On the bit about togas being off colour white. The romans did know how to bleach cloth but early in the republic they passed a law banning bleached togas when standing for office. It was considered unfair to the plebeians who couldn’t afford them.
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 Probably a result of the Conflict of the Orders. Unfortunately we don't know too much about that period compared to the civil wars of the late republic so it doesn't get as much attention.
Cato's garment shows the benefits of historical accuracy. Because the show's designers cared about Rome's fashion, they could convey Cato's personality through his raiments. Details such as this, whether realistic or fictional, make the setting feel real.
Fun fact: the reason vambraces and wristguards are so popular in Hollywood depictions of Romans especially but ancient/medieval people more generally is because of watches. Way back in ye olden days, before mobile phones, most men wore a watch to tell the time or potentially show off their wealth - including actors in the 60's, one of cinema's 'golden ages', when a lot of historical epics were made. To stop their (potentially expensive) watches being taken off and stolen, or just to let them tell the time at a moment's notice, the actors got given vambraces to hide their watches. Though obviously far fewer people are sporting watches these days, or at least enough that they won't take them off, by this point it's now something audiences expect, because it's codified so heavily in the language of cinema.
@@RomabooRamblings It might also have been that, it's been a long time since the trivia was inserted into my brain. I know it was because of watches though!
I always loved the little details that made it feel like a living city, like slaves in the background sweeping away flower petals after a triumph. I think that's where the show shone most, because it made the world feel like more than just a backdrop for the main characters.
I just did a rewatch and got to appreciate these details so much more! I swear there’s an entire separate -silent- comedic series going on in the background, by Attia’s old lady slave 😂 she’s always up to something ridiculous in the shadows
I was devastated to learn this when I first heard about the show. 2 seasons of trying to squeeze the Gallic Wars & the rise of Augustus was too much for a season with 10 episodes
Really appreciated the accurate way roman uniforms and clothes were depicted in "HBO's Rome". I hate how, in most movies and even docudramas set in the Ancient Era, the armors Romans wear are always the same models, no matter if the movie is set during Julius Caesar's campaigns or during the invasions of Attila the Hun. For those of you who don't know, Roman armors evolved as the empire fell apart, as they began to wear a scale-covered chainmail and a different helmet (which would eventually become the medieval armor) than the classic uniform we all know. I can understand that many of these productions were low budget and had to reuse uniforms from other products about Ancient Rome (being the sword-and-sandal movies of the 60s and the Italian miniseries of the 2000s good examples of that), but there are also high-budget productions like the movie "Agora", in which the soldiers wear completely anachronistic armor, which is simply inexcusable. At least we have the BBC productions (like "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" and "Heroes and Villains: Attila") and the "Total War" games, which accurately depict roman armies during the last years of the Empire
Yeah I don’t think people realize that the classic Lorica Segmentata every associated with the Roman’s were only in use for around 2 centuries which admittedly is a long time, but not nearly as long as Rome’s existence. It also helps that it happened to be the standard Roman set of armor when Rome was at its peak.
One reason why I rarely watch ‘documentary shows’ these days. It looks fake, it looks like Hollywood clothing. There is this netflix show about caesar with some young good looking actor with a full beard played him and I just had to stop watching. It was too silly and off putting
As a Viking age reenactor it's hard to find media that portrays the period I'm interested in with nearly as much accuracy as Rome portrays Rome, it is nice to see when a proper effort has been made. It definitely felt like a real world to watch that show whereas shows like Vikings just can't sustain my suspension of disbelief.
Yeah it’s kinda weird. The Anglo Saxon/Viking Age is one of the worst offended time periods when it comes to costume design. Most shows have these 9th century Europeans dressed no better than cavemen from 30,000 BC. A lot of shows depict people covered in dirt and crap wearing tattered brown skins. The tv show Vikings isn’t bad but it has issues. It used too much leather in battle scenes and the helmets for the Westseaxna were very anachronistic. Though I do love the outfits King Horik and King Harald and King Ecgbert wear when they’re not in armor. AC Valhalla is kind of the same. The Norse and Anglo Saxon NPCs are dressed very very well. But Eivor only has a few realistic looking armor sets. I wish I could dress Eivor in a colorful Anglo Saxon wrap coat with no armor, fit for a wealthy land owner during his time. That would look awesome
3:39 *Fun fact:* The actor who plays Cato in the show, Karl Johnson, also appeared in the episode from the BBC docuseries "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" focused on the Civil War between Pompey and Julius Caesar. Although Cato appears in said episode, Johnson does not play him, being Marcellus the character played by the famous actor. It is a pity that he did not play the famous Cato again for said docuseries, to be honest
I guess it's a given because Johnson's Cato in looks alone is nothing like the real Cato. Mainly because Johnson looks like a 75 year old Cato while Cato in reality was in his mid 40's. I shall loved him as Cato though
I love Rome because it was clearly made by nerds. I know that a lot of Roman history buffs fuss a lot about Roman armor. A lot of them make a point of how TV shows and movies put all soldiers in lorica segmentata no matter the time period.
Great video! Also: The way they cut the fabrics is well done. Almost always, Roman clothes are depicted with perfectly straight edges, like modern clothes have, this is especially true of the togas. But this is only possible with very sharp scissors or modern textile machinery. In the Rome HBO show, the clothes, including the togas, have a rough edge to them. The Romans would be cutting fabrics with small blades and shears, the cut wouldn't be perfectly clean, so this is very accurate. Furthermore, the Roman togas aren't shown to be fluorescent white like most togas in other media, the Romans could bleach clothes, but they couldn't produce the brilliant stark whites that we can produce with modern dyes, so at best, you'd get a slightly off white colour, like a dull white. Also, the Romans did not have press irons, so clothes, especially linen, would crease A LOT, so the HBO show correctly shows the Roman clothes to be quite creased, instead of the ironed togas we usually see on screen.
