Reference: Myth #1 Tie Goes to the Runner (1:50 time mark). As noted by others, the rules were re-written by Major League Baseball in 2015. Rule 7.01 was completely overhauled. Runner being called out is now covered under MLB Rule 5.09(b)(6), which states that the runner is out when "He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner." This puts the burden on the defensive team to touch the player or to touch the base BEFORE the runner touches the base. In effect, a tie now goes to the runner. The rules applying to the batter running to 1st base are similarly written and covered under MLB Rule 5.09(a)(10). Again, a tie goes to the batter running to 1st base. P.S. This video was first published in 2018, well after the 2015 rules went into effect. The author's quoting of the obsolete rule is somewhat surprising.
Note: Myth #1 above. He refers in the comments to the rules of MLB 2017. It's last year as rule 7.01 was MLB.com rules 2014. MLB.com rules 2015 onward have this, reworded, in 5.09(b)(6). Runner ------------ changed 2014 MLB rules: 7.01 - A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. 2019 MLB rules: 5.09(b)(6) - He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. Batter ------------- same 2014 MLB rules: 6.05(j) - After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base; 2019 MLB rules: 5.09(a)(10) - After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base; The keyword in these rules is "before". Just go with 2019...2014 at this point is not relevant. Thoughtful vid. Thanks for posting.
If you think of #2 as a batting stance it makes sense. When you are in a regular batting stance and you don't swing at a pitch that is not in the strike zone, it is not a strike. When you are in the bunting stance that is just another kind of batting stance. if you make no attempt to make contact with the baseball, and the pitch is not in the strike zone, it is not a strike.
Myth #2 is just preposterous and I've never heard it before. I'd like to see more myths addressed here. One of my favorites is that a batter-runner must turn towards foul territory after passing first base safely or he can be put out. Also, I'm pretty sure that a batter isn't awarded first base when hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone. Am I right about this? If so, which rule applies? This doesn't seem to be enforced on the Major League level.
A Hit by pitch when there is a swing or its in the strike zone is a strike and a dead ball. In addition if a batter is hit by a pitch that’s a ball but makes not attempt to move out of the way it is supposed to be ruled a ball and not a free pass to first base. Never seen this called in an MLB game but I have seen a ball called instead of a kid getting first base a few times in a HS game where the kid just watched a lollipop lob 2 mph curveball right into his shoulder without even flinching.
The batter runner can turn any way when they over run 1st. The rule states the batter runner has to make an attempt to go to 2nd to be tagged out at 1st. So if the batter runner over runs 1st base, turns left and immediately goes back to 1st they are safe.
I've umpire for almost 20 years. I've never understood why people get in debates about tie going to the runner. It's really more a silly argument about the English language than about the actual rule. Myth 3 I have to take some objection to implying that runner lane interference is dependent on where the throw is coming from. While true you mostly will get calls from that location its not a requirement and could grounds for a protest. It's pretty simple, is the runner in the lane, if yes then we never have runners lane interference. If he was out of the lane then it's the umpires judgement if the runner position out side of the lane caused interference.
In regard to Myth #1: Tie Goes to the Runner ... The rule cited in this video to bust this alleged myth has absolutely nothing to do with HOW a runner is put out. This rule has always been about occupying a base as part of the general base running rules. This was previously MLB Rule 7.01; it can now be found as MLB Rule 5.06(a)(1). As to what the rule should be whenever there's a "tie", one can cite various subsections of MLB Rule 5.09(b)(4-6) (previously MLB Rule 7.08(c-e)) to make their case. Certain actions by the defense to retire the runner must occur either WHILE certain conditions exist on the runner, or BEFORE certain actions by the runner. Therefore, it is safe (no pun intended) to assume that "Tie Goes to the Runner" in these instances should indeed be absolutely true. However, there is an instance where "Tie Goes to the Runner" is not true. This involves what are generally referred to as "timing plays", where the third out is recorded on one runner (not being forced) while another (preceding) runner simultaneously touches down on home plate. In general, MLB Rule 5.08(a) (previously MLB Rule 4.09(a)) states that such a runner shall score if he touches home plate before the third out is recorded to end the inning (and the third out does not involve a forced runner). If these two events were to happen simultaneously, then it means that the runner coming home did not touch home plate before the third out was recorded on another runner, thereby nullifying his potential run. Therefore, "Tie Goes to the Runner" is false in the case of that runner trying to score on a non-force play being made on another (following) runner for the third out.
Did you really have to show an umpire with a beanie cap and his chest protector on the outside ? BtTW, the softball bunt rule you mentioned is an NCAA softball rule.
