Are you trying to tell us that there are enormous social, economic and even environmental benefits to - long term planning? - designing attractive street scapes? - mixed use developments? - mixed density zoning? It's almost as if Indiana has un-forgotten 10.000 years of human urban history. Cynicism aside, I really love what they are doing! Thanks for showing it to the world.
@@petergerdes1094 NYC does something very similar by taxing both property and land. Parking lots are hit with very heavy land taxes since Manhattan is very valuable, and empty lots are at a premium. The traditional flat parking won't break even on just the property tax even if they charge $100 for a day, so parking lots in the city are either garages integrated into a building, or use car lifts and valets as to fit 6 cars per parking space.
One also has to never forget that urban sprawl was the intended result, as a way to circumvent nuclear bombing of city centers Its quite selfgratifying to think it was all done for no reason
The magic is that their approach isn't antagonistic to drivers and cars. It's a way to "have your cake and eat it too" as a first step toward urbanizing desirable parts of the suburbs.
the suburbs of Vancouver and Toronto is also a good model. We use high frequency buses (15 minute local buses, 5 minute BRTs) as the backbone of the system, and we also opportunistically redevelope suburban areas that are getting rapid transit. I think buses are really underappreciated online
@@1224chrisngThe problem with buses in the US is there is a highly negative stigma that they are unsafe, dirty, slow, filled with undesirables, etc. But they also create the need for regular bus shelters, special lanes, what have you that most communities here don't want.
. .... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus
This is great until you learn that they are against having a transit station in their community. So they aren't completely in-line with their politics of "government shouldn't tell you how to live". You don't really have the option to live a car-free life. So you have to live with a car in that town because you can't really anywhere else.
As a person from Europe, more specifically Denmark, this is amazing! I don't think it looks European, it has that perfect Americana feel that gives it personality. This is a place I would love to visit! 😍😍
You better start saving then. Carmel is one of the most expensive cities in America and the most expensive city in Indiana and they still have the most debt in the state
@@FATMAC2 "After an independent review, Reedy Financial Group concluded the City of Carmel’s debt load is reasonable and plans to pay it down are sound. Gary Smith, a CPA with the firm, presented the final report to the Carmel City Council during a special meeting held Sept. 26 at City Hall. “There are not really any key findings or things to be concerned about,” Smith said."
@@FATMAC2Expensive means high demand. And debt is fine if it is an investment which will pay off. So, you're basically just saying that it is a place that businesses and people want to be in, and that they actually invest in the future of the place. Ok
@@FATMAC2 Carmel is by no means cheap, but it is also far from being "one of the most expensive cities in America". The cost of a house in Carmel would look downright cheap to anyone living on the west coast.
Carmel is definitely a great example for smaller towns, and probably the greatest example of how parking is probably the biggest waste of spaces in downtown areas. However, given how much more expensive underground parking is than surface parking its probably cheaper to eliminate some (but not all) and operate a small bus route.
A town near me did something similar, and the effects have been mixed. While the bus is definitely getting use, there's more car traffic than ever before. The street was changed from one-way with diagonal parking to two-way with parallel parking (half as many spaces). A few businesses relocated from the main strip or closed entirely because of a lack of parking, but nearly all have been replaced with new businesses. They put a raised bike path between the sidewalk and parking, and there's definitely more people biking, scooting & skateboarding. There are unfortunately many (particularly older) residents who refuse to go downtown because of the lack of parking, and because they're afraid of damaging their cars on the curb extensions. Overall I would say that the aesthetics of the area have improved significantly, but the tangible impacts have been minimal.
Carmel does not care about cost. They just barrow the money from the state and build build build! Plus, they have worked really hard to keep away the types of people you might find on a bus.
@@JakobHill Generally speaking street parking does not make a difference in the success of most businesses, and we know this for two reasons. The first is that only 1 or 2 cars fits on the street parking in front of a business, which usually isn't enough through traffic to sustain the business. What this means is typically their customer base (if they were driving) were parking at private lots or side streets further away, so the one spot probably never accounted for a large amount of customer foot traffic. The second is that most small businesses don't build parking unless they're made to. Obviously it's different if you're a road side dinner off a highway vs a bar in a city, but generally speaking businesses build parking only if its worth it unless they're made to build parking by zoning laws.
Here in Australia its common for big store to build the store above the parking. So you get sheltered parking and the store is protected in flood prone areas because its much higher than others built at ground level.
That is common in the urban core of a big, or bigger city. It is very common to see a super market built above the parking lot, it just isn't as common in the suburbs.
@@austinlawler3739 Correction: That's common on the East and West Coasts of the USA. You're not going to see such in Nashville Tennessee or even Charlotte NC or Atlanta GA ......even though the Metro area contains millions of people & have a lot of flood hazards.
Here in New Zealand too. though you commonly get a store with heaps of parking underneath AND a big surface parking lot, and then people fight for the last space outside without even considering going down under (forgive the pun). It's hilarious to see every space full outside and 3/4 of the underground parking empty.
Yes. Bunnings the big box hardware store's standard design for all new stores is for all parking to be under the store. (Also customers prefer under cover parking because of the heat)
Las Vegas, NV does this for many of the casinos on the Strip. Fun fact they also rebuilt the entire sewage/water reclamation system after the Strip was flooded in the 70s. Area gets ALOT of monsoon-style flash rains/floods.
I shot some of the footage in September 2023 when I was there, and it was pre-Class II vest. So I had to film to match. Only one video left with the old vest before it's more-or-less retired.
@@FATMAC2On the long haul, this will make more money as old people will have a better life in a densified comunity where they can walk and be healthier. If done properly, more people will want this kind of life. And you are forgetting the infrastructurw costs for spread housing: roads, pipes, electricity etc. Who pays for that? In a way, spread communities are subsidized.
@@FATMAC2 Short-term debt to reach long-term solvency. The reason most cities in this country are going bankrupt is because they've never made long-term investments like this. They take the quick payouts that just balloon their maintenance budget after a few decades. Most cities operate like pyramid schemes. Carmel is operating like an investor.
I think Carmel is a great example of what small communities can do to fix up their towns and make them liveable again in America. Somewhere like NYC has the money, the influence and the infrastructure to do a war on cars and so they should. But a small town in Indiana doesnt. It is much more viable to attempt to densify and reduce reliance on cars for local trips, instead of trying to remove cars all together because they couldnt do that all by themselves.
Exactly. This approach is not for Boston, NYC, etc. But it's great for suburbs who want to develop a dense downtown or Transit-Oriented Development village around their city's commuter rail station. It's giving people options. Most will still live in single-family houses. But now there's a big commercial tax base to help. And a cool walkable place for those who want to buy or rent in an area that's different from the rest of the suburbs. It's really a win-win that gives maximum choice/freedom to everyone.
@@RoadGuyRob I don't see how this approach "isn't for NYC"? The congestion tax doesn't do anything to solve the last-mile-adjacent transit problems cars do. Sure, the subway is great - but... how does someone from outside the city _get_ to the trains? That's an unsolved problem.
@@theboldfuture2341 nearly all of the transit in the NYC area interfaces with the subway. My dad used to take a bus from a commuter station in nj into the port authority bus terminal and then take the subway or walk to his office depending on where in the city his current job was. A friend of mine takes the PATH train every day and then walks like 2 blocks to his job.
Plot twist: When everything is built densely with mixed use areas and parking garages, the people living there will start walking or biking instead of driving and eventually forget that they have a car waiting in the garage, feeling abandoned. 😢
@@MustraOrdo well, the car will be sad... until the owner realises they're wasting a lot of money on parking they don't need to and gets rid of it (assuming the parking costs money).
This is Road Guy Rob's best video yet! Carmel gets it! This TIF and new urbanism model takes advantage of the two different financial time lines of a private versus public entities. I like to walk but need my car so this gets it. The challenge here is convincing voters that single family zoning carriers a huge long term cost that we are barely catching. I live on two acres and have to drive everywhere. My wife believes that two acres is worthwhile but all it does it create yard work for me. A smart design like those in this video convinces me we must rethink.
Yes, the problem many activists have is they focus too much on the altruistic aspects of whatever they are advocating for, and never provide a solid business plan for achieving what they want to achieve. If you want cities and towns to become more dense, the best way to do this is not to argue about the pros and cons of one style of building over another. The best way to do this is to present a method for increasing taxes while decreasing tax burden. Simply money talks louder than anything else, and if you can make an economic argument you are going to be much more likely to convince someone than an altruistic argument.
I don't believe the math of this new urbanism. The project in this video has very little housing compared to office. I think that is why it pencils out for the city to forego the incremental tax for 30 years - the office does not demand schools and demands very little police and fire protection, unlike housing. The problem of where the vast majority of those office workers will be commuting in from and how their needs will be funded is pushed aside. I also don't believe that public works is bankrupting suburbia. It's maybe 10% of a typical budget. The biggest costs are payrolls - teachers followed by police and fire. Those are more proportional to the population than the land area.
Businesses would build much, much smaller parking lots if they weren't mandated to build them to city code. Another crazy thing - Bars are frequently required to provide a minimum amount of parking. Would make a lot more sense to make sure bars are located near public transit so people have a convenient alternative to driving home.
If you want to consider what is best for society, it would be to have no bars. Alcohol is bad for health, including mental health and causes a lot of societal problems. If we are going to put up with having bars, maybe move them out of the city where parking isn't an issue.
Sounds like your city council and city planner have to be REALLY hands on for this to work. To the point they’re actually actively curating the specific look of the city block by block. Carmel obviously did it well, but are there examples out there of when this fails?
I would love to see an example of TIF implemented badly. It would make a cautionary tale of what mistakes a city needs to avoid. I'm sure there are examples, but I don't know one off hand.