The metatron addresses the armband in modern depictions of rome in one of his videos, basically in the 90s wrist watches were popular so to cover up the tan outline on actors they would wear armbands and for some reason the trend stuck in media
The narrator's point that the show,regardless of inaccuracies, is still a better depiction of ancient Rome than others of the genre. No expert,but I tend to agree.This series was excellent.
There's evidence that pompey liked to style himself after Alexander the great, particularly his hair. I guess it's not too much extrapolation to think that he cared a lot about his appearance, thus being more fashion forward lol. I liked it, thought it added to the portrayal.
My guess on the reason of Pompey's extravigent clothing was because of his reputation as a friend and conqueror of eastern nations, he spent so much time there he would have seen higher class fashion and might have adopted it for his non-official life
Here is some more backstage movie production stuff that explains a lot of what you see in films. The REAL reason period pieces use thick bracelets and vambraces and such is because they have to break up all of the uniform color on the arms of the actors. Especially in the old days when everyone was very caucasian. Too much of the same color oversaturates the film and really stands out on screen. It is not as bad with darker skin tones, but you still have to break up that sameness of color. The is especially true in those bedroom scenes he was talking about. Too much white skin throws the color balance off, so you have to add some bling, preferable something dark like leather. That is also the reason you don't see a great deal of short sleeve shirts, and if you do, they are often adjusted to have the arms a little longer (Arnold Schwarzenegger notwithstanding - but he always tried to keep a nice tan - his tight, short sleeve shirts made his arm muscles pop on screen) There are two HUGE rules to being an extra on a movie set. No light greens or blues on your clothing. Those are greenscreen colors and they play hell with the software they use in post-production to make colors more crisp and "movie-like". Also never ever never ever wear white of any kind anywhere on your clothing, especially on your shoes. White washes out with film and pixelates the hell out of digital recording. Movie sets are actually pretty dingy. The white robes Lucius was wearing in the above clips were really more the color of weak tea or light coffee on set. Actually they use tea to dye the whites. You have to look around at the entire shot to make sure there is no white in the camera angle. The camera director will kick you out for wearing white.
Thank you for mentioning budgetary constraints. I find it tedious regarding the number of people that get so up in arms about "Historically Accurate Armor" and every little detail. I've working the entertainment industry, and let me ask you this: Do you actually want a second season or not? If production spends tens of thousands of dollars on every piece of armor for dozens if not hundreds of warriors, then I can guarantee there will NOT be a second season because they went broke. Historical stuff costs A LOT of money to produce anyway because you have to build and design from scratch. Horses ain't cheap either. . Helmets are an issue because you can't see the actor's face. On screen, that makes it incredibly difficult to follow the story even if they are otherwise adorned to a specific character with sigils or colors or banners or something. You would be surprised how quickly an audience can lose the pace of the story trying to figure out who is who. It also makes it hard to understand the dialog. People read lips and expressions more than they think they do, especially for small emotional or nuanced actions. . I.E. - Get over yourself people. It's a movie. It's just a story, and not everyone gets Ben Hur or Avengers level pre-production funding. Folks are doing the best they can.
Another excellent video! Thank you for your hard work to help educate us! I've watched Rome several times and never noticed the eagle on the chest of the soldiers.
I just finished the series and was hoping someone made videos on historical accuracy. It is great to learn about the details, but I would also be interested to learn more about the historical events, the characters and what we know happened or was made up for the sake of the narrative. Hope you make more videos like this ❤
@@loona7126 hello. It's been my plan to make a series of videos on the characters, eventa and other details of each episode for the show's 20th anniversary. Looks like we think alike
They first came to Roman notice at the battle of Adrianople where the legions were cut to pieces by barbarian cavalry with spurs. The emperor Valens was killed,and the victorious Goths became a major power.
Leather equipment would not necessarily be preserved/discernible in the archaeological record, at first I found it difficult to imagine Caesar on campaign in leather, but it would be lighter-weight…perhaps literary sources or iconographic evidence could shed light on it’s potential existence and prevalence…
A great assessment- & I agree on virtually everything - I rather suspect Pompey being a little bit of a fashion-plate, is an homage to his enormous wealth, borne of his youthful adventures, & time in the East- when he made bank, being an ally of Sulla- & later on, where he was wrecking pirates & adjudicating Eastern disputes on Rome's behalf - the show referenced briefly his connection to the Ptolemaic Royal family, & intimates why Caesar would have been perceived as the underdog, not him; he'd made connections in the wealthy Eastern provinces & client-kingdoms, like Egypt- he aimed to leverage his authority, on his old stomping grounds- only problem was, he was well past his glory days... The only thing I'd really mark *Rome* down on, costume-wise - & that is how the Ptolemaic Court is depicted; I know their excuse was 'it's showing the Roman bias/ we're seeing that "alien" world through _their_ eyes' - but honestly, that feels like a cop-out- to go with repeated stylistic cliches that are really old hat by this point - we *have* artefacts of the era- jewelry & patterns, coins, statues, & frescoes to work from- that could have given a fresh look to the time & place. Alexandrian fashions & jewelry for the elite would largely owe more to the delicate Hellenistic (later Greek) styles, with Persian/ Eastern touches, here & there - hairstyles could have been modeled on the statues & coins, the frescoes & mosaics... but nope, just put them in things that are positively old-fashioned, if not downright archaic- or even fantastical - *_how_* does it make sense for people closer to us than the pyramids, to dress in clothes, jewels, hairstyles, & makeup some 1200 years out of date? I had the same complaint for that migraine-inducing 'Cleopatra' _"documentary"_ on Netflix - Ancient Egyptian fashion was by no means static, but its' innovations came at a slower pace in comparison to some of their other developments, because- newsflash: pre-industrial era, clothing took **a lot** of time, effort, & resources to make- no matter what the rank involved. *_However_* that doesn't mean they'd be wearing what Hatshepsut & Rameses II would have - Egyptian history was *_well past_* its' New Kingdom glory days, so familiar in pop-culture, hell- it was well past the Late Period, when the last of the native rulers held power... Edit: word
I think I recall, somewhere in the DVD commentaries, a discussion about how the Egyptian costumes and makeup were deliberately made outlandishly stylized - not like the Roman's outfits, which were mostly accurate if a little heightened, the Egyptians were supposed to look freakish and alien, to convey how most Romans would have seen Egyptians at the time.
