Her compendium might also referring to the tale of a Scandinavian girl named alice, who died after demons made her go mad, and would 'make friends' with village children to kill them so they don't leave her
I've had folks tell me this, but I personally have never actually seen or read the story myself. Like I wasn't able to find any sources of it being a real story. Even if you Google "Scandinavian Alice Story" the top five results are a film called Alice from 1988, an option to buy Alice in Wonderland in Swedish, the IMDB page for the 1988 Alice film, a Megami Tensei blog talking about that story, and the Megami Tensei wiki talking about that story. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I definitely didn't find any real sources on it in my own research, which I will fully admit is not perfect.
There's been a sort of Mandela effect on both the Megaten wiki and Wikipedia regarding this myth's origins that I and another user noticed. While the myth does seem to exist, as obviously it is mentioned by the games, there's nothing supporting the fact that it's Scandinavian.
It's a very cute animation. Im not sure which I like more: The Alice holding your hand and skipping merrily along, or Cu Chulainn carrying you Bridal Style.
4:03 Hard no. Alice's more prominent and "innocent" looking design works better as showing off her demonic creepiness. She's a demon and everyone knows it as much. Making her look /just/ normal enough can tilt your uncanny valley senses that something definitely feels off about her. Her off-shoot designs are too on the nose and just makes her look exactly like any other MegaTen demon.
Her side profile official art by kazuma kaneko is perfection and I don't agree bringing back her older designs. The recent art is perfect that it shows a simple figure of a child, but look closer at her icy skin and golden eyes maliciously staring and you can tell that this girl is a formidable demon that always gets what she wants.
Honestly, the more subdued, "porcelain doll" is the best design take for me. It has a much more sinister and uncanny creepiness that the other two are just too obvious and on the nose about. It also fits the uncomfortable narrative of Alice's ambiguous origins. This take is a static, clean design that gets the message across of being something feeling familiar at first glance, but also just unnerving enough to let you know she's definitely not human. In fact I always thought that that design was way more intimidating than the other two, and was my absolute fave. It's just so perfectly fitting for that strange, alien, and somewhat uncomfortable feeling that all the novel iterations of Alice in Wonderland always gave me even up until now from since I was a kid. The design works for me because it depicts this little girl that is perfectly "normal" and "innocent" in every conventional way--except that she's obviously not.
I've seen some people in Re:Imagine (the free fan-run server of the MMO) who have an Alice so strong that she can just AOE one-shot even some of the hardest dungeon runs and bosses. Seriously, there have been times that by the time I'm even able to enter the boss room, the boss is already dead by the time I get there because that Alice killed it already. And while I certainly plan to get and use an Alice (the MMO has multiple versions of her, but only one of them has access to her signature "Die For Me?" skill, and *THAT* version of Alice requires you to first defeat the Boss version of her just to have a small chance of giving you the item that unlocks her as a fusion option) at some point, but it won't be on my "main" character, as that character is Law alignment, and Alice (as a Fiend) is Neutral alignment, so for me to summon and use her on that character would burn through my Magnetite reserves way too fast (Magnetite is a type of farmable "currency" that is used primarily for summoning your demons).
I actually think the fact that SMT9's Alice looks like an ordinary innocent girl is a design strength. It reminds me of BB Hood where her design strength is that she looks like Red Riding Hood- an innocent-looking girl amidst a bunch of Darkstalkers and semi-Humans.
