All of the manufacturers should bring back their 2 Stroke Models of yesteryear! All they have to do is update the suspension components and leave everything else the same and they’d sell everything they could make!
I’m honestly shocked Suzuki hasn’t done so already. Their bikes were great and they haven’t done anything to their 4-Pukes. Having said that, it’s pretty impressive what the Twisted Tea teams manage to do with 10 year old bikes!
_"All they have to do is update the suspension components and leave everything else the same"_ Update the suspension, brakes, plastics, all on a modern frame --- I'll buy that.
My CR500 is still a competitive machine. It still lights up as it did when it was new in 1999. I still love it, even though it still has a genuine desire to kill me. ;-)
The Honda was always better suited for the track and the KX shined in the desert. Since I live in the desert the KX has always been my first choice and it performed flawlessly for many many years😊
@@shonbratton1906 if I recall the 89 was the last year the KX had conventional forks. I remember people actually liked the 89 forks better than the inverted forks that followed. They also bumped them up to 46mm from 43mm that year. I also upgraded my 87kx500 to these forks and they worked very well.
Short wheelbase Isn't for straight road \ tracks. These Are CIRCLE track bikes. Lap after Lap riding where you can tune for the same set of different corners.
@@shonbratton1906 They've been tuned by the designer, to ride round and round in circles. Lap after Lap riding. They're circle track bikes. Half throttle speed is for circle tracks. You bought a circle \ corners bike and misused it. You should have bought the trail bike instead.
@@jak5008 cause those people couldn't educate themselves to a higher-up level. They wanted to say with the old technology. Obviously the newer forks WERE way better. Those old-fashioned people weren't even cornering anymore back then. They used idiot ruts in corners. Ruts turn corners into straight roads. If you use cornering burms, there's NO reason to mid mount the engine. Motocross and supercross is just a straight line track from start to finish, now. Tuning and corners were eliminated many decades ago.
The bikes were designed for different venues. If you were around in the early 90’s you know the slower revving KX mill wrapped into the more stable chassis was meant mainly for the desert. The quicker revving CR mill wrapped in the sharp turning chassis was meant strictly for MX. The KX could compete only on the larger outdoor tracks. Todays modern 4 strokes are faster on the track… but the 2 stroke is definitely a “man’s” bike.
Raced the CR 500 for years. First one was the 450 in 81. Not very good. The 500 water cooled bikes were great. Pro Circuit engines gave them more power and made them easier to ride. They were also reliable. I was also lucky enough to be a test rider for Sudco. The American arm of Showa. That was later on working on the 89 forks. They were a little harsh the way they first were set up. You only needed 3rd and 4th gears on most tracks. I also had the opportunity to ride both Kawasaki and Honda’s factory 500s. Factory riders just happen to be my neighbors when they were on the east coast. The stock machines were not even in the same power range. The factory Kawasaki usually required a new piston after each national it was ported so hot. But boy were they fun.
I've owned both and really enjoy riding big bore 2T's. The honda is well built and kawi is not, it took twice as much work keeping the KX in working condition. After fitting ohlins suspension and electric start my CR5 is a real pleasure to ride, it's reliable, cheap to service. I had a new CRF450 and sold it as the engine braking sucked the enjoyment out of riding. Every time I close the throttle is like someone jumping on the rear brake, too much time on two strokes!!
100% agree. I've owned them all. CR500 is just what it should be, easy to work on and tough as an anvil. Years ago I I put 50,000 miles on a CR500 all on dirt.
KX500 is a pussy to own and ride. They get along Ok and the most reliable bike I've ever owned and every thing mechanical on the bike is a credit to Kawasaki. First new one in '97 off the floor. Still got my '04 bought it new. These guys ride the old school bikes for a day on the track and think they know it all. I have a CR500R in the shed too . 2001. never clicked into gear.
I have a 93 KX500 that I am going to freshen up and a restored 97 CR500. I look forward to riding them back to back. Awesome video of these 2 bikes, loved it
It appeared the KX was geared too low for that track. Going up a tooth on the counter sprocket would have definitely mellowed out the power delivery. It would pull longer and space out the shift points. Also hook up better. Huge improvement for 10 minute mod. The power delivery feel would then better match the Dyno.
@Steve D Oh you must be referring to Sean Collier. Yes he won races both at Glen Helen and Mammoth on his father's kx500. It was amazing that he also beat out modern bikes. I think he is partly responsible for the open 2-stroke being popular again.
@Steve D yeah, the manufacturer will go along with what the idiots say to them. The manufacturer is selling to thousands of idiots. As a result, the idiots break their bones and learn the hard way. Mcgrath detuned the product to suit himself.
60hp for a 450 is manufacture claimed horsepower at the crank. These 500s are making true 54 and 58 at the REAR WHEEL! SO these bikes are making more HP than modern 450s.
@@vaughanhodgson No stock 450 is pushing 60hp at the wheel. The videos on youtube never show live dyno results, just state it, which is dodgy. Also, all dynos read differently, so a 500cc 2 stroke might make 65hp on those dynos, if its showing 60hp for a 450. Ken Kaplin showed live 450 dynos results between 49-52hp at the wheel. Stock 500s at around 52 and tuned 500s considerably more.
@@mxcoolman yea your right different dynos different results. But also hes super bias he has the lowest readings for the 450s on youtube.would love to see a stock vs stock live comparison. Obviously one can get alot of power out of a bike with tweaking the engine. A factory 250f makes as much power as a stock 450 apparently
@@vaughanhodgson He also has some of the lowest results for Cr500s. It's harder to extract more power out of a 450....compared to a 500cc 2 stroke. Most factory bikes don't really make anymore peak HP than stock....but they are tuned and developed for better more linear power and torque. Less power usually equals better lap times. As for 250f motors, they are certainly tuned to rev out faster and higher and to make some more HP.
Would love to see these bikes matched up against their modern counterparts from the respective manufacturers. Although the technology is archaic by comparison I have no doubt they'd hold their own. There's nothing that can get your heart racing like a handful of throttle on a 500 2-stroke!
60 hp on a dirt bike and all that torque is completely insane. I wish I had the opportunity to ride one although there is no way I could ride it to a quarter of it's potential.
