I just got into 40k (through astartes) but from binging about 20 hours of TH-cam for the hobby, the two rules I know are... -use sprue clippers -thin your paints
I remember when I started out and I was basically twisting models out of the sprue or using my old craft knife to cut the parts free. One slip and ten stitches in the accident ward later, you better believe i'm using clippers.
Good idea. Never crossed my mind in 51 years of wargaming. Will use that in the future just to tease and joke. Possible it will trigger more painting. Thanks!
When I started wargaming a hundred years ago (ok, it was 1979) it was understood that this is what you did - rulesets were a "serving suggestion" and all of us ne'er-do-wells who thought we could make it better were encouraged to do just that. Likewise if you wanted to game a period/genre that no rules yet existed for...which back then was more of a thing than today...you would sit down and write them. Do not allow yourself to be unwillingly bound by a ruleset. The only "unsupported" rulesets are the ones you stop playing and being creative with. The Gaming Police will not come and take way your Army Mans if you use your imagination and creativity.
exactly.. some people will ruin wargaming and roleplaying by being rule lawyers and by taking rules as a matter of life and death, their own interpretations of course
My local hobby store used to be pretty casual until it got taken over by these two Egyptian looking guys who started sending people into the Warp whenever someone loses a children's tabletop game against them.
I play 40k, AOS, and LOTR. Mostly AOS lately because both my armies were just updated (KO and Lizards). We don't have any other armies at my house and no opponents due to quarantine. So I wrote rules and stats for all my LOTR armies to play in AOS just to play against variety.
Posting at 3 am? Thanks for all the consistent and awesome content. Your channel brought me into the hobby in fall 2017 and I’ve loved it every second since.
This felt like the introduction to a series of videos about game hacks, custom rules and variations. Maybe devoting a short video to examples. As a perpetual rule hacker, I would love to see what others have done to modify the rules of their miniature games.
In wh40k 6th my group started using average dice (2-3-3-4-4-5) for some rolls, like charge rolls to remove at least a little bit of the stupid, unpredictable randomness from key events and make the game more interesting. It worked like a charm! It would be probably the choICe with today's wh40k rules to limit its extremes (damage rolls for example) but the general conclusion nowadays is that to avoid stupid, unpredictable, player-agency destroying randomness the best choice is not to play Games Workshop games altogether ;)
First off, great shirt. Secondly, I started playing Blitz Bowl with my daughter and we love it. We are starting to make our own teams and players. Squig Blitz Bowl team!
Good vid. On the GW podcasts (Stormcast and Voxcast), when rules writers are on, they've often said that modding their work is what they want people to do for their 'casual' games. The three ways of playing idea was to help people dip their toe into adapting the games to the players' preferences, creating narratives, making the game their own and so on.
We used to have a 'peeking out' house rule for first edition Necromunda. Because line-of-sight was determined from a model's head, you couldn't normally fire around a vertical wall corner and still remain in full cover when the target fired back (unless you had a model that was leaning). So we would declare that the model was 'peeking out' around the corner, and was automatically in full cover when the target fired back, but in partial cover to any flanking model. We could have just measured from the base but this way seemed more realistic and led to a lot of tactical flanking moves, which was fun. I haven't played the latest incarnation of Necromunda so I don't know if the 'peeking out' rule would still apply.
In Moba's they put a boss in the middle of the map that sometimes gives bonuses or rewards that you fight over. You could make an objective spawn a boss unit on say turn 3 or 4 under the control of whoever held that objective
As much as I enjoy certain tabletop games and the existing rule sets there's definitely added enjoyment by tweaking or creating house rules and homebrews, either for added fluff, enjoyment or just a bit of added chaos. Much like the video on prolonging your enjoyment of a game with campaign play etc there's a reason that game creators encourage it.
I LOVE that shirt! What your speaking of are the 3 ways to play. GW has been making great narrative play rules for AoS that most people just skip over in the GHB’s. I understand wanting the competitive rigidity of mathched play. But i have been looking more and more into narrative play. My favorite small/skiemish game is combat patrol with adepticon rules for 40k. It is heavily modified and A LOT of fun. Brought it back home and people loved it. GW tells people to tweek the rules a lot are twitchy about it after years of rules rigidity. Great topic, keep up the great work, stay safe and healthy.
My friends and I have sometimes played Warhammer 40k games, but using the turn sequence for Kill Team. The alternation of actions makes the game incredibly fun, and it actually provides some balance that is otherwise hard to get in regular 40k. This all goes back to how old Warhammer Fantasy was played, long ago. Where phases were alternated, and you had to outmaneuver your opponent and plan ahead better. The main benefit to Kill Team turns is that it mitigates the imbalance that the regular game has for the second player. Getting wiped out turn one becomes harder, when you can either outmaneuver your opponent, or damage him before he destroys you.
Another great video, thanks! I find that a new rule set is often the inspiration/motivation for me to start a new project, rather than new figure ranges. As you say I get enjoyment from trying out new rules, just to see how they work.
i've found Warcry an excellent system for homebrewing rules in, new monsters, new units, new abilities, new scenarios, missions, campaigns, real easy to get into making new rules, adding new complexity if you want. i do enjoy creating new things in tabletop games as much as i enjoy any other part of the hobby or gaming.