This could actually be a really good option for underfunded/inexperienced small-medium cities that are trying to get transit. Operating transit gets cheaper and easier with higher densities, so if this can ramp up the density, it can make running transit cheaper and easier in the future.
If transit runs to places with a lot of people (walking distance), then more people are willing to use transit (walking distance). It's a good cycle. Indianapolis does not have a regional light-rail system. So, this can also work without transit.
Carmel is the opposite of underfunded though. The solution for true broke cities is micromobility. Bike lanes and scooters are far cheaper than garages. Bikes can handle big suburban distances as is. Over time, demand for infill will increase.
@@FATMAC2 Seems an independent review of the cities debt says otherwise. In general, densifying always increases cities revenue over their infrastructure cost, the financially irresponsible thing would be to NOT do what they did (like most suburbs). This part of the city will likely end up being the economic power house that allows the rest of this suburban city to thrive.
I love love LOVE this, its not saying, "cars are the problem, lets get rid of them", its actually creating a genuine solution that works while still allowing the convenience of cars.
@@seantroy3172And considering there are people who can’t walk or bike to the store, it’s nice to not put them on house arrest w/o the freedom afforded by their car.
@@bethmichaels8410sure, and then this person in your example probably is going to have some mobility assist device (walker, scooter, wheelchair) and gets to enjoy the much more accessible and pedestrian friendly area created here. Though I think the framing that someone in the USA will become trapped because small downtown areas are more pedestrianized is inaccurate. The mayor talks about several adjacent lots that very car centric. But its nice that Multiple modes of transportation are accommodated here. Who knows, maybe that person who can’t drive will want to move to one of those townhouses or apartments because they realize they don’t need to rely on their car for everything.
Only a car-brained idiot would think people are trying to get rid of cars. Go to any other country with better walkability, bike-friendly cities with good public transit and you will still see cars. In fact, some of these countries produce better cars than we do ironically. 😅 The people who think they’re trying to get rid of cars are the people who like to drive fast and often times recklessly and whine when city planners try to slow them down or do something in an attempt to reduce traffic congestion
@@bethmichaels8410Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus
At minimum, set *reasonable* parking minimums. Other than Costco here in California, I've never seen a suburban big-box parking lot get beyond 50% occupied. The minimum requirements are WAY too much. And customers and businesses are stuck eating the cost.
@@RoadGuyRob I feel like one way to make parking minimums more reasonable is for them to count any parking within walking distance of a new development towards reducing the minimum, I cannot count the number of places I've seen where they install hundreds of parking spaces for a new development despite there being a parking lot right next door that's almost always empty.
Ban minimums, let businesses decide what style of parking works best for them. There's a reason parking lots in the heart of Manhattan use car lifts. You can't break even on the property tax with just flat parking.
@@RoadGuyRob The ITE parking guide would need a serious revamping, as would reshaping city officials views on what these recommendations are, rather than taking it as gospel.
I have lived in singapore for about 8 months over the last 4 years. I LOVE their style, tall buildings right by each other, easy to walk, AND you get tons of parking, most of the time underground. So if you MUST drive, you can, and for those that walk or use transit, you can.
Singapore literally has a cap on the number of cars it allows in the country. It costs tens of thousands just to get one of the limited permits. Only the ultra wealthy own cars.
Unlike a lot of other channels, I appreciate you being balanced saying cars and drivers aren't nessessarily the enemy, but badly planned infasturcture is. When thoughtfully planned, car infastructive can still fit into a city that benefits everyone, motorists, commuters and pedestrians included.
because we've just been flooded by so many far right socialists calling themselves libertarians, who don't actually support freedom. they only support THEIR freedom, and when others make their own free choices that do not benefit them, they lash out and run to daddy government to ban it or pass more regulations.
@@_DB.COOPER liberals, the far left, and far right do not believe in universal freedom though. I can give so many examples of each being in favor of policies that reduce freedom. liberals want to censor speech of their opponents, while indoctrinating children with wokeness, the far left wants to abolish capitalism and have the state take over everything, and the far right wants to legislate their own morality and religion, while hypocritically not following ANY of their own morals and religious laws they want to impose on others.
This is an interesting urbanism use case, most of the urbanism videos are just here to show you that cars are evil that destroy it all and you should ban it and only talk about trains and bike trails! - but maybe there is a cool middle of way of doing it that will allow you to enjoy the freedom of a car but live in a nice place.
I think what's also interesting about this video is that he's saying this from a car/road guy's perspective as well. I like these way more than those kind of urbanist-ey type videos if you know what I mean. Watching them kinda make me feel guilty to own a car. But this video shows something more like a common ground. We have a choice to choose our transport modes, and I love it!
This solves one of several problems cars bring to cities, and it is good ingenuity. I know Carmel also has a strip of uninterrupted roundabouts to help with congestion, though I doubt that's widespread enough to make a huge impact (and makes walking & cycling harder). The problems not addressed are safety, noise pollution, and air pollution. But hey, at least you're hiding the cars a little better :/
This is amazing. Just today after a job interview, I decided to walk to a nearby restaurant instead of driving there. The majority of my walking was through empty parking lots since it was during the middle of the day in a restaurant district while people are at work. In America, we may not be able to entirely eliminate parking minimums, however, more densely packed parking such as what is shown in this video is a great compromise.
11:25 You see the narrowest street ever, I see a regular-sized street using European design language. It might have problems for wider American cars, but otherwise, yeah, all our regular one-way European streets are roughly that width.
@@marcadiadd5681 Smaller fire trucks carry less stuff. When it comes to saving lives, you can never have too much equipment or too much capacity. American fire trucks are the best.
@@bwofficial1776 there’s a great not just bikes video call “how American fire departments are getting people killed” you should check out might change your mind on that
Socialists can’t predict or really imagine a business failing because in their mythology an entrepreneur is some kind of invulnerable devil that they have to fight until the end of time.
I get so tired of people arguing about more bike lanes less parking lots. But i haven't taken public transport in about 6 years and i don't miss it. If i was given the choice of having to drive 1 hour in traffic or take a 30 minute bus ride, i would ALWAYS take the car. People can make as many arguments as they want for this but it doesn't change the fact that cars make you feel secure and are guaranteed to run on your schedule.
It's always people who have never been forced to use it. It's an intellectual exercise for them, they're never speaking from personal experience. Go take the metro in Miami and then tell me how aMaZiNg public transit is
@elpusegato I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes this, there's no way these people are waiting for nyc buses for it to drive past the stop and getting packed into those densely filled trains. Smallest weather inconveniences causing ridiculous late scheduling for buses. I remember I was 15, I waited around 40 minutes for the only bus that could take me home, walking would've taken nearly 2 hours
This is really a great video. But in indiana you have to deal with snow removal. One of the best ways that you can do this is Add steam lines through all the open surfaces. Steam produces heat that heats the surface 🔥 heat that melts the snow. There is no need for costly snowremoval every year
I always thought in cities, why not build over parking lots, bottom story parking, and over that, businesses. But this is a interesting blend between Euro walkable cities and US driving cities. I think this works great because public transportation will never become huge in the US, it's too unreliable, ridged, dirty, no privacy, and it's inconvenient. (Coming from a former bus driver the idea of using public transportation every day is a nightmare)
I like how Carmel's city character is still American, and how you can still drive places if you want. It's something more cities and towns around the country should copy. Great video Rob!
It's nice finally to see a city that does something instead of talking about it. The government can't solve all of the problems, but they're solving the ones that they can solve.
Return ZONING to MIXED use such as Japan, Europe to allow residential above commercial (grocery stores, offices, etc) to increase urban density and UTILITY to the 15 minute WALKABLE city and the COVER any space with solar panels to protect cars from scorching heat, snow, rain AND provide electricity which will pay for itself quickly 🏆
Zoning had a lot to do with that. In most (American) places you CAN'T put homes above businesses anymore, so most people have to live an unreasonable distance away from basics like food stores. It's seriously stupid city planning!
It's big government policies. Those are big government policies that socialists love, while they complain about it. Isn't it ironic how government getting into our business actually ruins things more for everyone?
I have never heard a socialist say "boy I really wish the govt would stop me from living above a bank or a grocery store". What specifically do you think socialists would like about this policy?
@@spacecaptain9188 most socialists are unable to see the big picture, so they would never even be able to correlate the choice of a policy to an unintended outcome. They give their agency over to a government program and then have no idea how it runs or even why decisions are made. They just live with the results. That's what he means by big government policies. A government entity without a face and all the power to push a common person to the side in the name of progress. What that individual socialist likes at some point becomes irrelevant to the government once it's large enough to squash your voice. Ask a Yugoslavian about how they liked the car that they paid for back in the 80's because that was their only choice. How little people understand the world.
Man, I really have to give it to you. That is top notch Video production right there. Im not interested in Roads nor do I live in the US for that matter. But your engaging story telling really hooks me in. Its rare to see Videos about any topic with this quality. Keep up your awesome work, love it
Ought to convert some property rax to impermeable surface tax. Add a real cost to people just slapping down cement without thought. Force developers and landowners to be more thoughtful with what they put down. Also, potentially mitigate some flooding.
Maybe, but you'd also need parks and recreational areas that can become a local flood water/ excess run-off storage area, so having some level of full concrete area would be good
More taxes is never something that works. Less government is what works. Let people organically develop their cities like has always been done in the past.
The biggest problem with TIF is that no investor will accept a short-term cut in favor of long-term returns. They want the profits immediately. Look at Dodge v. Ford from 1919.
3:50 this is a guy who gets it! not everyone wants a large house in the suburbs, and allowing that choice to people certainly does offer more revenue opportunities
Wow, major props to Carmel! Their planning department is doing incredible things with the space. My jaw literally dropped at the last part when talking about how much stuff they built on the tiny plot of land. More of these in more cities please!!
