The other thing is, people wrote about films. So, if we lose the film itself you'll still find descriptions, diary entries, reviews, records of filming permits etc
You are right to doubt it because there are 2 recorded examples in fiction that predate the instance cited in this episode, and both have a damsel on the tracks. But it is likely that all 3 came up with the idea independently of each other, and may have been inspired by actual cases of people getting stuck on railroad tracks. The one cited here was the most popular, though; so it's likely to have been the primary inspiration for the spread of the trope. And you're right that almost certainly it was reused in silent films later, the vast majority of which are long gone and forgotten.
@@philash824 Don't think I could name anything specific given so many different cartoons from different studios had at least one such scene in their shows... :P
I thought there was one in the earliest Mighty Mouse cartoons. A bit of searching turned up in only one cartoon, "A Fight to the Finish", but in that one Mighty Mouse is tied to the tracks! And he can't escape the ropes, but he's strong enough to stop the train! But the "damsel in distress" is in 2 cartoons in the form of a hypnotized girl mouse sitting on a log being sawed down its length at the mill. One of the cartoons is "Svengali's Cat".
I was just wondering about this exact thing the other day (thanks to some reruns of the old Dudley Do-Right cartoons) and I suspected it was a case of the parodies amplifying the trope, because I'd realized I'd never seen it outside of a comedic reference.
I recall Dudley Do-Right saving many damsels in distress who were tied to railroad tracks by dastardly Snidley Whiplash. But then, that's been a while and in the land of toons.
There's an episode of The Avengers, Emma Peel (Dianna Rig) is tied to a miniature railway line only to be rescued by, I think, John Steed. One of those images which remains in your head for ever.
Dame (the female equivalent of a knighthood) DIANA RIGG,if you please. You can keep Iron Man & Co. Our Avengers were better! I'm joking, of course. Patrick Macnee and Honor Blackman/Diana Rigg/ Linda Thorson/Joanna Lumley were MUCH better !
AFAIK one of the earliest film appearances of the cliche was Barney Oldfield's Race For a Life from 1913. I only know about it because Barney was one of the biggest names in early motorsport, and he wasn't shy about leveraging his fame.
@@peterclarke7240that sort of muddies the waters. To disqualify a silent movie of the period because it references other movies does not seem legitimate. If there were no actual non-spoofing uses of the gag, then Oldfield’s movie is an actual use of the gag and counts.
@@Pocketfarmer1 No. Watch the video again. Sandi says the only early silent films that reference the cliche are ones that were poking fun at it, which is what "Race for Life" did.
@ she makes a self defeating argument. There are comedies of the period that use the gag but QI has deemed them some how illegitimate because of those films are silent and of the period. How can you tell from a silent film that they are poking fun at something and not just being funny? The comedies used a well known gag they by default become the legitimate uses of the gag in period. “Do you remember … “ the gag”… from silent movies . Yes gets the klackson . But there were silent films that had it. They don’t count because I say so , therefore you can’t remember them. Yet there are silent movies with the gag. QI did not qualify which type of silent movies at the start. This is the fallacy of moving the goalposts.
@@Pocketfarmer1 You're completely failing to understand what she said. She said the only examples of this classic cliche in silent films is in the comedies that spoof it. This is not a self-defeating argument, it'd be like if the film Airplane spoofed never actually existed except in the popular conscience. The argument is that the cliche of the damsel tied to a railway track never actually existed EXCEPT as a spoof, but we all have it stuck in our heads as having happened, even though it never did.
It's funny how we, as a species, can do this; convince ourselves that something that didn't happen ,did, or that something was said, hasn't been. The most cited one of the latter is Star Trek's Captain Kirk's iconic phrase, "Beam me up, Scotty." In fact, he never said those words in that order, he did say "Scotty, beam me up," and even then, only the once. Yet if you ask anyone with a modicum of knowledge about Star Trek the Old Series, and they'll probably tell you "Beam me up Scotty" was his catch-phrase!
Not even quite that. The actual lines were "Scotty, beam us up," "Beam me up," and "Mr. Scott, beam us up." In the Animated Series, he said "Beam us up, Scotty." It wasn't until ST4 that he said "Scotty, beam me up," and in ST7 he said "Beam them out of there, Scotty." There were other similar lines throughout the series referring to "beaming" people or things to or from places or even "up." And it was always Scott at the transporter controls. So it's a plausible line, just a slight variation on the things actually said.
I'm pretty sure it was. There were tons of silent movies with this exact gag, which came from theater. This segment was really strange. What needed better explanation was that this was not found in contemporary melodramas, only comedies, and that it was a reversal of the earlier version in London theaters (with the woman saving the man).
Don't be ridiculous! Obviously as close to an objective documentary as there's ever been - that the silent movies didn't picture it was because back in the day people couldn't handle true depictions of such vile and villainous behaviour...
Basically it was two men in a scuffle, the hero lost and his love interest saved him at the last minute so he could fight another day. It's a classic trope that's sadly been forgotten in favour of the reverse scenario 😅.