There are a few corrections and tidbits to make here: 1: In SMT2 and if, that whole thing with fighting her by opening a gold chest I think is something they added in the remakes to make her stand out. In the original, she's fought just like any other Fiend: A 1/256 chance when stepping on certain tiles littered throughout the game. I know this because I actually fought her through blind luck once in 2 - compared to SMT1, there are a lot more Fiend tiles, but I digress. 2: Remember how I said Alice was given more prominence in the remakes of 2 and if? Another way they did this was by giving her her own boss theme, which is loosely based on the Fiend theme (which actually debuted in the PS1 remake of 1 and reused for 2 and if, which all predate Nocturne Maniax), but otherwise is its own thing. I believe Imagine remixed this song as well. 3: The if remake has the distinction of being the only game where you can actually die for Alice beyond just dying in a boss fight. On a full moon, Alice can show up on the third floor of Karukozaka High School and ask for either the protagonist or their partner to play with her and, ultimately, die for her. If this is accepted, said character will die and get a new Guardian, which is a nice QoL change since in the original, you had to actually go out of your way to die in a dungeon to get new Guardians. 4: That reward for the One Girl's Happiness case file, the Staff of Death? It's actually a reference to SMT2, where the Fiends, Alice included, all had a 1/256 chance of dropping an ultimate weapon, which were all called the X Staff or Staff of X. Alice's was called the Shiki Staff/Staff of Shiki, which...I think can translate to death? I don't know Japanese, so if someone can confirm or deny this for me that would be great, but regardless, the fact that it's a Staff alone makes it a solid reference. (And as a random aside, Apocalypse would make this reference again with Matador having a rare chance to drop his Phasing Staff, along with David being able to drop his Stradivarius from SMT1 and Trumpeter dropping the Angel's Trumpet that Pale Rider can drop in 1.)
I love Alice in Wonderland, and of course she's one of my favorite demon in the series Very cool that you mentioned American Mcgee's Alice Madness Returns is one my favorites games ever
Alice is one of my favorite demons in the series and I love the little in-game lore with her, Nebiros, and Belial forming a (somewhat scary) family. C: Thanks for the Video, dude. Also, F for Strain42. Hope the Underworld is alright for you.
In Persona 5 and Persona 5 Royal... she technically is the mascot for the Maid Cafe in Akihabara. If you look at the board outside it has a silhouette of her with maid attire and the cafe is called "Alice's Apron"
Alice the mega death loli. I find her porcelain skin-straight hair desigh to be creepier than her other counterparts. She seems more ominous and otherworldly.
Honestly I love the demon Alice's design, it seems cute to a young kid but when you see the Die for Me spell, you immediately become scared of the demon... 😄
It is a fun tale and I'd be happy to cover it. I'm just waiting for it to have a bit more to do in the franchise first. See if it pops up in SMTV or something.
Alongside Demonee-Ho (I loved Strange Journey), Alice will forever be one of my all time favorite demons. I had her as a mount on SMT Imagine. I loved her so much
It's funny how a little british girl is part of the demonic race almost exclusive to skeletons and characters from the apocalypse (and a giant ship engine with legs but let's ignore that...)
interestingly enough even though theres an alice boss in scramble/strikers the iconic demon alice is still summonable in that game and shes one of teh few demons with a unique showtime attack being her die for me attack, also recently found out her regular non showtime die for me attack can still kill even mini bosses on merciless difficulty which can save tons of time if you lucky
when i hacked persona q i decided to give myself alice as a persona my logic was that since SHE can traverse the wonderland so easily i could too yeah i didnt cheat after that
I like Alice's current design mainly because Akira / Ren / Joker used her to fight Shido in the anime. One of the only good parts of that anime tbh. And the funny thing is that Shido thought it was a weak persona but was clearly caught in a LAST SURPRISE.
It wouldn't be Megami Tensei without Alice's Adventures in Wonderland used constantly. She'll always be my daughter, and the scene from P3/P4 routes during You in Wonderland where the characters are shrunken will be funny as shit after nearly a decade since PQ released.
Ladies and gentlemen beware of Alice the lethal loli, because she is adorable nightmare fuel. You will either say dawwwwww or ahhhhhhhh! before you die.
If I had a nickel for everytime a little girl called Alice tried to kill me in a RPG, I would have 2 nickels, which isn't much, but it is weird it happened twice.