Like Kawasaki makes a 250cc four stroke with almost 50 hp now. People are tuning them and getting like 61. Kawasaki makes crazy good engines. Who would have thought a 250cc four stroke could make almost as much power as a 500.
@@4touchdowns1game29 There isnt a 250 4-stroke anywhere making near those numbers. It simply can't move enough air. Cut you numbers in half to be more realistic.
I remember watching Brad Lackey win the superbikers race in California on a KX500. Even for him, you could tell that bike was a handful. That was in 1982 on wide world of sports on a Saturday afternoon.
OMG! I raced a 1994 CR500 in 1995, right down to the Factory Connection suspension! I almost killed myself at Budd's Creek (where Doug Henry broke his back). That was way too much bike for me. Heck, the 1994 CR250 was super punchy. Honda engines dominated the mid 90s (suspension was another issue 😄). Good times. Thanks for the memories.
The differences between dyno curve and what the riders perceived is due to rear tire slippage. The KX500 was spending more time with the rear tire not hooked up to the track.
I had an 84 CR 500 and went up one tooth on the countershaft. It would do over 90 and when jumping it would drag both frame rails on landing with the heavy spring installed. You could pull the front end up in a turn and ride out on the rear wheel. It would rip the bars out of your hands if you weren't careful. Most fun I ever had not between the sheets.
The glory days of motocross. Used to race a KX500 back in the day and miraculously lived to tell the tale. There will never be another bike like the 500 2t, ever. Had to know the bikes on a personal level, after every ride I went through and re-torqued all the bolts that vibrated loose on the track. Insane power delivery. Modern 450s are nice and deliver smooth power bands but nothing has ever got my heart pumping like the old 500 did all those years ago.
But a fully modded CR500 makes over 70 HP mine did , nothing could touch it in the desert or at Glamis with a paddle. Pro Circuit did my porting and head mods and I had the 1st ever FMF Gold pipe. The power and sound compared to stock was crazy.
It was so much fun. I had to jump off the back tailgate of my pick up or a gas can to crank up my YZ 490. It had drum brakes and two speeds. Oh I’m going to die and sitting still. If those drum brakes got good and wet, you would find yourself making a new trail through whatever was in front of you. I sold it because I thought it would kill us. I would give anything to have it back.
I like when they put people on these that are confident 4 stroke riders but have never ridden a big bore 2 stroke. I like hearing their pre ride assumptions and post ride opinions.
Honda started detuning the CR500 from around 1987 onwards , the 85 and 86 models had more HP and also were much harder to control , from 87 onwards Honda started to realize that making the power more manageable was the key to getting the power to the ground and thus faster lap times . Kawasaki must also have been watching closely at what Honda was up to as they basically did precisely the same thing around 88 - 89 !
Would love to see these brought back and modernized, especially with fuel injection being doable on 2 strokes now. 75 hp would be doable, and absolutely wild to ride on
That's Crazy. Why buy something completely different? You've never done any research into motocross bikes. Cool has a 1 year time limit. Its just OLD now.
I've ridden both machines in stock form in the past (I'm almost 50) The Cr was a bar fight where the Kx was a smooth ride. I still prefer a bare knuckle brawl.
I had an '04 KX500 that I bought new, because it was the last year of them. And yeah, it was very stable at high speed on somewhat rough fields. I remember thinking it sort of felt like a 500cc KDX or something, very smooth power, but a whole lot of it!
If everyone who is all pro smokers now, was pro smokers THEN, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Literally 10s of people bought the 500s when they were for sale. It's OUR fault they stopped selling them.
I had an '04 KX500 that I bought new. Man I wish I had never sold it! But at the time, it was hard to find enough room to run that bike, and it wasn't any good on the tighter woods trails, kept fouling the plug unless it was being run hard ALL the time. It needed a LOT of space, like in the desert or some other wide open land. Still wish I would have kept it though. That bike would wear you out quick though, the vibration alone was enough to tire out your hands.
And yet is not really any faster in real life riding. The modern 450F s WORLDS faster than a 500 2 stroke... Not that I''m a fan of the 4 stroke complexity and weight...
@@audikris define faster? Faster lap time because of a better chassis and more rider friendly? Yes! A CR500 makes so much more real world power than a 450! 30% more torque at lower RPM....they are animals compared to modern 450s. I own both and there really isn't any comparison in the muscle department. It would be interesting to have a comparison of a 2022 500Af against a 2022 CRF 450. I think the result would show how good that CR500 really is.
@@mxcoolman i think most people have a hard time holding on to the 500s for a moto. A lot of power to wrestle and they weren't counterbalanced so the vibes can be tough. Ill take a smoker any day over a 450 tho. More fun.
It all depends on the rider. A pro on a 125 would whip a novice on any bike of their choice. And a pro on a 500 would whip any novice on any bike of their choice.
I have owned both bikes. They are different but that’s what makes them both worth owning. There is nothing like getting on a bike that wants to hurt you. But it’s the thrill of balancing the line between hurting yourself and getting all you can out of them that makes it worth riding.
Well lets go back to 1993 and prior I think someone forgot to tell Mike Kiedrowski, Jeff Ward and Ron Lechien with his legendary 1988 Motocross des nations ride the CR500 was a better motorcycle. Are we apples for apples here? 1993 was when the AMA discontinued the 500cc motocross class and the KX dominated that year with Mike LaRocco prevailing as 500cc national champion. Not many changes came after that to either bike until discontinued, Imagine if they kept evolving. The KX 500 had very forgiving handling and un matched high speed stability, you had to rail turns and pivot in tight turns, it would turn pretty good. Where as the CR 500 Honda could turn inside the KX and made it feel like a clear advantage, but the Honda was known for head shake and did not have the high speed stability the KX was gifted with as the KX was king of the desert and Baja. It may depend what track you are racing on that would make the decision which motorcycle is better. I would rather do 100+ MPH on a KX500 everywhere than a CR 500 Honda. Race history speaks for it's self and not to forget, don't compare the KX to the RC500 factory bikes only the chosen few had those works of art.
Have had 4 KX500s. Beast. Easy 3rd gear starts. KIPS equipped and luggable but insanely fast. However my CRF450 was WAY more fun, rideable, and MUCH faster.