@@anneboyd7811 Egypt was hellenized at that time. Actually, people would not differ so much as far as clothes are concerned, at least, the upper classes. The city of Alexandria was totally hellenized since Ptolemy, the general of Alexander the Great, established his own kingdom there some 200 years earlier prior to Cleopatra times. The freakish hairstyles apply to Egypt, but some 1500 years earlier. Producers however decided to "reinvent" Egyptian fashion to differ the Roman set from Egyptian set.
Ironically probably the most difficult eras to make accurate films about are the most recent times - if you were to make a movie that involved happenings of 20 years ago it would be very difficult to get things right - the models of cars on the streets for example, the style of mobile phones and computers, subtle changes in fashions and that sort of thing -that's if you want to be totally authentic!
One of my favourite aspects about Rome was how the clothing looked both time appropriate and comfortable to wear- especially in a hot and humid italy without air condition. Besides some people wearing purple (big no no in Rome or any period pre synthesized colors) it still looks gorgeous!
I wonder if it was still necessary to hide the wrist of the actors in the 2000s, I remember that in the 90s everyone still used wristwatches and had the marks on their wrists, but I wonder if that was still the case in the middle 2000s.
I very much love how the roman legionaire are depicted. The use of accurate Lorica Hamata and keeping in formation while fighting. I will give a pass on the helmet, not the accurate Monte helm but close enough for the casual audience, though I would love to see some early gallic helmet and the Legionaire helmets should have been richly decorated with feather. The shield is the only problem I have, too small and too square in design.
Thank you for pronouncing classical Latin correctly. My only 'nit pick' as you would say is that the 'ae' diphthong was almost certainly pronounced as "EE" and likely not as "AY". To know for sure we need a time machine, but most experts agree, Caesar would very likely have sounded like "KEEZAR" to our modern ears.
For the stirrups, it's interesting to know there was a legal reason they had to include them. I did notice while watching the show that they often tried to make the stirrups less visible in shots (they're there, but they're never hanging out obviously the way we usually see). The show even had some scenes where characters mount their horse by stepping on an underling's back, rather than using the stirrups. It seems like they did the best they could under the circumstances!
So interesting! What does take me out of the fantasy a bit (as someone with half their family from southern Italy) is just how Anglo most of the main characters look. But that seems to be how English language films and tv shows about Rome are mostly cast. Have you watched the series Domina? I'd love to get your take on the costumes in that.
Yeah, the arm braces are always so amnoying to look at in anything Roman related as it doesn't even look good most of the time. Aside from that, i really enjoyed the set desgin, and their costumes.
I found myself wondering about the accuracy of Niobe's clothing. There was a lot of off the shoulder, exposed arms etc. Wouldn't she have been much more modest? And the veils for the ladies, i wondered if those were accurate
Loved the video, yeah the thing I noticed instantly and bothered me in this show was the arm bracelets, but indeed everything else looks really good. I love this kind of content, keep it coming!
It's "pilum" (one L), not "pillum". I don't know about on-set safety rules... but you can ride without stirrups in some public events (best known is the Palio of Siena: no stirrups... and no saddle altogether). Generally speaking, actors doing most main characters do look very anglo-saxon in their traits, at least to Italian eyes. At least, in this show they seem to have spent some money in having European stand-ins, while in almost all "Roman" dramas produced in northern Europe they usualy get north-African stand-ins, looking quite different from typical Italians.
@@RomabooRamblings Well, the jockeys in the Palio are obviously professionals with huge experience and ability. I don't know if they actually need a license but surely no Contrada would hire an un-experienced jockey 'cause it'd be a racing catastrophy.
I would love to see a video on the remains of Roman emperors. I know most are probably lost but there must be one body left buried in a monastery somewhere.
Is the color palette in depiction for civilian/commoners really off? Yellow and especially Blue were much available in addition to red and white, I think to remember.
HI! I've always wondered about the scene in 3:05 in Rome, Cicero's robe's edges are very rough, same as 3:35 - as if no one really cared when cutting it, however in the background of 3:05 the other senator's togas seem way neater with proper edges. In the "real" Rome, senators would have have properly cut robes right?
Thoughts on the historical accuracy of Clothing of the Gauls in the show? The Gaullish men seem to look like medieval peasants and they also lack mustaches
I tried to research that topic, but can't really make a certain conclusion. There are accounts, for instance, that say that the Gauls had much better equipment than the usual "dirty barbarian" stuff from the show
@@RomabooRamblings I think they even invented the Chainmail that the Roman’s stole. Also their works of jewelry was amazing Edit: Not confirmed that they invented the Chainmail but they are usually credited.
Nobody should be pinning their togas. And overall I think there's a lot more color than would have been seen at the time. At least they mostly spared us the Praetorian helmets, with that piece in the front that's not a visor, despite appearing to be on hinges. I realize they do appear on things like Trajan's column and I don't remember if those ever appeared in the series or not but they're in way too many movies/shows and every time I see them I want to gag!
@@rubz1390 If you look on the map now, the Taklamakan desert is in Western China. It's where Xinjiang province is (and yes, that is where the uighur genocide is happening)
@@RomabooRamblings I wouldn't worry about it too much, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a mixing problem you didn't know about. All I have to do is turn up my volume a bit and its fine.
Going to have to disagree on the "8/10" for the uniforms in this series. While the series itself was pretty good as far as Hollywood is concerned, the uniforms and their presentation are all wrong. I'd give it a "3" or a "5" for authenticity. On the other hand, the civilian attire was much better and truer to the historical record.
Which aspect of the uniform did you think was the least authentic? I may have been a bit too lenient with the uniform, because "finally, some chainmail", but nothing to me was super egregious. A lot of things just lacked a couple of minor changes, like the helmets. At worst, some things are anachronistic by a couple of decades.