While I don't believe that Lewis Carol was actually... "Into" little girls, a lot of things are explainable with how peculiar victorian england was. It wasn't just him who was interested in little girls, it was literally everybody. British people of the era had some really strange worldviews, for example how owning a cat is noble because it "Demonstrates man's domination over nature". From what I know about Carol, or as he was really called Charles Dodgson was... a weird man, for sure. But not in a creepy way, he was very much a child at heart and were he living today, he would most likely work as a child entertainer. Seemed to have been a good friend and people asked about him had mostly positive things to say I'm more questioning of why Japanese people seem to keep gravitating to Alice in Wonderland being this creepy dark victorian setting, rather than goofy absurdism filled with injokes
@@toooydoeur All right, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Since I made that comment I have seen the little things and someone sent me that weird video explaining lolicon, so I'll be lenient this time.
I eventually want to do a Top 10 Persona 5 Personas, and I'll use that video to provide an update on my old list. But I also wanna make sure we're like...DONE with Persona 5 first. I don't wanna do that video and then when we get Persona 5 Supreme Baseball or something we're introduced to some new Persona that totally knocks my socks off, y'know?
Almost every video I do where I mention Belial I pronounce it differently and someone always says its wrong. I’m genuinely convinced there is no right pronunciation at this point.
@@toooydoeur Merriam-Webster says otherwise. There are multiple pronunciations because the name comes from a Hebrew word that has no one correct way to say it in English. Heck, there are even some versions where it's spelled/pronounced with a V instead of a B. In Last Bible they called him Vaerial.
"Alice is a mountable demon."
PANIK
"She'll hold your hand and skip merrily."
Kalm
FBI: Abort! Abort!
Ladies and gentlement, we got him
panik? come on, is a demon not a human, is fine 😒
@@RAGNATHEBLOOEDGE I say that's worse.
@@RyugaIrving I agree, I prefer her looking wholesome while being murderous and bloodthirsty
Her compendium might also referring to the tale of a Scandinavian girl named alice, who died after demons made her go mad, and would 'make friends' with village children to kill them so they don't leave her
I've had folks tell me this, but I personally have never actually seen or read the story myself. Like I wasn't able to find any sources of it being a real story. Even if you Google "Scandinavian Alice Story" the top five results are a film called Alice from 1988, an option to buy Alice in Wonderland in Swedish, the IMDB page for the 1988 Alice film, a Megami Tensei blog talking about that story, and the Megami Tensei wiki talking about that story.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I definitely didn't find any real sources on it in my own research, which I will fully admit is not perfect.
There's been a sort of Mandela effect on both the Megaten wiki and Wikipedia regarding this myth's origins that I and another user noticed. While the myth does seem to exist, as obviously it is mentioned by the games, there's nothing supporting the fact that it's Scandinavian.
"Alice is a mountable demon"
I don't like where this is going
And yet, it is probably the most beautiful and pure animation ever.
"Alice is a mountable demon..."
Alarm!
"She holds the players hand and they walk around merrily"
False alarm
It's a very cute animation.
Im not sure which I like more:
The Alice holding your hand and skipping merrily along, or Cu Chulainn carrying you Bridal Style.
@@TORchic1 SMT straddles that line between deathly serious and the stupidest shit you've ever seen very well, doesn't it?
@@Rellik165 pretty much, a lot of elitist like to pretend SMT is always serious, but that's a lie.
4:03 Hard no. Alice's more prominent and "innocent" looking design works better as showing off her demonic creepiness. She's a demon and everyone knows it as much. Making her look /just/ normal enough can tilt your uncanny valley senses that something definitely feels off about her. Her off-shoot designs are too on the nose and just makes her look exactly like any other MegaTen demon.
Her side profile official art by kazuma kaneko is perfection and I don't agree bringing back her older designs. The recent art is perfect that it shows a simple figure of a child, but look closer at her icy skin and golden eyes maliciously staring and you can tell that this girl is a formidable demon that always gets what she wants.