Wow -- an approach to making places more walkable/bikeable, and attractive in the bargain, that isn't preachy. Some of the urbanist TH-camrs could learn a lot, one guy in particular. Anyway, well done Carmel & well done Rob.
You hit all the pros, but left out the cons. The whole redesign is over budget and behind schedule. They cut hundreds of apartments units out of their plan. The units being built do not match the demands of the demographics. Housing costs increased 30% in 2024 alone. Downtown business growth stagnated in 2024, largely due to traffic congestion.
@FATMAC2 so you're telling me my taxes are contributing to community centers, more beautiful streets, making the city accessible by both car and foot, and more? sign me up. of course carmel has a bunch of debt. it also has a model of financial growth that has been proven by cities across the planet and across literal millenia to be successful in the long term. the romans built aqueducts. the modern united states was enabled by the railroad. these are examples of investing in public goods. this isn't some new radical idea that will destroy cities. this is, definitionally, what a civilization is. citizens come together to invest in a shared community. what do you think taxes are for...?????????
Would love to see small towns do this too. Lots of towns here in eastern MA have main streets full of strip malls, with acres of parking lots lining the road instead of sidewalks, benches, and trees. They aren’t quite stroads, but they aren’t walkable either.
The cause of massive US parking lots is of course a lot more complicated than in your intro. The current ones are not that big because the shops want it but because the laws say they must be so. And the laws are all based around minimums not maximums. And if I were to guess, the original cause has to do with people failing to find parking being much more vocal than people finding too many parking spots and having to drive between locations as a result, but the reality is politics and government are complicated and it is just as possible that larger and larger parking lots are just a natural outcome of putting laws in place governing the minimum size of parking lots. The pencil pushers will always err on the side of caution and will keep increasing sizes. Again, they only get blamed when there is a large event and someone can't find parking whereas the downsides of large parking lots never get blamed on the policy makers that came up with them.
Ignoring the ideological reasons why I am against government mandated parking lot minimums. The issue here is that these laws don't go far enough. They just mandate the number of park spots, so obviously businesses are going to go with the cheapest option possible. These laws, if we are going to have them, should also limit how parking lots can be built so that they are forced to be built either, underground, behind the building, or as a parking garage.
@@evancombs5159 The government where this video is talking about, has done just that. But I think the next step should be to cut the parking spaces in half and instead provide public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. The reality is that other parts of the world that have a lot less parking are much more pleasant places to live and every country should be looking at getting closer to that design. It is clear that even in the location being discussed, there is far too much parking and the reason why is because everyone is too scared of being in trouble that one day that someone cant find a parking spot.
This is exactly what I have wanted to see in developments in DFW. We can't just have infinite parking lots surrounding strip malls, we need to densify and I know no one wants to have a big blocky parking structure looming next to their store so instead we wrap the garage in apartments/housing/shopping centers/offices. You get enough parking to include them with the rental units, have enough for retail uses and have some left over to provide off-street parking for other nearby uses.
Great video! So much prime land is locked behind car parking. In my city, we had small towns build around the railway lines, but as suburban sprawl happened and these towns were absorbed as suburbs in the big city, much of the land around the stations have been turned into park and ride car parks. Thankfully, the government is starting to convert more of these car parks into residential/ commercial developments.
Back in 2011, we visited Stockholm Sweden and stayed in a friend’s new apartment in Nacka, suburb of Stockholm. Their complex had two four story buildings that were mirror images of each other with large balconies that overlooked the space between the buildings, a lovely park and playground. Their complex parking was under the greenspace and was designed with direct access to the two buildings. The design fostered a real community sense, kept cars snow-free in the winter, provided security and gave children a safe place to play. In short, everything was well thought-out.
Road Guy Rob should look at Santana Row in San Jose California. the Santana Row developers took a low-density shopping mall (Town & Country Village), that had a large parking lot, and redeveloped it into a downtown like outdoor mall with the parking garages behind the stores.
This kind of thing is so common over here in Europe, it took me a while to even comprehend what you were so amazed by when you started swooning over the differently coloured bricks to delineate lanes and parking spaces.
I bet the reason the big box stores and offices with big parking lots already there not wanting to give up their land is building anything on the periphery that's a few stories tall means you can't see the building at all or as well anymore. And for a big box retail store, they probably feel having a clear line of sight to the main road means free advertising.
This only works in really rich cities. My city removed the brick roads downtown because the maintenance cost was 10x the maintenance cost of asphalt roads. You don't have to paint lines if you have a brick paved road with colored bricks for the lines but that road is going to cost way more in maintenance than repairing the road lines every 10 years.
What maintenance? A well-laid brick road will last at least 50 years before requiring any. Unlike asphalt, which deteriorates and breaks apart, stones just stay as they are. And if their bedding is implemented properly and is made to match the loads, they won't shift either.
8:40 TIF is a nice concept for building a parking garage. What pays for repairs to the parking garage after the structure has deteriorated for 30 years? At some point it will have to be closed for renovations. How will that impact the businesses that depend on it? Or are we taking the "that's a problem for future generations" approach?
With normal maintenance (clearing the drains, fixing leaks, cleaning etc.) a concrete parking structure can last 100+ years. Of course if you don't do anything for 30 years you shouldn't be surprised that suddenly all the rebar's gone rusted and needs very expensive concrete repairs or even demolition. Luckily it seems the city keeps a close eye on things with these projects and surely in the contracts it's specified that the building owner must do reasonable maintenance of the structure.
The developer or building owner is going to be making a lot more money by leasing out all that office space and apartments; than if they were leasing out only a single store. So that will pay for maintenance.
I'd imagine when it does require renovating that closing it won't be a massive issue as the end goal for this type of development and planning would be to have every building in walkable distance of eachother and to have all if not most buildings with businesses in them have parking incorporated. So if a single store needed repairs for a month or so than it'd be rather simple for them to have an agreement with their neighbours to use their parking.
The person who will pay for repairs to the parking floors is the same who also pays for the same repairs to the office and apartment floors, as well as the roof and the facade of the building.
Carmel is an excellent example of how a standard US suburb can transform itself into a town with character! The denser redevelopment gives the area a sense of place, instead of the typical nowhere land with a sense of no-place. And with some of the streets following Dutch design in their construction, it's abundantly clear that somebody there has been watching Not Just Bikes and taking notes!
With that density, public transit starts to become a reality as well. People will go "eh, I'm parked, I'll just take the bus, the tram once it comes, etc."
The key here is that if you have municipal parking, any business can have their customers park there and essentially share parking capacity collectively, but if you have private lot parking, EACH business (or plaza) must duplicate a full allotment of parking spaces. You wind up with so many parking spaces that a county could have 8 or more spaces for every registered vehicle. With so many municipal parking options that allow most business to have little or no parking themselves, Carmel might have a ratio of as little as 3 to 1.
I think the US could do with more shared parking lots. Often you have businesses next to each other with peak periods at different times. Grocery stores will have a peak period earlier than restaurants, for example, and hardware stores are more likely to have customers during the workday than after it. So the same parking lot could cater for multiple businesses at different times.
Stanford University charges employees to park in their empty lots and garages. So people stay home, cheat or park in hospital patient parking for free.
In my town it seems like TIF districts are being used to exclude new developments from contributing tax to road maintenance outside of their districts, while people in the rest of the town still have their tax contribute to road maintenance inside those TIF districts. Has anyone else heard of this? Nice that they are beneficial in Carmel but idk how I feel about them in smaller towns.
So basically a version of equity financing. But I personally prefer the Texas Donut just because its cheaper and compatible with more geographies. Nice to see an alternative to car less infill. The problem with pushing the parking utilization rate is you start needing sophisticated management to keep drivers from circling looking for a spot.
In Singapore, they have a parking system that shows the area's commercial building's parking count place on the main thoroughfare (Expressway) directly into the downtown area. Lots of buy in from the building's owner, but it kept the flow relatively smooth.
This is one of the problems I have when going to downtown Carmel. The parking is so well hidden I can't find it. They need to do a better job of making sure people know where the parking is, and which parking is free and which is not.
In Thailand, at least in the cities, the parking garage is at ground level and the supermarket is built above it: heavy cars are still on the ground, no need for heavy construction, and the cars are protected from the sun while they are parked.
Could the TIF plan lead to big hikes in rent or condo maintenance fees once the parking is paid off (30 years)? Or are there requirements from the government to ensure the finances aren't manipulated to let developers have low rents and fees at day 1? I'd be concerned that with increased taxes and increased maintenance fees as the buildings age, the development might only be attractive for the first 30 years when taxes are low.
i think he meant that taxes will stay the same (plus inflation) the entire time, but i suppose the city has to take out loans to build the parking garage itself for the first 30 years, which is paid off over time by the TIF. once it's paid off, those same taxes simply become more profit
My interpretation of this is that taxes are higher from the beginning which pays off the construction loan and then continues to be high after the construction loan is paid off forever. It's like a forever mortgage.
@@Tb0n3 No, that's not really what the video was saying. The basis for the 'higher taxes' isn't a higher tax rate, its higher land value. The higher land value stems from the fact that buildings generate more revenue per acre than a patch of asphalt with some lines painted on it does. Think of it like this: a normal Walmart might have 2x the area of the store itself allocated to parking. Stick the parking under the Walmart. In the space saved, you put in a Best Buy, a Home Depot, a bank, a set of doctor/dentist/lawyer offices, and a restaurant. In having all those businesses sitting in the same plot of land that would have just been a parking-lot you have caused the land value to skyrocket. But its fine because all those other businesses combined (including the original Walmart) are generating vastly more total revenue. The higher land value, taxed at the same rate, generates more money. You take the difference between this high value and what the value per acre would be if there were a giant parking lot and use that to pay for the hidden parking garage.