Nice video as allways! but I totally disagreed with the armor part, they don't look as Roman late republican Legion, the helmet is totally diferent to the montefortino, and the SHIELD?! Even as a imperial stucum is very bad, also centurión crest is too late for that era, I personally give them a 4/10, the only show that make decent armor at the moment is Barbarian un Netflix, but Is just my opinion, alike, great video!
Thanks. I'm very lenient, because they actually used mail armor, lol. I can't say that the helmet is totally different, with a few minor modifications and can pass for Montefortino.
Why not? Travellers, merchants, especially spice merchants. If pepper could have been brought to Rome, why not someone who sells pepper? There are many evidences of goods exchange between India and Italy, especially in Pompei ruins. The rest of spices, statuettes of Indian/Asian gods etc
Yes, those leather bracelets are so annoying. Has nobody stopped to ask what practical purpose they'd serve? Imagine how sweaty and irritated your wrists and lower forearm would get if you're doing hard manual labor wearing a set of those.
Well, it is said that it is because in the 50s and 60s when Hollywood was making movies like Ben Hur and Cleopatra, and to be honest even in the 90s when they made Gladiator people used wristwatches and most actors had a mark in their wrist that needed to be hidden.
What does "drip" even mean în this context and what's the point of these editing and thumbnail choices? They just erode your credibility and make serious people like myself not even want to click on them. What's your target audience even?
I don't have a specific target audience, I just do what feels natural in terms of editing for any particular video. I understand that some choices that I make may not appeal to everyone, but hopefully my credibility would be determined by the contents and not by the cover. I do value the feedback, though
The question I'd like to propose is if the knowledge and documentation of the variety of roman clothing is detailed and substantial enough to judge if the attire is historically accurate (!). Aside from uniforms/armor of the Legions, how much do we actually know about every day wear, about styles, variety and fashions of a multicultural society like rome. How much is actual knowledge and how much is extrapolation, how much do we know about fabrics, colors, production (mass production) - in my experience the knowledge about Rome is constantly changing, like for example the switch from stern white marble to gaudy, bright colored kitsch, that made las Vegas more accurate than 19th century historism...
We know surprisingly enough and really very much, compared to f.ex. dark ages of early medieval times. Look up to Pompei frescoes, mosaics, a lot of remains, and descriptions in the historical sources.
On the bit about togas being off colour white. The romans did know how to bleach cloth but early in the republic they passed a law banning bleached togas when standing for office. It was considered unfair to the plebeians who couldn’t afford them.
Passing that law might be a miracle in that era.
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 Basically
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 Probably a result of the Conflict of the Orders. Unfortunately we don't know too much about that period compared to the civil wars of the late republic so it doesn't get as much attention.
Plebs - ruining fashion since 500 BC.
What a sad and pathetic example of slave morality. Rome was already full of decadence with their reforms they always made about the plebians
Cato's garment shows the benefits of historical accuracy. Because the show's designers cared about Rome's fashion, they could convey Cato's personality through his raiments. Details such as this, whether realistic or fictional, make the setting feel real.
I personally hated that the most about the show. The silly bare shoulder. He wore the proper toga like the rest.
@@matthewlaurence3121 you were supposed to, because he was a bit of a pretentious dandy irl
Today in 2023 that is a lost art.
This guy was like 30 years too old to play Cato.
Fun fact: the reason vambraces and wristguards are so popular in Hollywood depictions of Romans especially but ancient/medieval people more generally is because of watches.
Way back in ye olden days, before mobile phones, most men wore a watch to tell the time or potentially show off their wealth - including actors in the 60's, one of cinema's 'golden ages', when a lot of historical epics were made. To stop their (potentially expensive) watches being taken off and stolen, or just to let them tell the time at a moment's notice, the actors got given vambraces to hide their watches.
Though obviously far fewer people are sporting watches these days, or at least enough that they won't take them off, by this point it's now something audiences expect, because it's codified so heavily in the language of cinema.
After yoir first sentence I though that it was to hide the watches' tan line
@@RomabooRamblings It might also have been that, it's been a long time since the trivia was inserted into my brain.
I know it was because of watches though!
@@RomabooRamblings Yeah, my thought as well. Seems a lot more plausible that tan lines would be the reason than any concerns about theft.
I’ve heard the same thing about watch tan lines. Now it’s expected and we seem to be stuck with them.
I can imagine its also useful fir actors with tattoos
I always loved the little details that made it feel like a living city, like slaves in the background sweeping away flower petals after a triumph. I think that's where the show shone most, because it made the world feel like more than just a backdrop for the main characters.
I just did a rewatch and got to appreciate these details so much more!
I swear there’s an entire separate -silent- comedic series going on in the background, by Attia’s old lady slave 😂 she’s always up to something ridiculous in the shadows
@@SKILLIUSCAESARAtias head slave just being so fucked over by everyone is a great and sad detail about the sorta lives they lived
It’s a pity Rome wasn’t a 7 yr series. Super great tv 🎉
I was devastated to learn this when I first heard about the show. 2 seasons of trying to squeeze the Gallic Wars & the rise of Augustus was too much for a season with 10 episodes
@@iDeathMaximuMII i heard that the set caught fire, & that contributed to the early termination of the show
Really appreciated the accurate way roman uniforms and clothes were depicted in "HBO's Rome". I hate how, in most movies and even docudramas set in the Ancient Era, the armors Romans wear are always the same models, no matter if the movie is set during Julius Caesar's campaigns or during the invasions of Attila the Hun. For those of you who don't know, Roman armors evolved as the empire fell apart, as they began to wear a scale-covered chainmail and a different helmet (which would eventually become the medieval armor) than the classic uniform we all know. I can understand that many of these productions were low budget and had to reuse uniforms from other products about Ancient Rome (being the sword-and-sandal movies of the 60s and the Italian miniseries of the 2000s good examples of that), but there are also high-budget productions like the movie "Agora", in which the soldiers wear completely anachronistic armor, which is simply inexcusable. At least we have the BBC productions (like "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" and "Heroes and Villains: Attila") and the "Total War" games, which accurately depict roman armies during the last years of the Empire
Yeah I don’t think people realize that the classic Lorica Segmentata every associated with the Roman’s were only in use for around 2 centuries which admittedly is a long time, but not nearly as long as Rome’s existence. It also helps that it happened to be the standard Roman set of armor when Rome was at its peak.