Honestly, the more subdued, "porcelain doll" is the best design take for me. It has a much more sinister and uncanny creepiness that the other two are just too obvious and on the nose about. It also fits the uncomfortable narrative of Alice's ambiguous origins. This take is a static, clean design that gets the message across of being something feeling familiar at first glance, but also just unnerving enough to let you know she's definitely not human. In fact I always thought that that design was way more intimidating than the other two, and was my absolute fave. It's just so perfectly fitting for that strange, alien, and somewhat uncomfortable feeling that all the novel iterations of Alice in Wonderland always gave me even up until now from since I was a kid. The design works for me because it depicts this little girl that is perfectly "normal" and "innocent" in every conventional way--except that she's obviously not.
No joke, the moment Alice said "Mister..." my heart skipped a beat and THEN SOME!!!
So this is when death came
Top tier demon. Endgame potential, high magic and great skillset makes her my favorite demon especially in Strange Journey.
I've seen some people in Re:Imagine (the free fan-run server of the MMO) who have an Alice so strong that she can just AOE one-shot even some of the hardest dungeon runs and bosses. Seriously, there have been times that by the time I'm even able to enter the boss room, the boss is already dead by the time I get there because that Alice killed it already. And while I certainly plan to get and use an Alice (the MMO has multiple versions of her, but only one of them has access to her signature "Die For Me?" skill, and *THAT* version of Alice requires you to first defeat the Boss version of her just to have a small chance of giving you the item that unlocks her as a fusion option) at some point, but it won't be on my "main" character, as that character is Law alignment, and Alice (as a Fiend) is Neutral alignment, so for me to summon and use her on that character would burn through my Magnetite reserves way too fast (Magnetite is a type of farmable "currency" that is used primarily for summoning your demons).
I actually think the fact that SMT9's Alice looks like an ordinary innocent girl is a design strength.
It reminds me of BB Hood where her design strength is that she looks like Red Riding Hood- an innocent-looking girl amidst a bunch of Darkstalkers and semi-Humans.
I agree, but BB Hood will always be my bae and eventual character to voice for Darkstalkers 4/Vampire 4!
There are a few corrections and tidbits to make here:
1: In SMT2 and if, that whole thing with fighting her by opening a gold chest I think is something they added in the remakes to make her stand out. In the original, she's fought just like any other Fiend: A 1/256 chance when stepping on certain tiles littered throughout the game. I know this because I actually fought her through blind luck once in 2 - compared to SMT1, there are a lot more Fiend tiles, but I digress.
2: Remember how I said Alice was given more prominence in the remakes of 2 and if? Another way they did this was by giving her her own boss theme, which is loosely based on the Fiend theme (which actually debuted in the PS1 remake of 1 and reused for 2 and if, which all predate Nocturne Maniax), but otherwise is its own thing. I believe Imagine remixed this song as well.
3: The if remake has the distinction of being the only game where you can actually die for Alice beyond just dying in a boss fight. On a full moon, Alice can show up on the third floor of Karukozaka High School and ask for either the protagonist or their partner to play with her and, ultimately, die for her. If this is accepted, said character will die and get a new Guardian, which is a nice QoL change since in the original, you had to actually go out of your way to die in a dungeon to get new Guardians.
4: That reward for the One Girl's Happiness case file, the Staff of Death? It's actually a reference to SMT2, where the Fiends, Alice included, all had a 1/256 chance of dropping an ultimate weapon, which were all called the X Staff or Staff of X. Alice's was called the Shiki Staff/Staff of Shiki, which...I think can translate to death? I don't know Japanese, so if someone can confirm or deny this for me that would be great, but regardless, the fact that it's a Staff alone makes it a solid reference. (And as a random aside, Apocalypse would make this reference again with Matador having a rare chance to drop his Phasing Staff, along with David being able to drop his Stradivarius from SMT1 and Trumpeter dropping the Angel's Trumpet that Pale Rider can drop in 1.)