Hey road guy, Rob This makes me want you to do a video and golf carts in local cities. Fun fact about golf carts is that they were invented by a disabled golfer. That and I would love for you to come to Atlanta area see betlline, go too PreachTree City. A lot of people associate golf cart communities with The villages and while it is a golf cart community, it is not a technically a city. It's a unincorporated community.
Golf carts are just less efficient forms of electric bikes tbh. They're much bigger, slower, and much more expensive. I see new ones going for upwards of 8k
@@andrewlalis And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can ride a bike. A golf cart can carry four people or more, plus it has some load carrying capacity. They don't require balance and they have varying levels of weather protection.
What I worry about TIF usage though is funneling tax dollars away from other necessities such as fire dept, police, schools, etc. to pay off a loan, essentially
He mentioned this downside in passing, but yes, this is a concern with TIF. You have to consider the losses before the break even point to make sure the TIF is a wise investment. TIFs aren't free money.
I wondered that, too. Indiana law appears to be fairly strict. TIF has to make the project possible. If the project is possible without the TIF, it cannot qualify for TIF. And the tax revenue cannot go down compared to what was on the site beforehand. In the city's examples on their web site, few sites were $0/year. Most were re-developed and the existing tax rate continues. The difference is, after 25 years the new rate skyrockets. So right now Carmel isn't seeing the income, but from 2036 onward they will see enormous revenue.
If I understand it correctly, in theory you won't lose any current tax revenue, you are only delaying an increase in tax revenue that likely wouldn't exist if the redevelopment doesn't happen anyways. For a city the risk for any single project having negative tax consequences is essentially 0. The risk only comes into play when your city over leverages itself by being too aggressive, and taking on too many TIF projects.
@@evancombs5159 That's kind of the ideal world, and it sounds like Carmel actually is managing to get results close to that ideal. However, you do have to consider that "negative area" on the graph RGR drew - the costs of a single large TIF can become onerous. After all, you're supporting the increasing costs of the district on the existing tax revenue of the city. Another consideration is cannibalization - a city's existing businesses moving to the hot new TIF district. If you just get your city's businesses to move to take advantage of the nice new infrastructure, you lose their tax revenue but not their costs.
The city doesn't have to reduce taxes to zero. Even if they'd just reduce it to half, they'd still make more money than they had otherwise, as there will be 3 times the businesses on the same land.
The fact that different colour/direction tiles in the street tiling are considered luxury is just wild to me, bc that's standard nearly everywhere here in the Netherlands
When I lived in a downtown apartment with a parking deck I wanted the apartment doors to open directly to the parking deck. Like an old roadside motel where you park in front of the door. Also use the top floor of the parking deck as an outdoor space renters could use. Fake grass with potted plants. Outdoor couches to chill and look at the skyline.
Carmel is a great example of what people mean by "walkable cities" They don't want to get rid of cars, they just want it to be more accessible for walking/biking and having things closer together.
File's done. Time to post! (Actually, I had it done a couple of days ago for the contributors on Patreon. But I made a few last-minute changes based on the feedback over there).
12:00 "europe doesnt have one of these" my town in the UK in europe has like 5 parking garages in the centre of it. so i guess that's not true. sure most of the garages are paid, but if you shop at the walmart-type supermarket above one of the parking garages, you get the parking free!
@@Energya01 well maybe mainland europe and some towns in the UK dont have them, likely especially germany and NL as they have extensive public transport infrastructure, but those sorts of parking garages aren't uncommon in other countries, maybe on that scale probably uncommon, but the design is all the same. i do like what carmel has done with these ideas tho with the financing thing and the roundabouts, if i had to move to the states carmel would be a pretty likely and decent option, a stark contrast to the major car centricness of the USA
These videos are both very interesting and also incredibly frustrating. Also the quality on all the graphic overlays and editing is top notch. One note is that I didn't know this was a continuation from the series of talking to the mayor in Carmel about their infrastructure journey and I would have clicked even faster if I had understood that (still woulda clicked anyway though, but maybe others wouldn't?)
The city is looking long term. Instead of, let's say a million a year from a single business, they get 4 businesses and homes where they get 1/2 of that for 30 years (price of the extra parking costs). Then the subsidy goes away, and make 4 million a year. That is the one thing people who don't understand how subsidies are supposed to work realize. Eventually the city is expecting to make a lot more than what was subsidized.
Speaking from experience, you probably don't want your apartment to be right next to a parking garage. Unless the garage taxes especially good care to dampen sounds.
All this could be avoided if the U.S. instituted land value tax. Or atleast implement them in the downtown areas. It blows my mind how people/business can own an acre of undeveloped land or parking lots in a downtown and pay pennys in taxes, while ruining the downtown for everyone else.
lvt is better than traditional property tax but it still has a problem: taxing land is a disincentive signal. You are punishing land owners for improving the value of their land. It's better than punishing owners for improving the value of their land AND property but its still not great.
@@tann_manno, you pay more when your neighbors improve their land, but not when you improve your own. Maybe you got that, and just phrased it strangely...
We desperately need to push Georgist thinking back into the mainstream. Also, @tann_man, lvt is specifically designed not to be increased when you improve your property; only when the unbuilt value of your land, aka the physical space you monopolize from others, improves because of improvement in the society, like the establishment of new infrastructure, business, and public amenities.
Land value tax is a great idea, but businesses are just following parking minimum rules. They don't actually want to buy twice the amount of land they actually need just for cars.
Downtown parking lots are A GOLD MINE for the parking lot companies... Practically no maintenance, or operating costs... Nothing but sweet sweet cash flow...
Are you trying to tell us that there are enormous social, economic and even environmental benefits to
- long term planning?
- designing attractive street scapes?
- mixed use developments?
- mixed density zoning?
It's almost as if Indiana has un-forgotten 10.000 years of human urban history.
Cynicism aside, I really love what they are doing! Thanks for showing it to the world.
Or you could just tax the things you don't want (parking) rather than what you do want.
@@petergerdes1094
NYC does something very similar by taxing both property and land. Parking lots are hit with very heavy land taxes since Manhattan is very valuable, and empty lots are at a premium. The traditional flat parking won't break even on just the property tax even if they charge $100 for a day, so parking lots in the city are either garages integrated into a building, or use car lifts and valets as to fit 6 cars per parking space.
One also has to never forget that urban sprawl was the intended result, as a way to circumvent nuclear bombing of city centers
Its quite selfgratifying to think it was all done for no reason
@@Demopans5990 yes it sound to good to be True ; )~ thihi
it looks like a Nice City : )
Don't forget walk ability!
The Carmel people really need to get in charge of National urban planning. Seems like they know how to fix a lot of stupid stuff in the suburbs.
The magic is that their approach isn't antagonistic to drivers and cars. It's a way to "have your cake and eat it too" as a first step toward urbanizing desirable parts of the suburbs.
the suburbs of Vancouver and Toronto is also a good model. We use high frequency buses (15 minute local buses, 5 minute BRTs) as the backbone of the system, and we also opportunistically redevelope suburban areas that are getting rapid transit. I think buses are really underappreciated online
@@RoadGuyRob Exactly. You can show a better alternative without being antagonistic. Just get the ball rolling in the right direction.
@@1224chrisngThe problem with buses in the US is there is a highly negative stigma that they are unsafe, dirty, slow, filled with undesirables, etc. But they also create the need for regular bus shelters, special lanes, what have you that most communities here don't want.
I saw a report that a city saved money by NOT charging for bussing. All hop-on, hop-off.
Anyways, this video should be sent to every mayor, city council in the USA.
They know this. They need the money and political will
All of them.
.
....
Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today
Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven
There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today
Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell
Come to Jesus Christ today
Jesus Christ is only way to heaven
Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void
Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today
Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today
Romans 6.23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jesus
Email your city council district office about things like this then! I just did earlier today!
This is great until you learn that they are against having a transit station in their community. So they aren't completely in-line with their politics of "government shouldn't tell you how to live". You don't really have the option to live a car-free life. So you have to live with a car in that town because you can't really anywhere else.
As a person from Europe, more specifically Denmark, this is amazing!
I don't think it looks European, it has that perfect Americana feel that gives it personality.
This is a place I would love to visit! 😍😍
You better start saving then. Carmel is one of the most expensive cities in America and the most expensive city in Indiana and they still have the most debt in the state
Hørt-hørt!
@@FATMAC2 "After an independent review, Reedy Financial Group concluded the City of Carmel’s debt load is reasonable and plans to pay it down are sound.
Gary Smith, a CPA with the firm, presented the final report to the Carmel City Council during a special meeting held Sept. 26 at City Hall.
“There are not really any key findings or things to be concerned about,” Smith said."
@@FATMAC2Expensive means high demand. And debt is fine if it is an investment which will pay off.
So, you're basically just saying that it is a place that businesses and people want to be in, and that they actually invest in the future of the place. Ok
@@FATMAC2 Carmel is by no means cheap, but it is also far from being "one of the most expensive cities in America". The cost of a house in Carmel would look downright cheap to anyone living on the west coast.
Carmel is definitely a great example for smaller towns, and probably the greatest example of how parking is probably the biggest waste of spaces in downtown areas. However, given how much more expensive underground parking is than surface parking its probably cheaper to eliminate some (but not all) and operate a small bus route.
A town near me did something similar, and the effects have been mixed. While the bus is definitely getting use, there's more car traffic than ever before. The street was changed from one-way with diagonal parking to two-way with parallel parking (half as many spaces). A few businesses relocated from the main strip or closed entirely because of a lack of parking, but nearly all have been replaced with new businesses. They put a raised bike path between the sidewalk and parking, and there's definitely more people biking, scooting & skateboarding. There are unfortunately many (particularly older) residents who refuse to go downtown because of the lack of parking, and because they're afraid of damaging their cars on the curb extensions. Overall I would say that the aesthetics of the area have improved significantly, but the tangible impacts have been minimal.
