@@Roberto_Marx No need to be bitter, Windows handhelds aren't for console people anyway, they're more for people who have high end rigs who want to step away from the desk and have a different kind of experience. AC Valhalla was sat rotting in my library for 6 month because I got it on deal but I played and enjoyed it on the couch while watching TV with the GF on my Ally.
One more thing worth noting - the memory bus isn't the only thing that can go wide and slow. The GPU could too, and Microsoft has specifically called this out in their design docs for the XSX It will depend a lot on how much density improvements N3 gives because wide and slow = more expensive, but it's another way power can be saved with equal performance
@@ThePhawx All things considered, I don't think MS will be releasing a handheld. That would be reactionary, and not at-all something properly thought out and strategized for the decade (as consoles go).
@@ThePhawx I mean here is a hypothetical universe, diverging a few years ago, where MS did actually plan this out: - development kits roll out to publishers of an underpowered console - no clue whatsoever that it is handheld, it's just a big tower for the coders and testers - people think it is just a refreshed Xbox One X - Sony obviously learns about this console, and adjusts their console accordingly (the PS5 gets much weaker) - MS announces "The Xboy" in Q3 2020, and releases it in Q4 2020 - Xboy SoC is 5nm, 8-core Zen3+, 16-core RDNA iGPU, 16GB RAM at LPDDR4-3600, and 512GB nVme - Xboy specs are 1280x800, LCD, 20Hz-60Hz VRR. 40Wh Battery. Similar body to ASUS ROG Ally. - Next-gen games run really well, but with tweaks (Medium Settings, Textures, Draw Distances, etc etc). Games usually run at locked 24fps, upto a dynamic 60fps. All games rendered at a minimum 720p resolution, internal boosting possible with FSR. - Battery life is 2.0 hours target, with most games stretching it to the 3.0 hour mark, thanks to clever balancing and optimisations. - GPD Win 3 customers look foolish, and this breathes fresh life into the handheld market. - Overall this handheld is better than Xbox One X. And to foster success, MS makes The Xboy become compatible with all Xbox One games, some with OneX patches. With future update to allow Xbox and 360 games to be compatible as well, however, the system is digital download only. - Due to pandemic, MS opens direct sales to customers (shipped) and curbs scalpers by giving invites through Xbox Live accounts, based on longevity and activity. Sony suffers scalpers. - MS was designing the XSX but decides to hold-off due to unusual economic conditions with the pan dimec. But they're doing really well with their handheld, boasting better early sales than the "Weak PS5" - Then in Q4 2022 they finally release their next-gen console, they call The Xbox V - This time it's running similar specs to the handheld, but at double the CPU clockspeed (same cores), and quadruple the GPU cores (same frequency). As well as upgrade to 32GB RAM and 1TB storage. - MS advertises and makes a mandate, that the Xbox V will run all the same games as The Xboy, but will run them at a minimum 60fps and 2160p resolution. Usually with visual enhancements on top. - To sweeten the deal, MS makes a limited time promotion that whomever exchanges their Xbox One S or Xbox One X, will get a big discount. This speeds up the transition to ditch the old generation and adopt the new one. With the intention for MS to keep this Xboy/XV generation (with minor refresh) until 2028 to upgrade. - The PS5 is looking very underpowered struggling to hit 30fps, and struggling to hit 1080p, in comparison. It reminds the performance gap between the Xbox and PS2. - When 2028 comes, MS does not release another handheld. They instead co-design a phone with Lenovo for the Global Market. It comes with JungleCat controller in the box and a year subscription to the Xbox Cloud service. As for the console, they release something new for the living room. The caveat being that if you bought the phone, you can pick up your game at home or on the go. It's the same game, but it's just the graphics that are different. - And so, MS does brilliantly for this 9th gen consoles, and moves unto bigger and greater things for the 10th gen consoles. - But all of this requires vision, planning, and a dedicated team to execute it. It seems like MS lacks on many fronts here. So I don't expect a Xbox Handheld from them, let alone something as great as the aforementioned Xboy in this hypothetical timeline. There are many other mistakes this huge corporation has done in the past 20 years, so it's a bit of a surprise they're even here.
if they come out with a handheld and a console, that can do modern graphics at 60fps they might actually have a compelling hardware ecosystem to compete with the PC right now the convenience of the same purchase being able to be used on both my desktop and portable devices is making sure i basically only buy PC games but this could change that for many
Surface Pro 10 Consumer Edition should be announced soon with Snapdragon X Elite ARM. I read that the Surface team are taking over development of the next Xbox device. Could be cost-cutting, could be something more, possibly a dockable device? Interesting anyways.
I'm hoping this would be the real plan for a handheld Xbox running native on ARM. Not only would this be beneficial to Xbox but what they learn on optimizing their console could translate towards optimizing Windows on ARM to compete with what Apple is doing with their MAC OSX and in turn benefit their Arm sku of Surface devices. I recall Xbox was attempting to make a streaming box for gamepass at a lower cost below the Series S but plans for this was scraped when they saw the Series S was out selling the Series X. Having a premium device handheld running on Arm that can slightly be more powerful than a Series S but not as powerful as a Series X makes more sense. Somewhere in between both consoles depending if you have it plugged in to lean towards the series X or on battery where it performs closer to the series S.
You’re going to run into a lot of compatibility issues if you do that. They would want to use series s profiles so that devs don’t have to do any work. That wouldn’t work with an arm soc.
@@mrsittingmongoose ok, would that be a hardware limitation or a software compatibility issue? Steam deck seems to have this problem also on the software side as a x86 device running Steam OS so I would assume switching to ARM would be a significant hurdle to engineer. Even custom ARM based chip designed for Xbox would need intense instruction sets to help translate x86 code. I don't even think there is a 1 to 1 example of a game made for x86 ported over to Arm or vice versa. I was thinking more about how Xbox/Microsoft's acquisition of ABK could've played a part of their mobile strategy where King would lead the project of focusing their expertise on Arm based games and apply some of their work into developing a system porting over to Arm. Would that be still impossible or just too ambitious? It took years for Xbox to make all 360 games backwards compatible with Xbox One which then allowed the Xbox series S/X easier to port over. Most of these games are basically download only and 360 games are basically RISC centric games, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to reverse engineer from x86 back to RISC based ARM chips. Especially when they would have access to all of the original profiles for their studios to support third party developers to do the work for them. How difficult would compatibility be on an xbox platform designed on ARM?
@@riopato2009 it’s a mostly a hardware problem but a large software problem as well. It wouldn’t be impossible to make a new next gen console based on arm. I would even not be shocked if we say an nvidia/arm based next gen console to be honest. But we aren’t talking about a new console. We are talking about a device that would need to be seamless for developers and for users to just play their existing Xbox games on. On a simple level, you can’t assume that the Qualcomm cpu, and especially the gpu will have the same features, or support that amd does. Amd loves to run everything through their compute cores. That is way different than even nvidia does. You could probably get a translation layer to work, but you’re absolutely going to lose performance because things aren’t going to be done the way that is optimal for arm, but rather the way amd prefers. The reason steam deck works fairly well is because it’s running regular x86 hardware. If it was also running arm, that would bring a whole lot more problems. There is also bespoke hardware on the consoles that these arm platforms wouldn’t have and even if they did, they would work differently. The only way this handheld works is if it’s completely seamless for devs to make games for. Meaning, they do nothing and the series s version just runs on it. That is why deck works, because devs don’t have to do anything besides not actively block it. If devs have to make special versions(especially if they need to cater to arm), you would see very little adoption. Hell, look at the quest 2 -> quest 3. Devs don’t really need to do much to get their games optimized for quest 3. Just bump up the resolution and fps cap would be enough, but there have been barely any devs that have done that and we are talking about few hours of effort.
@@mrsittingmongoose very true and I agree but remember that Xbox's system core is already a heavily modified windows-based operating system that's been running since the original xbox and 360. Even the Xbox series consoles is a stripped-down Windows based system optimized for Direct - X. What's stopping Microsoft from switching the x86 windows core into running Windows on Arm? My fantasy here all depends on how well snap dragon elite actually runs full blown Windows in their next Surface Pro 10 for ARM. If they can make full Windows run at high performance but last 20 hours on battery, this will open up a whole new world of portable console gaming since an Xbox handheld would only need an equivalent ARM based chip that can perform better than anything AMD can make and include the needed overhead for compatibility problems. Let's not forget that this handheld would be mass produced as the same hardware equitant to a Series S, possibly higher specs for efficiency. Basically, a lower spec'd snapdragon elite specifically made for Xbox. I doubt even Nvidia would be interested partnering with Microsoft again after the fiasco with the 360 and they're already cosigned with Nintendo making their upgrade to the Switch. Devs wouldn't have to change any workflow until they get to know the hardware for both the base series S and any advantage they can take with the handheld Xbox. The whole console industry has barely taken advantage of the series S let alone the X currently when it comes to optimization so a handheld Xbox wouldn't be too much of a learning curve anyway even if they change the portable to Arm. This alone has me intrigued with what Xbox plans to do as speculation. Why gimp an X86 chip for portability when you can boost a Risc based chip if the software demands it?