My first tactical game was Avalon Hills Feudal, the Squad Leader, that’s how I got into miniatures ( micro scale for squad leader). Rules I found usually came down to gentleman agreements, especially because I often introduced people to the war game hobby. I’m just getting into the miniature side of 40k, trying to figure out all the rules books. Seems you need to have a personal library just for a faction, they need to make it easier to get a handle of the rules for beginners.
I really wish more miniature gamers (and manufacturers) would understand this. So much of the community dialogue in-line is dominated by discussions over tournament rules and the idea of playing more casual and varied games using these rule sets and models is dismissed as “do whatever you want in casual games.” But playing non-competitive games and experimenting with the rules provides such an enormous play space that fits with the history and origins of miniature war games. I think people worry way too much about organized play rules. That’s one reason I’m really thrilled with Atomic Mass Games and Marvel: Crisis Protocol. Their organized play is built around casual and narrative okay and they have released two sets of rules for alternate play scenarios.
My wife's relatives are very committed to their Clue house rules and after 15 years of trying I have given up trying to change them. Especially as they are now being taught to my own children.
Another cool topic Atom! While I understand adhering rigidly to a ruleset in order to play competitively, I find narrative games with a few house-rule tweaks makes a game more enjoyable. Battletech was a ruleset my freinds and I ruthlessly pared down to make a playable game with four players, four mechs each, all your mech stats on one sheet, and could be completed in an evening without inducing migraines. When my group plays Gaslands, we just show up with the cars we feel like using and hang the cost in cans. If the game gets won by the guy who brought a 120 can team, that guy gets ribbed pretty badly, and more often than not, that guy gets ganged-up on by the other players, negating their advantage in points! Anyway, there isn't a " rules police" ( although I am accused of such behavior) that will raid your "illeagal" game and prosecute you for the crime of breaking the rules! Thanks for the video, look forward to the next one!
If you enjoy modifying rule sets Tabletop Wargames by Rick Priestly and John Lambshead is a great resourse for understanding the nuts and bolts of a rule set.
Wargames originated under the request of a prussian general for the creation of a method to test tactics without moving hundreds of soldiers around, a way he could develop new tactics from his room without enemy spies seen his troops moving and deducing his new ideas before he implemented them. Throughout the centuries it was brought to civilian use, where it branched into fantasy, historical, scifi etc scenarios, but, to this day, military officers keep an up to date wargame so they can develop their tactics and stratagems (though it is mostly digital nowdays). I believe the idea of the rules being “set in stone” comes from this origin and implementation, you can't just say “but I think it will be funnier if melee works like that” to a prussian general testing if he can order an cavalary charge against a cannon, the rules need to represent reality. Periode. Of course, this ignores that as reality changes, the rules change, USA’s navy had to remodel their game after the introduction of torpedo bombers between WW1 and WW2, and that IS a change in rules. For civilian use though, it is completely fine to change the rules when you are not planning an operation upon which the lives of hundreds,if not thousands of people depends on the accuracy of the game.
Great video :) I remember the Mordheim days when you kinda had to house rule to make the game playable. The same goes for many other skirmish games I've played over the years.
interesting idea about seize the initiative rule. That part of the game always felt a little swingy. Since most of the time it depends on who sets up first there is a element of strategy when building a list if you place down some models as a full unit or individual. Then its negated before the game starts on a roll of 6. But since its only a roll of 6 its rare and because its rare it feels like a whole gaming session is effected by an "out of game" source. That is jut me though, so its cool to think of the option to make an adjustment, even if it seems obvious I never thought about changing it till now, so thanks! P.S. awesome shirt.
I love playing the old ramshackle rule for Ork Trukks from 5th edition 40k. Always makes for a fun and sometimes crazy out come for your destroyed Ork Trukks.
I once had a WH40k game, that was not so great. My shooting phases were bad, so I did no damage, and my saves were epic so I took no damage. Basicly nothing spectacular happened in that game. After a missed shoot with one of my Leman Russ Battle Tanks, which had a commander with a Chainsword on its top, I was so angry and just said "he throws in anger his chainsword at your guy". My opponent found that idea funny, so he let me do it and that brought back a bit the fun in the game, becuase from then on every round that guy threw another chainsword at his enemies.
In noncompetative play while it is true that if you have fun you’ve accomplished your goal, but having a reasonably potent army and being reasonably good is still relevant because even if you’re just playing for fun if you rarely or never win that will take a significant amount of fun away from playing for most people.
I liked your seize the initiative idea, about having an element of risk involved. Although I am normally the sort of person if I know I'm going 2nd I will always deploy defensively making it difficult for my opponent to see me. If I seize then it also means I have to move my models so before I can shoot, affecting my heavy weapons, rather than making my opponent have to manoeuvre to hit me. So I won't normally seize the initiative.
I played 40K with some friends who built a thematic battle scenario for a more lore-friendly Space Marines vs. Orks battle - 2000 points of Orks vs. 1000 points of Space Marines, back when 3rd edition rules were still the latest ruleset for the game. There was a set of house rules to make this imbalance in force strength make sense. The most important ones were: -Ork shooting was nerfed, by mandating that they reroll all hits. -Terminators got a "2+ save with 5+ invulnerable reroll" instead of "2+ save with 5+ invulnerable save". -Space Marine Scouts could treat their cover save as a reroll of their armour save. Good times.
