - HDDs /SSDs / NVMes tend to not have this option because they are not classified as removable storage.
The HP Z440 has a proprietary 6-pin CPU fan header (seen at 9:35 also) and the adapter cable allows a normal 4-pin PWM fan - like the Noctua NH-U9S to connect without any boot errors. Where on the motherboard did you plug in your NH-U9S fan connector? A case like the Fractal Define 7XL has the Nexus fan hub which would help with connecting a CPU fan but the BIOS will complain if there is no 6-pin CPU fan header connected. There is a good guide on the fan header issue here also: michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2021-08-28-silent-hp-z440-workstation/
@@racerrrz I just plugged the 4-pin for the NH-U9S into the 6-pin CPU header on the motherboard, as I saw in Coalition Gaming Z440 case swap video. No boot errors, that I've seen. I used the Michael Stapelberg guide, when replacing the stock Z440 case fans with 92mm Pure Wings 2 fans.
@@bobsonuk That's cool, I didn't see that Coalition Gaming did a Z440 case swap - or at least when I did a TH-cam search his case swap didn't come up. The joys of TH-cam search optimisation (his video title doesn't have Z440 in it, that might be why). Anyhow, that's cool. I had in mind that the CPU pinouts were inverted from normal 4-pins (the proprietary HP thing to do), and rechecking it it appears to be the case for the Z620 CPU fan ( www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/1394500888_ywsnpxtr_z620_pinout2-jpg.162642/ ), but maybe not for the Z440. This is the challenge when wire pinouts aren't readily published by the manufacturer. What is curious is that pin 5 and pin 6 of the Z440's 6-pin CPU fan plug (so the pins not used on your system now) are all bridged with Pin 1 - which is the ground. I would have expected a BIOS error from not grounding those pins - but clearly not! I am looking at a Z440 memory fan shroud fix so that 8 RAM modules can be run without the Fan shroud (something that a case swap doesn't support). I got a memory shroud that will be used in the name of science lol.
Looking at the case design I am not 100% certain that it would fit. The right hand side and bottom of the motherboard mounting appears to be recessed which may prevent the Z440's larger than ATX motherboard from fitting correctly. I like the case's design so it would be cool to see if it works.
Hi there. Sorry I am a little slow to respond. Adding to what was in the video, I still think the E5-2697A V4 or E5-2697 V4 would be the best value given their higher turbo clock speed. The E5-2696 V4 is also a solid CPU if you wanted cores (basically the same as the E5-2699 V4 but slightly cheaper).
Nice. What did you plan on using your system for? I won't mind a E5-2699 V4 - the added cores could be useful if it's more of a NAS /Proxmox Server build.
@@racerrrz I plan to use it mainly for 3d CAD work, rendering and multitasking with various 3d & Illstation software. In my spare Time I will alos do a bit of gaming, but it's not it'S first role since I don't game a lot.
@@TheGuillohm Nice. I'd definitely recommend the E5-2697A V4 for the added turbo clock speed. Many processes within the applications wind up using only one core. As much as I appreciate having ample cores I really don't like my system lagging out from one core having to carry large software loads.
That's a good question. I have not measured the board just yet, but I would place it closer to ATX than E-ATX - despite it having 8 memory slots. I have a motherboard just sitting here (future video), so here goes: It measures at: 32cm x 26 cm or 12.6" x 10.2" inches which places it just larger than ATX which is generally 12" by 9.6" inches.
I would like to think any ATX case will fit it but certain Mid Tower cases that are a bit cramped may have clearance issues due to the Z440 being slightly large than expected for ATX. Looking at some of the smaller ATX case designs, like the Lian Li O11 AIR MINI, I suspect it would still fit by having some overhang into your cable routing area. As an example: lian-li.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/o11-air-mini-so6-01_a.jpg - the Z440 would sit slightly longer and wider than ATX on the diagram. No worries - my replies are generally slow - unless I am active on TH-cam when you message - then I'll be fast.