Carmel does not care about cost. They just barrow the money from the state and build build build! Plus, they have worked really hard to keep away the types of people you might find on a bus.
@@FATMAC2at least they’re doing something good here and making roads safer and making the most of their urban areas.
@@JakobHill Generally speaking street parking does not make a difference in the success of most businesses, and we know this for two reasons. The first is that only 1 or 2 cars fits on the street parking in front of a business, which usually isn't enough through traffic to sustain the business. What this means is typically their customer base (if they were driving) were parking at private lots or side streets further away, so the one spot probably never accounted for a large amount of customer foot traffic. The second is that most small businesses don't build parking unless they're made to. Obviously it's different if you're a road side dinner off a highway vs a bar in a city, but generally speaking businesses build parking only if its worth it unless they're made to build parking by zoning laws.
@@XandateOfHeaven Yes definitely, frequent buses are the foundation of good suburban transit systems
Here in Australia its common for big store to build the store above the parking. So you get sheltered parking and the store is protected in flood prone areas because its much higher than others built at ground level.
That is common in the urban core of a big, or bigger city. It is very common to see a super market built above the parking lot, it just isn't as common in the suburbs.
@@austinlawler3739 Correction: That's common on the East and West Coasts of the USA. You're not going to see such in Nashville Tennessee or even Charlotte NC or Atlanta GA ......even though the Metro area contains millions of people & have a lot of flood hazards.
Here in New Zealand too. though you commonly get a store with heaps of parking underneath AND a big surface parking lot, and then people fight for the last space outside without even considering going down under (forgive the pun).
It's hilarious to see every space full outside and 3/4 of the underground parking empty.
Yes. Bunnings the big box hardware store's standard design for all new stores is for all parking to be under the store. (Also customers prefer under cover parking because of the heat)
Las Vegas, NV does this for many of the casinos on the Strip. Fun fact they also rebuilt the entire sewage/water reclamation system after the Strip was flooded in the 70s. Area gets ALOT of monsoon-style flash rains/floods.
Rob looks so weird without the high-vis vest.
I shot some of the footage in September 2023 when I was there, and it was pre-Class II vest. So I had to film to match. Only one video left with the old vest before it's more-or-less retired.
Your series about Carmel honestly made me very optimistic about the future of American city planning.
Did he happen to mention how much debt this has created?
He did, actually. See the TIF section
@@FATMAC2On the long haul, this will make more money as old people will have a better life in a densified comunity where they can walk and be healthier. If done properly, more people will want this kind of life. And you are forgetting the infrastructurw costs for spread housing: roads, pipes, electricity etc. Who pays for that? In a way, spread communities are subsidized.
@@FATMAC2 Short-term debt to reach long-term solvency. The reason most cities in this country are going bankrupt is because they've never made long-term investments like this. They take the quick payouts that just balloon their maintenance budget after a few decades. Most cities operate like pyramid schemes. Carmel is operating like an investor.
@@FATMAC2 literally nothing can happen without debt
I think Carmel is a great example of what small communities can do to fix up their towns and make them liveable again in America. Somewhere like NYC has the money, the influence and the infrastructure to do a war on cars and so they should. But a small town in Indiana doesnt. It is much more viable to attempt to densify and reduce reliance on cars for local trips, instead of trying to remove cars all together because they couldnt do that all by themselves.
Exactly. This approach is not for Boston, NYC, etc. But it's great for suburbs who want to develop a dense downtown or Transit-Oriented Development village around their city's commuter rail station.
It's giving people options. Most will still live in single-family houses. But now there's a big commercial tax base to help. And a cool walkable place for those who want to buy or rent in an area that's different from the rest of the suburbs. It's really a win-win that gives maximum choice/freedom to everyone.
@@RoadGuyRob I don't see how this approach "isn't for NYC"?
The congestion tax doesn't do anything to solve the last-mile-adjacent transit problems cars do. Sure, the subway is great - but... how does someone from outside the city _get_ to the trains? That's an unsolved problem.
@@theboldfuture2341 The airport, regional rail, or a long distance bus?
@@theboldfuture2341 nearly all of the transit in the NYC area interfaces with the subway. My dad used to take a bus from a commuter station in nj into the port authority bus terminal and then take the subway or walk to his office depending on where in the city his current job was. A friend of mine takes the PATH train every day and then walks like 2 blocks to his job.
That’s great Carmel!
Now where is that Transit we were promised?
Plot twist: When everything is built densely with mixed use areas and parking garages, the people living there will start walking or biking instead of driving and eventually forget that they have a car waiting in the garage, feeling abandoned. 😢
I don't see why this is a bad thing?
Best of both worlds.
well, that's extra space for the mancave, ain't it?
Add some trains and people will sell their cars
@@MustraOrdo well, the car will be sad... until the owner realises they're wasting a lot of money on parking they don't need to and gets rid of it (assuming the parking costs money).
your TIF graph should also take into account infrastructure maintenance costs, which are much higher in the long run for less dense development
Totally, just having three or four times less length of roads does pose a considerable saving in everything infrastructure related.
This is Road Guy Rob's best video yet! Carmel gets it! This TIF and new urbanism model takes advantage of the two different financial time lines of a private versus public entities. I like to walk but need my car so this gets it. The challenge here is convincing voters that single family zoning carriers a huge long term cost that we are barely catching. I live on two acres and have to drive everywhere. My wife believes that two acres is worthwhile but all it does it create yard work for me. A smart design like those in this video convinces me we must rethink.
Well, if you put all of your land except your house into a yard, then yes, two acres is definitely too much for you.
Yes, the problem many activists have is they focus too much on the altruistic aspects of whatever they are advocating for, and never provide a solid business plan for achieving what they want to achieve. If you want cities and towns to become more dense, the best way to do this is not to argue about the pros and cons of one style of building over another. The best way to do this is to present a method for increasing taxes while decreasing tax burden. Simply money talks louder than anything else, and if you can make an economic argument you are going to be much more likely to convince someone than an altruistic argument.
I don't believe the math of this new urbanism. The project in this video has very little housing compared to office. I think that is why it pencils out for the city to forego the incremental tax for 30 years - the office does not demand schools and demands very little police and fire protection, unlike housing. The problem of where the vast majority of those office workers will be commuting in from and how their needs will be funded is pushed aside.
I also don't believe that public works is bankrupting suburbia. It's maybe 10% of a typical budget. The biggest costs are payrolls - teachers followed by police and fire. Those are more proportional to the population than the land area.
Businesses would build much, much smaller parking lots if they weren't mandated to build them to city code. Another crazy thing - Bars are frequently required to provide a minimum amount of parking. Would make a lot more sense to make sure bars are located near public transit so people have a convenient alternative to driving home.
If you want to consider what is best for society, it would be to have no bars. Alcohol is bad for health, including mental health and causes a lot of societal problems. If we are going to put up with having bars, maybe move them out of the city where parking isn't an issue.
@@username7763 The 'third space' bars provide is a net benefit to society. You're sure as shit not going to meet people online.
@@username7763 So you want people to drive further to the bars? Are you an idiot?
@@username7763 Oh great googly moogly, are we really going back to fucking *prohibition* in 2024?!
@@username7763
Yeah, making people take cars home is a great idea right????
Sounds like your city council and city planner have to be REALLY hands on for this to work. To the point they’re actually actively curating the specific look of the city block by block. Carmel obviously did it well, but are there examples out there of when this fails?
I would love to see an example of TIF implemented badly. It would make a cautionary tale of what mistakes a city needs to avoid. I'm sure there are examples, but I don't know one off hand.
@@RoadGuyRob Orland Park, Illinios just wrote off $47 million from a TIF that never developed 20 years after implementation
So what you're saying is that they actually have to do their jobs?
A little too much planning, even down to the color of the bricks they used!!
This could actually be a really good option for underfunded/inexperienced small-medium cities that are trying to get transit. Operating transit gets cheaper and easier with higher densities, so if this can ramp up the density, it can make running transit cheaper and easier in the future.
If transit runs to places with a lot of people (walking distance), then more people are willing to use transit (walking distance). It's a good cycle.
Indianapolis does not have a regional light-rail system. So, this can also work without transit.
But they should! @@RoadGuyRob
I think that's the point.
Carmel is the opposite of underfunded though. The solution for true broke cities is micromobility. Bike lanes and scooters are far cheaper than garages. Bikes can handle big suburban distances as is. Over time, demand for infill will increase.
light rail is illegal in Indiana, thanks to our backwards state government.
seems like they’re doing everything they can to put a pretty face on car dependence
everytime i hear anything about carmel, is always about how a good city to live in it is
Its all marketing. They have taken on so much debt that if they don't get people to move there they are going to go bankrupt
@@FATMAC2 Seems an independent review of the cities debt says otherwise. In general, densifying always increases cities revenue over their infrastructure cost, the financially irresponsible thing would be to NOT do what they did (like most suburbs). This part of the city will likely end up being the economic power house that allows the rest of this suburban city to thrive.
@@FATMAC2you seem to be overly stuck on an issue that isn’t an issue.
I've been there and almost everybody has a brand new car, nice houses, private schools, etc.
I'll take TEN Garbage Boxes, please! 😁
[delivers Holiday Inn ashtrays] Thank you!
I love love LOVE this, its not saying, "cars are the problem, lets get rid of them", its actually creating a genuine solution that works while still allowing the convenience of cars.
and isn't it nice that when Americans are give an alternative choice of getting around, many of them use their freedom to CHOOSE to walk and bike :)
@@seantroy3172And considering there are people who can’t walk or bike to the store, it’s nice to not put them on house arrest w/o the freedom afforded by their car.