I love Alice in Wonderland, and of course she's one of my favorite demon in the series
Very cool that you mentioned American Mcgee's Alice
Madness Returns is one my favorites games ever
Your demonic compendium videos are awesome! Thanks!
Agreed I freaking love this video series
Hey I'm gonna call it now and say Alice is going to eventually be a velvet room attendant.
Alice is one of my favorite demons in the series and I love the little in-game lore with her, Nebiros, and Belial forming a (somewhat scary) family. C:
Thanks for the Video, dude.
Also, F for Strain42. Hope the Underworld is alright for you.
What's you uh... impression of Belial, Nebiros, and Alice? A cute family of the death arcana?
Gamba EJ more like death, hermit, and devil, but I guess so
Alice: Die for me
Spy: Heavy is dead
FINALLY 😁 oh how I’ve been waiting for this one 🥰 Alice is my girl ❤️
This may sound weird, but she’s my girl ❤️❤️❤️
@@DuoBeard she’s adorable af 🥰❤️ she’s also helped me out so much in these games plus I am a huge Alice in wonderland fan
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@strain42 I did it was an amazing video 😁
Well, I always liked Alice's monster form! It was kinda cute... I know I'm weird...
you really proud of this one, huh? I bet its gonna be good!
In Persona 5 and Persona 5 Royal... she technically is the mascot for the Maid Cafe in Akihabara. If you look at the board outside it has a silhouette of her with maid attire and the cafe is called "Alice's Apron"
Alice the mega death loli. I find her porcelain skin-straight hair desigh to be creepier than her other counterparts. She seems more ominous and otherworldly.
This is a very interesting video! did't know she had such a intense role in both series.
4:18 "Die for me ohohohohohoho" she says as she covers her mouth with one hand.
Spoiler for the video, but
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Man, I actually got jumpscared at the end there 😭 the way she just popped on the screen was CRAZY lmao
7:22 thats adorable
Amazing work my dude!! Really great!!
Nailed that one John
Alice is my absolute favorite demon. So bummed she isn’t in Nocturne
I demand my clever alliteration
"The Wonderful Wonderland Wanderer that Whoops, I'm Dead!"
Honestly I love the demon Alice's design, it seems cute to a young kid but when you see the Die for Me spell, you immediately become scared of the demon...
😄
Honestly, I would love to see you cover The Hare Of Inaba Someday.
It is a fun tale and I'd be happy to cover it. I'm just waiting for it to have a bit more to do in the franchise first. See if it pops up in SMTV or something.
@@strain42 sadly it didn’t
Aww, yeah!
This is happening!
Alongside Demonee-Ho (I loved Strange Journey), Alice will forever be one of my all time favorite demons. I had her as a mount on SMT Imagine. I loved her so much
Alice was acctually inspired on urban legend a Aryan girl you died young under mysterious circumstances
It's funny how a little british girl is part of the demonic race almost exclusive to skeletons and characters from the apocalypse (and a giant ship engine with legs but let's ignore that...)
interestingly enough even though theres an alice boss in scramble/strikers the iconic demon alice is still summonable in that game and shes one of teh few demons with a unique showtime attack being her die for me attack, also recently found out her regular non showtime die for me attack can still kill even mini bosses on merciless difficulty which can save tons of time if you lucky
Die for Me has a really cool animation in SMTV utilizing red and black cards and a dark megidoloan blast.
I LOVED using her as one of my main demons against Abdiel.
Shes having a hell of a time in wonderland lol
when i hacked persona q i decided to give myself alice as a persona
my logic was that since SHE can traverse the wonderland so easily i could too
yeah i didnt cheat after that
I like Alice's current design mainly because Akira / Ren / Joker used her to fight Shido in the anime. One of the only good parts of that anime tbh. And the funny thing is that Shido thought it was a weak persona but was clearly caught in a LAST SURPRISE.