I mostly play and run tabletop RPGs, and in almost every game we tweak book rules and introduce house rules, mostly because almost every system has something that just doesnt make sense or doesn't work for some situations. Bit that's almost always in a group of people who know each other well, and it isn't competitive. When I play 40k or other wargames at my local store though, even though I usually know the person I'm playing, it's often not as close a relationship as our RPG group, and there's a much bigger pool of people playing, so it makes it much harder to consistently have house rules.
Back in my college days (aka the dark ages), we house ruled a good chunk of Necromunda, just because we did not like the campaign system, and some things that we found odd in the rules. (IIRC, it started with there not being a difference between jumping down 2" and falling down 2", or something minor like that. In the end, it was some 40-odd pages of rewrites and tweaks.) I'd love to get a regular game going and do that sort of thing again
Hahahahaha!!! You know what makes us new games? Houserules!!! ON a side note if there ever will be something like Hall of Fame for wargaming videos this one for sure gets the spot in the top 10! Stay safe y'all!!!!
Me and my friends tend to ignore certain FAQs as house rules in a kind of "I recognize the council has made a decision, but given it's a stupid ass decision, we have elected to ignore it." For instance in the Ork FAQ, it says infantry embarked on the battlewagon can't benefit from the moving fortress ability, even though nothing in the rules says they shouldn't benefit from it. Also the Greater Good FAQ for scion regiments, despite the rules being written so that they deliberately keep their militarum tempestus keyword and gain the tempestus regiment, so they get both their storm troopers and tempestus regiment buffs if taken in their own detachment, or at least stay battleforged in a regular regiment detachment and get a scion regiment as well. Well, the FAQ just said bollocks to all that for again, no reason. We just operate under the rule that unless its errata'd, we ignore it if the FAQ explains something as counter to how it's written.
@@XYZdude00 No dude, playing rules as written and intended is not exploiting. If the rule is actually changed it's errata'd, if it's not errata'd then the rule should be played as written regardless. That's how GW's own system is meant to work, errata for rule changes, FAQ is meant to clear up inconsistencies or ambiguous wording, for instance clarifying that mortifiers get 15 attacks with two penitent flails, people believed it was possibly overpowered, but GW clarified it wasn't. FAQs are not meant to be "even though it's written like this, you need to do the opposite because we've now changed our minds about it." If anything you are the one trying to exploit it by taking these FAQs as gospel and getting people to play what is actually counter to the rules.
I am really looking forward to try a more Mortheimesque rulset for Killteam I wrote we will see when that will happen. Also I want to point the number one question out I encountered through years of playing: "Can I blow this (mostly a piece of terrain) up?" And at first this was an awesome idea but at close examination often posed a disadvantage for only one player. So if anybody is out there with a well working "Let's blow it up!" mission where both players can enjoy the mushroom cloud let me know.
Slightly off topic - tip for parents with kids who are just getting into real boardgames (meaning they need to be able to read) - surprisingly many games can be played "good-enough" if everyone takes their turn simultaneously. The kids don't loose interest, it's always happening. Settlers, Carcassonne, Colonizing Mars, Runebound all work for us. Ok, so you don't have to be able to read to play Carcassonne, I know that...
I have played many different rules and I have never liked one of them 100%. Usually just a tweak here or there and then I am happy. Luckily most of those I played with either didn't care and went along or agreed with me(or I with them). There are also some games I refuse to play because there is too much about the rules(or backstory) that I dislike. Never played tournament and doubt I ever will so I am good.
Have you had any thoughts on wargaming during this time of lockdown and social distancing? Maybe people can concentrate on the research and modelling sides of our games but the actual gaming?
It’s a good idea to look at the rules that are vague, and there’s always some. Try to find the writers intent then if you don’t agree , try to find what your group thins is right.
Glad to see I’m not the only one that thinks traditional seize the initiative is dumb. Why would you NOT want to seize the initiative? Basically the rule as it stands is rolling for who goes first twice with the advantage to the person who won it first.
Hello, looking for some guidance. I have little to no knowledge of this hobby. I recently purchased an estate with 100,000+ pewter miniatures. Mostly GHQ and Langton. A lot of micro armor. All are raw, unpainted. I also have 100+ boxed sets for various games. How would you recommend I go about selling these? I’m looking for the best method to find interested buyers as I resell for a living. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
For the modelling and paint parts of the hobby, there is no rule. At all. There are only a lot of good practices which are dependent of the circonstances (what you want to achieve in a given time frame, techniques you know, paint types you have, money you can spend in the hobby, etc.) Basically when we learn "how to", we follow a set of best practices discovered by experienced hobbyists. But those are no rules, just the most appropriate good practices we should follow if we want to obtain a nice result with beginner-friendly techniques.
I have far bigger enjoyment creating rulesets, mechanics and systems than actually playing the games ... they never really have what I want .. so I just change them! It’s fun.. but sometimes I just create games and never actually play them (I got like ~4 different alternative 40k skirmish rules with two completely different systems for hitting shots ...) but creating them is still fun so I guess.. I guess it doesn’t really matter..