Been looking forward to these APUs for a Steam Deck 2 ever since the 7840U and now 8840U. Knowing it's going to be at least another year or two before the next Deck, hopefully the Deck is successful enough as a proof of concept that Valve can get early access to whatever the Zen X/RDNA X chip AMD is working on in the next couple years.
You're missing a few things, capping a target frequency can actually hamper efficiency in power draw. Dynamic frequencies with with a pulled back TDP is actually a better respentation of performance. I guarantee you can hit the same score with lower watts by allowing the CPU to dynamically scale. CPU I/O is entirely dependent on this micro bursts of turboing to complete small tasks is better than hardsetting the frequency because work on a CPU is not consistent and never will be. I highly recommend setting a target TDP where both scores match, create a few more and draw the efficiency curve. This will outline the where it matches approximately. If an XBOX handheld can hit 4.75ghz this is good because it means it needs to spend less time hitting 3.0ghz to achieve the same amount of work and return to an idling state. Secondly the handheld doesn't have to hit the same resolution, just has to be 720p or 1080p. Most games are mid in graphics on XBOX Series S. You won't need a new processor to achieve XBOX Series S performance on a handheld either. All you need is again higher turbo on iGPU and faster memory, there is now 8000HT memory for DDR5. Dual Channel 128GB. Quad Channel 256GB. What is scary you don't even need that much memory they only need 16GB or 20GB of memory.
This might be wishful thinking… but as a steam deck owner, if an Xbox handheld could have an Xbox front end where you can add non-Xbox games to it (like steam deck does), and have an easy transition to desktop mode with windows where you can install steam (like steam deck does for Linux), the thing could be a huge hit.
@@ThePhawx true offline portability is a strong selling point. Sony would sell more ps portals if they actually ran games on the device because not everyone wants to buy a playstation. Same way not everyone wants to buy a gaming pc but the steam deck is great way to still experience some pc gaming without actually getting a gaming pc or laptop
I'm not worried about hardware. I'm more interested if Microsoft can do something about software. XBox OS. Imagine a system running xbox os with the capability of downloading games from steam and other launchers without windows being in the middle of it. The Steam Deck just works, from putting it to sleep and waking it instantly, to having everything you for simple gaming front and center while leaving the desktop OS still available but not in the middle. One can technically use the steam deck and never need to use desktop mode
It makes sense for Microsoft to go handheld. The handheld market has exploded over the last 2 years thanks to the Steam Deck for the most part, (and a cautious/lazy Nintendo) so if they want to capitalize on Gamepass, what better way than to create a better handheld experience for Windows / Xbox. What i would love to see on the handheld, is a dual boot system, one Xbox, the other a windows variant that allows PC games. That would probably also rub Sony up the wrong way too, as you could then play Playstation studio games on an Xbox licensed product.
Would be amazing if next generation X will be a traditional console while the series S is a dockable handheld. If I can dream more, the handheld Series S is running a pared down version of next generation Windows.
MS is in the same position as Valve they got a good product (their game pass) that they can leverage with a handheld designed with that in mind. They should have launched with hardware similar to the deck's years ago.
It would be cool if they did a Linux based handheld with a next get apu. Market it as a mobile game pass machine both local and cloud. Maybe do Xbox handheld game setting presets. Basically make steamdeck copy with easy game pass access.
I just want it to be compatible with our external memory cards so we can play our Xbox library of games on it natively. And keep it FPS Boost powers. PS: it should be forward compatible with the next Gen Xbox too.
I have mixed feelings on an official Xbox handheld. If it is backwards compatible then I’d love it, having a retro handheld that can natively play 360/One/Series would be nuts. If it’s not backwards compatible I don’t see much reason to buy it over a Logitech GCloud and just stream gamepass. Idk
Now the other roomer is, it could be like a streaming device of the wrong which I'm hoping it's not.Which the unit I saw gave me an expression like it was more of that but i'm hoping that i'm wrong
I'm not excited about a new device, I'm excited about a potentially better experience in our current handhelds since there will be a reason to optimize a bunch of games for portable gaming
the big question for me is, they will develop an UI launcher or some sort off ? cause if the handheld is windows os with a button to switch to mouse like stick, we have that already with many other handhelds in the market and we know what that means, windows is terrible to navigate on handheld pc. microsoft and Xbox have this big opportunity to go ahead all those.
You seems to forget one thing: compatibility issues...zen 2 is not the same architecture that zen 3-4-5 etc ....if they're releasing a dedicated xbox handled, which should share the same xbox OS as series X/S, it must stay zen 2, just like Sony have done with the future ps5 pro... No other choice , nothing to expect appart a reduction in process node...not suffisant yet imo
With deep connections between Microsoft and AMD, plus Microsoft's own Surface hardware division having built portable PCs for the last decade, I would expect the Xbox Series|G (Go) to break new ground in the handheld PC space.
This all assumes that Microsoft will use the latest and greatest tech in the Xbox handheld. It's already know that Nintendo is using old tech to keep the cost down on the "switch 2". I know Microsoft isn't as cheap on hardware as Nintendo but how much would an Xbox handheld cost if they were to use the tech that is talked about in this video? It's not going to sell very well if it costs 6 or 7 hundred dollars.
If it runs on the Xbox’s os then it’s a no for me. The games that I want aren’t even on there. If it ships with Windows then you have my attention (I will install SteamOS on it lol).
If Microsoft makes one, Sony and Valve won't be idling. But it's Microsoft. Maybe AMD will help develop this console, only to be booted and replaced last minute like what happened to the first Xbox. Intel and Nvidia hardware, in front of front row seating AMD engineers. LOL. Will Microsoft do another dick move and repeat history? We shall see. The anticipated response from Sony, Valve and other handheld PC makers would be very interesting to observe.
Microsoft barely knows how to optimize x86 on Intel let alone AMD. That ship has sailed when they abandoned Surface Neo running on a low powered sku from Intel. Lenovo barely makes devices based on that sku and ended up installing regular Windows 11 on their devices which failed miserably.
Thank you for covering this. Your are always great at making all of the handheld information much more digestible without leaving out details. I am extremely excited to see what Xbox does with a new handheld. Lets hope they watch your videos as well.