One reason why I rarely watch ‘documentary shows’ these days. It looks fake, it looks like Hollywood clothing. There is this netflix show about caesar with some young good looking actor with a full beard played him and I just had to stop watching. It was too silly and off putting
I think they gave Pompey such resplendent clothing to visually communicate to the audience what a grand and ostentatious person he was.
That could've been it
Huh, this could give a funny nickname:
Pompey, the Pompous.
The metal cuirasse was made for the main cast, but it was considered uncomfortable by the actors and they gone with the comfy leather one instead.
That Cato wears no Tunic beneath his Toga and so has one shoulder free is also accurate because Cato liked to dress like in the early republic
As a Viking age reenactor it's hard to find media that portrays the period I'm interested in with nearly as much accuracy as Rome portrays Rome, it is nice to see when a proper effort has been made. It definitely felt like a real world to watch that show whereas shows like Vikings just can't sustain my suspension of disbelief.
Yeah it’s kinda weird. The Anglo Saxon/Viking Age is one of the worst offended time periods when it comes to costume design. Most shows have these 9th century Europeans dressed no better than cavemen from 30,000 BC. A lot of shows depict people covered in dirt and crap wearing tattered brown skins.
The tv show Vikings isn’t bad but it has issues. It used too much leather in battle scenes and the helmets for the Westseaxna were very anachronistic. Though I do love the outfits King Horik and King Harald and King Ecgbert wear when they’re not in armor. AC Valhalla is kind of the same. The Norse and Anglo Saxon NPCs are dressed very very well. But Eivor only has a few realistic looking armor sets. I wish I could dress Eivor in a colorful Anglo Saxon wrap coat with no armor, fit for a wealthy land owner during his time. That would look awesome
The crowd scenes and views of different bits of Rome were great, much better than anything in Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon
The Roman helmets seemed to be based off of the helmets used by the legionaries on Trajan's column.
That's like portraying Napoleonic soldiers in WWII uniforms
@@rymdalkis Prolly not.
3:39 *Fun fact:* The actor who plays Cato in the show, Karl Johnson, also appeared in the episode from the BBC docuseries "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" focused on the Civil War between Pompey and Julius Caesar. Although Cato appears in said episode, Johnson does not play him, being Marcellus the character played by the famous actor. It is a pity that he did not play the famous Cato again for said docuseries, to be honest
I guess it's a given because Johnson's Cato in looks alone is nothing like the real Cato. Mainly because Johnson looks like a 75 year old Cato while Cato in reality was in his mid 40's. I shall loved him as Cato though
I love Rome because it was clearly made by nerds. I know that a lot of Roman history buffs fuss a lot about Roman armor. A lot of them make a point of how TV shows and movies put all soldiers in lorica segmentata no matter the time period.
Great video!
Also: The way they cut the fabrics is well done. Almost always, Roman clothes are depicted with perfectly straight edges, like modern clothes have, this is especially true of the togas. But this is only possible with very sharp scissors or modern textile machinery. In the Rome HBO show, the clothes, including the togas, have a rough edge to them. The Romans would be cutting fabrics with small blades and shears, the cut wouldn't be perfectly clean, so this is very accurate.
Furthermore, the Roman togas aren't shown to be fluorescent white like most togas in other media, the Romans could bleach clothes, but they couldn't produce the brilliant stark whites that we can produce with modern dyes, so at best, you'd get a slightly off white colour, like a dull white.
Also, the Romans did not have press irons, so clothes, especially linen, would crease A LOT, so the HBO show correctly shows the Roman clothes to be quite creased, instead of the ironed togas we usually see on screen.
Whenever Its brought up I always find it crazy how long it took stirrups to see wide spread adoption
This was brought to you by the guild of weavers. The guild of weavers uses only the finest wool.
Trve roman drip, for trve romans
The metatron addresses the armband in modern depictions of rome in one of his videos, basically in the 90s wrist watches were popular so to cover up the tan outline on actors they would wear armbands and for some reason the trend stuck in media
The narrator's point that the show,regardless of inaccuracies, is still a better depiction of ancient Rome than others of the genre.
No expert,but I tend to agree.This series was excellent.
really great to see such in depth analyses of such an underrated show. keep up the good work.
My all time favorite show, hands down.
There's evidence that pompey liked to style himself after Alexander the great, particularly his hair. I guess it's not too much extrapolation to think that he cared a lot about his appearance, thus being more fashion forward lol. I liked it, thought it added to the portrayal.
My guess on the reason of Pompey's extravigent clothing was because of his reputation as a friend and conqueror of eastern nations, he spent so much time there he would have seen higher class fashion and might have adopted it for his non-official life
Here is some more backstage movie production stuff that explains a lot of what you see in films. The REAL reason period pieces use thick bracelets and vambraces and such is because they have to break up all of the uniform color on the arms of the actors. Especially in the old days when everyone was very caucasian. Too much of the same color oversaturates the film and really stands out on screen. It is not as bad with darker skin tones, but you still have to break up that sameness of color. The is especially true in those bedroom scenes he was talking about. Too much white skin throws the color balance off, so you have to add some bling, preferable something dark like leather. That is also the reason you don't see a great deal of short sleeve shirts, and if you do, they are often adjusted to have the arms a little longer (Arnold Schwarzenegger notwithstanding - but he always tried to keep a nice tan - his tight, short sleeve shirts made his arm muscles pop on screen)
There are two HUGE rules to being an extra on a movie set. No light greens or blues on your clothing. Those are greenscreen colors and they play hell with the software they use in post-production to make colors more crisp and "movie-like".