I'm a firm believer that if rules get in the way of what you want to do: change them. Many people frown upon house rules, but for me they actually add a lot. True, they may unbalance the game a bit, but if you're all having fun then why not. Same goes for roleplaying games in my opinion. The rules are an aid, nothing more.
I´ve been tinkering with 40k 8th edition rules: - Put in the unit activation like in Bolt Action (Unit by Unit, randomly drawn) - Put in 4th ed. 40k Morale rules - Astartes do not run! (Only traitors do ;) ) What are your thoughts?
I think most GSC players prefer to go second. So saying you don’t “almost never want to” isn’t really accurate. It’s not that rare if you are playing a GSC.
What rules in the tau codex are confusing. And if they are confusing what is more confusing than any other codex. The two I could see being annoying is drone rules and overwatch. That is not annoying or hard to understand and if this is the issue there are ways to work around both.
Any advice on trying to change the rules when it comes to power gamers or the people who want to keep the rules the same because they spent a lot of money?
Shadowcat6lives, if you want to fiddle with rules you need to get buy in from everyone involved. If you start by assuming someone’s motivations to be reluctant, you will fail.
@@nunyabidness3075 Those are some wise words. Thank you for them. I must admit that I recalled the darker times of 40k when thinking about the question?
When I play middle earth strategy battle game with my friends we always double the max units per hero or just ignore the obligation all together. Having to cram extra orc captains to a list sucks because theyre hardly worth the points and pretty wasteful in an army like mordor where you want sheer numbers. My friend plays the dead of dunharrow so he doesn't need to adhere to the rule in the first place.
Shadowcat6lives it puts way more focus into formation and strategic placement because theres nobody to really get you out of a tough spot if things start going south. Your few heroes become really valuable because how powerful they are in comparison to your grunts but spell casters lose a some value because theres not that many targets (they still are the best way of dealing with enemy heroes tho). One thing is rolling buckets of dice like this can get kinda monotonous in larger point scales.
Going to play Hero Kids this weekend, with teenagers and children. RULES Mu ha ha ha ha ha. I feel the role of UN peace keeper will be mine. Barbies - Emerald Dragon will bring the emperors justice to nighthaunt and wolverine the hunter alike.
You just don't know l I've done rules fixing since at least. Panzer blitz and WRG Ancients in 1973 and became annoyed by the excuses and arrogance of such as Dunnigan and Barker. So,I stick with Korns and Terrain Griffith and otthers who do umpired games with few, rules And very little information
Skipping the SCOUT PHASE........ Heresy (40kish)...... depends on the army you play how important it is to your army...so about Uncle Tom STICKERS........hummmmm
Everything you say sounds like you are complaining. Like your default mode of communication is whining. Even about things you arent complaining about. Its frustrating haha.
I just got into 40k (through astartes) but from binging about 20 hours of TH-cam for the hobby, the two rules I know are...
-use sprue clippers
-thin your paints
And this is basically 90% af rules you'll ever need.
and like.....don't buy a crap ton and develop a pile of unpainted shame. Have at most like one kit in reserve. else you'll end up like us.
Always drill your paints and thin your barrels.
@@jarcuadanantus28 Let's face it. It's inevitable *cries in unpainted Targaryen Starterset*
I remember when I started out and I was basically twisting models out of the sprue or using my old craft knife to cut the parts free. One slip and ten stitches in the accident ward later, you better believe i'm using clippers.
I make all my brothers unpainted minis -1 to hit. Crazy how fast hes been painting, great motivator haha.
Good idea. Never crossed my mind in 51 years of wargaming. Will use that in the future just to tease and joke. Possible it will trigger more painting. Thanks!
"We live in a society." ~ Uncle Atom
I highly doubt that fact.
Gamers rise up!
When I started wargaming a hundred years ago (ok, it was 1979) it was understood that this is what you did - rulesets were a "serving suggestion" and all of us ne'er-do-wells who thought we could make it better were encouraged to do just that. Likewise if you wanted to game a period/genre that no rules yet existed for...which back then was more of a thing than today...you would sit down and write them. Do not allow yourself to be unwillingly bound by a ruleset. The only "unsupported" rulesets are the ones you stop playing and being creative with. The Gaming Police will not come and take way your Army Mans if you use your imagination and creativity.
exactly.. some people will ruin wargaming and roleplaying by being rule lawyers and by taking rules as a matter of life and death, their own interpretations of course
Very well said
My local hobby store used to be pretty casual until it got taken over by these two Egyptian looking guys who started sending people into the Warp whenever someone loses a children's tabletop game against them.
THIS IS NOW A ULTRAMAR GAME
This comment went from kind to maybe racist to hilarious so fast
I play 40k, AOS, and LOTR. Mostly AOS lately because both my armies were just updated (KO and Lizards). We don't have any other armies at my house and no opponents due to quarantine. So I wrote rules and stats for all my LOTR armies to play in AOS just to play against variety.
Posting at 3 am? Thanks for all the consistent and awesome content. Your channel brought me into the hobby in fall 2017 and I’ve loved it every second since.
Who sleeps regular hours in this age?