@@bethmichaels8410sure, and then this person in your example probably is going to have some mobility assist device (walker, scooter, wheelchair) and gets to enjoy the much more accessible and pedestrian friendly area created here. Though I think the framing that someone in the USA will become trapped because small downtown areas are more pedestrianized is inaccurate. The mayor talks about several adjacent lots that very car centric. But its nice that Multiple modes of transportation are accommodated here. Who knows, maybe that person who can’t drive will want to move to one of those townhouses or apartments because they realize they don’t need to rely on their car for everything.
Only a car-brained idiot would think people are trying to get rid of cars. Go to any other country with better walkability, bike-friendly cities with good public transit and you will still see cars. In fact, some of these countries produce better cars than we do ironically. 😅
The people who think they’re trying to get rid of cars are the people who like to drive fast and often times recklessly and whine when city planners try to slow them down or do something in an attempt to reduce traffic congestion
@@bethmichaels8410Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today
Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven
There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today
Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell
Come to Jesus Christ today
Jesus Christ is only way to heaven
Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void
Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today
Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today
Romans 6.23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jesus
Ban parking minimums
At minimum, set *reasonable* parking minimums. Other than Costco here in California, I've never seen a suburban big-box parking lot get beyond 50% occupied. The minimum requirements are WAY too much. And customers and businesses are stuck eating the cost.
@@RoadGuyRob I feel like one way to make parking minimums more reasonable is for them to count any parking within walking distance of a new development towards reducing the minimum, I cannot count the number of places I've seen where they install hundreds of parking spaces for a new development despite there being a parking lot right next door that's almost always empty.
@@RoadGuyRobHere in suburban Southeast Michigan, big box parking is normally loaded beyond 50%. More like 75% in my experience.
Ban minimums, let businesses decide what style of parking works best for them. There's a reason parking lots in the heart of Manhattan use car lifts. You can't break even on the property tax with just flat parking.
@@RoadGuyRob The ITE parking guide would need a serious revamping, as would reshaping city officials views on what these recommendations are, rather than taking it as gospel.
I have lived in singapore for about 8 months over the last 4 years.
I LOVE their style, tall buildings right by each other, easy to walk, AND you get tons of parking, most of the time underground.
So if you MUST drive, you can, and for those that walk or use transit, you can.
Singapore literally has a cap on the number of cars it allows in the country. It costs tens of thousands just to get one of the limited permits. Only the ultra wealthy own cars.
Try buying a car in Singapore.😂
This is the right way to do it in many places with lots of parking and suburbia.
Hey Phoenix, Take note!
Ugh, Phx is a mess with all these freeways.
What your looking for is coding laws
@@Canleaf08 how? Phoenix would be completely gridlocked without the 101 and 202
Unlike a lot of other channels, I appreciate you being balanced saying cars and drivers aren't nessessarily the enemy, but badly planned infasturcture is. When thoughtfully planned, car infastructive can still fit into a city that benefits everyone, motorists, commuters and pedestrians included.
Imagine that, a Libertarian who legitimately wants people to have more choices, not just his choices.
You act like that’s exclusive to libertarians.
@@_DB.COOPER Not sure how you got that from what I said, given that I said nothing at all about non-Libertarians (capital L emphasized for a reason).
@@oasntet imagine that.
because we've just been flooded by so many far right socialists calling themselves libertarians, who don't actually support freedom. they only support THEIR freedom, and when others make their own free choices that do not benefit them, they lash out and run to daddy government to ban it or pass more regulations.
@@_DB.COOPER liberals, the far left, and far right do not believe in universal freedom though. I can give so many examples of each being in favor of policies that reduce freedom.
liberals want to censor speech of their opponents, while indoctrinating children with wokeness, the far left wants to abolish capitalism and have the state take over everything, and the far right wants to legislate their own morality and religion, while hypocritically not following ANY of their own morals and religious laws they want to impose on others.
Thanks! Your videos are very educational and I learn a lot from them. Keep going, Rob!
This is an interesting urbanism use case, most of the urbanism videos are just here to show you that cars are evil that destroy it all and you should ban it and only talk about trains and bike trails! - but maybe there is a cool middle of way of doing it that will allow you to enjoy the freedom of a car but live in a nice place.
I think what's also interesting about this video is that he's saying this from a car/road guy's perspective as well.
I like these way more than those kind of urbanist-ey type videos if you know what I mean. Watching them kinda make me feel guilty to own a car. But this video shows something more like a common ground. We have a choice to choose our transport modes, and I love it!
This solves one of several problems cars bring to cities, and it is good ingenuity. I know Carmel also has a strip of uninterrupted roundabouts to help with congestion, though I doubt that's widespread enough to make a huge impact (and makes walking & cycling harder). The problems not addressed are safety, noise pollution, and air pollution. But hey, at least you're hiding the cars a little better :/
Thanks!
Thank you very much, Russ!
I live in Indy and thought, “the title of this applies WAY too much to Indy.”
Lo and behold, the first 30 seconds confirmed my suspicions…
13:43 - While in Indiana, another place to visit would be to see the architecture of Columbus, Indiana.
This is amazing. Just today after a job interview, I decided to walk to a nearby restaurant instead of driving there. The majority of my walking was through empty parking lots since it was during the middle of the day in a restaurant district while people are at work. In America, we may not be able to entirely eliminate parking minimums, however, more densely packed parking such as what is shown in this video is a great compromise.
This is amazing. Carmel council and engineers really got a good idea. They should spread this around.
Edmonton could make something like this happen
11:25 You see the narrowest street ever, I see a regular-sized street using European design language. It might have problems for wider American cars, but otherwise, yeah, all our regular one-way European streets are roughly that width.
I’m pretty sure most cars would be fine. I’ve been on that very street and a regular sized UPS delivery truck could fit and do a delivery
Some American fire departments complain about narrow streets but they can do like Europe and buy smaller fire trucks.
@@marcadiadd5681 Smaller fire trucks carry less stuff. When it comes to saving lives, you can never have too much equipment or too much capacity. American fire trucks are the best.
@@bwofficial1776 there’s a great not just bikes video call “how American fire departments are getting people killed” you should check out might change your mind on that
@ European trucks carry the same stuff with less wasted space.
8:19 This is a major logic fail because Walmart stores only last 30 years before they're abandoned.
Socialists can’t predict or really imagine a business failing because in their mythology an entrepreneur is some kind of invulnerable devil that they have to fight until the end of time.
I mean, we *could* get rid of them.
Also, "Carmel's secret Sauce..." We see what you did there! 🤣
Step 2. Can't get to the top of the staircase in just one leap. (Certainly not so in Indiana!)
*With all that parking, living in Carmel sounds Sweet.* 😀
I get so tired of people arguing about more bike lanes less parking lots. But i haven't taken public transport in about 6 years and i don't miss it. If i was given the choice of having to drive 1 hour in traffic or take a 30 minute bus ride, i would ALWAYS take the car. People can make as many arguments as they want for this but it doesn't change the fact that cars make you feel secure and are guaranteed to run on your schedule.
It's always people who have never been forced to use it. It's an intellectual exercise for them, they're never speaking from personal experience. Go take the metro in Miami and then tell me how aMaZiNg public transit is
@elpusegato I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes this, there's no way these people are waiting for nyc buses for it to drive past the stop and getting packed into those densely filled trains. Smallest weather inconveniences causing ridiculous late scheduling for buses. I remember I was 15, I waited around 40 minutes for the only bus that could take me home, walking would've taken nearly 2 hours
And i live in NYC near alot of train stations, and buses, but that doesn't mean it helps when you need to get to a specific place
This is really a great video.
But in indiana you have to deal with snow removal.
One of the best ways that you can do this is
Add steam lines through all the open surfaces.
Steam produces heat that heats the surface 🔥 heat that melts the snow.
There is no need for costly snowremoval every year
I always thought in cities, why not build over parking lots, bottom story parking, and over that, businesses. But this is a interesting blend between Euro walkable cities and US driving cities. I think this works great because public transportation will never become huge in the US, it's too unreliable, ridged, dirty, no privacy, and it's inconvenient. (Coming from a former bus driver the idea of using public transportation every day is a nightmare)
I like how Carmel's city character is still American, and how you can still drive places if you want. It's something more cities and towns around the country should copy. Great video Rob!
Covered parking is also very desirable in snowy and haily cities too
Love the subtle idiocracy reference! Keep up the great work!
It's nice finally to see a city that does something instead of talking about it. The government can't solve all of the problems, but they're solving the ones that they can solve.
Return ZONING to MIXED use such as Japan, Europe to allow residential above commercial (grocery stores, offices, etc) to increase urban density and UTILITY to the 15 minute WALKABLE city and the COVER any space with solar panels to protect cars from scorching heat, snow, rain AND provide electricity which will pay for itself quickly 🏆
Zoning had a lot to do with that. In most (American) places you CAN'T put homes above businesses anymore, so most people have to live an unreasonable distance away from basics like food stores. It's seriously stupid city planning!
It's big government policies. Those are big government policies that socialists love, while they complain about it. Isn't it ironic how government getting into our business actually ruins things more for everyone?
I have never heard a socialist say "boy I really wish the govt would stop me from living above a bank or a grocery store". What specifically do you think socialists would like about this policy?
@@spacecaptain9188 most socialists are unable to see the big picture, so they would never even be able to correlate the choice of a policy to an unintended outcome. They give their agency over to a government program and then have no idea how it runs or even why decisions are made. They just live with the results. That's what he means by big government policies. A government entity without a face and all the power to push a common person to the side in the name of progress. What that individual socialist likes at some point becomes irrelevant to the government once it's large enough to squash your voice. Ask a Yugoslavian about how they liked the car that they paid for back in the 80's because that was their only choice. How little people understand the world.
Man, I really have to give it to you. That is top notch Video production right there.