The Keystone silent comedy "Teddy at the throttle" from 1917 with Gloria Swanson does definitely feature this cliche: th-cam.com/video/0nAyZZg4L70/w-d-xo.html
@aubreyleahy5358 - I don't disagree with you about pollution being a huge issue, but I think you're crowbarring the topic into the comments of a comedy clip that has nothing to do with it.
I know right!? There's never enough around when you need it. Just the other day I wanted to buy 25,000 plastic cups to feed to dolphins and the shop only had 500 in stock. In the end I had to use cable ties, dipped in super glue and broken glass. When will manufacturers pull their finger out and increase production to meet demand.
Not that I doubt the claim, but considering atleast around 70% of all silent movies have been lost to time, it's a lot harder to really be certain.
The original question works regardless because if the movies were lost to time then YOU don't remember the trope from then
Technically correct. Which is the best kind of correct. 👍
The other thing is, people wrote about films. So, if we lose the film itself you'll still find descriptions, diary entries, reviews, records of filming permits etc
You are right to doubt it because there are 2 recorded examples in fiction that predate the instance cited in this episode, and both have a damsel on the tracks. But it is likely that all 3 came up with the idea independently of each other, and may have been inspired by actual cases of people getting stuck on railroad tracks.
The one cited here was the most popular, though; so it's likely to have been the primary inspiration for the spread of the trope. And you're right that almost certainly it was reused in silent films later, the vast majority of which are long gone and forgotten.
@@theomegajuice8660maybe not, because the people who spread the meme (to use modern terms) may have actually seen it back then.
I've only ever seen it as a cliché in cartoons... :P
The Perils of Penelope Pitstop?
@@philash824 Don't think I could name anything specific given so many different cartoons from different studios had at least one such scene in their shows... :P
@@philash824 The beginning of every Dudley Do-Right cartoon.
I thought there was one in the earliest Mighty Mouse cartoons. A bit of searching turned up in only one cartoon, "A Fight to the Finish", but in that one Mighty Mouse is tied to the tracks! And he can't escape the ropes, but he's strong enough to stop the train!
But the "damsel in distress" is in 2 cartoons in the form of a hypnotized girl mouse sitting on a log being sawed down its length at the mill. One of the cartoons is "Svengali's Cat".
@@JimC Now then,surprise me. Who can tell me who Svengali is/was ?
I was just wondering about this exact thing the other day (thanks to some reruns of the old Dudley Do-Right cartoons) and I suspected it was a case of the parodies amplifying the trope, because I'd realized I'd never seen it outside of a comedic reference.
Next you'll be telling me that Nelson Mandela was never in a silent film!
;-)
He was effective, we all believed it! 😁
And then....Along came Jones
Long lanky Jones
Slow talkin' Jones
@@PsuedonymousPatron Slow walkin' Jones (switch these lines 😁)
th-cam.com/video/-yYQ8CwZ1k8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0qyjR7bjjgufaLdZ
I recall Dudley Do-Right saving many damsels in distress who were tied to railroad tracks by dastardly Snidley Whiplash. But then, that's been a while and in the land of toons.
Sidenote :do you remember the name of Dudley Doright‘s horse?
@@taxesdeathandtrouble.1886 Wow, that was a difficult question! Now I know, but I did have to ask all-knowing google: "Horse".
There's an episode of The Avengers, Emma Peel (Dianna Rig) is tied to a miniature railway line only to be rescued by, I think, John Steed. One of those images which remains in your head for ever.
Dame (the female equivalent of a knighthood) DIANA RIGG,if you please. You can keep Iron Man & Co. Our Avengers were better! I'm joking, of course. Patrick Macnee and Honor Blackman/Diana Rigg/ Linda Thorson/Joanna Lumley were MUCH better !
@@ripdbtpoo1441 When I first heard there was going to be an Avengers movie I was so disappointed it wasn't Steed and Peel!
To be fair, most images of the wonderful Diana Rigg remain in my head forever.
I'm not.
Thank you.
It was part of most episodes of Dudley Do-Right of the Mounties.
Not a silent movie!
@@AndrewTBP I know. I wasn't saying it was, merely that this is where I and others first heard of it.
Oh, I was in a production of Under the Gaslight! I played the character named Old Judas, who was a villain with Byke (that Sandi mentioned).
AFAIK one of the earliest film appearances of the cliche was Barney Oldfield's Race For a Life from 1913. I only know about it because Barney was one of the biggest names in early motorsport, and he wasn't shy about leveraging his fame.
Yep, but that was a comedy that was spoofing the cliche.
@@peterclarke7240that sort of muddies the waters. To disqualify a silent movie of the period because it references other movies does not seem legitimate. If there were no actual non-spoofing uses of the gag, then Oldfield’s movie is an actual use of the gag and counts.
@@Pocketfarmer1 No. Watch the video again. Sandi says the only early silent films that reference the cliche are ones that were poking fun at it, which is what "Race for Life" did.