I think that the reason the power delivery confused the riders was maybe about the total power on the kawi means it might be spinning the rear wheel alot so it revs up faster
It appears the KX would have benefited going up a tooth on the counter sprocket. Also i have yet to see a rear wheel dyno of a stock modern 450 hitting 60HP. Are you comparing Apple's to Apple's? I'm sure there would be a lot of interest if you did a video on just the rear wheel dyno of these 2 bikes along with a couple of modern 450's to compare.
I had wanted to write the same comment. Ken Kaplan has had all of them on his Dyno and the 450s have less HP at the wheel then the 500s. A completely bone stock CR500 from the 90s has the same as the special edition 450 Honda. Only adding a pipe gives you more. However obviously nobody argues if that is of any actual use, Antonio cairoli won a number of world titles on a 350 and back in the day the 250s were often faster than the 500d
@@petergriffin4629 I've also been following Ken. Especially since he got that dyno. He's been putting out some excellent content. I agree for the most part. In 88 I bought a new kx500 and a buddy bought the 250. In a drag race we were fairly even. It wasn't till the 500 hit 4th and 5th that it pulled a couple of bike lengths. The real difference was when we hit the long loose desert hill climbs. The 250 would have to down shift then grind to a stop to where the 500 would pull 3rd all the way to the top. The 500 was the ultimate bike for that type of riding. One of the few places to where you could actually use all of its power. I still have that bike today😊
Rode both and loved them. I liked the KX as a woods bike and hill climber. CR would out turn the KX but that was the only plus of the CR over the KX in my humble opinion.
He's not telling you the horsepower comparison against four strokes correctly that 58 horsepower at the KX makes was at the wheel the 60 horsepower the four strokes make was that the crank
@@dennismillus4581 Thats a long, long way from having 25 years of factory development. Throwing a tuned old motor in a modern frame is something any half decent mechanic can do. Remember "performance" single 4t's from back then would usually make ~30-40hp if you were lucky from a 600 weighing at least 200kg. Now they're knocking on 70hp from a 450 thats half the weight. Even just the gains in materials and precision of fuel injection/ignition would make a massive difference to the design if it was ground up. Thats ignoring all the paths that were never followed due to a lack of reliable technology like direct injection, supercharging, variable exhaust sizes and so on. There are plenty of what-ifs around 2t development that got scuppered thanks to greed.
@@siraff4461 YES, you nailed it! Even when 2-strokes were the only MX bikes available, the OEM's never devoted the R&D to the 500 Class. 125 and 250cc bikes got all of the good stuff every other year with almost complete redesigns. The 500's were on a 4-5 year schedule of redesign. 500's mostly got new graphics and more or less flywheel weight.
@@tomfoolery8829 It always made me wonder why. Maybe there just wasn't a lot to be gained from the massive amount of extra power they could have made? I always wondered why they didn't do a 500 twin too. 250 tech and revs with double the capacity. I think the makers had largely given up on the 500's by the 80's. They kept throwing on the basic stuff into the 90's but most of that was just recycled 250 tech just because it was there and easy to use. Even an alloy framed 500 from the factory would have been a big difference. When you look at more modern designs like the Rotax e-tec where an 800 twin is making 160hp in an application which can be kept flat out for minutes at a time it makes you wonder what a real, modern 2t bike could do. Oh and that 800 twin weighs less than the old CR500 engine too...
Used to have Maico 400s back in the 70s (old dude) it would be marvelous to be young enough to ride a 500cd 2 stroke with a modern frame and suspension setup.
The KX was wonderful in the desert, when I didn’t have to turn much. Big-time power. The CR was wayyyy better on an MX track, because it could turn circles under the KX. There might have been a little headshake, but the trade off was worth it. CR- better MX-er. KX- better desert sled.
2024 and we don’t have the greatest 500cc bikes in current production makes no sense! What is going on in the world!! You make it we buy it! End of story.
Was not the case in the day on these 500. Ppl complained of to much power to the point these bikes were tamed down to such a flat power curve towards the end claiming power throughout better than overall power. Another words kinda tuned the 2t outta them to try and open up more sales. The end of the 500 ama mx class was the breaking straw for all the 500s. Look into the mid 80s for the real 500 heavy hitters. Though the suspensions would need updated much like these received.
The CR500 has the most wins of any bike.. it's the most Versatile bike. It's the most desired bike. The CR500 can easily beat today's 450 4pukes. The 500cc two strokes are more popular and desired today than ever before....
The kx500 also dominated the desert for many years, winning Baja and numerous other races. I bet it would still be competitive today if team green was still racing them.
Everyone has lawn mower these days and electric is about to take over soon! All i can say bring back the 2 strokes! Fun fact i bought a 1998 yz125. Not as fast like my 450 but im loving the power band of 2 strokes! #mixinggashaulinass
I rode & raced the CR500 & the KX500 both are great bikes the Honda is just durable but the Kawasaki is much better on a track because like he said the power is smooth I faired much better on the KX500 on a track even though the bike is longer overall
500cc racing, now that was men of men racing. You had to have a set of balls so big you needed a dump truck to haul them. Not to take away from any other size riders of bikes but to race a 500….it just took a whole different mindset.
I owned both cr and kx and I liked the cr for mx and the kx for fast off road and desert. The BRC 500 on a modern ktm chase would be the one to compare to those
Desert requires a long wheelbase. You're obviously wrong. MX bikes are tune- able for circle tracks. Lap after Lap riding of the same set of corners. There's NO reason to tune for every type of corner in the Desert. Motocross and supercross bikes are only made for Lap after Lap riding for 20 minutes. Cause then you have to tune them again.
My recollection is that the 1984/85/86 CR500 were the most powerful. Then Honda started detuning it after that. Regardsless, the old adage still applies - no one has won riding a dynamometer.
@@mxcoolman - joe, I recall several early 1980's dyno readings in the 62 hp range for the CR500. You are correct in that they hit so hard, they weren't fun to ride.
Ok, I had to refresh my recollections. This is what I found in the 'net: "From 1985 through 1988 the CR500 reportedly produced 60-64hp, though by the time it was phased-out of production in 2001 its power had been mellowed out to 56hp."