Im not interested in Roads nor do I live in the US for that matter. But your engaging story telling really hooks me in. Its rare to see Videos about any topic with this quality. Keep up your awesome work, love it
Ought to convert some property rax to impermeable surface tax. Add a real cost to people just slapping down cement without thought. Force developers and landowners to be more thoughtful with what they put down. Also, potentially mitigate some flooding.
Maybe, but you'd also need parks and recreational areas that can become a local flood water/ excess run-off storage area, so having some level of full concrete area would be good
You just need to repeal parking minimums and they'll stop building so much parking. Businesses much rather keep the money.
Permeable surfaces then. There's a road near me that's built in a floodplain that uses bricks instead of pavement so the water can filter through.
Just create a grid with concrete blocks with a hole in the middle.
More taxes is never something that works. Less government is what works. Let people organically develop their cities like has always been done in the past.
The biggest problem with TIF is that no investor will accept a short-term cut in favor of long-term returns. They want the profits immediately. Look at Dodge v. Ford from 1919.
3:50 this is a guy who gets it! not everyone wants a large house in the suburbs, and allowing that choice to people certainly does offer more revenue opportunities
Wow, major props to Carmel! Their planning department is doing incredible things with the space. My jaw literally dropped at the last part when talking about how much stuff they built on the tiny plot of land. More of these in more cities please!!
Wow -- an approach to making places more walkable/bikeable, and attractive in the bargain, that isn't preachy. Some of the urbanist TH-camrs could learn a lot, one guy in particular. Anyway, well done Carmel & well done Rob.
Agreed, there is no need for it to be a cars vs transit. You can have both. You just have to think outside the box a little.
I genuinely love watching road guy rob. It reminds me of videos I'd watch during middle school but they're 100x better. Really well made stuff!
You hit all the pros, but left out the cons.
The whole redesign is over budget and behind schedule.
They cut hundreds of apartments units out of their plan.
The units being built do not match the demands of the demographics.
Housing costs increased 30% in 2024 alone.
Downtown business growth stagnated in 2024, largely due to traffic congestion.
Pretty optimistic thinking those cheap frame condos will be around many decades later.
The more videos you make about Carmel, the more I want to move there
They need your tax money to pay for all the stuff they are building. Move quick before they go bankrupt
It is a really beautiful city, if you can pay the rent. Avg rent for a studio is $1,454 for context.
@FATMAC2 so you're telling me my taxes are contributing to community centers, more beautiful streets, making the city accessible by both car and foot, and more? sign me up.
of course carmel has a bunch of debt. it also has a model of financial growth that has been proven by cities across the planet and across literal millenia to be successful in the long term. the romans built aqueducts. the modern united states was enabled by the railroad. these are examples of investing in public goods.
this isn't some new radical idea that will destroy cities. this is, definitionally, what a civilization is. citizens come together to invest in a shared community.
what do you think taxes are for...?????????
Would love to see small towns do this too. Lots of towns here in eastern MA have main streets full of strip malls, with acres of parking lots lining the road instead of sidewalks, benches, and trees. They aren’t quite stroads, but they aren’t walkable either.
The cause of massive US parking lots is of course a lot more complicated than in your intro. The current ones are not that big because the shops want it but because the laws say they must be so. And the laws are all based around minimums not maximums. And if I were to guess, the original cause has to do with people failing to find parking being much more vocal than people finding too many parking spots and having to drive between locations as a result, but the reality is politics and government are complicated and it is just as possible that larger and larger parking lots are just a natural outcome of putting laws in place governing the minimum size of parking lots. The pencil pushers will always err on the side of caution and will keep increasing sizes. Again, they only get blamed when there is a large event and someone can't find parking whereas the downsides of large parking lots never get blamed on the policy makers that came up with them.
Ignoring the ideological reasons why I am against government mandated parking lot minimums. The issue here is that these laws don't go far enough. They just mandate the number of park spots, so obviously businesses are going to go with the cheapest option possible. These laws, if we are going to have them, should also limit how parking lots can be built so that they are forced to be built either, underground, behind the building, or as a parking garage.
@@evancombs5159 The government where this video is talking about, has done just that. But I think the next step should be to cut the parking spaces in half and instead provide public transport and cycling/walking infrastructure. The reality is that other parts of the world that have a lot less parking are much more pleasant places to live and every country should be looking at getting closer to that design.
It is clear that even in the location being discussed, there is far too much parking and the reason why is because everyone is too scared of being in trouble that one day that someone cant find a parking spot.
@@TimothyWhiteheadzm The reality is other parts of the world are also a lot less pleasant places to live. So i've canceled your point entirely.
@@TimothyWhiteheadzm as a resident of the location in question, I disagree.
@@evancombs5159 disagree about what and why?
This is exactly what I have wanted to see in developments in DFW. We can't just have infinite parking lots surrounding strip malls, we need to densify and I know no one wants to have a big blocky parking structure looming next to their store so instead we wrap the garage in apartments/housing/shopping centers/offices. You get enough parking to include them with the rental units, have enough for retail uses and have some left over to provide off-street parking for other nearby uses.
Great video! So much prime land is locked behind car parking. In my city, we had small towns build around the railway lines, but as suburban sprawl happened and these towns were absorbed as suburbs in the big city, much of the land around the stations have been turned into park and ride car parks. Thankfully, the government is starting to convert more of these car parks into residential/ commercial developments.
Back in 2011, we visited Stockholm Sweden and stayed in a friend’s new apartment in Nacka, suburb of Stockholm. Their complex had two four story buildings that were mirror images of each other with large balconies that overlooked the space between the buildings, a lovely park and playground. Their complex parking was under the greenspace and was designed with direct access to the two buildings. The design fostered a real community sense, kept cars snow-free in the winter, provided security and gave children a safe place to play. In short, everything was well thought-out.
Road Guy Rob should look at Santana Row in San Jose California.
the Santana Row developers took a low-density shopping mall (Town & Country Village), that had a large parking lot, and redeveloped it into a downtown like outdoor mall with the parking garages behind the stores.
This kind of thing is so common over here in Europe, it took me a while to even comprehend what you were so amazed by when you started swooning over the differently coloured bricks to delineate lanes and parking spaces.
I bet the reason the big box stores and offices with big parking lots already there not wanting to give up their land is building anything on the periphery that's a few stories tall means you can't see the building at all or as well anymore. And for a big box retail store, they probably feel having a clear line of sight to the main road means free advertising.
This only works in really rich cities. My city removed the brick roads downtown because the maintenance cost was 10x the maintenance cost of asphalt roads. You don't have to paint lines if you have a brick paved road with colored bricks for the lines but that road is going to cost way more in maintenance than repairing the road lines every 10 years.
What maintenance? A well-laid brick road will last at least 50 years before requiring any. Unlike asphalt, which deteriorates and breaks apart, stones just stay as they are. And if their bedding is implemented properly and is made to match the loads, they won't shift either.
8:40 TIF is a nice concept for building a parking garage. What pays for repairs to the parking garage after the structure has deteriorated for 30 years? At some point it will have to be closed for renovations. How will that impact the businesses that depend on it? Or are we taking the "that's a problem for future generations" approach?
With normal maintenance (clearing the drains, fixing leaks, cleaning etc.) a concrete parking structure can last 100+ years. Of course if you don't do anything for 30 years you shouldn't be surprised that suddenly all the rebar's gone rusted and needs very expensive concrete repairs or even demolition. Luckily it seems the city keeps a close eye on things with these projects and surely in the contracts it's specified that the building owner must do reasonable maintenance of the structure.
The developer or building owner is going to be making a lot more money by leasing out all that office space and apartments; than if they were leasing out only a single store. So that will pay for maintenance.
I'd imagine when it does require renovating that closing it won't be a massive issue as the end goal for this type of development and planning would be to have every building in walkable distance of eachother and to have all if not most buildings with businesses in them have parking incorporated. So if a single store needed repairs for a month or so than it'd be rather simple for them to have an agreement with their neighbours to use their parking.
The person who will pay for repairs to the parking floors is the same who also pays for the same repairs to the office and apartment floors, as well as the roof and the facade of the building.
Carmel is an excellent example of how a standard US suburb can transform itself into a town with character! The denser redevelopment gives the area a sense of place, instead of the typical nowhere land with a sense of no-place.
And with some of the streets following Dutch design in their construction, it's abundantly clear that somebody there has been watching Not Just Bikes and taking notes!
With that density, public transit starts to become a reality as well. People will go "eh, I'm parked, I'll just take the bus, the tram once it comes, etc."
You overestimate the desire of people to be crammed into tiny boxes with other humans.
public transit does not work anywhere except many New York City, and even then, you can see how much of a disaster it is already.
The key here is that if you have municipal parking, any business can have their customers park there and essentially share parking capacity collectively, but if you have private lot parking, EACH business (or plaza) must duplicate a full allotment of parking spaces.
You wind up with so many parking spaces that a county could have 8 or more spaces for every registered vehicle. With so many municipal parking options that allow most business to have little or no parking themselves, Carmel might have a ratio of as little as 3 to 1.
I think the US could do with more shared parking lots. Often you have businesses next to each other with peak periods at different times. Grocery stores will have a peak period earlier than restaurants, for example, and hardware stores are more likely to have customers during the workday than after it. So the same parking lot could cater for multiple businesses at different times.
I agree with you but to the average American anything that has the word “share” in it sounds like communist propaganda coming to steal their children
That's what minimalls do.
I love your videos. They’re so much more grounded in reality than other videos on public infrastructure and so positive as well!
Stanford University charges employees to park in their empty lots and garages. So people stay home, cheat or park in hospital patient parking for free.
In my town it seems like TIF districts are being used to exclude new developments from contributing tax to road maintenance outside of their districts, while people in the rest of the town still have their tax contribute to road maintenance inside those TIF districts. Has anyone else heard of this? Nice that they are beneficial in Carmel but idk how I feel about them in smaller towns.