Games On My Steam Deck 512 GB LCD Steam (10) Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag Batman: Arkham Asylum Batman: Arkham City Batman: Arkham Knight DuckTales: Remastered Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade Shenmue III Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection The Witcher III: Wild Hunt Yakuza 0 Atari Jaguar (3) Atari Karts NBA Jam Tournament Edition Rayman Xbox (6) Conker: Live & Reloaded Dead or Alive 3 Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball Jet Set Radio Future NBA Street Vol. 2 Shenmue II M.A.M.E. (4) Mortal Kombat Mortal Kombat II NBA Jam NBA Jam Tournament Edition Nintendo 64 (10) Conker’s Bad Fur Day Diddy Kong Racing F-Zero X Killer Instinct Gold Mario Kart 64 NFL Blitz Super Mario 64 The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Wave Race 64 Nintendo Entertainment System (36) Anticipation Baseball Batman: The Video Game Battletoads & Double Dragon Castlevania Chip ‘n Dale: Rescue Rangers Chip ‘n Dale: Rescue Rangers 2 Contra Donkey Kong Double Dribble DuckTales Excitebike Final Fantasy Kid Icarus Kirby’s Adventure Kung Fu Kung-Fu Heroes Mario Bros. Mega Man 2 Metroid Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!! Ninja Gaiden Paperboy Popeye Super Mario Bros. Super Mario Bros. 2 Super Mario Bros. 3 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TMNT: The Arcade Game Tennis The Adventures of Bayou Billy The Karate Kid The Legend of Zelda Wizards & Warriors WWF Wrestlemania Zelda II: The Adventure of Link Game Boy (3) Dr. Mario Super Mario Land Tetris Game Boy Advance (2) Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga Mario Kart: Super Circuit GameCube (12) F-Zero GX Mario Kart: Double Dash!! Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes NBA Street Vol. 2 NFL Blitz 2002 Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Sonic Riders Soulcalibur II Star Fox Adventures Super Mario Sunshine The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker Wario World Super Nintendo (20) Aladdin Chrono Trigger Donkey Kong Country Donkey Kong Country 2 Donkey Kong Country 3 F-Zero Final Fantasy III Kirby Super Star Kirby’s Dream Land 3 Mega Man X Mortal Kombat II Super Back to the Future Part II Super Mario All-Stars Super Mario Kart Super Mario RPG Super Mario World Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island Super Metroid The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past Top Gear Nintendo Wii (10) Donkey Kong Country Returns Kirby’s Return to Dreamland Klonoa Mario Kart Wii New Super Mario Bros. Wii Sonic Colors Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity Super Mario Galaxy Super Mario Galaxy 2 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Sega Dreamcast (16) ChuChu Rocket! Crazy Taxi Dead or Alive 2 Grandia II Jet Grind Radio Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Marvel vs. Capcom: CoSH NBA 2K2 NFL 2K2 Shenmue Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Soulcalibur Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike Virtua Tennis Wacky Races Sega Game Gear (3) Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog 2 The Majors: Pro Baseball Sega Genesis (17) Aladdin Comix Zone Cool Spot Gunstar Heroes Michael Jackson’s Moonwalker Mickey Mania NFL Football ‘94 Starring Joe Montana OutRun QuackShot Starring Donald Duck Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master Sonic & Knuckles Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Street Fighter II’: Special Champion Edition Taz-Mania X-Men Sega 32X (1) Tempo PlayStation (19) Bust A Groove Bust-A-Move 4 Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Disney’s Hercules Action Game Final Fantasy IX Final Fantasy Tactics Final Fantasy VII Final Fantasy VIII Gran Turismo Herc’s Adventures Metal Gear Solid PaRappa the Rapper Parasite Eve R4: Ridge Racer Type 4 Ridge Racer Tekken 2 Tekken 3 WipEout Xenogears PlayStation 2 (17) Disney’s Kim Possible: What’s the Switch? Final Fantasy X God of War God of War II Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec Gran Turismo 4 Klonoa 2: Lunatea’s Veil Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater PaRappa the Rapper 2 Rogue Galaxy Sly 2: Band of Thieves Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoon Tekken 4 Tekken 5 Tekken Tag Tournament Sony PlayStation Portable (11) Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII Dissidia 012: Duodecim Final Fantasy God of War: Chains of Olympus God of War: Ghost of Sparta Jeanne d’Arc Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker Ridge Racer Tekken 6 Tekken: Dark Resurrection WipEout Pulse WipEout Pure Total: 200 games The big omissions are no DS and 3DS. Was never a fan of the DS when I had it. I tried putting 3DS but Citra is dead. Didn’t bother afterwards. No PS3 as I hear they usually don’t launch at all unlike on the ROG Ally and Legion Go. No need to include Wii U because the Switch already has the best ports from it. I own Resident Evil 1 & 2 on my PS1 and RE4 on my Switch but I never got into that series. I have a few doubles of the same game. Like I have NBA Street Vol. 2 for both GameCube and Xbox. The Xbox version is the one I owned. It’s the best-looking one and it loads faster during the intro. But I kept the GameCube version because Dolphin is the more mature emulator and it’s more battery efficient than Xemu. I also have the SNES and MAME version of Mortal Kombat II. The SNES port is the one I owned and mastered playing. OG Xbox is an interesting console to emulate. It was the most powerful of the 6th generation with graphics still holding up 20 years later. But it has the weakest library between it, DC, PS2, and GCN. Hence, why Xbox emulation is behind. I felt Xbox was what Sony promised to deliver with the PS2 but PS2 *technically* underdelivered. PS2 is the most popular, but it had some of the worst graphics of that four. Microsoft engineers defeated Sony in that gen with better specs. Not that PlayStation 2 was that weak. It matured by 2005. I’m playing Rogue Galaxy from 2007 and it definitely looks like the best-looking game on the console. I doubt Dreamcast could run God of War and Rogue Galaxy at 60 fps when it could barely handle Shenmue II. PS2 was very much like Sega Saturn where it had this hidden potential to make beautiful games but it was difficult to develop for. Saturn is the one I can’t run. Another complicated console to develop for similar to PS2 and PS3 but far less popular. No concise tutorials for it on TH-cam and I’m clueless how to use CHDMAN. I may skip that one like I will with NDS. I never grew up owning a Saturn, so I don’t have nostalgia for it. I barely bought it in 2004 at a GameCrazy and rarely used it. I only want to play obscure 2D platformers like Super Tempo and Tryrush Deppy but it’s no big deal if I can’t play them. MAME is very hit or miss. Can’t seem to run the Model 2, 3, and NAOMI games. Can’t even launch any Street Fighter II game or Tekken Tag. But it can run Mortal Kombat I & II and NBA Jam & TE just fine which was the opposite experience with my Vita. My Vita plays the arcade version of Super Street Fighter II perfectly but can’t play the Midway classics. I do have some stinkers like WWF Wrestlemania, The Adventures of Bayou Billy and The Karate Kid on NES. But I did own Bayou Billy and remember beating The Karate Kid many times circa 1989-1990. One of the easiest games to beat similar to Kung Fu. Since most NES games are under a megabyte, it’s easier not to be picky. If it has some childhood attachment to me, I’ll download it even if the game is awful. Steam Deck is the GOAT, folks. Can play almost every generation and for under $300 if you look at the used market. Odin 2 can’t play Wii U or any recent AAA titles like FFVII Remake and Elden Ring. Steam Deck is the perfect balance of performance, price, ecosystem, and support. It’s the best gaming device I’ve ever owned. I’m only gaming on handhelds for the rest of my life. All-Time Favorite Gaming Devices 1. Steam Deck 2. PS Vita 3. Switch 4. PSP 5. PlayStation 6. Dreamcast 7. PlayStation 2 8. Super NES 9. GameCube 10. Genesis 11. NES 12. Wii All-Time Favorite Games 1. Final Fantasy VII 2. Shenmue II 3. Tekken 3 4. NBA Street Vol. 2 5. Super Mario World 6. Ridge Racer (PSP) 7. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe 8. Mario Kart: Double Dash!! 9. Street Fighter II’: SCE (Genesis) 10. Super Street Fighter II (MAME) 11. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 12. Final Fantasy X *PS5* *Pro* I don’t need it or any console that’s tethered to a TV. AAA titles are dying. They’re becoming too expensive and too long to make. With all that power, you want AAA titles coming out every 10 years? Since the PS4/Xbone era, we don’t have limitations coming from hardware like previous gens. The limitations are coming from the man power and budget. Do developers want to spend at least 5 years making one AAA game? Console era is over. Every game system from here on out should be portable. Then I expect companies like Microsoft and Sony to be gatekeepers to their library like Valve. Most games will move to the cloud and subscription based. If you see my list of titles on my Deck, you can see I’m allergic to many modern games in Gen 7-9. I hate first-person shooters. Very few modern games I would consider fun. It’s more boring and complicated. I’m in Chapter 13 in FF7R and I don’t love it as much as the OG. There is a lot of meandering scenes and padding to the gameplay. Beautiful to look at. Not as fun to play. This is my problem with most AAA titles after Gen 6. True, they look good to look at. Give me Tifa with the graphical power we have now compared to 1997. But many of these games are also a burden and tedious to play. I read Red Dead Redemption II is a slogfest. 😴
I can't decide if I'd like a handheld from Microsoft that runs Xbox os or windows. If it ran Xbox os and Devs would actually make games scale down to work on a handheld it would be sweet. Also you could, just like steamdeck, get more performance from lesser hardware. But on the other side. If it ran windows we could get a more developed Xbox app/launcher. A better configured windows client that would benefit all other handheld manufacturers like Asus and MSI.
A dedicated Xbox OS handheld is the better plan. Windows on the steam deck runs horrible and even with all the compatibility issues with Steam OS on the Steam Deck, it's still a better experience than just running Windows natively with the addition of an Xbox app layer. Too many compromises when running Windows on a handheld. All of these handheld PC OEMs have been struggling to make Windows work flawlessly on their devices and the best they can do is to force their customers to lower their game settings manually. A native Xbox handheld console is the only way to keep the gaming experience consistent since the platform would be optimized to the hardware that would be the same mass-produced device everywhere. Also the games would be true Xbox games and not a PC port of the xbox game. Remember playing Batman Arkham Knight on PC when it launched? Total nightmare trying to get that thing running without crashes on an x86 pc.