@ she makes a self defeating argument. There are comedies of the period that use the gag but QI has deemed them some how illegitimate because of those films are silent and of the period. How can you tell from a silent film that they are poking fun at something and not just being funny? The comedies used a well known gag they by default become the legitimate uses of the gag in period. “Do you remember … “ the gag”… from silent movies . Yes gets the klackson . But there were silent films that had it. They don’t count because I say so , therefore you can’t remember them. Yet there are silent movies with the gag. QI did not qualify which type of silent movies at the start. This is the fallacy of moving the goalposts.
@@Pocketfarmer1 You're completely failing to understand what she said.
She said the only examples of this classic cliche in silent films is in the comedies that spoof it. This is not a self-defeating argument, it'd be like if the film Airplane spoofed never actually existed except in the popular conscience.
The argument is that the cliche of the damsel tied to a railway track never actually existed EXCEPT as a spoof, but we all have it stuck in our heads as having happened, even though it never did.
I vaguely remember the compilation film "When laughter was king" had such an incident, but am not 100 percent sure.
Certainly in cartoons, was sure seeing some on the telly as a nipper in the 70’s while watching old westerns etc on the weekends.
Dudley Do-Right
Dick Dastardly (and Muttley)
It's funny how we, as a species, can do this; convince ourselves that something that didn't happen ,did, or that something was said, hasn't been. The most cited one of the latter is Star Trek's Captain Kirk's iconic phrase, "Beam me up, Scotty." In fact, he never said those words in that order, he did say "Scotty, beam me up," and even then, only the once. Yet if you ask anyone with a modicum of knowledge about Star Trek the Old Series, and they'll probably tell you "Beam me up Scotty" was his catch-phrase!
Not even quite that. The actual lines were "Scotty, beam us up," "Beam me up," and "Mr. Scott, beam us up." In the Animated Series, he said "Beam us up, Scotty." It wasn't until ST4 that he said "Scotty, beam me up," and in ST7 he said "Beam them out of there, Scotty."
There were other similar lines throughout the series referring to "beaming" people or things to or from places or even "up." And it was always Scott at the transporter controls. So it's a plausible line, just a slight variation on the things actually said.
Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni.
@@EebstertheGreat ST7 does not exist. 😅
@@auturgicflosculator2183 I am talking about Generations, but I'm fine if that movie doesn't exist.
@@EebstertheGreat Exactly, heh.
It happened in Dudley Do-right cartoons, part of Bullwinkle and Rocky Show.
Not a silent movie!
Dis dress, dat dress.. Dey all look pretty good on 'er.
Well I never.... I always thougt that it was one of the Buster Keaton movies..
I'm pretty sure it was. There were tons of silent movies with this exact gag, which came from theater. This segment was really strange. What needed better explanation was that this was not found in contemporary melodramas, only comedies, and that it was a reversal of the earlier version in London theaters (with the woman saving the man).
I always assumed Disney or someone came up with it for their cartoons, cause it was in every single cartoon at some point!
So Dudley Do-Right was . . . a LIE!?!
Don't be ridiculous! Obviously as close to an objective documentary as there's ever been - that the silent movies didn't picture it was because back in the day people couldn't handle true depictions of such vile and villainous behaviour...
This is a dark day for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Basically it was two men in a scuffle, the hero lost and his love interest saved him at the last minute so he could fight another day.
It's a classic trope that's sadly been forgotten in favour of the reverse scenario 😅.
There anything that's not a lie?
Does that mean I have to go and untie her now?
The Keystone silent comedy "Teddy at the throttle" from 1917 with Gloria Swanson does definitely feature this cliche: th-cam.com/video/0nAyZZg4L70/w-d-xo.html
Another example is another Keystone comedy: 1913's "Barney Oldfield's Race for a Life" with Mabel Normand. th-cam.com/video/CE8cIw_HygM/w-d-xo.html
You mean Looney Tunes lied to me?
What about tied to a log at the sawmill?
th-cam.com/video/-yYQ8CwZ1k8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cyYBTUd2URMoGfJA
Aisling Bea is one of the most BEAUTIFUL women EVER
She is quite adorable.
she is
I don't see it
@@Lance-Stroll Not all of it is visible~
@@Lance-Stroll ok
It's like the Mandela Effect. Sociology is interesting.
I heard - from an utterly reliable source - that in a little known country on the reverse side of the map - something is the case
You been following Elon on social media again?
makes one's ears bleed
Speaking of obscene amounts...What about the obscene amount of single use plastic/cardboard?
@aubreyleahy5358 - I don't disagree with you about pollution being a huge issue, but I think you're crowbarring the topic into the comments of a comedy clip that has nothing to do with it.
I know right!? There's never enough around when you need it.
Just the other day I wanted to buy 25,000 plastic cups to feed to dolphins and the shop only had 500 in stock. In the end I had to use cable ties, dipped in super glue and broken glass.
When will manufacturers pull their finger out and increase production to meet demand.