Myth #1 is not a myth but an example of a rules change. If the producer of this video clip had done his research, he would have been able to explain that "a tie goes to the runner was actually a rules change in the late 1800s. Henry Chadwick, Baseball HOF, was the chief scribe of rules at the games inception. When the game of baseball was first developed, organized baseball struggled with the concept of runner "ties" in force out situations. Initially, the rule stood as it does today (with a slight editorial change), there were no ties on force outs. After much consternation, Henry Chadwick, the chief rules interpreter and author, changed the rule to read that ties in fact did go to the runner. This was the rule for more than 15 years. In fact Chadwick was the person who coined the phrase a tie goes to the runner. However, before the turn of the century, the umpires revolted and basically forced the rule to revert to its original wording. If you want a real education read the book "Game of Inches" by Peter Morris. The book tackles many of the games myths, their origins and how and why the rules "morphed" over the years. It is educational, well researched and correct. Finally, I support the efforts of folks like Umpire-Empire that try to improve the game BUT like so much of the today's news, videos are truncated to keep a viewers attention and are not necessarily correct.
Absolutely…..the author of this video is very condescending towards others that are not umpires…..I’ve been around the game for over 50 years and have seen and played through many a rule change. The one area that umpires usually excel is “rule changes” as that’s their job. Sometimes they pass the coach by…..as for your myths, never heard number two but I can tell you if you stick the bat out to bunt and don’t at least bring the bat back a bit (if a ball) you’re gonna get a called strike. I’ll agree it’s not automatic but just merely not offering the head of the bat to the ball doesn’t constitute a “no swing”. Some attempt must be made to bring that bat back…..if an ump doesn’t call that, he’s a terrible umpire, the kind we don’t want on the field. They want to influence the game, we want to play the game….
How about the myth the hands are part of the bat. So when a batter swings at a pitch and the ball hits his hand we have a dead ball strike, if it's the third strike batters out, no advance by runners.
When discussing runner's lane interference, you said that if the catcher makes a bad throw that the first baseman could not have caught, then there is no interference on the play. This is only true in OBR, but not necessarily in Federation (NFHS). In FED Rule 8.4.1g, if the batter-runner's act of running outside the lane may have been a factor, in the umpire's judgement, in the catcher making a poor throw (for example, by attempting to throw over his head so as not to hit the runner), then the interference should still be called, even though the fielder covering first base may not have been able to catch the poor throw.
You are correct in your statement. In FED, the quality of throw should not be taken into account. But FED is the ONLY rule set that says that. And all of Warren's videos are using OBR.
Michael, in FED RLI has to do with the throw being made. Not the fielder's ability to field said throw, like in the other rule sets. That is why you could get RLI even if the ball is chucked all the way to the foul pole down the RF line.
Michael, I actually prefer the NFHS rule. The rationale is that the BR running outside the lane could be the reason for the catcher's bad throw. I've seen it plenty of times where a catcher wants to avoid drilling the runner with his throw and so he tries to throw above or around him, or tries to stop his throw, leading to a bad throw. By not calling interference in these cases, I kinda feel like I'm advocating that the catcher should drill the runner instead.
I do find it odd that NFHS (softball at least) treat this like school yard kick ball. Drill the runner in the back and their out. It's right in the case book.
That is true for NFHS rules. However, you'd be a fool of an umpire to call RLI on a clearly poor throw when the runner wasn't in the runner's lane. It's a stupid change for high school. However, if it's obvious that the throw was poor in order to not hit the runner, you might call it in NFHS. Otherwise, if the throw is bad, even under NFHS, the runner should not be called out.
A Cubs game in the 80s was suspended by rain. Game was supposed to be played later as it was the 3rd game in a 3 game series, since it made no difference in the standings towards the end of the season. Both teams in 5th n 4 th place, it was never made up. The game remains tied
You only said half of the "tie goes to the runner" myth. The runner has to get there before the ball to be safe, but there's also a rule that says the ball has to get there before the runner for him to be out. What if it's an actual tie. What if even with super slow-mo, no one can tell what happened first? I think the current replay rules say that the original call can't be overturned, no matter what it was, so basically, the tie goes to the umpire.
someone CITE the rules! EVERY rule I find says NOTHING about "must beat the ball", that's "pulled out of the ass" apparently. They ALL say the ball must be to the tag or bag BEFORE the runner, CLEARLY indicating ties go to the runner.
@@snap-off5383 here ya go: NFHS Rule 8-2 Art. 8 A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if the runner touches it before being put out. Rule 8-4 Art.2j Any runner is out when the runner fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such a base... So, this does not say "in a tie the runner is safe". No mention of a tie. There is no tie.
Wrong on ties go to the runner. Ties DO go to the runner ALWAYS. "Must beat the ball" doesn't exist in any rulebook. "before he is put out" refers to the ruling on what constitutes an out, which is the runner or bag is tagged BEFORE they touch the base. The rules are consistent, neither a batter nor a runner must "beat the ball", the fielders "must beat the runner". Its basic English.
NCAA softball used to use the ASA rulebook until about 25 years ago when the coaches decided to write their own rule book. They did, in fact, make it a rule that if you squared around to bunt and did not pull the bat back if you did not want to bunt that pitch it would be ruled a strike. When I asked one of the coaches what the difference was between a batting stance and not pulling the bat back and a bunting stance she looked at me like the hamster in her brain fell off the wheel and locked up her brain. Shortly after they instituted their own book I had to quit umpiring because my knees would no longer allow me to work behind the plate. So I don't know if this rule is still in effect or if they got smart. Many of the rules they instituted back then seemed to be nothing more than an attempt to distance themselves as far away from a men's game as they could. When the vast majority of college coaches are women it's no surprise that they did that.