@@riopato2009 yeh, tho the thing is. Asus doesn't make windows, Microsoft does. So if they make a windows handheld, they will also have to optimize windows which benefits other OEMs Thats why Im curious about a windows handheld (I'm not arguing for which I think they'll make. My money is on Xbox OS. I'm just toying with the ideas of which I'd prefer. Which tbh is both)
@@rednalewC Microsoft can't even make their Surface devices work without issue and they pick their own parts that's proprietary and usually behind current technology. What chance do OEMs partners have who have been making x86 PCs for decades at the bleeding edge of technology? Instead of stripping down Windows from all of its native bloat to optimize their hardware better, all of these OEMs are forced to add more bloatware in order to subsidize their overhead or add functionality to the operating system to ensure it runs the way they want Windows to run. It's embarrassing every time a PC reviewer lists how much crapware is installed on a windows based product as a status quo in their summary.
xbox series P (portable) for the mass market and xbox series Z (pro) for the niche market? what Microsoft going to choose? As long as the handheld can handle series S performance on the go, i guess we dont really care about the power consumption as you can always bring power banks with you :) But pls do 720p OLED instead of 1080p IPS.....player want stable frame rate more than high resolution on a handheld...
Problem is default windows eat 4 ram already so unless these device have at least 20gb of ram, the current apus kinda not enough ram to divide to vram and ram.
If it's not just a windows device who would buy it. Like I alreayd have all xbox games on my rog ally, pc and xbox. Why would I need a handheld that can only play xbox games, instead of all pc games?
Will be interesting to see if they will be running a version of Series S's software, a handheld version of Windows which is tied to only this device or Windows 11. If they don't use a custom Os for it it's not boding well, but that seems very unlikely. Will be interesting to see what happens. Anyone got any good speculations?
probably going to be following the trend of chunky candy bar styled handhelds. I wished one of these companies would go against the trend and follow GPD's line of products like the Win Mini or Win 4.
I'd buy this thing. There's a bunch of indie games on game pass with 2D pixelated graphics that feel dumb to play on my 65-in 4K TV. Btw doesn't Elden Ring run about as well on the steam deck as it does on Series S?
The big question is will an Xbox handheld offer anything better than what it already available? A Microsoft handheld will prove unappealing to anyone using Steam. Why? The handheld will be Microsoft expensive and the Microsoft store games will be the same. it's highly unlikely Microsoft will produce anything appealing to Steam Deck owners. Steam OS is delightfully unobtrusive and puts Windows to shame.. Oh, and Valve still haven't ruled out improving on the Steam Deck OLED.
Xbox handheld need 224 GB/s bandwidth to run existing Xbox Series S games. It is not possible with standard LPDDR5. Microsoft have 2 options: - use on-package memory like Apple M2 Pro - 200 GB/s bandwidth - usle old HBM2 memory like Intel 8809G from Intel Hades Canyon - 256 GB/s bandwidth
I was asking for an Xbox Handheld for years. Thanks god AMD exists. Also‚ I am expecting MSFT and AMD to work together making a custom APU with Zen5 and RDNA4 or RDNA5‚ depending on when they release it. I hope 3D V-Cache will come into the game‚ as I does wonders on desktop.
what's you've really shown is how bad PC platforms are at power management, and therefore, really bad for any kind of mobile device. you can drop 15 watts with manually tuning with no degradation in performance, that just means the default power management was garbage. the total power is also so much higher than core power draw it's pretty insane, where is that 10w even going? This is what happens when you share basic components and protocols with legacy desktop computers, you just can't get the power down. Compare this to some Apple MacBooks, almost 0 power at idle, and almost 0 power except to power the screen and SOC.
I've watched this a few times and joined discord just to get the tools🤣 This is great for quiet gaming on my laptop, although GHelper (tdp works on my MSI) is nicer for simplicity. I also wanted to give this a go on my laptop to tune it even lower when taking a break away from power. Great to get 8+ hours for work web and video, but I want more for gaming.!!! 😁👍
Some folks who hate windows on handhelds forget that if Microsoft makes a handheld we may see a streamlined game mode for windows, not just an xbox interface. Now if they make it entirely Xbox based that's fine too if they discount it to get gamepass subscriptions. Imagine a $400 handheld more powerful than the deck.
If Xbox wants to be on top in the pocket market for gamers... Build a good quality product that legit plays Xbox games with no windows 11 crap Create your own os that's built on Microsoft that they have been doing since 2001 50w minimum and good thermals
It could be a device that can natively run games like Kameo, Sonic 06, Far Cry Instincs Predator and Rise of the Ninja. If it can do backwards compatability i would buy one. Portable Xbox 360 sounds decent
I would love to see an Xbox handheld that plays Xbox Series and One games along with the Xbox 360 and OG Xbox Ports. Along with the return of the Blades Dash.
Microsoft may have missed their window on this project. After seeing how Sony couldn’t meet the demand for the PS Portal over the holiday season Microsoft should’ve struck sooner. Sony is now in a position to not only rebound, they can also release v2 with M.2 support.
If it's true, it's gonna be finally the year i jump to handhelds. The performance standard set by the SteamDeck is awful. The more performant ones is awful in its own ways, including the price
If Xbox/Microsoft does really make a handheld, they'd most likely strip windows to a bare minimum (barebones) put on an Xbox theme touch UI and call it a day but what would be a useful feature is if they'd be able to dual boot that OS with full windows.
If Steam can figure out a way to monetize and release SteamOS, I think they can put a large dent on Windows market share. At least in as far as pc gaming is concerned, which I'd imagine makes up a fairly large percentage of the custom built pcs. At the same time, they might be reluctant to do so as it would probably eat into their Steam Deck sales.
I just bought the Legion Go over the weekend. It’s basically a Xbox handheld. I’m playing all my Gamepass games on it. If the Xbox one is more comfortable to hold I’ll buy it though lol.
I already knew it if not why would microsoft bother to make a handheld version of windows. I think this device will run on custom OS instead of standard window with an interface similar like steam OS just for gaming.
Honestly bro, with your technical knowledge and interesting takes, I would love to hear you in a podcast with a channel like NX Gamer or Digital Foundry.
looks like xbox isnt getting any other choice but to do this. originally xbox was supposed to be a pc console. console that played pc games with direct x, hence xbox
No chance their doing a handheld, absolutely zero benefit for them to do a stand alone handheld device , they have a limited consumer base and from the series attach rate this would bomb
The transition from thumbnail to the video was pretty clean
It's been his thing for a while now. Still surprised he's the only one I've seen do it.
Yeah that was slick. I'm old and haven't seen that before on yt. Figured some MKBHD would have done something like that 😜
This plus Phil Spencer's latest comments about an Xbox handheld have me awfully excited for the future. Good insight man.
What you gonna play Redfall? Smh nobody wants that crap
@@Roberto_Marx Microsoft could allow windows to run on the handheld too.
@@jorge69696 and it will suck like all the rest of the windows handhelds.
@@Roberto_Marx No need to be bitter, Windows handhelds aren't for console people anyway, they're more for people who have high end rigs who want to step away from the desk and have a different kind of experience. AC Valhalla was sat rotting in my library for 6 month because I got it on deal but I played and enjoyed it on the couch while watching TV with the GF on my Ally.
@@elysian3623 most pc guys don’t have high end rigs.
So hybrid consoles may be the future of xbox. They could add a dock with GPU for higher resolutions on TV sets.
I love how your thumbnail transitions to the video 😄
super underrated
One more thing worth noting - the memory bus isn't the only thing that can go wide and slow. The GPU could too, and Microsoft has specifically called this out in their design docs for the XSX
It will depend a lot on how much density improvements N3 gives because wide and slow = more expensive, but it's another way power can be saved with equal performance
Fwiw, I do indeed reference this in my prior video.
@@ThePhawx All things considered, I don't think MS will be releasing a handheld. That would be reactionary, and not at-all something properly thought out and strategized for the decade (as consoles go).
@@ThePhawx I mean here is a hypothetical universe, diverging a few years ago, where MS did actually plan this out:
- development kits roll out to publishers of an underpowered console
- no clue whatsoever that it is handheld, it's just a big tower for the coders and testers
- people think it is just a refreshed Xbox One X
- Sony obviously learns about this console, and adjusts their console accordingly (the PS5 gets much weaker)
- MS announces "The Xboy" in Q3 2020, and releases it in Q4 2020
- Xboy SoC is 5nm, 8-core Zen3+, 16-core RDNA iGPU, 16GB RAM at LPDDR4-3600, and 512GB nVme
- Xboy specs are 1280x800, LCD, 20Hz-60Hz VRR. 40Wh Battery. Similar body to ASUS ROG Ally.