@@racerrrz I'm thinking of buying a Kolink observatory due to its cheap price and amount of fans with not so shabby thermals, do you have a discord server by chance? I'd love to join it if you do :)
@@Noone-ii4kv Nice, the Kolink observatory looks decent and it's good that it supports E-ATX - that gives you a bit more room to expand. I have created a Discord server but I am really infrequent with my Discord use. I need to step it up! discord.gg/QmpMeE7Xfb
Ah nooo, what happened to your one? I planned to get a new motherboard for it so I could on-sell it again, but I've been lazy with it and it's just standing around - empty - with a good PSU and all auxiliaries...lol. I will get around to getting a new board into it eventually so some else can enjoy it again. I presume shipping cost for a empty case will be more than the case is worth. You might get lucky with bare bones system on used sites like ebay - pending where you reside anyhow. I am in NZ btw.
Thank you for the feedback. For which part of the video? Likely all of it could do with better quality, sorry about that. I managed to tweak my Logitech Brio 4k webcam green screen footage to get closer to 60fps after this video (I believe it was 30FPS with some odd stutter glitch effect introduced by either the NVIDIA Broadcast software or the USB 3.0 port - not intended). I use a GoPro Hero 10 for the action shots but it really doesn't like near focus shots and yields out of focus content often. My main camera is a Nikon D5600 which is far from ideal for video work but it's what I have for now. Better lighting has helped to improve the quality a bunch in my newer videos.
Hi there. I am sorry to hear you found no benefit from this video. The video provides a detailed guide for how to case-swap a Z440 into a new case and includes everything required to complete the swap - including the wire pinouts. If there was something that I missed feel free to point it out so I can take it into consideration for future guide videos. I aimed to create the most detailed Z440 case swap guide on the internet but it's good to know that my efforts can still be improved on.
I'm so glad I found your channel! I have a stable of the z220, z420, z620 and a z440. Your content is great supporting these platforms. Keep 'em coming! I know I'll stay tuned!
Hi, thank you for the comment. I am glad you found benefit from my videos. I filmed like 10 videos worth of footage in August - so I have a backlog to work through, but this Z440 one held up production. Hopefully I can round a few more off now, stay tuned indeed haha.
Love your content, hope you start getting more views! You have been my go-to source for information while working on my Z840 and have provided so many important details that are difficult to find elsewhere. Especially the info about the various unique HP cables/connectors
Thank you for your support! The Z840 has been my stable workhorse and it sounds like yours hasn't missed a beat - absolute trooper of a machine. Mine has been quite happy with daily use for a few years now - and I am somewhat unkind to it with the hardware outside the case. But I have a fix for that also (future video lol). I have some footage ready for dealing with 5.25" bay expansion on the Z840 - but I was really hoping to secure one of those 5.25" Bay NVMe caddies for it - like what is seen on the HP Z8 G5! (Unfortunately they retail for ~$600USD which is a bit prohibitive.)
I'll be sure to also lead the charge towards the new generation of HP workstations. You can expect content on the HP Z8 G4 in the near future. I have set the stage for a Z800, Z820, Z840 and Z8 G4 overview - all in one video. Now that should be a good one. Someone send me a Z8 G5 for review so I can do all 5 generations.lol
@@racerrrz I'll be looking forward to this future content.
I'm using my Z840 as a Proxmox server with VMs for TrueNAS, ubuntu server, and some VMs that I can connect to with a cheap raspberry Pi to replace my main desktop PC. I added a Tesla P40 w/ fans and squeezed an extra 980Ti into the bottom slot so that I have 30gb of VRAM available. This has allowed me to run Llama 2 13B LLMs locally and I plan to use Frigate with open source ML models to have security cameras with image recognition along with other services in Podman containers on Ubuntu server. It has been a fun project and extremely efficient to have so much coming for 1 machine
Sorry I overlooked your message notification! Your Z840 sounds like it's living up to its full potential. The Tesla P40's 24GB of VRAM will come in handy, and the GTX 980 Ti remains a solid card for its age. I am sure your system would have required some optimization to get that many software packages to all run smoothly from your VMs. It's good to hear the Z840 is handling the AI face/image recognition well. That would be very handy on a security system. In case you haven't done this already, I would recommend a UPS for your system - it's just not that cheap to get one that supports the power your system would be pulling to keep it all running. But I have a UPS for my DVR and it's great to retain cameras even if the power cuts.