2:25 actually rule 5.09 (b) 6 states “He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.” requiring the runner or the next base to be tagged before the base is reached for an out to be made. Therefore when the runner and the ball arrive at the same time, the runner is safe because he has not yet been put out, because the ball must beat the runner for him to be putout.
@@MH-Tesla That’s actually not true the other section rule says that a “a runner acquires that right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is put out” (rule 7.01). Many people keep thinking this contradicts the other rule in the event of a tie, but it doesn’t because it doesn’t say, “before he or the base is tagged” in which case there would be conflict in the case of a tie. It says “before he is put out” and in order for him to be put out the ball must beat him in accordance with the rule I already quoted.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 The truth is, the tie goes to the umpire. If you have video replay, they only over turn a call if it's clearly wrong. If there were an actual tie, that's not enough to over turn, so the tie goes to the umpire. Without video replay, it's a judgement call, so the tie still goes to the umpire. Always has, always will. 😉
@@MH-Tesla But by the rule it should go to the runner and if replay conclusively shows a tie (which isn’t currently impossible due to the blurring) it would be safe because a runner has touched the base before he or the base was tagged meaning that he was not been put out prior to touching the base and therefore has reached the base safely.
@@MH-Tesla Every "runner" rule I've been able to google says the same thing as the batter: The tag must be BEFORE the runner touches base. I wasn't able to find "before being put out" even.
Myth #1 - Tie goes to the Runner I disagree with your argument on this. The rule your are using is to clarify which runner is entitled to be on the base - it does not say how the runner is put out. 6.05 Retiring the Batter - " After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base." 7.08 Retiring a Runner - "He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner." Both these rules state that the base must be tagged before the runner touches the base. Therefore, the runner is safe if they both happen at the same time - "tie". This does not contradict rule 7.01 as the runner is safe and not out when he touches the base.
Raiph, you are technically correct but in the real world the human eye is not capable of discerning a true tie, so most umpires will call the runner out simply because he must make a call. If the play is that close either call he makes will make someone unhappy, so you might as well get the out.
It appears that the use of "before" in 7.01, 7.08, and 6.05 suggests a contradiction between acquiring a base and retiring a batter or runner that puts ties in No Man's Land. Poorly written? Definitely. They should change them for clarification. In the meantime, which takes precedence? The rule defining a runner's right to a base or the rules defining when he is put out? Since 7.01 refers to the concept of being put out and 6.05 and 7.08 DEFINE the concept itself, doesn't that imply deference to the defining rules? I say this because in reading 7.01, it is natural to ask "What does 'out' mean?" and 6.05 and 7.08 tell us. I've always used as rule-of-thumb on this that the batter/runner must "win the race to the bag" to be safe. Now, I'm not so sure. Could anyone posit an argument in favor of 7.01 that takes this contradiction into account? Also, please don't presume that ties are impossible.
This argument seems correct to me. 7.01 says the runner must touch the base before HE IS OUT, not before the ball gets there. When is that runner out? When the ball gets to the base BEFORE the runner. And in practice, the tie going to the runner is what everybody in attendance is expecting, to call otherwise is to create unneeded confusion.
So i do softball and it matters the leauge and of course the umpire for usa softball formerly asa softball. you have to offer at the pitch. having the bat in buting over plate isn't consider a stirke. However in babe ruth softball people do consider it a bunt and offer. (this why i said it matters on the umpire cause if there not offering attempt to hit than it cannot be stirke in elise it pass in the zone for stirke
If a batter squares to bunt and doesn't pull the bat back, I don't care if his bat is up high and the ball is down low, or if he holds the bat perfectly still, that's a strike. Don't believe me? Try calling that a ball and see what happens. Enjoy your argument and likely subsequent ejections.
Wrong Christopher, A strike is an intentional act to strike the pitch. Merely holding the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to strike the pitch. I have called a ball on this exact scenario and yes, an idiot coach or fan yells something about the batter needing to pull the bat back. That is not the rule. MLB players know it is best to pull the bat back to avoid avoid any misinterpretation but the FED case book clearly states "In bunting, any movement of the bat toward the ball when the ball is over or near the plate area, is a strike. The mere holding of the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to bunt."
Alan Hess You are correct by rule, but in practice you would be inviting a lot of trouble to call that a ball. If you can take the heat then more power to you, I’m calling that a strike every time and I’m not hearing a peep from either dugout when I do.
@@chrismanzoni3586 I have been taking heat for many years and have no problem enforcing the written rule even though the idiots in the stands disagree. Get the call right. As umpires, we need to be consistent in enforcing the rules.
Since you brought up softball. NFHS rules, which govern high school through out the US. Rule 2.8.2 ....in order to take a pitch, the bat must be withdrawn - pulled backward and away from the ball. The same holds true in USSSA and NCAA. But Cameron is correct that verbiage does not exist in WBSC.