- Next-gen games run really well, but with tweaks (Medium Settings, Textures, Draw Distances, etc etc). Games usually run at locked 24fps, upto a dynamic 60fps. All games rendered at a minimum 720p resolution, internal boosting possible with FSR.
- Battery life is 2.0 hours target, with most games stretching it to the 3.0 hour mark, thanks to clever balancing and optimisations.
- GPD Win 3 customers look foolish, and this breathes fresh life into the handheld market.
- Overall this handheld is better than Xbox One X. And to foster success, MS makes The Xboy become compatible with all Xbox One games, some with OneX patches. With future update to allow Xbox and 360 games to be compatible as well, however, the system is digital download only.
- Due to pandemic, MS opens direct sales to customers (shipped) and curbs scalpers by giving invites through Xbox Live accounts, based on longevity and activity. Sony suffers scalpers.
- MS was designing the XSX but decides to hold-off due to unusual economic conditions with the pan dimec. But they're doing really well with their handheld, boasting better early sales than the "Weak PS5"
- Then in Q4 2022 they finally release their next-gen console, they call The Xbox V
- This time it's running similar specs to the handheld, but at double the CPU clockspeed (same cores), and quadruple the GPU cores (same frequency). As well as upgrade to 32GB RAM and 1TB storage.
- MS advertises and makes a mandate, that the Xbox V will run all the same games as The Xboy, but will run them at a minimum 60fps and 2160p resolution. Usually with visual enhancements on top.
- To sweeten the deal, MS makes a limited time promotion that whomever exchanges their Xbox One S or Xbox One X, will get a big discount. This speeds up the transition to ditch the old generation and adopt the new one. With the intention for MS to keep this Xboy/XV generation (with minor refresh) until 2028 to upgrade.
- The PS5 is looking very underpowered struggling to hit 30fps, and struggling to hit 1080p, in comparison. It reminds the performance gap between the Xbox and PS2.
- When 2028 comes, MS does not release another handheld. They instead co-design a phone with Lenovo for the Global Market. It comes with JungleCat controller in the box and a year subscription to the Xbox Cloud service. As for the console, they release something new for the living room. The caveat being that if you bought the phone, you can pick up your game at home or on the go. It's the same game, but it's just the graphics that are different.
- And so, MS does brilliantly for this 9th gen consoles, and moves unto bigger and greater things for the 10th gen consoles.
- But all of this requires vision, planning, and a dedicated team to execute it. It seems like MS lacks on many fronts here. So I don't expect a Xbox Handheld from them, let alone something as great as the aforementioned Xboy in this hypothetical timeline. There are many other mistakes this huge corporation has done in the past 20 years, so it's a bit of a surprise they're even here.
if they come out with a handheld
and a console, that can do modern graphics at 60fps
they might actually have a compelling hardware ecosystem to compete with the PC
right now the convenience of the same purchase being able to be used on both my desktop and portable devices is making sure i basically only buy PC games
but this could change that for many
Surface Pro 10 Consumer Edition should be announced soon with Snapdragon X Elite ARM. I read that the Surface team are taking over development of the next Xbox device. Could be cost-cutting, could be something more, possibly a dockable device? Interesting anyways.
I'm hoping this would be the real plan for a handheld Xbox running native on ARM. Not only would this be beneficial to Xbox but what they learn on optimizing their console could translate towards optimizing Windows on ARM to compete with what Apple is doing with their MAC OSX and in turn benefit their Arm sku of Surface devices. I recall Xbox was attempting to make a streaming box for gamepass at a lower cost below the Series S but plans for this was scraped when they saw the Series S was out selling the Series X. Having a premium device handheld running on Arm that can slightly be more powerful than a Series S but not as powerful as a Series X makes more sense. Somewhere in between both consoles depending if you have it plugged in to lean towards the series X or on battery where it performs closer to the series S.
You’re going to run into a lot of compatibility issues if you do that. They would want to use series s profiles so that devs don’t have to do any work. That wouldn’t work with an arm soc.
@@mrsittingmongoose ok, would that be a hardware limitation or a software compatibility issue? Steam deck seems to have this problem also on the software side as a x86 device running Steam OS so I would assume switching to ARM would be a significant hurdle to engineer. Even custom ARM based chip designed for Xbox would need intense instruction sets to help translate x86 code. I don't even think there is a 1 to 1 example of a game made for x86 ported over to Arm or vice versa. I was thinking more about how Xbox/Microsoft's acquisition of ABK could've played a part of their mobile strategy where King would lead the project of focusing their expertise on Arm based games and apply some of their work into developing a system porting over to Arm. Would that be still impossible or just too ambitious? It took years for Xbox to make all 360 games backwards compatible with Xbox One which then allowed the Xbox series S/X easier to port over. Most of these games are basically download only and 360 games are basically RISC centric games, I'm not sure how difficult it would be to reverse engineer from x86 back to RISC based ARM chips. Especially when they would have access to all of the original profiles for their studios to support third party developers to do the work for them. How difficult would compatibility be on an xbox platform designed on ARM?
@@riopato2009 it’s a mostly a hardware problem but a large software problem as well. It wouldn’t be impossible to make a new next gen console based on arm. I would even not be shocked if we say an nvidia/arm based next gen console to be honest. But we aren’t talking about a new console. We are talking about a device that would need to be seamless for developers and for users to just play their existing Xbox games on. On a simple level, you can’t assume that the Qualcomm cpu, and especially the gpu will have the same features, or support that amd does. Amd loves to run everything through their compute cores. That is way different than even nvidia does. You could probably get a translation layer to work, but you’re absolutely going to lose performance because things aren’t going to be done the way that is optimal for arm, but rather the way amd prefers. The reason steam deck works fairly well is because it’s running regular x86 hardware. If it was also running arm, that would bring a whole lot more problems. There is also bespoke hardware on the consoles that these arm platforms wouldn’t have and even if they did, they would work differently.
The only way this handheld works is if it’s completely seamless for devs to make games for. Meaning, they do nothing and the series s version just runs on it. That is why deck works, because devs don’t have to do anything besides not actively block it. If devs have to make special versions(especially if they need to cater to arm), you would see very little adoption. Hell, look at the quest 2 -> quest 3. Devs don’t really need to do much to get their games optimized for quest 3. Just bump up the resolution and fps cap would be enough, but there have been barely any devs that have done that and we are talking about few hours of effort.
@@mrsittingmongoose very true and I agree but remember that Xbox's system core is already a heavily modified windows-based operating system that's been running since the original xbox and 360. Even the Xbox series consoles is a stripped-down Windows based system optimized for Direct - X. What's stopping Microsoft from switching the x86 windows core into running Windows on Arm? My fantasy here all depends on how well snap dragon elite actually runs full blown Windows in their next Surface Pro 10 for ARM. If they can make full Windows run at high performance but last 20 hours on battery, this will open up a whole new world of portable console gaming since an Xbox handheld would only need an equivalent ARM based chip that can perform better than anything AMD can make and include the needed overhead for compatibility problems. Let's not forget that this handheld would be mass produced as the same hardware equitant to a Series S, possibly higher specs for efficiency. Basically, a lower spec'd snapdragon elite specifically made for Xbox. I doubt even Nvidia would be interested partnering with Microsoft again after the fiasco with the 360 and they're already cosigned with Nintendo making their upgrade to the Switch. Devs wouldn't have to change any workflow until they get to know the hardware for both the base series S and any advantage they can take with the handheld Xbox. The whole console industry has barely taken advantage of the series S let alone the X currently when it comes to optimization so a handheld Xbox wouldn't be too much of a learning curve anyway even if they change the portable to Arm. This alone has me intrigued with what Xbox plans to do as speculation. Why gimp an X86 chip for portability when you can boost a Risc based chip if the software demands it?
I love the Phawx, he's the handheld messiah!
Been looking forward to these APUs for a Steam Deck 2 ever since the 7840U and now 8840U. Knowing it's going to be at least another year or two before the next Deck, hopefully the Deck is successful enough as a proof of concept that Valve can get early access to whatever the Zen X/RDNA X chip AMD is working on in the next couple years.
This will heat things up… even for Nintendo. Competition is awesome
You're missing a few things, capping a target frequency can actually hamper efficiency in power draw. Dynamic frequencies with with a pulled back TDP is actually a better respentation of performance. I guarantee you can hit the same score with lower watts by allowing the CPU to dynamically scale. CPU I/O is entirely dependent on this micro bursts of turboing to complete small tasks is better than hardsetting the frequency because work on a CPU is not consistent and never will be.
I highly recommend setting a target TDP where both scores match, create a few more and draw the efficiency curve. This will outline the where it matches approximately. If an XBOX handheld can hit 4.75ghz this is good because it means it needs to spend less time hitting 3.0ghz to achieve the same amount of work and return to an idling state.