Also never ever never ever wear white of any kind anywhere on your clothing, especially on your shoes. White washes out with film and pixelates the hell out of digital recording. Movie sets are actually pretty dingy. The white robes Lucius was wearing in the above clips were really more the color of weak tea or light coffee on set. Actually they use tea to dye the whites. You have to look around at the entire shot to make sure there is no white in the camera angle. The camera director will kick you out for wearing white.
That's very interesting. Do you have Discord?
Thank you for mentioning budgetary constraints. I find it tedious regarding the number of people that get so up in arms about "Historically Accurate Armor" and every little detail. I've working the entertainment industry, and let me ask you this: Do you actually want a second season or not? If production spends tens of thousands of dollars on every piece of armor for dozens if not hundreds of warriors, then I can guarantee there will NOT be a second season because they went broke. Historical stuff costs A LOT of money to produce anyway because you have to build and design from scratch. Horses ain't cheap either.
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Helmets are an issue because you can't see the actor's face. On screen, that makes it incredibly difficult to follow the story even if they are otherwise adorned to a specific character with sigils or colors or banners or something. You would be surprised how quickly an audience can lose the pace of the story trying to figure out who is who. It also makes it hard to understand the dialog. People read lips and expressions more than they think they do, especially for small emotional or nuanced actions.
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I.E. - Get over yourself people. It's a movie. It's just a story, and not everyone gets Ben Hur or Avengers level pre-production funding. Folks are doing the best they can.
Well, we never got to see a close up of good Roman bread for true Romans
Another excellent video! Thank you for your hard work to help educate us! I've watched Rome several times and never noticed the eagle on the chest of the soldiers.
Love me some HBO Rome, love me some Romaboo Ramblings.
Ps: had no idea about the origin of the word candidate!
I just finished the series and was hoping someone made videos on historical accuracy. It is great to learn about the details, but I would also be interested to learn more about the historical events, the characters and what we know happened or was made up for the sake of the narrative. Hope you make more videos like this ❤
@@loona7126 hello. It's been my plan to make a series of videos on the characters, eventa and other details of each episode for the show's 20th anniversary. Looks like we think alike
@@RomabooRamblingslooking forward to it :D
Best show ever and best channel ever 👌 I wish someday we can see a video about military awards , statues, and other things of symbology.
have you watched the video about the military standards?
I had no idea stirrups were a fairly recent thing. Unless you’re riding bareback they just seem obvious.
They first came to Roman notice at the battle of Adrianople where the legions were cut to pieces by barbarian cavalry with spurs. The emperor Valens was killed,and the victorious Goths became a major power.
Leather equipment would not necessarily be preserved/discernible in the archaeological record, at first I found it difficult to imagine Caesar on campaign in leather, but it would be lighter-weight…perhaps literary sources or iconographic evidence could shed light on it’s potential existence and prevalence…
I am sure there is a substantial body of literature where this is addressed but I am not familiar with it, another great video
1:24 couldn’t the leather have disintegrated by now if it was thin/mass produced?
A great assessment- & I agree on virtually everything - I rather suspect Pompey being a little bit of a fashion-plate, is an homage to his enormous wealth, borne of his youthful adventures, & time in the East- when he made bank, being an ally of Sulla- & later on, where he was wrecking pirates & adjudicating Eastern disputes on Rome's behalf - the show referenced briefly his connection to the Ptolemaic Royal family, & intimates why Caesar would have been perceived as the underdog, not him; he'd made connections in the wealthy Eastern provinces & client-kingdoms, like Egypt- he aimed to leverage his authority, on his old stomping grounds- only problem was, he was well past his glory days...
The only thing I'd really mark *Rome* down on, costume-wise - & that is how the Ptolemaic Court is depicted; I know their excuse was 'it's showing the Roman bias/ we're seeing that "alien" world through _their_ eyes' - but honestly, that feels like a cop-out- to go with repeated stylistic cliches that are really old hat by this point - we *have* artefacts of the era- jewelry & patterns, coins, statues, & frescoes to work from- that could have given a fresh look to the time & place.
Alexandrian fashions & jewelry for the elite would largely owe more to the delicate Hellenistic (later Greek) styles, with Persian/ Eastern touches, here & there - hairstyles could have been modeled on the statues & coins, the frescoes & mosaics... but nope, just put them in things that are positively old-fashioned, if not downright archaic- or even fantastical - *_how_* does it make sense for people closer to us than the pyramids, to dress in clothes, jewels, hairstyles, & makeup some 1200 years out of date?
I had the same complaint for that migraine-inducing 'Cleopatra' _"documentary"_ on Netflix - Ancient Egyptian fashion was by no means static, but its' innovations came at a slower pace in comparison to some of their other developments, because- newsflash: pre-industrial era, clothing took **a lot** of time, effort, & resources to make- no matter what the rank involved.
*_However_* that doesn't mean they'd be wearing what Hatshepsut & Rameses II would have - Egyptian history was *_well past_* its' New Kingdom glory days, so familiar in pop-culture, hell- it was well past the Late Period, when the last of the native rulers held power...
Edit: word
Thank you so much!! Could you please do a bit on the clothing of the Egyptians in the series? I’m very curious about the wigs and blue face paint.
I think I recall, somewhere in the DVD commentaries, a discussion about how the Egyptian costumes and makeup were deliberately made outlandishly stylized - not like the Roman's outfits, which were mostly accurate if a little heightened, the Egyptians were supposed to look freakish and alien, to convey how most Romans would have seen Egyptians at the time.
@@anneboyd7811 Egypt was hellenized at that time. Actually, people would not differ so much as far as clothes are concerned, at least, the upper classes. The city of Alexandria was totally hellenized since Ptolemy, the general of Alexander the Great, established his own kingdom there some 200 years earlier prior to Cleopatra times. The freakish hairstyles apply to Egypt, but some 1500 years earlier. Producers however decided to "reinvent" Egyptian fashion to differ the Roman set from Egyptian set.