@@spacejaime there just isn't any dyno result evidence, past or present to support this. They definitely hit harder. People say the cr500s were detuned, when they were infact 'tuned' to make the bike vastly improved towards the mid 90s. All 500s are cool though 😎 👌
I have ridden and own several CRs, old and new. The newer ones weren't detuned, they just had the power profile tuned to make it more broad, instead of a big sudden low-end burst that flattened off in the upper RPMs
Both badass mans bikes my uncle randy had a honda cr500 my uncle Scott had a kawasaki kx500 both raced motocross I had a Yamaha dt400 she would run with both 500s on the trails but on the track both 500s would walk away I currently have a Polaris 570 twin 2 stroke quad she's wicked 2 stroke life
there is no loser here.they are both top class machines.as for ride ability, a motocross magazine tested George Jobe's world championship 500 KX and the test rider couldn't ride it anywhere near it's potential because it didn't suit his style and couldn't get used to the power delivery yet George got the number 1 plate with it.it's the same with comparing 2 and 4 stroke that everyone seems to do.is kind of irrelevant because they are not even close to being the same.i do believe that everyone should experience the 500 as they are very special.
Basically everything I just listened to was a complete contradiction to the Dyno test. That's what matters… the seat of the pants feel. Both great bikes. Owned both in the past but the CR 500 will always be the all-around King Of Ping!!!
Match the Yammer & Suzi to that mix be a wonderful 4 bike run ❤ Honda was always better riding Kx was always more fun to work with throughout the trails ❤ved the constant shifting was actually a big downfall to a lot of riders riding the KX500 was Absolutely a FullTimeJob ❤vnit🎉BraappBrapp
You used stock gearing on KX500? I've owned both bikes and KX500 is much easier to race than the CR.I always had the same effect on each bike as your dyno told you. And the CR always had more vibration interesting. I prefer that KX500 motor over any other motor ever made
Would be cool to go further back in time and test an 81 cr450 or 84 cr500 (both lightswitches) or the Burly 88 cr500-the 89 was a kitten in comparison.
I went straight from my 98 125 to my dad's 89 cr 500 at 14 yo because I had to keep putting a top end in it every two rides. I immediatly took to it and could ride that 500 like a 125. Only weighing 135 lbs.
All of the manufacturers should bring back their 2 Stroke Models of yesteryear! All they have to do is update the suspension components and leave everything else the same and they’d sell everything they could make!
100% I have nothing else to say 🙏
Honda won't maybe Suzuki an Kawasaki will Mr. Honda was 4 stroke guy
I’m honestly shocked Suzuki hasn’t done so already. Their bikes were great and they haven’t done anything to their 4-Pukes. Having said that, it’s pretty impressive what the Twisted Tea teams manage to do with 10 year old bikes!
_"All they have to do is update the suspension components and leave everything else the same"_
Update the suspension, brakes, plastics, all on a modern frame --- I'll buy that.
@@Corteum good call on the brakes, that really wouldn’t add any cost. Steel Fames are better in my opinion so I say stay steel.
My CR500 is still a competitive machine. It still lights up as it did when it was new in 1999. I still love it, even though it still has a genuine desire to kill me. ;-)
Sounds like my wife…
Hi Sean!
Man so fortunate you have been able to keep it all these years 🫡
The Honda was always better suited for the track and the KX shined in the desert. Since I live in the desert the KX has always been my first choice and it performed flawlessly for many many years😊
.Honda had 3 different steering head rakes. My 89 cr500 needed a steering damper to ride high speed play riding. But 88 kx500 with 89 frontEnD didn’t
@@shonbratton1906 if I recall the 89 was the last year the KX had conventional forks. I remember people actually liked the 89 forks better than the inverted forks that followed. They also bumped them up to 46mm from 43mm that year. I also upgraded my 87kx500 to these forks and they worked very well.
Short wheelbase Isn't for straight road \ tracks.
These Are CIRCLE track bikes. Lap after Lap riding where you can tune for the same set of different corners.
@@shonbratton1906 They've been tuned by the designer, to ride round and round in circles.
Lap after Lap riding.
They're circle track bikes.
Half throttle speed is for circle tracks.
You bought a circle \ corners bike and misused it.
You should have bought the trail bike instead.
@@jak5008 cause those people couldn't educate themselves to a higher-up level.
They wanted to say with the old technology.
Obviously the newer forks WERE way better.
Those old-fashioned people weren't even cornering anymore back then. They used idiot ruts in corners.
Ruts turn corners into straight roads.
If you use cornering burms, there's NO reason to mid mount the engine.
Motocross and supercross is just a straight line track from start to finish, now.
Tuning and corners were eliminated many decades ago.
The KX500 from 1988 onwards and the CR500 from 1989 onwards - are arguably the greatest motocross bikes ever produced.
You can tell on the launch that these guys are 4-stroke riders at heart........great bikes and a great video.
The bikes were designed for different venues. If you were around in the early 90’s you know the slower revving KX mill wrapped into the more stable chassis was meant mainly for the desert. The quicker revving CR mill wrapped in the sharp turning chassis was meant strictly for MX. The KX could compete only on the larger outdoor tracks. Todays modern 4 strokes are faster on the track… but the 2 stroke is definitely a “man’s” bike.
Raced the CR 500 for years. First one was the 450 in 81. Not very good. The 500 water cooled bikes were great. Pro Circuit engines gave them more power and made them easier to ride. They were also reliable. I was also lucky enough to be a test rider for Sudco. The American arm of Showa. That was later on working on the 89 forks. They were a little harsh the way they first were set up. You only needed 3rd and 4th gears on most tracks. I also had the opportunity to ride both Kawasaki and Honda’s factory 500s. Factory riders just happen to be my neighbors when they were on the east coast. The stock machines were not even in the same power range. The factory Kawasaki usually required a new piston after each national it was ported so hot. But boy were they fun.
I've owned both and really enjoy riding big bore 2T's. The honda is well built and kawi is not, it took twice as much work keeping the KX in working condition. After fitting ohlins suspension and electric start my CR5 is a real pleasure to ride, it's reliable, cheap to service. I had a new CRF450 and sold it as the engine braking sucked the enjoyment out of riding. Every time I close the throttle is like someone jumping on the rear brake, too much time on two strokes!!