Secondly the handheld doesn't have to hit the same resolution, just has to be 720p or 1080p. Most games are mid in graphics on XBOX Series S.
You won't need a new processor to achieve XBOX Series S performance on a handheld either. All you need is again higher turbo on iGPU and faster memory, there is now 8000HT memory for DDR5. Dual Channel 128GB. Quad Channel 256GB. What is scary you don't even need that much memory they only need 16GB or 20GB of memory.
This might be wishful thinking… but as a steam deck owner, if an Xbox handheld could have an Xbox front end where you can add non-Xbox games to it (like steam deck does), and have an easy transition to desktop mode with windows where you can install steam (like steam deck does for Linux), the thing could be a huge hit.
Hopefully its a handheld that can natively run older xbox titles not only stream xbox games
Yea, streaming is a non-starter. Only makes sense for this to be native.
@@ThePhawx true offline portability is a strong selling point. Sony would sell more ps portals if they actually ran games on the device because not everyone wants to buy a playstation. Same way not everyone wants to buy a gaming pc but the steam deck is great way to still experience some pc gaming without actually getting a gaming pc or laptop
Phawx on stage this summer, "I'm proud to introduce to you all the Xbox Swap! Swap between handheld and docked modes with just a few swift motions."
yes “you told us” lol like this is something no one else could speculate on
Very interesting. Definitely makes sense for M$. BUT, we need a review of the new GPD Mini soon :) Please.
Ideal handheld would be a custom zen5 6c/12t cpu with a custom rdna4 gpu. 320bit bus for 20GB of shared memory.
I wish i understood it more but its still fascinating watch even if my understanding is fuzzy. Thank you for the information
I'm not worried about hardware. I'm more interested if Microsoft can do something about software. XBox OS. Imagine a system running xbox os with the capability of downloading games from steam and other launchers without windows being in the middle of it. The Steam Deck just works, from putting it to sleep and waking it instantly, to having everything you for simple gaming front and center while leaving the desktop OS still available but not in the middle. One can technically use the steam deck and never need to use desktop mode
It makes sense for Microsoft to go handheld. The handheld market has exploded over the last 2 years thanks to the Steam Deck for the most part, (and a cautious/lazy Nintendo) so if they want to capitalize on Gamepass, what better way than to create a better handheld experience for Windows / Xbox.
What i would love to see on the handheld, is a dual boot system, one Xbox, the other a windows variant that allows PC games.
That would probably also rub Sony up the wrong way too, as you could then play Playstation studio games on an Xbox licensed product.
Would be amazing if next generation X will be a traditional console while the series S is a dockable handheld. If I can dream more, the handheld Series S is running a pared down version of next generation Windows.
If they do, I wish they'd innovate on the form factor. Bring us a keyboard (sliding or clamshell), etc.
MS is in the same position as Valve they got a good product (their game pass) that they can leverage with a handheld designed with that in mind. They should have launched with hardware similar to the deck's years ago.
Snapdragon xelite arm windows handheld will be interesting
Steamdeck 2 is going to be lit.
Shouldn't an xbox handheld use gddr6 memory to keep compatibility with the existing xbox architecture?
It would be cool if they did a Linux based handheld with a next get apu. Market it as a mobile game pass machine both local and cloud. Maybe do Xbox handheld game setting presets. Basically make steamdeck copy with easy game pass access.
I just want it to be compatible with our external memory cards so we can play our Xbox library of games on it natively. And keep it FPS Boost powers.
PS: it should be forward compatible with the next Gen Xbox too.
I have mixed feelings on an official Xbox handheld. If it is backwards compatible then I’d love it, having a retro handheld that can natively play 360/One/Series would be nuts. If it’s not backwards compatible I don’t see much reason to buy it over a Logitech GCloud and just stream gamepass. Idk
Now the other roomer is, it could be like a streaming device of the wrong which I'm hoping it's not.Which the unit I saw gave me an expression like it was more of that but i'm hoping that i'm wrong
I'm not excited about a new device, I'm excited about a potentially better experience in our current handhelds since there will be a reason to optimize a bunch of games for portable gaming
the big question for me is, they will develop an UI launcher or some sort off ? cause if the handheld is windows os with a button to switch to mouse like stick, we have that already with many other handhelds in the market and we know what that means, windows is terrible to navigate on handheld pc. microsoft and Xbox have this big opportunity to go ahead all those.
You seems to forget one thing: compatibility issues...zen 2 is not the same architecture that zen 3-4-5 etc ....if they're releasing a dedicated xbox handled, which should share the same xbox OS as series X/S, it must stay zen 2, just like Sony have done with the future ps5 pro...
No other choice , nothing to expect appart a reduction in process node...not suffisant yet imo
I have a 7840HS, so I have a mini xbox in my tiny pc :P
Great video!!
Also handheld will have lower res screen so less gpu performance should be enough to match same experience as xbox series s
I've been saying that for months and months.That xbox is coming out with their own handheld
Top info cheers get at it ppl.
With deep connections between Microsoft and AMD, plus Microsoft's own Surface hardware division having built portable PCs for the last decade, I would expect the Xbox Series|G (Go) to break new ground in the handheld PC space.
I hope they fix Windows and put that on the device.
Display will never be 720p, 1080p or nothing, Reconstruction Technic like High Pixel Count not High PPI.
to be fair msft should go arm
This all assumes that Microsoft will use the latest and greatest tech in the Xbox handheld. It's already know that Nintendo is using old tech to keep the cost down on the "switch 2". I know Microsoft isn't as cheap on hardware as Nintendo but how much would an Xbox handheld cost if they were to use the tech that is talked about in this video? It's not going to sell very well if it costs 6 or 7 hundred dollars.
ZEN 5 C lets gooooooooo!
If it runs on the Xbox’s os then it’s a no for me. The games that I want aren’t even on there. If it ships with Windows then you have my attention (I will install SteamOS on it lol).
Xbox Series M is my guess for the name
If Microsoft makes one, Sony and Valve won't be idling.
But it's Microsoft. Maybe AMD will help develop this console, only to be booted and replaced last minute like what happened to the first Xbox. Intel and Nvidia hardware, in front of front row seating AMD engineers. LOL.
Will Microsoft do another dick move and repeat history? We shall see.
The anticipated response from Sony, Valve and other handheld PC makers would be very interesting to observe.
Another little 7" screen... Man I hope not..
Hmm...
PHAWX THE MAD SCIENTIST OF GAMING 🧬🎮🤖🥽🥼📄🩻🩺🧪⚗️🧫🔬
delusional xbox fanboy
This is extremely interesting. I knew this had to come one day. Spot on as always, phawx
The Handheld Master strikes again! Microsoft better wake up and get this thing done already!
XD
Microsoft barely knows how to optimize x86 on Intel let alone AMD. That ship has sailed when they abandoned Surface Neo running on a low powered sku from Intel. Lenovo barely makes devices based on that sku and ended up installing regular Windows 11 on their devices which failed miserably.
We're getting closer to the rumored "Xboy" we've been waiting for since the mid-2000's.
if microsoft selling them for cheap maybe not at this price lol
I will stick with handheld PC and Main PC because of Mods and free games(if you know what I mean 😅)
Thank you for covering this. Your are always great at making all of the handheld information much more digestible without leaving out details. I am extremely excited to see what Xbox does with a new handheld. Lets hope they watch your videos as well.
Games On My Steam Deck 512 GB LCD
Steam (10)
Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Batman: Arkham City
Batman: Arkham Knight
DuckTales: Remastered
Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade
Shenmue III
Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
Yakuza 0
Atari Jaguar (3)
Atari Karts
NBA Jam Tournament Edition
Rayman
Xbox (6)
Conker: Live & Reloaded
Dead or Alive 3
Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball
Jet Set Radio Future
NBA Street Vol. 2
Shenmue II
M.A.M.E. (4)
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat II
NBA Jam
NBA Jam Tournament Edition
Nintendo 64 (10)
Conker’s Bad Fur Day
Diddy Kong Racing
F-Zero X
Killer Instinct Gold
Mario Kart 64
NFL Blitz
Super Mario 64
The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Wave Race 64
Nintendo Entertainment System (36)
Anticipation
Baseball
Batman: The Video Game
Battletoads & Double Dragon
Castlevania
Chip ‘n Dale: Rescue Rangers
Chip ‘n Dale: Rescue Rangers 2
Contra
Donkey Kong
Double Dribble
DuckTales
Excitebike
Final Fantasy
Kid Icarus
Kirby’s Adventure
Kung Fu
Kung-Fu Heroes
Mario Bros.