Very fun, and very fair video - thank you!
I don't have any specifics but more HBO Rome content would be great.
Ironically probably the most difficult eras to make accurate films about are the most recent times - if you were to make a movie that involved happenings of 20 years ago it would be very difficult to get things right - the models of cars on the streets for example, the style of mobile phones and computers, subtle changes in fashions and that sort of thing -that's if you want to be totally authentic!
One of my favourite aspects about Rome was how the clothing looked both time appropriate and comfortable to wear- especially in a hot and humid italy without air condition.
Besides some people wearing purple (big no no in Rome or any period pre synthesized colors) it still looks gorgeous!
I wonder if it was still necessary to hide the wrist of the actors in the 2000s, I remember that in the 90s everyone still used wristwatches and had the marks on their wrists, but I wonder if that was still the case in the middle 2000s.
I very much love how the roman legionaire are depicted. The use of accurate Lorica Hamata and keeping in formation while fighting. I will give a pass on the helmet, not the accurate Monte helm but close enough for the casual audience, though I would love to see some early gallic helmet and the Legionaire helmets should have been richly decorated with feather. The shield is the only problem I have, too small and too square in design.
If I see one more leather vanbrace in one of these productions , I am biting someone
Excellent video!
My fav is ceasars costume at his triummph. It looks so badass!
Excellent job!
Would love to see more of these HBO Rome videos, I would like to see your take on the show's depiction of the city itself.
thanks, that's an interesting suggestion
Very cool.
Would love to see you do this for other series/films too.
Thank you for pronouncing classical Latin correctly. My only 'nit pick' as you would say is that the 'ae' diphthong was almost certainly pronounced as "EE" and likely not as "AY". To know for sure we need a time machine, but most experts agree, Caesar would very likely have sounded like "KEEZAR" to our modern ears.
For the stirrups, it's interesting to know there was a legal reason they had to include them. I did notice while watching the show that they often tried to make the stirrups less visible in shots (they're there, but they're never hanging out obviously the way we usually see). The show even had some scenes where characters mount their horse by stepping on an underling's back, rather than using the stirrups. It seems like they did the best they could under the circumstances!
So interesting! What does take me out of the fantasy a bit (as someone with half their family from southern Italy) is just how Anglo most of the main characters look. But that seems to be how English language films and tv shows about Rome are mostly cast. Have you watched the series Domina? I'd love to get your take on the costumes in that.
Yeah, the arm braces are always so amnoying to look at in anything Roman related as it doesn't even look good most of the time. Aside from that, i really enjoyed the set desgin, and their costumes.
I found myself wondering about the accuracy of Niobe's clothing. There was a lot of off the shoulder, exposed arms etc. Wouldn't she have been much more modest?
And the veils for the ladies, i wondered if those were accurate
I really enjoyed the video, also love your accent!!
u need to do for one for Barbarians too :P it's like the closest show next to Hbo Rome.
Will do when the whole of season 2 is out.
@@RomabooRamblings erm its already out :P
God I love this channel, you're doing Jupiter's work mate
Loved the video, yeah the thing I noticed instantly and bothered me in this show was the arm bracelets, but indeed everything else looks really good. I love this kind of content, keep it coming!
It's "pilum" (one L), not "pillum".
I don't know about on-set safety rules... but you can ride without stirrups in some public events (best known is the Palio of Siena: no stirrups... and no saddle altogether).
Generally speaking, actors doing most main characters do look very anglo-saxon in their traits, at least to Italian eyes. At least, in this show they seem to have spent some money in having European stand-ins, while in almost all "Roman" dramas produced in northern Europe they usualy get north-African stand-ins, looking quite different from typical Italians.
The HBO series "Rome" was filmed at Cinecitta studios in Rome, so the extras were indeed Roman, whereas the principal actors were almost all British.
Maybe you have to have some license for those event, like the circus actors do
@@RomabooRamblings Well, the jockeys in the Palio are obviously professionals with huge experience and ability. I don't know if they actually need a license but surely no Contrada would hire an un-experienced jockey 'cause it'd be a racing catastrophy.
Excellent! Thank you!
Pants. But that's a nitpick I've only recently learned of.
I would love to see a video on the remains of Roman emperors. I know most are probably lost but there must be one body left buried in a monastery somewhere.
Interesting suggestion, thanks
HBO Rome was a great tv show
Is the color palette in depiction for civilian/commoners really off? Yellow and especially Blue were much available in addition to red and white, I think to remember.
HI! I've always wondered about the scene in 3:05 in Rome, Cicero's robe's edges are very rough, same as 3:35 - as if no one really cared when cutting it, however in the background of 3:05 the other senator's togas seem way neater with proper edges. In the "real" Rome, senators would have have properly cut robes right?
Thoughts on the historical accuracy of Clothing of the Gauls in the show?
The Gaullish men seem to look like medieval peasants and they also lack mustaches
I was imagining they would look like Asterix and Obelix ;p
I tried to research that topic, but can't really make a certain conclusion. There are accounts, for instance, that say that the Gauls had much better equipment than the usual "dirty barbarian" stuff from the show
@@RomabooRamblings I think they even invented the Chainmail that the Roman’s stole.
Also their works of jewelry was amazing
Edit: Not confirmed that they invented the Chainmail but they are usually credited.
@@TheLordRichard im pretty sure its the iberian tribes that are oft given credit for the invention of chainmail
@@ultra-papasmurf The Iberian tribes were a Celtic group as well, similar culture ...
What happened to the Bringer of Victory series?
Ima resume it soon
Thoughts on portrayal of Ptolemaic Egypt?
THIS VIDEO IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MILLERS GUILD. TRUE ROMAN BREAD, FOR TRUE ROMANS!
Do Domina next! Great show with great costumes
Many movies and films falsely described the clothing of the Late Roman Empire.
ROME series depicts the late Republic. Empire didn't exist yet.
Armbands weren't historical but they sure do look awesome!