Man that's a great NAS I'm surprised how well these systems performed while I had one.
I am quite happy with it. I should still measure power draw just to get an idea of what it would cost to run but for now it gives me the chance to clear out some drives on my main machine. I had to partly edit the Z440 video from a HDD, and it really slows things down lol. I need to look more at the Lenovo P520 and related machines also, I am sure you are enjoying your upgrade!
Nice dude! This is the end game for me. 100% ran out of 3.5 inch bays in the Z440's chassis. I've got 6 drives in there lmao, 1x16TB (for parity), and 5x12GB (for the rest) on unRAID.
Nice! The 5x 12GBs will pack a punch! I follow a similar logic - 16TB for scratch drive, 10TBs for storage lol. Once I land a few more 10TBs I'll switch over to RAID 5 in TrueNAS. I have been testing NVMe (Z turbo Drive Quad Pro) and SSD (870 QVOs) for cache - but so far no speed improvements.
The Z440's original case is great but it really lacks the storage to fully support the motherboard. I have the same issue with the Z840, there are endless SAS/Sata ports and yet only enough space for ~7 HDDs + a few scattered SSDs.
The Z440 case swap is relatively straight forward and you can select any case you could want. The only issue is finding a case with decent HDD storage capacity. I am still tempted to try to find a Fractal Define XL R2 - maybe for a Z840 case swap video.lol. The XL R2 has 8x HDD storage trays and 4x 5.25" Bays - which can be ideal for a NAS. The Define 7XL has worked out well, just a lot more expensive to get going.
Supported RAM configurations may also vary between motherboards, but the Xeons themselves usually should also work with Unbuffered ECC/Non-ECC sticks in smaller capacity. Registered RAM is usually required for higher capacities (like > 64GB) because they offload some burden from CPU memory controller. Generally the best course of action is to just go with Registered ECC in officially supported speeds. You can usually find used server RAM pretty cheap anyway since they can't be repurposed for consumer PCs.
Absolutely yes, and that makes it even more important to check the entire configuration carefully before you buy / assemble your system. Officially, I recall the C612 chipset (on the Z440 anyhow) being limited to registered ECC memory only.
The HP Workstations tend to be pedantic due to built-in BIOS configuration checks during startup. Normally the BIOS will trigger an error code for incorrect memory configuration when modules are out of spec (5 beeps in the Z440).
I have only ever tested registered ECC in this system when paired with Haswell/Broadwell Xeons. But from posts that I read online it appears that there is more leniency with the Z440 given some unofficial support for Intel i7 processors like the i7-6900K.
(e.g.
forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/hp-z440-workstation-economically-viable-home-pc.1261856/
forums.tomshardware.com/threads/hp-z440-server-pc-best-cpu.3718926/ ).
Pending end use, the Z440 remains good bang for buck for both server and gaming applications.
@@racerrrz Yeah, some boards are super picky with RAM and one should indeed check manufacturer site for list of verified modules for best compatibility. Actually now with DDR5 there's even greater difference between REG/Unbuffered sticks in that they are physically keyed differently so that you literally can't even fit normal sticks in a server, or server sticks in consumer board.
@@ruojautuma1 If anything that is a good thing - it would save some headache if the RAM slots were redesigned to better reflect the optimal configuration for the system. But that would still not help to prevent people from buying the incorrect modules for a given system - hence careful checking being needed. DDR5 seems a while off for these workstations - or at least I am glad I don't need to be hunting for large amounts of DDR5 ECC server RAM given their prices. 64GB DDR4 2400MHz = ~$100 USD, 64GB DDR5 4800MHz = ~$200 USD. Wait, that actually makes the DDR4 memory look expensive.lol.