This felt like the introduction to a series of videos about game hacks, custom rules and variations. Maybe devoting a short video to examples. As a perpetual rule hacker, I would love to see what others have done to modify the rules of their miniature games.
In wh40k 6th my group started using average dice (2-3-3-4-4-5) for some rolls, like charge rolls to remove at least a little bit of the stupid, unpredictable randomness from key events and make the game more interesting. It worked like a charm!
It would be probably the choICe with today's wh40k rules to limit its extremes (damage rolls for example) but the general conclusion nowadays is that to avoid stupid, unpredictable, player-agency destroying randomness the best choice is not to play Games Workshop games altogether ;)
First off, great shirt. Secondly, I started playing Blitz Bowl with my daughter and we love it. We are starting to make our own teams and players. Squig Blitz Bowl team!
Good vid. On the GW podcasts (Stormcast and Voxcast), when rules writers are on, they've often said that modding their work is what they want people to do for their 'casual' games. The three ways of playing idea was to help people dip their toe into adapting the games to the players' preferences, creating narratives, making the game their own and so on.
We used to have a 'peeking out' house rule for first edition Necromunda.
Because line-of-sight was determined from a model's head, you couldn't normally fire around a vertical wall corner and still remain in full cover when the target fired back (unless you had a model that was leaning).
So we would declare that the model was 'peeking out' around the corner, and was automatically in full cover when the target fired back, but in partial cover to any flanking model.
We could have just measured from the base but this way seemed more realistic and led to a lot of tactical flanking moves, which was fun.
I haven't played the latest incarnation of Necromunda so I don't know if the 'peeking out' rule would still apply.
Love the idea of an overpowered “boss” coming in later in a game!
In Moba's they put a boss in the middle of the map that sometimes gives bonuses or rewards that you fight over. You could make an objective spawn a boss unit on say turn 3 or 4 under the control of whoever held that objective
J That sounds great! I will have to do some reading up on this!
It worked for BattleTech with the addition of the Clans...
As much as I enjoy certain tabletop games and the existing rule sets there's definitely added enjoyment by tweaking or creating house rules and homebrews, either for added fluff, enjoyment or just a bit of added chaos. Much like the video on prolonging your enjoyment of a game with campaign play etc there's a reason that game creators encourage it.
I LOVE that shirt! What your speaking of are the 3 ways to play. GW has been making great narrative play rules for AoS that most people just skip over in the GHB’s. I understand wanting the competitive rigidity of mathched play. But i have been looking more and more into narrative play. My favorite small/skiemish game is combat patrol with adepticon rules for 40k. It is heavily modified and A LOT of fun. Brought it back home and people loved it. GW tells people to tweek the rules a lot are twitchy about it after years of rules rigidity. Great topic, keep up the great work, stay safe and healthy.
My friends and I have sometimes played Warhammer 40k games, but using the turn sequence for Kill Team.
The alternation of actions makes the game incredibly fun, and it actually provides some balance that is otherwise hard to get in regular 40k.
This all goes back to how old Warhammer Fantasy was played, long ago. Where phases were alternated, and you had to outmaneuver your opponent and plan ahead better.
The main benefit to Kill Team turns is that it mitigates the imbalance that the regular game has for the second player. Getting wiped out turn one becomes harder, when you can either outmaneuver your opponent, or damage him before he destroys you.
Another great video, thanks! I find that a new rule set is often the inspiration/motivation for me to start a new project, rather than new figure ranges. As you say I get enjoyment from trying out new rules, just to see how they work.
i've found Warcry an excellent system for homebrewing rules in, new monsters, new units, new abilities, new scenarios, missions, campaigns, real easy to get into making new rules, adding new complexity if you want.
i do enjoy creating new things in tabletop games as much as i enjoy any other part of the hobby or gaming.
My first tactical game was Avalon Hills Feudal, the Squad Leader, that’s how I got into miniatures ( micro scale for squad leader). Rules I found usually came down to gentleman agreements, especially because I often introduced people to the war game hobby. I’m just getting into the miniature side of 40k, trying to figure out all the rules books. Seems you need to have a personal library just for a faction, they need to make it easier to get a handle of the rules for beginners.
I really wish more miniature gamers (and manufacturers) would understand this. So much of the community dialogue in-line is dominated by discussions over tournament rules and the idea of playing more casual and varied games using these rule sets and models is dismissed as “do whatever you want in casual games.” But playing non-competitive games and experimenting with the rules provides such an enormous play space that fits with the history and origins of miniature war games. I think people worry way too much about organized play rules.
That’s one reason I’m really thrilled with Atomic Mass Games and Marvel: Crisis Protocol. Their organized play is built around casual and narrative okay and they have released two sets of rules for alternate play scenarios.
I've been gaming since the late '60's (damn, I'm old). I've only played in a tournament once, and that was quite enough for me.
My wife's relatives are very committed to their Clue house rules and after 15 years of trying I have given up trying to change them. Especially as they are now being taught to my own children.
The one with the biggest/nicest beard gets the initiative ♥
I just bought an Iwata eclipse and silverjet thanks to you Atom
NICE!!!!!!! good choice on the air brush!
Spot on, my friends and I skip the scouting phase in Kill Team as well. Never liked the feel of it.