I enjoy two of your explanations. But I totally disagree with tie goes to the runner explanation. You're picking a single word out of context saying that he's only entitled to a base if he gets there before he's out. As he steps on the bag he is not out unless the player has his foot on the bag and has completed and maintains control of the ball. He can't do that at the same time the batter's putting his foot on and maintains control of the ball. He can't do that at the same time the Runner is putting his foot on the base. The reason why the tie goes to the runner is just a cloak you'll short version of a portion of that rule is because it's exactly accurate. You don't know at what point the person catching the ball actually has control of it because it disappears into the players mitt. Benefits a really close call you defer to the runner the runner has the advantage. Always in that scenario. He does not have to beat the catch of the ball. He only has to get there as the ball is in the process of being caught, if it's in the process of being caught, he is not out yet. Until the ball is caught. Two of my pet peeves one is usually applies to little league and the other one applies to almost all the League's, is the automatic double play if you slide past second base or you failed me contact with second base when you slide you are automatically out and so was the runner going to Second. It's an automatic call. And yet I see it call so rarely. The first time I ever saw it called was in a game in the 1980s with alkaline in the announcer booth when Kirk Gibson rolled past second base to take the second baseman out of a double play. He was called out and so was the runner going to first. It doesn't even account for whether or not somebody was trying to make a play on the ball there can be no defensive player there at all and if you slide past the bag you're out and so is the one we're going to first. It took about three Innings before Al Kaline actually read the rule and said he had never seen it called in his career. Which is why he didn't know about it. He also said that it's a rule he really likes because this is not a contact sport should not be played like one. It is exactly why if you're a catcher don't block the access to the plate unless you have the ball already. Otherwise once contact is made and you haven't caught the ball yet the runners automatically safe because you interfered with him in the base path. And I get tired of hearing catchers whining because they got somebody rolled them over because they're blocking the base path. If you're going to play the game like that, expect to get hit. The one from Little League I actually saw a coach run out and complain to an Umpire that the kid running to first base head run straight down the Baseline and turned around to his left and walk straight back to the base he had a curved and started heading towards 2nd in any way shape or form. So he did not turn towards second base. But he argued because he made a left turn instead of a right turn to come straight back to first base that he should have been called out and the stupid umpire actually agreed with him. Because apparently neither the coach nor the Umpire knew what a turn towards second base actually meant. If your 10 or 12 ft past the base oh, where are your allowed to be you're allowed to turn around and come back to the base if you had tried to turn to second base you have forfeited the automatic walk back to first base and you can be thrown out at that point.
I don't think you really busted any myths as much as you just added your own interpretation of the rules to the thousands of others that are out there.
Jivan Scarano, You are totally wrong and are the type of person who perpetuates these myths. All foul tips are live balls. If the ball is touched by the bat and goes sharp and direct to anything other than the catcher's hand or glove, it is a foul ball and is a dead ball. You would do well to look up the definition of a foul tip.
@@Jivvi That is basically only true if there are no runners on base. However if there are runners on, then the real rule of a foul tip versus a foul ball matters and you are not correct with your comment because if a runner is trying to steal on a foul ball he has to go back, however on a foul tip even if there is only 1 strike he continues to try his attempt at stealing and the catcher can still try to make a play on the runner. So your comment is not correct.
I think that is why for the most part announcers/broadcasters usually have a great deal of experience and good knowledge base of the game they do broadcast, etc. No one is perfect.
Announcers have very little knowledge of the rules. They constantly call foul balls foul tips. They don't know the difference between a ground rule double and a book rule double. They don't know the difference between interference and obstruction. They know nothing about base awards when a ball is thrown out of play. When an unusual situation arises, they are completely lost. If you really aspire to become an announcer, please learn the rules and do not run off at the mouth like most announcers do. Every MLB game I watch, the announcers say something totally wrong.
![ลองสั่งของจากแอพ temu ถูกจริงหรอ?? ( part : 1/2 ) [โกงไหมครับ ep.89 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RTcZSQTiDZw/mqdefault.jpg)
Reference: Myth #1 Tie Goes to the Runner (1:50 time mark).
As noted by others, the rules were re-written by Major League Baseball in 2015.
Rule 7.01 was completely overhauled. Runner being called out is now covered under MLB Rule 5.09(b)(6), which states that the runner is out when "He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner." This puts the burden on the defensive team to touch the player or to touch the base BEFORE the runner touches the base. In effect, a tie now goes to the runner.
The rules applying to the batter running to 1st base are similarly written and covered under MLB Rule 5.09(a)(10). Again, a tie goes to the batter running to 1st base.
P.S. This video was first published in 2018, well after the 2015 rules went into effect. The author's quoting of the obsolete rule is somewhat surprising.
I've been watching baseball since the late 70's and umpiring since the mid 80's. As soon as I see a tie, I'll let you know...
Top Gun allows ties in pool play.
@@baseballumpires6901 ...I was referring to a tie on a force play.
@@1969EType ahhh, gotcha. Yeah, no such thing as a tie. Either safe or out. Judgment call what happened first. Foot or catch.