You should definitely make a video about the hair of Inaba! I mean... It got a whole ass town named after it
Gotta love it when demons from the underworld take the form of creepy looking deadish looking kids. 😅😅😅
It wouldn't be Megami Tensei without Alice's Adventures in Wonderland used constantly. She'll always be my daughter, and the scene from P3/P4 routes during You in Wonderland where the characters are shrunken will be funny as shit after nearly a decade since PQ released.
yes, alice
Damnit strain, let me see my daughter
Oh... I hope Strains companion demon has a resurrection spell at hand.
Ha! You can mount Alice you say~
HOW DID THIS GET PAST MY RADAR!?
Best ending
Ladies and gentlemen beware of Alice the lethal loli, because she is adorable nightmare fuel. You will either say dawwwwww or ahhhhhhhh! before you die.
Coco as Alice in CTR: NF:
I'm to joke to you ?
It scares me that Teddie rocks that Alice outfit too well.
"I'd hit it" - Random Guy
If I had a nickel for everytime a little girl called Alice tried to kill me in a RPG, I would have 2 nickels, which isn't much, but it is weird it happened twice.
The Horror style Game
Alice and Alice: Madness Returned
The doctor called "Mr Bumby"
Is a Stand in of the Author of Alice in Wonderland
While I don't believe that Lewis Carol was actually... "Into" little girls, a lot of things are explainable with how peculiar victorian england was. It wasn't just him who was interested in little girls, it was literally everybody. British people of the era had some really strange worldviews, for example how owning a cat is noble because it "Demonstrates man's domination over nature". From what I know about Carol, or as he was really called Charles Dodgson was... a weird man, for sure. But not in a creepy way, he was very much a child at heart and were he living today, he would most likely work as a child entertainer. Seemed to have been a good friend and people asked about him had mostly positive things to say
I'm more questioning of why Japanese people seem to keep gravitating to Alice in Wonderland being this creepy dark victorian setting, rather than goofy absurdism filled with injokes
Why is it that we have a lot of pervert writers in history? heck, I bet someone writing on the bible was a pervert too.
BUT WHY?!
Someone once told me "Just remember, a lot of great art is made by shi**y people." and...yeah.
We don't know if he was pervert dude, it sounds creepy but for all we know, he was totally innocent
@@toooydoeur All right, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
Since I made that comment I have seen the little things and someone sent me that weird video explaining lolicon, so I'll be lenient this time.
Well since strikers is out, are you gonna make a new top 10 best personas?
I eventually want to do a Top 10 Persona 5 Personas, and I'll use that video to provide an update on my old list.
But I also wanna make sure we're like...DONE with Persona 5 first. I don't wanna do that video and then when we get Persona 5 Supreme Baseball or something we're introduced to some new Persona that totally knocks my socks off, y'know?
giten's alice is just disturbing
hell yea
Getting there
3 days? Bruh
Lets alice
Still surprising to this day that this is one of the most powerful demons in the SMT franchise...
Looks are clearly deceiving with this one.
hers hoping she has a big role in Shin Megami Tensei 5
No SMT4 Alice?
Let's Alice
I'm pretty sure that Alice is the only Fiend demon to not be a skeleton.
Not quite. Ghost Q and the Sage of Time from SMT2 aren't skeletal and neither are the two new fiends exclusive to King Abaddon.
@@strain42 the only Fiends I knew were the menorah fiends, Alice and David.
chemtrail isn’t skeletal either
7:20 mountable demon skip merrily :)
Alice? Who the fuck is Alice?
Alice is actually not from the Lewis Carol story, but rather an original creation from SMT1.
Mispronounced belial
Almost every video I do where I mention Belial I pronounce it differently and someone always says its wrong. I’m genuinely convinced there is no right pronunciation at this point.
@@strain42 I mean, there is. Buh-lie-ul
@@toooydoeur Merriam-Webster says otherwise. There are multiple pronunciations because the name comes from a Hebrew word that has no one correct way to say it in English. Heck, there are even some versions where it's spelled/pronounced with a V instead of a B. In Last Bible they called him Vaerial.
@@strain42 ☝️ best way