Mega Man 2
Metroid
Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!!
Ninja Gaiden
Paperboy
Popeye
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
TMNT: The Arcade Game
Tennis
The Adventures of Bayou Billy
The Karate Kid
The Legend of Zelda
Wizards & Warriors
WWF Wrestlemania
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
Game Boy (3)
Dr. Mario
Super Mario Land
Tetris
Game Boy Advance (2)
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Mario Kart: Super Circuit
GameCube (12)
F-Zero GX
Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
NBA Street Vol. 2
NFL Blitz 2002
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Sonic Riders
Soulcalibur II
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Wario World
Super Nintendo (20)
Aladdin
Chrono Trigger
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Donkey Kong Country 3
F-Zero
Final Fantasy III
Kirby Super Star
Kirby’s Dream Land 3
Mega Man X
Mortal Kombat II
Super Back to the Future Part II
Super Mario All-Stars
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG
Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island
Super Metroid
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Top Gear
Nintendo Wii (10)
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Kirby’s Return to Dreamland
Klonoa
Mario Kart Wii
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Sonic Colors
Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Sega Dreamcast (16)
ChuChu Rocket!
Crazy Taxi
Dead or Alive 2
Grandia II
Jet Grind Radio
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Marvel vs. Capcom: CoSH
NBA 2K2
NFL 2K2
Shenmue
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Soulcalibur
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
Virtua Tennis
Wacky Races
Sega Game Gear (3)
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
The Majors: Pro Baseball
Sega Genesis (17)
Aladdin
Comix Zone
Cool Spot
Gunstar Heroes
Michael Jackson’s Moonwalker
Mickey Mania
NFL Football ‘94 Starring Joe Montana
OutRun
QuackShot Starring Donald Duck
Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master
Sonic & Knuckles
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
Street Fighter II’: Special Champion Edition
Taz-Mania
X-Men
Sega 32X (1)
Tempo
PlayStation (19)
Bust A Groove
Bust-A-Move 4
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Disney’s Hercules Action Game
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Gran Turismo
Herc’s Adventures
Metal Gear Solid
PaRappa the Rapper
Parasite Eve
R4: Ridge Racer Type 4
Ridge Racer
Tekken 2
Tekken 3
WipEout
Xenogears
PlayStation 2 (17)
Disney’s Kim Possible: What’s the Switch?
Final Fantasy X
God of War
God of War II
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec
Gran Turismo 4
Klonoa 2: Lunatea’s Veil
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
PaRappa the Rapper 2
Rogue Galaxy
Sly 2: Band of Thieves
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoon
Tekken 4
Tekken 5
Tekken Tag Tournament
Sony PlayStation Portable (11)
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Dissidia 012: Duodecim Final Fantasy
God of War: Chains of Olympus
God of War: Ghost of Sparta
Jeanne d’Arc
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker
Ridge Racer
Tekken 6
Tekken: Dark Resurrection
WipEout Pulse
WipEout Pure
Total: 200 games
The big omissions are no DS and 3DS. Was never a fan of the DS when I had it. I tried putting 3DS but Citra is dead. Didn’t bother afterwards. No PS3 as I hear they usually don’t launch at all unlike on the ROG Ally and Legion Go. No need to include Wii U because the Switch already has the best ports from it. I own Resident Evil 1 & 2 on my PS1 and RE4 on my Switch but I never got into that series.
I have a few doubles of the same game. Like I have NBA Street Vol. 2 for both GameCube and Xbox. The Xbox version is the one I owned. It’s the best-looking one and it loads faster during the intro. But I kept the GameCube version because Dolphin is the more mature emulator and it’s more battery efficient than Xemu. I also have the SNES and MAME version of Mortal Kombat II. The SNES port is the one I owned and mastered playing.
OG Xbox is an interesting console to emulate. It was the most powerful of the 6th generation with graphics still holding up 20 years later. But it has the weakest library between it, DC, PS2, and GCN. Hence, why Xbox emulation is behind. I felt Xbox was what Sony promised to deliver with the PS2 but PS2 *technically* underdelivered. PS2 is the most popular, but it had some of the worst graphics of that four. Microsoft engineers defeated Sony in that gen with better specs.
Not that PlayStation 2 was that weak. It matured by 2005. I’m playing Rogue Galaxy from 2007 and it definitely looks like the best-looking game on the console. I doubt Dreamcast could run God of War and Rogue Galaxy at 60 fps when it could barely handle Shenmue II. PS2 was very much like Sega Saturn where it had this hidden potential to make beautiful games but it was difficult to develop for.
Saturn is the one I can’t run. Another complicated console to develop for similar to PS2 and PS3 but far less popular. No concise tutorials for it on TH-cam and I’m clueless how to use CHDMAN. I may skip that one like I will with NDS. I never grew up owning a Saturn, so I don’t have nostalgia for it. I barely bought it in 2004 at a GameCrazy and rarely used it. I only want to play obscure 2D platformers like Super Tempo and Tryrush Deppy but it’s no big deal if I can’t play them.
MAME is very hit or miss. Can’t seem to run the Model 2, 3, and NAOMI games. Can’t even launch any Street Fighter II game or Tekken Tag. But it can run Mortal Kombat I & II and NBA Jam & TE just fine which was the opposite experience with my Vita. My Vita plays the arcade version of Super Street Fighter II perfectly but can’t play the Midway classics.
I do have some stinkers like WWF Wrestlemania, The Adventures of Bayou Billy and The Karate Kid on NES. But I did own Bayou Billy and remember beating The Karate Kid many times circa 1989-1990. One of the easiest games to beat similar to Kung Fu. Since most NES games are under a megabyte, it’s easier not to be picky. If it has some childhood attachment to me, I’ll download it even if the game is awful.
Steam Deck is the GOAT, folks. Can play almost every generation and for under $300 if you look at the used market. Odin 2 can’t play Wii U or any recent AAA titles like FFVII Remake and Elden Ring. Steam Deck is the perfect balance of performance, price, ecosystem, and support. It’s the best gaming device I’ve ever owned. I’m only gaming on handhelds for the rest of my life.
All-Time Favorite Gaming Devices
1. Steam Deck
2. PS Vita
3. Switch
4. PSP
5. PlayStation
6. Dreamcast
7. PlayStation 2
8. Super NES
9. GameCube
10. Genesis
11. NES
12. Wii
All-Time Favorite Games
1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Shenmue II
3. Tekken 3
4. NBA Street Vol. 2
5. Super Mario World
6. Ridge Racer (PSP)
7. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
8. Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
9. Street Fighter II’: SCE (Genesis)
10. Super Street Fighter II (MAME)
11. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
12. Final Fantasy X
*PS5* *Pro*
I don’t need it or any console that’s tethered to a TV. AAA titles are dying. They’re becoming too expensive and too long to make. With all that power, you want AAA titles coming out every 10 years? Since the PS4/Xbone era, we don’t have limitations coming from hardware like previous gens. The limitations are coming from the man power and budget. Do developers want to spend at least 5 years making one AAA game?
Console era is over. Every game system from here on out should be portable. Then I expect companies like Microsoft and Sony to be gatekeepers to their library like Valve. Most games will move to the cloud and subscription based. If you see my list of titles on my Deck, you can see I’m allergic to many modern games in Gen 7-9. I hate first-person shooters. Very few modern games I would consider fun. It’s more boring and complicated.
I’m in Chapter 13 in FF7R and I don’t love it as much as the OG. There is a lot of meandering scenes and padding to the gameplay. Beautiful to look at. Not as fun to play. This is my problem with most AAA titles after Gen 6. True, they look good to look at. Give me Tifa with the graphical power we have now compared to 1997. But many of these games are also a burden and tedious to play. I read Red Dead Redemption II is a slogfest. 😴
I can't decide if I'd like a handheld from Microsoft that runs Xbox os or windows.
If it ran Xbox os and Devs would actually make games scale down to work on a handheld it would be sweet.
Also you could, just like steamdeck, get more performance from lesser hardware.
But on the other side. If it ran windows we could get a more developed Xbox app/launcher.
A better configured windows client that would benefit all other handheld manufacturers like Asus and MSI.