Work on your Network setup to get 10gb transfer rates. I am using the LSI 9211-8i and LSI 9311-8i HSA which work okay but do get hot so I needed to add a 10mm x 30mm fan on top of the HBA heatsink to keep it cool. its plug-n-play with windows 10 & 11.
Your message got hit by a TH-cam spam filter, I only caught on to it now, sorry (no idea why...)! I did a heap of trial and error tests but I never got much more than 8Gbps on iPerf3. I did end up testing a transfer from RAID 0 (Asus Hyper M.2 V2) on my Z840 to RAID 0 on the Z440 (HP Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro), but it still capped out at 1.9Gbps - likely due to the file transfer - (MPEG video) - and the highest speeds I have seen for file transfers has been ~4.3Gbps.
I am certain there are more settings that could speed it up, but for the time being I can load the connection with multiple transfers and still retain solid speeds. I can still work on multiplexing both 10GbE ports - but for the time being I got rid of the annoying 1GbE speed limit which has been enough for me.
Do a z480 mobo man, you have so much potential in the fractal 7xl
The Z840 case swap into the Fractal Define 7XL is basically a right of passage at this point. I have obtained everything that is needed for this case swap - all I need is a solid block of time to film the process (a case swap seems to take 3x longer when filming lol). I can confirm that I have actually powered the Z840 motherboard outside it's case without it's original PSU but I haven't yet committed to the swap: th-cam.com/video/Rsr_zxOg6K8/w-d-xo.html
Great stuff! Again gave me direction to upgrade and build a great budget friendly network of my favs the "old" HP workstations. Out with the HP elite 8000 stuff and in with the new to me 3rd gen Z workstations :) I can upgrade and replace 5 aging machines to newer capable machines and upgrade my network for less then the cost of a new RTX 4090 founders GPU :)
Hi. At the price point for the Z440 they really are hard to beat right now. And compared to the RTX 4090 you could buy a fleet of Z440s for the same $s. The Z240 is also a great performer for slightly less. It just depends on the number of PCIe slots that you require. I have my Z440 fully loaded and yet I may still require more PCIe functionality (I only have 2x empty sata ports on the mobo and I could load another ~8 HDDs and several SSDs if I went overboard - this case is so spacious lol).
The other machines that are of good value are the Lenovo workstations - like the P520. I am yet to see them sell for less than $800 USD here in NZ, but they are quite powerful for the price point. HP's equivalent machines would be the Z4 G4 and Z6 G4. Their prices are also gradually coming down.
Yes, the z240 ssf motherboard is really cramped and limited even in a new case, I am going to stick to the z240 tower motherboards as stuff is better placed, z240's will serve me fine for simple gaming/ workstations on the network, the z440 is wayy better for all sorts of stuff. I cannot wait to upgrade mine. This NAS build is fantastic! Keep it up! I am just struggling right now with HP bios settings and stuff, but will figure it out :) @@racerrrz
Sorry I overlooked your reply here. The Z240 is a solid option but my only complain with them is that they can only handle a limited number of PCIe expansion cards. They can do one thing really well, just not everything.
My Z440 NAS is still working away well. I am refining the system further by testing NVMe cache, SSD cache, and I just added two more 10TB drives and I am hoping to test a RAID 5 setup for transfer speed improvements. I'll have to do a follow-up video on refinements if I manage to optimize some good adjustments on it.
If you had questions on the BIOS feel free to ask. Most of the BIOS settings should be fine by default, unless you wanted specific features etc.
@@racerrrz I have found out if I stick with the z240 tower version and not sff , I can add an extra PCIe x1 slot with hp adapter 696971-001 to the bottom of the motherboard. Seems to work good for something like a Wifi adapter. Its not a x16 slot but better then nothing :) I am keeping an eye on z840's prices also. I hope you can keep the channel going, I know stuff is not cheap , I am crossing fingers we can get into a position to support you more ... Thank you again for your content :)
@@JordanGospelMinistryInc-go8qp Nice! I didn't discover that feature - or rather I didn't read into it. I noticed the data port on the lower right of the tower z240 board but I never read into it.