Note: Myth #1 above. He refers in the comments to the rules of MLB 2017. It's last year as rule 7.01 was MLB.com rules 2014. MLB.com rules 2015 onward have this, reworded, in 5.09(b)(6).
Runner ------------ changed
2014 MLB rules: 7.01 - A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out.
2019 MLB rules: 5.09(b)(6) - He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
Batter ------------- same
2014 MLB rules: 6.05(j) - After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;
2019 MLB rules: 5.09(a)(10) - After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;
The keyword in these rules is "before". Just go with 2019...2014 at this point is not relevant. Thoughtful vid. Thanks for posting.
I believe it's still the same. The rule under the batter section (5) says it one way. The rule under the runner section (7) says it the other way.
If you think of #2 as a batting stance it makes sense. When you are in a regular batting stance and you don't swing at a pitch that is not in the strike zone, it is not a strike. When you are in the bunting stance that is just another kind of batting stance. if you make no attempt to make contact with the baseball, and the pitch is not in the strike zone, it is not a strike.
Myth #2 is just preposterous and I've never heard it before. I'd like to see more myths addressed here. One of my favorites is that a batter-runner must turn towards foul territory after passing first base safely or he can be put out. Also, I'm pretty sure that a batter isn't awarded first base when hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone. Am I right about this? If so, which rule applies? This doesn't seem to be enforced on the Major League level.
I would love to hear those ones addressed as well
A Hit by pitch when there is a swing or its in the strike zone is a strike and a dead ball. In addition if a batter is hit by a pitch that’s a ball but makes not attempt to move out of the way it is supposed to be ruled a ball and not a free pass to first base. Never seen this called in an MLB game but I have seen a ball called instead of a kid getting first base a few times in a HS game where the kid just watched a lollipop lob 2 mph curveball right into his shoulder without even flinching.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 I believe I have seen a batter not given a base for not trying to get out of the way in mlb but can’t remember when.
The batter runner can turn any way when they over run 1st. The rule states the batter runner has to make an attempt to go to 2nd to be tagged out at 1st. So if the batter runner over runs 1st base, turns left and immediately goes back to 1st they are safe.
I've umpire for almost 20 years. I've never understood why people get in debates about tie going to the runner. It's really more a silly argument about the English language than about the actual rule.
Myth 3 I have to take some objection to implying that runner lane interference is dependent on where the throw is coming from. While true you mostly will get calls from that location its not a requirement and could grounds for a protest.
It's pretty simple, is the runner in the lane, if yes then we never have runners lane interference. If he was out of the lane then it's the umpires judgement if the runner position out side of the lane caused interference.
Its about the words that the rules use. "Must beat the ball" is logically different than "must tag before".
In regard to Myth #1: Tie Goes to the Runner ...
The rule cited in this video to bust this alleged myth has absolutely nothing to do with HOW a runner is put out. This rule has always been about occupying a base as part of the general base running rules. This was previously MLB Rule 7.01; it can now be found as MLB Rule 5.06(a)(1).
As to what the rule should be whenever there's a "tie", one can cite various subsections of MLB Rule 5.09(b)(4-6) (previously MLB Rule 7.08(c-e)) to make their case. Certain actions by the defense to retire the runner must occur either WHILE certain conditions exist on the runner, or BEFORE certain actions by the runner. Therefore, it is safe (no pun intended) to assume that "Tie Goes to the Runner" in these instances should indeed be absolutely true.
However, there is an instance where "Tie Goes to the Runner" is not true. This involves what are generally referred to as "timing plays", where the third out is recorded on one runner (not being forced) while another (preceding) runner simultaneously touches down on home plate. In general, MLB Rule 5.08(a) (previously MLB Rule 4.09(a)) states that such a runner shall score if he touches home plate before the third out is recorded to end the inning (and the third out does not involve a forced runner). If these two events were to happen simultaneously, then it means that the runner coming home did not touch home plate before the third out was recorded on another runner, thereby nullifying his potential run.
Therefore, "Tie Goes to the Runner" is false in the case of that runner trying to score on a non-force play being made on another (following) runner for the third out.
Did you really have to show an umpire with a beanie cap and his chest protector on the outside ? BtTW, the softball bunt rule you mentioned is an NCAA softball rule.
My rant is the so called "unwritten rules". It's funny how those rules change to suit the player or team affected.
Myth #1 is not a myth but an example of a rules change. If the producer of this video clip had done his research, he would have been able to explain that "a tie goes to the runner was actually a rules change in the late 1800s. Henry Chadwick, Baseball HOF, was the chief scribe of rules at the games inception. When the game of baseball was first developed, organized baseball struggled with the concept of runner "ties" in force out situations. Initially, the rule stood as it does today (with a slight editorial change), there were no ties on force outs. After much consternation, Henry Chadwick, the chief rules interpreter and author, changed the rule to read that ties in fact did go to the runner. This was the rule for more than 15 years. In fact Chadwick was the person who coined the phrase a tie goes to the runner. However, before the turn of the century, the umpires revolted and basically forced the rule to revert to its original wording. If you want a real education read the book "Game of Inches" by Peter Morris. The book tackles many of the games myths, their origins and how and why the rules "morphed" over the years. It is educational, well researched and correct. Finally, I support the efforts of folks like Umpire-Empire that try to improve the game BUT like so much of the today's news, videos are truncated to keep a viewers attention and are not necessarily correct.