I had great luck with my KX. It's been abused on monster hillclimbs for years with minimal maintenance and really past the test of time.
Maybe you just got a bad one. My '97 KX500 has been as reliable as an anvil.
Don't let off the throttle then...
100% agree. I've owned them all. CR500 is just what it should be, easy to work on and tough as an anvil. Years ago I I put 50,000 miles on a CR500 all on dirt.
KX500 is a pussy to own and ride. They get along Ok and the most reliable bike I've ever owned and every thing mechanical on the bike is a credit to Kawasaki. First new one in '97 off the floor. Still got my '04 bought it new. These guys ride the old school bikes for a day on the track and think they know it all. I have a CR500R in the shed too . 2001. never clicked into gear.
I have a 93 KX500 that I am going to freshen up and a restored 97 CR500. I look forward to riding them back to back. Awesome video of these 2 bikes, loved it
Had both and they're both amazing machines.
The CR was always a tad more aggressive.
It appeared the KX was geared too low for that track. Going up a tooth on the counter sprocket would have definitely mellowed out the power delivery. It would pull longer and space out the shift points. Also hook up better. Huge improvement for 10 minute mod. The power delivery feel would then better match the Dyno.
@Steve D Oh you must be referring to Sean Collier. Yes he won races both at Glen Helen and Mammoth on his father's kx500. It was amazing that he also beat out modern bikes. I think he is partly responsible for the open 2-stroke being popular again.
@Steve D yeah, the manufacturer will go along with what the idiots say to them.
The manufacturer is selling to thousands of idiots.
As a result, the idiots break their bones and learn the hard way.
Mcgrath detuned the product to suit himself.
KX;s were more traily then the cr
I agree you have to get a bike differently for different tracks they didn't do that so the results may not show what the bikes really can do.
60hp for a 450 is manufacture claimed horsepower at the crank. These 500s are making true 54 and 58 at the REAR WHEEL! SO these bikes are making more HP than modern 450s.
no its also at the wheel there are videos of them making 58hp at the wheels so not quiet what they claim but close
@@vaughanhodgson No stock 450 is pushing 60hp at the wheel. The videos on youtube never show live dyno results, just state it, which is dodgy. Also, all dynos read differently, so a 500cc 2 stroke might make 65hp on those dynos, if its showing 60hp for a 450. Ken Kaplin showed live 450 dynos results between 49-52hp at the wheel. Stock 500s at around 52 and tuned 500s considerably more.
@@mxcoolman yea your right different dynos different results. But also hes super bias he has the lowest readings for the 450s on youtube.would love to see a stock vs stock live comparison. Obviously one can get alot of power out of a bike with tweaking the engine. A factory 250f makes as much power as a stock 450 apparently
@@vaughanhodgson He also has some of the lowest results for Cr500s. It's harder to extract more power out of a 450....compared to a 500cc 2 stroke. Most factory bikes don't really make anymore peak HP than stock....but they are tuned and developed for better more linear power and torque. Less power usually equals better lap times. As for 250f motors, they are certainly tuned to rev out faster and higher and to make some more HP.
Kaplan america has dyno runs on his channel with cr 500 and crf 450
Great video to showcase this two iconic bikes of yesteryear. The technical detail and rideability impressions are fascinating. Thank you.
Would love to see these bikes matched up against their modern counterparts from the respective manufacturers. Although the technology is archaic by comparison I have no doubt they'd hold their own. There's nothing that can get your heart racing like a handful of throttle on a 500 2-stroke!
get you going straight to the hospital! 😅 that '94 CR500 was a crazy amount of bike.
Id LOVE a modern CRF chassis with the CR500 2 Stroke engine in it! Ive raced CR 250 and 500 2 Strokes and the 500 is just so much fun! Cool video!
I would love an AF too but let's face the facts it's not always the bike it's mostly the rider
Ahhh yes, the golden age of dirt bikes!
Crazy the way both motors turned the plastics on both bikes into jello before the gate drop! 🤙😂
Fuel injected high-powered two strokes still exist in the snowmobile world where power and weight is where it's at!! Turbos too👍👍
60 hp on a dirt bike and all that torque is completely insane. I wish I had the opportunity to ride one although there is no way I could ride it to a quarter of it's potential.
Yeah it's crazy if you compare it to bikes now.
Like Kawasaki makes a 250cc four stroke with almost 50 hp now. People are tuning them and getting like 61. Kawasaki makes crazy good engines. Who would have thought a 250cc four stroke could make almost as much power as a 500.
@@4touchdowns1game29 There isnt a 250 4-stroke anywhere making near those numbers. It simply can't move enough air. Cut you numbers in half to be more realistic.
@@4touchdowns1game29yes but that 4 stroke probably made 22ft lbs torque at 10,000 rpm where as the cr500 makes 53ft lbs torque at 6000 rpm
BACK in the DAY the KX Won alot of RACES.those RIDERS were BEASTS those guys would race these bikes all day .... I want to buy either one please !!!!
I remember watching Brad Lackey win the superbikers race in California on a KX500. Even for him, you could tell that bike was a handful. That was in 1982 on wide world of sports on a Saturday afternoon.
I cant conjure up the words to describe how much I enjoyed this video! Thank you guys 🫡
OMG! I raced a 1994 CR500 in 1995, right down to the Factory Connection suspension! I almost killed myself at Budd's Creek (where Doug Henry broke his back). That was way too much bike for me. Heck, the 1994 CR250 was super punchy. Honda engines dominated the mid 90s (suspension was another issue 😄). Good times. Thanks for the memories.
The differences between dyno curve and what the riders perceived is due to rear tire slippage. The KX500 was spending more time with the rear tire not hooked up to the track.
Motocross and supercross is full of idiot copycat riders.
They wouldn't have a clue what they're riding.
Exactly you must be a genius or they must be really dumb!
Just watch the video you can see this happening
I had an 84 CR 500 and went up one tooth on the countershaft. It would do over 90 and when jumping it would drag both frame rails on landing with the heavy spring installed. You could pull the front end up in a turn and ride out on the rear wheel. It would rip the bars out of your hands if you weren't careful. Most fun I ever had not between the sheets.