The PCI riser board is available and it's cheap, and it would add a full length PCI mechanical slot with x1 electrical connectivity. So it would run an older PCI card like a Wifi card or serial adapter. If only it could handle more lanes! I presume the M.2 NVMe slot will be using the chipset's bandwidth (being x4 electrically connected).
The Z840 prices have started to drop, but I feel like they have hit a plateau. Keep an eye out for the newer architecture. The HP Z4 G4 and Z6 G4 are often cheaper than the Z840 and they deliver better performance given the newer CPU architecture and faster RAM, minus the Z840's PSU and PCIe grunt.
And yes, inflation is really doing on number on everyone. Spare cash covers those interest rates!
Thank you for the support! In the TH-cam world likes and comments are the currency that's needed, so you are adding value! Thanks.
I need to get some videos out on the Z8 G4 - CPU fitment guide and CPU buying guide would be a great place to start. I also want to do a Z800 vs Z820, vs Z840 vs Z8 G4 video! But the older workstations are getting rare now. If only I had a Z8 G5 for review - I would be able to make a really clickbait thumbnail lol.
12:15 - Will the system refuse to boot if you don't have the power LED and HDD LED front panel wires hooked up?
I just swapped my HP Z440 motherboard and stuff into a Fractal Design Pop XL, and it will start up, fans will spin, it will be on for like 5-7 seconds, and then it just shuts off and refuses to start again if the power switch is pressed. I have to flip the switch on the PSU off and back to on to get it to start again, spin up fans, be on for like 5-7 seconds, wash, rinse, repeat.
I have all 8 memory modules populated and I have the pins jumped using jumpers so it will work even without the fan shroud.
Hi. From what you are describing there could be a number of things that cause this issue. I had the same thing with my Z8 G4 initially and you need to go back to bare bones to figure out what is causing the issue.
HP workstations run a hardware check before launching the BIOS - and it sounds like your machine is unhappy with the hardware configuration and it's terminating the boot operation before reaching the BIOS. Ideally you need to return to 1 RAM module and a basic GPU - something like a Quadro K420 connected with a DVI cable to a DVI capable monitor (I have found that HDMI or DP ports tend to not work when the system is in this boot state). If the system manages to boot, you can now add in more RAM - but first go for 4 modules. If it starts doing it's boot loop again you will be able to isolate where the problem is (bad memory module?).
At a best guess, it's not the lack of a HDD light or Power light but rather the memory jumper and 8 RAM modules that is causing the error. I am working on a DIY fix for the memory boot error for the Z440. From what I have read the memory jumper does remove the error message but it does not provide the correct signals to the motherboard which can cause boot issues (likely not all motherboards have the same configuration because for some it works and for others there are issues - you'll notice that in the comments for the memory jumper TH-cam video).
@racerrrz So update, I was a dummy and forgot to make space for the reset button on the motherboard's rear I/O so my makeshift I/O shield was holding the reset button down everytime I tried to power up causing the system to refuse to boot. Once I made space for it, so it was no longer be pressed, my system boots and posts! IT'S ALIVE!!!! MUHahahahhahahahaha!
@@theexile4694 That's awesome! Haha don't you love it when it's something simple like that! That's not something I would have predicted, well done for figuring that out! The rear I/O plate is tricky to sort but you can get them on Amazon etc. - I added mine in after assembly - there were none on Amazon/Ebay/AliExpress when I build the system but shortly after they popped up on market places. Enjoy your Z440 in it's new home!
@racerrrz I am big sad because I wanted to play Helldiver 2 on it and the system just can't handle the CPU demands. For Helldivers 2 and some of the other modern titles you need a Skylake generation Xeon part and this system just doesn't support. It only supports Haswell and Broadwell Xeons. Big sad.😥 OH well. It can still play plenty of other titles and works great. Thanks for the replies and video, especially the wiring part for the front panel stuff.