Absolutely…..the author of this video is very condescending towards others that are not umpires…..I’ve been around the game for over 50 years and have seen and played through many a rule change. The one area that umpires usually excel is “rule changes” as that’s their job. Sometimes they pass the coach by…..as for your myths, never heard number two but I can tell you if you stick the bat out to bunt and don’t at least bring the bat back a bit (if a ball) you’re gonna get a called strike. I’ll agree it’s not automatic but just merely not offering the head of the bat to the ball doesn’t constitute a “no swing”. Some attempt must be made to bring that bat back…..if an ump doesn’t call that, he’s a terrible umpire, the kind we don’t want on the field. They want to influence the game, we want to play the game….
How about the myth the hands are part of the bat. So when a batter swings at a pitch and the ball hits his hand we have a dead ball strike, if it's the third strike batters out, no advance by runners.
So sources of baseball myths: Everybody.
When discussing runner's lane interference, you said that if the catcher makes a bad throw that the first baseman could not have caught, then there is no interference on the play. This is only true in OBR, but not necessarily in Federation (NFHS). In FED Rule 8.4.1g, if the batter-runner's act of running outside the lane may have been a factor, in the umpire's judgement, in the catcher making a poor throw (for example, by attempting to throw over his head so as not to hit the runner), then the interference should still be called, even though the fielder covering first base may not have been able to catch the poor throw.
You are correct in your statement. In FED, the quality of throw should not be taken into account.
But FED is the ONLY rule set that says that. And all of Warren's videos are using OBR.
Michael, in FED RLI has to do with the throw being made. Not the fielder's ability to field said throw, like in the other rule sets.
That is why you could get RLI even if the ball is chucked all the way to the foul pole down the RF line.
Michael, I actually prefer the NFHS rule. The rationale is that the BR running outside the lane could be the reason for the catcher's bad throw. I've seen it plenty of times where a catcher wants to avoid drilling the runner with his throw and so he tries to throw above or around him, or tries to stop his throw, leading to a bad throw. By not calling interference in these cases, I kinda feel like I'm advocating that the catcher should drill the runner instead.
I do find it odd that NFHS (softball at least) treat this like school yard kick ball. Drill the runner in the back and their out. It's right in the case book.
That is true for NFHS rules. However, you'd be a fool of an umpire to call RLI on a clearly poor throw when the runner wasn't in the runner's lane. It's a stupid change for high school. However, if it's obvious that the throw was poor in order to not hit the runner, you might call it in NFHS. Otherwise, if the throw is bad, even under NFHS, the runner should not be called out.
Great job..
Really helpful especially for a rookie umpire...thanks!
A Cubs game in the 80s was suspended by rain. Game was supposed to be played later as it was the 3rd game in a 3 game series, since it made no difference in the standings towards the end of the season. Both teams in 5th n 4 th place, it was never made up. The game remains tied
ahh you should do the bat our part of the hands (lol) which they aren't i had to explain this one couple times.
You only said half of the "tie goes to the runner" myth. The runner has to get there before the ball to be safe, but there's also a rule that says the ball has to get there before the runner for him to be out. What if it's an actual tie. What if even with super slow-mo, no one can tell what happened first? I think the current replay rules say that the original call can't be overturned, no matter what it was, so basically, the tie goes to the umpire.
Actually it say the runner has to get there before he is out not before the ball, therefore in a tie the runner is safe.
someone CITE the rules! EVERY rule I find says NOTHING about "must beat the ball", that's "pulled out of the ass" apparently. They ALL say the ball must be to the tag or bag BEFORE the runner, CLEARLY indicating ties go to the runner.
@@snap-off5383 here ya go: NFHS Rule 8-2 Art. 8 A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if the runner touches it before being put out.
Rule 8-4 Art.2j Any runner is out when the runner fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such a base...
So, this does not say "in a tie the runner is safe". No mention of a tie. There is no tie.
@@willowbrook2717 MLB rule is 5.09(a)(10) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base;
I’m going to abuse all of these rules
Wrong on ties go to the runner. Ties DO go to the runner ALWAYS. "Must beat the ball" doesn't exist in any rulebook. "before he is put out" refers to the ruling on what constitutes an out, which is the runner or bag is tagged BEFORE they touch the base. The rules are consistent, neither a batter nor a runner must "beat the ball", the fielders "must beat the runner". Its basic English.
NCAA softball used to use the ASA rulebook until about 25 years ago when the coaches decided to write their own rule book. They did, in fact, make it a rule that if you squared around to bunt and did not pull the bat back if you did not want to bunt that pitch it would be ruled a strike. When I asked one of the coaches what the difference was between a batting stance and not pulling the bat back and a bunting stance she looked at me like the hamster in her brain fell off the wheel and locked up her brain. Shortly after they instituted their own book I had to quit umpiring because my knees would no longer allow me to work behind the plate. So I don't know if this rule is still in effect or if they got smart.