Another cool topic Atom! While I understand adhering rigidly to a ruleset in order to play competitively, I find narrative games with a few house-rule tweaks makes a game more enjoyable.
Battletech was a ruleset my freinds and I ruthlessly pared down to make a playable game with four players, four mechs each, all your mech stats on one sheet, and could be completed in an evening without inducing migraines. When my group plays Gaslands, we just show up with the cars we feel like using and hang the cost in cans. If the game gets won by the guy who brought a 120 can team, that guy gets ribbed pretty badly, and more often than not, that guy gets ganged-up on by the other players, negating their advantage in points!
Anyway, there isn't a " rules police" ( although I am accused of such behavior) that will raid your "illeagal" game and prosecute you for the crime of breaking the rules!
Thanks for the video, look forward to the next one!
If you enjoy modifying rule sets Tabletop Wargames by Rick Priestly and John Lambshead is a great resourse for understanding the nuts and bolts of a rule set.
I'm currently reading that in 2022 due to myself designing two rulesets.
Thanks, Unc! Right as usual and a great time to bring this subject up.
Wargames originated under the request of a prussian general for the creation of a method to test tactics without moving hundreds of soldiers around, a way he could develop new tactics from his room without enemy spies seen his troops moving and deducing his new ideas before he implemented them. Throughout the centuries it was brought to civilian use, where it branched into fantasy, historical, scifi etc scenarios, but, to this day, military officers keep an up to date wargame so they can develop their tactics and stratagems (though it is mostly digital nowdays). I believe the idea of the rules being “set in stone” comes from this origin and implementation, you can't just say “but I think it will be funnier if melee works like that” to a prussian general testing if he can order an cavalary charge against a cannon, the rules need to represent reality. Periode. Of course, this ignores that as reality changes, the rules change, USA’s navy had to remodel their game after the introduction of torpedo bombers between WW1 and WW2, and that IS a change in rules.
For civilian use though, it is completely fine to change the rules when you are not planning an operation upon which the lives of hundreds,if not thousands of people depends on the accuracy of the game.
Great video :)
I remember the Mordheim days when you kinda had to house rule to make the game playable. The same goes for many other skirmish games I've played over the years.
infinity though 😏
interesting idea about seize the initiative rule. That part of the game always felt a little swingy. Since most of the time it depends on who sets up first there is a element of strategy when building a list if you place down some models as a full unit or individual. Then its negated before the game starts on a roll of 6. But since its only a roll of 6 its rare and because its rare it feels like a whole gaming session is effected by an "out of game" source. That is jut me though, so its cool to think of the option to make an adjustment, even if it seems obvious I never thought about changing it till now, so thanks!
P.S. awesome shirt.
I love playing the old ramshackle rule for Ork Trukks from 5th edition 40k. Always makes for a fun and sometimes crazy out come for your destroyed Ork Trukks.
I once had a WH40k game, that was not so great. My shooting phases were bad, so I did no damage, and my saves were epic so I took no damage. Basicly nothing spectacular happened in that game. After a missed shoot with one of my Leman Russ Battle Tanks, which had a commander with a Chainsword on its top, I was so angry and just said "he throws in anger his chainsword at your guy". My opponent found that idea funny, so he let me do it and that brought back a bit the fun in the game, becuase from then on every round that guy threw another chainsword at his enemies.
In noncompetative play while it is true that if you have fun you’ve accomplished your goal, but having a reasonably potent army and being reasonably good is still relevant because even if you’re just playing for fun if you rarely or never win that will take a significant amount of fun away from playing for most people.
I liked your seize the initiative idea, about having an element of risk involved. Although I am normally the sort of person if I know I'm going 2nd I will always deploy defensively making it difficult for my opponent to see me. If I seize then it also means I have to move my models so before I can shoot, affecting my heavy weapons, rather than making my opponent have to manoeuvre to hit me. So I won't normally seize the initiative.
The Adepticon rules for kill team were a big help - we found the missions much more balanced than those in the box.
I played 40K with some friends who built a thematic battle scenario for a more lore-friendly Space Marines vs. Orks battle - 2000 points of Orks vs. 1000 points of Space Marines, back when 3rd edition rules were still the latest ruleset for the game. There was a set of house rules to make this imbalance in force strength make sense. The most important ones were:
-Ork shooting was nerfed, by mandating that they reroll all hits.
-Terminators got a "2+ save with 5+ invulnerable reroll" instead of "2+ save with 5+ invulnerable save".
-Space Marine Scouts could treat their cover save as a reroll of their armour save.
Good times.
I wrote my own Carcharodon Astra Codex, because Carcharodons are badass and they need a bad ass codex
"You can't play 40k third edition against 40k seventh edition." -Atom
"That sounds like a challenge to me." -Half the people listening
"Hold my juice box..."
That's literally 3rd to 6th ed though. Remember how many armies wouldn't get a codex for an edition or even 2?
ohhhh its possible.....messy but possible....