I'm planning to case swap my z440 to iONZ KZ-30E XL E-ATX case and I wonder if I can keep the original HP 700W platinum PSU it came with
The original PSU would work relatively well given the power efficiency that comes with it. I opted for a ATX PSU so that I could sell the Z440 again.
I quickly checked fitment, the Z440 PSU has non-standard mounting screw locations which by my eye would only allow 1 screw to be fitted. The PSU is also quite bulky and as an example I can't fit it into the Cooler Master MB500 mid tower case (there is a narrow PSU fitment slot). I suspect the PSU may fit in the Define 7XL due to the open front fitment design, but again with the issue of screw fitment. Creating a custom mounting plate from sheet metal or plastic could solve that.
Actually, here are a couple of pics for reference. With the right case it can be made to work:
imgbox.com/QgchmVXp
imgbox.com/2qVVgbXd
How did you have the storage configured in TrueNAS btw? That transfer rate looks like no striping.
Feeling motivated to try ZFS and have super fast storage pool, I just pulled the trigger on 4 x 2TB NVMe drives. I was doing some reading and it seems like my options would be to either configure them as single vdev in raidz1 which would give me parity but no striping, or each as their own vdev within one pool which would give me striping but no redundancy. I'm thinking I might go with performance and just have external backups of important data in case one of the NVMe ever happens to fail. Could be couple of weeks before all parts arrive and I have time to set things up, but I'm eagerly expecting that I should be able to saturate my 10GbE link between workstation and server.
So far it's just individual drives connected through the H240 HBA but without a RAID configuration in TrueNAS Core. I need to transfer data across to larger drives to clean up the accumulation of data across several smaller drives (mostly 2TBs and 4TBs). It gets messy when you try to manage on small drives for a long time. If you can go with RAIDZ1 that would be ideal - but it's really only worth it if you need the redundancy for critical data. If you can go with external backups that's likely the ideal. I prefer to not keep my drives running 24/7 - unless it's a lower power draw system that's intended to be a server. This Z440 is more like external backup in my case.
Now is a good time to buy with Black Friday sales, although it was rather lackluster here in NZ for me. Nothing well priced. 4x 2TB NVMes in RAID 0 is great. I do all my editing from my RAID 0 pool and it never misses a beat (this being my Win 10 software RAID). Speeds are quite variable though. My highest speed to date is 12000MB/s read, 10000MB/s write - but on average it's closer to 8000/6000MB/s.
With a couple more 10TBs I'll set up a RAID 5 for critical data. I do need to test the effect of parity on transfer speeds since I have tested NVMe and SSD cache without speed improvement over my 10GbE network. I also tested a RAID 0 NVMe pool (2x 1TB 980s) but also didn't seem to net higher speeds - but I was transferring from a 16TB Iron Wolf within my Z840. I'll eventuality test NVMe RAID 0 to NVMe RAID 0 over the 10GbE connection. That better give me at least 6Gpbs lol.
@@racerrrz I would expect you should be able to exceed 6Gbps speeds. If not by default, then at least by tuning Samba configs. I noticed some improvement at least in writes over network after setting things like write cache size, socket buffer size, aio etc in smb configs. Anyway it's unlikely you'll ever reach 100% network saturation with just single connection, but I think you should be able to get pretty close with some tuning. The same phenomenon can be seen when benchmarking connection with iperf2 (supports multiple connections) vs iperf3 (single connection) where it's much harder to reach same speeds with iperf3 without tuning.
@@ruojautuma1 I have tried nearly everything I could think of, but as soon as a HDD is involved in the transfer I seem to not see transfer speeds greater than that HDD's write limit. Activating jumbo packets helped a little, mostly in improving iPerf3 speeds (~6Gbps was my average). I need to spend more time to improve those speeds because transferring a few TB still takes way too long. I need to test a RAID 0 NVMe pool to a RAID 0 NVMe pool via 10GbE. If that fails to give decent speeds there has to be some serious settings to tweak to get rid of what ever my speed limiter is. I'll see if I can get more speed from your suggestions also (testing write cache size, socket buffer size, aio etc in smb configs).