Many of the rules they instituted back then seemed to be nothing more than an attempt to distance themselves as far away from a men's game as they could. When the vast majority of college coaches are women it's no surprise that they did that.
NFHS Softball also has the rule where unless the bunt is pulled back... it's a strike
I'd say that Coaches do know the rules, but they are ALWAYS going to interpret those rules in their own favour. That is just human nature.
2:25 actually rule 5.09 (b) 6 states “He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.” requiring the runner or the next base to be tagged before the base is reached for an out to be made. Therefore when the runner and the ball arrive at the same time, the runner is safe because he has not yet been put out, because the ball must beat the runner for him to be putout.
@@MH-Tesla That’s actually not true the other section rule says that a “a runner acquires that right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is put out” (rule 7.01). Many people keep thinking this contradicts the other rule in the event of a tie, but it doesn’t because it doesn’t say, “before he or the base is tagged” in which case there would be conflict in the case of a tie. It says “before he is put out” and in order for him to be put out the ball must beat him in accordance with the rule I already quoted.
@@kevinmoynihan5118 The truth is, the tie goes to the umpire. If you have video replay, they only over turn a call if it's clearly wrong. If there were an actual tie, that's not enough to over turn, so the tie goes to the umpire. Without video replay, it's a judgement call, so the tie still goes to the umpire. Always has, always will. 😉
@@MH-Tesla But by the rule it should go to the runner and if replay conclusively shows a tie (which isn’t currently impossible due to the blurring) it would be safe because a runner has touched the base before he or the base was tagged meaning that he was not been put out prior to touching the base and therefore has reached the base safely.
@@MH-Tesla Every "runner" rule I've been able to google says the same thing as the batter: The tag must be BEFORE the runner touches base. I wasn't able to find "before being put out" even.
Myth #1 - Tie goes to the Runner
I disagree with your argument on this. The rule your are using is to clarify which runner is entitled to be on the base - it does not say how the runner is put out.
6.05 Retiring the Batter - " After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base."
7.08 Retiring a Runner - "He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner."
Both these rules state that the base must be tagged before the runner touches the base. Therefore, the runner is safe if they both happen at the same time - "tie". This does not contradict rule 7.01 as the runner is safe and not out when he touches the base.
Raiph, you are technically correct but in the real world the human eye is not capable of discerning a true tie, so most umpires will call the runner out simply because he must make a call. If the play is that close either call he makes will make someone unhappy, so you might as well get the out.
It appears that the use of "before" in 7.01, 7.08, and 6.05 suggests a contradiction between acquiring a base and retiring a batter or runner that puts ties in No Man's Land. Poorly written? Definitely. They should change them for clarification. In the meantime, which takes precedence? The rule defining a runner's right to a base or the rules defining when he is put out? Since 7.01 refers to the concept of being put out and 6.05 and 7.08 DEFINE the concept itself, doesn't that imply deference to the defining rules? I say this because in reading 7.01, it is natural to ask "What does 'out' mean?" and 6.05 and 7.08 tell us. I've always used as rule-of-thumb on this that the batter/runner must "win the race to the bag" to be safe. Now, I'm not so sure. Could anyone posit an argument in favor of 7.01 that takes this contradiction into account? Also, please don't presume that ties are impossible.
This argument seems correct to me. 7.01 says the runner must touch the base before HE IS OUT, not before the ball gets there. When is that runner out? When the ball gets to the base BEFORE the runner.
And in practice, the tie going to the runner is what everybody in attendance is expecting, to call otherwise is to create unneeded confusion.
So i do softball and it matters the leauge and of course the umpire for usa softball formerly asa softball. you have to offer at the pitch. having the bat in buting over plate isn't consider a stirke. However in babe ruth softball people do consider it a bunt and offer. (this why i said it matters on the umpire cause if there not offering attempt to hit than it cannot be stirke in elise it pass in the zone for stirke
If a batter squares to bunt and doesn't pull the bat back, I don't care if his bat is up high and the ball is down low, or if he holds the bat perfectly still, that's a strike. Don't believe me? Try calling that a ball and see what happens. Enjoy your argument and likely subsequent ejections.
Wrong Christopher, A strike is an intentional act to strike the pitch. Merely holding the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to strike the pitch. I have called a ball on this exact scenario and yes, an idiot coach or fan yells something about the batter needing to pull the bat back. That is not the rule.
MLB players know it is best to pull the bat back to avoid avoid any misinterpretation but the FED case book clearly states "In bunting, any movement of the bat toward the ball when the ball is over or near the plate area, is a strike. The mere holding of the bat in the strike zone is not an attempt to bunt."
Alan Hess You are correct by rule, but in practice you would be inviting a lot of trouble to call that a ball. If you can take the heat then more power to you, I’m calling that a strike every time and I’m not hearing a peep from either dugout when I do.