So basically a version of equity financing. But I personally prefer the Texas Donut just because its cheaper and compatible with more geographies.
Nice to see an alternative to car less infill. The problem with pushing the parking utilization rate is you start needing sophisticated management to keep drivers from circling looking for a spot.
In Singapore, they have a parking system that shows the area's commercial building's parking count place on the main thoroughfare (Expressway) directly into the downtown area. Lots of buy in from the building's owner, but it kept the flow relatively smooth.
This is one of the problems I have when going to downtown Carmel. The parking is so well hidden I can't find it. They need to do a better job of making sure people know where the parking is, and which parking is free and which is not.
In Thailand, at least in the cities, the parking garage is at ground level and the supermarket is built above it: heavy cars are still on the ground, no need for heavy construction, and the cars are protected from the sun while they are parked.
9:04 what’s the product life expectancy of that building tho ?
Really long. They're building things right, the European way. They're not measuring in decades, but centuries.
Carmel saved a lot of money by putting in roundabouts, too!
I would unironically watch a full adspot for garbagebox.
I had the idea for that bit while I was sick with COVID during 2022. Finally got around to making it. Glad you liked it!
This is an exceptional example of how local governments can encourage long term planning and development over short term profits.
Could the TIF plan lead to big hikes in rent or condo maintenance fees once the parking is paid off (30 years)? Or are there requirements from the government to ensure the finances aren't manipulated to let developers have low rents and fees at day 1? I'd be concerned that with increased taxes and increased maintenance fees as the buildings age, the development might only be attractive for the first 30 years when taxes are low.
i think he meant that taxes will stay the same (plus inflation) the entire time, but i suppose the city has to take out loans to build the parking garage itself for the first 30 years, which is paid off over time by the TIF. once it's paid off, those same taxes simply become more profit
The taxes to the property owner are constant or change at a steady rate. Only the allocation changes after 30 years.
He worked for 30 years!
My interpretation of this is that taxes are higher from the beginning which pays off the construction loan and then continues to be high after the construction loan is paid off forever. It's like a forever mortgage.
@@Tb0n3 No, that's not really what the video was saying.
The basis for the 'higher taxes' isn't a higher tax rate, its higher land value. The higher land value stems from the fact that buildings generate more revenue per acre than a patch of asphalt with some lines painted on it does.
Think of it like this: a normal Walmart might have 2x the area of the store itself allocated to parking. Stick the parking under the Walmart. In the space saved, you put in a Best Buy, a Home Depot, a bank, a set of doctor/dentist/lawyer offices, and a restaurant. In having all those businesses sitting in the same plot of land that would have just been a parking-lot you have caused the land value to skyrocket. But its fine because all those other businesses combined (including the original Walmart) are generating vastly more total revenue.
The higher land value, taxed at the same rate, generates more money. You take the difference between this high value and what the value per acre would be if there were a giant parking lot and use that to pay for the hidden parking garage.
Thank you Rob, I always enjoy learning something new from your videos
Hey road guy, Rob This makes me want you to do a video and golf carts in local cities. Fun fact about golf carts is that they were invented by a disabled golfer. That and I would love for you to come to Atlanta area see betlline, go too PreachTree City.
A lot of people associate golf cart communities with The villages and while it is a golf cart community, it is not a technically a city. It's a unincorporated community.
Golf carts are just less efficient forms of electric bikes tbh. They're much bigger, slower, and much more expensive. I see new ones going for upwards of 8k
@@andrewlalis And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can ride a bike. A golf cart can carry four people or more, plus it has some load carrying capacity. They don't require balance and they have varying levels of weather protection.
The architecte is just stunning as well!! Glad that they know how important that is.
What I worry about TIF usage though is funneling tax dollars away from other necessities such as fire dept, police, schools, etc. to pay off a loan, essentially
He mentioned this downside in passing, but yes, this is a concern with TIF. You have to consider the losses before the break even point to make sure the TIF is a wise investment. TIFs aren't free money.
I wondered that, too. Indiana law appears to be fairly strict. TIF has to make the project possible. If the project is possible without the TIF, it cannot qualify for TIF. And the tax revenue cannot go down compared to what was on the site beforehand. In the city's examples on their web site, few sites were $0/year. Most were re-developed and the existing tax rate continues. The difference is, after 25 years the new rate skyrockets. So right now Carmel isn't seeing the income, but from 2036 onward they will see enormous revenue.
If I understand it correctly, in theory you won't lose any current tax revenue, you are only delaying an increase in tax revenue that likely wouldn't exist if the redevelopment doesn't happen anyways. For a city the risk for any single project having negative tax consequences is essentially 0. The risk only comes into play when your city over leverages itself by being too aggressive, and taking on too many TIF projects.
@@evancombs5159 That's kind of the ideal world, and it sounds like Carmel actually is managing to get results close to that ideal. However, you do have to consider that "negative area" on the graph RGR drew - the costs of a single large TIF can become onerous. After all, you're supporting the increasing costs of the district on the existing tax revenue of the city. Another consideration is cannibalization - a city's existing businesses moving to the hot new TIF district. If you just get your city's businesses to move to take advantage of the nice new infrastructure, you lose their tax revenue but not their costs.
The city doesn't have to reduce taxes to zero. Even if they'd just reduce it to half, they'd still make more money than they had otherwise, as there will be 3 times the businesses on the same land.
Every downtown city on.
my state has covered the parking lots with buildings and they have one parking garage in the Birmingham Alabama
Engineers pay millions of dollars to cover the parking lot with building and also parking garage
The fact that different colour/direction tiles in the street tiling are considered luxury is just wild to me, bc that's standard nearly everywhere here in the Netherlands
When I lived in a downtown apartment with a parking deck I wanted the apartment doors to open directly to the parking deck. Like an old roadside motel where you park in front of the door. Also use the top floor of the parking deck as an outdoor space renters could use. Fake grass with potted plants. Outdoor couches to chill and look at the skyline.
Sounds dangerous for any woman that lives alone
@@crazyboydakota This is the USA, we have the right to protect ourselves. A life that's not dangerous is boring.
Carmel is a great example of what people mean by "walkable cities" They don't want to get rid of cars, they just want it to be more accessible for walking/biking and having things closer together.
3 am road guy rob video no way
File's done. Time to post!
(Actually, I had it done a couple of days ago for the contributors on Patreon. But I made a few last-minute changes based on the feedback over there).
Longer videos please!
Another banger! Thanks Rob!
12:00 "europe doesnt have one of these" my town in the UK in europe has like 5 parking garages in the centre of it. so i guess that's not true. sure most of the garages are paid, but if you shop at the walmart-type supermarket above one of the parking garages, you get the parking free!
Alternatively: you're right, europe doesn't have those, because we don't want them and don't need them either
@@Energya01 well maybe mainland europe and some towns in the UK dont have them, likely especially germany and NL as they have extensive public transport infrastructure, but those sorts of parking garages aren't uncommon in other countries, maybe on that scale probably uncommon, but the design is all the same. i do like what carmel has done with these ideas tho with the financing thing and the roundabouts, if i had to move to the states carmel would be a pretty likely and decent option, a stark contrast to the major car centricness of the USA
@@j2w1_lub oh certainly, it's a very nice approach what the city is doing. Was only being a bit snarky about that one comment 😅
You don't have to pay property tax if you file for a Land/Homestead patent.
This is a great way to transition a car centric suburb into a real city that doesn’t need cars.
This town makes me so jealous of basically how the rest of the country develops their zoning.
Multi-level parking garages aren't the best option but they're way better and more efficient than plain surface lots.
These videos are both very interesting and also incredibly frustrating. Also the quality on all the graphic overlays and editing is top notch. One note is that I didn't know this was a continuation from the series of talking to the mayor in Carmel about their infrastructure journey and I would have clicked even faster if I had understood that (still woulda clicked anyway though, but maybe others wouldn't?)
So the government subsidized the business
The city is looking long term. Instead of, let's say a million a year from a single business, they get 4 businesses and homes where they get 1/2 of that for 30 years (price of the extra parking costs). Then the subsidy goes away, and make 4 million a year. That is the one thing people who don't understand how subsidies are supposed to work realize. Eventually the city is expecting to make a lot more than what was subsidized.
Speaking from experience, you probably don't want your apartment to be right next to a parking garage. Unless the garage taxes especially good care to dampen sounds.
All this could be avoided if the U.S. instituted land value tax. Or atleast implement them in the downtown areas. It blows my mind how people/business can own an acre of undeveloped land or parking lots in a downtown and pay pennys in taxes, while ruining the downtown for everyone else.
lvt is better than traditional property tax but it still has a problem: taxing land is a disincentive signal. You are punishing land owners for improving the value of their land. It's better than punishing owners for improving the value of their land AND property but its still not great.
@@tann_manno, you pay more when your neighbors improve their land, but not when you improve your own.
Maybe you got that, and just phrased it strangely...
We desperately need to push Georgist thinking back into the mainstream. Also, @tann_man, lvt is specifically designed not to be increased when you improve your property; only when the unbuilt value of your land, aka the physical space you monopolize from others, improves because of improvement in the society, like the establishment of new infrastructure, business, and public amenities.
Land value tax is a great idea, but businesses are just following parking minimum rules. They don't actually want to buy twice the amount of land they actually need just for cars.
They are actually building a city, not a giant parking lot with several drive-through attached to it. Good to see in America.
Downtown parking lots are A GOLD MINE for the parking lot companies... Practically no maintenance, or operating costs... Nothing but sweet sweet cash flow...
Yeah, they charge the same or more than a parking garage would cost to park on, but none of the costs.
immagin 2 solar panels per parking spot. moar powa baby
My god that’s lovely! The mixed use buildings, walk/bike paths, Beautiful design, and logical develop. Great job Carmel