@@racerrrz Here's what I appended under global in /etc/samba/smb.conf in my Debian server:
socket options = TCP_NODELAY SO_RCVBUF=65536 SO_SNDBUF=65536
write cache size = 262144
getwd cache = yes
use sendfile = yes
min receivefile size = 16384
aio read size = 16384
aio write size = 16384
aio write behind = true
Out of curiosity: what do you get if you do: iperf3 -w 4M -l 1M
I was getting up to 9.91Gbps fairly consistently.
Sorry I am super slow here, I missed this message! I just checked on my system (Z8 G4 as client in Win 10, Z440 as TrueNAS server, with your buffer size and length settings - so [-w 4M -l 1M]): 8.35 GBytes 7.17 Gbits/sec . With more refinement of the transfer settings the speeds may climb up closer to 10 Gbps.
At least it was a little bit faster than the default iperf3 speeds (5.93 GBytes 5.09 Gbits/sec), but still not as fast as your system's 9.91Gbps!
I will add, my hardware is now in the Z8 G4 with a new Win 10 OS, which means my speeds are not being set by the client hardware at least lol. I figured my Z840 might just be a little slow but no change with the same hardware loaded into a Z8 G4 (well same 10GbE card at least - new system).
i have problem with front usb 2.0. safely remove usb is grayed out
Hi there. Is this issue on your Z440 after a case swap? I presume you are in Windows 10. What device are you plugging into the USB 2.0 ports? Normally the option to safely remove a drive is only present for flash media (i.e. a USB flash drive) - HDDs /SSDs / NVMes tend to not have this option because they are not classified as removable storage.
14:24 I'm a little confused about the CPU cooler adapter cable, i didn't need one fitting a Noctua NH-U9S in my Z440?
The HP Z440 has a proprietary 6-pin CPU fan header (seen at 9:35 also) and the adapter cable allows a normal 4-pin PWM fan - like the Noctua NH-U9S to connect without any boot errors.
Where on the motherboard did you plug in your NH-U9S fan connector? A case like the Fractal Define 7XL has the Nexus fan hub which would help with connecting a CPU fan but the BIOS will complain if there is no 6-pin CPU fan header connected.
There is a good guide on the fan header issue here also: michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2021-08-28-silent-hp-z440-workstation/
@@racerrrz I just plugged the 4-pin for the NH-U9S into the 6-pin CPU header on the motherboard, as I saw in Coalition Gaming Z440 case swap video.
No boot errors, that I've seen.
I used the Michael Stapelberg guide, when replacing the stock Z440 case fans with 92mm Pure Wings 2 fans.
@@bobsonuk That's cool, I didn't see that Coalition Gaming did a Z440 case swap - or at least when I did a TH-cam search his case swap didn't come up. The joys of TH-cam search optimisation (his video title doesn't have Z440 in it, that might be why).
Anyhow, that's cool. I had in mind that the CPU pinouts were inverted from normal 4-pins (the proprietary HP thing to do), and rechecking it it appears to be the case for the Z620 CPU fan ( www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/1394500888_ywsnpxtr_z620_pinout2-jpg.162642/ ), but maybe not for the Z440. This is the challenge when wire pinouts aren't readily published by the manufacturer. What is curious is that pin 5 and pin 6 of the Z440's 6-pin CPU fan plug (so the pins not used on your system now) are all bridged with Pin 1 - which is the ground. I would have expected a BIOS error from not grounding those pins - but clearly not!
I am looking at a Z440 memory fan shroud fix so that 8 RAM modules can be run without the Fan shroud (something that a case swap doesn't support). I got a memory shroud that will be used in the name of science lol.
Will the HP z440 motherboard fit in the Fractal Define 5 ?
Looking at the case design I am not 100% certain that it would fit. The right hand side and bottom of the motherboard mounting appears to be recessed which may prevent the Z440's larger than ATX motherboard from fitting correctly. I like the case's design so it would be cool to see if it works.