@Big Nasty My quotation marks are 100% correct. I put quotation marks around the part of the rule I copied and pasted directly from the Case Book.
@@chrismanzoni3586 I have been taking heat for many years and have no problem enforcing the written rule even though the idiots in the stands disagree. Get the call right. As umpires, we need to be consistent in enforcing the rules.
#2 is not a Softball/ fast pitch rule, at least not in Canada or the WBSC.
Cameron Woodcock ygvtgtfb
Cameron Woodcock nobody cares
Since you brought up softball. NFHS rules, which govern high school through out the US. Rule 2.8.2 ....in order to take a pitch, the bat must be withdrawn - pulled backward and away from the ball.
The same holds true in USSSA and NCAA. But Cameron is correct that verbiage does not exist in WBSC.
There are no ties in baseball. Either the runner is safe, or he's out. End of story
And if it actually is a tie, even with a super slow-mo replay. The umpire's original call stands.
I enjoy two of your explanations. But I totally disagree with tie goes to the runner explanation. You're picking a single word out of context saying that he's only entitled to a base if he gets there before he's out. As he steps on the bag he is not out unless the player has his foot on the bag and has completed and maintains control of the ball. He can't do that at the same time the batter's putting his foot on and maintains control of the ball. He can't do that at the same time the Runner is putting his foot on the base. The reason why the tie goes to the runner is just a cloak you'll short version of a portion of that rule is because it's exactly accurate. You don't know at what point the person catching the ball actually has control of it because it disappears into the players mitt. Benefits a really close call you defer to the runner the runner has the advantage. Always in that scenario. He does not have to beat the catch of the ball. He only has to get there as the ball is in the process of being caught, if it's in the process of being caught, he is not out yet. Until the ball is caught.
Two of my pet peeves one is usually applies to little league and the other one applies to almost all the League's, is the automatic double play if you slide past second base or you failed me contact with second base when you slide you are automatically out and so was the runner going to Second. It's an automatic call. And yet I see it call so rarely. The first time I ever saw it called was in a game in the 1980s with alkaline in the announcer booth when Kirk Gibson rolled past second base to take the second baseman out of a double play. He was called out and so was the runner going to first. It doesn't even account for whether or not somebody was trying to make a play on the ball there can be no defensive player there at all and if you slide past the bag you're out and so is the one we're going to first. It took about three Innings before Al Kaline actually read the rule and said he had never seen it called in his career. Which is why he didn't know about it. He also said that it's a rule he really likes because this is not a contact sport should not be played like one. It is exactly why if you're a catcher don't block the access to the plate unless you have the ball already. Otherwise once contact is made and you haven't caught the ball yet the runners automatically safe because you interfered with him in the base path. And I get tired of hearing catchers whining because they got somebody rolled them over because they're blocking the base path. If you're going to play the game like that, expect to get hit.
The one from Little League I actually saw a coach run out and complain to an Umpire that the kid running to first base head run straight down the Baseline and turned around to his left and walk straight back to the base he had a curved and started heading towards 2nd in any way shape or form. So he did not turn towards second base. But he argued because he made a left turn instead of a right turn to come straight back to first base that he should have been called out and the stupid umpire actually agreed with him. Because apparently neither the coach nor the Umpire knew what a turn towards second base actually meant. If your 10 or 12 ft past the base oh, where are your allowed to be you're allowed to turn around and come back to the base if you had tried to turn to second base you have forfeited the automatic walk back to first base and you can be thrown out at that point.
I don't think you really busted any myths as much as you just added your own interpretation of the rules to the thousands of others that are out there.
"Foul tip" No, it's a foul ball, Mr. announcer...
Wrong, a foul tip is a live ball vs a foul ball which is a dead ball. Very different.
A foul tip is a strike, so usually it's a dead ball too. It only becomes live if it's a third strike and it isn't caught.
Jivan Scarano, You are totally wrong and are the type of person who perpetuates these myths. All foul tips are live balls. If the ball is touched by the bat and goes sharp and direct to anything other than the catcher's hand or glove, it is a foul ball and is a dead ball. You would do well to look up the definition of a foul tip.
@@Jivvi That is basically only true if there are no runners on base. However if there are runners on, then the real rule of a foul tip versus a foul ball matters and you are not correct with your comment because if a runner is trying to steal on a foul ball he has to go back, however on a foul tip even if there is only 1 strike he continues to try his attempt at stealing and the catcher can still try to make a play on the runner. So your comment is not correct.
Announcers know the rules I’m pursuing my dream as a sports broadcaster
I think that is why for the most part announcers/broadcasters usually have a great deal of experience and good knowledge base of the game they do broadcast, etc. No one is perfect.
Announcers have very little knowledge of the rules. They constantly call foul balls foul tips. They don't know the difference between a ground rule double and a book rule double. They don't know the difference between interference and obstruction. They know nothing about base awards when a ball is thrown out of play. When an unusual situation arises, they are completely lost. If you really aspire to become an announcer, please learn the rules and do not run off at the mouth like most announcers do. Every MLB game I watch, the announcers say something totally wrong.