I can't help myself, the Honda is sooooooo beautiful ! The shape of the bike, the colours 😍.
Had'em both. Loved'em both for different reason. Great memories 😁.. Appreciate ya Josh/MXA .. OLD G 😉👊
The glory days of motocross. Used to race a KX500 back in the day and miraculously lived to tell the tale. There will never be another bike like the 500 2t, ever. Had to know the bikes on a personal level, after every ride I went through and re-torqued all the bolts that vibrated loose on the track. Insane power delivery. Modern 450s are nice and deliver smooth power bands but nothing has ever got my heart pumping like the old 500 did all those years ago.
Those machines are from the 90's..
It's easy to image how faster and still more competitive they would be if two stroke development wasn't stopped..
I couldnt choose one if i had to. I had both in the past and loved em both. Wish i had kept them.
But a fully modded CR500 makes over 70 HP mine did , nothing could touch it in the desert or at Glamis with a paddle. Pro Circuit did my porting and head mods and I had the 1st ever FMF Gold pipe. The power and sound compared to stock was crazy.
I love the smell of a 2 stroke in the morning
Enjoyed video. Love my 97 CR500R, 19yrs now and still ripping shit up!
It was so much fun. I had to jump off the back tailgate of my pick up or a gas can to crank up my YZ 490. It had drum brakes and two speeds. Oh I’m going to die and sitting still. If those drum brakes got good and wet, you would find yourself making a new trail through whatever was in front of you. I sold it because I thought it would kill us. I would give anything to have it back.
I like when they put people on these that are confident 4 stroke riders but have never ridden a big bore 2 stroke. I like hearing their pre ride assumptions and post ride opinions.
Honda started detuning the CR500 from around 1987 onwards , the 85 and 86 models had more HP and also were much harder to control , from 87 onwards Honda started to realize that making the power more manageable was the key to getting the power to the ground and thus faster lap times . Kawasaki must also have been watching closely at what Honda was up to as they basically did precisely the same thing around 88 - 89 !
Would love to see these brought back and modernized, especially with fuel injection being doable on 2 strokes now. 75 hp would be doable, and absolutely wild to ride on
Such cool bikes! love my KX500, hoping to add a CR500 in the future.
That's Crazy.
Why buy something completely different?
You've never done any research into motocross bikes.
Cool has a 1 year time limit. Its just OLD now.
@@dreyn7780 What are you talking about?
Awseome. Next vid should be Jeff Ward, Bavid Bailey
I've ridden both machines in stock form in the past (I'm almost 50) The Cr was a bar fight where the Kx was a smooth ride. I still prefer a bare knuckle brawl.
Is true
I had an '04 KX500 that I bought new, because it was the last year of them. And yeah, it was very stable at high speed on somewhat rough fields. I remember thinking it sort of felt like a 500cc KDX or something, very smooth power, but a whole lot of it!
Great verbal comparison 💯💯💯💯✅🏁
If everyone who is all pro smokers now, was pro smokers THEN, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Literally 10s of people bought the 500s when they were for sale. It's OUR fault they stopped selling them.
The KX 500 is my favorite sounding dirt bike for sure
I had an '04 KX500 that I bought new. Man I wish I had never sold it! But at the time, it was hard to find enough room to run that bike, and it wasn't any good on the tighter woods trails, kept fouling the plug unless it was being run hard ALL the time. It needed a LOT of space, like in the desert or some other wide open land. Still wish I would have kept it though. That bike would wear you out quick though, the vibration alone was enough to tire out your hands.
The 450 WEIGHT you quoted at 230lb are ..... DRY weight. The 238lb quoted for the CR 500 is wet weight!
A CR500 is lighter than a CRF450!
And yet is not really any faster in real life riding. The modern 450F s WORLDS faster than a 500 2 stroke... Not that I''m a fan of the 4 stroke complexity and weight...
@@audikris define faster? Faster lap time because of a better chassis and more rider friendly? Yes! A CR500 makes so much more real world power than a 450! 30% more torque at lower RPM....they are animals compared to modern 450s. I own both and there really isn't any comparison in the muscle department.
It would be interesting to have a comparison of a 2022 500Af against a 2022 CRF 450. I think the result would show how good that CR500 really is.
@@mxcoolman i think most people have a hard time holding on to the 500s for a moto. A lot of power to wrestle and they weren't counterbalanced so the vibes can be tough. Ill take a smoker any day over a 450 tho. More fun.
It all depends on the rider. A pro on a 125 would whip a novice on any bike of their choice. And a pro on a 500 would whip any novice on any bike of their choice.
They are stronger as my 1983 born Maico 490 ?
SERVICE HONDS AF 500 213 POUNDS DRY 15 POUNDS LIGHTER THAN A FACTORY KTM 450. SO 2-3 FASTER PER LAP.
I have owned both bikes. They are different but that’s what makes them both worth owning. There is nothing like getting on a bike that wants to hurt you. But it’s the thrill of balancing the line between hurting yourself and getting all you can out of them that makes it worth riding.
Well lets go back to 1993 and prior I think someone forgot to tell Mike Kiedrowski, Jeff Ward and Ron Lechien with his legendary 1988 Motocross des nations ride the CR500 was a better motorcycle. Are we apples for apples here? 1993 was when the AMA discontinued the 500cc motocross class and the KX dominated that year with Mike LaRocco prevailing as 500cc national champion. Not many changes came after that to either bike until discontinued, Imagine if they kept evolving.
The KX 500 had very forgiving handling and un matched high speed stability, you had to rail turns and pivot in tight turns, it would turn pretty good. Where as the CR 500 Honda could turn inside the KX and made it feel like a clear advantage, but the Honda was known for head shake and did not have the high speed stability the KX was gifted with as the KX was king of the desert and Baja. It may depend what track you are racing on that would make the decision which motorcycle is better. I would rather do 100+ MPH on a KX500 everywhere than a CR 500 Honda. Race history speaks for it's self and not to forget, don't compare the KX to the RC500 factory bikes only the chosen few had those works of art.
Have had 4 KX500s. Beast. Easy 3rd gear starts. KIPS equipped and luggable but insanely fast. However my CRF450 was WAY more fun, rideable, and MUCH faster.