They probably wouldn't sell as many Xbox games for if it let you play steam games
@@liamconverse8950 probably not, but they still earn on Xbox gamepass
A dedicated Xbox OS handheld is the better plan. Windows on the steam deck runs horrible and even with all the compatibility issues with Steam OS on the Steam Deck, it's still a better experience than just running Windows natively with the addition of an Xbox app layer. Too many compromises when running Windows on a handheld. All of these handheld PC OEMs have been struggling to make Windows work flawlessly on their devices and the best they can do is to force their customers to lower their game settings manually. A native Xbox handheld console is the only way to keep the gaming experience consistent since the platform would be optimized to the hardware that would be the same mass-produced device everywhere. Also the games would be true Xbox games and not a PC port of the xbox game. Remember playing Batman Arkham Knight on PC when it launched? Total nightmare trying to get that thing running without crashes on an x86 pc.
@@riopato2009 yeh, tho the thing is.
Asus doesn't make windows, Microsoft does.
So if they make a windows handheld, they will also have to optimize windows which benefits other OEMs
Thats why Im curious about a windows handheld
(I'm not arguing for which I think they'll make. My money is on Xbox OS. I'm just toying with the ideas of which I'd prefer. Which tbh is both)
@@rednalewC Microsoft can't even make their Surface devices work without issue and they pick their own parts that's proprietary and usually behind current technology. What chance do OEMs partners have who have been making x86 PCs for decades at the bleeding edge of technology? Instead of stripping down Windows from all of its native bloat to optimize their hardware better, all of these OEMs are forced to add more bloatware in order to subsidize their overhead or add functionality to the operating system to ensure it runs the way they want Windows to run. It's embarrassing every time a PC reviewer lists how much crapware is installed on a windows based product as a status quo in their summary.
xbox series P (portable) for the mass market and xbox series Z (pro) for the niche market? what Microsoft going to choose?
As long as the handheld can handle series S performance on the go, i guess we dont really care about the power consumption as you can always bring power banks with you :)
But pls do 720p OLED instead of 1080p IPS.....player want stable frame rate more than high resolution on a handheld...
The Xbox handheld should have been prototyped in 2018 after the Switch blew up. Per usual, MS is half a decade behind the curve.
I still think you called "checkmate" at the right time ❤
Sign me up for the Xbox handheld day 1
I hope it's not another PS portal 🙏
Why would Microsoft need a new SDK for an Xbox Series X that is only missing the optical drive?
sdk updates are normal even without console updates, but it sounds promising :)
imagine how much better this can get with further editing to the PBO modifiers
Phawxbox handheld
Yus!
Why not just buy a windows hand held way more flexable
Problem is default windows eat 4 ram already so unless these device have at least 20gb of ram, the current apus kinda not enough ram to divide to vram and ram.
If it's not just a windows device who would buy it. Like I alreayd have all xbox games on my rog ally, pc and xbox. Why would I need a handheld that can only play xbox games, instead of all pc games?
Will be interesting to see if they will be running a version of Series S's software, a handheld version of Windows which is tied to only this device or Windows 11. If they don't use a custom Os for it it's not boding well, but that seems very unlikely. Will be interesting to see what happens. Anyone got any good speculations?
probably going to be following the trend of chunky candy bar styled handhelds. I wished one of these companies would go against the trend and follow GPD's line of products like the Win Mini or Win 4.
Or aya neo air, without being ayaneo
I really think the "xbox handheld" is just going to be them adding a dual boot to something like the rog ally so it boots windows and xbox os
I'd buy this thing. There's a bunch of indie games on game pass with 2D pixelated graphics that feel dumb to play on my 65-in 4K TV. Btw doesn't Elden Ring run about as well on the steam deck as it does on Series S?
If it can play Blue Dragon back compatible, I'd buy it.
The big question is will an Xbox handheld offer anything better than what it already available? A Microsoft handheld will prove unappealing to anyone using Steam. Why? The handheld will be Microsoft expensive and the Microsoft store games will be the same. it's highly unlikely Microsoft will produce anything appealing to Steam Deck owners. Steam OS is delightfully unobtrusive and puts Windows to shame.. Oh, and Valve still haven't ruled out improving on the Steam Deck OLED.
Xbox handheld need 224 GB/s bandwidth to run existing Xbox Series S games. It is not possible with standard LPDDR5. Microsoft have 2 options:
- use on-package memory like Apple M2 Pro - 200 GB/s bandwidth
- usle old HBM2 memory like Intel 8809G from Intel Hades Canyon - 256 GB/s bandwidth
I was asking for an Xbox Handheld for years. Thanks god AMD exists. Also‚ I am expecting MSFT and AMD to work together making a custom APU with Zen5 and RDNA4 or RDNA5‚ depending on when they release it. I hope 3D V-Cache will come into the game‚ as I does wonders on desktop.
what's you've really shown is how bad PC platforms are at power management, and therefore, really bad for any kind of mobile device.
you can drop 15 watts with manually tuning with no degradation in performance, that just means the default power management was garbage.
the total power is also so much higher than core power draw it's pretty insane, where is that 10w even going? This is what happens when you share basic components and protocols with legacy desktop computers, you just can't get the power down. Compare this to some Apple MacBooks, almost 0 power at idle, and almost 0 power except to power the screen and SOC.
Dude your shirt is awesome!
Thanks!
I've watched this a few times and joined discord just to get the tools🤣
This is great for quiet gaming on my laptop, although GHelper (tdp works on my MSI) is nicer for simplicity.
I also wanted to give this a go on my laptop to tune it even lower when taking a break away from power.
Great to get 8+ hours for work web and video, but I want more for gaming.!!! 😁👍
Some folks who hate windows on handhelds forget that if Microsoft makes a handheld we may see a streamlined game mode for windows, not just an xbox interface. Now if they make it entirely Xbox based that's fine too if they discount it to get gamepass subscriptions. Imagine a $400 handheld more powerful than the deck.
If Xbox wants to be on top in the pocket market for gamers...
Build a good quality product that legit plays Xbox games with no windows 11 crap
Create your own os that's built on Microsoft that they have been doing since 2001
50w minimum and good thermals
It could be a device that can natively run games like Kameo, Sonic 06, Far Cry Instincs Predator and Rise of the Ninja.
If it can do backwards compatability i would buy one. Portable Xbox 360 sounds decent
I would love to see an Xbox handheld that plays Xbox Series and One games along with the Xbox 360 and OG Xbox Ports. Along with the return of the Blades Dash.
Microsoft may have missed their window on this project. After seeing how Sony couldn’t meet the demand for the PS Portal over the holiday season Microsoft should’ve struck sooner. Sony is now in a position to not only rebound, they can also release v2 with M.2 support.
If it's true, it's gonna be finally the year i jump to handhelds. The performance standard set by the SteamDeck is awful. The more performant ones is awful in its own ways, including the price
If Xbox/Microsoft does really make a handheld, they'd most likely strip windows to a bare minimum (barebones) put on an Xbox theme touch UI and call it a day but what would be a useful feature is if they'd be able to dual boot that OS with full windows.
If Steam can figure out a way to monetize and release SteamOS, I think they can put a large dent on Windows market share. At least in as far as pc gaming is concerned, which I'd imagine makes up a fairly large percentage of the custom built pcs. At the same time, they might be reluctant to do so as it would probably eat into their Steam Deck sales.
I just bought the Legion Go over the weekend. It’s basically a Xbox handheld. I’m playing all my Gamepass games on it. If the Xbox one is more comfortable to hold I’ll buy it though lol.
I already knew it if not why would microsoft bother to make a handheld version of windows. I think this device will run on custom OS instead of standard window with an interface similar like steam OS just for gaming.
There was the rumour that the original steamdeck APU was actually a design for microsoft that fell through and valve took up afterall... :)
Honestly bro, with your technical knowledge and interesting takes, I would love to hear you in a podcast with a channel like NX Gamer or Digital Foundry.
I heard macrosuck was trying to do this. Considering my last console of theirs, was the 360... I won't be getting one- if they make em.
While PS5 pro going into high end territory of PC, Xbox going into handheld is clever move. Gonna strike on that greedy Nintendo.
looks like xbox isnt getting any other choice but to do this. originally xbox was supposed to be a pc console. console that played pc games with direct x, hence xbox
No chance their doing a handheld, absolutely zero benefit for them to do a stand alone handheld device , they have a limited consumer base and from the series attach rate this would bomb
Wouldn’t it make more sense for them to use gddr memory? That’s what consoles use and it’s much faster. The latency hit doesn’t matter on a console.
Microsoft can easily get amd to make a custom ryzen 7 8700g with 3d cache for their xbox handheld
成功するにはハイブリッドでなければなりません。Nintendo Switch に似ています。
you tellin me this whole time, these "gaming handhelds" are just microsoft attempt of a windows game boy?
So xbox are tired of losing the home console to Sony, now they want to experience losing to Nintendo instead
I don't think in 20 years of gaming I ever heard that a portable xbox wasn't possible.