Wich would you choose between the 2697A V4 or the 2699 V4?
Thanks
Neverminded, I just saw the end of the video :P
thanks gain
Hi there. Sorry I am a little slow to respond. Adding to what was in the video, I still think the E5-2697A V4 or E5-2697 V4 would be the best value given their higher turbo clock speed. The E5-2696 V4 is also a solid CPU if you wanted cores (basically the same as the E5-2699 V4 but slightly cheaper).
Nice. What did you plan on using your system for? I won't mind a E5-2699 V4 - the added cores could be useful if it's more of a NAS /Proxmox Server build.
@@racerrrz I plan to use it mainly for 3d CAD work, rendering and multitasking with various 3d & Illstation software. In my spare Time I will alos do a bit of gaming, but it's not it'S first role since I don't game a lot.
@@TheGuillohm Nice. I'd definitely recommend the E5-2697A V4 for the added turbo clock speed. Many processes within the applications wind up using only one core. As much as I appreciate having ample cores I really don't like my system lagging out from one core having to carry large software loads.
what form factor is the z440 motherboard? is it EATX or regular ATX?
That's a good question. I have not measured the board just yet, but I would place it closer to ATX than E-ATX - despite it having 8 memory slots.
I have a motherboard just sitting here (future video), so here goes:
It measures at: 32cm x 26 cm or 12.6" x 10.2" inches which places it just larger than ATX which is generally 12" by 9.6" inches.
@@racerrrz does this mean any ATX case will fit it in or not? thank you for the quick reply btw
I would like to think any ATX case will fit it but certain Mid Tower cases that are a bit cramped may have clearance issues due to the Z440 being slightly large than expected for ATX. Looking at some of the smaller ATX case designs, like the Lian Li O11 AIR MINI, I suspect it would still fit by having some overhang into your cable routing area.
As an example: lian-li.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/o11-air-mini-so6-01_a.jpg - the Z440 would sit slightly longer and wider than ATX on the diagram.
No worries - my replies are generally slow - unless I am active on TH-cam when you message - then I'll be fast.
@@racerrrz I'm thinking of buying a Kolink observatory due to its cheap price and amount of fans with not so shabby thermals, do you have a discord server by chance? I'd love to join it if you do :)
@@Noone-ii4kv Nice, the Kolink observatory looks decent and it's good that it supports E-ATX - that gives you a bit more room to expand.
I have created a Discord server but I am really infrequent with my Discord use. I need to step it up!
discord.gg/QmpMeE7Xfb
You looking to sell the z440 case mines battered 😅
Ah nooo, what happened to your one? I planned to get a new motherboard for it so I could on-sell it again, but I've been lazy with it and it's just standing around - empty - with a good PSU and all auxiliaries...lol. I will get around to getting a new board into it eventually so some else can enjoy it again. I presume shipping cost for a empty case will be more than the case is worth. You might get lucky with bare bones system on used sites like ebay - pending where you reside anyhow. I am in NZ btw.
u need a better camera
Thank you for the feedback. For which part of the video? Likely all of it could do with better quality, sorry about that.
I managed to tweak my Logitech Brio 4k webcam green screen footage to get closer to 60fps after this video (I believe it was 30FPS with some odd stutter glitch effect introduced by either the NVIDIA Broadcast software or the USB 3.0 port - not intended).
I use a GoPro Hero 10 for the action shots but it really doesn't like near focus shots and yields out of focus content often.
My main camera is a Nikon D5600 which is far from ideal for video work but it's what I have for now. Better lighting has helped to improve the quality a bunch in my newer videos.
I learned nothing from this video. If you are going to show a how to video, maybe show the how to? Oh, "more on this later".
Hi there. I am sorry to hear you found no benefit from this video. The video provides a detailed guide for how to case-swap a Z440 into a new case and includes everything required to complete the swap - including the wire pinouts. If there was something that I missed feel free to point it out so I can take it into consideration for future guide videos. I aimed to create the most detailed Z440 case swap guide on the internet but it's good to know that my efforts can still be improved on.