Is this a good beginner bike?
@DM Motocross Action on telegram you’re aware TH-cam doesn’t have a direct message thing right? Scammers dumb 😭 💀
I think that the reason the power delivery confused the riders was maybe about the total power on the kawi means it might be spinning the rear wheel alot so it revs up faster
Id take a CR 500 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm biased I used to have one till it got stolen. 89 Cr500, bad ass bike.
Damn that kawi looks so sick. Seeing a 500 is like seeing a unicorn
My bias opinion. KX500 is the sweet dirt melting cream dream. Enjoy :)
I had a 1988 cr for 30yrs. Fantastic. It went to Australia
It appears the KX would have benefited going up a tooth on the counter sprocket. Also i have yet to see a rear wheel dyno of a stock modern 450 hitting 60HP. Are you comparing Apple's to Apple's? I'm sure there would be a lot of interest if you did a video on just the rear wheel dyno of these 2 bikes along with a couple of modern 450's to compare.
I had wanted to write the same comment. Ken Kaplan has had all of them on his Dyno and the 450s have less HP at the wheel then the 500s. A completely bone stock CR500 from the 90s has the same as the special edition 450 Honda. Only adding a pipe gives you more.
However obviously nobody argues if that is of any actual use, Antonio cairoli won a number of world titles on a 350 and back in the day the 250s were often faster than the 500d
@@petergriffin4629 I've also been following Ken. Especially since he got that dyno. He's been putting out some excellent content. I agree for the most part. In 88 I bought a new kx500 and a buddy bought the 250. In a drag race we were fairly even. It wasn't till the 500 hit 4th and 5th that it pulled a couple of bike lengths. The real difference was when we hit the long loose desert hill climbs. The 250 would have to down shift then grind to a stop to where the 500 would pull 3rd all the way to the top. The 500 was the ultimate bike for that type of riding. One of the few places to where you could actually use all of its power. I still have that bike today😊
@@petergriffin4629 ken has had both on dyno and they make close hp figures
@@vaughanhodgson stock, no cr500 you could buy is stock
@@petergriffin4629 Wanna bet? I still have the stock pipe on my '96.
Both awesome bikes ,but ill have to go with green 500 as i have one lol
@DM Motocross Action on telegram sweet
The CR500 is far superior in every way, especially looks. No hate.
Rode both and loved them. I liked the KX as a woods bike and hill climber. CR would out turn the KX but that was the only plus of the CR over the KX in my humble opinion.
The KXs were always more stable at high speed but less nimble.
@@harrypeterson9287 agreed and the Showa forks on the Honda sucked. Two entirely different machines for sure.
He's not telling you the horsepower comparison against four strokes correctly that 58 horsepower at the KX makes was at the wheel the 60 horsepower the four strokes make was that the crank
What music is at the start and end of this clip? So good...
Just imagine if these had got the extra 25 years or so of development the 4t's did.
They or should I say Service Honda did. It's called the Service Honda CR500AF/ KX500af. Or Built500 as it is now today.
@@dennismillus4581 Thats a long, long way from having 25 years of factory development. Throwing a tuned old motor in a modern frame is something any half decent mechanic can do.
Remember "performance" single 4t's from back then would usually make ~30-40hp if you were lucky from a 600 weighing at least 200kg. Now they're knocking on 70hp from a 450 thats half the weight.
Even just the gains in materials and precision of fuel injection/ignition would make a massive difference to the design if it was ground up.
Thats ignoring all the paths that were never followed due to a lack of reliable technology like direct injection, supercharging, variable exhaust sizes and so on.
There are plenty of what-ifs around 2t development that got scuppered thanks to greed.
@@siraff4461 YES, you nailed it! Even when 2-strokes were the only MX bikes available, the OEM's never devoted the R&D to the 500 Class. 125 and 250cc bikes got all of the good stuff every other year with almost complete redesigns. The 500's were on a 4-5 year schedule of redesign. 500's mostly got new graphics and more or less flywheel weight.
@@tomfoolery8829 It always made me wonder why. Maybe there just wasn't a lot to be gained from the massive amount of extra power they could have made?
I always wondered why they didn't do a 500 twin too. 250 tech and revs with double the capacity.
I think the makers had largely given up on the 500's by the 80's. They kept throwing on the basic stuff into the 90's but most of that was just recycled 250 tech just because it was there and easy to use.
Even an alloy framed 500 from the factory would have been a big difference.
When you look at more modern designs like the Rotax e-tec where an 800 twin is making 160hp in an application which can be kept flat out for minutes at a time it makes you wonder what a real, modern 2t bike could do.
Oh and that 800 twin weighs less than the old CR500 engine too...
Used to have Maico 400s back in the 70s (old dude) it would be marvelous to be young enough to ride a 500cd 2 stroke with a modern frame and suspension setup.
Had a 82 YZ 490 with a bad attitude. Scared my older brother senseless first time he rode it.
The KX was wonderful in the desert, when I didn’t have to turn much. Big-time power. The CR was wayyyy better on an MX track, because it could turn circles under the KX. There might have been a little headshake, but the trade off was worth it. CR- better MX-er. KX- better desert sled.
What about the vibration of the big bores? Which one was worse? I absolutely love the sound, and smell of a well tuned 500.
Stock for stock, the KX vibrates more, while the CR is more of a buzz.
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443I absolutely agree
2024 and we don’t have the greatest 500cc bikes in current production makes no sense! What is going on in the world!! You make it we buy it! End of story.
Was not the case in the day on these 500. Ppl complained of to much power to the point these bikes were tamed down to such a flat power curve towards the end claiming power throughout better than overall power. Another words kinda tuned the 2t outta them to try and open up more sales. The end of the 500 ama mx class was the breaking straw for all the 500s. Look into the mid 80s for the real 500 heavy hitters. Though the suspensions would need updated much like these received.
The CR500 has the most wins of any bike.. it's the most Versatile bike. It's the most desired bike. The CR500 can easily beat today's 450 4pukes. The 500cc two strokes are more popular and desired today than ever before....
The kx500 also dominated the desert for many years, winning Baja and numerous other races. I bet it would still be competitive today if team green was still racing them.