Me and my mate fighting eachother with dreadnought megazords and Jumppack Gorkanauts: The code is more of a guideline than a rulebook laddie
I mostly play and run tabletop RPGs, and in almost every game we tweak book rules and introduce house rules, mostly because almost every system has something that just doesnt make sense or doesn't work for some situations. Bit that's almost always in a group of people who know each other well, and it isn't competitive. When I play 40k or other wargames at my local store though, even though I usually know the person I'm playing, it's often not as close a relationship as our RPG group, and there's a much bigger pool of people playing, so it makes it much harder to consistently have house rules.
Back in my college days (aka the dark ages), we house ruled a good chunk of Necromunda, just because we did not like the campaign system, and some things that we found odd in the rules. (IIRC, it started with there not being a difference between jumping down 2" and falling down 2", or something minor like that. In the end, it was some 40-odd pages of rewrites and tweaks.) I'd love to get a regular game going and do that sort of thing again
Uncle Atom needs to make a video about tips on curating really cool shirts!
Hahahahaha!!! You know what makes us new games? Houserules!!! ON a side note if there ever will be something like Hall of Fame for wargaming videos this one for sure gets the spot in the top 10! Stay safe y'all!!!!
Me and my friends tend to ignore certain FAQs as house rules in a kind of "I recognize the council has made a decision, but given it's a stupid ass decision, we have elected to ignore it." For instance in the Ork FAQ, it says infantry embarked on the battlewagon can't benefit from the moving fortress ability, even though nothing in the rules says they shouldn't benefit from it. Also the Greater Good FAQ for scion regiments, despite the rules being written so that they deliberately keep their militarum tempestus keyword and gain the tempestus regiment, so they get both their storm troopers and tempestus regiment buffs if taken in their own detachment, or at least stay battleforged in a regular regiment detachment and get a scion regiment as well. Well, the FAQ just said bollocks to all that for again, no reason. We just operate under the rule that unless its errata'd, we ignore it if the FAQ explains something as counter to how it's written.
@@XYZdude00 No dude, playing rules as written and intended is not exploiting. If the rule is actually changed it's errata'd, if it's not errata'd then the rule should be played as written regardless. That's how GW's own system is meant to work, errata for rule changes, FAQ is meant to clear up inconsistencies or ambiguous wording, for instance clarifying that mortifiers get 15 attacks with two penitent flails, people believed it was possibly overpowered, but GW clarified it wasn't. FAQs are not meant to be "even though it's written like this, you need to do the opposite because we've now changed our minds about it." If anything you are the one trying to exploit it by taking these FAQs as gospel and getting people to play what is actually counter to the rules.
OMG I love that shirt!
I am really looking forward to try a more Mortheimesque rulset for Killteam I wrote we will see when that will happen. Also I want to point the number one question out I encountered through years of playing: "Can I blow this (mostly a piece of terrain) up?" And at first this was an awesome idea but at close examination often posed a disadvantage for only one player. So if anybody is out there with a well working "Let's blow it up!" mission where both players can enjoy the mushroom cloud let me know.
In my area we give more chance to save. If you have a 6+ on a armor save you pass if you roll a 6 regardless of modifiers. No pushing to a 7+ save.
Slightly off topic - tip for parents with kids who are just getting into real boardgames (meaning they need to be able to read) - surprisingly many games can be played "good-enough" if everyone takes their turn simultaneously. The kids don't loose interest, it's always happening. Settlers, Carcassonne, Colonizing Mars, Runebound all work for us. Ok, so you don't have to be able to read to play Carcassonne, I know that...
Great video! It's nice to see your inner grognard peeking out, be careful though or you'll be painting Napoleonics until the end of time. ;)
I have played many different rules and I have never liked one of them 100%. Usually just a tweak here or there and then I am happy. Luckily most of those I played with either didn't care and went along or agreed with me(or I with them). There are also some games I refuse to play because there is too much about the rules(or backstory) that I dislike. Never played tournament and doubt I ever will so I am good.
I really like your Tusken Raiders shirt.
Well done. Play the game not the rules. I "love" so-called rules lawyers who are usually very good at insisting when it's to their benefit.
Great video. Looking forward to this Sundays show. #shelterinhobby has been great. I hope you are doing well.
We skip the scout phase too. After using it a few times we decided it was pointless.
Have you had any thoughts on wargaming during this time of lockdown and social distancing?
Maybe people can concentrate on the research and modelling sides of our games but the actual gaming?
Solo wargaming... Pa-Chow: th-cam.com/video/e1rq8QnEPkk/w-d-xo.html
Except that Tabletop Simulator exists.
good, I'm not alone changing the original rules in my home games :)
Always appreciate your videos! Gives my mind or you much needed temporary distraction while I am working on the Covid unit in the hospital!
It’s a good idea to look at the rules that are vague, and there’s always some. Try to find the writers intent then if you don’t agree , try to find what your group thins is right.
Glad to see I’m not the only one that thinks traditional seize the initiative is dumb. Why would you NOT want to seize the initiative? Basically the rule as it stands is rolling for who goes first twice with the advantage to the person who won it first.
awesome video! Love that T shirt!
Hello, looking for some guidance. I have little to no knowledge of this hobby. I recently purchased an estate with 100,000+ pewter miniatures. Mostly GHQ and Langton. A lot of micro armor. All are raw, unpainted. I also have 100+ boxed sets for various games. How would you recommend I go about selling these? I’m looking for the best method to find interested buyers as I resell for a living. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
ebay
I want a miniatures ruleset that's like Calvinball or Toon.