Nobody should be pinning their togas. And overall I think there's a lot more color than would have been seen at the time.
At least they mostly spared us the Praetorian helmets, with that piece in the front that's not a visor, despite appearing to be on hinges. I realize they do appear on things like Trajan's column and I don't remember if those ever appeared in the series or not but they're in way too many movies/shows and every time I see them I want to gag!
How would the Romans call the Turkish dress? There were no Turks west of Takla Makan during antiquity.
Where's Takla Makan?
@@rubz1390 Asia
@@neutralfellow9736 i mean where in Asia specifically. Anatolia? Kazakhstan?
@@rubz1390 it is just above the Kunlun Mountains
@@rubz1390 If you look on the map now, the Taklamakan desert is in Western China. It's where Xinjiang province is (and yes, that is where the uighur genocide is happening)
I thought they got something Ike stirrups from the celts
Can you do one about the ancient Roman paganism and the accuracy there?
You mean the rituals that are depicted in the show?
@@RomabooRamblings yes lol
When did Romans have the "classic" metal lorica segmentata?
Sometimes during the reign of Augustus
@@RomabooRamblings So they didn't actually use those for a particularly long time?
@@rubz1390 at least couple of centuries
Surprised you didn't catch the Draco standards at 8:16
yeah, it's also anachronistic
Getting too into it, man. Pretty soon you'll be reviewing how accurate the uhh... "roman" characters are in the Fate series lmao
There are Roman characters? Now I have to watch it
@@RomabooRamblings Oh no, what have I done?! Save yourself lmao
Can u do one on Netflix's Barbarians?
Going to watch it this week. Would make a vid after the whole of season 2 is out.
Oooo do Spartacus!!
It might just be me but your video audio levels seem quite a bit lower than other channels i'm used to
I don't have the best recording environment. Audio is something I struggle with quite a lot
@@RomabooRamblings I wouldn't worry about it too much, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a mixing problem you didn't know about. All I have to do is turn up my volume a bit and its fine.
So basically Cato was an ancient social justice warrior?
Isn't Cato more like Tucker Carlson?
He's like the arch conservative.
Let's be honest togas are bad ass.
Imagine wearing wool with no underwear. Ow.
Going to have to disagree on the "8/10" for the uniforms in this series. While the series itself was pretty good as far as Hollywood is concerned, the uniforms and their presentation are all wrong. I'd give it a "3" or a "5" for authenticity. On the other hand, the civilian attire was much better and truer to the historical record.
Which aspect of the uniform did you think was the least authentic? I may have been a bit too lenient with the uniform, because "finally, some chainmail", but nothing to me was super egregious. A lot of things just lacked a couple of minor changes, like the helmets. At worst, some things are anachronistic by a couple of decades.
Nice video as allways! but I totally disagreed with the armor part, they don't look as Roman late republican Legion, the helmet is totally diferent to the montefortino, and the SHIELD?! Even as a imperial stucum is very bad, also centurión crest is too late for that era, I personally give them a 4/10, the only show that make decent armor at the moment is Barbarian un Netflix, but Is just my opinion, alike, great video!
Thanks. I'm very lenient, because they actually used mail armor, lol. I can't say that the helmet is totally different, with a few minor modifications and can pass for Montefortino.
@@RomabooRamblings I think the helmet is more like a Coolus helmet
"stucum"? I suppose you meant "scutum".
Cato beat Johnny Cash to it by two millenia. I love history.
Would there really have been indians in rome? persians I could understand but India? would have thought that rather too remote.
Why not? Travellers, merchants, especially spice merchants. If pepper could have been brought to Rome, why not someone who sells pepper? There are many evidences of goods exchange between India and Italy, especially in Pompei ruins. The rest of spices, statuettes of Indian/Asian gods etc
Yes, those leather bracelets are so annoying. Has nobody stopped to ask what practical purpose they'd serve? Imagine how sweaty and irritated your wrists and lower forearm would get if you're doing hard manual labor wearing a set of those.
Apparently they used to have them on set to hide the tan lines from wrist watches
@@RomabooRamblings That's silly. Everyone knows Romans used pocket watches.
Candidate….. 🤯🤯🤯
Idk if anyone other than me noticed this but almost every parrot in the show is a new world parrot.
Excellent video!
Hope someone more knowledgeable in female roman fashion shows up to give their thumbs up or thumbs down
I would love to see one about shows with inaccurate costumes
I would like to know who in early Hollywood decided to use armbands to depict Romans.
Well, it is said that it is because in the 50s and 60s when Hollywood was making movies like Ben Hur and Cleopatra, and to be honest even in the 90s when they made Gladiator people used wristwatches and most actors had a mark in their wrist that needed to be hidden.
🤠👍🏿
Leather armor is such utter garbage
All that attention to detail only to have a bunch of parrots from America and Australia for no reason.
HBO Rome...Gone far too soon.
What does "drip" even mean în this context and what's the point of these editing and thumbnail choices? They just erode your credibility and make serious people like myself not even want to click on them. What's your target audience even?
I don't have a specific target audience, I just do what feels natural in terms of editing for any particular video. I understand that some choices that I make may not appeal to everyone, but hopefully my credibility would be determined by the contents and not by the cover.
I do value the feedback, though
Didn't say "drip" at least once in the video
Disliked
The question I'd like to propose is if the knowledge and documentation of the variety of roman clothing is detailed and substantial enough to judge if the attire is historically accurate (!). Aside from uniforms/armor of the Legions, how much do we actually know about every day wear, about styles, variety and fashions of a multicultural society like rome. How much is actual knowledge and how much is extrapolation, how much do we know about fabrics, colors, production (mass production) - in my experience the knowledge about Rome is constantly changing, like for example the switch from stern white marble to gaudy, bright colored kitsch, that made las Vegas more accurate than 19th century historism...
We know surprisingly enough and really very much, compared to f.ex. dark ages of early medieval times. Look up to Pompei frescoes, mosaics, a lot of remains, and descriptions in the historical sources.