@@jak5008 most definitely
They need to bring back a line of these 2strokes. I would also think people would buy the shit out of 2 stroke quads. A factory Honda 500R!!
2:00 Those engines look like war machines.
Everyone has lawn mower these days and electric is about to take over soon!
All i can say bring back the 2 strokes! Fun fact i bought a 1998 yz125. Not as fast like my 450 but im loving the power band of 2 strokes! #mixinggashaulinass
Enjoyed 2 500 Hondas in the 90's. Both used ones had cracked pistons that still ran fine but needed a refresh
still the greatest Motorcross bikes ever made
Why do you guys keep cutting out the hole shots?
Big boys out there 💪🏽🔥💪🏽🧐🚬
I rode & raced the CR500 & the KX500 both are great bikes the Honda is just durable but the Kawasaki is much better on a track because like he said the power is smooth I faired much better on the KX500 on a track even though the bike is longer overall
Thanks 500s for my longer arms and permanent smile😆!!!!
Wonder how the kx was geared ? I got mine at 15 / 43
500cc racing, now that was men of men racing. You had to have a set of balls so big you needed a dump truck to haul them.
Not to take away from any other size riders of bikes but to race a 500….it just took a whole different mindset.
Why?
A modern 450 is alot faster around a track than a 500. Dudes nowadays are on a whole other level.
I owned both cr and kx and I liked the cr for mx and the kx for fast off road and desert. The BRC 500 on a modern ktm chase would be the one to compare to those
Desert requires a long wheelbase.
You're obviously wrong.
MX bikes are tune- able for circle tracks. Lap after Lap riding of the same set of corners.
There's NO reason to tune for every type of corner in the Desert.
Motocross and supercross bikes are only made for Lap after Lap riding for 20 minutes.
Cause then you have to tune them again.
I have had both. The kipps kx500 i prefer. More smother power and my cr500 was just raw out the gate. Both about same in a race.
It's not the ride, is the rider 😎
My recollection is that the 1984/85/86 CR500 were the most powerful. Then Honda started detuning it after that. Regardsless, the old adage still applies - no one has won riding a dynamometer.
The early 500s weren't more powerful, they just hit harder and were less linear power than the more tuned and refined late 90s bikes.
@@mxcoolman - joe, I recall several early 1980's dyno readings in the 62 hp range for the CR500. You are correct in that they hit so hard, they weren't fun to ride.
Ok, I had to refresh my recollections. This is what I found in the 'net: "From 1985 through 1988 the CR500 reportedly produced 60-64hp, though by the time it was phased-out of production in 2001 its power had been mellowed out to 56hp."
@@spacejaime there just isn't any dyno result evidence, past or present to support this. They definitely hit harder. People say the cr500s were detuned, when they were infact 'tuned' to make the bike vastly improved towards the mid 90s. All 500s are cool though 😎 👌
I have ridden and own several CRs, old and new. The newer ones weren't detuned, they just had the power profile tuned to make it more broad, instead of a big sudden low-end burst that flattened off in the upper RPMs
Both badass mans bikes my uncle randy had a honda cr500 my uncle Scott had a kawasaki kx500 both raced motocross I had a Yamaha dt400 she would run with both 500s on the trails but on the track both 500s would walk away I currently have a Polaris 570 twin 2 stroke quad she's wicked 2 stroke life
Looks like the best job in the world
there is no loser here.they are both top class machines.as for ride ability, a motocross magazine tested George Jobe's world championship 500 KX and the test rider couldn't ride it anywhere near it's potential because it didn't suit his style and couldn't get used to the power delivery yet George got the number 1 plate with it.it's the same with comparing 2 and 4 stroke that everyone seems to do.is kind of irrelevant because they are not even close to being the same.i do believe that everyone should experience the 500 as they are very special.
I love my 97 KX500 being a big guy 6'3" 250 lbs scootalong just fine for me Matt
There's plenty of thrashing riders out there.
You obviously can't tune a bike.
The 450s don't put down 60 WHP stock.
Exactly. They do it at the crank. They don’t make near what people think they do. I think they measured whp with these 500s.
@@user-mo8tm4jw2l Would love to see 500 2 strokes compete in AMA so we could see real results.
@@swedish_sadhguru3854 honestly they would get smoked
@@vaughanhodgson the 500s?
Very cool video. 🤙🏾
I Really, really miss that sound when I am at the track!
Well come up north to Sacramento and buy my 99 KX500. BTW, I bought a KTM690 Enduro R and have been using your vids for a guide to mods.
Basically everything I just listened to was a complete contradiction to the Dyno test. That's what matters… the seat of the pants feel. Both great bikes. Owned both in the past but the CR 500 will always be the all-around King Of Ping!!!
7:25 everyone who saw the dyno sharts 😆
I had a 2001 kx 500 for 15 years..I have a 2022 crf 450r now..at heart I'm a kx fan..but I hate to say it the 2022 crf450r is just as fast or faster
Great content 🤘🤘
Match the Yammer & Suzi to that mix be a wonderful 4 bike run ❤ Honda was always better riding Kx was always more fun to work with throughout the trails ❤ved the constant shifting was actually a big downfall to a lot of riders riding the KX500 was Absolutely a FullTimeJob ❤vnit🎉BraappBrapp
You used stock gearing on KX500? I've owned both bikes and KX500 is much easier to race than the CR.I always had the same effect on each bike as your dyno told you. And the CR always had more vibration interesting. I prefer that KX500 motor over any other motor ever made
Would be cool to go further back in time and test an 81 cr450 or 84 cr500 (both lightswitches) or the Burly 88 cr500-the 89 was a kitten in comparison.
I went straight from my 98 125 to my dad's 89 cr 500 at 14 yo because I had to keep putting a top end in it every two rides. I immediatly took to it and could ride that 500 like a 125. Only weighing 135 lbs.
Am not a Honda fan althought I own one back in the days I go for kx for comfort...✌️✌️✌️✌️
got a 85cr500r and 84atc250r i love the kx500 they are rare in canada
I loave two strokes! I have a restored 1995 CR250 that I ride all the time.
Waiting for someone to put one of these 500 on a modern ninja 250 or a R3.