For the modelling and paint parts of the hobby, there is no rule. At all.
There are only a lot of good practices which are dependent of the circonstances (what you want to achieve in a given time frame, techniques you know, paint types you have, money you can spend in the hobby, etc.)
Basically when we learn "how to", we follow a set of best practices discovered by experienced hobbyists. But those are no rules, just the most appropriate good practices we should follow if we want to obtain a nice result with beginner-friendly techniques.
I think I read more rulebooks than novels, I love reading rulebooks
I absolutely HAVE to have that shirt. I'll sell family members if need be. Someone please point me in the correct direction.
I have far bigger enjoyment creating rulesets, mechanics and systems than actually playing the games ... they never really have what I want .. so I just change them!
It’s fun.. but sometimes I just create games and never actually play them (I got like ~4 different alternative 40k skirmish rules with two completely different systems for hitting shots ...) but creating them is still fun so I guess.. I guess it doesn’t really matter..
Hopefully people I play with are fine with an epic 40k rhino on a 120mm base
I'm a firm believer that if rules get in the way of what you want to do: change them. Many people frown upon house rules, but for me they actually add a lot. True, they may unbalance the game a bit, but if you're all having fun then why not. Same goes for roleplaying games in my opinion. The rules are an aid, nothing more.
As Reggie said "if its not fun, why bother?"
I love that shirt
Ceasing the initiative is no longer a thing in 8th .
A change I really approve of.
Love the shirt. :D
I´ve been tinkering with 40k 8th edition rules:
- Put in the unit activation like in Bolt Action (Unit by Unit, randomly drawn)
- Put in 4th ed. 40k Morale rules - Astartes do not run! (Only traitors do ;) )
What are your thoughts?
Axel Horneff I think you would really like Infinity.
We use the insane courage rule from GW in our 9th age game.
Took the good stuff out of wh40k 8th ed and made it a bit more 7th. Works great for us.
I am here. I am now.
I think most GSC players prefer to go second. So saying you don’t “almost never want to” isn’t really accurate. It’s not that rare if you are playing a GSC.
I find I have to discuss the rules of the game with my opponents before playing Tau. Their codex is a Fustercluck and Tau aren't fun to play against.
What rules in the tau codex are confusing. And if they are confusing what is more confusing than any other codex. The two I could see being annoying is drone rules and overwatch. That is not annoying or hard to understand and if this is the issue there are ways to work around both.
Hmm... painting with motor oil? Maybe "used" applied as a wash? Would possibly add an interesting effect to a model! Go Raiders! (nice shirt!)
i would be worried about it's affects on the plastic and paint, plastic is also made from crude oil.
Any advice on trying to change the rules when it comes to power gamers or the people who want to keep the rules the same because they spent a lot of money?
Shadowcat6lives, if you want to fiddle with rules you need to get buy in from everyone involved. If you start by assuming someone’s motivations to be reluctant, you will fail.
@@nunyabidness3075 Those are some wise words. Thank you for them. I must admit that I recalled the darker times of 40k when thinking about the question?
When I play middle earth strategy battle game with my friends we always double the max units per hero or just ignore the obligation all together. Having to cram extra orc captains to a list sucks because theyre hardly worth the points and pretty wasteful in an army like mordor where you want sheer numbers. My friend plays the dead of dunharrow so he doesn't need to adhere to the rule in the first place.
Awesome that you play lotrsbg. Question for you, do you feel that having less leaders changes the balance of the game?
Shadowcat6lives it puts way more focus into formation and strategic placement because theres nobody to really get you out of a tough spot if things start going south. Your few heroes become really valuable because how powerful they are in comparison to your grunts but spell casters lose a some value because theres not that many targets (they still are the best way of dealing with enemy heroes tho). One thing is rolling buckets of dice like this can get kinda monotonous in larger point scales.
Is Tuskens for sale?
Going to play Hero Kids this weekend, with teenagers and children. RULES Mu ha ha ha ha ha. I feel the role of UN peace keeper will be mine. Barbies - Emerald Dragon will bring the emperors justice to nighthaunt and wolverine the hunter alike.
An important lesson
What do you think about Seize the Initiative being a universal strategem that costs 1CP? Or maybe if you try to Seize and fail, you lose 1 CP.
40k rules are fundamentaly fucked so don't even bother 😂😂😂
Honestly, this advice works for tabletop roleplaying games as well.
You just don't know l I've done rules fixing since at least. Panzer blitz and WRG Ancients in 1973 and became annoyed by the excuses and arrogance of such as Dunnigan and Barker. So,I stick with Korns and Terrain Griffith and otthers who do umpired games with few, rules And very little information
the're really more like guidelines, anyway.
Is this real life?
no
Alex is this just fantasy?
I believe it is TH-cam?
No escape from reality.
Skipping the SCOUT PHASE........ Heresy (40kish)...... depends on the army you play how important it is to your army...so about Uncle Tom STICKERS........hummmmm
Advocating rules!? That's not punk rock. (Just kidding)
Everything you say sounds like you are complaining. Like your default mode of communication is whining. Even about things you arent complaining about. Its frustrating haha.